REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Eric Holder Integrates Church and State

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Saturday, June 2, 2012 08:48
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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 8:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Recklessly phonying up a crisis, which absolutely does NOT exist, for the sole purpose of mobilizing one party's political base, and then using the power of the federal govt to illegally fix an election.

Quote:



In yet another example of Eric Holder gone wild, the top law enforcement officer in the nation will join members of the Congressional Black Caucus, IRS officials, ACLU attorneys and clergy from the Council of National Black Churches "to discuss ideas to combat the wave of new voter ID laws existing around the country."
Can anyone imagine a Republican Attorney General of the United States counseling white churches on voting rights?
CBC Chairman Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO) said the May 30 summit will advise hundreds of pastors from nine different denominations on the best way to educate their parishioners on the new rules.
We will have attorneys there who are well-equipped to provide the guidance to the clergy members.
They will understand, before they leave, about some of the new laws in certain states designed - as we interpret them - to reduce the turnout. The day is over when they could just stand in the pulpit and say 'Go vote. It's your duty.' They've got to now be equipped with some sophisticated information to help inspire a turnout and protect parishioners from some of the schemes that are out there.
The attack on voting rights is not only coordinated, it is dangerous and it is the worst we've seen since Jim Crow.
Given the immense challenge before us, the CBC has decided to take this matter into our own hands and this time we are working with the Black Church, which has diligently served our community for over 200 years fighting for freedom, justice, and equality when African Americans had nowhere else to turn".
AG Holder will be the keynote speaker at the all-day conference on Wednesday. Here are some of the topics on the schedule:
The Problem: State of Voting Rights in the USA
Nicole Austin-Hillery, Director and Counsel, Brennan Center for Justice NYU School of Law
Marcia Johnson-Blanco, Co-Director, Voting Rights Project, Lawyers Committee
Deborah J. Vagins, Senior Legislative Counsel, ACLU
Protecting Your Tax Exempt Status: Conversation with IRS

2:00 PM
"Protecting Your Tax Exempt Status" Conversation with IRS Q&A
IRS Commissioner Douglas H. Shulman
IRS Religious Activities

Voting Rights Call to Action
Moderator: The Honorable Marcia Fudge, 11th District Ohio
Cindy Smalls, Voter Protection Manager, AFL-CIO
Jamie Harrison, Principal, Podesta Group
Adwoa Ansah, President and CEO, Faith Link
Rev Tony Lee, Pastor, Community of Hope
Jeff Johnson, Political Analyst, MSNBC
IRS Northeast Area Manager, Peter Lorenzetti

During a House subcommittee hearing last spring Rep. John Culberson of Texas accused Holder of refusing to prosecute members of the Black Panther Party. The AG took offense insisting "his Department of Justice does not enforce the law in a race-conscious way."
Is helping black pastors to get the vote out -- all on the taxpayer's dime I might add -- not being "race conscious?" And how about that pesky separation of church and state violation?


http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/05/eric_holder_integrates_chu
rch_and_state_in_anti-voter_id_pushback.html#ixzz1wNVWfj7s






There is NO constitutional right for the citizens to vote for the President of the United States. It's true, there is NONE.

Yet this is the exact sort of crap that this administration is pulling, in an election year stunt these degenerate radicals are trying to pull, to ensure the outcome they want.

If they're willing to misuse the office of AG, they're willing to do just about anything.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:39 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:There is NO constitutional right for the citizens to vote for the President of the United States. It's true, there is NONE.


Not directly, but...

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress" ~ Article 2 Section 1

Plus...

"The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." ~ 15th Admendment

Since every state has choosen to assign their electors by popular vote people do indeed have the right to vote for president. Not to mention that there will be more than the presidental race on the ballet.



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Point is, NO ONE'S 'right to vote' is being threatened here. It can't be shown. This is pure demagoguery , on behalf of Holder and the Justice Dept, in siding w/ the far Left wing in attacking these safe guards. This is exactly the same sort of tone which was used when Bush and the GOP tried to reign in Fannie and Freddie, years before the housing melt down. The Left is screaming 'racism ', where there is none.

Quote:

Since every state has choosen to assign their electors by popular vote people do indeed have the right to vote for president. Not to mention that there will be more than the presidental race on the ballet.



That the states have CHOSEN to choose electoral delegates by that method doesn't make it a 'right', granted by the US constitution. One state could decide to allow left handed hair stylists to determine the delegates. Another state could go by the phone book, and choose voters at random. But the greater point here is, no one's right to vote for state or US representatives is being infringed upon here. It simply isn't.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:01 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Your rights the states could change their laws, but until they do people do have a right to vote for president. Plus as I stated by the 15th Admendment people have a right to vote for their state senators and representative. That right is such that the states can't infringe on. People have a right to vote in this country. It sounds like the Jutice Department is ensure people can exercise that right.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson: It sounds like the Jutice Department is ensure people can exercise that right.


People CAN exercise that right. There's no reason for the Justice Dept to politically target one group, as is being done, when no threat to their voting rights exists.

the top law enforcement officer in the nation will join members of the Congressional Black Caucus, IRS officials, ACLU attorneys and clergy from the Council of National Black Churches "to discuss ideas to combat the wave of new voter ID laws existing around the country."

Why such a narrow, clearly defined group? This from the very same AG who refused to press charges against the NBPP ( new black panther party ) after it was shown they used threatening and menacing tactics at a polling place, during the '08 election. And now this ?


Quote:

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, the nation's top law enforcement officer, told a gathering of black church leaders on Wednesday in Washington, D.C., that laws requiring citizens to show a photo I.D. before voting were a threat to voting rights.

He said such laws place "an unfair burden on non-white voters."




Really? An 'unfair burden' ? To follow what everyone else has had to do , for the last how many years ? I've had to show my ID nearly every time since I can recall, starting w/ my first time to vote , in 1984. There MAYBE have been 1 or two exceptions.

So why should "non-whites " get a free pass, when I don't ?




" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:31 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Non-whites are not looking for a free pass. The fact is that ID requirements and other such laws disproportionately affect blacks and other minorities.

Until I moved to Florida I never once had to show my ID to vote in New York State.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Non-whites are not looking for a free pass. The fact is that ID requirements and other such laws disproportionately affect blacks and other minorities.

Until I moved to Florida I never once had to show my ID to vote in New York State.



No they don't. Blacks and other minorities have the same access, the same ability to get IDs as anyone. And most state IDs can be issued, free of charge. Claiming 'non whites' are at some imaginary disadvantage is a trumped up fallacy.

This is an overt attack by the AG , to politicize this election year, as much as possible. It's beyond disgusting.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:57 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
No they don't. Blacks and other minorities have the same access, the same ability to get IDs as anyone. And most state IDs can be issued, free of charge. Claiming 'non whites' are at some imaginary disadvantage is a trumped up fallacy.

This is an overt attack by the AG , to politicize this election year, as much as possible. It's beyond disgusting.



Only some states will issue free state ID's. Blacks and minorities are much more likley to be poor and as such more likely not have the means to pay for a state ID or the supporting paperwork to get a free one.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:57 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


It's an overt effort by the GOP to politicize voting rights this year.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 11:24 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
It's an overt effort by the GOP to politicize voting rights this year.



Yes. By making the rules for everyone wanting to vote equal. How scandalous !


And note the timing of this meeting of Holder with leaders of Black churches and the COB. It comes shortly AFTER Obama's pseudo stance of affirming gay marriage. A position that most blacks simply don't agree with him, at all. So, surprise ! They invent this need to suddenly rev up the attacks on voter ID laws, on the day after Romney wins the GOP delegate count.

Rule # 39: There is no such thing as coincidence.


" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 12:56 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Not requiring ID's would also make the requirements equal.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 1:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Not requiring ID's would also make the requirements equal.




Yes. It would. For illegals and dead voters, everywhere.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 1:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Rule # 39: There is no such thing as coincidence.





Right. Which is why these particular rules seem to be cropping up in battleground states and states with newly Republican majorities and supermajorities.

I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Oh, wait - you said there's no such thing.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 1:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Still not seeing the whole "integration of church and state" part of this story.


Is Rappy saying that government should never, under any circumstances, listen to religious leaders when it comes to matters of government?

If so, I'd say I'm in complete agreement.

Sadly, I'm pretty sure that's NOT what he's saying, though. I can't recall him raising much of a stink when the GOP called religious leaders - all male, of course - before the House to debate contraception.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 1:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Still not seeing the whole "integration of church and state" part of this story.



Of course not. You're blind to reality.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 2:46 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And you've been utterly unable to make your case.


Guess there's nothing to this story after all.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 5:00 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Church and State have been officially integrated by the jewish "Federal" Reserve Bank (that counterfeits all "money"
out of thin air) and its IRS collection agency (that gives all income tax to the "Fed" bank as interest on the
neverending debt) for 99 years, to overthrow USA and its Christian religions for the Jew World Odor.
https://www.google.com/search?q=501c3+church+state+religion

The Goyim love that suicide pact, apparently.

And Eric Holder should be hung by the neck until his head pops off at Gitmo.

If it's good enuff for Saddam Hussein, it's good enuff of Hussein Obama.


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Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:27 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Again, I'm so glad I live in a vote by mail state, huzzah for vote by mail! You guys are really missing out.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And you've been utterly unable to make your case.


Guess there's nothing to this story after all.





There's everything to this story, and it's all that you're conveniently ignoring, out of pure , juvenile spite. The AG shouldn't be politicizing ANYTHING, and yet he's speaking to exclusively Left wing groups, BLACK church leaders....he's not even hiding his bias, or pretending to be neutral on the issue. Holder is , once again, politicking, from the office of AG that should be looking out for everyone, not catering to his party's platform.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And you've been utterly unable to make your case.


Guess there's nothing to this story after all.





There's everything to this story, and it's all that you're conveniently ignoring, out of pure , juvenile spite. The AG shouldn't be politicizing ANYTHING, and yet he's speaking to exclusively Left wing groups, BLACK church leaders....he's not even hiding his bias, or pretending to be neutral on the issue. Holder is , once again, politicking, from the office of AG that should be looking out for everyone, not catering to his party's platform.





I still find it odd that you voiced no such concerns when the House went out of their way to politicize reproductive rights by speaking with exclusively MALE church leaders, not even hiding their bias against women or pretending to be neutral on the issue. The House Republicans were once again politicking from the House of Representatives when they should be looking out for every American, not catering to their party's platform.

So why didn't you have a problem with it?

Was it just juvenile spite?

Or was it because you agreed with them?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:16 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes. It would. For illegals and dead voters, everywhere.



Illegal imigrants and non-citizens will have a hard time getting their registration approved. The dead, well unless the zombie vote become the new hot thing I don't see a problem.

The voter ID laws are addressing a problem which simply does not exist.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:23 AM

CAVETROLL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Rule # 39: There is no such thing as coincidence.





Right. Which is why these particular rules seem to be cropping up in battleground states and states with newly Republican majorities and supermajorities.





If a state has a Republican majority, then why do they want to require IDs? To keep the leftists, like you, from rigging the election with graveyard voters.

I'd accuse you of intellectual dishonesty, but I don't think you're capable of it. Idiot.

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:19 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
If a state has a Republican majority, then why do they want to require IDs? To keep the leftists, like you, from rigging the election with graveyard voters.



I forgot that the left also has necromancers on their side.

Not many states are so deep red, or blue that they can swing the other way sometimes.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
The voter ID laws are addressing a problem which simply does not exist.




Actually, it does exist, and has been shown to exist, time and time again. Which is the reason why it's being addressed.

How is something so simple and straight forward so hard to figure out ? How is it that the Left are able to fool so many people ?




" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Friday, June 1, 2012 1:40 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, it does exist, and has been shown to exist, time and time again. Which is the reason why it's being addressed.



Really, show me massive cases of voter fraud. Don't bother to mention ACORN because that was registration fraud and was caught because of the verification system.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, June 1, 2012 1:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, it does exist, and has been shown to exist, time and time again. Which is the reason why it's being addressed.



Really, show me massive cases of voter fraud. Don't bother to mention ACORN because that was registration fraud and was caught because of the verification system.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.




It might not be a "massive" case, but Indiana's Secretary of State, a Republican, was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud this year.

Rappy seemed to feel there was nothing to it, though. Imagine that.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, June 1, 2012 6:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, I started reading this but gave up fairly quickly. The bullshit coming from Raptor is obvious bullshit and not worthy of a response, given the efforts at voter suppression, this year in particular, has been massive and most likely WILL affect the election. The fact that it's been proven historically--and that the proof is clearly by those on the right disenfranchising minorities, to the extent that certain states now have to get the APPROVAL of the DOJ to change their voting laws--is sufficient to rebut his absurd arguments.

Florida is the most egregious example; they have done this kind of "purging" in the past and are attempting to do it again. Given Bush "won" by only 537 votes in 2000, they're no doubt trying to disenfranchise a huge number of potential Democratic voters, just to be safe.

It's an idiotic claim that Democrats are making a mountain of a molehill; the only mountains being made out of molehills is the claim that "voter fraud" is "rampant", when facts have proven THAT false, as well. Democrats want all eligible voters to vote; Republicans only want people who will vote for THEM to vote, simple as that.


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Friday, June 1, 2012 6:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, I bothered to go back and read the whole thread. Nothing unexpected there, just the usual lies and bullshit with absolutely no substantiation whatsoever, refuted easily, etc., etc.

As to the "church and state" thing, He and "American Thinker" are playing a game. By reporting "will join clergy from the Council of National Black Churches "to discuss ideas to combat the wave of new voter ID laws existing around the country." and describing it instead as "counseling churches on voting rights" he's trying to connect the two. Predictable spin intended to influence readers not paying attention.

It's obvious that the reason these groups are meeting with him to help their members learn how to deal with the current egregious efforts at voter suppression is BECAUSE all the new Republican-created laws target those groups in particular. I detailed all the facts about this with regard to Florida alone in the thread on same. The simple fact is, these new laws were exclusively written by Republicans--pardon me, by Republicans IN CONJUNCTION WITH ALEC, which wrote most of them--and passed by Republican-majority legislatures.

The consistent claim by Republicans that "massive" voter fraud exists in this country is a lie, and has been proven to be such over and over many times, which doesn't stop them from screaming it as an excuse for their voter-suppression tactics.

The simple fact is that the incidence of actual voter fraud is negligible in America; that's also been proven over and over again. Add to that the fact that a number of the states with new voter-ID laws have a well-documented history of very real voter suppression, particularly of minorities, to the point where they have to get APPROVAL from the DOJ to change their voter laws.

It's a waste of time and effort to refute the lies, if refuted with facts and figures here, Raptor and his ilk will just make the same stupid claims next time. I took the time to prove my point regarding Florida, as well as refuting all the claims here with facts and figures in the past; I'm not about to invest the time and effort to do so again.

Maybe I'll just play Raptor's game, make claims I don't need to substantiate and tell HIM to prove otherwise. Here we go: There is only MINISCULE proven voter fraud in America. The "dead" voting fraud is so little it doesn't even count, as is every other sort of voter fraud. Republicans have screamed "voter fraud!" over and over by including mistakes as "fraud". That voter fraud in America is infintessimal has been proven over and over, so claiming it exists in such numbers as to actually impact an election is a joke. The Republicans are famous for their voter-suppression techniques--which has been proven extensively--and these are just more of the same. The DOJ is absolutely right to make an effort to educate people on how to deal with these new, ILLEGAL tactics. Every American citizen has the right to vote, and attempts to stop them or make it more difficult for them to exercise that right is nothing short of ACTUAL voter fraud. Bush only "won" the 2000 election illegally by having the Supremes in his back pocket, and the difference (when the Supremes made them stop counting) was 537 votes; it's no surprise they want to suppress those who might vote against Romney MASSIVELY to ensure they can steal this election too. The only reason Obama won was because so many millions of people overcame voter-suppression techniques that the Republicans weren't able to game the election. Any Democrats who were actually proven to have committed voter fraud are hugely outnumbered by the voters who Republicans have kept from voting.

PROVE any of that wrong, I dare you.


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Friday, June 1, 2012 9:37 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
It might not be a "massive" case, but Indiana's Secretary of State, a Republican, was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud this year.


Don't forget Thad-pole Mikey, he may not be charged for it, but he most certainly did it.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120530/POLITICS01/205300356/
Quote:

Photocopying on the petitions was so rampant that one sheet with 15 signatures was copied once or in some cases two times with the duplicates mixed into the stack. In those cases, 15 signatures would be turned into 30 or 60. The difference between the copies would be changes to the petition identification number and in some cases a different petition circulator's signature.

The overt copying is "frankly unheard of," said Chris Thomas, Michigan's director of elections, as he thumbed through the stack of petitions Tuesday. "It's amazing when you sit and look, and it starts to dwell on you what they've done."


This is *NOT*, mind you, an uncommon practice around here, the only thing unusual about it at all is that the bastard was finally called on it.

-Frem

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Friday, June 1, 2012 9:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


That one bit him in the ass, didn't it? Didn't he get tossed off the ballot after they threw out so many of his "signatures" as being bogus?

I've only heard a little about it, but found it amusing.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, June 1, 2012 10:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup. Good luck with that write-in campaign, McCotter!

What, nothing from our righties about this blatant fraud? Huh...


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Friday, June 1, 2012 10:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What's interesting about this is that our righties are arguing AGAINST people being able to vote! Given minorities will be the ones hardest hit, I think it's fine someone from the government should be helping them understand the new laws and how they will be impacted by them...laws they might not even hear about until they go to the polls. He is the Attorney General of the United States--shouldn't he be working to protect the rights of EVERY citizen to vote? He's defending the rule of law.

Yet to Raptor, tho' he had to reach pretty damned far for it, it's an attempt to "integrate church and state" (boy, he really DID have to reach for that one!), and the other righties here have been coming up with every reason imaginable why it's no problem, nobody should have any trouble doing what's necessary to be "certified", it's not aimed at Democrats, and on and on. It's not like he's telling them WHO to vote for, just HOW to abide by the new laws which will impact them more than any other group besides other minorities! The question about someone from the government speaking to church leaders about explaining to WHITE folk what the problems are and how to deal with them seems an absurdity in comparison...given I'm not aware of ANY laws that have EVER been passed which would exclude White voters in huge numbers, that doesn't even come into the conversation. But by gawd, it must be bad that someone from the government (a...BLACK...man, gasp!) is trying to do something about it.

Jezus Kriste, what happened to America being so proud that we had open elections and everyone could vote? This whole thing is so blatantly obvious and so patently disgusting, it really feels like we're in some kind of "reverse world" or something...things that are going on these days are so opposite of the MINIMUM of what "should be", it's like a parallel universe. It's never been perfect; I never expected it to be. But the way things are going now...it's incomprehensible.

A presidential candidate is put on trial for POSSIBLY (tho' nobody really thinks so) having accepted campaign funds over the legal limit--at a time when campaign funds have essentially become UNLIMITED and a few ultra-rich anonymous people can buy an election...

A government official is trashed because he's trying to HELP legitimate American citizens utilize their right to vote...

I shudder to even wonder what's next...


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Friday, June 1, 2012 10:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

A government official is trashed because he's trying to HELP legitimate American citizens utilize their right to vote...



Thing is, right-wing idiots like Rappy keepy trying to insist that legitimate American citizens HAVE no right to vote.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, June 1, 2012 10:49 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Meanwhile, I wonder if Rappy will join a movement to remove "in god we trust" from our money, and get the "under god" part stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, since both of those were late add-ons that were never intended to be there in the first place.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, June 1, 2012 11:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nah, those don't affect Republicans getting more and more power; and they're useful in insisting we're a "Christian" nation, so Christians (certain GROUPS of Christians, that is) should always get preferential treatment.

Careful, or they'll claim you're waging a "War on Money"!


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Friday, June 1, 2012 11:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Nah, those don't affect Republicans getting more and more power; and they're useful in insisting we're a "Christian" nation, so Christians (certain GROUPS of Christians, that is) should always get preferential treatment.

Careful, or they'll claim you're waging a "War on Money"!




Well, it's been waging a war on us for long enough!

They only call it "class warfare" when we fight back, anyway. ;)


By the way, for any of those morons who insist that we're a "Christian" nation, I'd challenge them to do a word search on the text of the U.S. Constitution, and see how many times each of these words turns up in the document that lays out our nation's founding and system of government:

- God.
- Creator.
- Bible.
- Jesus.
- Christ.
- Christian.
- Church.

Seems any nation founded as a "Christian nation" would include some mention of it in their founding documents.

'Course, maybe I'm just being too picky. Heck, seems to me if Jesus had a big ol' problem with "the gay", he'd have maybe mentioned that, too.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, June 1, 2012 3:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Meanwhile, I wonder if Rappy will join a movement to remove "in god we trust" from our money, and get the "under god" part stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, since both of those were late add-ons that were never intended to be there in the first place.


Speakin o which...
http://www.annarbor.com/news/state-house-bill-would-require-pledge-of-
allegiance-in-schools-each-day
/

One can imagine I hit the fekkin roof, and have been organizing resistance.

-F

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Saturday, June 2, 2012 3:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, it does exist, and has been shown to exist, time and time again. Which is the reason why it's being addressed.



Really, show me massive cases of voter fraud. Don't bother to mention ACORN because that was registration fraud and was caught because of the verification system.



Gotta love the pre-qualifiers.

Show me! But don't include ACORN,and make sure they're " massive ", other wise I won't acknowledge there's any issue in the first place.

*yawn*

Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Meanwhile, I wonder if Rappy will join a movement to remove "in god we trust" from our money, and get the "under god" part stricken from the Pledge of Allegiance, since both of those were late add-ons that were never intended to be there in the first place.



I have in the past, but those are such minor, trivial issues, and evoke such off the chart emotions in some folks, I've decided to pick my battles on more important issues. I actually stopped saying 'under God' during the pledge a long time ago, when I was still in grade school. ( And yes, in school, up until the 6th or 7th grade, we still said the pledge ) It just seemed to me to be dishonest to utter those words when I didn't mean them, and when there was no such thing as god in the first place.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Saturday, June 2, 2012 3:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

A government official is trashed because he's trying to HELP legitimate American citizens utilize their right to vote...



Thing is, right-wing idiots like Rappy keepy trying to insist that legitimate American citizens HAVE no right to vote.



As dishonest as always, huh Kwickie ?

I never said that, and you know it. Would be nice if you at least put my words in context, and not stop short and leave things out, which completely change the meaning of what was being said.

Takes too much effort for you, I guess, huh?

I never said we don't have the right to vote. Get it right, or don't get it at all.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Saturday, June 2, 2012 3:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


It might not be a "massive" case, but Indiana's Secretary of State, a Republican, was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud this year.

Rappy seemed to feel there was nothing to it, though. Imagine that.



There WAS nothing to it. The issues was his place of residency, not tampering with votes, as you'd like folks to believe.

My, y'all HAVE been busy hijacking this thread while I've been away. LOL!



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Saturday, June 2, 2012 5:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"They only call it "class warfare" when we fight back" -- One of my demonstration signs.

ACORN is totally irrelevant to the discussion, because, as you said, it was REGISTRATION fraud, and resulted in no actual VOTER fraud (prove otherwise). As for "massive", voter-SUPPRESSION techniques havecaused massive numbers of people being unable to vote; there IS no "voter fraud" which even comes close, much less is a real problem, on the left. Unless that can be proven, with facts and figures, it's obvious what the intention of these laws is, and it has nothing to do with voter fraud.

The simple facts are there are many instances of voter suppression which would seriously impact an election, and which WILL. You wanna debate the problem, try debating the issue itself, not whether Holder is trying to do something about it or not. Given governors and legislatures in numerous states are perpetuating voter SUPPRESSION, that's the real issue, nothing else.


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Saturday, June 2, 2012 5:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Try these on for size:

February 2012:
Quote:

a jury found Indiana Secretary of State Charlie White (R) guilty on six felony counts of voter fraud, theft, and perjury. The conviction cost White his job.
White's convictions are very real, and trying to pass them off as "nothing" doesn't change the fact that he was tried and convicted:
Quote:

The chief election official in the very first state in the nation to implement polling place Photo ID restrictions --- under the guise of preventing "voter fraud" --- has been found guilty of three counts of felony voter fraud today.

In an early morning verdict following 12 hours of deliberation, a jury in Hamilton County found Indiana's Republican Secretary of State Charlie White guilty of three counts of voter fraud related to having voted in a precinct where he did not live and where he was illegally registered to vote. The Hoosier State's controversial first-in-the-nation Photo ID restrictions, originally implemented in 2008, did nothing to prevent either White's illegal registration or his unlawful vote for himself as Secretary of State in 2010 when he was elected to office.

Of the seven criminal felony counts White had been charged with in March of 2011, the jury also found him guilty of three other Class D felonies related to perjury and theft.

Even the Tea Partiers have alleged voter fraud against Republican Richard Lugar:
Quote:

An Indiana tea partier filed voter fraud allegations against Lugar last December, claiming his official residency is now in Virginia and that he has committed fraud each time he has voted since selling his Indianapolis home in 1977. Hoosiers for Conservative Senate, a tea party umbrella group backing Mourdock, planned to petition Gov. Mitch Daniels Thursday to act on the complaint. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/elections/wsbt-indiana-tea-partiers
-challenge-lugar-residency-20120215,0,7251000.story
, state, and local officials are gathering information about allegations of voter registration fraud that were first raised Channel 8 Eyewitness News.

An employee of a private voter registration firm alleges that his bosses trashed registration forms filled out by Democratic voters because they only wanted to sign up Republican voters.

Las Vegan Eric Russell worked for a company called Voters Outreach of America, along with 300 other people. He says he witnessed his bosses ripping up registration forms that had been filed by democrats. "They were thrown away in the trash. I grabbed them out," said Eric Russell. One of those forms belonged to Daren Gray, who was shocked to learn that the re-registration form he filled out was never turned in.

The FBI confirms that it is gathering information about the case. Secretary of State Dean Heller issued a statement that his office is also taking a look, trying to figure out what if any laws might have been violated.

Voter Outreach of America is being paid by the National Republican Party. The Republican National Committee acknowledges that it hired Voters Outreach of America to register voters, but in a statement said it had zero tolerance for any kind of fraud.

However, similar problems have been alleged elsewhere. In Washoe County, the registrar says he too has turned over information to the FBI about Republican backed registration efforts.

In Oregon, the same company that was operating here has been criticized for its tactics in signing up voters. There, it used the name America Votes, which is actually the name of a Democratic organization. http://www.8newsnow.com/story/2421595/investigation-into-trashed-voter
-registrations
, Florida: Mark Anthony Jacoby of Young Political Majors (YPM), who also ran JSM LLC with Jenny Breslin, who herself was the subject of a criminal investigation in Ohio for voter registration fraud for turning in registrations with forged signatures, faced charges of serious impropriety in Arizona and Florida for trashing Democratic voter registrations and switching party registrations on an estimated 4,000 students from Democrat to Republican.

Tens of thousands of voter registrations were thrown in the trash, and voters told they were signing petition for cheaper gas but in reality, they were signing a petition to put Ralph Nader on the ballot. http://www.politicususa.com/arizona-chases-birtherism-ignorning-republ
ican-voter-fraud.html
of these are unquestionably voter REGISTRATION fraud, it's nonetheless election fraud if "tens of thousands" of people who registered show up to vote and find they're NOT registered. That's different from fake registrations which will never actually show up to vote.


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Saturday, June 2, 2012 6:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


It might not be a "massive" case, but Indiana's Secretary of State, a Republican, was convicted of six felony counts of voter fraud this year.

Rappy seemed to feel there was nothing to it, though. Imagine that.



There WAS nothing to it. The issues was his place of residency, not tampering with votes, as you'd like folks to believe.




SIX felony convictions doesn't sound like nothing. That's SIX more than Bill Ayers has, and six more than John Edwards has. So I guess you'd have to agree that they're at least six times better people than him.

And it wasn't *Just* about his place of residency, was it? Wasn't he also bilking the government out of a paycheck for being on a city committee he wasn't legally allowed to be on?

But of course, when it comes to fraud, you have no problem with stealing from taxpayers when it's being done by your beloved Republican party...



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 2, 2012 8:19 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Gotta love the pre-qualifiers.

Show me! But don't include ACORN,and make sure they're " massive ", other wise I won't acknowledge there's any issue in the first place.



...all because disenfranchising people and making everyone jump through hoops to vote is not worth it to address a few cases that would not affect an election result. As far as ACORN, as I said it was registration fraud, not voter fraud. There is a difference. The voter ID laws would not have helped against the ACORN case.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, June 2, 2012 8:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Gotta love the pre-qualifiers.

Show me! But don't include ACORN,and make sure they're " massive ", other wise I won't acknowledge there's any issue in the first place.



...all because disenfranchising people and making everyone jump through hoops to vote is not worth it to address a few cases that would not affect an election result. As far as ACORN, as I said it was registration fraud, not voter fraud. There is a difference. The voter ID laws would not have helped against the ACORN case.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.




Just as they did not catch the Indiana Secretary of State when he registered AND voted illegally in his state.

So voter ID laws have proven NOT to work, even in the places where they're supposed to work.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 2, 2012 8:48 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

There is NO constitutional right for the citizens to vote for the President of the United States. It's true, there is NONE.




There is also zero mention of "marriage" or any definition of it. And the phrase "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" dos not appear anywhere in the Constitution.

Just pointing that out so maybe you'll quit whinging about those.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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