REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Disgruntled Tepublicans vow to move to Australia

POSTED BY: MAGONSDAUGHTER
UPDATED: Monday, September 16, 2013 02:15
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Thursday, November 8, 2012 9:02 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/fail-anti-obama-teen-wants-to-move-to
-australia-because-we-have-christian-male-president/story-e6frf7jo-1226512853271


Dummies!

Edit Tepublicans was a slip, must have been a freudian one ;)

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 9:14 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I assumed it was short for Tea Party Republicans.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



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Thursday, November 8, 2012 9:14 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Rush Limbaugh claimed if Obamacare passed he was moving to Costa Rica...



... where he could enjoy their free universal healthcare.


Apparently a bunch of anti-gay, anti-socialist, anti-Obama, anti-government-healthcare right wing nutsacks also want to move to Canada.

Savor the irony.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 9:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I think Costa Rica is the preferred 1st choice.

Rule of law and rights to property ownership are high on the list for countries to look into.

It's gonna get bad here. Real bad.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:00 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

It's gonna get bad here. Real bad.




Hello,

On this I agree, and the only cure for the badness is for the GOP to evac.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



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Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

It's gonna get bad here. Real bad.



On this I agree, and the only cure for the badness is for the GOP to evac.

--Anthony



How will a bunch of rich guys leaving help ? Who the hell will pay the taxes for all the Govt benefits then ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:10 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

It's gonna get bad here. Real bad.




Hello,

On this I agree, and the only cure for the badness is for the GOP to evac.

--Anthony





Not to here, thank you. We've got enough jerks of our own.

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:11 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Atlas shrugged, right?

The only way to correct the system is to Evac. That'll prove your worth.

Reminds me of the Hitchhiker's Guide, actually.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



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Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:11 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


How will a bunch of rich guys leaving help ? Who the hell will pay the taxes for all the Govt benefits then ?"



Do the wealthy pay tax in America?

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Do the wealthy pay tax in America?



Far more than anyone else... hell, they basically pay ALL the taxes here. Why do you ask ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 10:42 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Saw a piece on this over on CNN.com just yesterday.

The basis of the article was just that talk is cheap, and a lot of people shot off their mouths about doing that, but VERY few of them will actually DO it. Big talk, lots of bluster, but no reality. ( Come to think of it, that does sound like the Republicans. )

They wanta leave, fine, so long, don't let the door hit 'em in the ass on the way out.

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



When some Hollywood elites started mouthing off about leaving the country if W won ( first AND second time ), it was nothing more than contrived, imagined moral outrage, at the injustices of a stolen election ( which wasn't ) and all the hate crimes that weren't happening to Muslims, or some such tripe.

Here ? People who have worked their entire lives, very hard for their money, and yes, who DID build that, have an actual, tangible reason to be fearful of this President. He LITERALLY wants to take away from them what they earned. Obama didn't say he wants to 'spread the income around', he said he wanted to " spread the WEALTH around." There's a key difference in what is EARNED and what one already OWNS. ( Think Robert Mugabe style )

At first glance, the two reactions may seem like mirror images of each, but look harder. There's more substance to the fears of those on the Right than ever there was for those on the Left.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:07 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I agree. Fear Warranted. Evacuation is a good idea. Go soon.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:10 AM

HKCAVALIER


Hey Anthony (good to see you!),

Ayn Rand's logic is perhaps the most specious in history. So, all the wealthiest people simply leave and the country goes to hell 'cause, lord knows, nobody else knows the first thing about making money? 'Cause there aren't hundreds of folk, every bit as compitent as they (if not moreso) waiting in the wings to take their places if given half a chance? Did she truly see the world as so devoid of talented people, that you could skim off the top 0.001% and the rest of us neanderthals would fall to pieces??? Damn, but she was a hateful, hateful human being.

Can it really be that hard if the Donald is one of 'em? Her notion of the Capitalist is just a gussied-up, Americanized version of the Fascist Strong Man.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:17 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

When some Hollywood elites started mouthing off about leaving the country if W won



Such as?

(To everyone else, I know, I know... asking rappy for citation, probably wasting my time)




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:19 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Cavalier,

Always a pleasure.

While I may agree with you, it does not serve my purposes to admit to it here.

Here, our goal should be (with apologies to Australia) to encourage the idea that these few individuals are precious as diamonds, that they will get the last laugh, and that we will be righteously destroyed by their departure.

If only they will make good on their offers and go.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:22 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

When some Hollywood elites started mouthing off about leaving the country if W won



Such as?

(To everyone else, I know, I know... asking rappy for citation, probably wasting my time)




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



Hello,

I think I remember this, too. It's easy to forget all the crazy things that were said when W was in power.

But believe me, all kinds of idiocy was spouted. The Conservatives studied it all and then took it to the next power when Obama was elected.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:30 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello Cavalier,

Always a pleasure.

While I may agree with you, it does not serve my purposes to admit to it here.

Here, our goal should be (with apologies to Australia) to encourage the idea that these few individuals are precious as diamonds, that they will get the last laugh, and that we will be righteously destroyed by their departure.

If only they will make good on their offers and go.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz





They really wouldn't like it here.

Heavy gun restrictions
No capital punishment
Abortion is readily available (as is contraception)
Public health care system
High taxation that is graduated depending on income

Oh and a female Prime Minister who is not married (lives with partner) and an atheist.

But no gay marriage (yet)

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello Cavalier,

Always a pleasure.

While I may agree with you, it does not serve my purposes to admit to it here.

Here, our goal should be (with apologies to Australia) to encourage the idea that these few individuals are precious as diamonds, that they will get the last laugh, and that we will be righteously destroyed by their departure.

If only they will make good on their offers and go.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz





They really wouldn't like it here.

Heavy gun restrictions
No capital punishment
Abortion is readily available (as is contraception)
Public health care system
High taxation that is graduated depending on income

Oh and a female Prime Minister who is not married (lives with partner) and an atheist.

But no gay marriage (yet)



Hello,

Couldn't take one for the team, could you?

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



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Thursday, November 8, 2012 11:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Hey Anthony (good to see you!),

Ayn Rand's logic is perhaps the most specious in history. So, all the wealthiest people simply leave and the country goes to hell 'cause, lord knows, nobody else knows the first thing about making money?






" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 12:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

When some Hollywood elites started mouthing off about leaving the country if W won



Such as?

(To everyone else, I know, I know... asking rappy for citation, probably wasting my time)



Alec Baldwin
Robert Altman
Eddie Vedder...

Others, like Cher, Barbara Streisand, Lynn Redgrave ( deceased ), were rumored to have threatened to leave, but those claims were never confirmed.

Pierre Salinger ( deceased ) , who wasn't specifically 'Hollywood', was still a Democratic celeb, of note, fulfilled his promise.

Whttp:// www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/leave.asp


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 12:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Oh,and why, oh WHY would anyone leave the USA now ???

On Tuesday, Consol Energy issued a federally mandated layoff disclosure announcing its "intent to idle its Miller Creek surface operations near Naugatuck, W.Va."

The move will affect the company's Wiley Surface Mine, Wiley Creek Surface Mine, Minway Surface Mine, Minway Preparation Plant and Miller Creek Administration Group, all in Mingo County, W.Va.

Despite state approval, cooperation with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and myriad other agencies, and a stellar safety record, Obama's EPA dragged its feet on the permit approval process. The impasse has forced layoffs of 145 Consol Energy employees that will hit at the end of the year.


YAY ! More folks on Foodstamps!!

Obama- The Foodstamp President.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 12:14 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

When some Hollywood elites started mouthing off about leaving the country if W won



Such as?

(To everyone else, I know, I know... asking rappy for citation, probably wasting my time)




Alec Baldwin
Robert Altman
Eddie Vedder...

Others, like Cher, Barbara Streisand, Lynn Redgrave ( deceased ), were rumored to have threatened to leave, but those claims were never confirmed.

Pierre Salinger ( deceased ) , who wasn't specifically 'Hollywood', was still a Democratic celeb, of note, fulfilled his promise.

Whttp:// www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/leave.asp


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Ok, you came through. I stand corrected.

But, really, do you think those threatening to leave on the right are really doing any more than posturing?



Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 12:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Ok, you came through. I stand corrected.

But, really, do you think those threatening to leave on the right are really doing any more than posturing?




Dunno.

I suspect many folks who we've never even heard about will do exactly that, sell what they can and get the hell out of dodge.

Neal Boortz ( talk show host ) claims he's gonna activate his escape plan. What that fully entails, I'm not sure. He was scheduled to retire ( after 41 years on air ) on Inauguration Day, but because Obama won, he's thinking of having his final day be at year's end. Something to do w/ how he's working his finances, or some such.
http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuze/2012/nov/08/third-hour-today-
got-your-escape-plan
/


But keep in mind, unlike many Hollywood celebs, these folks are no where near the prima donna's , just pining for attention. Like I said... we may not know their names, or even the companies they run, but if they do pull up and 'Shrug', it's going to cause some ripples.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 1:52 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm sure Australia has rules about people moving in, its not like they can just show up or something, that will be up to Australia, and most of them won't do it anyways, just like all those celebs who were going to move to Canada in 04 but didn't.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 1:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I'm sure Australia has rules about people moving in, its not like they can just show up or something, that will be up to Australia, and most of them won't do it anyways, just like all those celebs who were going to move to Canada in 04 but didn't.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



Very strict, or they were, 10 years ago.

You need to have a sponsor, and if you plan to work, need to show how anyone hiring you can justify it over hiring an Auzzie. Of course, if folks are coming to retire, and have no plans on taking a job, but instead just spend money... that might be different.

Least, that's how it was explained to me from some guys I know who lived here for a short time.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 1:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

But keep in mind, unlike many Hollywood celebs, these folks are no where near the prima donna's , just pining for attention. Like I said... we may not know their names, or even the companies they run, but if they do pull up and 'Shrug', it's going to cause some ripples.




Riiiiiiight...


'Cause these guys you've listed would NEVER come out and say it in advance or anything.


Rush made a promise, and I want him held to it. Alec Baldwin as well. And ol' Shitbritches Nugent.

And of course, not a one of 'em has the guts or balls to do anything they said they were going to do. Just like Rappy, just like Wulfie, just like all the pussies on the right, just a cloud of cowardice and bluster.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 2:01 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I'm sure Australia has rules about people moving in, its not like they can just show up or something, that will be up to Australia, and most of them won't do it anyways, just like all those celebs who were going to move to Canada in 04 but didn't.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



Very strict, or they were, 10 years ago.

You need to have a sponsor, and if you plan to work, need to show how anyone hiring you can justify it over hiring an Auzzie. Of course, if folks are coming to retire, and have no plans on taking a job, but instead just spend money... that might be different.

Least, that's how it was explained to me from some guys I know who lived here for a short time.




It's funny how Rappy doesn't get the irony of running away to someplace like Australia, Canada, or Costa Rica to get away from gays, healthcare, socialism, gun control, and abortion.

Seems if you really want to go somewhere where the government is based on religious intolerance, gays are outlawed, abortion is murder, etc., you'd be better off in someplace like Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, or Somalia. There's your libertarian paradise.

Now please go, all you "producers". Teach us a lesson, show us who really matters in this country. We'll try to kludge along as best we can without you.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 2:03 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I think Magon's is probably right, they'd be disappointed if they're trying to "escape" from these things.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 2:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Check your pampers, kwickie.

I never

A. Said I was gonna leave, or

B. Approved or supported bugging out of country if the commie horde took over.

I just relayed and commented on as to what others were saying.

Rush VOWED to leave , if Obama won ? Really? Cite, please.

Wook at you...all twisted with spit and venom, after your lord and savior Barry eeked by , for a 2nd term. Good for you! Feel good about yourself, kwickie !

( but go change yourself, or you'll get a stinky rash ! )



eta -
Quote:


Seems if you really want to go somewhere where the government is based on religious intolerance, gays are outlawed, abortion is murder, etc



Who says anyone who wishes to escape Obama has any of the concerns you listed ? I think that's just a glimmer into the lies you believe about conservatives, and what they care about.

Color me not surprised.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 2:20 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

that's just a glimmer into the lies you believe about conservatives, and what they care about.


Hello,

People would understand the GOP better if their representatives stopped talking about all these things you claim to be lies.

--Anthony





Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



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Thursday, November 8, 2012 3:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



People would understand the GOP better if their representatives stopped talking about all these things you claim to be lies.




Sensing a pattern here. The discussion wasn't " the GOP ", but average, private American citizens, fed up w/ the massive tax / spend / regulation fest that's coming w/ Obama 2.0.

They're Americans. Folks born of an who love freedom, and they see that freedom being threatened by Obama. They're not part of some gang, or tribe, who all blindly follow along with what their elected officials say.

And point of fact, it's only a tiny fraction of a small % of elected officials who have said the things you blame ALL members of the GOP, and ALL who have, "may " have voted for them, at some time. And those officials? Most were ASKED about those issues, weren't offering it , and some stuck their foot in their mouths. Apologies were made. Didn't matter, the " damage " had been done. They didn't embezzle, didn't cheat on anyone, didn't break any laws, just said some stupid stuff. Or,in some cases, didn't say anything 'stupid' at all, but because of the shark frenzy mindset of the MSM, which loves to blow stories way out of proportion, a false narrative gets born.

But hey, if lying works for you, then that's super!



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 3:52 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

And point of fact, it's only a tiny fraction of a small % of elected officials who have said the things you blame ALL members of the GOP, and ALL who have, "may " have voted for them, at some time.


Hello,

All members of the GOP suffer from the 'small percentage' who say these terrible things and the 'large percentage' who fail to properly condemn them.

As for me blaming ALL members of the GOP, including those
Quote:

who have, "may" have voted for them at some time


That's an interesting statement.

You have your own rebuttal.

Quote:

if lying works for you, then that's super!


--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 4:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Seriously, what the fuck is wrong w/ your brain ?

The issue was of AMERICAN CITIZENS , leaving the country ?

Quote:

All members of the GOP suffer from the 'small percentage' who say these terrible things and the 'large percentage' who fail to properly condemn them


Ok, fine, you wanna play that game? ALL MUSLIMS suffer from the small % who do terrible things and the large percentage who fail to properly condemn them.

See? I can be just as absurd as you, and step even FURTHER away from the issue at hand. Wanna keep going? Or do you want to just admit , once again, you're wrong, that what Akin said about rape has zero bearing on the issue of Americans wanting to leave the country under a Marxists loving Obama.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 4:40 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Ok, fine, you wanna play that game? ALL MUSLIMS suffer from the small % who do terrible things and the large percentage who fail to properly condemn them.


Hello,

Is this supposed to be absurd?

Quote:

Or do you want to just admit , once again, you're wrong, that what Akin said about rape has zero bearing on the issue of Americans wanting to leave the country under a Marxists loving Obama.


Did I connect the promised exodus to Aikin's comments? Could you show me where?

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 5:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Meanwhile, back at the thread...

There are already signs of this happening one day after the election.

Bob Wray, Realtor ‏ @ Mach1Broker
And I won't be hiring. RT @ HopeRealtor: I own a small business...as of today. I will be laying off 10 of my 60 employees...Thanks Obamacare
Retweeted by Neal Boortz
Expand
Reply
retweet
favorite
11h janetshoemake ‏ @ janetshoemake
Our company just announced that our work force will be trimmed by 40%&all salaries are frozen for 3 years starting Friday. Learning Friday.
Retweeted by Neal Boortz
seth dearinger ‏ @ shouldbworking
@ chuckularone @ talkmaster i have spoken with several of our customers who are saying they will be closed by year end
Retweeted by Neal Boortz
View conversation
6h Andrew Nelson ‏ @ AndrewN52382443
@ Talkmaster Lost my most loyal and profitable client this morning... large staffing firm. Because the owners are liquidating the company.
Retweeted by Neal Boortz
Mike Miller ‏ @ MikeMil37788917
@ Talkmaster My father-in-law's company lost around 45% of their customers today because their jobs depended on Obama being ousted
Retweeted by Neal Boortz

Chuck McKenna ‏ @ chuckularone
@ talkmaster I'm rethinking my business plan. My top two investors backed out today. They need to circle their wagons. I'm not happy.
Retweeted by Neal Boortz

hazelwood ‏ @ bazelwood
@ Talkmaster amen!! They are dumping people at my job. I hate to admit it but I had an evil grin for a few of them

DearAmerica ‏ @ Letters2America
@ Talkmaster Hubby may be out of a job. Owners just completed their dual-citizenship in Italy due to economy. Obama win pushes them over edge
Retweeted by Neal Boortz


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 5:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'm sure this isn't even a little related...

Pratt and Whitney Rocketdyne cuts Valley workforce
11-7-2012

Rocket engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne Inc. cut 100 salaried and hourly positions Wednesday as a response to an uncertain future of the space industry and the general economic climate.

U.S. Cellular to sell Chicago customers to Sprint, shed hundreds of local jobs
11-7-2012

"In Chicago, it’s about 160," Dillon said. "In the greater Chicago area, about 680 and overall a little over a thousand associates (will lose jobs)."

Nextel to cut 20% of jobs at Virginia headquarters
11-7-2012

NII Holdings, which operates mobile services under the Nextel brand in Latin America, announced that it is taking actions to realign certain resources and roles between its headquarters and market units in order to create a stronger and more agile organization, and to facilitate future growth. As part of this strategy, the company is reassigning select positions located at its headquarters to its operations in Latin America and eliminating certain positions at its corporate headquarters in Virginia (US).

Nearly 200 'family-sustaining' jobs to be lost as HarperCollins plans to close warehouse
11-7-2012

HarperCollins Publishers will close its warehouse and distribution operation in Throop next summer and put close to 200 people out of work.


Hawker Beechjet to shed jobs
11-7-2012

Layoff notices will be sent to about 410 Hawker Beechcraft employees, as the company plans to close facilities in three locations and shut down its business jet production.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 5:36 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I'm sure Australia has rules about people moving in, its not like they can just show up or something, that will be up to Australia, and most of them won't do it anyways, just like all those celebs who were going to move to Canada in 04 but didn't.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



Yes we have very strict rules. No more right wingers allowed in the country as we have enough of our own and we are on strict quotas.

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 5:44 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Rap reminds me of the hysteria surrounding the introduction of the carbon tax, and how the end was nigh, of course espoused by rightwingers in the media. The day came and went. The world hasn't ended.

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 6:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


I never

A. Said I was gonna leave,



Can you cite for me where I said you did?

Quote:


B. Approved or supported bugging out of country if the commie horde took over.

I just relayed and commented on as to what others were saying.



"I think Costa Rica is the preferred 1st choice.

Rule of law and rights to property ownership are high on the list for countries to look into.

It's gonna get bad here. Real bad. "

I guess that's you disapproving and being unsupportive of others "bugging out".

Quote:


Rush VOWED to leave , if Obama won ? Really? Cite, please.




Absolutely. Right after you show me where I said he VOWED to leave (I assume you capitalized that word for emphasis; please show me where I used it. I'll wait.

Quote:


Wook at you...all twisted with spit and venom, after your lord and savor Barry eeked by , for a 2nd term. Good for you! Feel good about yourself, kwickie !



Dick Morris said it was a "landslide". His word for what happened. And I don't "savor" Barry; sorry, but you'll have to taste him all by yourself. Savor the defeat; how's that taste?

Quote:

Quote:


Seems if you really want to go somewhere where the government is based on religious intolerance, gays are outlawed, abortion is murder, etc


Who says anyone who wishes to escape Obama has any of the concerns you listed ? I think that's just a glimmer into the lies you believe about conservatives, and what they care about.




Remember, Geezer insists it CAN'T be a lie if the person saying it believes it.

Are you saying you DON'T believe abortion is murder and you DO believe that gays should have equal rights under the law?




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 6:46 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:



People would understand the GOP better if their representatives stopped talking about all these things you claim to be lies.




Sensing a pattern here. The discussion wasn't " the GOP ", but average, private American citizens, fed up w/ the massive tax / spend / regulation fest that's coming w/ Obama 2.0.

They're Americans. Folks born of an who love freedom, and they see that freedom being threatened by Obama. They're not part of some gang, or tribe, who all blindly follow along with what their elected officials say.




Riiiiiight. Only "the Left" does that. We're not individuals AT ALL, but just one hive-mind. The Teabaglicans like you aren't AT ALL marching in lockstep with what your party tells you.

Sure thing.

Quote:


And point of fact, it's only a tiny fraction of a small % of elected officials who have said the things you blame ALL members of the GOP, and ALL who have, "may " have voted for them, at some time. And those officials? Most were ASKED about those issues, weren't offering it , and some stuck their foot in their mouths. Apologies were made. Didn't matter, the " damage " had been done. They didn't embezzle, didn't cheat on anyone, didn't break any laws, just said some stupid stuff. Or,in some cases, didn't say anything 'stupid' at all, but because of the shark frenzy mindset of the MSM, which loves to blow stories way out of proportion, a false narrative gets born.




You mean a false narrative like "Barry was IN BED while all this was going on! The CIA was ordered to stand down! Only the POTUS can order that!"

That kind of false narrative?

Quote:


But hey, if lying works for you, then that's super!



It's good enough to get you a runner-up prize in the presidential election, apparently.





"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 6:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm sure this isn't even a little related...

Pratt and Whitney Rocketdyne cuts Valley workforce
11-7-2012

Rocket engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne Inc. cut 100 salaried and hourly positions Wednesday as a response to an uncertain future of the space industry and the general economic climate.



Did their welfare checks from Papa NASA run out?

Will the space industry have to rely on private business for its mother's milk?

The free market should rejoice.

Quote:


U.S. Cellular to sell Chicago customers to Sprint, shed hundreds of local jobs
11-7-2012

"In Chicago, it’s about 160," Dillon said. "In the greater Chicago area, about 680 and overall a little over a thousand associates (will lose jobs)."



Can't be due to Obama, then. After all, he's such a Chicago insider (according to right-wing fucktards like Rappy) that he'd never let cushy jobs in his home city be outsourced!

Quote:


Nextel to cut 20% of jobs at Virginia headquarters
11-7-2012



What party are the majority of state officials in Virginia members of? Governor Vaginal Probe and his little gang? No wonder companies are rushing to get out of there!

Quote:


NII Holdings, which operates mobile services under the Nextel brand in Latin America, announced that it is taking actions to realign certain resources and roles between its headquarters and market units in order to create a stronger and more agile organization, and to facilitate future growth. As part of this strategy, the company is reassigning select positions located at its headquarters to its operations in Latin America and eliminating certain positions at its corporate headquarters in Virginia (US).



This will come as welcome news to Republicans, who championed Arizona's "Papers Please" law as the model to use to run all Hispanics out of the country. Congrats - you got a whole bunch of Nextel's Latin America employees to leave and go to Latin America! Exactly what you wanted!

Quote:


Nearly 200 'family-sustaining' jobs to be lost as HarperCollins plans to close warehouse
11-7-2012

HarperCollins Publishers will close its warehouse and distribution operation in Throop next summer and put close to 200 people out of work.



Oh noes - a dead-tree publisher is shutting down a book factory. It's such a shame there's no way to publish books without decimating forests. If only someone would invent some kind of digital media to put books on...

Quote:


Hawker Beechjet to shed jobs
11-7-2012

Layoff notices will be sent to about 410 Hawker Beechcraft employees, as the company plans to close facilities in three locations and shut down its business jet production.



Where will Mittens get his next plane?






"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Thursday, November 8, 2012 6:58 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I'm sure Australia has rules about people moving in, its not like they can just show up or something, that will be up to Australia, and most of them won't do it anyways, just like all those celebs who were going to move to Canada in 04 but didn't.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



Yes we have very strict rules. No more right wingers allowed in the country as we have enough of our own and we are on strict quotas.



I hear Greece is happy to have far-right fascists like Rappy in their Golden Dawn party.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

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Friday, November 9, 2012 3:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Rap reminds me of the hysteria surrounding the introduction of the carbon tax, and how the end was nigh, of course espoused by rightwingers in the media. The day came and went. The world hasn't ended.



Because the carbon tax was never implemented, here in the US. Which has a population roughly 14x that of Australia.

Carbon tax is a woeful scam. Unnecessary, excessive intrusion into the lives of individuals, by an over bearing federal govt.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, November 9, 2012 5:03 AM

BYTEMITE


Well... My objection to the carbon tax is that the bigwigs in the petroleum industry support various forms of it, so it appears to be a scam for the big fish to buy up all the pollution licenses themselves and drive smaller competitors out of business.

I'm not interested in creating gasoline monopolies. The few big suppliers we do have are bad enough with the games they play with prices.

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Friday, November 9, 2012 8:25 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:

Ok, fine, you wanna play that game? ALL MUSLIMS suffer from the small % who do terrible things and the large percentage who fail to properly condemn them.


Hello,

Is this supposed to be absurd?

Quote:

Or do you want to just admit , once again, you're wrong, that what Akin said about rape has zero bearing on the issue of Americans wanting to leave the country under a Marxists loving Obama.


Did I connect the promised exodus to Aikin's comments? Could you show me where?

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz



LOL. First reasonable thing rappy has said in forever - and he meant it as a (bitter, butthurt) joke!




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, November 9, 2012 9:51 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Because the carbon tax was never implemented, here in the US. Which has a population roughly 14x that of Australia.

Carbon tax is a woeful scam. Unnecessary, excessive intrusion into the lives of individuals, by an over bearing federal govt.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

"



But it was implemented here in Australia, and the threatened end of world scenarios meant to accompany it have not materialised. The Right love their fear mongering around any government policy implemented by the Left. Did a great job of stirring up the hysteria, for no apparent reason.

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Friday, November 9, 2012 10:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, dear, Magons, my deepest sympathy to your ocuntry--except that like most here, I recognize it'sa lot of talk and nothing will actually happen. For your sake, I hope. For mine, I wish they WOULD go; if they did, maybe there'd be hope for the Republican Party!
Quote:

Do the wealthy pay tax in America?

Made me smile. The short answer would be "as little as they can get away with". Our government (under their control) has created so many loopholes, subsidies, etc., and made it easy/profitable for them to bank their wealth off shore, that they don't pay anything LIKE the percentage everyone else does. I'd adore it if Australia didn't have all those things, and that those who actually DID move there (which I have no doubt virtually none WILL) got their comeuppance when they discovered they'd left a country that pampered them incredibly to go to one where they'll have to pull their share! Wouldn't wish it for you guys, tho', or Canda or anywhere else. Spreading our crazies around the world isn't something I want to see; bad enough WE have them!

Anthony (you've been MISSSSED!!!), you nailed it:
Quote:

All members of the GOP suffer from the 'small percentage' who say these terrible things and the 'large percentage' who fail to properly condemn them.

When it comes to the abortion thing, it's not just a small percentage of the GOP who believe the things their crazies have spouted; from what I'm reading/researching, they are things believed by the MAJORITY of the GOP, which shocks me. They WOULD unquestionably do away with Roe v Wade and make abortion illegal...which IS making it "murder". As for
Quote:

ALL MUSLIMS suffer from the small % who do terrible things and the large percentage who fail to properly condemn them.

Absolutely, unquestionably, unarguably TRUE. The analogy fits perfectly.
Quote:

Yes we have very strict rules. No more right wingers allowed in the country as we have enough of our own and we are on strict quotas.

I LOVE IT! You keep it that way, for your own sake, because I think we might just have a larger percentage of them and I think a lot of them might just possibly be WORSE than what you already have!
Quote:

Rap reminds me of the hysteria surrounding the introduction of the carbon tax, and how the end was nigh, of course espoused by rightwingers in the media. The day came and went. The world hasn't ended.

Ay-yup! The doom-and-gloom we hear from the ultra-right wingers, personified by our own Rap, is standard fare for RWAs and will never change. Any small thing will become the end of the world, then the end of the world will never materialize--which won't even slow them down, they'll find something ELSE that will be the end of the world.

Let's see, how does Australia feel about rich retirees:
Quote:

People who wish to retire in Australia must be over the age of 55. With the exception of your spouse, who does not need to over 55 to qualify, you cannot have any dependents. People who apply for the standard retirement visa will be awarded a temporary visa in the first instance, which is valid for four years. After this period has lapsed, the visa can then be renewed on a two year rolling basis. In order to qualify you will be required to demonstrate that you are in good health and have no previous criminal convictions.

If you are looking for a longer-term retirement visa you may choose to apply for a permanent retirement visa. In order to qualify for this you will need to adhere to stricter rules and regulations. Permanent Australian visas are viewed as investment visas and for this reason you will be required to demonstrate that you possess assets of a pre-determined value. This value will vary according to which area of Australia you wish to retire. However, a general rule of thumb is as follows:
High Growth Region: $750,000 worth of assets and an additional $500,000 for any dependent (spouse).
Low Growth Region: $500,0000 worth of assets and an additional $250,000 for any dependent (spouse).
You will be required to demonstrate that you have owned these assets for a minimum of two years prior to applying for a permanent Australian visa. http://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/retiring-abroad/best-places/a
ustralia-as-a-retirement-destination
/


Gee, I wonder how many of those " People who have worked their entire lives, very hard for their money" could meet those requirements? Especially given the vast number of our ultra-wealthy righties didn't "work their entire lives for their money". "The vast majority of average, private American citizens" couldn't meet those restrictions. But the ultra-wealthy no doubt could, so it's not about "average, private Americans" of any stripe.

Then there's
Quote:

Heavy gun restrictions
No capital punishment
Abortion is readily available (as is contraception)
Public health care system
High taxation that is graduated depending on income


Can anyone actually imagine our pampered rich righties loving that?

We've got FAR lighter gun restrictions; abortion is FAR more restricted; anyone really think they'd be happy with high taxation--especially GRADUATED high taxation?; and haven't they been bitching loudly about the mere concept of a public health care system?

The phraseology Rap uses is prime illustration of the insanity running wild on the right...it's at the point where I'm real close to not even reading his posts, and largely because people actually RESPOND to it as if it was sanity, or as if they had a chance in hell of helping him see reality.

"It's gonna get bad here". Real bad. (Of course the "bad" he's predicting won't happen, and the only "bad" will be the ugliness which will continue on the right and which WILL be bad for the country.

"....all twisted with spit and venom" (amusing as hell, since nobody but him IS)

"your lord and savor Barry" (he still can't give that one up, and never will)

"Who the hell will pay the taxes for all the Govt benefits then ?" (Those of us who've been paying all along, like via Social Security taxes, etc. The DIFFERENCE would be (and of course it won't because this whole thing is a crock of shit) that there wouldn't be all the rich folks who have a cap on how much they pay, yet no cap on how much they RECEIVE from SSI).

"they basically pay ALL the taxes here" (sheer, unadulterated INSANITY!)

"There's a key difference in what is EARNED and what one already OWNS." (Of course there is; what daddy owned makes cushy lives for those he leaves behind, with less taxes than the rest of us pay, among other things)

"There's more substance to the fears of those on the Right than ever there was for those on the Left." (Fear, fear, fear; it drives them, despite what they fear NEVER having come to fruition, nor will it)

"Neal Boortz" (Neal BOORTZ?! Good gawd, he IS one of those I'd pray ship out. People like that foment the very ugliness they attribute to the left, in every way they can dream of, so as to make money--which Rap will never, never accept, despite O'Reilly having had the balls to SAY IT!)

" some gang, or tribe," (the idea that any who vote left or support Obama are part of a "gang" or "tribe"--I mean seriously??)

" Folks born of an who love freedom, and they see that freedom being threatened by Obama" (Does anyone believe he can actually come up with a single "freedom" Obama has endangered??)

"Marxists loving Obama" (speaks for itself)

"woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)" (ditto)

Come ON people, why do some of you spend inordinate amounts of time refuting his most idiotic statements? Mike, your lengthy rebuttal of his idiocy means nothing to him and you know it, and the rest of us already KNOW it's idiocy, so what does it gain?

Okay, so I just wasted some time on my own probably useless post; I keep hoping against hope that those of you who take his bait gleefully will STOP encouraging him. He has nothing worthwhile to say when it comes to this stuff, and is only encouraged to get even more over the top when he gets further attention.

Sigh... I know, it's hopeless, but I can't stop trying.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, November 9, 2012 2:10 PM

STORYMARK







Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, November 9, 2012 4:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
But it was implemented here in Australia, and the threatened end of world scenarios meant to accompany it have not materialised. The Right love their fear mongering around any government policy implemented by the Left. Did a great job of stirring up the hysteria, for no apparent reason.



First, you're 'carbon output' is roughly 1 / 14th that of the United State's.
Second, you're already acclimated to Euro-socialist , so it's probably not so much a big deal.
And third... give it time.

The carbon tax does exactly nothing, save take from those who produce and line the pockets of govts. That's it. All the feel-goody crap you hear that it does ? Middle Earth is more real.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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