REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

It could have been worse...without the guns.

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Saturday, December 22, 2012 15:40
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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:49 AM

HERO


On May 18, 1927, a part-time caretaker at a school in Bath, Michigan, killed 45 people, including 38 children, when he blew up a school and then killed himself, along with two first responders at the scene. Another 58 people were wounded.

The 38 children were in grades three through six.

H


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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:03 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Adam Lanza wasn't connected to the school, so he didn't have the unique opportunity to cause devastation that this man had.

So it could have been worse... but it likely would've been much better. See my explanation in your other thread (don't really know why you started another one).

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:09 AM

STORYMARK


So, basically:

"Sure, sure, dozens of school shootings done with guns... but hey, look, look over THERE - a single case from nearly a centruy ago. That like, proves that guns aren't an issue and stuff!!!"




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So "Hero" here has been reduced in his desperation to reposting PN rants.


Call it kismet. "Hero" and PN, one and the same, united at last. Congrats, dipwad - you're now every bit at batshit as that guy you hate so much!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:27 AM

JONGSSTRAW


At least PN's thread had pictures. Nevertheless, I think Hero ought to send his sincere heartfelt sentiment of "it could have been worse" on condolence cards to the grieving parents in Newtown.


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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:32 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I think Hero ought to send
his sincere heartfelt sentiment of "it could have been worse" on condolence cards to the grieving parents in Newtown.


Christmas morning will be so sad for a bunch of families over there... sad like it's hard for many of us here to imagine.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:44 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Bombs don't kill people, people kil people.

A bomb is just a tool.

Trying to take away people's bombs, is taking away their FREEDOM.

The 2nd Amendment CLEARLY says its the right of the people to bear arms, which means armaments which includes BOMBS.

You shouldn't focus on the means of killing, but rather the mental health issues of the bomber.


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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Best way to stop a bad man w/ a gun is to have a good man ( or woman ) with a gun.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:58 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Best way to stop a bad man w/ a gun is to have a good man ( or woman ) with a gun.


The good guys only come when the horror is over. Perhaps when the moon is in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligns with Mars, a scenario akin to what you fantasize about might occur. Maybe there will be a unicorn to ride in on.


2nd Amendment's true intent was lost forever because the Federal printing press operator, Harry Hyman, accidentally added the word 'and'. Just an honest mistake.....was supposed to be "the right to keep bear arms."

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:17 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Best way to stop a bad man w/ a gun is to have a good man ( or woman ) with a gun.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Which is why the woman with a gun (who lived next door to an armed cop) is dead.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:18 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER:
Bombs don't kill people, people kil people.

A bomb is just a tool.

Trying to take away people's bombs, is taking away their FREEDOM.

The 2nd Amendment CLEARLY says its the right of the people to bear arms, which means armaments which includes BOMBS.

You shouldn't focus on the means of killing, but rather the mental health issues of the bomber.




A point that the usual suspects will continue to ignore as they parrot the same BS over and over.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:28 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Best way to stop a bad man w/ a gun is to have a good man ( or woman ) with a gun.


Best way to stop a bad man with a gun is to pry it from his cold unconscious hand. But you need skillz for that, and it takes training & discipline, both of which I conjure you are too lazy for, AU. Unarmed combat should be required for you to begin training in armed combat.
But then, you may end up not feeling the need for a gat....

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Jongs - I submit that 1 gun be kept in the principal's office, and another,on or near a random teacher's person. Both should be licensed to carry, trained to use, and have said weapons locked but ready to use, at a moment's notice.

Storybook - So, you're saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own guns? See, if I'D had said that, I'd be called a male chauvinist pig. Or worse.

But we don't know if she had those guns locked, did she ? Or why she had guns accessible to a violent young man ( did she fear for HER life ? ) And how many guns did the killer buy ? Or did he just steal them from his mom, and use them to commit these crimes anyways ? So really, what would a gun ban have done ? Next to nothing, it seems, in this case.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Best way to stop a bad man w/ a gun is to have a good man ( or woman ) with a gun.


Best way to stop a bad man with a gun is to pry it from his cold unconscious hand. But you need skillz for that, and it takes training & discipline, both of which I conjure you are too lazy for, AU. Unarmed combat should be required for you to begin training in armed combat.
But then, you may end up not feeling the need for a gat....



" a gat... " ? Gato ? I need a cat ? Huh???


What the hell are you even rambling on about, Chrissy ? So, in YOUR opinion, everyone who ISN'T a deadly Ninja assassin is " too lazy " ?

Oy!

I fully agree, that if you own a gun,or guns, you should be trained to use them. Duh, no brainer. Hello NRA ??

IndianaJonesshootsyouasyouperformsillyNinjamovesisall -

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:50 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Storybook - So, you're saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own guns? See, if I'D had said that, I'd be called a male chauvinist pig. Or worse.



Damn, you are desperate.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Damn, you are desperate.




Just trying to relate to your level of thinking.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:52 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongs - I submit that 1 gun be kept in the principal's office, and another,on or near a random teacher's person. Both should be licensed to carry, trained to use, and have said weapons locked but ready to use, at a moment's notice.

Storybook - So, you're saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own guns? See, if I'D had said that, I'd be called a male chauvinist pig. Or worse.

But we don't know if she had those guns locked, did she ? Or why she had guns accessible to a violent young man ( did she fear for HER life ? ) And how many guns did the killer buy ? Or did he just steal them from his mom, and use them to commit these crimes anyways ? So really, what would a gun ban have done ? Next to nothing, it seems, in this case.



If we had a gun ban his mother would not have had a gun to steal.

Also your idea about putting more guns in schools is about as stupid as you can get. This is real life, not the movies.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


nickerson - in REAL life, folks w/ guns have stopped mad killers like this lunatic more times than you know.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:03 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
"Sure, sure, dozens of school shootings done with guns... but hey, look, look over THERE - a single case from nearly a centruy ago. That like, proves that guns aren't an issue and stuff!!!"


Not one gun was fired when that fella blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Gas + crap = boom!


H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:05 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongs - I submit that 1 gun be kept in the principal's office, and another,on or near a random teacher's person. Both should be licensed to carry, trained to use, and have said weapons locked but ready to use, at a moment's notice.

Storybook - So, you're saying that women shouldn't be allowed to own guns? See, if I'D had said that, I'd be called a male chauvinist pig. Or worse.

But we don't know if she had those guns locked, did she ? Or why she had guns accessible to a violent young man ( did she fear for HER life ? ) And how many guns did the killer buy ? Or did he just steal them from his mom, and use them to commit these crimes anyways ? So really, what would a gun ban have done ? Next to nothing, it seems, in this case.


I think it'd be a mistake to make educators be the ones responsible for armed security. I posted the other day that in Florida most schools have armed security. I suggested that ALL schools in Ameirca follow suit. Some people here called that a "prison." I know it works pretty well, although our property taxes are high to cover the expense.

I also believe that what happedned in CT. was another failure of local law enforcement. The police there knew this kid. They knew him to be a strange and weird loner. He would stand on a street corner and stare passerbys down. You know, that 100 yard blank stare, and sometimes he would also verbally confront some people. So why didn't the police, in a town with no crime giving them anything else to do, why didn't these police bring this kid in for questioning. Questions about his home life and activities? Why didn't they know his mother had guns and she was taking him to the shooting range often? What is a 20 year-old doing if he's not working or going to college? All the warning signs were pretty clear.



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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:07 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Also your idea about putting more guns in schools is about as stupid as you can get. This is real life, not the movies.


True. Friday's headline: "Lone gunman kills 27 people."

But could have been: "Armed man shot while trying to enter local elementary school."

Funny...one of those headlines would never get national attention.

If a gun is used to prevent crime, its not much of a story, is rarely fully reported...but is a much more common outcome.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:15 PM

ARLO

-.-. ..- -- / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- . / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - .- . / . .-. .- - --..-- / - ..- -- / ... --- .-.. .. / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- ... / .... .- -... . ..- -. -


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
nickerson - in REAL life, folks w/ guns have stopped mad killers like this lunatic more times than you know.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Perhaps more than we all ... know. I'm not seeing such articles being presented, currently, that doesn't involve ... um ... a what if setting. Granted, there's probably a good reason for that. One cannot surmise if killing a person that drew a weapon in public actually prevented a mass slaughter. It may have prevented a burglary or a murder (or it may have resulted in the wounding or death of a plain clothed police officer who had yet to give full identification and who saw the real armed assailant which was out of the visual parameters of the 'well meaning' armed citizen that just shot him). It may have prevented a public spectacle suicide.

It surely would give the person who shot the potential assailant (if not a plain clothed officer) an excuse to rationalize their use of the gun (legally carried or not) ... and may well have satiated a desire of their own.

Guess that puts us back to .... not ever knowing.

-- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .

Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:20 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I think it'd be a mistake to make educators be the ones responsible for armed security.


Its not about security...its about giving them a fighting chance. In police and military terms its called hardening the target.

Its very simple. We've made laws that guarrantee to the criminal that if they take a gun to the school for whatever reason...murder, robbery, whatever...they are SAFE and in total control. A gun free zone is a free crime zone.

As someone pointed out, this crazy fella committed 17 crimes before he fired the first shot.
Quote:


I also believe that what happedned in CT. was another failure of local law enforcement. The police there knew this kid. They knew him to be a strange and weird loner. He would stand on a street corner and stare passerbys down. You know, that 100 yard blank stare, and sometimes he would also verbally confront some people. So why didn't the police, in a town with no crime giving them anything else to do, why didn't these police bring this kid in for questioning. Questions about his home life and activities? Why didn't they know his mother had guns and she was taking him to the shooting range often? What is a 20 year-old doing if he's not working or going to college? All the warning signs were pretty clear.


Questioning? For what? And suppose he says 'no thanks, not interested.

"Excuse me son, you've committed no crime and have no record and we have no evidence or suspicion you are going to commit a crime...your under arrest!"

Yeah, that works. There's room in Gitmo, lets just lock him away. Hey, nobody is using those old Jap internment camps...honostly, some of you guys are off the deep end here.

Oh, and your description...it could describe a variety of famous authors, poets, filmakers, scientists, not to mention many poor people, illegals and so on. Round them up, says you, we have ways to make them talk...

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:24 PM

ARLO

-.-. ..- -- / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- . / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - .- . / . .-. .- - --..-- / - ..- -- / ... --- .-.. .. / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- ... / .... .- -... . ..- -. -


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
"Sure, sure, dozens of school shootings done with guns... but hey, look, look over THERE - a single case from nearly a centruy ago. That like, proves that guns aren't an issue and stuff!!!"


Not one gun was fired when that fella blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Gas + crap = boom!



I'm not sure this makes for effective rationale supporting assault weapons and high magazine capacity concealable large caliber handguns as an inherent right for one and all. Have you been to the Oklahoma City memorial? McVeigh took out several children (yes, every life taken, child or adult, was innocent) in that, as well, all in the name of 'liberty.' Alas, when one's liberty threatens/takes others lives then the message doesn't bring with it a sympathetic reaction from me.

-- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .

Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


ARLO,

Guess ya never heard of the Pearl, MS shootings, have ya?

Quote:

The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.

Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing a trench coat, to hide his rifle when he entered the school, Woodham fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car...



And here's the really important part ...

Quote:

He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his truck and ordered the gunman to the ground.[1][2][3][4][5][6]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting#Details

Yeah. It only happens in the movies.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:27 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by ARLO:
Guess that puts us back to .... not ever knowing.


Actually we do know. We know 27 people died with no chance of defending themselves or others.

Even a small chance is better then NO chance. So guns in the hands of responsible adults could have made a difference. Its a 'could' a mere possibility.

The certainty your looking for is that the lack of guns DID result in those deaths...they happened, for certain...that is what we know.

What you don't understand is that we're looking for the uncertainty, the mere possibility of survival that did not exist last Friday morning.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:32 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
nickerson - in REAL life, folks w/ guns have stopped mad killers like this lunatic more times than you know.



...but not enough to make them the norm or anything more than very rare events.

Plus gun control regulations would not stop this from happening! I know it is hard but we are not talking about taking all guns away.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:33 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

in REAL life, folks w/ guns have stopped mad killers like this lunatic more times than you know.

Wanna bet more times than HE knows either? Like he doesn't know if it's happened just a few times, or more than that? How about some facts to back that statement up?

As to giving teachers guns, he got that from right-wing talk radio or FauxNews or something, they're the ones SERIOUSLY proposing this:
Quote:

Oklahoma legislator says teachers need option to carry guns at school

“The idea is let's take a readily available resource — people that have buy-in, they care about kids — and let's train them to the level of police officers and put them back in their schools,” McCullough said. “I fear an accident or someone getting a gun away from a trained professional much less than I fear someone coming on campus and wreaking the kind of havoc that was done last week.”

Senate President Pro Tem Brian Bingman, R-Sapulpa, said the events on Friday hit everyone hard.

“I don't want to politicize anything,” Bingman said, “but I think at some point, rational minds need to sit down and ensure you have safe schools.”

Sen. Ralph Shortey, R-Oklahoma City, took the proposed legislation a step further and said he'd allow any teacher or principal with an open-carry permit to bring a firearm to school. http://newsok.com/oklahoma-legislator-says-teachers-need-option-to-car
ry-guns-at-school/article/3738396
]
Republicans all, of course. As to those they want to arm:
Quote:

Several educators opposed McCullough's idea. Superintendents from the state's two largest school districts — Oklahoma City and Tulsa — expressed concern about the idea.

“I am not interested in arming teachers and administrators with weapons in our school district,” Oklahoma City Superintendent Karl Springer said. “It would make more sense if funding could be made available to increase law enforcement presence.”

Tulsa Public Schools has its own 23-member police force, Superintendent Keith Ballard said. On-campus law enforcement has dramatically reduced crime. He wouldn't expect the same result from allowing teachers to have guns.

“Arming teachers and principals is not the answer if we are looking to make schools safe,” he said. “Ultimately, the best defense is open communication.”

Chad Coomer, director of curriculum for Glenpool Public Schools, said he and the school resource officer spent Monday doing walk-throughs of all the district schools, looking for possible security improvements.

One of the best defenses, he said, is strong relationships among students, staff and families.

“Talk about it,” he said. “That's been our response. ... If you hear something, if you see something, share it. Talk about it.”

Several educators said Monday they aren't interested.

“I could not be in more opposition to that idea,” Sapulpa Superintendent Kevin Burr said. “Schools are not a place where we should be arming combatants. ...

“Our job as educators is to try to create an educational environment and try to teach students how to love one another and try to get along with one another so these kinds of tragedies that occurred in Connecticut never happen again. That's our job. Our job's not to try to kill an intruder.”

The idea is unsafe, said Ed Allen, president of the Oklahoma City American Federation of Teachers.

“I don't think the answer to our gun problem is add more guns into the equation,” Allen said. “I don't think he probably really understands how schools operate. Schools can be emotional places at times. Kids can get emotional. Teachers can get emotional. Parents come in emotional. Throw weapons into that mix, and it can be dangerous.”

Learning how to respond to active shooter situations is a complex and intensive part of law enforcement training, said Stan Florence, director of the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation.

Members of the public armed with guns are not only less effective in responding to these types of situations, but there is a chance they could make the problem worse.

“It's hard enough when you're trained to go into an active shooting situation to make sure the rounds you fire go where they're intended to,” Florence said. “You'd just have to really consider that if you're someone carrying a weapon, especially in a setting where there's a lot of innocent bystanders.”Same


Yeah, let's arm the teachers. That would make for some REAL fun!

Texas, of course, is on the forefront of such "intelligent" thinking:
Quote:

Texas school’s ‘Guardian Plan’ allows teachers to have guns.

In 2007, a school district in Harrold, Texas, made a controversial decision. It allowed teachers to carry concealed weapons on school grounds to protect students against potential shooters.Excerpts from http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/texas-school-guardian-plan-allows-
teachers-guns-174238129.html


Let's hope we don't hear about a student getting ahold of a teacher's gun, or a teacher accidentally shooting some kid, as a result of all this.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:35 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car...



And here's the really important part ...

Quote:

He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his truck and ordered the gunman to the ground.


So stopped after he was done...

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



No. Stopped the shooter from going anywhere else and doing more of the same.

Gun free zones do nothing but tell the bad folks that there won't be any way for those in said zones to defend themselves.

Hell, it should be a crime to put our kids in such zones , in the first place.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:40 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car...



And here's the really important part ...

Quote:

He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his truck and ordered the gunman to the ground.


So stopped after he was done...

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359



Exactly. Rappy's best case study backs up the anti-gun position that the good guys arrive on the scene far too late.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:42 PM

ARLO

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Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
ARLO,

Guess ya never heard of the Pearl, MS shootings, have ya?

Quote:

The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.

Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing a trench coat, to hide his rifle when he entered the school, Woodham fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before attempting to leave in his mother's car...



And here's the really important part ...

Quote:

He was subdued by assistant principal Joel Myrick, who pulled a .45-cal. pistol from his truck and ordered the gunman to the ground.[1][2][3][4][5][6]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting#Details

Yeah. It only happens in the movies.




Yes, this example was mentioned already on this forum.

1) He wasn't prevented entry, shooting, killing and wounding and exit from the school.

2) How many times are you presuming an OK Corral scenario actually prevented a mass shooting?

3) If the gunman had been pulled over should he have been allowed to continue on to the school without arrest since his second amendment rights made the only offense committed running a stop sign?

Damn ... I've been pulled into the 'What if, so that proves it' trap. ;0)

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Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


KPO - nope. You're wrong. See above.

A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:45 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

True. Friday's headline: "Lone gunman kills 27 people."

But could have been: "Armed man shot while trying to enter local elementary school."


Just to be clear. Do these school guards have assault rifles as well, or are we to leave them outgunned by the psychos who turn up with them?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:53 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Look out Arlo...you'll be pulled into more than THAT if you try to communicate with Raptor. He's our version of the OB right-wingers, tho' not quite as ugly as they could get, he's JUST as brainwashed and only gets his "news" from right-wing radio and FauxNews. So be forewarned; he's just the kind who'll trap you into back-and-forth idiocy, just like I used to get caught up in over there. Just so long as you never, never expect to get through to him with any kind of logic or reason when it comes to politics. Strangely, on virtually every other subject, he's a pretty nice guy. Go figure.

Said proper hi to you in the other thread, it's really NEAT to see you here!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:55 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I think it'd be a mistake to make educators be the ones responsible for armed security.


Its not about security...its about giving them a fighting chance. In police and military terms its called hardening the target.

Its very simple. We've made laws that guarrantee to the criminal that if they take a gun to the school for whatever reason...murder, robbery, whatever...they are SAFE and in total control. A gun free zone is a free crime zone.

As someone pointed out, this crazy fella committed 17 crimes before he fired the first shot.
Quote:


I also believe that what happedned in CT. was another failure of local law enforcement. The police there knew this kid. They knew him to be a strange and weird loner. He would stand on a street corner and stare passerbys down. You know, that 100 yard blank stare, and sometimes he would also verbally confront some people. So why didn't the police, in a town with no crime giving them anything else to do, why didn't these police bring this kid in for questioning. Questions about his home life and activities? Why didn't they know his mother had guns and she was taking him to the shooting range often? What is a 20 year-old doing if he's not working or going to college? All the warning signs were pretty clear.


Questioning? For what? And suppose he says 'no thanks, not interested.

"Excuse me son, you've committed no crime and have no record and we have no evidence or suspicion you are going to commit a crime...your under arrest!"

Yeah, that works. There's room in Gitmo, lets just lock him away. Hey, nobody is using those old Jap internment camps...honostly, some of you guys are off the deep end here.

Oh, and your description...it could describe a variety of famous authors, poets, filmakers, scientists, not to mention many poor people, illegals and so on. Round them up, says you, we have ways to make them talk...

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012


It's long past time for the authorities in this country to "ensure the domestic tranquility" that we as a people are promised in the Constitution. And I won't be sorry if some feelings get hurt along the way. You don't like my profiling so you ask about poets, filmakers, etc...they're working. They're not standing on corners speaking in tongues and threatening the citizenry. I wouldn't mind, however, if all the smarmy and scummy defense lawyers were sent to Gitmo, Devil's Island, or even Newark. Put that in your pipe as you tell us how this massacre of schoolchildren could have been worse.








"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:55 PM

ARLO

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Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
KPO - nope. You're wrong. See above.

A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period.




You misspelled 'could.' And, quite honestly, ~A~ registered gun owner would have to be an accomplished gun-slinger/SWAT or SpecFor trained professional to even come close to guaranteeing that his or her presence on the scene will make them the hero of the day and not just another casualty that provided the shooter another loaded weapon, when it comes to a shooter rampaging the halls with weapons drawn and pointed. As mentioned by others on the forum, handguns in the vicinity of school children (or even other adults in a public building) would require being secured and unloaded (making it even harder to get the drop on the gunman who decided to enter ~your~ classroom first.

The one lone example given, so far, involving someone stopping the gunman with their own registered weapon also involved leaving the school to go to the parking lot and retrieve a weapon.

I believe 'period' (and exclamation point, for that matter) is the wrong punctuation.

-- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .

Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:56 PM

ARLO

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Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Said proper hi to you in the other thread, it's really NEAT to see you here!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.



Well hi there, Niki.

-- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .

Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:04 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

KPO - nope. You're wrong. See above.

A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period.


'I'm right, you're wrong, ludicrous pronouncement, conversation over'. I'm just curious, do you score points in your own head when you do this?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:06 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Hi Arlo, welcome.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


ARLO

Zero examples, one example, two examples... so tired of this disingenuous crap from the Left. Doesn't matter what I say, you're so dogmatically blinded to believe what you want, that no level of discourse is worth my time.

A gun ban wouldn't have done a damn thing from keeping this nut job from doing what he did, but we'll still hear all about banning guns , all the same.

Just like taxing the rich, which won't do 1 damn thing to ebb the tide of massive over spending, which is by far the biggest problem we have w/ the budget deficit. Still, tax the rich, tax the rich, tax the rich... the parrots on the Left have made up their mind, and not a damn thing in the world will get them to see reason or logic.

Yeah, welcome from where ever you came. And follow Niki's lead, in thinking that anyone who believes in freedom and individual rights is " brain washed' by FOX News.



"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

KPO - nope. You're wrong. See above.

A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period.


'I'm right, you're wrong, ludicrous pronouncement, conversation over'. I'm just curious, do you score points in your own head when you do this?

It's not personal. It's just war.



Score points, take home the trophy and bang the prom queen. Hell yeah!

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 1:20 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Look out Arlo...you'll be pulled into more than THAT if you try to communicate with Raptor. He's our version of the OB right-wingers, tho' not quite as ugly as they could get, he's JUST as brainwashed and only gets his "news" from right-wing radio and FauxNews. So be forewarned


Whew! Too close! Thankfully Niki has jumped in to save the day, bravely warning Arlo about the grave threat from AuRaptor and Fox News. Good going girl! We wouldn't want anyone to not be as perpetually fixated on them as you are.





"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:02 PM

ARLO

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Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
ARLO

Zero examples, one example, two examples... so tired of this disingenuous crap from the Left. Doesn't matter what I say, you're so dogmatically blinded to believe what you want, that no level of discourse is worth my time.



I'm glad to see that you at least put the qualifier 'from the left' for you certainly don't seem tired if such comes from the 'right.' And if it makes you feel better to believe that others are 'dogmatically blinded' if they disagree with you (or you find it easier than presenting a valid argument rather than one liner absolutes with a 'period' to show you have nothing more, really) then use such as a comfort blanket but there's no need to tell me that's how you cope. =0)

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:05 PM

ARLO

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Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Whew! Too close! Thankfully Niki has jumped in to save the day, bravely warning Arlo about the grave threat from AuRaptor and Fox News. Good going girl! We wouldn't want anyone to not be as perpetually fixated on them as you are.




Now now ....

=0)

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Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Sometime one liner absolutes are all that are called for. Why waste precious time fussing over mindless minutia, and instead just get right to the point?

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:39 PM

ARLO

-.-. ..- -- / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- . / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - .- . / . .-. .- - --..-- / - ..- -- / ... --- .-.. .. / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- ... / .... .- -... . ..- -. -


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Sometime one liner absolutes are all that are called for. Why waste precious time fussing over mindless minutia, and instead just get right to the point?




And sometimes they aren't and are just a sign of not having a rational or valid argument. As such, they don't stand up to the challenge, when challenged (and often the author may still continue to feign a 'point').

Feel free to stop 'wasting your time' any second now.

Period. (heh) ;0)

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Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:44 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
A registered gun owner would have stopped or limited just about every mass killing. Period.


If only Adam Lanza's mom had been a registered gun owner, she would have stopped this whole thing... Oh wait.

You fucking moron.

WTF is with the right wing? Reps have spent the last several years hating on teachers as lazy leeches who make way too much money and don't do a good enough job, and suddenly they want to give teachers guns? They don't want to pay teachers a wildly outrageous salary of maybe 40-50K/year to teach addition and grammar, but have no problem arming them in the presence of children?

right wing = insane

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:49 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Look out Arlo...you'll be pulled into more than THAT if you try to communicate with Raptor. He's our version of the OB right-wingers, tho' not quite as ugly as they could get, he's JUST as brainwashed and only gets his "news" from right-wing radio and FauxNews. So be forewarned


Whew! Too close! Thankfully Niki has jumped in to save the day, bravely warning Arlo about the grave threat from AuRaptor and Fox News. Good going girl! We wouldn't want anyone to not be as perpetually fixated on them as you are.


"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin



Have you noticed that when Niki starts a thread, the first reply is almost always Rappy with some Faux one-liner? Go look through the board. It's so clear who's fixated on who here.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 2:54 PM

ARLO

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Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Hi Arlo, welcome.

It's not personal. It's just war.



Bad of me for not acknowledging earlier.

Thanks. Glad to be here.

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Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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