REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"NOW Do You Believe in Global Warming?"

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Sunday, August 26, 2012 15:07
SHORT URL:
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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Means nothing to the deniers, so you guys, just go your way. I know: "It's hot in Summer, cold in Winter". S'arright, you'll die off with the rest of us. Because as far as I'm concerned, we've already passed "tipping point" and any efforts we or the rest of the world make will only manage to hold it at bay for a while. Too bad humans take so long to be convinced of their own impending doom...maybe we could have stopped it if we'd used our brains early enough.
Quote:

Back in February of 2010, Senator James Inhofe's grandchildren built an igloo for Al Gore. Inhofe is an Oklahoma Republican and the most skeptical of Congressional climate deniers; he's the one who called global warming "the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people." The 2010 winter was one of the snowiest in recent memory — including a massive blizzard that February that became known as "Snowmageddon" — which skeptics like Inhofe happily used as evidence that man-made climate change didn't really exist. So Inhofe's daughter, son-in-law and four grandchildren built a snowpacked igloo in Washington after one major storm, and stuck a sign on it: "Al Gore's New Home."

Fast-forward a year and a half. The weather in Washington is extreme again, but this time it's brutally hot, with the city in early July setting a record for the most consecutive 95 F plus days in a row — ten of them lined in a hyperthermic murderer's row. And the heat isn't confined to the nation's capital; over the past few weeks, just about every part of the country except for the Pacific Northwest has experienced unusually high temperatures. The national weather map looks like a U.S.-shaped burn mark. To environmentalists, the summer of 2012 is climate change in action — which led the green group 350.org to plan an ice-based stunt of their own. Activists were going to build an ice sculpture of the word "HOAX?" on July 7 in front of Capitol Hill, then let it melt in Washington's triple-digit heat.

In the end, 350.org decided not to go ahead with the ice-melting event. (The group's executive director Bill McKibben ultimately worried that the protest would be seen as insensitive given the very real human toll of the heat wave.) But HOAX in ice and Al Gore's igloo both underscore the way that the weather, more than anything else, drives our belief in climate change — and our uneven commitment to doing something about it. After the exceedingly mild winter just past and a warm spring that started early, one Yale University study found that 66% of Americans said they believe in climate change, up from 57% in January 2010 — right in the middle of that snowy winter. If we check in with the American public after another snowmageddon, expect the figure to fall again.

But it's a mistake to look at climate change only through the lens of public opinion polls, because what's happening right now in the U.S. really is out of the ordinary — assuming that ordinary still applies. More than 2 million acres have been burned in massive wildfires in much of the West, more than 110 million people were living under extreme heat advisories at the end of June and more than two-thirds of the country is experiencing drought. Last month, 3,215 daily high temperature records were set nationwide — and that's nothing compared to the 15,000 set in March. The 12 months ending in May were the warmest 12 continuous months on record in the U.S. "What we see now is what global warming really looks like," says Michael Oppenheimer, a climate expert and a professor at Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School. "The heat, the fires, these kinds of environmental disasters."

This isn't to say that climate change is directly causing the extreme heat that's been suffocating much of the U.S. this summer. Fingerprinting a single extreme weather event as evidence of global warming — be it a heat wave, a major storm, a drought or a flood — take years of intensive study, though researchers are beginning to make those connections. A 2011 study in Nature made waves by linking rising instances of extreme precipitation in the second half of the 20th century to man-made global warming — the kind of large-scale survey that needs to be done to make the climate change case authoritatively. The sheer number of factors that influence individual weather events is immense. But we do have a pretty good idea of what climate change will look like in the years to come — if it continues uninterrupted — and it will look a lot like this summer, this spring and this winter. "The frequency of hot days and hot periods has already increased and will increase further," says Oppenheimer. "What we're seeing fits into the pattern you would expect."

Here's what we should take away from the heat: climate change is real and it's happening now. We can disagree about how to handle it, and how much those policies might cost, but it's long past time to surrender to the science. Perhaps this year of extreme heat will help shake loose the forces blocking climate change action, though judging from the near-complete absence of global warming as an issue on the Presidential campaign trail, that hasn't happened yet. It had better happen soon. We're living in an igloo in the summertime, and the ice is melting all around us. Time to face facts. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2119129,00.html


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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:54 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


We shouldn't focus too much on what the weather is doing. It can vary from unseasonably warm to freakishly cold, and may or may not have anything to do with climate change. We should focus on all the scientific data that we have - data that paints a clear picture of a warming planet with more extreme weather patterns globally.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:40 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I believe that polluting less and using renewable energy are items that can be sold on their own merits, using purely selfish motivators.

So if the problem is solveable, it can be solved even if people remain ignorant or apathetic about it.

--Anthony





Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:40 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I know: "It's hot in Summer, cold in Winter". S'arright, you'll die off with the rest of us. Because as far as I'm concerned, we've already passed "tipping point" and any efforts we or the rest of the world make will only manage to hold it at bay for a while.


The real problem here is that you've made the Sun God angry. Why just the other day there was a thunderstorm...thunder! Proof that we have offended the mighty one. The next day it was hot outside and did not rain. More proof. Then...(whisper) the sun rose in the east and set in the west...(shudders).

Somebody find a virgin, a goat, and a copy of 'Polytheism for Dummies'.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 11:29 AM

OONJERAH



Islands in the Sky

I believe the super rich will build habitats in space & underground.

The masses will be left to fry. Maybe rightly so, idiot sheep.

ETA: "Nothing lasts forever, but the earth and sky!"

=========================
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. ~Charles R Swindoll

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Nope.

Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.

Check back w/ me in 50 years, and I'll give you an answer.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:16 PM

WHOZIT


No I don't, but I believe in Bigfoot and UFO's

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:46 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

So if the problem is solveable, it can be solved even if people remain ignorant or apathetic about it.

--Anthony




Yeaaaah, we can save the planet...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2171602/Workmen-destroy-20-000
-rare-turtle-eggs-bulldozers-hit-beach.html

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:00 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.



LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 5:29 PM

CENTURY22


Ask me again a hundred years from now.....if we have record heat waves EVERY YEAR.

...better worlds, all better worlds.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:29 PM

WISHIMAY


My granny says she remembers the record heat of '36 here, that we just beat this year. She said they got so excited because the dog was eating grass and that that meant it was going to rain, but it never did and the crops didn't make it that year. Will my kid tell about the two weeks in 2012 we didn't bother to go outside when she's 80?? I wonder....

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


NIKI< these people are so immersed in their ideology they couldn't agree that the sky is blue and the earth is round, even if they woke up to it every gorram day. And you'll never convince them. IRL there is only one answer for people like that; and maybe someday when earth becomes unlivable and people know who was at fault they'll get their due.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!"

Yeah it does, actually. And then to put a schmeer of intelligence and authority on it, he quotes a fictional character. Hey, if I quote Spock will I be a genius?


SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:25 PM

OONJERAH



I like to quote fictional characters.
They get some of the best lines.
And we, their audience, usually know if they are honest or wise.
Otherwise ... I'd just have to be the Authority mySelf!

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:04 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.



LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!



Irony. I do not think that word means what you think it means.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:57 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.



LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!



Irony. I do not think that word means what you think it means.





Does it have anything to do with "laminations"?







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:45 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm on the fence about the whole thing.....

I've posted here about how miserable I've been this summer so far without any A/C, and before that I got only about 10" of snow all damn winter and 8 straight 80 degree days in April... The summer before that was nearly as hot as this, but thankfully I was living with family that had A/C so I didn't really notice it.

The funny thing is though, there hasn't really been any other hot summers in the northern midwest since the drought of '88.

I'm not saying that I beleive we're not hurting the environment, in fact I do believe that to be true. All I'm saying is that the last 18 months is not evidence that the sky is falling. I don't believe that we're moments away from our own demise as a species via crazy weather any more than I believe that the Mayan calender ending in December of this year is the end of the world.



I sleep okay at night. Even though half of it has to do with my own financial responsibility, I have the lowest carbon footprint of anybody I know. I don't have A/C in the house, A/C in my 16 year old Toyota is busted, even with these gas prices my average monthly gas bill for my car is 30 bucks, I spent all winter in a 60 degree house and had very low gas bills to show for it, I use about 1,200 gallons of water a month on average, I'm growing my own tomatoes and plan to expand the garden next year, I bring my tweed sack to Aldi (made from recycled materials) and never purchase any of their plastic bags, on the rare occasions I head to a "real" grocery store for some sales, I always ask for paper bags, I recycle everything I can (it's AMAZING how long a bulk box of kitchen trash bags will last you if you do this), and my biggest contribution to the planet is that I haven't had any kids which are by far anyone's BIGGEST carbon footprint in the end.

In the future, when prices drop, I plan on getting a bad-ass solar panel system going. It's just too expensive to do now, but like all tech the price will go down and the efficiency will rise as time goes on. Just playing the waiting game here....


There's really nothing else I can do Niki. I can no more make my family or friends recycle than I can get them to be more responsible with their money. Sadly, that's the human condition in general.... If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If we really are trashing the future of mankind via environmental changes, nobody is going to really do anything about it until it IS too late.

I still think that "The Day After Tomorrow" is one of the best comedies I've ever seen though. I didn't even view it as a comedy through the whole thing until the punchline at the end. Anybody who survived was crossing the Mexican border to welcome and open arms :)


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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Of course I know that, Sig; I didn't put it up for them. And of course I know that one year's weather--or ten!--doesn't mean much. But it's far more than that, as thinking people have learned:
Quote:

• Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

• The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

• The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000 and 2004.

• Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

• Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

• An upsurge in the amount of extreme weather events, such as wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, is also attributed in part to climate change by some experts. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_war
ming.html

That last is what we've just endured, both the Winter (when crocks were suffering in Florida!) and this Summer.

I know full well that, even when the world has changed so dramatically that nobody with at least two brain cells to rub together can deny it, they'll still be in denial. It doesn't really matter in the end; no matter what we do at this point, as far as I'm concerned, it will only extend the period of survivable time here. Science can't do enough to reverse the effects even if the whole world got together and did everything imaginable, in my opinion. I've finally gotten off the fence on that one; I believe we've passed tipping point already. I'm just damned grateful I'm as old as I am and have no children. We pretty much deserve what's coming, sadly.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:30 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.



LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!



Irony. I do not think that word means what you think it means.





Oh, I know the word well, and understand it just fine. Others have grokked my meaning as well, though I fully expected you would not.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I know full well that, even when the world has changed so dramatically that nobody with at least two brain cells to rub together can deny it, they'll still be in denial.



Just out of curiosity, do you read the data the folks who don't agree with you provide, or do any un-biased research into the claims of both sides, or do you just deny the opposition's validity out of hand? I note that you only cite articles with a decided pro-climate change message.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nope. For years I was on the fence about climate change, and I read both sides extensively. The evidence has, to me, becomes so overwhelming over time that I have jumped off the fence and am convinced it not only exists, but will be the death of us. I post FACTS about what has led to the conclusion that global warming not only exists, but in my opinion has gone far enough past "tipping point" that we won't be able to reverse it. Why would I post things from those who don't believe that, given I believe what I do and my only hope is that we can stave off destruction as long as we can? The more people come to accept what's happening, the better our chances of at least lessening its influence for as long as possible. I hope that answers your question.

And yeah, Story, I grok it perfectly, I just don't expend much effort trying to communicate with or snark about Raptor most of the time (unless it's fun or there are facts that need refuting, for the benefit of others).

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:10 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Just out of curiosity, do you read the data the folks who don't agree with you provide, or do any un-biased research into the claims of both sides

Why listen to anyone other than the scientists? Oh wait, I know - because they're stooges in the worldwide governmental conspiracy to invent climate change, and exercise more control over the economy and our personal freedoms, blah blah blah. We must also listen soberly to what the oil lobby has to say on the matter, to get a 'balanced' view.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:26 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Oh, I know the word well, and understand it just fine. Others have grokked my meaning as well, though I fully expected you would not.



So I'm not a lap dog for AlGore, and don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't. Doesn't mean I don't still adhere to the facts or the evidence.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:32 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't.

What?? You say all the time that the debate is settled, proclaiming that AGW is nothing more than a hoax. Have you changed your views?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


There is that, too, KPO. For some time now, we've been inundated by ads for coal, natural gas and oil, and I have to change stations quickly to avoid throwing something at the TV. They are so obviously manipulative, yet I know a lot of ignorant people are buying into them.
Quote:

The Reality Campaign has released a new ad. They're the folks behind the widely-played ad that featured a foreman in a hard hat taking viewers on a tour of a non-existent clean coal facility.

In this new ad, a pitchman gives us the hard sell on a "Clean Coal Clean"-scented air freshener that works just as well as "clean coal."

This one, THIS ONE, really drives me up the wall--I see it several times a day at LEAST:


I want to scream at them, I really do. Ethanol. ETHANOL, of all things!

All this "natural gas" bullshit is sick...they talk about how wonderful natural gas is, and how it can be mined with less emissions than oil--and of course leaving out the damage fracking does...

Shell has a real slick cutie too:


We just demonstrated against Obama opening up waters around Alaska to drilling by Shell...may they rot in hell...

I'm just sick to death of the slick ads, the propaganda--and I don't know about you guys, but out here they are the MOST prolific ads we get on some channels, literally!

I got a kick out of this--which 99% of Americans won't know about either:
Quote:

Big Oil is using fake “Americans” to defend billions in tax subsidies. The American Petroleum Institute is running full-page ads in Politico and Roll Call that attack Congress for “new energy taxes”:
Quote:

Congress will likely consider new taxes on America’s oil and natural gas industry. These new energy taxes will produce wide-reaching effects, and ripple through our economy when America — and Americans — can least afford it.

These unprecedented taxes will serve to reduce investment in new energy supplies at a time when most Americans support developing our domestic oil and natural gas resources. That means less energy, thousands of American jobs being lost and further erosion of our energy security.

Our economy is in crisis, and we need to get the nation on the road to economic recovery. This is no time to burden Americans with new energy costs.

The target of this ad is the Obama administration’s effort to remove $36 billion in loopholes and subsidies for the oil industry. As it turns out, the “Americans” presented in the ad are stock photos from Getty Images.

Of course they are; why try to find real people when it's cheaper to just stick stock photography in there? "New taxes" my ass; the oil companies need subsidies like we need holes in our heads, but you'll have to pry them out of their "cold, dead hands" to take 'em away, and they've got the ad agencies to keep people from even knowing about it, yes siree!

Lies, lies and more lies...sigh...

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't.

What?? You say all the time that the debate is settled, proclaiming that AGW is nothing more than a hoax. Have you changed your views?

It's not personal. It's just war.



Unlike AlGore, I'll keep and open mind. Which is why I said come back in 50 years, then I'll give you an answer. It really may need more like 100 to 500 years, for a more accurate measure, but I'm sure that I REALLY won't care by then. So 50 seems like a fair number.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:02 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Niki,

I have heard that the Insurance companies will be forced to use something like 70 percent of their revenue (I'm not sure of the exact figure) to provide their product to their customer. i.e. Health Care.

Do you think a similar rule should be enacted for energy providers?

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:00 PM

OONJERAH



I recommend "The Age of Stupid," starring Pete Postlethwaite.
"a man living alone in the devasted world of 2055, looking back at archive footage
from 2007 and asking: why didn't we stop climate change when we had the chance?"




In a few years, my grandsons may ask, "Why didn't we stop climate change when we had
the chance?" Will they remember their parents' complete, concrete denial of it?

To those here in adamant denial ... Hey! Wouldn't you like cleaner air, cleaner water?
Or have you never lived in a big city where you can see the smog-air?

Signyn, remind me not to speak to the purposely deaf!!

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:18 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Hey! Wouldn't you like cleaner air, cleaner water?


Hello,

THIS is selling. This is the way to save everything.

Try also selling energy independence, so that no foreign powers can't hold us over a barrel and we no longer need to go to war to secure energy resources.

And whatever alternative energy costs, we can be 100% certain that it will cost less than fossil fuels in the long run.

This is all saleable, it's all common sense, and nobody has to buy Global Warming if they don't want to.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:51 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Oh, I know the word well, and understand it just fine. Others have grokked my meaning as well, though I fully expected you would not.



So I'm not a lap dog for AlGore, and don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't. Doesn't mean I don't still adhere to the facts or the evidence.




Did I bring up Gore? No?

Oh, right, Rappy desperately trying to distract. SOP. Boring.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't.

What?? You say all the time that the debate is settled, proclaiming that AGW is nothing more than a hoax. Have you changed your views?

It's not personal. It's just war.



Unlike AlGore, I'll keep and open mind. Which is why I said come back in 50 years, then I'll give you an answer. It really may need more like 100 to 500 years, for a more accurate measure, but I'm sure that I REALLY won't care by then. So 50 seems like a fair number.





Let's use the same yardstick for measuring the impact of Islamic terrorism, shall we? After all, more people die every year in this country from peanut allergies than die from terrorist attacks.

So ask me again in 500 years if I'm worried about Muslims, and I'll get back to you then!

Sound fair?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:51 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Oh, I know the word well, and understand it just fine. Others have grokked my meaning as well, though I fully expected you would not.



So I'm not a lap dog for AlGore, and don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't. Doesn't mean I don't still adhere to the facts or the evidence.



You "adhere to the facts or the evidence"? Are you fucking kidding me?

You've provided neither on this topic. What "facts" are you adhering to?

Don't you mean you're adhering to your "claims", not your "facts"?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:37 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


yeah 130 degrees F BELOW ZERO is global warmining.

Quote:

South Pole Station Sets New Record Low: -100.8°F

June 24, 2012

According to the University of Wisconsin, Madison, on June 11, 2012, the South Pole Station measured a new record low temperature.

The mercury dropped to -73.8°C (-100.8°F), breaking the previous minimum temperature record of -73.3°C (-99.9°F) set in 1966.

Must be because of global warming!

http://iceagenow.info/2012/06/south-pole-station-sets-record-low-100-8
%C2%B0f
/



South Pole hits minus 100F mark earliest ever in the winter

By Peter Rejcek, Antarctic Sun Editor
Posted April 20, 2012
It’s no secret that the South Pole in Antarctica is one of the coldest places on Earth.

But this year it got really cold faster than ever, breaking a 30-year-old record for the earliest the temperature has dropped below minus 100 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 73.3 degrees Celsius).

The mercury officially bottomed out at minus 100.1F (minus 73.4C) on April 7 (local time), less than three weeks after the one sunset of the year that occurs at the bottom of the world. Previously, the earliest the temperature had broken the minus 100F barrier was on April 8, 1982 (local time), plummeting down to minus 103.4F (minus 75.2C).

“Climatology shows that it isn’t as atypical as one would think,” said South Pole Station senior meteorologist Dale Herschlag.



A screen shot from the South Pole Station weather scroll marking the dip below minus 100F.
Herschlag said that there have been eight instances where the station has reached the minus 100F milestone in the month of April, with another 13 “close calls,” when the temperature was just a degree or two shy of the mark.

On average, the station typically experiences the first minus 100F day by May. The coldest months are June and July, according to Herschlag. The coldest day ever recorded at the South Pole was on June 23, 1982, hitting minus 117F (minus 82.8C). The average annual temperature is about minus 58F (minus 50C). Climate records at the South Pole began in 1957.

“For the most part, the pattern that set up last week was typical for minus 100F readings,” Herschlag explained. “Typically, in order to get that cold, we would need grid easterly winds for a sustained period of 24-48 hours at a minimum.

“This pushes the pool of coldest continental air from the Antarctic plateau into the South Pole,” he added. “We had been predominantly in the upper 80s to around 90 below zero F for almost a week leading up to this event.”

In fact, just last September, another significant record fell when the peak wind speed was clocked at 58 miles per hour (mph), or 50 knots — the strongest ever at the South Pole. The previous record of 55mph (48kts) was set on Aug. 24, 1989. [See previous article — Windy days: Pole storms bring record-breaking gusts in September.]

The minus 100F barrier also marks the time when Polies wintering over get an opportunity to join the exclusive 300 Club. Membership involves sweating it out in a sauna at 200F for as long as possible and then making a quick trip to the geographic South Pole — all while wearing not much more than a pair of boots.

Herschlag said about a dozen of the 50 winter-overs joined the club for the couple of hours while the temperature fluctuated at the membership level.

http://antarcticsun.usap.gov/features/contenthandler.cfm?id=2643

-95 degrees F Coldest Temperature Ever In The Northern Hemisphere
http://www.real-science.com/coldest-temperature-ever-recorded-in-the-n
orthern-hemisphere-forecast-for-wednesday

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Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:14 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Did I bring up Gore? No?

No, I did. Because AlGore is not only the biggest carnival barker on this subject, he's set himself up to be one of the wealthiest from the promotion of this global scam. And oh yeah, he's one of the biggest HYPOCRITES in the world too, doing exactly what he tells others NOT to do.

Quote:



Oh, right, Rappy desperately trying to distract. SOP. Boring.



And yet, you keep replying. Huh.


And also...


Tree-rings prove climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now - and world has been cooling for 2,000 years
Tree ring study gives first accurate climate reading back to 138BC
World has been slowly cooling for 2,000 years
World was warmer in Roman and Medieval times than it is now
Study of semi-fossilised trees in Finland
By Rob Waugh

PUBLISHED: 07:22 EST, 11 July 2012 | UPDATED: 07:22 EST, 11 July 2012

Rings in fossilised pine trees have proven that the world was much warmer than previously thought - with measurements dating back to 138BC Rings in fossilised pine trees have proven that the world was much warmer than previously thought - and the earth has been slowly COOLING for 2,000 years.

Measurements stretching back to 138BC prove that the Earth is slowly cooling due to changes in the distance between the Earth and the sun.

The finding may force scientists to rethink current theories of the impact of global warming. It is the first time that researchers have been able to accurately measure trends in global temperature over the last two millennia.

Over that time, the world has been getting cooler - and previous estimates, used as the basis for current climate science, are wrong. Their findings demonstrate that this trend involves a cooling of -0.3°C per millennium due to gradual changes to the position of the sun and an increase in the distance between the Earth and the sun.

‘This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant,’ says Esper, ‘however, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. 'Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia.’

The finding was based on semi-fossilised tree rings found in Finnish lapland. Professor Dr. Jan Esper's group at the Institute of Geography at JGU used tree-ring density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees originating from Finnish Lapland to produce a reconstruction reaching back to 138 BC.

In so doing, the researchers have been able for the first time to precisely demonstrate that the long-term trend over the past two millennia has been towards climatic cooling.

‘We found that previous estimates of historical temperatures during the Roman era and the Middle Ages were too low,’ says Esper. ‘Such findings are also significant with regard to climate policy, as they will influence the way today's climate changes are seen in context of historical warm periods.’

The annual growth rings in trees are the most important witnesses over the past 1,000 to 2,000 years as they indicate how warm and cool past climate conditions were.

The density measurements correlate closely with the summer temperatures in this area on the edge of the Nordic taiga; the researchers were thus able to create a temperature reconstruction of unprecedented quality.

The reconstruction provides a high-resolution representation of temperature patterns in the Roman and Medieval Warm periods, but also shows the cold phases that occurred during the Migration Period and the later Little Ice Age.

In addition to the cold and warm phases, the new climate curve also exhibits a phenomenon that was not expected in this form.

For the first time, researchers have now been able to use the data derived from tree-rings to precisely calculate a much longer-term cooling trend that has been playing out over the past 2,000 years.


Anthony is still a lying sack of go-se
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 12, 2012 12:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Let's use the same yardstick for measuring the impact of Islamic terrorism, shall we? After all, more people die every year in this country from peanut allergies than die from terrorist attacks.

So ask me again in 500 years if I'm worried about Muslims, and I'll get back to you then!

Sound fair?



Don't forget to bring your prayer rug.

And classic non sequitur, with the peanut allergies bit. I guess you're cool with an oppressive religious cult, controlling your every thought, as long as you're still alive, huh?

Better dead than Islam-ed.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:23 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Link, rappy?

Quote:

Rings in fossilised pine trees have proven that the world was much warmer than previously thought

It seems to me that this study gives us an insight into the temperature record of Finland, NOT the whole world. Think about it rappy: these fossilised pine trees were from one region of Finland; can we be certain that they give us accurate temperature records for Argentina, Japan, Liberia?

It's well known that in Medieval times the temperature was very warm in some parts of the world - namely Northern Europe and North America - but globally temperatures were cooler.

Some further reading: http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm

ETA: It's funny, the last time I debated a climate skeptic he was completely dismissive of tree rings as a reliable proxy for temperature. There's no orthodoxy in climate skepticism it seems...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, July 12, 2012 4:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2171973/Tree-ring-study
-proves-climate-WARMER-Roman-Medieval-times-modern-industrial-age.html


Hello KPO,

I noticed you quoted some material looking for a source.

I did a search and got a hit that seems fairly close to what you were looking for.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:13 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I believe that polluting less and using renewable energy are items that can be sold on their own merits, using purely selfish motivators.


They could indeed.
*IF*, that is what these debates were actually ABOUT.
And one side, the other, or even sometimes both - most of the time that ain't the case.

-Frem

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Friday, July 13, 2012 3:17 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

I recommend "The Age of Stupid," starring Pete Postlethwaite.
"a man living alone in the devasted world of 2055, looking back at archive footage
from 2007 and asking: why didn't we stop climate change when we had the chance?"




In a few years, my grandsons may ask, "Why didn't we stop climate change when we had
the chance?" Will they remember their parents' complete, concrete denial of it?

To those here in adamant denial ... Hey! Wouldn't you like cleaner air, cleaner water?
Or have you never lived in a big city where you can see the smog-air?

Signyn, remind me not to speak to the purposely deaf!!




This is a great idea for a movie. It's movies like this that I've seen in the last 20 years, much of them low-budget late-night Showtime movies by studios like Lionsgate before they became more mainstream. I'm sure a lot of them have somehow shaped some of my recycling habits.

Even though I know that it's just a politically motivated movie in my old and cynical age, I do realize that this will have as profound an impact on the children of today, so it does have that going for it.



The problem O, is that the TECH prices NEVER seem to reach a "sweet-spot". I've been waiting 7 years for solar tech to become cheap like computers or blu-ray or video games. It never happens though, because nobody is buying them....

When Pete Postlethwaite asks "Why didn't we save ourselves when we had the chance?", my answer to that VERY important question is because in a world of 6.6 billion people, only 200,000 people could afford to "save" us.



I suggest MASSIVE federal rebates on solar and wind tech when it comes to non-for-profit and residential usage. In reverse, I also suggest that any "surplus energies" gained by the "grid" by people using these techs not be refunded, but go to pay for the programs to allow more people who would never be able to buy this tech at the price install their own.

Eventually, 80% of Americans would have enough solar power to take care of half of their daily needs with little cost to them, and I think that with the surplus power, the government could break even in a few years. The tech would go way down in price since there would be so many buyers.

In my mind this is the ONLY way for us to save ourselves.

If you don't give people financial incentive today to save the world, especially when it costs more than most Americans can afford to live day to day, they they aren't going to do it on their own.

I'd LOVE to have solar panels installed (and better yet, learn how to install them myself), but I still need 1,200 bucks to shell out on gutters the previous owners scrapped, and a generator for the sump pump if the electric fails. Kind of hard to do on roughly 380 dollars every two weeks after taxes......


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Friday, July 13, 2012 3:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Anthony, I would have no problem with what you suggested; I'd love to see it enacted for ALL today's energy producers, actually. I'm assuming "profit" is part of the 80%, given insurance companies are for-profit entities; if not, they wouldn't exist.

The figure, by the way, is 80%; anything above that is to be REBATED to the customers. I'd be quite happy with that being required of energy companies; I have little doubt new alternative-energy companies put at least that much into their costs (tho' not existing oil or gas companies, by far!), but I'd be happier to see any extra put toward further development of VIABLE alternative-energies, which leaves out ethanol, which I think is as poorly-understood as "clean coal" (which isn't) or how the "environment is protected" by fracking.

Are there valid reasons that wouldn't work for energy companies?

And yes, it would be nice if Raptor offered cites for the material he puts up, but nobody's holding their breath for that, are they?

The fact that the argument against climate change is also made only for Finland seems rather meaningless when considering the entire globe; something global might have more meaning.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 4:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Further on the subject:
Quote:

Farmers suffer as soaring temperatures worsen drought in Midwest



A severe drought is spreading across the Midwest this summer, resulting in some of the worst conditions in decades and leaving more than a thousand counties designated as natural disaster areas, authorities said.

Farmers in the region are suffering, with pastures for livestock and fields of crops becoming increasingly parched during June, according to the National Climatic Data Center. Many areas in the southern Midwest are reporting the poorest conditions for June since 1988.

The farmers' difficulties come amid a record-setting level of hot, dry weather across the nation

As of Tuesday, about 61% of the contiguous United States (excluding Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico) was experiencing drought conditions, the highest percentage in the 12-year record of the U.S. Drought Monitor.

The past 12 months have been the warmest the United States has experienced since records began in 1895, the climatic data center said.

You deniers can spare yourselves the effort, I'll do it for you: "It's hot in Summer, cold in Winter; so what?" Hotter than anything since 1895...yup, that's perfectly normal.
Quote:

A map of significant climate events for the United States in June looks almost apocalyptic: hellish heat, ferocious fires and severe storms leaving people injured, homeless and even dead.

That followed a warm winter and early season droughts. And on Tuesday, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) released a report calling 2011 a year of extreme weather.

"As we change the climate, we're shifting the odds for extreme weather," Chris Field, founding director of the Carnegie Institution's Department of Global Ecology, said. It's sort of like upping your chances of a car accident if you're speeding. The four classes of extremes -- high heat, heavy precipitation and floods, duration and intensity of droughts and extremes related to higher sea levels -- have changed in the last 50 years, Field said.

"When you've got a planet that's nearest warmest levels on record, that doesn't mean every part of the world is going to be the warmest ever," said Jeff Masters, director of meteorology for Weather Underground.

"The U.S. has been unlucky enough to be in that sort of pattern," he said. "Increasingly, we are loading the dice towards these very damaging kinds of extremes."

In 2011, two back-to-back La Niñas, each characterized by cooler-than-average water temperatures in the eastern Pacific, affected significant weather events -- including droughts in the southern United States and northern Mexico and in east Africa.

There is debate over how climate change affects such weather patterns but the NOAA-led "state of the climate" report said La Niña-related heat waves are now 20 times more likely to occur than 50 years ago.

Scientists also analyzed the United Kingdom's very warm November 2011 and a very cold December 2010. They said that cold Decembers are now half as likely to occur versus 50 years ago, whereas warm Novembers are now 62 times more likely.

This year, the United States has already lived through four named storms -- two in May and two in June. The last was Tropical Storm Debby, which flooded Florida.

The warmer waters can lead to warmer temperatures on land, Downs said. So can extended drought.

"The biggest thing of this year is the cumulative effect of the last two seasons. Some parts of the United States have been under drought conditions for the past two years," he said, and did not have much rain in April and May. Less solar energy is absorbed by hot, parched land.

"The drought amplifies temperatures -- 90 becomes 100. 100 becomes 105."

Americans and others will likely be paying a lot more for cereal, sweeteners and meat as the price of corn goes up because of failed crops.

"The crops are hurting," said Chad Hart, a grain market specialist at Iowa State University.

The eastern part of the Corn Belt is especially hard-hit. In states like Iowa, farmers are in the critical stage of corn pollination.

"We need a good inch of moisture this week," Hart said. "And there's no rain in the forecast. "That means we are looking for a much lower yield for crops we produce in the Midwest."

That means farmers will be devastated and consumers could see higher prices at the grocery store for corn, soy and wheat products, as well as meat from animals raised on corn feed.

They will also be paying more to utility companies for running air-conditioners as the sizzling summer continues.

The hottest year on record for the United States is 1998. Jake Crouch, a climate scientist at the National Climatic Data Center, said 2012 is on track to beat it. Perhaps people should get used to hotter temperatures, experts say, because the trends point that way. A heatwave that occurred every 20 years will, by the year 2080, occur every one to two years, Field said. http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/10/world/unusual-world-weather/index.html








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Friday, July 13, 2012 4:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:everything Nikki said...




If we were this age in 1988, knowing all that we did now.......

We'd be saying all the same things....


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Friday, July 13, 2012 6:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Not only do I think global climate shift is occurring, I think that along with population increase is going to make food more and more expensive.

So, I put my money where my mouth is (so to speak): I invested in agricultural futures. As of this point, I made a tidy 20% gain.

Proof of the pudding is in the successful prediction. Gotta ask... how many times have rappy and the know-nothings successfully predicted (or even understood) anything?

Those so-called free-market capitalists should hang their heads in shame for their lack of savvy.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 6:56 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not only do I think global climate shift is occurring, I think that along with population increase is going to make food more and more expensive.

So, I put my money where my mouth is (so to speak): I invested in agricultural futures. As of this point, I made a tidy 20% gain.

Proof of the pudding is in the successful prediction. Gotta ask... how many times have rappy and the know-nothings successfully predicted (or even understood) anything?

Those so-called free-market capitalists should hang their heads in shame for their lack of savvy.


So I have to ask Signy, just what exactly did you contribute to society for your healthy 20% gain?

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Friday, July 13, 2012 7:01 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Perhaps it is the Ron Paul principle of wanting a thing reformed, but also taking the money that's out there to be had until the reform happens.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, July 13, 2012 7:08 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

set himself up to be one of the wealthiest from the promotion of this global scam.

Global scam, lol. Your open minded-ness on this issue didn't last very long, AU.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 7:17 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Open mindedness has a half-life shorter than the most radioactive compounds.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, July 13, 2012 7:19 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2171973/Tree-ring-study
-proves-climate-WARMER-Roman-Medieval-times-modern-industrial-age.html





Interesting, that's a different article to the one Rappy posted... But I did a google search and found someone posting the same article as Rappy but citing the same Daily Mail link that you posted... ( http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2928123-What-will-t
he-Cult-of-Global-Warming-do-now
).

Did the Daily Mail pull its own article and replace it? Out of embarrassment maybe?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 7:22 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Niki, thanx for posting the drought map from CNN.com. I was gonna post it here myself, but couldn't work out the correct link.

It MAY NOT PROVE global Warming, but it certainly is strong evidence. A drought is a prolonged condition or trend of hotter, dryer weather. Not just a few days or even weeks of a hot spell of some sort. And a bunch of the country is having one- most of the West, the southern half of the Rockies and Great Plains, part of the Old South.

If it continues, thru this year's growing season,and into next year's, that certainly could be proof of GW, as well as having a severe economic effect in its own right.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 7:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2171973/Tree-ring-study
-proves-climate-WARMER-Roman-Medieval-times-modern-industrial-age.html





Interesting, that's a different article to the one Rappy posted... But I did a google search and found someone posting the same article as Rappy but citing the same Daily Mail link that you posted... ( http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2928123-What-will-t
he-Cult-of-Global-Warming-do-now
).

Did the Daily Mail pull its own article and replace it? Out of embarrassment maybe?

It's not personal. It's just war.



Hello,

Possibly. The article has been revised at least once.

Or possibly more than one venue reported on similar data.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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