REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Gun debate gains traction as some lawmakers say it’s time to act

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:08
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Monday, December 17, 2012 7:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Lawmakers tend to stay quiet in the immediate aftermath of mass shootings, hoping to avoid attempts to politicize such tragedy.

But two days after the attack that took the lives of 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school, lawmakers were eager to take on the gun debate Sunday - with many saying a tipping point had finally been reached to pass stricter laws.

In Congress, multiple gun control bills have been introduced in recent years, but not a single one has advanced to a floor vote.

Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California said Sunday the president will soon have legislation "to lead on," announcing she will introduce a bill next month to place a ban on assault weapons.

"The purpose of this bill is to get...'weapons of war' off the street of our cities," Feinstein said on NBC's "Meet the Press."

The senator added she'll introduce the bill when Congress reconvenes in January and the same legislation will also be proposed in the House of Representatives. It's modeled after the original assault-weapons ban that Feinstein helped champion in 1994.

"We're crafting this one. It's being done with care. It'll be ready on the first day," she said, adding that she'll soon announce the House authors.

Fellow Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer, who worked on the House version of the assault weapons ban in 1994, said Washington has been "gridlocked" over the issue because "you have both sides off in a corner."

The New York senator said if pro-gun-control lawmakers can admit "there is a constitutional right to bear arms" and if anti-gun-control lawmakers can admit that "every amendment should have some balance and some limitation," then both sides can meet in the middle.

"Maybe we can make some real progress instead of each side being off in their corner, one side saying ban guns, get rid of guns, and the other side saying don't you touch anything about guns," Schumer said.

Connecticut has some of the strictest assault-weapons laws in the country, but Gov. Dan Malloy said Sunday that the lack of similar laws at the federal level makes it difficult to keep such weapons out of the state.

He said manufacturers can use "descriptive terms to try to get around the limitations that are built into our statutes" and added many guns found in the state had been tracked from gun shows in other parts of the country.

"One can only hope that we'll find a way to limit these weapons that really only have one purpose," Malloy, a Democrat, said on CNN's "State of the Union."

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who's long called for more action on gun laws, said Sunday "We kill people in schools. We kill them in hospitals. We kill them in religious organizations. We kill them when they're young. We kill them when they're old. And we've just got to stop this."

He's not the only one calling on the White House to act. More than 126,000 people have signed a petition since Friday asking for Obama "to produce legislation that limits access to guns."

The White House is required to respond after 25,000 signatures, and so far, the newly created web document has more signatories than any of the 154 petitions listed on the White House's website.

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert said the deadly Connecticut school shooting could have been halted sooner if staff at the school had been equipped with guns.

"I wish to God (the principal) had had an M4 in her office, locked up, so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out … and takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids," the Republican from Texas said on "Fox News Sunday."

Another Republican, former Education Secretary William Bennett, made a similar argument, saying the political debate should be put on hold while emotions are still high. Bennett also agreed with the idea that schools should have a gun.

Others also emphasized a need to boost mental health programs in the country. Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper of Colorado, who was intimately involved in the aftermath of the Aurora movie theater shooting, said Colorado has spent almost $20 million in new programs to support those dealing with mental illness.

"That's something we can do immediately without getting into some of the battles of gun legalization or restricting access to guns," he said on CNN, though acknowledging some gun laws need to be tweaked.

In particular, he said the debate should focus on access to high-capacity magazines. His support for tougher laws in the state marks a change in policy for the governor, who earlier this year said stricter gun laws would not have helped.

Sen.-elect Chris Murphy of Connecticut said Americans should not expect the newly resurfaced debate to go away anytime soon.

"Frankly the tipping point should have happened a long time ago, but if this is the tipping point, then we're going to go down to Washington and prompt a conversation that's long overdue," Murphy said. Excerpts from http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/16/gun-debate-gains-tract
ion-as-some-lawmakers-say-its-time-to-act/?hpt=hp_t2
]
For me, the idea of principals or others having guns at school is absurd; they would have to be carefully locked up to ensure kids didn't get to them, there's a question as to how fast they could be gotten to and how effective a principal or others could be in confronting the gunman. This one shot himself in the head after only a short time of firing, and most mass murderers DO shoot themselves after a short time of shooting. To me that's just more of the usual argument that "if everyone had a gun..."

I find it strange that they refer to people in Congress wanting to eliminate guns entirely. Anyone who thinks that way is deluding themselves, in my opinion, and I'd like to know how many of those people there actually are. As far as I know, there are only two common-sense stances on this: Those of us who would like SOME limits on semi-automatic weapons, high-capacity magazines, enforcement of current gun laws, and background checks (oh, and eliminating the gun-show loophole); and those who want NO limit on ANY gun, anytime, anywhere. To keep saying it's all about those who want NO guns and those who want guns is absurd; anyone who thinks we can eliminate guns in this country is deluded. It's not all-or-nothing on both sides, it's "all or moderation", yet people keep saying all their guns are in danger of being taken away. It's not possible, period.

I was surprised to hear Bloomberg say last night that New York has one of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths of any metropolitan area in the country, third only to Boston and Hartford, Conn. I looked it up, and he's right; not only that, but when it comes to central cities specifically, New York is the lowest next to only San Jose. It also has THE lowest rate of gun-related suicides by metro, as well as the lowest by central city. ( http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/12/geography-us-gu
n-violence/4171/
) Given Bloomberg's anti-gun views, New York's stringent gun laws, and the vast number of people crammed into New York City, for me it goes a ways toward putting the lie to the idea that "gun laws don't stop" gun-related deaths.

I don't want to see guns eliminated in America; after thinking about it, I wouldn't want it even if it were possible. I'd just like to see some common-sense limitations. For the vast majority of thinking people, the idea of eliminating all guns in America is just laughable. I wish it were possible to discuss THAT, rather than pro-gun people constantly saying it's "all or nothing".

I hope some legislation gets passed--I'm not holding my breath, but I can hope--to do something about the availability of semi-automatic weapons and high-volume magazines. More would be better, especially closing the loophole on gun-show sales and better enforcement, but at the very least, I'd like to try minimizing the ability of unstable people committing mass murders.


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Monday, December 17, 2012 9:00 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Obama's Dept of Homeland Security buys 1.5-Billion bullets, moves HQ to loonybin
http://www.prisonplanet.com/dhs-to-purchase-another-750-million-rounds
-of-ammo.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/business/08homeland.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elizabeths_Hospital

Pentagon report: Obama orders US military to massacre Darlington SC 'just like Falluja Iraq' in Civil War of 2016
http://dragonaters.blogspot.com/2012/08/obama-orders-pentagon-to-massa
cre.html


Pirate News named in US Civil War 2012
http://dragonaters.blogspot.com/2012/08/tail-of-dragon-killboys-civil-
war.html











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Monday, December 17, 2012 9:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Democracy = mob rule. Rushing to restrict our freedoms under the guise of saving us , from ourselves.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 17, 2012 9:07 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Democracy = mob rule. Rushing to restrict our freedoms under the guise of saving us , from ourselves.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



They thought you wanted DEMON-ocracy.


https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=f&oq=bohem
ian+grove

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Monday, December 17, 2012 9:14 AM

JONGSSTRAW


If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? I'll support Obama on this, and if they have to kick in every door to get these automatic and semi-automatic weapons I'll volunteer to help. Only a parent can fully understand what these Newtown parents are dealing with.








"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Monday, December 17, 2012 9:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Jongs






If I had a gun, legal and licensed, and the govt came to take it away, busting in my door, they'd need more than 1 body bag, I can tell you that.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 17, 2012 9:59 AM

STORYMARK


And if it is no-longer legal?




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, December 17, 2012 10:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Good luck repealing the 2nd Amendment.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 17, 2012 10:22 AM

STORYMARK


You do realize that the 2nd amendment was still in place during the assault rifle ban, right? During which... they were not legal. You knew that, right???

Do you even TRY to think before resorting to talking points? Nevermind, we all know the answer already.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, December 17, 2012 10:57 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? I'll support Obama on this,
Only a parent can fully understand what these Newtown parents are dealing with.

Amen bro.

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Monday, December 17, 2012 11:29 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? I'll support Obama on this, and if they have to kick in every door to get these automatic and semi-automatic weapons I'll volunteer to help. Only a parent can fully understand what these Newtown parents are dealing with.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin



Hello,

I wonder if this is tongue in cheek?

Not only the automatic weapons that were never used, but also all semiautomatic weapons?

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Monday, December 17, 2012 11:53 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is?



So you'll support rounding up all the strange loner kids and giving them exhaustive psychological testing to insure that none of them will ever do such a thing?


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:11 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Jongs

If I had a gun, legal and licensed, and the govt came to take it away, busting in my door, they'd need more than 1 body bag, I can tell you that.


With all due respect...fuck your legal and fuck your licensed. You can keep your revolvers and bolt-action rifles. But if you decide to go 'Hitler in the bunker' to hold on to your Uzis and Glocks, good luck. You'll need it.








"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:15 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

So you'll support rounding up all the strange loner kids and giving them exhaustive psychological testing to insure that none of them will ever do such a thing?



What? Dude, either you're trying to be funny here (& are failing) or you need help your own self.

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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:17 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? I'll support Obama on this,
Only a parent can fully understand what these Newtown parents are dealing with.

Amen bro.

Thanks. I know you raised children, so I know you understand that this mass killing is different than anything that has ever occured. High school and college carnage is bad enough, but nothing is comparable to the emotions associated with 6 and 7 year-olds.








"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:24 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Jong,

Okay, I guess you weren't joking.

You are actually advocating the seizure of all weapons that employ actions invented after the late 19th century.

Or maybe it's more than that. Do pump actions and lever actions get a pass?

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:27 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is?



So you'll support rounding up all the strange loner kids and giving them exhaustive psychological testing to insure that none of them will ever do such a thing?


Yes, if the FBI's BAU develops a rock-solid profile.



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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Jongs,

You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED.

Glock ( http://us.glock.com/ ) is a maker of pistols, for all sorts , from military, police and the private citizen. They don't even make assault rifles or machine guns.


So, fuck anyone who wants a gun grab for that which they clearly don't know a damn thing about in the first place. Hysterics isn't a good means of rational govt. What you're supporting is tyranny. I would not side w/ that.


Also, a " rock solid " profile ? You mean like how Richard Jewell was profiled in the Olympic Park bombing, in the '96 Olympics ? Or what of the DC sniper? Remember what they said he ( it was actually 2 ) was likely to be ?

Yeah, missed by a good bit on those, huh?


Again, what you're talking about Jongs, exists only on t.v., and not in the real world.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:44 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongs,

You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED.

Glock ( http://us.glock.com/ ) is a maker of pistols, for all sorts , from military, police and the private citizen. They don't even make assault rifles or machine guns.


So, fuck anyone who wants a gun grab for that which they clearly don't know a damn thing about in the first place. Hysterics isn't a good means of rational govt. What you're supporting is tyranny. I would not side w/ that.


Also, a " rock solid " profile ? You mean like how Richard Jewell was profiled in the Olympic Park bombing, in the '96 Olympics ?

Again, what you're talking about Jongs, exists only on t.v., and not in the real world.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "


Calling me ignorant does you no service. You're also totally wrong about behavioral analysis and the real world. Psychological profiles can and do catch killers, and only law enforcement knows how many lives have been saved this way.

I would start with...

a) High school loners aged 15-18
b) Bullying victims aged 14-18
c) Males between 18-25 who don't work or go to college



Also, taking away assault weapons and large magazine semi-automatic handguns is not tyranny. It is a common sense approach for the common good. "Ensure domestic tranquility" is in the preamble of the Constitution. It is My right to not have to live in fear of these weapons of mass destruction.






"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:45 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongs

If I had a gun, legal and licensed, and the govt came to take it away, busting in my door, they'd need more than 1 body bag, I can tell you that.



A wise man once said, invest in food, silver, gold and lead.

If They come for your gold, give em the lead.



A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

From 1492 to the 1800s, the British and United States banned guns from African slaves and Native Americans, resulting in the genocide of over 30-million.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated, 100s were eaten by cannibal Presdient Idi Amin.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, please spread this antigun-control message to all of your friends.

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

IT'S A NO BRAINER!

DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO

MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment!

It's time to speak loud before they try to silence and disarm us.
You're not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people~



Pearl High School massacre stopped by school principle with a Colt 45, Satanic cult convicted of conspiracy to commit murder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Quote:



"There's going to be a Marxist revolution in Amerika. We need to be organized and grow the movement."
-Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro, member of the Young Marxist Club at Occidental College
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/meeting_young_obama.html

"I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough. Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at. Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon.''
-Professor Bill Ayers, FBI/CIA employee and confessed bomber of NYPD HQ, US Capitol, NY Supreme Court, bombed and killed two female bombers in his house, busted CIA LSD mind-control agent Timothy Leary out of prison, confessed to 12 bombings in Operation Northwoods but never prosecuted, author of Barack Hussien Obama Sotoro's authorized biography and grant recipient of Obama's Annenberg Foundation
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2001/No-Regrets/

"Last Thursday evening at Montclair State University, with a video camera rolling, Bill Ayers volunteered that yes indeed he had written the acclaimed Barack Obama memoir, Dreams from My Father. 'Yeah, yeah,' he said after confirming again that he wrote Dreams, 'And if you help me prove it, I'll split the royalties with you. Thank you very much.'
-Terrorist Ayres ADMITS writing "autobiography" for Obama
http://capoliticalnews.com/blog_post/show/8090

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_underground

"I'm Barack Obama, the Marxist professor. I spent the last two years of high school in a daze. I drank beer heavily, and tried drugs enthusiastically. Look I uh, when I was a kid , I inhaled, frequently. that was uh, that was the point. Pot helped, and booze. A little blow when you could afford it. Junkie, pothead, that's where I was headed. Now you know that guy ain't shit. Sorry ass motherfuckers got nothin on me, nothin. Shit's gettin way too complicated for me. There are white folks, then there are ignorant motherfuckers like you. You can put lipstick on a pig. You ain't my bitch nigger, buy your own damn fries. That's just how white folks will do ya."
-Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro, Dreams From My Father MP3
http://www.archive.org/details/ObamaInauguralMashup/

"Government control of communications and transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank




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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Jongs - You looked real silly w/ your Glocks comment.

Also, I'm not disputing that profiling CAN work in a case by case basis, but you're talking about in a country of 300 million +. Hell, any teenager or young male that 'acts up', at some time, would be put on your Gestapo list of deviants.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 17, 2012 12:54 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongs,

You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED.

Glock ( http://us.glock.com/ ) is a maker of pistols, for all sorts , from military, police and the private citizen. They don't even make assault rifles or machine guns.


So, fuck anyone who wants a gun grab for that which they clearly don't know a damn thing about in the first place. Hysterics isn't a good means of rational govt. What you're supporting is tyranny. I would not side w/ that.


Also, a " rock solid " profile ? You mean like how Richard Jewell was profiled in the Olympic Park bombing, in the '96 Olympics ?

Again, what you're talking about Jongs, exists only on t.v., and not in the real world.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "


Calling me ignorant does you no service. You're also totally wrong about behavioral analysis and the real world. Psychological profiles can and do catch killers, and only law enforcement knows how many lives have been saved this way.

I would start with...

a) High school loners aged 15-18
b) Bullying victims aged 14-18
c) Males between 18-25 who don't work or go to college



Also, taking away assault weapons and large magazine semi-automatic handguns is not tyranny. It is a common sense approach for the common good. "Ensure domestic tranquility" is in the preamble of the Constitution. It is My right to not have to live in fear of these weapons of mass destruction.






"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin




Hello,

I changed my mind again. I'm convinced you're not serious.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Monday, December 17, 2012 1:01 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongs - You looked real silly w/ your Glocks comment.

Also, I'm not disputing that profiling CAN work in a case by case basis, but you're talking about in a country of 300 million +. Hell, any teenager or young male that 'acts up', at some time, would be put on your Gestapo list of deviants.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Silly? Not at all. Glocks are like Berettas, Sig Sauers, Brownings etc. They have magazines that hold around 14-20 rounds, and they fire 9mm bullets. They became popular a couple of decades ago because they were lightweight and had fast action with little recoil. It's a military killing machine. It has no right to be out there, in the hands of lunatics, threatening my grandkids in school or anywhere else.








"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Monday, December 17, 2012 1:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Silly? Not at all. Glocks are like Berettas, Sig Sauers, Brownings etc. They have magazines that hold around 14-20 rounds, and they fire 9mm bullets. They became popular a couple of decades ago because they were lightweight and had fast action with little recoil. It's a military killing machine. It has no right to be out there, in the hands of lunatics, threatening my grandkids in school or anywhere else.




Yeah, Anthony is right this time. You're not being serious.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, December 17, 2012 1:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Maybe he is being serious.

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Monday, December 17, 2012 5:00 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse


You are the ONLY country in the developed world that has this kind of a problem. You constantly hide behind this "Constitutional right" bullshit, to justify having multi billion dollar weapons manufacturers dictate policy to you.

I'm not even going to bother getting into the argument.Suffice it to say, that the rest of us are PRAYING that you do something about it, just so as we can welcome you to the grown up world. It's been far too long in coming.



With the grace of age, commander, we learn to accept.

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Monday, December 17, 2012 5:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



The Constitution was in place long before these multi billion dollar manufacturers ever existed. I think you have it the other way around. They're here, BECAUSE of our rights, not dictating them to us.

Though it's been a while, this nation was still the first one to make it to the moon, and still has yet to have a proper riot, after a SOCCER match, so if joining the rest of the ' grown up world' is following that lead, I think we'll pass on that invitation.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:45 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

So you'll support rounding up all the strange loner kids and giving them exhaustive psychological testing to insure that none of them will ever do such a thing?



What? Dude, either you're trying to be funny here (& are failing) or you need help your own self.



Chris.

Jongs says this is absolutely the last straw and that something needs to be done. I'm just curious to see how far that conviction goes. Jongs is perfectly willing to have the government seize property from millions of law-abiding citizens in what is essentially a feel-good effort that will do little or no actual good towards stopping tragedies like Sandy Hook.

If the option is available to take the killers out of circulation, rather than their tools, and this really is the last straw, why should Jongs, or you, oppose it? My suggestion above is purposeful hyperbole, to match the "seize them and melt them down" knee-jerk reactions I see here.

Given my choice, I'd opt for finding ways to actually help folks who might be on track for a murderous breakdown; through better access to mental health care, efforts to remove/reduce the stigma of mental illness, and possibly more attention paid by the professionals who come in contact with them.

This could have the added benefit of also getting more care to folks who may not end up homicidal, but need help as well.

As noted several times, Not sure why no one wants to seriously discuss this.

ETA: I see Jongs would agree to the roundup. Maybe I'm not the one who needs help, Chris.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:40 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

As noted several times, Not sure why no one wants to seriously discuss this.


Truthfully, we as a nation will not spend money on preventative measures of any kind. Treating mental illness might be the best way to avoid future shootings, but we won't go there. The occasional shooting & its clean up is cheaper than a health care system tweak of any kind, I find that rather disgusting my own self, but there you go.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:31 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
If I had a gun, legal and licensed, and the govt came to take it away, busting in my door, they'd need more than 1 body bag, I can tell you that.



They do make body bags for fat people, so you would be covered.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:34 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongs,

You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED.



You do realize that guns look different very often because they are designed for different purposes...right?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:53 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
If I had a gun, legal and licensed, and the govt came to take it away, busting in my door, they'd need more than 1 body bag, I can tell you that.



They do make body bags for fat people, so you would be covered.


Most effective burn of the year.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Jongs,

You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED.



You do realize that guns look different very often because they are designed for different purposes...right?



No. The point you missed is that it was by how a gun LOOKED, to the untrained eyes of some members of congress, in how it was determined which guns would be banned, and which weren't, during the last " assault " gun ban.

And also, I sorta agree w/ your above comment. Too many of our law enforcement officers ARE fat bastards. Me? You've never seen, so your comment is rendered moot.

Reminds me of Will Smith, in MIB, talking to his pudgy co worker on the force...

" I AM half the man you are ! "



And Chrissy, if that was the most effective burn of 2012, then it's high time for the end of the world. Completely lame, it was.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you Jong. Although you go a bit far, I agree with your feelings. Stand fast against the idiot gun bunnies. Peacekeeper nailed it perfectly:
Quote:

You constantly hide behind this "Constitutional right" bullshit, to justify having multi billion dollar weapons manufacturers dictate policy to you.

I'm not even going to bother getting into the argument.Suffice it to say, that the rest of us are PRAYING that you do something about it, just so as we can welcome you to the grown up world. It's been far too long in coming.


Point about the weapons manufacturers is they DO dictate policy to us, via the NRA and their money. They weren't here in the beginning, they just found the better mousetrap and ran with it. And here we are.

Hasn't a damned thing to do with how guns look; has to do with what they are capable of; to say it's just about looks is one of the stupidest things anyone's said today. Given Rap's belief otherwise, I'm assuming that's something he heard from right-wing talk radio or FauxNews. Sounds about like something they'd say.

Sadly, I fear Chris is right:
Quote:

Truthfully, we as a nation will not spend money on preventative measures of any kind. Treating mental illness might be the best way to avoid future shootings, but we won't go there. The occasional shooting & its clean up is cheaper than a health care system tweak of any kind, I find that rather disgusting my own self, but there you go.


Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:47 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
No. The point you missed is that it was by how a gun LOOKED, to the untrained eyes of some members of congress, in how it was determined which guns would be banned, and which weren't, during the last " assault " gun ban.



Well this is the time for groups like the NRA to get into the debate with something other than simply fighting any type of restrictions.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:47 AM

ARLO

-.-. ..- -- / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- . / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - .- . / . .-. .- - --..-- / - ..- -- / ... --- .-.. .. / .--. .-. --- ... -.-. .-. .. .--. - / -.-. .- - .- .--. ..- .-.. - .- ... / .... .- -... . ..- -. -




-- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .

Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?

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Saturday, December 22, 2012 8:15 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


We used to have a ban on certain guns and that worked fine, I'd be fine with that ban being reinstated. I'm curious though and no one seems to know that answer, what kind of gun did this individual use to kill all those kids? I'm guessing it was one that would have been banned previously, but no one seems to know, shed light?

I don't like Jong's gestapo hit list of young loner men idea, very bad choice.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Saturday, December 22, 2012 8:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


It was a Bushmaster, a version of the AR-15 semi-automatic, also used in the Columbine shootings. That's the reason semi-automatics are back in the discussion, because of their ability to kill many people quickly, and the discussion around large-capacity magazines because, again, they make it possible to kill many people without reloading.

I think the impetus right now IS on re-instating the semi-auto ban, as those are what is most frequently considered "assault weapons" (whether they fit that category or not, that IS the public perception). The focus right now is on banning semi-autos, high-capacity magazines, and closing the loophole of gun shows, where one can buy a weapon without any kind of background check.

Yes, I heard Scarborough, and numerous others like him have spoken up. There's also those totally removed from politics, such as Bob Costas and Jim Boeheim, Syracuse coach, who spoke up at the press conference.

There's Mark Warner:
Quote:

Another high-profile Democrat with strong backing from the National Rifle Association said Monday it was time for tougher gun laws.

"I believe every American has Second Amendment rights. The ability to hunt is part of our culture. I have an NRA rating of an 'A,' but enough is enough," Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia told WBBT, a local CNN affiliate in Richmond.


And others from whom you wouldn't expect it:
Quote:

"Everything should be on the table," West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin declared Monday. He is a conservative Democrat, avid hunter and lifelong member of the National Rifle Association. Manchin said he's "not afraid of the political ramifications" from defying the NRA.
Quote:

Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa proposed a study of both gun violence and mental health issues.
Quote:

Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid vowed Congress would soon "engage in a meaningful conversation and thoughtful debate about how to change laws and culture that allow violence to grow." In 2010, top NRA official Wayne LaPierre called Reid "a true champion" of gun rights.
Quote:

U.S. Rep. John Yarmuth said Monday that he was wrong for not speaking up sooner about gun violence and that legislators should not fear the pro-gun lobby in passing stricter controls aimed at avoiding a repeat of the carnage at a Connecticut school.
Quote:

Senator Richard Durbin of Illinois, who is the chairman of a subcommittee on the Constitution and civil rights, said that he would hold hearings on Second Amendment rights. “What will it take?” Mr. Durbin wrote, listing one by one the mass shootings that have occurred in the United States over the past few years. “What it will take is for the majority of Americans, and the majority of thoughtful gun owners and hunters, to agree that there must be reasonable limits on gun ownership and weapons.”
Quote:

In Albany, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said he would make several gun policy proposals in his state of the state address next month.
Quote:

Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York called for “a new paradigm” in the gun control debate and cautioned that proponents of tighter regulation needed to be mindful of the concerns of responsible gun owners as they pursued their cause.

“First, those of us who are pro-gun-control have to admit that there is a Second Amendment right to bear arms,” he said. And the other side, he added, was being counterproductive by claiming “the left wants to take that hunting rifle your Uncle Tommy gave you when you were 15.”

Quote:

Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut who is about to leave Congress, was among those calling for restrictions on assault weapons. Mr. Lieberman repeated his views that assault weapons “were weapons created by the U.S. military for use in war.”

Not all of them have been Democrats, and some of them have had very high ratings from the NRA in the past.

Something is shifting, hopefully. Maybe this time something will actually happen. I'm not holding my breath, but I'm allowed to hope.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...




Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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