REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hee hee...

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, July 27, 2012 15:02
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Tuesday, July 24, 2012 2:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


He apparently doesn't understand that "govt" *IS* "we the people". Even says so right at the beginning of the Constitution - you know, that sacred document which outlines and sets up our "govt"!







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, July 24, 2012 2:46 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, not to be too painfully tedious about it but ...
Quote:

Infrastructure , built and paid for , not by govt ( which has nothing it doesn't take from the people, by force ) but by we the people.
OK, here is his first confusion which you clearly set out as his lack of understanding about 'we, the people'..
Quote:

But it's a straw man to claim that no one builds a business on their own.
Straw-man? Does he know what that means? The statement is actually a truism.
Quote:

It's the individual who risks their own money, puts in their own time, uses their own brains and sweat
Or their investor's money or family's money (or both) and cheap labor.
Quote:

to ...yes, BUILD their own business.
And the point of this is, what exactly?
Quote:

That's what we WANT,people working HERE, and not over seas, isn't it?
Now this is really confused. Does he think that it ISN'T business that moves jobs overseas? What does starting a business have to do with jobs in the US?

Quote:

This class war fare gig of Obama's is what some saw wrong with this guy for a long time. Now everyone sees what he's about. Or at least, enough see to vote his ass out come November.
Do you have any clue what this 'class warfare' is that he's babbling about?

I swear, the whole post was like it came from someone who was hallucinating.


SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Kiki, you ARE talking about Raptor, you realize? Looking for sense, or even legibility, is kind of a fool's errand, isn't it? Hell, I don't care about trying to understand what he's writing, I already know what it is:

Romney: Good, right
Obama: Bad, wrong.

However he phrases it, you know what he means, AND you know his argument will make no sense, in this case, WHATEVER he says. Romney was quite clear in that he AGREED with Obama that nobody gets there on their own, back in 2002, addressing the Olympians:
Quote:

“You Olympians, however, know you didn’t get here solely on your own power,” said Romney, who on Friday will attend the Opening Ceremonies of this year’s Summer Olympics. “For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities. All right! [pumps fist].”

Which, of course, Raptor will say has nothing to do with business, or he meant something else, etc., etc., but which nonetheless shows that Romney understood what Obama was saying, as did everyone else, it's just that the absurd tactic (used by all politicians) of selectively "interpreting" his remarks is just that...absurd.

He fully understands nobody built a business "on their own". They get tax breaks, government funding/subsidies, utilize infrastructure, and much more. Raptor IS right in that all of that is our tax dollars, otherwise the government wouldn't HAVE money to spend on small business loans, subsidies, tax breaks, etc. Romney fully gets this. He's done it over and over himself.
Quote:

Let's just take one example -- GST Steel. Here is a little Kansas City, Missouri steel company Bain Capital bought for $75 million, but put only $8 million of its own money into the deal. They borrowed the rest. Within a year, Romney and Bain put GST Steel further into debt, borrowing another $125 million. Some of that money was put to good use, modernizing the factory. But $36 million of the borrowed money was paid to Mitt Romney and Bain in the form of a dividend.

Less than a year after loading the company up with debt, Romney and Bain gave themselves bonuses four times bigger than the $8 million they had put into the deal. And guess what the tax rate they had to pay on that unearned income was? A lot less than yours. You guessed it: 15 percent. Thank you for all that extra "free stuff" from the U.S. Government's tax code. Bain also asked Kansas City for a $3 million tax break. More free stuff!

Then, when GST Steel filed for bankruptcy and laid off 750 people, we learned that Bain had consciously underfunded its pension obligations to those employees. The company simply decided not to meet its legal responsibilities. The end result: the federal government's pension benefit guarantee corporation was stuck with a $44 million bill.

That federal agency was created for the purpose of guaranteeing pensions in the event of a catastrophe in the private sector -- the ultimate safety net. And it had to fork over the money to save the worker pensions that Bain chose to underfund.

So, that's $44 million for the pensions, $3 million for the local tax breaks and $7 million from the federal tax code. A total of $54 million in free stuff from the government. And that was just one of Bain's companies.

Mitt Romney privatizes the gains from his enterprises, but spreads the costs to the rest of us.

Seems that "free stuff" is in the eye of the beholder.


It's easy for any thinking person to understand nobody "builds" a business on their own, but we're not talking about what thinking people think. We're talking about politics and how to twist one sentence in order to build an attack, which the base who already hate Obama eat up like candy. He's not changing the minds of anyone who doesn't already know exactly who they're voting for, with that attack.

So obviously Raptor is going to play the party line and will argue until the cows come home that what ROMNEY said is what Obama MEANT...mostly in hopes of deflecting attention from his unwillingness to release his tax returns. There's nothing beyond it but that.



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Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And then there's this...

"Star of Romney ‘My Hands Didn’t Build This’ Ad Received Millions in Government Loans and Contracts"

Quote:

The Romney campaign has been making much out of an out-of-context President Obama quote.
Speaking in Roanoke, Virginia on July 13 about the necessity of government for services such as infrastructure, the president said “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help…Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business – you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”
Listen to it for yourself: the remarks in question were roughly 33 minutes and 40 seconds into the speech:
The Romney campaign, has suggested that the president was telling business owners that they didn’t create their own business, taking the “If you’ve got a business – you didn’t build that” remark out of context.
In a campaign ad, the Romney campaign spliced out the “roads and bridges” the president seemed to be referring to as “that” when he said “you didn’t build that.”
In a new TV ad, Romney features an offended New Hampshire businessman, saying, “My father’s hands didn’t build this company? My hands didn’t build this company? My son’s hands aren’t building this company?”

The New Hampshire Union Leader’s John DiStato today reports that in 1999 the business in question, Gilchrist Metal, “received $800,000 in tax-exempt revenue bonds issued by the New Hampshire Business Finance Authority ‘to set up a second manufacturing plant and purchase equipment to produce high definition television broadcasting equipment’…” In addition, in 2011, Gilchrist Metal “received two U.S. Navy sub-contracts totaling about $83,000 and a smaller, $5,600 Coast Guard contract in 2008…”



http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/star-of-romney-my-hands-d
idnt-build-this-ad-received-millions-in-government-loans-and-contracts
/



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Tuesday, July 24, 2012 4:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Infrastructure , built and paid for , not by govt... but by we the people. But it's a straw man to claim that no one builds a business on their own. It's the individual who risks their own money, puts in their own time, uses their own brains and sweat to ...yes, BUILD their own business. That's what we WANT,people working HERE, and not over seas, isn't it?




Thank you for agreeing with President Obama, then.

Quote:

"The point is, when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."



What you're saying is pretty much exactly what he said. And you're still pissed at him for saying it, even though you've reiterated his point several times now. And so has Mitt Romney, and so have his spokespeople and supporters.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, July 27, 2012 7:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Meanwhile...



http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-friends-politicizes-little-girls-lemona
de-business
/

Of course, the little girls went on to insist that they'd had lots of help building their lemonade stand. And I'm guessing it sits next to a road that they didn't build, or in a park they didn't build.

‎"I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business, perhaps the banks, the investors, there's no question, your mom and dad, your school teachers, the people that provide roads, the police, the fire, a lot of people provide help." - Mitt Romney, July 18, 2012







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Friday, July 27, 2012 9:37 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

That's what we WANT,people working HERE, and not over seas, isn't it?


But... Bain was outsourc-
no... no, forget it.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Friday, July 27, 2012 10:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Dangit, Mike, we keep duplicating one another...or more like, lately, YOU keep duplicating ME! I put up Jon's entire wonderful segment on that ( http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=52553&p=2), and here I find it in another thread!

That's okay, I like your way, too...how did you get those screen shots?! Did you get them from some site, or create them yourself? They're very well done, but left out one of his best lines: "Hanging your entire political argument on a person's slight grammatical misstep is what people do in an argument when they're completely fucked and they know they have no argument!"

You also missed that the little girls with the lemonade stand said they'd gotten help from their "investors"--their parents. All in all, the Romney camp's game doesn't work...but of course it works GREAT for people who hear their claims over and over and over but never hear the whole thing.


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Friday, July 27, 2012 12:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

That's what we WANT,people working HERE, and not over seas, isn't it?


But... Bain was outsourc-
no... no, forget it.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives



No, I WON'T forget it , because there you go again, distorting the facts.

Bain came in AFTER these companies had basically already failed. They weren't thriving, strong businesses, and then Bain simply shows up, fires everyone, and liquidates the assets, and then is off to the Caribbean for a well deserved paid vacation. That's what our OWN govt does, on their 'employee conferences '.

You really are confused, man.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, July 27, 2012 1:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Bain came in AFTER these companies had basically already failed. They weren't thriving, strong businesses, and then Bain simply shows up, fires everyone, and liquidates the assets, and then is off to the Caribbean for a well deserved paid vacation.




Thing is, that's pretty much exactly what Bain did, again and again, liquidating companies, taking all the money out of them, and then hanging the government with their pension problems afterwards.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Friday, July 27, 2012 1:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Dangit, Mike, we keep duplicating one another...or more like, lately, YOU keep duplicating ME! I put up Jon's entire wonderful segment on that ( http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=52553&p=2), and here I find it in another thread!

That's okay, I like your way, too...how did you get those screen shots?! Did you get them from some site, or create them yourself? They're very well done, but left out one of his best lines: "Hanging your entire political argument on a person's slight grammatical misstep is what people do in an argument when they're completely fucked and they know they have no argument!"

You also missed that the little girls with the lemonade stand said they'd gotten help from their "investors"--their parents. All in all, the Romney camp's game doesn't work...but of course it works GREAT for people who hear their claims over and over and over but never hear the whole thing.




The screen shots are coming from my facebook friends, most of them; some I create myself and share with others.

I linked the article where it talks about the little girls and all the help they admitted to getting, right after Brian Kilmeade stupidly said that they built their business all on their own, with no help from anyone.

And yes, we may be cross-posting, but that's okay. It's a message that should be out there, and this is as appropriate a thread for it as any.

I try to add new material to old threads which Rappy and others would like to see die and fall off the page. Seems there's lots of stuff they really don't want to talk about.

Rappy, of course, just insists that no such thing ever happened. I'm sure he'll be along soon to tell us that Kilmeade never even talked to those little girls, and Romney never once agreed with Obama's statements.

Rappy has had a serious break with reality, finally. We all saw this coming; when reality proved too much for him to bear, he simply denied reality outright, and has removed himself from it completely.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Friday, July 27, 2012 2:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)








"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Friday, July 27, 2012 3:02 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

there you go again

Thank you, Mr. Reagan. Do I get a "Go ahead, make my day" to go with that?

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Raptoids

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