REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Are You A Sociopath?

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Friday, December 7, 2012 06:14
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9252
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Thursday, November 29, 2012 11:51 AM

BYTEMITE


Wait, are you seelie or unseelie? Seems like the unseelies wouldn't mind infractions so long as you didn't get caught, so telling people would be kinda along the same lines.

Least you avoided the seven year tithe...

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Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:21 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


All silliness aside, I'm surprised there wasn't more in the symptom list about selfishness. Because I'm probably one of the most selfish people you will meet. I like being up front about it, but if I'm too honest it will mean I won't get my way as much, because for some reason most people have a hard time with the idea of me lookin out for no. 1, so I try to veil it a little bit, but I'm not so good at it. So that should count for something in that symptom list but it doesn't seem to for some reason.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:25 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

All silliness aside


Heh.

Quote:

The words "seely" (with other forms being seily, seelie and sealy) and "unseely" are Scots, Northern and Middle English terms meaning "happy", "lucky" or "blessed" and "unhappy", "misfortunate" or "unholy," respectively. They are derived from the Old English sœl and gesœlig. The Modern Standard English word "silly" is also derived from this root and the term "seely" is recorded in numerous works of Middle English literature.


You're not convincing me about your non-supernatural origins. :P

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Thursday, November 29, 2012 1:16 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
...That blasphemy tastes DELICIOUS. It is a heaping serving size of lulz and irreverence.


Mmmmm, Sacred Cow cheeseburger, can I haz it?!

Oh, and for the record my affiliation is with the UnSeelie Court.
For them unfamiliar with the distinction, basically less wish-granting, more entrail-ripping, luring you to your doom in a bog, pranking, and stealing single socks while replacing them with coat hangers.


-F

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Thursday, November 29, 2012 3:23 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Seelie. I'm not too mean, usually. :)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, November 30, 2012 9:34 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I'v wundrd that about myself.

My conclusion iz that I'm not a sociopath, but I am mistaken for sumthing like that. I am better than ordinary people.

I think our society iz dependent on a low level uv empathy and if a significant portion uv the population wuz like me, it woud fall apart. But, maybe after a period uv kaos, leaving only a billion or so uv us, a better society coud begin.

A good hypothetical to ilustrate my view iz the 'who to hit' choice.

If the brakes in my car suddenly werent working and I coud steer to avoid either an animal or a human, my lojik sez the human takes the hit.

Granted that in the heat uv the moment, I mite hezitate or even make the other choice, and the particular animal and human coud likely hav an influence, but I am not prone to decisionz based on emotion and am a machine while driving.

My lojik iz that

1. We humanz are benefitting from the existence uv carz and roadz virtually exclusively. All other speciez are loozing out due to the existence uv our transportation systemz. Therefor, it woud only be fair to the racoon, squirrel or wutevr to let the human pay the price.

2. The human shoud know to stay off the road az much az possible and to be at hi alert wenevr crossing, so in most situationz woud hav sum blame in getting hit.

3. The human iz more likely to survive the hit. Not only by taking action to reduce injury, but will also get much better medical care.

I think most people woud consider me danjerously deranjed for this.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Friday, November 30, 2012 9:56 PM

BYTEMITE


I think loaded ethical dilemmas themselves are dangerous, and probably reflect more on how we were brought up and social propaganda than anything really about us or our choices.

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Saturday, December 1, 2012 6:14 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Who woud you hit?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Saturday, December 1, 2012 6:24 PM

BYTEMITE


Neither. It's a pretty simple option. You'll find there's ALWAYS a third option. False dilemmas really aren't a valid measure of anything.

You'd be better paying off the insurance for crashing your car than what it would cost to hit either the person or the animal.

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Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:41 PM

FREMDFIRMA



I myself am a big believer in Third Option Thinking, as my theological beliefs in truth revolve around it.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TakeAThirdOption

As Kirk once said "I don't believe in a no-win situation."

-Frem

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Saturday, December 1, 2012 11:54 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


In TV showz the hero often gets to rize above the situation.

In real life there often iz no option. Lucky to hav 2 choicez. Sumtimez there are otherz but you arent smart enuf or dont hav enuf time to figure them out till later.

Hypothetical situationz show sumthing, even wen you refuze to accept the premise.

You 2 like to seem danjerous, yet you wont even dare to make a hypothetical life & deth choice.

Are you familiar with the works of Xiang Yu?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I've ignored this thread thus far, and wil go back to doing so. Mostly because Byte made some remark in the thread where this originated (can't find it again and not going to bother looking hard) about this -- paraphrasing and probably badly here -- fitting her agenda or something. To me labeling oneself a sociopath is pretty ridiculous; an actual sociopath wouldn't BE here, in my estimation, unless there was something to gain by it. And we've been here before with Byte trying to convince everyone she's "evil"; her reasons for doing so I can't imagine, but I recall that the last time she got pretty pissed off that we wouldn't accept her definition of herself and ended up "threatening" us--with what, I can't imagine.

I think there's something psychological to your NEED to be seen as evil or something, Byte; I don't know what it is, but it makes me feel sad for you. I totally reject the idea that you are either evil or a sociopath, but I'm not going to argue with you about it. Your need is obviously very strong. I wish it weren't.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 7:46 AM

BYTEMITE


That's fair. My need to be evil is nearly matched by my desire to be stealthy and unnoticed.

Quote:

fitting her agenda or something


Well, yeah. I explained that one in a message to you, and on that thread in question. My agenda is to make everyone dislike me so I can leave. All my behaviour plays into this.

Quote:

"threatening" us--with what, I can't imagine.


Just another suicide threat that wasn't followed through on. If I'd actually done that, people wouldn't have been very happy with you or Anthony.

Although actually in retrospect that plan wouldn't have worked, you'd probably all have celebrated.

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 8:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I am better than ordinary people.


Quote:

I think most people woud consider me danjerously deranjed for this.


Hello,

Yes. Not for the animal thing. But for that first quote.

You say things that trouble me far more than anything Byte has ever said.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA



JO?

While I probably shouldn't dignify such drivel with comment, what the hell.

Throwing Hobsons Choice or Mortons Fork at me will just encourage me to laugh at you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

That particular on/off, black/white, yes/no binary mindset is of itself both a danger and a disaster, just so you know, it cuts out all the wonderful shades of grey in which the world truly operates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_%28psychology%29

And with most "hypothetical situations", the 'premise' is often loaded to a degee which makes the whole exercise futile and pointless - say I was to start a hypothetical in modern day america with "So there you are, walking your slave coffle..." ?
It falls RIGHT there, on the necessary presumpion of an outright impossibility due to the construction and nature of the society its based in, becomes ludicrous - gamesmanship like that is one reason I became reluctant to discuss anarchism from a social aspect, mind you.

Sure, there are hard choices sometimes, and you run out of time, resources, and what have you, but being PREPARED for that, having options in advance, is also a key point to me theologically, which happens to make me damn good at my real-life work which bankrolls the other stuff, just so you know.
Nobodys perfect, and when I fumble a ball it tends to be a memorable occasion, but catching me out to where I don't have a myriad of options on the table and backup plans to go with, is a damn rare event.

And yes, I am familiar with Xiang Yu - he was a scumbag, the Chinese version of Vlad Tepes, so what of it ?

You REALLY wanna hurt someone, torture them - you find out what they really WANT, discover the truth of their very hearts desire...
And GIVE IT TO THEM, give it to em good and hard.
Then you will break them, totally and utterly.

Mercy can be the deadliest weapon of them all.

-Frem

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:20 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

In real life there often iz no option. Lucky to hav 2 choicez. Sumtimez there are otherz but you arent smart enuf or dont hav enuf time to figure them out till later.


I hear that argument so many times. But the real reality is, if you get yourself in a corner like that, it's because you already made terrible decisions before that got you there. :/

Maybe everyone that tries to propose ethical dilemmas should be forced to take a HAZWOPER class. There's rules and standards and guidelines already in place about how to approach dangerous situations without putting additional people at risk or sacrificing people. Anyone in the modern day that thinks they can solve any problem by throwing expendable reserves at it should get ready for a lawsuit.

Frankly I don't even take the question seriously, which is why I won't answer it straight. Ethical dilemmas just are not the deep insightful koans people think they are.

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:24 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

But the real reality is, if you get yourself in a corner like that, it's because you already made terrible decisions before that got you there. :/



Hello,

Yes, but... that describes a lot of human events very well.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 10:33 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:

But the real reality is, if you get yourself in a corner like that, it's because you already made terrible decisions before that got you there. :/



Hello,

Yes, but... that describes a lot of human events very well.

--Anthony





Foresight is not something many of us are known for. But it still means that any ethical dilemma like the ones proposed have to be taken out of context from the decisions before it. Most of us will never see a situation remotely like any in the usual ethical dilemmas posed, it takes a special kind of person to screw up that much to get there.

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:01 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Good call, Anthony.

Frem, I intended the Xiang Yu thing az a little inside joke, really. I know nothing about him beyond wuts sed in Firefly by Simon, Book and Niska. A sikopathik skumbag, I gather.

I used to be a professional driver, and learned that most people behave like cattle wen they are operating a car. No suprize, since thats how the DOT treats us. Most uv the time the system iz safe, so the average mom running her errandz can just obey the lites and sinez without incident. Many will go their whole livez with just a few fender benderz worth uv bad stuff.

But sum tiny persentij uv trips end in a serious injury or deth. Theze are situationz that dont involve setting up backup planz or much in termz uv being prepared beyond wut vehicle you drive. So trying to discount the hypothetical situation I propozed az a failiure uv earlier choisez iz invalid.
[url]

]


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 11:22 AM

BYTEMITE


This is something I'll never understand. You're sitting behind the wheel of a sharp metal death trap going 65 miles an hour, well past the rate of mental and visual processing that humans evolved to be capable of. No person will, or has ever been, "safe" driving a car, by any definition of the word "safe."

The mistake is getting into the car in the first place.

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:59 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


How do you get around?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 2:47 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
How do you get around?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com]

Hello,

Sociopaths have enhanced hand/eye coordination.

That's another reason why your proposed scenario was pointless.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 6:27 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I gess you arent a driver, Byte. 65 seemz like a snail crawl to me.



----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Sunday, December 2, 2012 6:37 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

The ISTP nature is most easily seen in their mastery of tools, tools of any kind, from microscopic drill to supersonic jet. From an early age, they are drawn to tools as to a magnet; they must manipulate them, and tools fall into their hands demanding use. Many pilots by the age of five knew that they were going to be pilots. ISTPs tend to take up activities that allow them to use tools: driving, steering, operating. And if a given tool, whether scalpel or earthmover, is operated with a precision that defies belief, that operator is likely an ISTP. Others, use tools, of course, but not with the virtuosity of the ISTP. Indeed, we must call ISTPs the tool artisans, for they above all others command the tool and bend it to their impulse. But again, ISTPs work with their tools on personal impulse and not on schedule. If an externally imposed schedule coincides with impulse, fine; if not, so much the worse for the schedule.

Throw in the hillybilly ancestry and a certain degree of mechanical savantism, and I'd say you're pretty "safe" in the passenger seat, although not a position reccommended for those with skittish nerves cause I do like to push the envelope sometimes - said skill being amazingly useful when some moron pulls a dangerous and boneheaded move in front of me and I decide the safest place to be is with them in the rear view mirror!

FYI: The car in question is a performance modified 1985 BMW 325e - very little of the fancy high tech stuff, but that stuff adds weight, mass, and all the gewjaws in the world do will not change the laws of physics for you... try tellin that to assholes who think AWD and antilock brakes gives their 6000lb SUV magical abilities though, every snowfall you'll see tons of em in the ditch beside I-94 for exactly this reason, whereas my ride is about a thousand pounds lighter than anything else out there, even other compacts, and handles like a cat on rails.
Sure, it ain't as survivable in a wreck as modern cars, but it's MUCH more likely in the hands of a skilled operator to NOT HAVE THAT WRECK IN THE FIRST PLACE, which is a point so called "safety" advocates kinda deliberately overlook when selling you 1500lbs of "safety" equipment which reduces your MPG and makes your car less maneuverable.

Essentially the "civilian" version of THIS.


Mines got the six banger with BoMo fuel injection on a ZF 4HP22 transmission (auto/overdrive) and while geared and chipped for fuel efficiency, still retains it's potential full performance via throttle kickdown (i.e. if you stomp it, will override for power) and handling characteristics.

Only downside is that it apparently wallows badly in snow (according to my insurance company) but you can't have everything.

-Frem

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Monday, December 3, 2012 8:33 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Thats the stuff!

Wuts ISTP?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Monday, December 3, 2012 9:11 AM

BYTEMITE


Meyer-Briggs Personality System.

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Monday, December 3, 2012 10:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte, I just don't get it. "My need to be evil is nearly matched by my desire to be stealthy and unnoticed." I don't understand what you "get" by being (well, thinking you are being) "evil", "stealthy" or "unnoticed". You can't really be "stealthy" on the internet, not by posting the way you do or what you do, nor can you be "unnoticed" if you're even ON the internet. And nobody does anything unless it gives them pleasure, unless they GET something out of it, and I can't comprehend what you could "get" out of trying to convince people you're evil--which you cannot--or trying to be stealthy or unnoticed--which of course you're not either.

"My agenda is to make everyone dislike me so I can leave. All my behaviour plays into this." That makes no sense at all. If you want to leave, nobody's stopping you; making people dislike you (and you certainly won't manage THAT, the way you post) won't MAKE you leave, so what's the point?

What you accomplish here by your behavior is to get some people to care about you and/or worry about you, some people to argue with you that you're NOT evil, and some people to ignore you. I have yet to see anyone believe you're "evil", nor do I expect to see it happen. The closest we have to "evil" around here, in my opinion, is Six, and before him Kane, and now potentially Jo--tho' I've read so little of his posts I only get that impression from others' responses to him. You don't come NEAR any of those, and they're quite tolerated, so how do you think you can achieve convincing people you're evil? Certainly not by telling them you are, you've already found that out. You can continue to insist on it, which you seem to be doing, but it's futile, so why?

It just doesn't make sense. Nor does your threat of suicide...I didn't realize that's what you were threatening, but it actually doesn't matter. Nobody would have been unhappy with Anthony or me (I don't remember the specifics of that incident); if someone commits suicide, unless they were abused or bullied in some way, it's nobody's responsibility but theirs. And I can't help wondering; if you did commit suicide, how do you think we'd ever even have known?? You'd just disappear. I suppose you know some of us off line, but unless you know someone here personally who lives near enough to you, just disappearing from e-mail contact or whatever wouldn't let anyone know you'd died. It's all very weird and makes no sense to me.

Basically, I don't understand what you get out of what you do here when it comes to insisting you're a sociopath or evil or threatening suicide. Can you tell me/us how that does anything for you? Why do you feel you "need" to be evil? I'd really like to know.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Monday, December 3, 2012 10:53 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Can you tell me/us how that does anything for you?


It destroys my relationships, hopefully, which is actually very useful.

Quote:

You can't really be "stealthy" on the internet, not by posting the way you do or what you do, nor can you be "unnoticed" if you're even ON the internet.


Eventually you'll all get tired of it and start ignoring me, at least that's my best guess of the likely behavioural pattern.

It's like that story about the kid crying wolf, only instead of outright lying, it's more being really obnoxious about telling the truth. So much so that people THINK I'm lying anyway. Ultimately the two different ends of the spectrum are indistinguishable.

Quote:

You can continue to insist on it, which you seem to be doing, but it's futile, so why?



But, you have a point here. I could be going about this all wrong. Perhaps I should "put up or shut up" so to speak.

I imagine you can guess which one I'm most likely to do.

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Monday, December 3, 2012 11:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Has anyone started ignoring you yet? Maybe some have, but how many? As far as I can tell, you've never been ignored in all the time I've been here...don't you think it would have worked by now?

I'm tempted to ask WHY you would want to destroy all your relationships, but you'd probably come back with something like you're evil so you deserve it or something, which is bullshit in my opinion. I don't see how destroying them coujld possibly be "useful", tho'.

I think I'll just give up. You're welcome to play all the games you want, but I can tell you that I believe most people here won't spend much time trying to figure out if you're lying, nobody can ever know on the internet, so why bother wondering?

As to your threats against us (and there were threats, as I recall, not all of which I think could refer to suicide), I told you then and will reiterate it: There's nothing you can do to any of us, period. It's the internet, everyone's anonymous unless they choose to be otherwise, so you're powerless to harm us.

I think what you're doing more than anything is wasting your time, but it's certainly your time to waste, so have fun.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Monday, December 3, 2012 1:28 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


I can giv you sum advice for that, Bytemite.

Change your name to a number, that'll get rid uv all your square frendz. Then bekum an active Nooalf Warrior. That'l chase away everybody else.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Monday, December 3, 2012 1:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think I'm one of three people on this board who knows what HAZWOPER is without having to look it up.

I'll have mine with cheese! (Yeah, it's lame, but we all say it where I work.)

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Monday, December 3, 2012 1:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... well past the rate of mental and visual processing that humans evolved to be capable of ..."

Uhhhmmm ... theoretically humans shouldn't have good enough hand-eye coordination to center a slide under a microscope at 600x magnification - but they do. Parrots shouldn't be able to understand human language - but they do. So, when it comes to how evolution works and the limits that one thinks should apply - there are major exceptions.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2012 6:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mmm, good point Kiki.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, December 4, 2012 4:05 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I like hypothetical situations, I think some of my answers to them would bother some people, but I answer out of instinct and then I can be persuaded to change my mind sometimes if others have better arguments. In this situation I'd much rather hit the animal, I might feel a little bad, but not very much. Now if it were an endangered animal that only had a few left that would make the situation more worth considering. But I still think I'd hit the animal, unless I knew the person would be okay and wouldn't press charges.
Yes, I'm mean. its just the way it is.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, December 4, 2012 4:55 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I similarly would choose preservation of human over animal in the course of accidental harm.

On the other hand, I can envision the possibility of willfully harming a human to preserve an animal.

I think a malignancy of intent is the critical element of difference. If I knew a human was malignantly hurting an animal for no benefit, then that human would become less human to me. Causing pain for its own sake is a dehumanizing process, both internally to the participant and externally by the witness of an observer. Anyone who would commit torture for their pleasure becomes wretched to me.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 4:57 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I think a malignancy of intent is the critical element of difference. If I knew a human was malignantly hurting an animal for no benefit, then that human would become less human to me. Causing pain for its own sake is a dehumanizing process, both internally to the participant and externally by the witness of an observer. Anyone who would commit torture for their pleasure becomes wretched to me.


Then you should consider me less than human, Anthony.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 6:37 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

I think a malignancy of intent is the critical element of difference. If I knew a human was malignantly hurting an animal for no benefit, then that human would become less human to me. Causing pain for its own sake is a dehumanizing process, both internally to the participant and externally by the witness of an observer. Anyone who would commit torture for their pleasure becomes wretched to me.


Then you should consider me less than human, Anthony.

Here your subconscious undermines your reading comprehension for a chance to debase yourself, 'cause debasing yourself has become a habit with you. Anthony said "less human," as in a diminished humanity, suggesting that sadism deminishes one's ability to experience their own humanity. But you feel inhuman, you feel less THAN human, so that's what you read him saying. It's not there, but you saw it there.

It's not at all a simple error you just made, but it's the kind of error you make on a regular basis, one which in your case has become predictable and repeatable, not because you're stupid or lazy (far from it!) but because you refuse to look for what you aren't conditioned to see. Because you presume that what you believe to be true is true and don't question it.

I wonder, have you ever really questioned if you are a sociopath or not? Have you ever had your doubts, once you were aware of the concept, that you even were a sociopath? As a woman of science, do you see any evidence in your life and conduct to suggest that you might not be a sociopath after all?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 6:50 AM

BYTEMITE


No, I'm saying I have a history of sadism, violence, and torture. Anthony says that if he saw someone hurting a cat, he would think them less than human - he would think them wretched.

Then FOLLOW THROUGH! Don't make friggin' exceptions because you THINK you like someone! How many admissions of stuff I've done does it take before you people actually start to believe me?

I mean this is a pretty clear cut baseline of determining wretchedness and inhumaness and sociopathy by every possible metric out there, and it's something I've actually done, at an age that I knew damn well better, but I did it anyways, because it was FUN. Squeeze. Watched their eyes go wide. Watched the desperate struggle and laughed as they tried to scream.

I misunderstood NOTHING, HK. It is YOU who do not understand ME. And no amount of "getting in touch with my (nonexistent) inner feelings and subconscious" is gonna change that. I am what I am. I KNOW what I am. You can accept it, or you can persist in pretending and looking the other way. But I can not ABIDE not being given my due. So don't toss a bunch of new age words at me and expect an emotional epiphany. It ain't happening.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 7:08 AM

HKCAVALIER


Just asked you a couple questions, Byte. Oh, and we'll see who's right about what Anthony meant to say.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 7:11 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:


I wonder, have you ever really questioned if you are a sociopath or not? Have you ever had your doubts, once you were aware of the concept, that you even were a sociopath? As a woman of science, do you see any evidence in your life and conduct to suggest that you might not be a sociopath after all?



Yes, No, No. People were scared of me as a kid. Grown adults. They think I grew out of it, but I'm just better at hiding it.

Quote:

Oh, and we'll see who's right about what Anthony meant to say.


That's called moving the goal posts people. You set the baseline to qualify and I kicked that field goal - the ball was small and fluffy and dismayed. Accept it or don't, but the truth is right there on the scoreboard. Even the Refs are calling it good, and they're usually worthless. Hands up in the air. The crowd goes wild.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 7:28 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


You must luv American Psycho. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0144084/

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 7:36 AM

BYTEMITE


Nah, not really. Douchebag in a suit, there's like a billion of those.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 7:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I think a malignancy of intent is the critical element of difference. If I knew a human was malignantly hurting an animal for no benefit, then that human would become less human to me. Causing pain for its own sake is a dehumanizing process, both internally to the participant and externally by the witness of an observer. Anyone who would commit torture for their pleasure becomes wretched to me.

Well said, Anthony, but for me, it doesn't make them less than human to me. Just screwed up; we become what we become for reasons, even if we don't know what they are consciously, so while I would agree with "wretched", I wouldn't view them as less than human. As you said, it harms the person doing it as much as whatever person/animal they harm. The same for anyone who deliberately harms a child or another person. Yet it happens a million times every day, for reasons beyond our understanding.

I also agree with everything Cav said, and don't see what Anthony said as being directed at Byte. Harming animals does not make one a sociopath, Byte; if it did, we'd be surrounded by sociopaths, which we are not. It makes one a very sad person, but there's far more to sociopathy than that. Personally, I think you, again, have some need to be seen that way and you get something out of labeling yourself thus.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 8:00 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah I get something out of it - the truth.

Seriously, you people just won't be convinced. :/ I made one last effort because the thread got bumped and still nothing. Bah.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 9:58 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I think I'm one of three people on this board who knows what HAZWOPER is without having to look it up.


Four, actually.

Also, while I can be cagey and skittish about discussing specifics of Vaj Theology, that one I'll give ya, since Anthony personally asked me a similar question recently - if I was driving and had to make a choice between an animal and a human, I'd attempt to thread the needle via skill, but I *would* hedge on saving the animal by preference as a matter of moral prioritization, as animals are quite literally incapable of doing the amount of harm humans are, and generally have no malicious intent.
(That, and better chance on the human having the sense to GTFO, and if not, hello Darwin!)

I say generally cause you could make a case for some of the primates, and I've known a dolphin who was a complete asshole.
(Bet Niki knows of whom I speak!)

-Frem


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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 10:16 AM

HKCAVALIER


Byte,

In all the years of reading your posts on this board I have never once witnessed you demonstrate sadism of any degree beyond schadenfreude. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You have however demonstrated your need to demean yourself ad nauseum.

Your strategy for convincing us all that you are a sociopath has failed, and failed extravagantly, swaying exactly no one to your way of thinking. Would it really be so hard to do if you really were a sociopath? Sociopaths tend to be pretty damn clever in getting what they want, no? This, again, is entirely consistent with a desire to humiliate yourself (which, btw, is not something sociopaths generally go in for; they avoid it like a plague).

No, if you truly intended to convince us that you were a sociopath, you would have taken a tack similar to our fellow browncoat, Hero, f'rinstance. I'm sure he's not a sociopath in real life, but he does a fair imitation of one on the internet, one all sociopath wannabes would do well to study and emulate. He has never shown any emotion in his posts stronger than contempt and amusement and often as not both simultaneously. He has never defended dignity nor individuality nor personal freedom (except as a snark) as you have done in earnest on many, many occasions. Though, now that I think of it, he does indulge in canned histrionics from time to time. But like your claims to being capital "E" evil, his speechifying has convinced exactly no one.

Your emotional volubility alone, Byte, proclaims you something quite other than a sociopath.

If you really want to convince a living soul that you are sociopathic, you are gonna have to up your game. And that doesn't mean threatening to "end it all," but, rather, it would mean demonstrating some degree of taste for the real suffering of another human being. Not TPTB, not someone you feel has hurt you, but someone here, someone, preferably, whom you as a "sociopath" only pretend to be close to, such as Frem or Riona. If you truly wanted to convince anyone that you were a sociopath I don't think it would be all that difficult, technically speaking, just something you're too emotionally integrated to actually go ahead and do.

I can't make you like yourself. I wouldn't try. And I know damn well I don't understand you, but I do claim to know something about people. And like it or not, you are a person, Byte. And I do try, from time to time, to upset your settled, uncharitable notions about yourself. It's no secret that I think they do you far more harm than good. I know you disagree, but it don't make you a sociopath.

1) Callous unconcern for the feelings of others; (Not as demonstrated by your defense of others on this board and your many and effusive apologies over the years.)

2) Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations; (Not the norms determined by this community, not in the least. Unfortunately for your argument, you fit right in. )

3) Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them; (How long until a relationship becomes "enduring?" 'Cause you've been coming here for 4 years and many here consider you at least a friend. And I know for a veridical fact that Frem and Riona, at the very least, love you.)

4) Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence; (See, this is one which you fail utterly. Your tolerance for frustration on this board knows no bounds. A real sociopath who experienced the level of frustration you've suffered here would have moved on long, long ago to greener pastures. Can you even imagine Hero expressing frustration on this board?)

5) Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment; (Not buying. You demonstrate guilt frequently and you have profited from your experience here. Oh, and that last bit about "profiting" from punishment is kinda disgusting and sorta-kinda renders the whole list suspect. No one profits from being punished.)

6) Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society. (And here is your grand, all-encompassing FAIL as a sociopath, Byte. This thread is a monument to your inexhaustible ability to blame yourself for your behavior and all your conflicts with society. I think that is the central conflict you're having with the group here: no one here blames you, Byte, for your bad behavior.)

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 10:33 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:


Seriously, you people just won't be convinced. :/



Probably a direct result of the lack of a convincing argument, Im afraid.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 10:38 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

ad nauseum.


Yes, I figured as much. Starting to become irritating, is it? Heh.

It's become pretty obvious to me that none of you actually know me at all. Such is the limits of internet interaction. But, also for the best, one of us would have snapped and turned our interactions into a blood bath if we all knew each other in real life, just not sure who.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 10:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, most excellently dissected Cav, and should be retained to repost every time Byte goes on about her "evilness" and how we should all be "afraid" of her. Personally, I wish she'd just give it up. She has so much of value to say on so many other subjects, this one has just gotten very old and boring.

I guess it never occurs to her that nobody CARES if she's "evil". We're just faceless voices on a forum board...who and what we are in real life doesn't come into it, all that comes into it is our opinions and our words, which can't hurt anyone unless they let them.

Thank you for your most eloquent and definitive explanation of why neither Byte, nor I believe anyone else here, constitutes a "sociopath". Would that it could be an end to it, but I doubt it will...which brings up the question of the need for attention, but I won't go into that.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2012 11:58 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Some people are hardwired wrong, physicality, interests, enjoyments, you name it. The key is finding a way to channel that into something that is less problematic/possibly even helpful. My great uncle was a sociopath, he had antisocial personality disorder (postumously diagnosed by yours truly, but better than nothin). When he was a boy he would beat up his dad a lot, treated everyone poorly. As an adult he went through seven wives. But the thing that he did that made sense is that he took that bloodlust and cruelty and he made it count for something. He went to war and blew the shite out of the crouts, it was a win win situation, he had fun killing and America got closer to defeating Hitler, so he was able to do something with his malfunction. Incidentally he died fairly young of an aniorism.

Fortunately his "bad seed"ness was a bit of an apparition, no one else in my family has had this situation so that's a good thing, it isn't heavy in our genetics, it was just a fluke.

My friend Sam had an incident with a person with ASPD the other day at work, she said it was kind of scary, the woman in question gave off a most frightening sort of energy. Not to say that they all give off frightening energy, after all that would negate that charming charismatic factor, but obviously some of them do.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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