REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

GOP Senate candidate: ‘Legitimate rape’ rarely causes pregnancy.

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Thursday, August 23, 2012 08:53
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Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:13 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)




Quote:

Rep. Todd Akin, the newly-christened GOP Senate nominee in Missouri, said in an interview airing Sunday that “legitimate rape” rarely causes pregnancy.

Explaining his no-exceptions policy on abortions, Akin was asked why he opposes abortion even when the pregnancy is the result of rape.

“First of all, from what I understand from doctors, (pregnancy from rape) is really rare,” Akin told KTVI-TV in a clip posted to YouTube by the Democratic super PAC American Bridge. “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.”

Akin added: “But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”

Akin issued a statement Sunday afternoon saying he misspoke.

“In reviewing my off-the-cuff remarks, it’s clear that I misspoke in this interview and it does not reflect the deep empathy I hold for the thousands of women who are raped and abused every year,” he said. “I recognize that abortion, and particularly in the case of rape, is a very emotionally charged issue. But I believe deeply in the protection of all life and I do not believe that harming another innocent victim is the right course of action.”
Akin’s statement threatens to recast a Senate race in which he starts as the favorite, but national Republicans are concerned about his ability to execute a winning strategy. Akin won the GOP nomination two weeks ago — a result that Democrats hailed as a potential game-changer in a tough race for them.

Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) and national Democrats actually spent money in the GOP primary to help get Akin through it. That strategy, at least in this case, appears to be paying dividends.

McCaskill said she was outraged by Akin’s claim.

“It is beyond comprehension that someone can be so ignorant about the emotional and physical trauma brought on by rape,” McCaskill said in a statment. “The ideas that Todd Akin has expressed about the serious crime of rape and the impact on its victims are offensive.”

Akin’s claim is one that pops up occasionally in social conservative circles. A federal judge nominated by President Bush in the early 2000s had said similar things, as have state lawmakers in North Carolina and Pennsylvania.

Politicians and activists who espouse this view often suggest that women who haven’t been raped will claim to have been raped in order to obtain an abortion. An Idaho state lawmaker apologized earlier this year after urging doctors to make sure women who claimed they had been raped were sure of that fact.

Akin himself has suggested in the past that women may claim to be raped as a strategy during divorce proceedings.

Needless to say, this is territory that GOP leaders would rather not have Akin wander into. Getting into the particulars of “legitimate rape” (as opposed to what?) and the female reproductive system has the potential to make this a headache for the GOP and take the focus off of McCaskill and President Obama, who is unpopular in Missouri.

According to a 1996 study, approximately 32,000 pregnancies result from rape annually in the United States, and about 5 percent of rape victims are impregnated.

“Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency,” the study says, according to an abstract. “It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence.”

Akin is also staking out some of the most socially conservative territory possible on this issue. Missouri is pretty socially conservative, but even many Republicans believe in abortion exceptions for rape and incest. A recent Gallup poll showed just 20 percent of Americans believe in no exceptions for abortion.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/08/19/todd-akin-go
p-senate-candidate-legitimate-rape-rarely-causes-pregnancy
/



Wow. Just wow.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."


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Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:41 PM

WHOZIT


The Dems spent money to help get this nut the nomination, it seems to be money well spent because this guy's nutz. They better hope there evil plan works because the Dems are still going to take a bath this year.

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Sunday, August 19, 2012 12:57 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Geez, how to these backward, ignorant arses keep getting themselves elected. The body shuts itself down???? Sheesh, he is a jerk.

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Sunday, August 19, 2012 1:43 PM

HKCAVALIER


At least we can be damn sure he opposes Sharia Law being implemented in this country! In any form!

This has got to be the last gasp of a dying order. The social conservatives, across the globe, are losing ground by the minute.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, August 19, 2012 8:40 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


That's weird, a woman can get pregnant from rape as easily as she can from sex (note that even though it involves sperm and eggs and penetration I don't think of rape as sex because I view sex as mutually concentual. I suppose either could be called intercourse though because of the mechanics.

When I was little I had a friend named Anna. I liked to play at Anna's house where she and her mom lived. One day I asked where Anna's dad was. My mom said Anna didn't have a dad. Being a five year old who knew both her parents I found that extremely perplexing, but didn't ever say anything to Anna about it, it really didn't seem too important. I found out much later why Anna didn't have a dad. :(((((((

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, August 19, 2012 9:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
This has got to be the last gasp of a dying order. The social conservatives, across the globe, are losing ground by the minute.




All according to the gorram plan, lead em right off the cliff, and push those feckless Democrats off right after em while they stand there pointing, laughing and gloating.

-F

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Monday, August 20, 2012 3:42 AM

MAL4PREZ


OK, the whole "legitimate" rape term is horrifying and completely bogus, but I can see how a certain misogynistic cold-hearted ass-hat might work very hard to convince himself that most rapes are not "really" rapes. You know, because then he'd have to admit that there's a power imbalance and gender-based abuse and men need to point the finger at themselves. (Something this jerk clearly has no intention of doing.) It's fucked up, but I can see where this thought originated in his psyche.

If I'm feeling very generous, I can even see where the phrase "legitimate rape" might have been a very poor choice of words but someone who meant to communicate a less harsh idea. So, maybe - MAYBE - there's a chance these words could classify as something "mis-spoke".

But: "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down". WTF? If this was mis-spoken, what in the world did he really mean to say? I can't even imagine where this idea came from, and what else he could possibly have meant. As insane as it is, but I see no other possibilities. What he said is exactly what he meant.

Yeah ladies, there's no need for unwanted pregnancy. Your body will get rid of it for you, and if it doesn't, you must really *want* the baby, right? Ignore your own ideas, choices, wants and needs. If you're pregnant you want to be. Now shut up and give birth.

It's almost Biblical in its madness. The best woman in the Bible is the one who gives birth without ever having sex. Talk about an ideal! Clean yet fertile! Now Akin has another level for us to rise up to: we don't need to make decisions for ourselves. Our bodies will do it for us, so our heads can remain properly empty and wombs properly full. How pure we'll be!

Good thing I don't own a pitchfork. I'd be taking to the streets.

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Monday, August 20, 2012 3:55 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
That's weird, a woman can get pregnant from rape as easily as she can from sex (note that even though it involves sperm and eggs and penetration I don't think of rape as sex because I view sex as mutually concentual. I suppose either could be called intercourse though because of the mechanics.


Dude said what he said, now he has to live with it. I don't see the big deal...its not like he's claiming to be a Native American. Dude opposes all abortions and that is a perfectly legitimate position.

I don't agree with him...I myself oppose abortion except when the life of the mother is at stake or when the child is viable (which the Court needs to reexamine), or when the child has a medical condition that is incredibly severe, or in instances of some (but not all) instances of rape.

However, I do understand the 'all or nothing argument' especially when it comes to rape. If you believe that a fetus is a child then allowing abortion of that child would amount to commiting a harmful act against a person innocent of any crime. You should no more harm the unborn child of a rapist then you should allow that child to be born and then jailed for his father's crime. At least that's the argument...and it makes sense on its own merits. Have your debate on that issue. The rights of the child vs. the mental anguish to the mother.

I've never understood the destructive need (on any side of any issue and we're all guilty of this) to take perfectly good and reasonable arguments and muddle them up with bad arguments based on absurd factual allegations (like saying your opponant wants dirty water or to starve children or put people in chains just because they don't support your legislation or take a different view on the issues).

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Monday, August 20, 2012 4:16 AM

HERO


Quote:

If I'm feeling very generous, I can even see where the phrase "legitimate rape" might have been a very poor choice of words but someone who meant to communicate a less harsh idea. So, maybe - MAYBE - there's a chance these words could classify as something "mis-spoke".


I deal with rape cases once in a while and thank goodness not more then that because most are as sickening as they are heartbreaking. Legally rape is the highest form of sexual assault. In Ohio we go from Aggravated Rape, Rape, Gross Sexual Imposition, Sexual Imposition in order from worst to least. There is also 'consensual' rape...ie the person lacks the mental ability to consent so even if they are all for it...its still rape (children, mentally ill, passed out drunk, etc). In short rape comes in a lot of flavors and in my experiance they are all bad.

That said...I've had to tell women "regret is not rape" a number of times. I've also had to tell them "we can't prove it". Worst of all is not when I tell them either of those things but when they hear a Jury say 'Not Guilty' (its never happened on one of my cases cause I don't lose rape case).

I think that there is a degree of bias against victims that comes in rape cases. If a woman's body biologically responds to her attacker then there is an incorrect assumption that she...on some level...allowed it to happen and 'you can't rape the willing.' I've worked with DOVE and other rape crisis experts and victims assistance advocates and I've seen this kind of bias taint juries and destroy marriages. Its very sad.

Regardless of how this Senate race turns out I think this poor guy needs to reexamine his views. I think his perfectly understanable advocacy against abortion is standing in the way of his empathy for rape victims. I think that his heart is probably in the right place, I'm sure he is strongly opposed to rape as are most people...but his head has clearly gotten in the way.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Monday, August 20, 2012 4:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
OK, the whole "legitimate" rape term is horrifying and completely bogus, but I can see how a certain misogynistic cold-hearted ass-hat might work very hard to convince himself that most rapes are not "really" rapes. You know, because then he'd have to admit that there's a power imbalance and gender-based abuse and men need to point the finger at themselves. (Something this jerk clearly has no intention of doing.) It's fucked up, but I can see where this thought originated in his psyche.

If I'm feeling very generous, I can even see where the phrase "legitimate rape" might have been a very poor choice of words but someone who meant to communicate a less harsh idea. So, maybe - MAYBE - there's a chance these words could classify as something "mis-spoke".

But: "the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down". WTF? If this was mis-spoken, what in the world did he really mean to say? I can't even imagine where this idea came from, and what else he could possibly have meant. As insane as it is, but I see no other possibilities. What he said is exactly what he meant.

Yeah ladies, there's no need for unwanted pregnancy. Your body will get rid of it for you, and if it doesn't, you must really *want* the baby, right? Ignore your own ideas, choices, wants and needs. If you're pregnant you want to be. Now shut up and give birth.

It's almost Biblical in its madness. The best woman in the Bible is the one who gives birth without ever having sex. Talk about an ideal! Clean yet fertile! Now Akin has another level for us to rise up to: we don't need to make decisions for ourselves. Our bodies will do it for us, so our heads can remain properly empty and wombs properly full. How pure we'll be!

Good thing I don't own a pitchfork. I'd be taking to the streets.




Exactly. Sure, maybe he "misspoke" about the "legitimate rape" bit; Whoopi had her "rape-rape" defense of Roman Polanski, after all...

But where the hell do these morons get the notion that you can't get a woman pregnant by raping her?

And is that REALLY the message they want to send to boys and young men? "Hey, if you really wannna get some, and you don't want to worry about pregnancy, just rape 'em, cause that just shuts that whole thing down!"

Once again, this is the GOP putting the onus on women, making it the woman's fault if she gets pregnant from being raped, because if she does, then she must have really wanted it.

Why is it that the people who are the most vehemently opposed to sex education are the ones who so, so desperately NEED some fucking sex education?!



You're going to hear a lot of conservatives say they don't agree with this asshole, and don't support him. But just watch how much money the Koch brothers and others send his way in an effort to try to unseat Claire McCaskill, and then try to tell me this isn't really part of the GOP agenda.

After all, it's not like this is the first time they've trotted out this defense of rape.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, August 20, 2012 4:45 AM

MAL4PREZ


See if you can believe this one: Akin is on the House Committee on Science. Oh yes he is.

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Monday, August 20, 2012 4:53 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Once again, this is the GOP putting the onus on women, making it the woman's fault if she gets pregnant from being raped, because if she does, then she must have really wanted it.


Yep. That's the real slip-up here: Akin let everyone know what he really believes -- that women are to blame for everything, and what's happening in her brain and soul is completely unimportant to him. Akin and his ilk seems to be after full control over every woman's womb, and thinks she ought to have nothing to say in the matter.

Thoughtful posts, Hero, and I am absolutely fine with you or anyone else not liking abortion. I understand your argument and support your right to never have an abortion.

However, your dislike does not overrule a woman's right to control her own body. And I'm stopping there, because I feel very strongly about this, not going to change my mind, and nothing I say will ever reach someone who thinks they can remove such a basic freedom from another human being. (Not saying you take it that far, Hero. I don't know if you do or not. Don't really want to know, because I fear the worst.)

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Monday, August 20, 2012 4:55 AM

MAL4PREZ


dbl damn

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Monday, August 20, 2012 5:23 AM

JONGSSTRAW


People, especially politicians, ought to STFU when they don't know what they're talking about. I don't know this turd, but he sounds like a complete idiot. He should be publically reprimanded in the House, and he should be removed from the ballot as a candidate. I'm confident that even the toothless trogladytic Missouri Republican party leaders can find another sheep sodomizer to run against the incumbent Democrat.

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Monday, August 20, 2012 5:43 AM

STORYMARK


Gee, another front on the "imaginary" GOP war on women.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, August 20, 2012 6:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Jong, first you have to convince them they DON'T know what they're talking about...and what a totally futile effort that would be!

Although I must admit, you did a pretty good job:
Quote:

He should be publically reprimanded in the House, and he should be removed from the ballot as a candidate. I'm confident that even the toothless trogladytic Missouri Republican party leaders can find another sheep sodomizer to run against the incumbent Democrat.
I would disagree, however, about them finding another candidate. They COULD, but the situation is such that the ultra-conservatives have come out of the closet and are all but running the show at the GOP, so probably not.

He made the classic political mistake of saying what he actually believes. Apparently even Romney/Ryan knows he went too far (tho' who knows what they actually BELIEVE?)
Quote:

The Romney campaign quickly distanced itself from controversial comments about rape made by Republican Senate candidate Todd Akin of Missouri, as the Democrats tried to make the remarks stick to the GOP ticket.

The Romney campaign flatly rejected the comments. "Gov. Romney and Congressman Ryan disagree with Mr. Akin's statement, and a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape," the campaign said in a brief statement. Romney, in an interview with the National Review, later called the comments "insulting" and "inexcusable."

Good for them for SAYING it, but I have my doubts about their actual beliefs.

I'm guessing Akins gets some of his "facts" from articles such as this:[
Quote:

A woman's body may be unconsciously selective about sperm, allowing some men's to progress to pregnancy but killing off the chances of less suitable matches, an Australian researcher said Wednesday.

University of Adelaide professor Sarah Robertson said her research suggested that sperm contains "signalling molecules" that activate immunity changes in a woman so her body accepts it.

But some apparently healthy sperm failed to activate these changes, leading to the suggestion that the female system can be "choosy" about its biological mate, she said.

"It's rather like a two-way dance," Robertson said.

"The male provides information that increases the chances of conception and progression to pregnancy, but the female body has a quality control system which needs convincing that his sperm is compatible.

"That's where the dance can go wrong with some couples - if the male signals are not strong enough, or if the female system is too 'choosy'."

Robertson said sperm was more likely to fail if the woman had not previously been exposed to that man's semen for at least three months.

"We used to think that if a couple couldn't get pregnant, and the man's semen test was normal, the problem lay with the woman. But it appears this is not always the case," Robertson said.

The researchers plan to continue their work, which they hope will lead to improved treatments for infertility and miscarriages. http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/technology/women-s-bodies-choosy-about-sp
erm-1.487820

Obviously this has little, if anything, to do with rape, but I'm guessing an idiot like this could have concluded...well, you know. I'd like him to give us the names of the "doctors" who convinced him a woman's body would reject the sperm of a rapist.
Quote:

However, your dislike does not overrule a woman's right to control her own body. And I'm stopping there, because I feel very strongly about this, not going to change my mind, and nothing I say will ever reach someone who thinks they can remove such a basic freedom from another human being.
I'm going to try to stop there too; as pretty much everyone here knows, I'm downright RABID about the fact that we are being taken back to the 19th century on this issue, with men at the helm making the decision.


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Monday, August 20, 2012 7:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


It's to laugh:
Quote:

A campaign flub by a Republican Senate candidate shifted the political focus Monday to abortion and women's rights, as certain GOP nominee Mitt Romney and his conservative running mate faced a town hall-style meeting in New Hampshire.

The comment by Akin, who won Missouri's Republican primary to take on incumbent Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill in November, drew immediate criticism from Democrats and some Republicans.

In Massachusetts, U.S. Sen. Scott Brown called for Akin to drop out of the Missouri Senate race because of the "outrageous, inappropriate and wrong" comments.

"There is no place in our public discourse for this type of offensive thinking," said Brown, a moderate Republican in a tough re-election battle against Democrat Elizabeth Warren. "Not only should he apologize, but I believe Rep. Akin's statement was so far out of bounds that he should resign the nomination for U.S. Senate in Missouri."

The Akin statement has forced the Romney campaign to distance itself from the GOP candidate in a key race, and also declare a definitive stance on one of the most volatile political issues of the day.

The issue is particularly sensitive for Ryan, a devout Catholic and staunch anti-abortion politician who has previously expressed opposition to abortion in all cases except when the life of the mother is endangered.

A Romney-Ryan campaign official, speaking on condition of not being identified, confirmed to CNN that Ryan's personal view opposes abortion in the case of rape. The campaign official said Ryan's stance differed with Romney's view, which was described in the statement Sunday and is the formal position of the GOP presidential ticket.

Republican colleagues also criticized Akin.

"As a pro-life conservative, a husband, and a father of two young women, I find Representative Akin's remarks to be offensive and reprehensible," said Rep. Denny Rehberg, a Republican candidate for a Montana seat in the U.S. Senate this year. "There is no such thing as a 'legitimate rape.' I condemn Representative Akin's statements in the strongest possible terms."

A spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Campaign, Brian Walsh, said Akin "did the right thing by quickly correcting the record and acknowledging that he misspoke."

The abortion focus comes in a week when the Romney team wanted to sharpen its focus on economic issues in the run-up to the Republican National Convention, which begins on August 27 in Tampa, Florida.

Now, Romney and Ryan will face questions about the volatile abortion issue and women's rights, giving President Barack Obama and Democrats an opportunity to further strengthen their advantage with women voters -- a demographic that already favors them, according to the polls.

Akin, a six-term U.S. congressman, touted his socially conservative values on the primary campaign trail.

He opposes abortion in all circumstances and has said he also opposes the morning after pill, which he equates to abortion.

McCaskill responded almost immediately to her opponent's comments Sunday, writing on Twitter: "As a woman & former prosecutor who handled 100s of rape cases, I'm stunned by Rep Akin's comments about victims this AM."

Akin was one of the first members of Congress to join the Tea Party Caucus in 2010 and has easily won re-election in recent years. The lawmaker has raised a notable $2.2 million this cycle, as of July 18.

Before the new controversy, the top nonpartisan political handicappers had rated the Missouri race a "toss-up."

It's to laugh because they just KEEP shooting themselves in the foot. As I see it, the 2010 election and rise of the Tea Party gave the Repubs such power that they've gotten giddy and have been pushing their agenda as hard as possible while they've got that power. They've gone way over the line, and keep doing so. I think they misunderstood badly how they got that power. They seem to think the majority of the country shares all their vaues and their agenda, and I sincerely hope will be disabused of that notion by the upcoming elections.

I do love that it's put Missouri in play, and hope they keep on shooting themselves in the foot by saying what they really believe, so the country can see the dangers they represent. It's also endlessly amusing that some of them are smart enough to publicly declare their "disgust", etc., at one of their colleagues saying what I am convinced many of them really believe. Never a good thing for a politician to speak his actual beliefs. I hope they all keep doing it.

But I still can't believe this is happening. Do they really believe it will stop abortions?!? For the first time in history, women have the right to choose what they do with their bodies and their lives, and they're doing everything they can (thus far, quite effectively) to stop it, and to return abortion to the back alleys and clothes hangers, like that will be some kind of improvement! Then again, tho' they'd rather die than say it, I'm sure there are quite a few who believe if a woman dies or becomes sterile from a back-street abortion, she deserves it. Gawd they sicken me. We DEFINITELY need more women in power!!!




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Monday, August 20, 2012 7:30 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I'm still having a real hard time trying to grasp how a man, any man, could say "legitimate rape." I can't ever even recall hearing that terminology used during my 50+ years of life. "Legitimate rape"... it compels one to consider the absolutely insane concept of ...well what would ya call it?...NON-legitimate rape? ILL-legitimate rape? It's long past time for Republicans to get out of the sex business. There's yet to be one that speaks with anything resembling any understanding of the plight women have faced over the generations. From the Triangle Shirt factory fire to Roe-v-Wade, they're mostly all utterly clueless and embarassingly bad Jimmy Swaggert wannabees.

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Monday, August 20, 2012 7:32 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
People, especially politicians, ought to STFU when they don't know what they're talking about.



Problem with that is, they'd have to recognize that there are subjects where they don't know what the hell they're talking about. I've little doubt that this dolt actually really believes this to be true, and therefore had no inkling he shouldn't talk about it, because he's only saying something he "knows" to be "true".

Quote:


I don't know this turd, but he sounds like a complete idiot. He should be publically reprimanded in the House, and he should be removed from the ballot as a candidate.



Not sure of the mechanisms for removing him from the ballot, but probably not possibly this late in the game unless he dies, withdraws on his own, or is convicted of some "high crime" or other.

I doubt he'll be convinced to withdraw, because he thinks he's got a legitimate shot. McCaskill's vulnerable, after all. I'm honestly not sure what the GOP heirarchy's best play is in this case. Do they actively back the guy, bad as that will look, in hopes that they can inundate the airwaves with enough money to swamp any opposition? Or do they quietly back away and write off that Senate seat and let it stay in Democratic hands? Or do they try a third option and back a third-party or write-in candidate?

Backing this idiot might help them win that seat, but it will be used to tar every single congressional race and it will be used against Romney as well, just because they're in the same party together.

If I were a GOP operative, I'd be slowly backing away, pressuring the guy to withdraw on his own, promising him that he won't get a single penny of party money or a scintilla of party help, all while looking just about anywhere for either a replacement candidate or a viable third-party candidate sympathetic to conservative ideals (Libertarian instead of Green party, for instance).

Meanwhile, Claire McCaskill has all the opportunity she ever needed to lock up the women's vote and to raise tons of money off this ass-hat's idiocy.

Quote:

I'm confident that even the toothless trogladytic Missouri Republican party leaders can find another sheep sodomizer to run against the incumbent Democrat.



Probably true, but this is the guy they thought was the BEST one to go up against her!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, August 20, 2012 10:00 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Akin let everyone know what he really believes -- that women are to blame for everything...Akin and his ilk seems to be after full control over every woman's womb, and thinks she ought to have nothing to say in the matter.


Now you are the one making a hysterical unsupported argument.

Akin simply let the abortion argument color his thought process on the issue of rape. Absent abortion his feeling on rape is likely as strong as anyone...if not stronger since Conservatives tend to be a bit harder on crime and punishment then liberals.

Also Pro Life people have never been about control...opposing abortion is about responsibility and morality. Oh and its not about the woman, its about the child...which is why the rape argument gets so messy and tripped up Mr. Akin.

I think you and I agree that murdering a child is a wrong and immoral act. They simply believe that a fetus is a child.

Where is the line...child-not a child. Can a child be terminated seconds after birth? What about seconds before birth? If not, when? For liberals and Pro Abortioners...when is that magic moment? And as soon as you find it explain why not one second before that? I can't answer that question. Its a child here...but not an immeasurable instant before? The argument goes all the way backwards from birth to conception. I can't answer that question, so I must side with life. My friend...that is the Pro Life argument.

Quote:


I feel very strongly about this, not going to change my mind, and nothing I say will ever reach someone who thinks they can remove such a basic freedom from another human being. (Not saying you take it that far, Hero. I don't know if you do or not. Don't really want to know, because I fear the worst.)


The Supreme Court beat me to it. In Roe vs. Wade (1973...maybe you've heard of it) the Supreme Court ruled that the State's interest in preserving life outweighs the woman's right to privacy. The Court balances the two interests and the dividing line is viability...once the child is viable the State's interest win (which is why you can't abort a baby at the last minute or 'on the way out'). Since 1973 science has moved that line of viability back and at some point it will go all the way back to conception...so watch out, abortion will be illegal in the future unless you can get someone to overturn Roe. Oh, and if it will be illegal tomorrow...why not today? If the limits of science are all that's holding us up...is it fair to then ignore the moral, ethical, and legal issues that arise? Tell that to a slave in the 1700s..."slavery is ok for now because someday science will prove that there is no biological distinction between the races that makes white men superior".

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Monday, August 20, 2012 10:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I'm still having a real hard time trying to grasp how a man, any man, could say "legitimate rape." I can't ever even recall hearing that terminology used during my 50+ years of life. "Legitimate rape"... it compels one to consider the absolutely insane concept of ...well what would ya call it?...NON-legitimate rape? ILL-legitimate rape? It's long past time for Republicans to get out of the sex business. There's yet to be one that speaks with anything resembling any understanding of the plight women have faced over the generations. From the Triangle Shirt factory fire to Roe-v-Wade, they're mostly all utterly clueless and embarassingly bad Jimmy Swaggert wannabees.



Before I respond to Jongsstraw's comment, I just wanna say...

WTF ?? Apparently, women are even more powerful than anyone knew! With the ability to self abort pregnancies which occur from 'legitimate' rape That's super hero power, right there. Yes, The Force is strong with them... but this ? Wow.

Bizarre, unnecessary, ignorant, odd, dumbfounding, ... did I mention bizarre ?

How does a grown human even THINK like that ??

Though I do have a guess as to what in the HELL he was talking about , with his bumbling use of the word 'legitimate'. Maybe what he was trying to do was distinguish between 'rape', the forceful engaging in sexual conduct with another with out their consent, and statutory rape, which can occur where 1 participant is below the legal age of consent. Even if there's a willing partner ( say 15 1/2 yr old girl, in a state where the age of consent is 16 years, and her 17 yr old boyfriend )it's still considered a rape.

But that's not what Mr Aiken said. Nor did he even TRY to elaborate, which tells me that he didn't have a damn CLUE of what he was saying, which means ( as is the case w/ ANY politician ) he should have just shut the hell up and deflected the question, outright.

But he didn't.

" Wow " is right.

Mal4Prez is right on this one. The comments by Aiken leave the impression that he believes what he said, and that women who are raped...

A - Either really wanted it, or had it comin' to them, so in most cases, it's not REALLY rape, just some silly misunderstanding. And hey.. who can blame the guy for that?

OR

B - Even if there IS a legitimate rape, where the woman really wasn't into the guy, or in the really rare case where she was out alone ( and if she's alone, she's probably asking for it ) and gets attacked by a stranger, then it's all good, because if she thinks really really hard, she can make the pregnancy go away !

Of course, if this knowledge got out, Planned Parenthood would be out of business in a week!

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 20, 2012 10:11 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I'm still having a real hard time trying to grasp how a man, any man, could say "legitimate rape." I can't ever even recall hearing that terminology used during my 50+ years of life. "Legitimate rape"... it compels one to consider the absolutely insane concept of ...well what would ya call it?...NON-legitimate rape?


If you recall Whoppi Goldberg got in trouble by making a similar distinction bewteen rape and "rape-rape" when talking about a movie director who fled the country after getting accused (and later convicted of) drugging and raping a twelve-year old child.

"Legitmate rape" could mean a lot of things. I think he means rape where the person is having non-consensual sex with an unwilling partner. Other kinds...child rape, statutory rape (15'll get you 20 even if your only 17). False accusations is another possibility...kinda goes hand in hand with the "regret" rapes. Then there are the weird ones...like where the dude can't perform or finish, or they are married, or somebody was misusing a turkey baster...

But your right...its an odd phrase.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Monday, August 20, 2012 10:18 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
But that's not what Mr Aiken said. Nor did he even TRY to elaborate, which tells me that he didn't have a damn CLUE of what he was saying...


Hmmm...but you seem to know what he was saying. But I think you are right. If you examine the whole context...and it was unscripted...

Is it possible he was trying to emphasize the word rape in order to give it a higher meaning rather then diminish it? And he simply chose the wrong word? Yes, that's probably it. He was trying to make "rape" even more serious and meaningful.

Poor guy just picked the wrong word and got raped for it, pardon the pun...but then again, he deserved it...look at how he dressed up his language.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Monday, August 20, 2012 10:35 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Hero - I think what we have here is a case where this person, Aiken, half remembers hearing something a doctor said, concerning women, and abortions and such, but simply wasn't paying attention. ( And now here I go, doing the same thing... ) As I understand it, most of the time when a woman miscarries, it's her first time being pregnant. My 'guess' is that Mr Aiken heard some doctor talking about spontaneous abortion, and his ears perk up when he hears that word, so he files that away in his memory banks. Of course, the doctor likely DID say something along the lines that, when a embryo is spontaneously aborted, it's the body's way of 'shutting down ' the pregnancy.

( I'm really really giving this guy Aiken a LOT of wiggle room here, trust me )

So maybe he thought he remembered something about 'abortions' and how the woman's body can and does do this on its own, and just cobbled one bit of info along with something else, and voila ! Woman can spontaneously abort unwanted pregnancies !!



I know, it's connecting a ton of not too close dots , to come up w/ that one.

This is all just my guess work here, having talked to a few idiots in my life. To be honest, I doubt this guy even knows enough to be able to explain what the hell he was thinking... he's a politician, after all.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 20, 2012 10:37 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of course, if this knowledge got out, Planned Parenthood would be out of business in a week!



Don't you know, we can shoot sperm-killing laser beams of death from our ovaries. Be afraid, be very afraid!

Hero - that's the talk I'm not having, because it's been done in detail several times, more than once on this site. It goes no where and changes no one's mind. I disagree -- leave it at that, and keep your so-called small govt laws out of my uterus or my lasers will be pointed at you, pal.

*zap!*

*zap!*


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Monday, August 20, 2012 11:20 AM

HKCAVALIER


Oh my god Mal4,

YOU'RE ONE OF THEM!?!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, August 20, 2012 12:16 PM

WHOZIT


Heard him try to defend himself on Sean Hannity this afternoon, even I can't defend this douche.

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Monday, August 20, 2012 12:19 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Heard him try to defend himself on Sean Hannity this afternoon, even I can't defend this douche.



There IS no defense, but what did he say ? Did he mention anything I said ? Or was he just pitching the standard " I misspoke " crap, that any politician parrots, when ever they step knee deep into it ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 20, 2012 12:31 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Heard him try to defend himself on Sean Hannity this afternoon, even I can't defend this douche.



There IS no defense, but what did he say ? Did he mention anything I said ? Or was he just pitching the standard " I misspoke " crap, that any politician parrots, when ever they step knee deep into it ?


All I can remember is yelling SHUT THE FUCK UP!! At the radio.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal




" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall



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Monday, August 20, 2012 12:34 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I'm still having a real hard time trying to grasp how a man, any man, could say "legitimate rape." I can't ever even recall hearing that terminology used during my 50+ years of life. "Legitimate rape"... it compels one to consider the absolutely insane concept of ...well what would ya call it?...NON-legitimate rape?


If you recall Whoppi Goldberg got in trouble by making a similar distinction bewteen rape and "rape-rape" when talking about a movie director who fled the country after getting accused (and later convicted of) drugging and raping a twelve-year old child.

"Legitmate rape" could mean a lot of things. I think he means rape where the person is having non-consensual sex with an unwilling partner. Other kinds...child rape, statutory rape (15'll get you 20 even if your only 17). False accusations is another possibility...kinda goes hand in hand with the "regret" rapes. Then there are the weird ones...like where the dude can't perform or finish, or they are married, or somebody was misusing a turkey baster...

But your right...its an odd phrase.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012



Whoopi has said her fair share of dumb things over the years, but I tend to give her a pass on them. Many of the episodes she appeared in on STNG were the best of the series, and she was so good in them that I can never muster up any ill feelings towards her.

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Monday, August 20, 2012 12:45 PM

MAL4PREZ


OMG. Might this be the first time EVER that everyone on RWED agrees about something? OK, maybe not on broader issues, but it seems that every poster so far is 100% behind the douche-ness of Akin.

I didn't think I'd ever see the day.

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Monday, August 20, 2012 12:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Good thing I don't own a pitchfork. I'd be taking to the streets.


Would you like to, we have pre-order discounts!
Interested in perhaps bulk pricing, hmm ?
Or perhaps a package deal, we offer an excellent and extensive selection of torches you know!


-F

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Monday, August 20, 2012 1:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
OMG. Might this be the first time EVER that everyone on RWED agrees about something? OK, maybe not on broader issues, but it seems that every poster so far is 100% behind the douche-ness of Akin.

I didn't think I'd ever see the day.



AND, on the same day that Augusta National admitted women as club members.

Strange days, indeed.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 20, 2012 1:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


If I were a GOP operative, I'd be slowly backing away, pressuring the guy to withdraw on his own, promising him that he won't get a single penny of party money or a scintilla of party help, all while looking just about anywhere for either a replacement candidate or a viable third-party candidate sympathetic to conservative ideals (Libertarian instead of Green party, for instance).




Looks like I got it pretty close.

John Cornyn, the GOP's "paymaster" who decides what races get national money behind them from the party, says not a penny for Akin, and urges him to withdraw. Karl Rove's Crossroads superpac is pulling all ads and funding from his race, too, and urging him to withdraw.

Looks like he's got 'til 5pm tomorrow to withdraw, else he has to go to court to get his name off the ballot. The GOP is running from this guy as far and fast as they can.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, August 20, 2012 2:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Another reason the GOP is running away from Akin so fast...



Trying to put some distance between him and Paul Ryan!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, August 20, 2012 3:19 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And now reports are that not only are the GOP telling Akin to withdraw his Senate bid, but some are calling for him to resign his House seat. Others are just demanding he be removed from the Science Committee on which he serves.






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Politicians say stupid things all the time. Joe Biden, anyone ? But unlike Biden, Akin has apologized and stated that he used the wrong words at the wrong time ... yeah, what ever.

" Rape is never legitimate. It's an evil act committed by violent predators ", Akin said.

I guess he really meant what he said THIS time.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 3:02 AM

REDREAD

The poster formerly known as yinyang.


Other Things Missouri Representative Todd Akin Believes To Be True About The Uterus, Besides Its Ability To "Shut Down" A Legitimate Rape:

Quote:

• The average uterus is "cash only."

• When provoked or frightened, a uterus emits a high-pitched scream that instantly stuns its attacker. (Note: very useful in conjunction with the ovarian lasers.)

• The natural enemies of the uterus are the locust, the hawk, the carpenter ant, and the witch.

• It is possible to use a uterus to determine the nearest source of fresh water or magnetic North but not both.

read more: http://www.theawl.com/2012/08/todd-akin-uterus-facts




||| Blog post explaining my name change: http://www.fireflyfans.net/blog.aspx?bid=9414 |||

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 8:18 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Akin says he won't withdraw from the race. Deadline for him to withdraw is a little under 4 hours.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 9:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Gawd it's good to hear Raptor's opinion on this. Much as we disagree, I'd like to think most people here are at least SOMEWHAT aware of reality on at least some important issuesThe thing is, his comments were hardly some kind never-before-heard gaffe. Arguments like his have cropped up again and again on the right over the past quarter century and the idea that trauma is a form of birth control continues to be promulgated by anti-abortion forces that seek to outlaw all abortions, even in cases of rape or incest. The push for a no-exceptions anti-abortion policy has for decades gone hand in hand with efforts to downplay the frequency with which rape- or incest-related pregnancies occur, and even to deny that they happen, at all. In other words, it's not just Akin singing this tune.
Quote:

Take Christian Life Resources, an educational site, for example. It reprints an 1999 article ( http://www.christianliferesources.com/article/rape-pregnancies-are-rar
e-461
]) on the topic that seeks to make the same distinction between categories of rape as did Akin, and for the same reason. Wrote John C. Willke -- a physician who in the 1980s and early 1990s was president of the National Right to Life Committee -- in the piece, originally published in Life Issues Connector:
Quote:

When pro-lifers speak of rape pregnancies, we should commonly use the phrase "forcible rape" or "assault rape," for that specifies what we're talking about. Rape can also be statutory. Depending upon your state law, statutory rape can be consensual, but we're not addressing that here .... Assault rape pregnancies are extremely rare.

.... What is certainly one of the most important reasons why a rape victim rarely gets pregnant, and that's physical trauma. Every woman is aware that stress and emotional factors can alter her menstrual cycle. To get and stay pregnant a woman's body must produce a very sophisticated mix of hormones. Hormone production is controlled by a part of the brain that is easily influenced by emotions. There's no greater emotional trauma that can be experienced by a woman than an assault rape. This can radically upset her possibility of ovulation, fertilization, implantation and even nurturing of a pregnancy. So what further percentage reduction in pregnancy will this cause? No one knows, but this factor certainly cuts this last figure by at least 50 percent and probably more.

An edited version of Willke's article appears on the website of Physicians for Life group under the headline, "Assault Rape Pregnancies Are Rare." The most medically ignorant paragraphs have been excised from this version of the story, though the headline has been strengthened to make the point plain.

The canard had been floating around the right long before Willke wrote his piece. In 1995, 71-year-old North Carolina state Rep. Henry Aldridge gained national notoriety after telling the N.C. House Appropriations Committee, "The facts show that people who are raped -- who are truly raped -- the juices don't flow, the body functions don't work and they don't get pregnant. Medical authorities agree that this is a rarity, if ever." ( http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Lawmaker-Says-Rape-Can-t-Cause-Preg
nancy-3036411.php
])

His argument came during a debate over "a proposal to eliminate a state abortion fund for poor women," according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

In 1980, attorney James Leon Holmes wrote, in a letter arguing for a constitutional ban on abortion, "Concern for rape victims is a red herring because conceptions from rape occur with approximately the same frequency as snowfall in Miami." ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32206-2004Jul6.html])

He later apologized for his comment and was successfully nominated to a federal judgeship by George W. Bush in 2004, the inside-Washington controversy over his remarks notwithstanding. Today he serves as the chief judge of the Eastern District of Arkansas.

In Pennsylvania, Republican state Rep. Stephen Freind asserted in 1988 that women rarely get pregnant from rape, because violent attacks cause temporary infertility. Reported the Philadelphia Daily News:
Quote:

The odds that a woman who is raped will get pregnant are "one in millions and millions and millions," said state Rep. Stephen Freind, R-Delaware County, the Legislature's leading abortion foe.

The reason, Freind said, is that the traumatic experience of rape causes a woman to "secrete a certain secretion" that tends to kill sperm.

Efforts to outlaw abortion and legislatively narrow the definition of rape to only the most violent assaults go hand in hand, as abortion opponents believe rape exceptions to abortion bans will be exploited by women to obtain abortions in an environment in which it is otherwise outlawed. Rape, therefore, needs to be defined differently -- to be defined more narrowly and to be defined, most critically, as something that does not result in pregnancy.

You could see these conceptual gymnastics at work on the ground in Idaho earlier this year.
Quote:

The sponsor of an Idaho mandatory ultrasound bill, state Sen. Chuck Winder, made some highly controversial comments Monday during his closing arguments, suggesting women might falsely use rape as an excuse to obtain an abortion.

Just before the Idaho's Senate passed the bill, which requires woman to have an ultrasound prior to obtaining an abortion, opponents of the bill pointed out that it makes no exception for rape victims, incest victims or women in medical emergencies.

Winder, a Republican from Boise, responded to those concerns by raising the question of whether women understand when they have been raped.

"Rape and incest was used as a reason to oppose this," Winder said on the Senate floor. "I would hope that when a woman goes in to a physician with a rape issue, that physician will indeed ask her about perhaps her marriage, was this pregnancy caused by normal relations in a marriage or was it truly caused by a rape. I assume that's part of the counseling that goes on."

The most prominent example of the peculiar effort to downplay rape in order to decrease access to abortion cropped up in the U.S. Congress earlier this year. Sponsored by New Jersey Republican Chris Smith, H.R. 3, the "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act," would have rewritten the rape exception in federal abortion-funding bans from the language in the Hyde Amendment. Henceforth, according to the bill, there would be exemptions only for something called "forcible rape." (Presumably, this is the same thing Willke called "assault rape" and Akin called "legitimate rape," as opposed to what Willke called "consensual" "statutory" rape.) After a public outcry, Smith retreated from his first draft of the bill and reinstituted the Hyde language, though an additional provision was added later to clarify that the bill will "not allow the Federal Government to subsidize abortions in cases of statutory rape." Akin and Republican vice-presidential nominee Paul Ryan were co-sponsors of the bill, along with 225 others. The bill passed the House with all Republicans and 16 Democrats voting for it, but then died in the Democrat-controlled Senate. President Obama had pledged to veto the bill. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/a-canard-that-will
-not-die-legitimate-rape-doesnt-cause-pregnancy/261303/

I'm surprised nobody here has yet heard about this, as it's been prominently reported in the news.

The point is: THIS IS WHAT THEY TRULY BELIEVE. Obviously, it's because they NEED to believe it, rationalize it, explain it, whatever, but there is definitely a segment of the Republican Party which believes this is true, and has been going back as far as the '80s (or more, who knows?), and others have expressed exactly what Akin did. In public. In Congress. And one person who said it was nominated by Bush for a judgeship, and is now chief judge of the Eastern District of Arkansas, for gawd's sake! It's very, very real.

It is in no way a case of a "Poor guy just picked the wrong word"--he made the mistake of saying what some actually believe, and for once having the press pick up on it and make it public. Of course they're trying to shut him up, it's something they don't want the American public to know, but that's all there is to their drive to get him to withdraw.
Quote:

" Rape is never legitimate. It's an evil act committed by violent predators ", Akin said. I guess he really meant what he said THIS time.
Sadly, you're free to believe that if you need to, but the fact is that's politics; he knows from all the fuss that he's said something publicly that the party doesn't want said, so he's backtracking, nothing more. Many have done it and we've been fully aware of the times they did it for political reasons and are lying when they "apologize" or say they "misspoke". Too bad you're willing to cut him that much slack and believe his lie.

They're not only calling for him to withdraw, some are saying he should resign his House seat, too. Many of them; the panic that's ensued over this is a gas:

Five past and present Republican senators from Missouri called Tuesday for Rep. Todd Akin to withdraw from the campaign.

In a rare intra-party rebuke, Senator Scott Brown called on Representative Todd Akin, of Missouri, on Monday to withdraw from the US Senate race in his state. Brown was among the first prominent Republicans to call for Akin to end his Senate bid.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and the entire GOP national political apparatus launched a swift and relentless crusade against one of their own Monday, seeking to drive Rep. Todd Akin out of the U.S. Senate race in Missouri after his controversial comments on rape and pregnancy threatened the party with widespread political harm.

Sen. Ronald H. Johnson (R-Wis.), a social conservative and tea party leader after his 2010 victory, also called for Akin to drop out: “Todd Akin’s statements are reprehensible and inexcusable. He should step aside today for the good of the nation.”

Akin's having none of it:
Quote:

“The good people of Missouri nominated me, and I’m not a quitter,” Akin told Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor who now hosts a radio show. “My belief is, we’re going to take this thing forward. And, by the grace of God, we’re going to win this race. To quote my old friend John Paul Jones, ‘I’ve not yet begun to fight.’?”

He did not show up for a planned appearance with CNN’s Piers Morgan, who opened his show with an empty chair where Akin was supposed to be sitting.

There's this, as of this morning:
Quote:

Missouri Republican Todd Akin has begun moving toward ending his candidacy after his remarks on rape and abortion provoked a firestorm, a top Republican said.

"Akin is taking concrete steps to withdraw by tomorrow at 5:00 p.m.," a senior Republican told BuzzFeed, adding that Akin could still change his mind.

But a Republican close to Akin said his position hasn't changed: He's still in the race.

I hope that one's wrong, I reeeely want him to stay in the race!!!

Quote:

Not sure of the mechanisms for removing him from the ballot, but probably not possibly this late in the game unless he dies, withdraws on his own, or is convicted of some "high crime" or other.
You heard the same things I did...if he doesn't withdraw by today, he can only get out through court actions:
Quote:

Missouri state law allows a nominated candidate to withdraw his or her bid for office by 5 p.m. on the 11th Tuesday before the election which, as it turns out, is tomorrow. If Akin does drop his bid before tomorrow’s deadline, the state’s GOP central committee would pick his replacement.
The only other option later on:
Quote:

But tomorrow is not the end-all and be-all. Missouri election law gurus tell me there are actually two time lines. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. is the deadline for the no fuss-no-muss withdrawal. But there is another opportunity as well. Sept. 25 is the deadline for withdrawal by court order. (That procedure includes the requirement that any costs for reprinting ballots be covered by the withdrawing candidate.) In either case, a replacement would be chosen by the state GOP central committee.

Now would a court allow Akin to drop out after tomorrow? The statute reads that “if there is no additional cost for the printing or reprinting of ballots, or if the candidate agrees to pay any printing or reprinting costs, a candidate who has filed or is nominated for an office may, at any time after the time limits set forth in subsection 1 of this section but no later than 5:00 p.m. on the sixth Tuesday before the election, withdraw as a candidate pursuant to a court order, which, except for good cause shown by the election authority in opposition thereto, shall be freely given upon application by the candidate to the circuit court in the county of such candidate’s residence. No withdrawal pursuant to this subsection shall be effective until such candidate files a copy of the court’s order in the office of the official who accepted such candidate’s declaration of candidacy.”

It is not clear what the basis for such a court order would be. But I expect the party could round up a favorable judge.

Maybe he will, but oh, how I hope he doesn't...this is just getting to be TOO much damned fun!

But there's a much larger issue here. Ryan was in AGREEMENT with this man on the matter of abortion, and worked with him on several bills:

--Like Akin, (presumptive GOP vice-presidential candidate U.S. Rep. Paul) Ryan is a co-sponsor of the “Sanctity of Human Life Act,” a so-called personhood measure that defines life as beginning at “fertilization, cloning or its functional equivalent” and empowers the federal and state governments to pass laws to protect life from that point on. The bill makes no exception for rape.

--Ryan has voted in favor of a restriction on federal funding for abortions — known as the Hyde Amendment — that includes exceptions when a pregnancy results from rape or incest, or endangers the life of the mother. The amendment, which has changed over the years, has maintained broad enough support in part because hard-line abortion foes have been willing to accept the exemptions to ensure that the basic ban stays in place.

--Ryan also was a co-sponsor of legislation banning taxpayer funding for abortions that included exemptions for “forcible rape,” incest and the endangerment of the mother’s life. Before the House passed that bill, known as the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act, the word “forcible” was removed because it offended some Republicans.

--GOP platform in recent years has called for legislation that would "make clear that the 14th Amendment's protections apply to unborn children." ...But the platform has been silent on exceptions, suggesting that the Romney-Ryan position is at odds with the party doctrine.

Over and over again Ryan has made it very clear where he stands. He's proudly proclaimed that "nobody" in the House is more pro-life than him. To imagine that he's changed his mind in any way is foolish. Romney's views are changeable with the weather, but Ryan as V.P. would have the power to do what he's been unable to do in Congress, and you can bet on it that he'll try.


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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 10:55 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

"Legitmate rape" could mean a lot of things. I think he means rape where the person is having non-consensual sex.....



that is the defintition of rape - I cut the 'unwilling partner' because you are just repeating what non-consensual means.



Quote:

Other kinds...child rape,

child rape (and statutory rape for that matter) is considered rape because the victim is too young to make the decision around consensuality, so it is for all intents and purposes 'non-consensual sex'

Quote:

False accusations is another possibility...kinda goes hand in hand with the "regret" rapes.

False accusations under any circumsances means that there is no rape.

Quote:

.like where the dude can't perform or finish,

never heard that described as rape


Quote:

or they are married,

so rape doesn't exist if you are married. Are we back to the dark ages where women are obliged to have sex because they are married? Pardon me, but your misogyny is starting to show.


Quote:

or somebody was misusing a turkey baster...

Now that is just weird


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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


We could also throw in the transvaginal ultrasound if we wanted to..."rape with foreign object"? "Sodomy" I believe? No doubt not "legitimate rape" anyway, in their opinion. Of course, there you REALLY can't get preggers, so I guess it's "okay" This whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach...


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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Quote:

False accusations is another possibility...kinda goes hand in hand with the "regret" rapes.

False accusations under any circumsances means that there is no rape.



Tell that to guys who were CONVICTED of this ' no rape ' crime, and how rarely they are later acquitted. ( yeah, this is REALLY veering off course of the main topic, but I just wanted to toss that into the mix )

Quote:



Quote:

.like where the dude can't perform or finish,

never heard that described as rape



Now that sounds a lot like an Akin sort of definition. * cringe *



Quote:


Quote:

or they are married,

so rape doesn't exist if you are married. Are we back to the dark ages where women are obliged to have sex because they are married? Pardon me, but your misogyny is starting to show.



OK, I think we're being had here...

Quote:


Quote:

or somebody was misusing a turkey baster...

Now that is just weird


Hey, unless it's a loving lesbian couple who wants a child, then it's perfectly 'natural'.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Further to my point that this is neither new nor unusual in the Republican party:
Quote:

They will attempt to distance themselves from the controversy.

But they can't.

They will even try to claim the whole conversation is a distraction from the "real issues."

And yet they never shy away from using this same conversation to fire up their base, or hurl attack ads or raise funds.

The truth is the "legitimate rape" comment made by U.S. Rep. Todd Akin -- as in pregnancy from "legitimate rape" is rare -- is not a GOP anomaly, but rather another disturbing glimpse into the viewpoint too many social conservatives have about women's health and reproductive rights. And if abortion is not among the "real issues," why is the GOP platform committee considering adding a ban, with no mention of exceptions ("GOP platform spoiler alert - no exception for rape, incest in abortion plank" http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/gop-pl
atform-spoiler-alert-no-exception-rape-incest-abortion-plank
]), to this year's to-do list?

Last March, in a discussion in the Kansas House about whether women purchase separate abortion-only policies, Republican state Rep. Pete DeGraaf suggested women should plan ahead for rape the way he keeps a spare tire ( http://articles.kwch.com/2011-05-25/rights-groups_29584145]. A few weeks later, Indiana state Rep. Eric Turner, a Republican, said some women might fake being raped in order to get free abortions ( http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-03-31/news/29386489_1_strict-anti
-abortion-bill-incest-procedure
]).

Former presidential hopeful Rick Santorum suggested doctors who perform an abortion on a woman who becomes pregnant from an attack should be thrown in jail

and this year suggested rape victims who become pregnant from an attack should be forced to keep the baby and "make the best out of a bad situation" ( http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1201/20/pmt.01.html]).

And we're to believe Akin is just a one-off.

Please.

More than 200 Republican members of Congress joined him in co-sponsoring House Resolution 3, the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act, when it contained language restricting the exception for federally funded abortions to "an act of forcible rape or, if a minor, an act of incest."

Forcible rape.

That's not too far from "legitimate rape"

So vice presidential hopeful Paul Ryan can try to backpedal away from Akin as fast as he can, but his name is still on the record in support of that bill, with that language. He can say he's in line with Mitt Romney and would not ban abortions in the case of rape, but it's his name attached to House Resolution 212: Sanctity of Human Life Act, which would have done just that.

don't think for a second that social issues -- particularly abortion -- are not in the GOP's sights. Since the tea party helped pull the GOP back into power in 2010 -- under the guise of controlling government spending -- close to 1,000 anti-abortion bills have been introduced across the country. I can't think of anything approaching that number of bills with the goal of creating jobs in that same time span, can you?

At a Personhood USA "tele-town hall meeting" in December, Santorum, Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry all said they would work to outlaw all abortions, regardless of the circumstances. You can fully expect a Republican Congress to move quickly to ban all abortions, regardless of circumstances.

And given that a would-be President Romney said, "I will protect a woman's right to choose," when he was running for Massachusetts governor in 2002, only to become an anti-abortion advocate while running for president, there's no telling which side of the issue he will fall on, on any given day.

Some social conservatives talk of protecting religious freedom, but what they are really seeking is a theocracy that places limits on freedom based on a version of Judeo-Christianity that fits their liking. That language is also being considered for the GOP's national platform. Some speak of fighting abortion because of their religious convictions and then belittle the trauma caused by rape.

They think they can make this controversy all about Akin, as if Ryan's legislative history is just going to disappear. As if DeGraaf never suggested women should plan ahead for rape the way he keeps a spare tire. As if none of us are paying attention.

But we are. http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/21/opinion/granderson-gop-rape-abortion/ind
ex.html?hpt=hp_t1

Damned straight, we are!


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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:41 AM

HKCAVALIER


Even Akin's restatement is in essence the same statement!

"Rape is never legitimate. It's an evil act committed by violent predators." So that would likely exclude first time offenders/date rapists, husbands, etc. It's all "stranger danger" boloney. The rapist hiding in the bushes.

I'd say it's an evil act, definitely, but it is committed by "friends" and relatives often as not. His misspeaking is all in the words he used, his message remains the same, if slightly occulted for the sake of politics. And he is fooling no one.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:53 AM

MAL4PREZ


"Republican state Rep. Pete DeGraaf suggested women should plan ahead for rape the way he keeps a spare tire"

I wonder if Rep. DeGraf keeps a tube of balm in his glove compartment just in case he gets ass-raped. Or maybe he used it all up last time he flew through Minneapolis... ?

This conversation does not bring out my softer side.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Even Akin's restatement is in essence the same statement!

"Rape is never legitimate. It's an evil act committed by violent predators." So that would likely exclude first time offenders/date rapists, husbands, etc. It's all "stranger danger" boloney. The rapist hiding in the bushes.

I'd say it's an evil act, definitely, but it is committed by "friends" and relatives often as not. His misspeaking is all in the words he used, his message remains the same, if slightly occulted for the sake of politics. And he is fooling no one.

HKCavalier



Just wondering, how do you get this 'stranger danger' baloney, out of his statement that rape is committed by 'violent predators' ?

Even if we all agree that his 'apology' is nothing but 100% CYA, where do you see fault here ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:20 PM

WHOZIT


...meanwhile Joe Biden is still insane.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Thing is, this really is the GOP's official position. They want abortion outlawed IN ALL CASES, WITH NO EXCEPTIONS. Not for rape, not for "rape-rape", not for ANYTHING. Noncompliance will result in murder charges being filed.

What do you think these "personhood" bills are, exactly? When you define an egg at the very first second of fertilization as a "person", you are voting to outlaw hormonal birth control (The Pill, for example), IUDs, the "morning after" pill (Plan B, for instance), and some other forms of birth control.


Look at the official platform for the GOP.

Look at the fact that in most states, a rapist - even a "legitimate" rapist, a FORCIBLE rapist - has the same visitation rights as any father of any other child.

This is all about the GOP wanting to make sure they "put women in their place" - and they want to make damn sure the women KNOW their place.

Akin's biggest mistake was saying out loud what's been whispered behind closed doors among the GOP leadership for years now.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012 1:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



There are some who think that abortion is punishing the innocent unborn, when the real punishment should be left for the rapist.

It's a position some in the GOP do hold, and I can see it as being a valid position. Not one I hold myself, but still, it's worthy of debate.

The 'fuss' over all this wasn't that SOME in the GOP don't care for abortion, that's nothing new. The real issue was the absurdness of Akin's remarks, about 'legitimate' rape, and the idea that women's bodies will 'shut down' most pregnancies resulting from rape.

But it's funny to see how some try to demagogue the Pro Life issue out of this, when it really isn't part of the controversy at all.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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