REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Do "Zero Tolerance" School Discipline Policies Go Too Far?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, May 28, 2012 10:45
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 846
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As mentioned in the thread about the teacher yelling at her students, schools have become chaotic these days, making it harder and harder for teachers to TEACH. But is this the answer?
Quote:

The teenage girls knew they were being loud when they belted out Michael Jackson's "Man in the Mirror" and the gospel favorite "We Lift Our Hands" during lunch at New Orleans' Sojourner Truth Academy charter school. But they never expected school officials would slap them with out-of-school suspensions just for singing in the cafeteria.

"They said we needed to be 'toned down'," said Breion (cq) Burns, 18, one of eight issued a one-day suspension for the boisterous singing in November 2011. The official reason listed on the suspension slips was "willful disobedience." Two other students received two-day suspensions for allegedly cursing amidst the singing.

Several of the suspended girls were honors students who worried the blot on their record would jeopardize college admissions. They could not understand why administrators had opted for suspension over a more mild punishment, like detention.

In schools across the country, out-of-school suspensions have become the default punishment for not only drugs and fights but also for threats, displays of affection, dress code violations, truancy, tardiness, refusal to follow directions, even four-year-olds' temper tantrums.

Suspension rates have more than doubled over the last three decades across all grade levels. At the same time, racial gaps have widened: Black students are three and a half times as likely to be suspended or expelled as their white peers, according to Department of Education data released earlier this spring. The Office for Civil Rights gathered the data from 72,000 schools in 7,000 districts, which educate approximately 85 percent of the country's students.

That survey found one in five African-American boys received an out-of-school suspension during the 2009-10 academic year, compared to about one in 14 white boys.

National studies have also revealed persistent, although more modest, gaps between white and Hispanic students.

Experts say too few people link the rising, and disparate, discipline rates to lost learning time — a crucial connection given the stubbornness of the achievement gap between black and white students. Some schools even prohibit suspended students from making up missed work.

A 2011 study of school discipline in Texas found students suspended or expelled for "discretionary offenses" — those for which state law does not automatically call for an automatic suspension or expulsion — were twice as likely to repeat a grade as those who had not received the punishment. Much more at http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2115402,00.html

It's that "lost learning time" that bothers me. At a time when education should be a huge priority, making it more difficult for children to learn isn't something I agree with.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:46 AM

CAVETROLL


Zero tolerance = zero brains. No wonder it is popular with school administrators.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:57 AM

STORYMARK


I hate zero tolerence policies - but I also understand why they're in place. It used to be, if a child misbehaved, the parent actually punished them. That rarely happens anymore, and has been replaced with parents who take the "my child would never do that - you must be wrong" stance, or insisting that their child should not be held to the same standard as other children (everyone thinks their kid is exceptional).

So, with common infractions, you end up with an endless parade of parents arguing that their child didn't do whatever they did (no matter the evidence) or that their child should be the one special exception, that shouldn't have consequences.

And from their point of view, I can understand - their kid is exceptional to them, and the behavior may very well be unusual for a given kid.

But when a school has a thousand or more kids, all those discussions begin to weigh down the entire school, and nothing gets down but putting out little fires.

I have stood up for kids who got caught by some zero-tolerence policy through no fault of their own, or through circumstances which I felt should mitigate the punishment. But, I also know that these cases are the minority - usually it is kids doing what they know they should not do - and in those cases, I have no problem with the consequences.


Not everything can be summed up with a bumper-sticker length blurb.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 22, 2012 2:25 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


In the end, there is almost ZERO taught in K-12 that your parents shouldn't be able to teach since it's all dumbed down to the lowest common detonator.

These Girls already know more than most just for doing what they did. I hope they're strong enough to not let it stop them after the suspension.

They were simply bored with an archaic and VASTLY overpaid school system.

Good for them.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:40 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


The punishment seemed a bit extreme, either that or we're missing pieces to the puzzle. For instance did they not stop after being asked? I should think that with a student who doesn't get in trouble often a detention should suffice.

I definitely understand what Story's saying about how parents are weird now adays, instead of teaching their kids to man up and accept just consequences they weedle and try to coherce their way out of it, what does that teach kids? It teaches them to think they're better than other people and shouldn't have to pay consequences for their actions like "normal" people.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, May 23, 2012 5:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA



I don't buy it Story - most of the evidence *I* have seen is contrary to that, and besides lemme point it out to you this way...

See that airport shakedown, THAT is what Zero-Tolerance looks like when it's pointed at YOU.
Does that mean most of the folk inflicted by it can't behave, or is it in fact a massive overreaction to a negligable threat in order to appease agendas ?

Before you light into me over the usual, lemme clarify my position on this a bit.
I mislike Zero-Tolerance not only cause it's based on lies, and deliberate, intentional, willfully-ignorant misconceptions(1)... but ALSO because it takes the form of discipline out of the hands of the staff on site, the same way mandatory sentences take decision making out of the courts hands in a manner I feel unconstitutional.

HOWEVER, there's also a looming danger in allowing staff on site to make those decisions in that they may try to fulfill personal grudges and the like - folks think bullying magically ends when people graduate and it don't, oft-times the bullies wind up in positions of power in the community and use those to continue the aggression: that is pretty much was Blake vs Lower Merion was all about, the school admin considering his family to be of a lower social "class" and unwelcome, which was ever more evident by the crap they pulled on the siblings, and some of their own comments, yadda yadda...

Instead of Zero-Tolerance or carte blanche, I favor creating a set of uniform guidelines for school conduct and punishment on an appropriate scale with some built-in fudge factor for mitigating circumstances - while this will not wholly eliminate abuses and excesses, it would cut them down significantly, and provide a stable structure and more level playing field.
That said - there MUST be student input on the matter, because if they feel part of the process there's a lot less likely to be backlash and sabotage as there would be if it were yet another matter imposed on them from on-high, sans consent or input.

Ain't that I think public schools are a font of evil - so much as they're totally broken in a fashion which has essentially reduced them to the same fell social order of the penal system, and this is wholly unacceptable.
I'd like to fix them, but I'd also like to see other options for kids who don't do well in such a rigidly structured system.

(1) Regarding such myths - in almost every case I treat these in the same dismissive fashion, because all too often they're foisted off deliberately by agendas.

That whole we're all ravening beasts held in check by the iron fist of government notion, for example, always, always offered by someone who out of the goodness of their own heart (yeah,right!) intends to BE that iron fist, but if we fail to buy into it and drink that koolaid, they don't get the power they desire to use and abuse.

Same goes for "all kids are lying manipulators" - for a fact, kids can't lie for shit, most of em cannot for the life of em maintain a deception for even a short time without resorting to another and another till it collapses under the weight of its own ridiculousness - they learn THAT crap from us, with our endless doubletalking hypocrisy, and being punished for honesty.
Or "all teens are sex-crazed maniacs" - which is also horseshit, given the comparative rarity of actually getting to first base even with most of em, for all the TALK otherwise, and that's just what it is, talk...
But it's a useful crowbar to demonize them with, so we don't have to admit they're human.
Or the full circle irony of "my teen doesn't obey, they're on drugs!", which has come now all the way around to "my teen doesn't obey, they SHOULD be on drugs!", which is even more ironic since in some cases we're talkin about the SAME DAMN DRUGS, as if being packaged by Big Pharma makes it any damn better ?

So this whole "thier parents don't abuse them enough, they're running wild" bullshit means no more to me than any other obvious bullshit - firstoff, they're CHILDREN, or Teens, which is somewhere BETWEEN child and adult, and this is a progression instead of a goddamn ON/OFF switch no matter what the law says, and some kids take more or less time in that progression, they're not all built to the same specs and pretending they are is ridiculous - as well you also have the damn unrealistic expectations of adults on top of a society that never gives them a fucking chance to concentrate without throwing distractions at them - something which medication is only the barest temporary fix for and moderately destructive in the long term since via that dependence they never DEVELOP the ability to focus without that particular crutch, which also has backlash effects regarding impulse control as well.
Take fifty of those "running wild" children and find out how many are "on something" - consider what happens when that suppressive affect wears off, neh ?

As for the more, err... "vicious" misbehavors, violent ones - consider THIS analogy.
Guy buys a puppy - people tell em dogs are untrustworthy, vicious, need be cowed and broken.
So the guy regularly abuses the dog to break its will, force its obedience.
The dog eventually mentally snaps and goes after the guy.
The guy points a shaking finger at the dog and screams "See, he TURNED on me, they were right!!".
And the "advice" given to the guy is usually that he was too much of a wuss, that he didn't hit the dog hard enough, often enough, that he didn't really cow it or break its will...

Now, swap out guy for parent, and dog for kid - and THAT RIGHT THERE, is exactly the fucking model promoted by this myth making bullshit, courtesy of psychos like Dobson, Ezzo and the like, a model might I remind you proven to be downright abusive if not outright lethal.

Sure, there's kids who act out - but there's generally a reason involved, and to make automatic assumptions cause you've been told by very untrustworthy people to make them, that's a fools gambit.
And yes, there's folks who fail pretty bad as a parent - but why exactly does that make it some kind of okay to take it out on the kids who are victim of an incompetent parent, why ?
Just cause they're easier targets with no legal rights, hmmm ?

Anyhows, a standardized discipline code with some leeway in it would be a damn good first step, both cost-effective and wholly sensible - problem is, again and as usual, that whole admission that children are persons, human beings with rights - and that's a damn big hurdle, most days.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Everyone who doesn't say "Yes Massa" today is Colombine all over again.....

This Mad world we live in....


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 25, 2012 5:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

In the end, there is almost ZERO taught in K-12 that your parents shouldn't be able to teach since it's all dumbed down to the lowest common detonator.
What a crock! First off: How many parents would bother? Second: How many parents in your wildest dreams actually KNOW all that's taught K-12? Third: How does a child get socialization if taught at home? Lastly: In a society where most families include two working parents, where would they even find the time, if they had the inclination and dedication? Teachers put in much more time than actual class time, planning lessons, grading...for each of their individual classes. Imagining a parent doing all that for ALL clases? Truly a bullshit statement.

The "capitalists" have really done a number on our society. We now have on-line, for-profit universities (the majority of which charge too much and don't provide good educaiton) and for-profit charter schools (which the disadvantaged can't afford). We now have for-profit prisons. All this "government doesn't do a good job" shit will look pretty silly if they manage to get for-profit EVERYTHING, because for profit means profit outweighs quality for the receiver eventually, a profit is the major motivator.

Yeah, there's a LOT wrong with our education system. But to say there's nothing in it that parents couldn't teach is ridiculous. I REMEMBER high school, from French class to history to social studies to English. No parent could come close...maybe if you made it everything up to high school, you MIGHT have an argument. But including high school in that? Absurd.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 25, 2012 3:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I grew up for my first 10 years of public education falsely believing I was a genius. As much as I blame the school system for this, I also have to lay blame on my Father and my Mom's Dad for teaching me everything from reading and basic math, to being able to tell time on a non-digital watch and knowing the names of all of the planets and their moons before I was in Kindergarten.

AS GOOD as that head start goes, when your grandpa dies and your parents split, and the learning stops at home, all you have left is school. It was at least another 5 years in school before I learned a single thing that I hadn't already been taught.

Long story short, I skated by through high school that way with a 3.8 GPA out of 4 and I NEVER did one single hour of homework.

Then came college.... You actually had to WORK outside of school. I had no idea what I was doing and I couldn't focus at the task at hand. Sure, English and Philosophy and Biology and Computers came easy to me, but I can't pass College level Algebra or Chemistry for the life of me simply because I never had any need to learn to apply myself to memorize facts and ideas so banal and useless to anyone who wasn't trying to be a chemist or engineer or a teacher. Algebra and Chemistry are the only two reasons why I don't have a degree today.




About the socialization issue... all I can agree with you on that is 3 of my long time friends I would have never known if I didn't go to school. Aside from that, until I put on massive weight in Jr year, I was the 78lb weakling with glasses and braces. There were no "anti-bullying" campaigns back then. I beat up as many guys who beat me up, doing whatever was necessary to win, for sure... but even though I'm a 5'7" 180lb brick shithouse today, I still feel uncomfortable around a lot of people I don't know.

The social merits of public school are only beneficial to the beautiful and/or well connected people.



As I've said before, in 12 years of public school, the ONLY course I ever took that made me money down the road was a one-semester keyboarding course. Before that, I used to type by sight with 2 fingers.

Ironically, because the grades I got in the class overall were so good before, I was the only one of about 6 of my friends who actually passed the course with (my first ever) D. One day, or teacher was out and we had a test to take... none of us felt like doing it so we just copied and pasted Gary's test and printed it out. She caught on when all 7 of us made the same mistake.

She even spoke to me one day after class and apologized because she had to do what she had to do. I told her not to worry about it. I wasn't going for a scholarship or anything anyway. At least Gary still managed to get his teaching degree and now teaches History and coaches wrestling at my old high school.




As for French class.... what job oppurtunities did that garner you in the end Niki? Any school funded by taxpayer dollars worth its salt would only offer 2 foreign languages in an effort to keep us competitive with the rest of the world.

Spanish and Chinese....

Learning French is like masturbating for 6 months straight without ever climaxing.

Sure it's fun, but what's the payoff in the end?????

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 25, 2012 3:09 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Learning French is like masturbating for 6 months straight without ever climaxing.


Hello,

This is off-topic, but I have noticed that you mention masturbation... a lot.

It's certainly your right to do so, but I wondered if you were unaware of it, and might enjoy the opportunity to broaden the scope of your metaphors and analogy.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 25, 2012 3:38 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


http://www.alternet.org/education/154541/barely_literate_how_christian
_fundamentalist_homeschooling_hurts_kids?page=entire



Barely Literate? How Christian Fundamentalist Homeschooling Hurts Kids
The Religious Right touts homeschooling as the "responsible" educational choice. But what about the kids whose parents opt-out of the system -- and out of educating them, as well?


Take Vyckie Garrison, an ex-Quiverfull mother of seven who, in 2008, enrolled her six school-age children in public school after 18 years of teaching them at home. Garrison, who started the No Longer Quivering blog, says her near-constant pregnancies – which tended to result either in miscarriages or life-threatening deliveries – took a toll on her body and depleted her energy. She wasn’t able to devote enough time and energy to homeschooling to ensure a quality education for each child. And she says the lack of regulation in Nebraska, where the family lived, “allowed us to get away with some really shoddy homeschooling for a lot of years.”

“I’ll admit it,” she confesses. “Because I was so overwhelmed with my life… It was a real struggle to do the basics, so it didn’t take long for my kids to fall far behind. One of my daughters could not read at 11 years old.”

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 25, 2012 5:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

Hello,

This is off-topic, but I have noticed that you mention masturbation... a lot.

It's certainly your right to do so, but I wondered if you were unaware of it, and might enjoy the opportunity to broaden the scope of your metaphors and analogy.

--Anthony




Thanks for the tip Anthony, but nope...

I feel no shame to say that I do it, and I do it a lot....

It's the only reason why I've gotten where I am today.



If I could serve a purpose to any male kids out there today, I'd just say these two things....

1) In the end, aside from some emotional support she may or may not give you depending on how you behave and the time of month, there's nothing worthwhile pursuing a long term commitment if she's not paying your bills....

2) After sex with an established partner is set in stone with a ring, you're always going to want more.

Don't get married, don't get a ring, tie your tubes up and don't have kids....




To put this into words that Lefties would understand.....

What is your largest carbon footprint....?????

It's your kid(s)

So....

Don't have any

Don't have kids.... save the world....




As for your post Anthony, I don't retract anything. Masturbation is better than sex when it's mental. It's unargumentalby the best form of birth control. I'd rather masturbate to a 10 year old video of Britney preforming "Stronger" than go out and have sex tonight.

According to me, this is not sad, although your opinion may differ...



Hell... I know it's sad.....

But at the same time, had I blown all my loot the last 5 years on women I probably wouldn't marry, where would I be today without a job?






Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 25, 2012 8:50 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

I don't buy it Story - most of the evidence *I* have seen is contrary to that, and besides lemme point it out to you this way...

See that airport shakedown, THAT is what Zero-Tolerance looks like when it's pointed at YOU.
Does that mean most of the folk inflicted by it can't behave, or is it in fact a massive overreaction to a negligable threat in order to appease agendas ?

Before you light into me over the usual, lemme clarify my position on this a bit.
I mislike Zero-Tolerance not only cause it's based on lies, and deliberate, intentional, willfully-ignorant misconceptions(1)... but ALSO because it takes the form of discipline out of the hands of the staff on site, the same way mandatory sentences take decision making out of the courts hands in a manner I feel unconstitutional.

HOWEVER, there's also a looming danger in allowing staff on site to make those decisions in that they may try to fulfill personal grudges and the like - folks think bullying magically ends when people graduate and it don't, oft-times the bullies wind up in positions of power in the community and use those to continue the aggression: that is pretty much was Blake vs Lower Merion was all about, the school admin considering his family to be of a lower social "class" and unwelcome, which was ever more evident by the crap they pulled on the siblings, and some of their own comments, yadda yadda...

Instead of Zero-Tolerance or carte blanche, I favor creating a set of uniform guidelines for school conduct and punishment on an appropriate scale with some built-in fudge factor for mitigating circumstances - while this will not wholly eliminate abuses and excesses, it would cut them down significantly, and provide a stable structure and more level playing field.
That said - there MUST be student input on the matter, because if they feel part of the process there's a lot less likely to be backlash and sabotage as there would be if it were yet another matter imposed on them from on-high, sans consent or input.

Ain't that I think public schools are a font of evil - so much as they're totally broken in a fashion which has essentially reduced them to the same fell social order of the penal system, and this is wholly unacceptable.
I'd like to fix them, but I'd also like to see other options for kids who don't do well in such a rigidly structured system.

(1) Regarding such myths - in almost every case I treat these in the same dismissive fashion, because all too often they're foisted off deliberately by agendas.

That whole we're all ravening beasts held in check by the iron fist of government notion, for example, always, always offered by someone who out of the goodness of their own heart (yeah,right!) intends to BE that iron fist, but if we fail to buy into it and drink that koolaid, they don't get the power they desire to use and abuse.

Same goes for "all kids are lying manipulators" - for a fact, kids can't lie for shit, most of em cannot for the life of em maintain a deception for even a short time without resorting to another and another till it collapses under the weight of its own ridiculousness - they learn THAT crap from us, with our endless doubletalking hypocrisy, and being punished for honesty.
Or "all teens are sex-crazed maniacs" - which is also horseshit, given the comparative rarity of actually getting to first base even with most of em, for all the TALK otherwise, and that's just what it is, talk...
But it's a useful crowbar to demonize them with, so we don't have to admit they're human.
Or the full circle irony of "my teen doesn't obey, they're on drugs!", which has come now all the way around to "my teen doesn't obey, they SHOULD be on drugs!", which is even more ironic since in some cases we're talkin about the SAME DAMN DRUGS, as if being packaged by Big Pharma makes it any damn better ?

So this whole "thier parents don't abuse them enough, they're running wild" bullshit means no more to me than any other obvious bullshit - firstoff, they're CHILDREN, or Teens, which is somewhere BETWEEN child and adult, and this is a progression instead of a goddamn ON/OFF switch no matter what the law says, and some kids take more or less time in that progression, they're not all built to the same specs and pretending they are is ridiculous - as well you also have the damn unrealistic expectations of adults on top of a society that never gives them a fucking chance to concentrate without throwing distractions at them - something which medication is only the barest temporary fix for and moderately destructive in the long term since via that dependence they never DEVELOP the ability to focus without that particular crutch, which also has backlash effects regarding impulse control as well.
Take fifty of those "running wild" children and find out how many are "on something" - consider what happens when that suppressive affect wears off, neh ?

As for the more, err... "vicious" misbehavors, violent ones - consider THIS analogy.
Guy buys a puppy - people tell em dogs are untrustworthy, vicious, need be cowed and broken.
So the guy regularly abuses the dog to break its will, force its obedience.
The dog eventually mentally snaps and goes after the guy.
The guy points a shaking finger at the dog and screams "See, he TURNED on me, they were right!!".
And the "advice" given to the guy is usually that he was too much of a wuss, that he didn't hit the dog hard enough, often enough, that he didn't really cow it or break its will...

Now, swap out guy for parent, and dog for kid - and THAT RIGHT THERE, is exactly the fucking model promoted by this myth making bullshit, courtesy of psychos like Dobson, Ezzo and the like, a model might I remind you proven to be downright abusive if not outright lethal.

Sure, there's kids who act out - but there's generally a reason involved, and to make automatic assumptions cause you've been told by very untrustworthy people to make them, that's a fools gambit.
And yes, there's folks who fail pretty bad as a parent - but why exactly does that make it some kind of okay to take it out on the kids who are victim of an incompetent parent, why ?
Just cause they're easier targets with no legal rights, hmmm ?

Anyhows, a standardized discipline code with some leeway in it would be a damn good first step, both cost-effective and wholly sensible - problem is, again and as usual, that whole admission that children are persons, human beings with rights - and that's a damn big hurdle, most days.

-Frem




what he said ^

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 25, 2012 8:57 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
http://www.alternet.org/education/154541/barely_literate_how_christian
_fundamentalist_homeschooling_hurts_kids?page=entire



Barely Literate? How Christian Fundamentalist Homeschooling Hurts Kids
The Religious Right touts homeschooling as the "responsible" educational choice. But what about the kids whose parents opt-out of the system -- and out of educating them, as well?


Take Vyckie Garrison, an ex-Quiverfull mother of seven who, in 2008, enrolled her six school-age children in public school after 18 years of teaching them at home. Garrison, who started the No Longer Quivering blog, says her near-constant pregnancies – which tended to result either in miscarriages or life-threatening deliveries – took a toll on her body and depleted her energy. She wasn’t able to devote enough time and energy to homeschooling to ensure a quality education for each child. And she says the lack of regulation in Nebraska, where the family lived, “allowed us to get away with some really shoddy homeschooling for a lot of years.”

“I’ll admit it,” she confesses. “Because I was so overwhelmed with my life… It was a real struggle to do the basics, so it didn’t take long for my kids to fall far behind. One of my daughters could not read at 11 years old.”




An interesting and balanced article. There is some scary ultra right religious stuff happening in the States.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, May 25, 2012 8:59 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


6 - I think your choices are good ones for you, and for all the women you might encounter.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, May 26, 2012 3:13 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
6 - I think your choices are good ones for you, and for all the women you might encounter.



Even if that was meant as an insult MD, I don't take it as one....

I know that in every single one of my failed relationships I was always the lowest common denominator. Sure, I never would think of physically abusing a woman, but when it comes to making a woman love me enough that she'll put up with anything I've got that skill in spades.

My mom got conned by a guy like that when I was 8 who took her for a lot of money. For whatever reason, he took a great liking to me and spoiled the shit out of me (probably with money my mom gave him). He hated my 2 younger brothers though. He's actually the first person who got me interested in home improvement before things exploded.

I never remember him doing anything like this before, and it might have been because he was hopped up on drugs at the time (looking back, he was definately the type), but me at 8 years old and my bro of 6 cowered in the hallway while he choked my mom against the living room wall.

It was one of those "deer in headlights" moments. We should have been on the phone with the cops, but we just sat there watching it in extreme fear.






I think that everyone who is over 30 years old has about, more or less, 10 specific moments they can always flash back to and relive in a second that make up who they are today.

I also believe that, genetically, every human is born with the same primal desires from scratch, and most specifically these 10 or so "flash points" are the epitome of the "Environmental" factor that make us all the individual snowflakes we are today.



Things I know about me for sure....

I hurt anyone I get close to. At first, it's all about opening car-doors and buying roses and being a prince, but after the under-my-thumb time comes around, I make them cry. I love these girls when they're new, but after the time has been put in and the newness wears off, I attempt... and usually achieve.... absolute control over them and have them doing and dressing and saying as I wish. After that point, I get bored of them and discard them.

I would NEVER physically hurt a woman.... The very idea brings back flashes of my Mom being strangled and makes me sick....

I'm better off as a lone wolf......


My only (possible) argument with your post MD, is the possible implication that I may be a "lower" form of human in your mind because of the way I think.

I'd argue that I'm more enlightened that most you know, having that knowledge of my own self...

I know that I'm bad in relationships and that will probably never change. I know that once a girl reaches 30 years old, she's no longer attractive at all to me. Knowing these two things, why would I ever court a woman with the intent of getting married when I know forthright what the outcome would be? How would that be fair to her?



I'm a provider by nature, but not in the traditional sense.

As soon as I get gainful employment, I'll be sitting on the perfect pedestal to help everyone I care about and their children.

Not to give myself a label, but think of me at that time as a Priest who doesn't go to church.



Mancow back in the day said that he belives that divorced kids should never get married. I disagree only because My bro got married and I think their relationship is awesome and I love my new (and first) sister to death......

In my case though.... I've witnessed some pretty downright vile things...

Mom getting strangled.... check...

Mom and Dad locking themselves in the bedroom screaming at the top of their lungs about things I don't understand when I'm only 5 years old and not opening the door when I banged on it and cried.... check....

Dad leaving the house for good and being told the word "divorce" at 5 years old even though I don't understand it..... check.....

Not to mention... it was only 5 years later that we were all brought back together again in some sick and twisted HP Lovecraft fashion when my 6 year old brother suffered a brain hemorrhage and multiple massive strokes. For nearly half a year, the hospital was my second home.



I've got more baggage than U/A during the holidays....

All I'm asking is to show a little respect....

By now I could have 15 kids running around with no means to pay for any of them. The only thing that kept me from ever having kids, aside from condoms back when I did regularly have sex, is my own hatred for myself.

1 out of 3 ain't bad....

Oldest bro is an OCD Micro-maniac. Youngest bro is an OCD Megalomaniac who HATES God and everyone who isn't white and believes that he is God. Somehow, my middle bro is the best person I've ever known in the world, and his wife is just as awesome to be around.



Sometimes I wish I was 200lbs overweight and ugly. At least nobody would question why I never dated anymore.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, May 27, 2012 5:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Damn.....

Wast that a thread-killer?

I'd love to see what people thought of that bomb.

~6

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, May 27, 2012 5:23 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

I don't buy it Story - most of the evidence *I* have seen is contrary to that, and besides lemme point it out to you this way...



My experiences are what they are. I don't require your acceptance of this.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:29 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
My experiences are what they are. I don't require your acceptance of this.


Nor should you.
I am certain Wulfies experiences with people of other ethnicities are different from mine as well - but none of our small slices is the entire reality of the world, neither.

I DO think there's enough common ground on the notion of a standardised code of conduct for us to discuss it regardless of our differences of opinion though, I mean if they could institute something as ridiculous as Zero-Tolerance wholesale, why couldn't something more realistic be offered instead ?

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, May 28, 2012 10:45 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm rabidly pro public school.

I only think homeschooling is okay if you do it with a home school co op so the kids get socialized. I wouldn't make home schooling illegal, even though I'm opposed to it (except for home school co ops), but I think there need to be strict rules that kids need to be keeping up with their peers academically, otherwise maybe homeschooling isn't the right choice for them. I've seen too many instances of home schooled kids I know being behind. My best friend had to repeat the third grade over again when her mom put her in regular school, but she's still okay with the idea of home schooling, figure that one out.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Another Unarmed Black Teen Killed
Wed, October 22, 2014 22:51 - 512 posts
Michael Sam gets drafted.
Wed, October 22, 2014 22:18 - 43 posts
More great moments from that religion of PEACE !
Wed, October 22, 2014 22:15 - 105 posts
Is anyone else still slightly creeped out by the Japanese?
Wed, October 22, 2014 17:41 - 109 posts
ICYMI - Alabama House Speaker arrested on 23 felony counts.
Wed, October 22, 2014 15:25 - 12 posts
The Science of Global Warming
Wed, October 22, 2014 11:53 - 18 posts
Annie, get yer overcoat
Wed, October 22, 2014 10:13 - 1 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine
Wed, October 22, 2014 08:44 - 554 posts
Russia Says National Governments Should Control Internet
Wed, October 22, 2014 08:25 - 10 posts
How Nations Fail (USA, Take a Hint}
Wed, October 22, 2014 03:54 - 18 posts
Obamacare Anniversary - Goes By Virtually Unoticed
Wed, October 22, 2014 03:17 - 8 posts
Obama trying to kill republicanz
Tue, October 21, 2014 23:52 - 28 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL

OUR SPONSORS