Heatless Steam by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Heatless Steam

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 09:10
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Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:42 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Is there a way to turn water into water vapor in a terrestrial atmosphere without using heat? Essentially I wonder about the production of cold steam.

--Anthony

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Tuesday, November 27, 2012 4:58 PM

HERO

Vaporizers can do that.

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:13 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Is there a way to turn water into water vapor in a terrestrial atmosphere without using heat? Essentially I wonder about the production of cold steam.

Nature does it all the time. Clouds and fog come to mind.

Also, if you go to places with high temps and low humidity, like Las Vegas, they have devices that spray a very fine mist for evaporative cooling outside the casinos.

Or google 'fog machine'.

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Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Is there a way to turn water into water vapor in a terrestrial atmosphere without using heat? Essentially I wonder about the production of cold steam.

Nature does it all the time. Clouds and fog come to mind.

Also, if you go to places with high temps and low humidity, like Las Vegas, they have devices that spray a very fine mist for evaporative cooling outside the casinos.

Or google 'fog machine'.

Cloud fueled power plants?

Sounds like something from Willie Wonka, or Dr. Seuss.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:07 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Is there a way to turn water into water vapor in a terrestrial atmosphere without using heat? Essentially I wonder about the production of cold steam.

--Anthony

Hello,

I apologize. I wasn't very clear.

I don't mean traditional spraying or evaporating or the formation of fog or clouds. I am envisioning quickly and energetically transforming a quantity of water into a quantity of water vapor, such as might be suitable as a propellant, but without the harmful effect of generating third-degree burns on anyone exposed to the vapor.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Tuesday, November 27, 2012 8:41 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Is there a way to turn water into water vapor in a terrestrial atmosphere without using heat? Essentially I wonder about the production of cold steam.

--Anthony

Hello,

I apologize. I wasn't very clear.

I don't mean traditional spraying or evaporating or the formation of fog or clouds. I am envisioning quickly and energetically transforming a quantity of water into a quantity of water vapor, such as might be suitable as a propellant, but without the harmful effect of generating third-degree burns on anyone exposed to the vapor.

--Anthony

I don't think so. Evaporation is a very slow, very small process, to make water vapor one molecule at a time. To use steam ( technically gaseous water, not water vapor. Water vapor is the white stuff you get out of your teakettle AFTER the steam hits ambient temperature room air and condenses.) takes a lot of energy- it takes 900-something BTU's just to convert 1 pound of water at 212 degrees to 1 pound of steam at 212 degrees and sea level air pressure., in addition to 1 BTU to raise that pound of water each degree up to 212, and more if you have to overcome confined steam pressure, like in a boiler. And the stuff would have to be under pressure to provide enough force to make propulsion.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 4:29 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I apologize. I wasn't very clear.

I don't mean traditional spraying or evaporating or the formation of fog or clouds. I am envisioning quickly and energetically transforming a quantity of water into a quantity of water vapor, such as might be suitable as a propellant, but without the harmful effect of generating third-degree burns on anyone exposed to the vapor.

If water is placed under very low pressures (strong vacuum) it will boil without heating. Of course it will also freeze because the reaction is endothermic.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:33 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I am particularly interested in achieving vapor/steam within standard atmospheric pressures. (Though now I wonder if water could be a propellant in space.)

I wondered if it would be possible to energize/agitate water sufficiently with sound-waves so that it transitioned into vapor/steam, and I wondered if that vapor/steam would necessarily be very hot.

This may be a losing curiosity, because it may simply take so much energy to change the state of water quickly that the resultant vapor/steam will necessarily be hot.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:47 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello,

I am particularly interested in achieving vapor/steam within standard atmospheric pressures. (Though now I wonder if water could be a propellant in space.)

Depends on what you mean by 'vapor'. Atomized liquid water (mist) like from an ultrasonic humidifier, or gaseous water that's evaporated from the surface? Steam would be water changed to a gaseous state throughout it's volume by heat or lack of air pressure.

In both real science and SiFi there is a lot of discussion of steam rockets and the use of water as reaction mass.

Quote:
I wondered if it would be possible to energize/agitate water sufficiently with sound-waves so that it transitioned into vapor/steam, and I wondered if that vapor/steam would necessarily be very hot.

Atomized water would not necessarily be hot, but I don't think it'd be very energetic either. The atomized water itself would still take up the same volume whether in a tank before atomization or after in the air. If you had a closed room with a glass of water sitting on the table, and then made suspended liquid water particles of the water, the pressure in the room wouldn't change.

Evaporative vapor shouldn't be very hot either, but would also not have much energy. Evaporation is controlled by heat and pressure, and if you put in enough heat energy to make water molecules move rapidly enough to generate any usable volume change, you hit the boiling point and get steam, which increases volume dramatically (1600 times or so) and quickly when going from liquid to gas, which is where you get the energy. So I'm thinking 'cold steam' isn't gonna fly.

Since atomized liquid water would still have the same mass as the water it was made up of, I suppose if you could find some way to accelerate it (electro-magnetic induction?) you could use it as a rocket or to drive a turbine, but I'm not sure it'd be very efficient.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 8:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

It might not be workable with water and normal atmospheric pressure (sea level), but it might work with a different liquid, one which will boil at room temperature at sea level.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 9:10 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Nah, the energy HAS to come in somewhere Anthony, and usually that's heat.
On the other end of the scale, the coolness of superheated water.

If you take pure water in a clean container, push it WAY past the boiling point and then add an impurity... THIS.

-Frem

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