REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Blackwater/Game of Thrones

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Monday, June 4, 2012 18:44
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VIEWED: 750
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Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:16 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

On a recent episode of Game of Thrones, Blackwater was set on fire and thousands of mercenary soldiers were burned to death.

It's probably just a coincidence, but I couldn't help but wonder if the author was trying to deliver a subtle message through his fiction.

--Anthony


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Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:36 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Since the books started publication in 1996, and Blackwater, the private security company, was founded in 1997, probably not.

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:38 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Since the books started publication in 1996, and Blackwater, the private security company, was founded in 1997, probably not.



Hello,

Well, the story where this happens was published in 1998. ;-)

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:51 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

As an aside, however- absolutely amazing episode. I'm glad HBO gave them the extra funding they needed to film a decent battle scene for a change. I was impressed and gratified.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I love the show, but my new TV was having some issues when I watched that episode. It's experiencing some rather extreme "soap opera" effect, where everything looks a little TOO smooth, sharp, and in focus, which really gives the scenes on board the ships a very fakey, sound-stage look to them, and really pulled me right out of the story.

I searched around the AVS forums for some better tunes, but nobody there had any for this model, so they elected me the guinea pig to figure out a tune to fix this, because it's one of the primary gripes about this particular model.

I noticed it even more in the latest episode of Mad Men, in every scene shot in their offices, with the brightly-lit white walls behind them. My wife and I feared it would ruin both shows for us, but I fiddled around and found a tune we're happy with, so we rewatched both shows, and WOW!

Game of Thrones is rapidly becoming my favorite show. I haven't read the books, but they're in my queue. GoT is one of those shows that would actually probably be *better* if they ditched some of the gratuitous sex, but even with it, it's still an amazing show



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I have read that many people are concerned about the upcoming Hobbit film because it is being filmed at a higher framerate which may duplicate the 'too sharp, too much detail' quality of some modern televisions.

However, I have also read that the CGI seems to blend with reality better.

I don't have the new style television so I am left to wonder what everyone is talking about.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:56 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


I'm just sorry they can't shoot more eps for each book. I saw the first season and then read the first book. It was was good but I'm afraid the superbly cast and filmed and scored show spoiled me and I put aside the second book after 100 pages.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:02 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I have to agree that the show has really good writing, direction, and acting. I intend to read the books when all is done, but I don't think this will end up being the type of show that ruins the tale it tries to tell.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



It was a good episode, though I did have a couple of minor issues with it.

I couldn't help but think of Gimli, and the side door to Helms Deep, when Tyrion lead the men into battle. Hope the little guy's alright. ( I hadn't read the books, obviously )



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:50 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I have read all the books, and I can tell you, I could start a hate campaign against GRRM.



Select to view spoiler:


Just don't get attached to anyone!! What a bastard.


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Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:01 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think the battle, as filmed, was an intentional deconstruction of the battle at Helm's Deep, with one Dwarf replacing another, one axe replacing another, one Archer replacing another, most of the honor swapped for pragmatic survival, the horrors of war accentuated, and two terrible kings vying for the fortress.

Magons, I haven't read the books yet, but it became clear to me in Season 1, and it has been echoed in Season 2 by Arya. "Anyone can be killed." I worry for my favorites.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I have read all the books, and I can tell you, I could start a hate campaign against GRRM.



Select to view spoiler:


Just don't get attached to anyone!! What a bastard.




We're fans of Joss. We should be use to THAT by now.





" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:59 PM

HKCAVALIER


One nice thing about when GRRM decides to take someone out, it's never one of these "whoopsie, random act of god, shit happens" kind o' deals. People generally die because someone wants to kill them and succeeds. It may be surprising in the moment, but in retrospect, as with the big death in book one, it should become painfully obvious that this is where the story was headed all along. Martin's kind of a master at that game.

I'm kinda mixed on the show at this point, just because I think 1 hour chunks are too small most of the time to get anything going. I can see how watching the whole series at will on DVD would solve that problem, however.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 3:47 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I'm kinda mixed on the show at this point, just because I think 1 hour chunks are too small most of the time to get anything going. I can see how watching the whole series at will on DVD would solve that problem, however.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.



Hello,

I felt, contrarily, that there were several episodes where there was little forward movement of the plot (though usually some excellent character conversations or development make up for it.) The expedition by the Night's Watch north of The Wall had the feeling of being stretched out too much, and the activities in the desert across the narrow sea felt to be moving rather slowly as well.

I explain this not by the fact that they have insufficient time in a ten hour span to tell their tale, but rather insufficient money. The episode 'Blackwater' goes a long way towards explaining why some episodes felt like 'bottle' episodes for certain characters. It seems to me they were saving their money for the penultimate episode of the season.

I would bet that you could actually make the season peppier by doing it in 9 episodes rather than 10, (did we need a whole episode of inaction by the Targaryan princess after her weapon was stolen? Did we need a whole episode of her and her entourage roaming the desert?) but I so enjoy the performances in this show that I would not compress it even to salvage some pacing issues and save some money.

Perhaps part of the problem is that their source material is produced at a snail's pace by the author, and they do not wish to outpace his production of new novels.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 1, 2012 7:05 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Perhaps part of the problem is that their source material is produced at a snail's pace by the author, and they do not wish to outpace his production of new novels.

Hey Anthony,

This is a very popular and popularized misconception. The first three books were written in quite timely fashion. The 5 year waits started with the last two and that was because he'd hit a major continuity problem that simply could not be solved. He ended up splitting the last two books geographically, with 4 concerning Kingslanding and its environs and 5 concerning the other continent and the wall (for the most part) with mixed results. I suspect the 6th book will be finished in a couple years at the most.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, June 1, 2012 9:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA



I've long since given up on it.
I mislike it for the same reason I hated Harry Potter.
Quote:

"Does this ever get beyond watching people suffer for no good reason ?"

Sorry, but I find that no more entertaining than I would a slasher flick with a laugh track, folks.
Past a certain point it's just plain literary sadism, and I have no taste for it.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarknessInducedAudienceApat
hy


So I've already called it, Others invade, wipe em all out, good riddance and best thing for em, really.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocksFallEveryoneDies
(And I suspect Martin might wind up doin this, not that I care any more)

Oh, and the specific thing you're talkin about with the Visual Effects is in fact covered by another one of these.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DigitalDestruction

-Frem

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Friday, June 1, 2012 10:30 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think every epic tale, even real-life triumphs, have moments of despair. Periods of time, sometimes great lengths of time, where suffering seems to be diverse and endless, and no light seems to shine on the characters.

It is tempting at that moment to surrender and give up on the whole affair.

But either you are the type of person who believes that things will get better, or you're not.

Everyone has their own personal threshold of optimism.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 1, 2012 4:39 PM

HKCAVALIER


Hey Frem,

There is one major character for whom things get extraodinarily better in the latest book, kinda the culmination of this character's story arc--so looking forward to what this character is going to do with their new found and extraordinary power. And crazy Danny did a whole lot of good for a ton of people for a while as well. And most spectacularly, one of the most hated characters in the story is kinda magnificently redeamed. GRRM's finest work, that last.

Just sayin'.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, June 1, 2012 4:56 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

one of the most hated characters in the story is kinda magnificently redeamed.


Hello,

I remember I loved Babylon 5 for its ability to do this. It set you up to like one guy and hate another. Then it made you hate the one guy and like the other. Then it made you like them both.

I think Game of Thrones has this quality of allowing you to find compassion and affection for even sinister characters. There are only a very few who are utterly without merit, even if they happen to be doing the wrong things. And you never know where someone will ultimately end.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 1, 2012 5:17 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

I've long since given up on it.
I mislike it for the same reason I hated Harry Potter.
Quote:

"Does this ever get beyond watching people suffer for no good reason ?"

Sorry, but I find that no more entertaining than I would a slasher flick with a laugh track, folks.
Past a certain point it's just plain literary sadism, and I have no taste for it.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarknessInducedAudienceApat
hy


So I've already called it, Others invade, wipe em all out, good riddance and best thing for em, really.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocksFallEveryoneDies
(And I suspect Martin might wind up doin this, not that I care any more)

Oh, and the specific thing you're talkin about with the Visual Effects is in fact covered by another one of these.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DigitalDestruction

-Frem



I think these are interesting, and it feels as if GRRM does cross this line from time to time, and yet.... and yet, I keep reading. But I do so with a steely heart.

The only other time I have experienced this kind of sensation, was I Claudius. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074006/ I don't know if any of you ever saw this fantastic british drama from the 70's or read the book on which it was based by Robert Graves. All about the reigns of the Roman caesars from Augustus until Claudius. You see the brightest and the best potential rulers systematically mudered off until you are left with the most cunning, ruthless and/or mad with the seat of power. Claudius only survives his murderous family because he plays the simpleton and hides his abilities.

A must see, despite the now outdates effects and dodgy sets. The acting and writing is the best.



John Hurt's truly nutty Caligula

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Friday, June 1, 2012 5:40 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Magons, I, Claudius was just very recently (the last month or two) released on Blu-Ray for the first time. I've been meaning to see it; it comes highly recommended by several critics I respect.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 2, 2012 4:14 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, remember how I can be about moving goalposts - there's only so long imma play along and wait for the payoff, and of course the longer you string the audience along the bigger that payoff better be.

This is what caused The X-Files to wind up a huge, steaming pile of go-se, and I highly suspect Martin is travelling down the same road, a perception massively reinforced by the release of a thousand page doorstopper which I could strip 800 pages from and not have an IOTA of effect on its plot advancement, it's freakin FILLER, damn near all of it.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChrisCarterEffect

With Babylon 5 - the characters, most of em, had REASONS for things they did, not always good or obvious ones, but they did have their reasons...
The only character development I see anywhere close to this is Jaime Lannister, who is lauded for his most heinous acts, and despised for his most altruistic - as one can imagine I grok that feeling all too damn well, but for a lot of them they do downright nonsensical things, of course some of them are insane, sure.

There's also the irritation of seeing a force with political, military, and moral superiority suddenly crushed by a deus-ex-machina, repeatedly, cause heaven forfend the forces of darkness don't win every fight that really matters - oh, and lets let the OBVIOUS TRAITOR in close and sit on our thumbs as they destroy our faction from within...
*facepalm*
The contrived stupidity really, really grates - thankfully Danny is mostly immune to the deus-ex-machina, and her former husband did NOT sit on his thumb and wait for the knife, but that just makes it all feel even more unrealistic cause it highlights the unreality of it all.

Plus there's the related trope to Darkness-Apathy, provoked in part due to abject, inexcusable, out-of-character stupidity and plain inexplicable malice, which leads to what writers call the eight deadly words.
Quote:

"I don't care what happens to these people."

Which isn't EXACTLY true, but close enough - since I am ROOTING FOR THE OTHERS.
That's about as solid a condemnation of a work as I can offer, is it not ?

Mind you, I felt much the same about an anime called "Now and then, here and there".
From the very first episode I was HOPING for the horrible screaming death of the protagonist/viewpoint character, right up to the very end where my hatred and outrage reached a point where I found him in fact even *MORE* despicable than the complete monster who was the primary villain of the tale.

I don't read books or watch stuff for the voyeuristic "pleasure"(sarcasm) of watching people suffer needlessly, I can get that right here, right now - I want tales of hope, or triumph, or at least a bitter satisfaction if naught else.

Show me any hope for Westeros - any possible outcome where I would not prefer it nuked.
Cause I sure hell do not see one.
And even if there was I would firmly expect the inevitable deus-ex-machina out of nowhere crushing it at the last minute, which Martin seems terminally fond of.

-Frem

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Sunday, June 3, 2012 6:57 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


We haven't rented GOT mainly because of the gratuitous sex, we find that tiresome and think we would be fastforwarding past it a lot of the time to get to the story. But what annoys me is: Remember when a show went for the length of the school year, or at least many many months in a row and that was a season? Back then we wouldn't have dreamed of a show that calls 10 episodes a season. WHAT HAPPENED? Now adays Firefly would have been a whole season and then some, I find that a bit pathetic. But no one else seems to have a problem with it. But still more vexing is that the lamo shows that I don't enjoy still have normal seasons, but the cool shows are only on for a couple of months a year and no one seems to mind except for me.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Monday, June 4, 2012 6:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Network TV (ABC, NBC, CBS, CW, Fox) still does a "season" that's typically 22 episodes. Most cable networks (USA, A&E, Bravo, AMC, FX, etc.) do a 10-, 12-, or 13-episode "season", and premium cable (HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc.) usually does a 10-episode season. And sometimes the network will take a 12-ep season and break it into two "half seasons".

Used to be, there were only the big three networks to speak of (ABC, CBS, NBC), so seasons were the same on all of them. But things are different now, and networks have to look for their niches wherever they can find them.

I have very few shows left on the major networks that I watch anymore. I don't think I watch anything on Fox anymore, and just a few on NBC and ABC, and nothing on CBS. Most of the best TV that's on now isn't on the major networks at all - it's on cable or premium, because they're willing to take a chance to get viewers, and networks really can't seem to do that.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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