REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

To the Progressives

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Friday, June 15, 2012 15:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2973
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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 10:41 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Do you really think the military will fight for you?

The Army?

The Navy?

The MARINES?

I'm sure you would give the order. But would they follow it?



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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 11:00 AM

BYTEMITE


At the very top most level I'm not sure they follow anyone's orders, conservative, liberal, or progressive. Government is their puppet, not the other way around. If they have to lie about intel to get a desired outcome, they'll do it, and feel perfectly justified that they're the only ones who know how to protect the country. They don't tend to listen much to civilians.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 11:04 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
I'm sure you would give the order. But would they follow it?


Well, I'm not sure I'd give the order, but yeah, they'd follow it. They follow orders. They fight on the thoughtful decisions as well as whims of our leaders. It's what they do. God bless them.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 11:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Might depend on the order ?


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 12:13 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Your question is incomprehensible. I freely admit that said incomprehensibility may be a product of my long-term huffing of gasoline, or my recently acquired taste for bath salts, which are delicious and life affirming.

Near as I can tell, you wonder if "progressives" believe that the military would follow the orders of a progressive president. Assuming in arguendo that Obama is a progressive, does that answer your question?

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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 12:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MINCINGBEAST:
Your question is incomprehensible. I freely admit that said incomprehensibility may be a product of my long-term huffing of gasoline, or my recently acquired taste for bath salts, which are delicious and life affirming.

Near as I can tell, you wonder if "progressives" believe that the military would follow the orders of a progressive president. Assuming in arguendo that Obama is a progressive, does that answer your question?



My 'guess', and that's all this is, is that this thread stems from the absurd array of tweets and other social media expressions where Dems in Wisconsin ( along w/ assorted other Lefties, socialists, anarchists, etc... ) made clear their feelings towards the winning candidate, and still Gov of their state, Scott Walker.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/06/wisconsin-authorities-inves
tigating-death-threats-tweeted-to-governor-scott
/

Perhaps the implication being, that if it comes down to some sort of armed conflict, an ACTUAL civil war, that the military would side with conservatives rather than follow the orders of a Left wing President.

( If I've missed the boat on this, please, let me know. )



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 12:23 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

or my recently acquired taste for bath salts, which are delicious and life affirming.



That's not bath salts, that's a squirrel. Though it does appear you've acquired a taste for both.

Do you need a towel? Or are you saving all that for later consumption?

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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 12:33 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Thank you for the clarification, Mr. Raptor. It still makes no sense to me.

I can imagine a reb', like Robert E. Lee refusing to follow the orders of his "progressive" President and fighting for the South. I cannot imagine many soldiers turning their backs on their obligations because they don't support gay marriage or the total destruction of all labor unions, everywhere.

Would it surprise you to learn that in addition to being a left-wing nihilist with bath salts on his upper lip, I have devoted my professional life to busting unions? This is not 1906, and unions are not the bro' of the working man. They are functionally medieval guilds that exist to protect the privileges of a select few, everyone one else be damned.


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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 12:40 PM

MINCINGBEAST


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

or my recently acquired taste for bath salts, which are delicious and life affirming.



That's not bath salts, that's a squirrel. Though it does appear you've acquired a taste for both.

Do you need a towel? Or are you saving all that for later consumption?



I am never without that most massively useful thing.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 1:00 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
Do you really think the military will fight for you?

The Army?

The Navy?

The MARINES?

I'm sure you would give the order. But would they follow it?





*Looks at the military following the current President's orders*

That would be a yes...next stupid question.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, June 6, 2012 4:30 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Wulfie, do you really think they'd fight for YOU?

We know you'd love to give the order - round up and kill all progressives. You've said it often enough.

Do you think they'd follow you?

Do you even think your own wife and child would follow you down that road?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 5:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Can't figure out what the hell this thread is supposed to be about. Is someone suggesting something that would cause the military to fight...what, us? "Us" of either side? In my opinion, that's a stupid question. If the military were ordered to fight ANYONE, I think it would be anyone who was rebelling, and rebellion is possible on either side (or none!). I don't think it's even an intelligent question, really, as rebellion would be by PEOPLE, not "progressives" or "conservatives", but people who feel they've been oppressed.

I hate to tell you, Wulf, but there are lots of people who vote Republican who would have reasons to fight if it came to that, against even a Republican government. Rebellions come down to PEOPLE, not political parties--the political parties don't want us fighting, period! If it ever comes down to a rebellion, it will be against the GOVERNMENT...whatever government is in power.

Just as an aside, it seems to me those most threatening rebellion, "second amendment" stuff and secession have been on the RIGHT in recent years, haven't they?

I guess this is just more Wulf black-and-white bullshit, that's all I can figure.


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Thursday, June 7, 2012 7:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)



Progressive? Let me tell you about Progressive.



Flo says "I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by putting it in reverse and leaving the scene of the accident!"




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 8:55 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"My 'guess', and that's all this is, is that this thread stems from the absurd array of tweets and other social media expressions where Dems in Wisconsin ( along w/ assorted other Lefties, socialists, anarchists, etc... ) made clear their feelings towards the winning candidate, and still Gov of their state, Scott Walker."

I apologize. My posts are never as clear as I would like them to be.

Here is a clarification...

Considering the agenda that the left has put forth (i.e. gun control-Fast and Furious, ObamaCare, increased taxation, increased surveillance-drones, forced multi-culturalism-racism, government takover of business, etc)

The only way to bring about your North Korean vision of the future is through use of force.

So do you think the military would do as you've asked?

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 9:14 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
The only way to bring about your North Korean vision of the future is through use of force.

So do you think the military would do as you've asked?


No. I don't. It's actually why I'm moving to North Korea next month.
Plus: I've taken Tae Kwon Do.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 9:25 AM

BYTEMITE


Really?

(Gullible)

There's sometimes, in the middle of conversations, where people are going "you DON'T KNOW THE POWER of the DARK SIDE" and "Search your feelings, you know it be true!" and there's me thinking "jedi gibberish hhmmmmn fwoosh kwang foosh crackle hmmmn more jedi gibberish, press A to skip dialogue..."

And then I get to the part where it asks me if I want to repeat what was just said and I'M HOLDING DOWN 'A' AS HARD AS I CAN. D:

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 9:39 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
"My 'guess', and that's all this is, is that this thread stems from the absurd array of tweets and other social media expressions where Dems in Wisconsin ( along w/ assorted other Lefties, socialists, anarchists, etc... ) made clear their feelings towards the winning candidate, and still Gov of their state, Scott Walker."

I apologize. My posts are never as clear as I would like them to be.

Here is a clarification...

Considering the agenda that the left has put forth (i.e. gun control-Fast and Furious, ObamaCare, increased taxation, increased surveillance-drones, forced multi-culturalism-racism, government takover of business, etc)

The only way to bring about your North Korean vision of the future is through use of force.

So do you think the military would do as you've asked?

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."



Wulf, seriously, who do you think you're talking to? Who here is one of these "progs" that intends to turn this country into North Korea? There is no "you" here that would ask any such thing of the military. This is so beyond absurdly rude and dishonest to pretend that anyone here has such an agenda. Just whole-heartedly rude. And nothing more.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 9:48 AM

STORYMARK


More paranoid right wing zealotry from the Wulftard. Boring.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 1:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
"My 'guess', and that's all this is, is that this thread stems from the absurd array of tweets and other social media expressions where Dems in Wisconsin ( along w/ assorted other Lefties, socialists, anarchists, etc... ) made clear their feelings towards the winning candidate, and still Gov of their state, Scott Walker."

I apologize. My posts are never as clear as I would like them to be.

Here is a clarification...

Considering the agenda that the left has put forth (i.e. gun control-Fast and Furious, ObamaCare, increased taxation, increased surveillance-drones, forced multi-culturalism-racism, government takover of business, etc)

The only way to bring about your North Korean vision of the future is through use of force.

So do you think the military would do as you've asked?

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."




In a word, Yes. I believe they would indeed do just that, if ordered.

They went door to door during Katrina, confiscating weapons.

They have opened fire on their own pensioners in DC.

They have opened fire on unarmed students at universities.

They have invaded countless nations and killed countless numbers of innocent civilians, all because they were "asked to".

So if they were ordered to fire on you and your tea-bagging friends, I am reasonably sure they would do so. If they were ordered to fire on the Occupy protesters, I am reasonably sure they would do so as well.

The big difference between you and me, though, is that I find all of these upsetting and appalling, while you actually seem to cheer the prospect of that last scenario playing out that way.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 7, 2012 2:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:

The only way to bring about your North Korean vision of the future is through use of force.

So do you think the military would do as you've asked?

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."



They could use force, or more likely simply lie, or litigate their way into controlling us all. Those seem to be the more preferred Left wing tactics.

As Representative John Dingel ( D ), so famously said... " It takes a long time... to control the people. "

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Friday, June 8, 2012 5:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

(i.e. gun control-Fast and Furious, ObamaCare, increased taxation, increased surveillance-drones, forced multi-culturalism-racism, government takover of business, etc)
If he weren't just so damned dumb, Wulf would be funny.

Let's see...WHAT gun control has there been under Obama?
WHAT increased taxation has there been under Obama?
WHAT government takeover of business has there been under Obama?

Prove any of the above, I dare you. Or go on living in your fantasy world where everything is black and white and everyone is either the friend or the enemy. Or better, do us all a favor and go back to your "heroic" fantasy movies and TV until you grow up.


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Friday, June 8, 2012 6:36 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
"My 'guess', and that's all this is,



HA! He's not even sure why he starts his own threads, and must "guess" at his own reasons.

I can't stop laughing at this fool.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, June 8, 2012 6:48 AM

HKCAVALIER


Story, he was quoting Niki.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, June 8, 2012 7:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Cav, actually, the wording of "guess" is a quote from Raptor. So supposedly Wulf is saying "that this thread stems from the absurd array of tweets and other social media expressions..." about the Wisconsin recall. I think Raptor's right in that this is what gave Wulf the original idea...and from that he extrapolates that Dems think the military will back them?!?! Are you KIDDING? That is a leap that even my most fantastical imagination can't make! I mean, is he KIDDING? When you consider ALL the rhetoric out of 2010,

The ad with the "founding fathers" urging people to get their guns,

Beck's talk of "rivers of blood", and "grab a torch",

All the Tea Partiers quoting Jefferson's "tree of liberty" being refreshed with the "blood of tyrants",

Robert Lowry shooting at a human-shaped target that had Wasserman Schulz’s initials written next to it,

Stephen Broden saying violent revolution was "on the table", and that "we have a right to get rid of that government and to get rid of it by any means necessary. Our nation was founded on violence",

Dale Peterson running an ad of himself standing with a gun saying "I'll take no prisoners",

Richard Behney telling an audience that they didn’t have to resort to armed insurrection — “yet”,

Sharron Angle's cute “People are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying, my goodness, what can we do to turn this country around? I’ll tell you, the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out,”

Bachman saying “I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous.... Thomas Jefferson told us having a revolution every now and then is a good thing",

Rep. Gregg Harper (R-MS) claiming “We hunt liberal, tree-hugging Democrats, although it does seem like a waste of good ammunition”,

Joyce Kaufman's remark that "if ballots don't work, bullets will",

Really, get serious for gawd's sake--the rhetoric about rebellion, guns and killing has been by FAR from the RIGHT, so ask that of yourselves, not of others! Imagining violence against those with whom they disagree seems to be a favorite form of rhetoric on the right--it obviously appeals to people like Wulf in their little cocoons of self-righteousness to think they can kill whoever they dislike, so it works, but to extrapolate that it applies to others is exquisitely amusing.


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Sunday, June 10, 2012 5:03 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Or better, do us all a favor and go back to your "heroic" fantasy movies and TV until you grow up.
Er... that's what's keeping WULFIE-boy from growing up in the first place. I recommend some serious reading.

Maybe CRACKED?

Also, what Kwicko said
Quote:

In a word, Yes. I believe they would indeed do just that, if ordered.

They went door to door during Katrina, confiscating weapons.

They have opened fire on their own pensioners in DC.

They have opened fire on unarmed students at universities.

They have invaded countless nations and killed countless numbers of innocent civilians, all because they were "asked to".

So if they were ordered to fire on you and your tea-bagging friends, I am reasonably sure they would do so. If they were ordered to fire on the Occupy protesters, I am reasonably sure they would do so as well.

The big difference between and me, though, is that I find all of these upsetting and appalling, while you actually seem to cheer the prospect of that last scenario playing out that way.


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Sunday, June 10, 2012 10:13 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Or better, do us all a favor and go back to your "heroic" fantasy movies and TV until you grow up.
Er... that's what's keeping WULFIE-boy from growing up in the first place. I recommend some serious reading.

Maybe CRACKED?

Also, what Kwicko said
Quote:

In a word, Yes. I believe they would indeed do just that, if ordered.

They went door to door during Katrina, confiscating weapons.

They have opened fire on their own pensioners in DC.

They have opened fire on unarmed students at universities.

They have invaded countless nations and killed countless numbers of innocent civilians, all because they were "asked to".

So if they were ordered to fire on you and your tea-bagging friends, I am reasonably sure they would do so. If they were ordered to fire on the Occupy protesters, I am reasonably sure they would do so as well.

The big difference between and me, though, is that I find all of these upsetting and appalling, while you actually seem to cheer the prospect of that last scenario playing out that way.





Would they really do that?????

All of those horrible things??????

Just for a paycheck?????



Without any evidence I could show you, I believe 95 percent of kids that join the Armed Forces today do so because they have nothing else....

I can only say so because I nearly joined the "Guard" thinking that I would just defend our boarders internally until I found out I'd be one of the first to be shipped out to the Middle East....

The "Guard" today, is one of the only reasons your 16 year old boys and girls aren't being drafted.....

Let's see how long that lasts when people my age get smart......?



I feel sorry for 99% of the lot of you....

Eventually, they'll find a way of legitimately tying my feet and wrists and removing me completely from FFF.NET



To anyone who understands the meaning and wants to make a difference....

RUN

RUN and only come back with a different name and the ability to change things for everyone and the few who held out.

They've already severly crippled my brother, the only thing in the world I care about more than myself.... unless you're him, I'd sacrafice you in a second for a promise to make him better

Don't follow my ultimate path, but take heed of my doctrines....

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Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Would they really do that?????
All of those horrible things??????
Just for a paycheck?????

Of course not. They join for a paycheck, and THEN get indoctrinated. I've seen it happen with people I know. There is the comradery, the unwillingness to let your fellow soldiers down, the separation into "us" versus "them" and the thrill of having the authority to shoot at people. And then, in a wartime situation, the fight for survival.

The Milgram experiment showed that you can get enough people to torture just on an "authority's" say-so. It's all very easy. It's happened with police, with the guard, the military and with military contractors. If you think it hasn't, then you are very naive.
Quote:

Eventually, they'll find a way of legitimately tying my feet and wrists and removing me completely from FFF.NET
Aren't you being a bit paranoid? I hate to tell you this, but you're not important enough to be removed from anywhere, much less a backwater site like this. If you think I'm insulting you, let me add that nobody else here is important enough either.

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Sunday, June 10, 2012 11:58 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:


The Milgram experiment showed that you can get enough people to torture just on an "authority's" say-so. It's all very easy.

I don't get it, in my gut, I mean. My respect is earned- authority, my elders, family, whatever. This automatic, child-like obedience is just so wrong on so many levels... the only peeps that get my automatic respect are firefighters and combat vets.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Sunday, June 10, 2012 12:28 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


People just work differently than you do, Chris. MY first response is deference to authority. Somebody in a white coat says "Take this pill", I take the pill. That's just me. Knowing that, I have to be extra-careful about what I'm willing to do.

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Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:11 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
People just work differently than you do, Chris. MY first response is deference to authority. Somebody in a white coat says "Take this pill", I take the pill.

I was like that with medical peeps 'till I turned fifty. Was NEVER like that with government types.
I gotta talk to someone for 30 seconds to determine if they are either more intelligent or more knowledgeable than I am before I seriously listen to a word they say.
Since you are both, you've had my respect from the first few posts of yours I read way back.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
"My 'guess', and that's all this is,



HA! He's not even sure why he starts his own threads, and must "guess" at his own reasons.

I can't stop laughing at this fool.




ETA - Wulf seems to have quoted ME, with out identifying my original post, which was a reply to Mincingbeasts question of why this thread was even started in the first place.

Wulf - clearly indicate who said what when you're using other's quotes, if you would. It will help cut down on confusion in the future. Thanks.




" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, June 11, 2012 10:52 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Rap,

Roger that. Sorry for the confusion.

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Monday, June 11, 2012 11:55 AM

BYTEMITE


I've never really bought the Milgram experiments, just like I never really bought into the stanford prisoner guard experiment. I think there's other factors involved that they didn't really measure. And they didn't pick up examples that would have skewed the results back towards representative because those examples selected themselves out of the experiments.

However, there are some things that can lead to this kind of viewpoint adoption and reasoning, and all of them would be factors in Milgram experiment outcome.

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Monday, June 11, 2012 12:05 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The "Guard" today, is one of the only reasons your 16 year old boys and girls aren't being drafted.....
...if there still WERE a draft, that is...

Hate to tell you, Byte, but I was living in Palo Alto at the time of the Stanford experiment and knew some of those involved. My suggestion is that you believe it. Just a suggestion.

The whole point of the military is to break the person DOWN, then build him back UP into their mentality. It works far too well, from what I have observed over time, and is based on some pretty accurate psychological realities. Bearing in mind the ignorance (NOT stupidity) of many who inlist, it's not all that difficult. Some defy the brainwashing, always, but the majority...well, it's just my opinion...

The "doctor-as-god" mentality is somewhat different; we're trained from Day One to trust doctors, even tho' it is even less relevant to do so than in times past...




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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


This place is Hardly "backwater".....

If there is a "red flag" raised on you for borrowing specific books from your local library, there is three times the flags raised for posting in the RWED. I'd just imagine that the flags keep popping up.

At the end of the day, I know I'm not important so I don't get f'd with....

But you're a fool if you don't think that somebody doesn't have the cushy and entertaining job of reading our posts here.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Would they really do that?????
All of those horrible things??????
Just for a paycheck?????

Of course not. They join for a paycheck, and THEN get indoctrinated. I've seen it happen with people I know. There is the comradery, the unwillingness to let your fellow soldiers down, the separation into "us" versus "them" and the thrill of having the authority to shoot at people. And then, in a wartime situation, the fight for survival.

The Milgram experiment showed that you can get enough people to torture just on an "authority's" say-so. It's all very easy. It's happened with police, with the guard, the military and with military contractors. If you think it hasn't, then you are very naive.
Quote:

Eventually, they'll find a way of legitimately tying my feet and wrists and removing me completely from FFF.NET
Aren't you being a bit paranoid? I hate to tell you this, but you're not important enough to be removed from anywhere, much less a backwater site like this. If you think I'm insulting you, let me add that nobody else here is important enough either.



I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....

There are over 10 million idiots working Government jobs who I could run circles around.



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Thursday, June 14, 2012 2:15 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....




I think I'd have to say that either (a) you really didn't know what you were doing, or wouldn't have been fired, or (b) this is further evidence of the inefficacy of six sigma. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were good at your job and an asset to the department.

So where's that leave six sigma?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 3:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

In my experience, many people who get fired lose their jobs for reasons unrelated to productivity or to 'six sigma' style efficiency protocols.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 15, 2012 2:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Thanks for the step back Kwicko....

I guess I'll explain it all from my viewpoint then....

Six Sigma is severely flawed, simply because it completely eliminates "humanity" from the equation. I'm NOT exaggerating about that fact at all. I've taken enough courses while I was working there to be a "Six Sigma Black Belt" if I wanted to be.

My contributions to my job and my abilities were never in question. I was a "rebel" though. I didn't just say "yes massa" when things were taken away from us or when I felt that people were being treated unfairly. I was VERY loud about issues with middle management, HR and the "Operative" that was here to cut the fat and make the company lean.

My bad.... but I guess I felt that since I had a shit ton of acorns stored away and I wasn't married, I regularly stood up for my "work family" when things went awry.

I really feel bad for those who still have to work there. I keep in contact with many of them and they all hate their job now, but they could never quit it because they'd never find another job making anywhere near the same money and benefits.



In the end I was laid off for two reasons. I did not fit the "Operative's" definition of a "team-player", and I was making too much money. I'm sure they found two 24 year old college graduates who were happy to bend over and split my salary.





This should not be happening in the private sector. It's purely evil in my mind.

I think it should be happening to the Government though, since they've shown year after year that they can never run budget surpluses for the long haul and there is so much obvious wasted dollars in the public sector.

They're all paid by us.... "We the People". Yet, we don't get to vet the workers, we don't get to fire the workers, and they get better pay and benefits than anybody in the private sector doing the same job would be paid.

In my mind, Six Sigma was not only invented as a tool for government oversight, but it's PERFECT for it!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

I knew what I was doing at my job, and I got Six-Sigma'd....




I think I'd have to say that either (a) you really didn't know what you were doing, or wouldn't have been fired, or (b) this is further evidence of the inefficacy of six sigma. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were good at your job and an asset to the department.

So where's that leave six sigma?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy




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Friday, June 15, 2012 2:44 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

The "Guard" today, is one of the only reasons your 16 year old boys and girls aren't being drafted.....
...if there still WERE a draft, that is...

Hate to tell you, Byte, but I was living in Palo Alto at the time of the Stanford experiment and knew some of those involved. My suggestion is that you believe it. Just a suggestion.

The whole point of the military is to break the person DOWN, then build him back UP into their mentality. It works far too well, from what I have observed over time, and is based on some pretty accurate psychological realities. Bearing in mind the ignorance (NOT stupidity) of many who inlist, it's not all that difficult. Some defy the brainwashing, always, but the majority...well, it's just my opinion...

The "doctor-as-god" mentality is somewhat different; we're trained from Day One to trust doctors, even tho' it is even less relevant to do so than in times past...




What does six sigma'd mean? Just curious.

The whole point of military training is that you are trained to do what would generally be counter intuitive to do ie to engage a hostile enemy rather than run for the hills. Your training means that you need to follow orders without thinking, because if you think or argue in the moment, you jepardise operations which rely on you putting your life at risk. The other main point of training is that you can think clearly when under periods of high stress, rather than again, responding with fleeing or losing the plot which is what untraining personnel would do.

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Friday, June 15, 2012 3:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


That's a wonderful question MG....

I'm actually surprised it took so long for somebody to ask about it.

I actually had no idea what it was before I was taking online courses at my old job on it, and climbed very far up the laddar (or, more accurately, down the rabbit hole) out of morbid curiosity rather than ever wanting to be an agent to the idea.

As a funny side-note, if you watch 30 Rock, Alec Baldwin's "Jack" character, who is a mindless sycophant of "GE" mentions Six Sigma many times on the show. GE created Six Sigma in "real life".



If you want to really read a "basic tutorial" of Six Sigma, here's the wikipedia article for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_sigma

If you want to know the "main jist" of it without reading all of that.... well... It's basically people coming into your company and, through social engineering and personal interviews, they evaluate every aspect of the company while throwing humans into the equation while treating them as nothing more than "cogs in the machine" and they then "cut the fat" and eliminate jobs and job titles that they feel are either useless or redundant. All the while, they're trained to NEVER say negative words like "downsourcing" or "lay-offs". While they're there, and while they're heading meetings at these companies, even after friends and family memebers have been let go, they're supposed to garner an atmosphere of caring and love for the company.

After these tactics... Those who are most afraid of being laid off themselves and haven't had any family or close friends laid off are even more incentivized to work as hard as they possibly can. In the end, their ability to show TRULY how much work that only one person can perform when two people were sharing that work load, allows them to further lay off people and run an even tighter "slave ship".




To keep it all not so grim.....

If you're a fan of office space, you've seen it happen even if you never worked a shirt and tie job...



Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

The "Guard" today, is one of the only reasons your 16 year old boys and girls aren't being drafted.....
...if there still WERE a draft, that is...

Hate to tell you, Byte, but I was living in Palo Alto at the time of the Stanford experiment and knew some of those involved. My suggestion is that you believe it. Just a suggestion.

The whole point of the military is to break the person DOWN, then build him back UP into their mentality. It works far too well, from what I have observed over time, and is based on some pretty accurate psychological realities. Bearing in mind the ignorance (NOT stupidity) of many who inlist, it's not all that difficult. Some defy the brainwashing, always, but the majority...well, it's just my opinion...

The "doctor-as-god" mentality is somewhat different; we're trained from Day One to trust doctors, even tho' it is even less relevant to do so than in times past...




What does six sigma'd mean? Just curious.

The whole point of military training is that you are trained to do what would generally be counter intuitive to do ie to engage a hostile enemy rather than run for the hills. Your training means that you need to follow orders without thinking, because if you think or argue in the moment, you jepardise operations which rely on you putting your life at risk. The other main point of training is that you can think clearly when under periods of high stress, rather than again, responding with fleeing or losing the plot which is what untraining personnel would do.




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