REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Making a Major Deal out of a Minority Character

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Sunday, June 17, 2012 20:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1192
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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 1:43 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://geekout.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/12/is-a-comic-book-characters-sex
ual-orientation-really-news/?hpt=hp_bn11


Hello,

I was reading this article, and I decided the best way to integrate homosexuals into comics is to do so without fanfare. There need be no grand declaration, no heightened anticipation. A character can just be gay, as one facet of their being, and dwelled upon no more than the plot demands. I think to go the other route, where you light up neon and point and say, "LOOK, A GAY PERSON!" I think that just demeans the whole proceeding and takes away from the story. Years ago there would sometimes be a big deal made about a hispanic superhero, or a jewish superhero, or a black superhero. I'd rather that all these characteristics were simply handled in stride as an unremarkable fact.

--Anthony

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 1:58 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


For once, I have nothing to say.

You summed that up just about perfect Anthony.

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:09 PM

HERO


The Flash is also gay.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
The Flash is also gay.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012



Are you making fun of his costume, or is that for real?

If we're just making fun of costumes, Captain America and his wings are gay too

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:03 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I was going to suggest the word 'lame' for fashion critiques but then I realized it may be an affront to the differently abled.

I'm not sure what a good, inoffensive word would be. "Sucky" doesn't quite capture the spirit.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:08 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Anyway, this purports to be a list of homosexual characters in the DC universe:

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Homosexual_Characters

I know that if I created a comic character who was gay, I'd want people to think, "Wow, what a great character" first and foremost.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:09 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Its really "lame" when people step all over themselves trying to be too politically correct. It doesn't become you Anthony, or anyone else. Cnscienciousness is one thing, but fanaticism about it is another. Note that I'm not saying this in regard to the topic, just saying it as a response to your last post.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:54 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Its really "lame" when people step all over themselves trying to be too politically correct. It doesn't become you Anthony, or anyone else. Cnscienciousness is one thing, but fanaticism about it is another. Note that I'm not saying this in regard to the topic, just saying it as a response to your last post.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.



Hello,

I appreciate your efforts to make me a better person.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:13 PM

BYTEMITE


I also struggle with not using the word "lame". I do reedit sometimes when I notice a slip to something that is more eloquent and not slang.

Thankfully I don't have the bad habit of using "gay" or "retarded" as a negative like some people do. I have no real desire to try to subvert people's expectations here or reclaim a word for freedom of speech (or more commonly, flame bait) reasons.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Good one, Anthony (your last remark). Personally, I don't think any of what you wrote has anything to do with "fanaticism", but more to the very real situation of including all minorities in aspects of life. Being gay is as difficult today as being Jewish or Black has been (and currently, still is for the latter). Including them quietly in various forms of media/entertainment is merely representing life as it is in reality, something most entertainment does only when pushed, for the most part.

It IS important, in my opinion. Remember the kerfuffle about Dumbledor being gay, and how some "Christian" parents reacted, even tho' Dumbledor's homosexuality wasn't mentioned in the books. When people know someone gay, especially if they didn't know it until they knew the person very well, it lessens the homophobia and helps people learn that we're all PEOPLE, that's been proven to be the case. Integrating gay characters into movies, tv, even comics, is a good way to make being that, or black or hispanic or whatever, more mainstream...especially when it's a character who is viewed positively. I see nothing fanatical about that, but more than it's a good thing to do for society. The less individuals are viewed as the "other", the healthier it is for all.

Personally, I view it as thoughtful and forward-thinking of you, Anthony. JMHO


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Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:30 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I was reading this article, and I decided the best way to integrate homosexuals into comics is to do so without fanfare.



Not gonna happen. It's a struggling industry that will take any opprotunity to get some extra press.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 11:29 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Hi Niki, I wasn't saying Anthony's attitude toward gay comic book charactors is fanatical, his attitude makes sense. I'm saying his clumsy attempts to not say lame were fanatical. Too much political correctness is kind of lame. Now if someone had legitimately come on here and said it hurt their feelings to hear him say it then I could definitely see him trying not to say it again, Anthony is a kind soul after all. But being too politically correct without prodding is kind of tiresome. But being somewhat pc is a good thing, moderation in all things I guess.

I agree with Anthony that if a comic book charactor happens to be gay its just one thing about them, and it makes sense to portray it as such, a facet of a person that doesn't wholly define them or bring about fanfare.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 11:38 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I'm saying his clumsy attempts to not say lame were fanatical.


Hello,

I'll do my best not to say anything (or I guess in this case, fail to say something) that will offend you in the future, and I appreciate the critique of my communication style.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:22 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Anthony you're a sweet soul, there's no way to never offend anyone, that's just life. I'm not always very patient these days, I'm sorry.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Haha.... Political Correctness is lame and gay....




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Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Anthony you're a sweet soul, there's no way to never offend anyone, that's just life. I'm not always very patient these days, I'm sorry.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.




Riona, you have vision issues, correct? Do expressions like "the blind leading the blind" bother you at all? Just because an expression doesn't offend you because it doesn't use your particular affliction to cast other things in a negative light, does not mean it's not offensive to others.

I don't really get offended, but I can see the point of people not wanting to be described as "lame" because they're handicapped.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 6:02 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I kind of thought this thread was going to be about this story at first:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/entertainment/2018437130_bushhea
d15.html


Quote:

HBO sorry 'Game of Thrones' put Bush's fake head on a pike
The producers of HBO's "Game of Thrones" said use of a prop severed head bearing George W. Bush's likeness was not a political statement.





So they just happened to have a Dubya SEVERED HEAD lying around, I guess. Huh. Wonder why they'd have that.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, June 15, 2012 4:47 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Haha.... Political Correctness is lame and gay....



Pretty much exactly the flame bait attitude I was talking about.

You think you're freer than most, but you have a predictable knee jerk reaction to what you see as PC by immediately being not PC. You're as bound up by conventions and political correctness as everyone else, just in the opposite way. My parents make racist jokes just to be shocking, so I know how this works, and am used to it.

In short PC versus Anti-PC are both stupid. PC is dumb because they have an overreaction to everything while the politically incorrect snicker about it. Anti-PC is dumb because they're only selectively politically incorrect, and because they attack people for self-editing, when the whole point of Anti-PC is to fight back against people trying to force OTHER people to conform.

I never see anyone who self-identifies as politically incorrect refer to everyone equally as bitches, dickheads, and other slurs, such as "cracker," until the words become just words without any meaning. Instead, they always have their specific slurs and pet-issues, usually directed at the specific groups in question. That kind of behaviour just confirms the stereotype, instead of subverts it. And then when they give a knee-jerk response to individual efforts to not use slurs, they're just missing the point.

Basically, this is yet more ridiculous divisive labeling left wing versus right wing nonsense.

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Friday, June 15, 2012 6:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


'Nother good one, Anthony; you make me smile. I think she has some difficulty discerning sarcasm. Personally, I think a rant about political correctness being "lame" regarding a sarcastic comment is equally silly as what I first thought she was saying. I guess you're just to subtle, Anthony. And by the way, the last thing I would call you is "sweet", tho' I've never found you "offensive" either. I can think of myriad positive things I could say about you, but...hey, how about I go on a rant about calling an intelligent, ballsy, independent, feisty and thinking person "sweet", that it demeans them, makes them sound wimpy, and, and, and...

When we start demeaning someone with passive-aggressive terminology after raving at them about their choice of verbiage...nah, it's not worth it. Equally irrelevant.

(If you're wondering why I call it "passive-aggressive", let's just say that coming down on someone by ranting about a comment, then kissy-kissy telling them they're "sweet", is MY definition of same. Your mileage may vary.)


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Friday, June 15, 2012 6:37 AM

BYTEMITE


That's not passive aggressive. It's being emotionally inconsistent.

This is coming from someone who has been called both "passive aggressive" and "sweet" who is absolutely neither.

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Friday, June 15, 2012 8:34 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I don't really get offended....



That used to be our battle cry on a Friday night in high school, "What do you want to do tonight? Let's go get offended." Of course we failed every time.
It really should be a new thread though, "Let's see if we can offend Kwicko" - maybe for when it gets real slow.
Fwiw - those unripe, hard as rock tomatoes they sell at the local giant Fud Mart? They offend me deeply.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, June 15, 2012 1:20 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I don't really get offended....



That used to be our battle cry on a Friday night in high school, "What do you want to do tonight? Let's go get offended." Of course we failed every time.
It really should be a new thread though, "Let's see if we can offend Kwicko" - maybe for when it gets real slow.
Fwiw - those unripe, hard as rock tomatoes they sell at the local giant Fud Mart? They offend me deeply.




Let's try to offend me. I'm down with it.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, June 15, 2012 1:21 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

This is coming from someone who has been called both "passive aggressive" and "sweet" who is absolutely neither.
Well, since it "came" from me...have I been called passive aggressive...and SWEET?! I must have missed that.

Also, depends on whether it's done intentionally or not. Emotionally inconsistent if it's unintentional; psssive aggressive if it's intentional. JMHO


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Friday, June 15, 2012 1:37 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I was pretty much being sarcastic there Byte. I'm not really sure if you were talking "at" me here or using me as some sort of example. Or possibly you were showing your dislike for the South Park episode, or dislike that I liked the South Park episode.

There's nothing wrong with me not liking how nobody today says what they want to say because of fear of offending somebody within earshot. It's insane how bad it has gotten. My "white" aunt got fired from a good job with benefits recently. She was working alone with another "white" co-worker who happened to have a mixed child of her own. My aunt's daughter goes to a school where there are only about 5% white people. During a conversation, the other girl said to her "you don't let her date black guys, do you?", to which my aunt replied "She knows not to drink the tainted water".

Racist comment? Sure....

My aunt's only mistake though was not claiming total innocence for the statement when HR pulled her in the back 3 weeks later since it was a "she said, she said" argument".

This was a working woman who's children depended on her income and the health insurance benefits the job provided. She wasn't given a warning, she was flat out fired. Do NOT pass Go, Do NOT collect 200 dollars. They successfully denied her any unemployment benefits after the fact as well, even though she'd been paying that insurance for over 10 years with the company.



Talk about crippling freedom of speech through the use of fear.

Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Haha.... Political Correctness is lame and gay....



Pretty much exactly the flame bait attitude I was talking about.

You think you're freer than most, but you have a predictable knee jerk reaction to what you see as PC by immediately being not PC. You're as bound up by conventions and political correctness as everyone else, just in the opposite way. My parents make racist jokes just to be shocking, so I know how this works, and am used to it.

In short PC versus Anti-PC are both stupid. PC is dumb because they have an overreaction to everything while the politically incorrect snicker about it. Anti-PC is dumb because they're only selectively politically incorrect, and because they attack people for self-editing, when the whole point of Anti-PC is to fight back against people trying to force OTHER people to conform.

I never see anyone who self-identifies as politically incorrect refer to everyone equally as bitches, dickheads, and other slurs, such as "cracker," until the words become just words without any meaning. Instead, they always have their specific slurs and pet-issues, usually directed at the specific groups in question. That kind of behaviour just confirms the stereotype, instead of subverts it. And then when they give a knee-jerk response to individual efforts to not use slurs, they're just missing the point.

Basically, this is yet more ridiculous divisive labeling left wing versus right wing nonsense.




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Friday, June 15, 2012 2:36 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

This is coming from someone who has been called both "passive aggressive" and "sweet" who is absolutely neither.

Well, since it "came" from me...have I been called passive aggressive...and SWEET?! I must have missed that.



Er... I meant I'VE been called those. I was using it as a counterpoint to suggest that I know what it is to mistakenly be called passive aggressive and sweet.

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Friday, June 15, 2012 2:39 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

There's nothing wrong with me not liking how nobody today says what they want to say because of fear of offending somebody within earshot.


and then you use an example that is basically the opposite thing happening.

Maybe none of us actually want to say shit like that, and it's you projecting on us that we do? It's like you haven't even considered that some people don't go around thinking about "all these damn MINORITY people and this sensitivity" all the time.

When I say "lame" I consider it a bad habit that I'm trying to break, as much as I try not to say "awesome" and "epic" and "cool."

In any event, you're not exactly helping your case here.

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Friday, June 15, 2012 3:48 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


My case is my case and it's sound to me. My aunt and her kids now, have to accept government benefits, because of what she said. No warning... nothing. No good references for the past 10 years as a competent manager.... nothing.

I got to pay 10 bucks a pack, for the kids.... but nobody considered her kids in that situation.

All I'm saying is that there should have been a warning, a shaking of hands, and that is that.

No need to ruin the life of a white woman and her kids and make them beholden to government benefits since she made one off remark.

If you don't understand that Byte, I don't know who else will, and freedom of speech is truly dead....




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Friday, June 15, 2012 6:00 PM

BYTEMITE


It's a red herring argument, man. Your aunt's situation, while regrettable for the sake of her kids, has very little to do with this argument about how those of us on the board are not "honest" with ourselves about our latent dislike of minorities.

I'm saying, don't tell people what they think or don't think, or you end up just as guilty as the PC types.

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Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

All I'm saying is that there should have been a warning, a shaking of hands, and that is that.
I agree with that, and I think it would be what happens in most cases.

ETA: On the same subject: http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/15/nr-pkg-
costello-gay-ads.cnn



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Saturday, June 16, 2012 3:58 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

All I'm saying is that there should have been a warning, a shaking of hands, and that is that.
I agree with that, and I think it would be what happens in most cases.

ETA: On the same subject: http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/video/bestoftv/2012/06/15/nr-pkg-
costello-gay-ads.cnn


]

I know that is what happened at my old job.

Basic HR strategy for weeding out this undesirable behavior in the workplace was simple and fair.

Before somebody went to HR with a complaint, they were to stand up for themselves and let it be known that whatever offensive comments were being made were not appreciated. If this didn't stop the behavior, the person could then go to HR and file a complaint. The offending individual(s) would then be pulled into the HR offices and be warned that their behavior would not be further tolerated. If it ended there, all was good in the world. If not, they got pulled back in again and unless they could make a very compelling case that they didn't continue with that behavior and were being framed, they were axed without unemployment benefits.

This went for racisim, sexuality remarks and unwanted sexual gestures.

The only time I ever knew anyone who was fired immediately was when they e-mailed a picture of male genetalia to some of the girls on his shift. They were all friends, and I heard it was just a joke, and the girls didn't file a complaint or want to see him fired, but that was after the first buyout and they started to read our emails out in India.

I can't really complain about that one though. You're a fool for sending stuff like that when you know full well that any email sent to and from company servers become property of the company. No he-said, she-said there.... just cold hard facts.


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Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:00 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Anthony is able to let people know he's offended without calling them names, he sort of goes about it sideways which is just fine with me usually. He seems like someone who really does want to get along with others so calling him sweet wasn't meant as an insult in any way.

Good question Quicko. That doesn't bother me for the most part. It would only bother me if someone was making a joke like that about me specifically, other than that, just used as an expression to mean someone who doesn't know what to do trying to teach someone, its a common usage so I overlook it, even though I find it a little odd. But I don't care if someone says it in context.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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