REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Bully

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 01:21
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Friday, May 11, 2012 7:40 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)






http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/bullying-story-sidetracks-romneys-
campaign/story?id=16327280#.T61N35NPaME


Quote:

Mitt Romney is struggling to get beyond a story about the time he bullied a gay student at a boarding school four decades ago.

The story, reported by the Washington Post, gained traction and credibility as Romney's high school friends spoke on the record to corroborate the account of the candidate as a teenager cutting a gay student's hair while he was pinned to the ground.

"I saw it with my own eyes," Phillip Maxwell, a lawyer who was Romney's high school pal at the elite Cranbrook School in Michigan, told ABC News. "It was a hack job ... clumps of hair taken off."

Romney said in interviews on Thursday that he didn't remember cutting off John Lauber's hair while the student cried. He laughed off questions about it but also apologized for "dumb things" he did in high school and claimed that homosexuality was the furthest thing from his mind.











"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:01 AM

CAVETROLL


Are you the same person you were 45 years ago?

Not to mention the Washington Post changed their story without issuing a retraction after the family of the bullying "victim" complained.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/washington-post-changes-romney-bul
lying-story-without-issuing-correction_644360.html


Quote:


Washington Post Changes Romney Bullying Story Without Issuing a Correction
11:36 PM, MAY 10, 2012 • BY MARK HEMINGWAY
The Washington Post's Mitt Romney was a teenage bully story has caused a lot of media thumbsucking today. However, questions about the story itself keep emerging. The Post acknowledges that one of the major sources for the story was an Obama campaign volunteer in 2008. Beyond that, the paper's been less than transparent. Here's the orginal version of the story:

“I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and has long been bothered by the Lauber incident.”

However, Matt Lewis of The Daily Caller noted that White told ABC News a different version of the story:

White was not present for the prank, in which Romney is said to have forcefully cut a student’s long hair and was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post.

After ABC News's report, the Post had changed its story. It now reads:

“I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and said he has been “disturbed” by the Lauber incident since hearing about it several weeks ago, before being contacted by The Washington Post. “But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks.”

Emphasis added. That is a pretty substantive change to the story, yet nowhere does the Post note that a correction/clarification has been made.

In addition, the Post story quotes the older sister of Romney's alleged bullying victim at the very end of the piece. Yet, when she was contacted by ABC News and asked for comment she was not happy with how her brother had been portrayed:

She added she and her sisters will likely put out a statement later via a family attorney.

“If he were still alive today, he would be furious [about the story],” she said with tears in her eyes.



45 years ago. Weak. Hey, let's talk about Obama's admitted cocaine use.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2012/05/10/did-washpost-report
-5000-word-expose-obamas-cocaine-use-last-cycle-cours

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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I wondered how long it would take for that to pop up. It kinda fits with the impression I've gotten of Romney all along. Someone who wants to be part of the "in crowd" and has no particular conscience about leading them. It's kinda easy to picture, if you close your eyes and picture Mittens, stiff as a board, being "big man on campus" and picking on those who are "different".

He just doesn't handle ANYTHING with aplomb, does he? Why not say he did stupid things when he was young, that was one of them, he regrets it now and has learned from it, or somesuch, rather than "I can't remember". As one pundit said, "bet the guy he beat up remmbered"...we'll never know, as he passed away a while back. But five classmates remembering it so clearly and Romney having no memory? Come ON!

Character, character, character...sad to say, I don't think he's got any.



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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:07 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Are you the same person you were 45 years ago?



Some people change, others do not.

In my experience, those who were assholes as teens and genuinely changed, don't make excuses for their past bad behavior, like saying it was "just a prank".

Those guys who rationalize their bahavior like that never change, because they don't perceive a reason to.

Quote:

45 years ago. Weak. Hey, let's talk about Obama's admitted cocaine use.



Which WAS talked about a lot last election, and he has never denied (or tried to rationalize away) - AND didn't harm anyone. Id say that's a pretty good case-in-point to show the difference between the two. Thnaks for mentioning it.

Many people, the President included, tried drugs in college. Far fewer got their kicks from bullying gay kids.

If tyhe bully is the guy you support, well, that says something about you, then.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:22 AM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Are you the same person you were 45 years ago?


Sorry to take the wind out of your sails, but, uh, yeah, I am.
And most of the kids in my HS who were bullies generally have had successful careers. Mostly in law enforcement & upper level retail management.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


All the kerfuffle about one reporting of the story is silly. To begin with, your quote from the sister is not quite complete:
Quote:

Christine Lauber, the older sister of Romney’s classmate, John Lauber, claims she has no knowledge of the bullying incident involving her brother, who passed away from liver cancer in 2004. When ABC News showed Christine the story, she became agitated and somewhat emotional.

“Even if it did happen, John probably wouldn’t have said anything,” she said. “If he were still alive today, he would be furious [about the story].”

In other words, she knows nothing. So much for that. I'm not surprised the family is upset at becoming the target of all this, most people would be! They did come out with a statement:
Quote:

“The family of John Lauber is releasing a statement saying the portrayal of John is factually incorrect and we are aggrieved that he would be used to further a political agenda,” she said. “There will be no more comments from the family.”
They're only complaining about the portrayal of Lauber, not that anything was incorrect about what happened. Breitbart is all over it, of course, saying just what you wrote and more...is anyone surprised?

There are, of course, the four classmates who verified the incident, and one who said he participated. And then there's
Quote:

One of Mitt Romney’s closest friends and a high school classmate has been asked by the Romney campaign to come out and offer “supporting remarks” in defense of the candidate following a Washington Post article that described pranks at the Cranbrook School in the 1960s that focused on a student who was “presumed” to be gay. Romney has denied that the pranks were targeted.

Romney’s older brother Scott called White, asking him to act as a surrogate for Romney on their high school years. White, in an interview with ABC News, said that he is “still debating” whether he will help the campaign, remarking, “It’s been a long time since we’ve been pals.”

According to White, he knows of several other classmates that have also been approached by the campaign to counter the article. White declined to name the fellow classmates.

One former classmate and old friend of Romney’s – who refused to be identified by name – said there are “a lot of guys” who went to Cranbrook who have “really negative memories” of Romney’s behavior in the dorms. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/romney-friend-stu-white-s
ays-campaign-wants-him-to-counter-prank-accusations/
makes some valid observations on it:
Quote:

Perhaps Romney is being completely sincere. But the Post confirmed the story with five witnesses, four of whom described it on the record, so there seems little doubt about whether it occurred. They were deeply troubled by their participation in it, and recall it vividly to this day.

A candidate who has struggled with seeming human, as Mitt Romney has, could have done himself a favor by using this as an opportunity to show a little more of himself. He could have said: Yes, it happened. It was stupid and cruel. I wish I could go back and undo it. But part of growing up is realizing where you failed when you were young, and learning from your mistakes so you can become a better person.

Most importantly, Romney could have said something that indicated he had a conception of how horrible the assault must have been for John Lauber, the victim. His only mention of Lauber, who died in 2004, was to say "I had no idea what that individual's sexual orientation might be."

By referring to Lauber as "that individual" he makes Lauber a nameless figure, further distancing himself from the incident. Which is exactly the opposite of what he should have done. After all, it's the quality of empathy -- being able to see things from someone else's perspective and feel what they feel -- that Romney has had trouble convincing voters he possesses.

This problem comes up for Romney again and again, often in the form of "gaffes" that are usually taken out of context, but still reveal a tin ear for the lives people lead.

Perhaps Romney really doesn't remember the assault on John Lauber nearly a half-century ago, despite the fact that so many of the other people who were there have never forgotten it. Or perhaps he decided that claiming ignorance would be the safest course of crisis management. But what he said told people nothing about the man he is today and how he has changed and grown over that time. We're all different people than we were in our youth, and we all have regrets. The 17-year-old Mitt Romney may have been a privileged, entitled boy with a mean streak. The 65-year-old Mitt Romney missed an opportunity to convince us he's something different.

I think that's very astute.

As to desperately trying to dig up something Obama did to minimize it, I'll just ask one thing: How many people did Obama's using cocaine hurt? The comparison is fallacious, in other words, and just one more attempt to find something, ANYTHING, to...I'm not sure what, actually. Except look foolish, which I'm sure wsn't the intent.





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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:38 AM

BYTEMITE


Frankly, Obama isn't great playing the celebrity card and I also think he's kind of easily manipulated... But Romney out and out scares me. I get the same vibe from him that I get from Hillary. >_> Like they might crush anyone who gets in their way without any regard, remorse, or empathy, and have serious psychopathic breakdowns whenever things don't go according to plan.

I can't prove it but there's just something that just hits me about them, some way in that they're just wrong somehow. It's the same thing I saw in Sarah Palin. I don't think these people are stable.

The fact that Romney's the kind of guy who'd try to laugh this off in a really creepy way and says he doesn't remember, well, it's not really helping settle my "holy $%!7 run" sense.

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Friday, May 11, 2012 8:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, my, I DO love spin. It's so much fun to see them twist and wriggle, JUST like our righties do here:
Quote:

Conservatives are hitting back at claims that Mitt Romney in 1965 terrorized a classmate who some presumed to be gay: President Obama was a bully, too!

Several right-leaning news outlets are pointing to an excerpt in the President's memoir, "Dreams from My Father," in which Obama details how he teased and shoved a middle school girl named Coretta — the only other black student in his grade.

"We have uncovered somebody who has actually admitted to engaging in real inappropriate behavior as a youth," Fox News host Sean Hannity said on Thursday evening.

The incident in question began when classmates during recess jeered that Obama was the girl's boyfriend.

Obama recounted in his 1995 book, "'She's not my g-girlfriend,' I stammered. I looked to Coretta for some assistance, but she just stood there looking down at the ground. 'Coretta's got a boyfriend! Why don't you kiss her, mister boyfriend?'"

He continued, "'I'm not her boyfriend!' I shouted. I ran up to Coretta and gave her a slight shove; she staggered back and looked up at me, but still said nothing. 'Leave me alone!' I shouted again. And suddenly Coretta was running, faster and faster, until she disappeared from sight. Appreciative laughs rose around me. Then the bell rang, and the teachers appeared to round us back into class."

Critics are contrasting the story with a report in the Washington Post in which witnesses described Romney bullying a suspected gay classmate when he was in high school. It came out a day after Obama publicly backed same-sex marriage.

According to the Post report, which the presumed Republican presidential nominee doesn't dispute, Romney led a pack of students to pin a boy down and forcibly cut his hair.

After the piece surfaced, Romney apologized, saying that while he doesn't remember all of his prep school "pranks," if "anyone was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize."

Conservative website Breitbart.com ran a headline accompanied with the Coretta passage, "Does WaPo know Obama shoved a little girl?" Right-leaning RedState.com and the National Review picked up on the Coretta story, too.

Hannity also declared Obama has a "worse record" of behavior, pointing to another excerpt in Obama's memoir in which he describes skipping classes, drinking beer and experimenting with drugs.

"That puts Romney and the bully issue to shame," Hannity argued.

Fox News' Kimberly Guilfoyle called the Washington Post story a "hit piece."

"They had to go back to the 1960s to try and find something bad to say about Mitt Romney," she said. "It's ridiculous — the lengths they’re going to, to try and taint him. They're obviously worried about his candidacy and they should be." http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/conservatives-counter-cl
aims-mitt-romney-a-bully-obama-worse-article-1.1076353
gotta giggle. It's exactly like our rightie here did, bringing up the cocaine. The difference is, Obama WROTE about what happened; Mitt claims he "doesn't remember". Cop out!

Amusingly, it's just as easy to picture what Obama described, only two African-American kids in the school, he's teased, embarrassed, there's no doubt embarrassment at being one of the only two in the school and being teased that she's his girlfriend, trying to deny it, being frustrated by her silence, pushing her to help him deny it--and I can just see the girl, embarrassed as hell, sensitive also to being one of only two African-Americans and being teased, running away from the situation.

AND it's so easy to see the campaign, desperately trying to get old classmates to support him, and reaching for SOMETHING to make Obama look worse. Plus the last bit is to laugh: "They had to go back to the 1960s to try and find something bad to say", when they just did PRECISELY the same thing!

Politics is funny--sad, but funny! The only serious thing about it, to me, is that bullying is still a very serious thing, and has caused suicides. Aside from the very relvant observations above, Romney could have made himself look SO much better if he'd used it to make a comment on bullying. Three or four misses there, in my opinion.



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Friday, May 11, 2012 9:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Are you the same person you were 45 years ago?


45 years ago. Weak. Hey, let's talk about Obama's admitted cocaine use.




Is Obama the same 6-year-old kid who ate dog meat? Is he the same child who was taken to another country and whose stepfather enrolled him in a school there?

You on the right have had lots of fun bringing up Obama's childhood, but y'all get squeamish when Romney's adolescence and adult behavior are brought up.


And yes, y'all have brought up EVERYTHING from Obama's past as indicators of his character and what kind of person you think he is.

Do you have some particular problem with bringing Romney's past behavior into the mix? Here's a guy who, when asked about cruelty to animals, laughs about it. Here's a guy who offers what he calls "a humorous story" and laughs while describing his dad closing a factory and moving production elsewhere, putting hundreds or thousands out of work. Here's a guy who laughs off bullying and battery, and laughs about liking to fire people. Here's a guy who says he's not concerned about the poor.

Do none of these things show any kind of pattern of behavior? Are they not valid indicators of his character?

And if you can't ever use anything from someone's past, what exactly are you supposed to use to decide whether they're a valid candidate or not?

How far back are you allowed to go? Or, more to the point, how far back am *I* allowed to go? Since you seem to think it's fine to dredge up stuff from when Obama was 6, why is Romney's behavior at 16 or 18 off limits?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Friday, May 11, 2012 9:17 AM

STORYMARK


Wow, a child lightly shoving a girl is terrible but a full on physical assault is "just a prank".

Such slimy bastards on the right.

Another note - if Romney genuinely doesn't remeber this - that makes it even worse. Ive done a few things in my life that I know were wrong - and they have stayed with me my entire life.

If he doesn't remember... how many horrible things has he done to make that such a negligible memory?

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, May 11, 2012 9:24 AM

WHOZIT


I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN! I WILL DRINK YOUR TEARS!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/11/Washington-Post-Rom
ney-Bullying-Profile-Contradicted-By-Automobile-Magazine


Everytime you libs think you got Mitt you end up with egg on your faces, just give up, join us on the "Dark Side"

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Friday, May 11, 2012 9:36 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN! I WILL DRINK YOUR TEARS!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/11/Washington-Post-Rom
ney-Bullying-Profile-Contradicted-By-Automobile-Magazine


Everytime you libs think you got Mitt you end up with egg on your faces, just give up, join us on the "Dark Side"



Well, at least your dumb ass is capable of recognizing youre on the side of evil.

The rest is, as usual, nonsense. I would point out that "seem to" and "infer" are not.... you, know, FACTUAL statements.... or that the article doesn't actually debunk a damned thing (its just written in such a way as to fool those easily fooled, like yourself) but you're not capable of mentally processing such big words, so I'll spare you.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, May 11, 2012 9:43 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN! I WILL DRINK YOUR TEARS!

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/11/Washington-Post-Rom
ney-Bullying-Profile-Contradicted-By-Automobile-Magazine


Everytime you libs think you got Mitt you end up with egg on your faces, just give up, join us on the "Dark Side"



Well, at least your dumb ass is capable of recognizing youre on the side of evil.

The rest is, as usual, nonsense. I would point out that "seem to" and "infer" are not.... you, know, FACTUAL statements.... or that the article doesn't actually debunk a damned thing (its just written in such a way as to fool those easily fooled, like yourself) but you're not capable of mentally processing such big words, so I'll spare you.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



Join me, and together we will rule Fresno.

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Friday, May 11, 2012 9:48 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I'm shocked! SHOCKED, I SAY!


Automobile magazine is still around?

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Friday, May 11, 2012 10:25 AM

STORYMARK


And apparently on the cutting edge of investigative journalism. Now we get to know the answers to the real pressing questions - does he use syhtetic oil? Standard or automitic? Does he believe in the power of fuzzy dice hanging from a mirror? Will his car elevator accomodate a Humvee?

The people need to know.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, May 11, 2012 10:50 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
And apparently on the cutting edge of investigative journalism. Now we get to know the answers to the real pressing questions - does he use syhtetic oil? Standard or automitic? Does he believe in the power of fuzzy dice hanging from a mirror? Will his car elevator accomodate a Humvee?

The people need to know.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



He knew him then, did you know him then? Use the force...and Synthetic oil, it's better.

www.mobil1.com

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Friday, May 11, 2012 11:08 AM

STORYMARK


5 people who knew him then have gone on record - to your one, from an auto mag.

Is there any subject you don't strive to look like a complete dumbass on?

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, May 11, 2012 11:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Omigawd, Whatzit is quoting BREITBART and thinks that proves something?! Not only is that fact alone hysterical, but so is the Breitbart "expose":
Quote:

Auto Mag does, however, quote Maxwell giving crucial details notably missing from the Post piece: “’I'm a Democrat, so I won't vote for him,’ says Maxwell. 'But he'd probably make a pretty good President. He's very smart, very principled.’”

The Post neglected to mention these relevant facts, just as it neglected to mention Maxwell’s skepticism about Romney’s religion as reported in the Auto Mag piece: “‘He’s determined to claim the highest office in the land--to be the first Mormon to do it. He keeps that undercover because he doesn’t want to frighten people.’”

He's a democrat...that makes anything he says a lie, right? Romney DOES downplay his Mormonism, it's been spoken of again and again. How does that disprove anything?
Quote:

The Post also creates inferences about Romney that seem to be debunked in the Auto Mag article. Horowitz quotes Matthew Friedemann, the most vocally harsh critic on the Lauber haircutting, in a manner inferring that Romney was a snobbish kid who owned his own car: “When Romney left the campus on weekends, he never invited him. ‘I didn’t quite fit into the social circle. I didn’t have a car when I was 16,’ Friedemann said.”
How does what Friedemann thinks of Romney in any way debunk the FACTS, on record by four witnesses and one who said ON RECORD that he participated in the hair-cutting incident?!

They quote "Dearth", but I can't find where they say who he is. (Note: I found him, Romney's "friend Gregg Dearth". Apparently this "friend" thinks just like Romney does--) This "Dearth" person says "And although it's been documented that Romney played a teenage prank or two--including once impersonating a police officer in order to scare some female friends". Good gawd, that's a "prank"...scaring young girls by pretending to be a policeman?!? This is cute or something?! This is RIGHT in line with a kid who would have his friends pull a "prank" on another kid by cutting his hair--if anything, it's evidence of EXACTLY what he would do!

Yeah, they then go into the inconsistency of the "several weeks ago"--but THEY do it to insinuate someone looked this whole thing up as some kind of political subterfuge. That's THEIR interpretation, has nothing to do with the facts of what Romney DID in school.

Lastly,
Quote:

To summarize: two current articles based on interviews with some of the same former classmates. But they present two differing and largely inconsistent portraits, with Horowitz's Washington Post either failing to investigate, or deliberately omitting, crucial and relevant information revealed by Murray in Automobile Magazine about Romney's character in high school. It would seem that the Post’s investigative journalism standards leave much to be desired.
There are not two inconsistent portraits--different people had different opinions of Romney. There was no "omission" of "crucial" information...the information is opinion, nothing more, and is irrelevant to the story of WHAT ROMNEY DID. They quote this Dearth person as some kind of effort to show Romney as a stand-up guy--but one of the pranks the quote includes is something that shows he has no empathy and is quite willing to SCARE people for his own amusement!

The whole thing is actually a really bad attempt to twist the story by showing different opinions of Romney, none of which is relevant to WHAT ROMNEY DID, which is documented by witnesses and a PARTICIPANT! This is what Whatzit thinks does...what exactly?

The way some people think is just plain WEIRD!



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Friday, May 11, 2012 5:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Some people change, some don't - and some change for the worse.
Doin it is one thing - but to then hire it out and profit from it...

http://reason.com/archives/2007/06/27/romney-torture-and-teens
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/06/mitt-romney-and-teen-tort
ure-industry.html


And of course he laundered and leveraged the income through Bain Capital while also defrauding investors by the fistfull, and so far he's gotten free pass after free pass from a media that COULD, if they wanted to, absolutely excoriate him, and has a moral responsibility to do so - they know all this info as well as I do, and more, and it was all perfectly sourced, cross-checked and confirmed, then handed to them on a plate by contacts they consider reliable.

So, why haven't any of em, not a one, acted on it ?
You tell me, folks - you tell me.

-Frem

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I would say "keep pushing them". And have these facts been presented to the Obama campaign? If they're valid, and I would say not beyond the pale (such as religion and personal life), I don't see why they'd bring them to light, unless they are holding them in reserve for closer to election time. Me, I'd be tickled to see ANYTHING verifiable to show the country who Romney REALLY is.

As to change, I would say some do, some don't, AND some learn as they mature, while some find ways to stay the same, manipulate others so as not to be seen for what they are, lead others to follow their example, and utilize systems to get what they want.


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Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:48 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Frem:

Get your stuff out on facebook. You'd be amazed how quickly things can catch fire in a social network with a "population" of hundreds of millions.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 6:04 AM

BYTEMITE


._.

>_> Kwicko, I know you mean well, but... Facebook BAD.

And not just the security compromising, but there's stuff Frem can't come forward with due to privacy issues of victims, aftermath, exposing his people, the people he's helped...

I mean I agree with the sentiment because I'd like to read up on Frem's experiences and solutions, but what I'm hoping is he has like some kind of time capsule thing. Which I suspect he has in place. >_>

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Oh, please - you can put stuff on a dummy account, and share as much or as little info as you want. And more importantly, you can get your information OUT THERE! The stuff you want to get out, you can.


Shit, do it from a public computer and use dead-end e-mail addresses and such, and you're even less exposed than you think.

ETA: I'm not talking about putting compromising info for Frem on facebook; I'm talking about putting the links out there among various facebook groups, of which there are plenty, many with viewership in the hundreds of thousands.

Frem wants to make this public information about Romney MORE public, get it widely disseminated, and facebook is a great tool for that. Look at what happened with the whole "Kony 2012" thing, Planned Parenthood, and more.

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 12:52 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:


Shit, do it from a public computer and use dead-end e-mail addresses and such, and you're even less exposed than you think.



Dead-end email addresses are a flag nowadays, so is TOR, and the thing about using public computers regularly to update a facebook account is that you'd have to be doing it REGULARLY. Especially to build a follower-base on facebook. We're talking time-investment, and the more time you're on facebook the easier they can get on your trail.

Stay away from facebook, in person face-to-face meets are a lot more secure, provided you know who you're meeting with.

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 1:17 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Christ, it's not like I'm asking anyone to share nuclear secrets!


Frem has articles that HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED. They are out there. He is not breaking any law in posting said articles to sites with high readership. He is not sharing anyone's personal information, not even his, and it's a chance to get stuff OUT THERE.

PN gets made fun of a lot for posting so much stuff, but at least he's not afraid to put it out there for viewing.

I've already shared a couple of the articles Frem posted with some well-placed friends, and we'll see where they turn up. If Romney's as dirty a little cockroach as they say, then by all means, let's turn the lights on!

Or just hide in the dark and hope no one notices...



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 3:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)









"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:13 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, please - you can put stuff on a dummy account, and share as much or as little info as you want. And more importantly, you can get your information OUT THERE! The stuff you want to get out, you can.


Shit, do it from a public computer and use dead-end e-mail addresses and such, and you're even less exposed than you think.

ETA: I'm not talking about putting compromising info for Frem on facebook; I'm talking about putting the links out there among various facebook groups, of which there are plenty, many with viewership in the hundreds of thousands.

Frem wants to make this public information about Romney MORE public, get it widely disseminated, and facebook is a great tool for that. Look at what happened with the whole "Kony 2012" thing, Planned Parenthood, and more.



Mike x 1000.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA



*villainous cackle*
Um, okay, while it wasn't well known here - I *DO* have a facebook page, it's a false front of generally generic meaningless fluff, but the REASON it is there is cause whoever created FB actually build in various exploits and insecurities in a fashion I do believe was on purpose, so there's an "offical" account, which is much of nothing, but it's also the jumpoff point for various untraceable chicanery as well.

Normally I don't discuss tactics in detail, but social media exploitation as you say is damn useful - particularly when no one can trace it back to anywhere in particular.

And of course, I am way ahead of the notion - as you say, problem is protecting sources and holding back stuff that could be legally prosecuted in order to prevent compromising court cases, but the general gist of it, that can be done, it's a matter of provoking interest, which is something in the works, but I *DO* have a life outside of my advocacy work and I've had to attend to it, plus the usual health issues and finding a new prosthetic provider to replace/fix this one since Medicaid gave a huge advance to this pack of scumbags which bought out and collapsed my pack of mad scientists.

Anyhows, workin on it.

-Frem

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:05 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:


Frem has articles that HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED. They are out there. He is not breaking any law in posting said articles to sites with high readership. He is not sharing anyone's personal information, not even his, and it's a chance to get stuff OUT THERE.



The time he published I know of, well, imagine an entire embedded network of spies right under your feet, and that's pretty much facebook.

Look, like I said I don't disagree about getting stuff out there, I'm more just objecting to facebook. But then, it's widely known and acknowledged I have issues.

Quote:

Or just hide in the dark and hope no one notices...


I never suggested anything like that.

Quote:

I've already shared a couple of the articles Frem posted with some well-placed friends, and we'll see where they turn up


THAT however is activity I can approve of. I'd like to help you strategize on that, unless the situation there is sensitive, full of journalism politics. Perhaps, best not, avoid compromising the story, the journalists on accident.

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Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:09 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

particularly when no one can trace it back to anywhere in particular.


Hmn. I hope so. Still seems like walking into the lion's den wearing a nice tailored suit made outta beef jerky.

I suppose to be fair to Kwicko, I should mention that I'm a hypocrite and have a battle.net account. But I still would not touch facebook... I figure that until CISPA passes and takes affect, the only thing someone can take from my battle.net account would be credit card information. Which I'm not sure why I would or should care about that.

Facebook seems a lot more dangerous in the implication and tracking side of things.

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:24 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Yes. This epidemic of ex post facto bullying must stop.

Perhaps Pres. Obama will also apologize for his.



http://thetalkofthetimes.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/obama-bullied-a-girl/

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Ah, I see Geezer's gone back to the old "But... but... OBAMA!"

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

particularly when no one can trace it back to anywhere in particular.


Hmn. I hope so. Still seems like walking into the lion's den wearing a nice tailored suit made outta beef jerky.

I suppose to be fair to Kwicko, I should mention that I'm a hypocrite and have a battle.net account. But I still would not touch facebook... I figure that until CISPA passes and takes affect, the only thing someone can take from my battle.net account would be credit card information. Which I'm not sure why I would or should care about that.

Facebook seems a lot more dangerous in the implication and tracking side of things.




The tactic I'm proposing is taking the links to the stories and exposés about Romney, and sharing them on various facebook pages and groups in the hopes that just ONE of them will strike a nerve, take hold, and spread. Think of it as waving a sparkler around in a hayloft - not every spark is going to start an inferno, but it only takes one.

Basically, if you can get the MSM talking about his past and his associations with WWASPS, you can get people digging further and further, hopefully. Remember, Watergate came undone because a couple reporters went, "Huh - someone broke into the headquarters of the DNC and got caught." And then they wouldn't drop it.

People in general, and media in particular, don't want a complicated, nuanced story. They want something they can blurt out in three minutes or less, with lots of juicy details and hints of scandal. Give them that, and you've got their full attention.

The best thing about facebook is that you have your circle of friends and contacts, but each of them have THEIR circles as well. Sometimes you post something on your page, or one one of your friends' pages, and it takes off and goes viral. 99% of the time it doesn't, but it only takes once, and putting the stuff in 100 places at once increases the likelihood that it gets noticed.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Ah, I see Geezer's gone back to the old "But... but... OBAMA!"



Let's see. According to the action/response tree, now I'm supposed to say something along the lines of, "But you don't deny Obama's bullying.", and wait for a reply.

No. I don't think so.


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Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Obama's bullying. Let's see. Setting aside that those facts were offered earlier in this thread (which apparently goes to Geezer's reading choices), let's look at the facts:

Some kids were teasing Obama, one of only two African-Americans in the school, about being the boyfriend of the only OTHER African-American in the school, who already had a boyfriend. On some levels, doesn't that count as "bullying"? He responded by asking the girl to verify that she WASN'T his girlfriend; she didn't speak up and the teasing continued. He then gave her a "slight shove"--and the teasing laughing continued. He wrote about it in a book.

Romney got some friends together and TACKLED a kid walking around minding his own business, got him on the ground and cut his hair while he cried and called for help. When asked about the incident, he claimed he "couldn't remember it".

Appears to me Obama was more the VICTIM of bullying than anything else. Might well be called "racist bullying" considering it involved teasing the only two African-Americans in an otherwise white school. Not much of a "comeback", if you ask me. In fact a pretty pathetic one. Better to go back to "but he ate DOG!", if you ask me, tho' that one would fail, too...either way, a rather sad attempt to do...what, exactly?



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Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:58 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Well Mikey, you're welcome to throw your hat in the ring - the journalist you'd prolly do best contacting is Maia Szalavitz, who also has it in for Romney and the Hellcamps about as badly as I do.

Right now I got a lot on my plate though, besides the usual I have to give some driving lessons, since it's become problematic that my ex's new husband cannot drive - he's got his learners but given the way my ex drives and the fact that her ginornimous truck is so hard to drive to begin with and has steering issues as it is...

Plus he's not real enthusiastic about it coming from a city with an actual semi-functional public transportation system, and having seen the way people in michigan drive... so we're dynamiting the pond by having me teach him in my sporty little BMW, which he has adored ever since he first laid eyes on it, it was him nudging me to test drive it when we were car shopping that caused me to take a second look at it in the first place.

Provided he doesn't kill us both, imma be on this in a coupla days or so.

-Frem

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 8:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Ah, I see Geezer's gone back to the old "But... but... OBAMA!"



Let's see. According to the action/response tree, now I'm supposed to say something along the lines of, "But you don't deny Obama's bullying.", and wait for a reply.

No. I don't think so.





So according to your own rules, you acknowledge Romney's bullying, right?

Obama's "bullying"? Okay, a light shove, as opposed to tacking a kid an giving him "a real hack job" of a haircut because you insist that "he can't look like that". Yeah, I think I'd rather be classmates with Obama, thanks.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 8:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Frem, I'm happy to share info and re-post the articles you listed above, and I'll pepper them everywhere I visit on facebook, from Rachel Maddow to Dan Carlin to MoveOn to Teabonics and more.

Maybe somebody will bite. At this point, it can't hurt to try.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 10:32 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Obama's bullying. let's look at the facts:




Really? Facts?

Here's what Obama wrote.



And here's your bowdlerized version. with comments.

Quote:

Some kids were teasing Obama (Well, both Obama and Coretta), one of only two African-Americans in the school, about being the boyfriend of the only OTHER African-American in the school, who already had a boyfriend (Where is it indicated that Coretta already has a boyfriend? Per Obama "She was plump and dark and didn't seem to have many friends."). On some levels, doesn't that count as "bullying"? He responded by asking the girl to verify that she WASN'T his girlfriend (No indication of that. Just Obama denying it. ""I'm not her boyfriend" I shouted."); she didn't speak up and the teasing continued. He then gave her a "slight shove" ("...she staggered back and looked up at me, but still said nothing". So either the shove was harder than "slight", or she was shaken by his response.)--and the teasing laughing continued (...as he shouted "Leave me alone" and she ran off to the crowd's laughter.) He wrote about it in a book.



Now just for fun, let's spin it the other way, using only facts from his own writing, and some recent comments by black activists.

Coretta, up to now the only black person in her grade, has been ignored by most of the other children, with few she could call friends. She finally gets another black kid - a young boy - in her grade, and after a while, they talk and she starts playing with him - laughing brightly at his teasing as they play tag. It seems like she finally has someone to associate with and to have fun with. Then the other children gang up on both of them. Will her new friend stand up for her? Help her deal with the taunting? No. He disavows her, that "plump and dark" girl who "didn't seem to have many friends", and forces her away, "...running, faster and faster, until she disappeared from sight." to the appreciative laughs from the other children.

And this child who rejected a black girl in need of support, and as a man continues to reject black people today, is President Barack Obama.


Pretty silly?

Yeah.

About as silly as the fuss over Romney's actions as a child.



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Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

About as silly as the fuss over Romney's actions as a child.




Or Obama's "Muslim" beliefs, or the actions of his pastor, all of which the right thought were fair game.

Tell me, did you spend this much time playing mother hen to your right-wing pals when they brought up such stuff?


And he rejected black people? Really? Gosh, I hope nobody tells him that his wife is black!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:51 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Tell me...



No.

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 1:03 PM

1KIKI

Today, scientists sound the alarm on other environmental dangers. Vested interests still hire their own scientists to confuse the issue. But in the end, nature will not be fooled. Neil deGrasse Tyson


"A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors."

In a more law-abiding society, Romney et al would have been charged with assault.

Yep Geezer, that's the behavior you want to downplay. It makes quite an interesting picture about the snakes in your head.

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 1:17 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Yes. This epidemic of ex post facto bullying must stop.

Perhaps Pres. Obama will also apologize for his.



http://thetalkofthetimes.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/obama-bullied-a-girl
/



Yeah, one teased child giving a "slight shovew" to another teased child is the same as a teen planning and executing an assault on another.

But you don't equivicate.... shit, that's ALL you do anymore. Im surprised you can stand upright with all that bending over backwards you do.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:52 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


That is pretty bad. He should have admitted it, apologized for his cruel behavior (that would be scary to have happen to you) and say he realizes he was wrong and hopes people will move on with him.

I'm sure Frem has ways of getting his info out there for the right people to see.

I'm opposed to boarding school, the only time that should be used is if kids don't have proper parents who can raise them themselves and send them to ordinary school, public, private, home/co-op etc.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Monday, May 14, 2012 2:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

Yeah, one teased child giving a "slight shovew" to another teased child is the same as a teen planning and executing an assault on another.



A 'slight shove' doesn't put one on the ground. Ya gotta really push, hard. Obama pushed a girl to the ground. He's a thug and a bully.

Just like putting the boot on the neck of BP, or telling the GOP to sit in the back of the bus, or informing us all that he'll be ready to RULE, from day one.

Real piece of work there.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Monday, May 14, 2012 4:06 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Just like putting the boot on the neck of BP


Weren't you upset about the whole BP thing, and also pissed off that Obama was so ineffective about it?

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Monday, May 14, 2012 4:27 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

A 'slight shove' doesn't put one on the ground. Ya gotta really push, hard. Obama pushed a girl to the ground. He's a thug and a bully.



And you know he knocked her to the ground... how? (I already know how you're going to answer, and Im already laughing at the distortion, but go for it, humor yourself).

Oh, right, becuase your an ass who invents things to make his fallacious points, gotcha.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, May 14, 2012 4:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Pretty silly?

Yeah.

Yes, it is...it's grasping for straws. How exactly did he "reject her"? She was being called his girlfriend--which is terribly embarrassing for a boy that age--and he was saying she was NOT. They'd been playing together for the first time and they're children...you expected him to stand up to the group of white kids and do what exactly? Say he IS her boyfriend? He can't "disavow" her unless she WAS his girlfriend, which obviously she was not.

Sure, I can see it from her point of view. She gets the courage to play with him and gets teased for it. I was one of those "other" people in school because I was skinny and had thick glasses and braces, I know how that would feel. I'd stand there shocked and scared too, and run as fast as I could away from the situation. I'd have done that even if the boy had said something like "leave her alone!" (which both of them knew wouldn't stop the teasing). "Reject black people"? Boy, you really had to twist THAT one around, didn't you?

Good gawd, Raptor; you are THAT desperate for attention??
Quote:

A 'slight shove' doesn't put one on the ground. Ya gotta really push, hard. Obama pushed a girl to the ground.
He didn't push her to the ground, for krist's sake, you don't understand the simple term "she staggered back"? Lying two posts after the facts are presented is reeeeely sad!

Every statement in the rest of that post is a lie too...boy, as a representative of the right, you certainly make them look worse than even THEY do (well, all but the worst of them anyway).



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Monday, May 14, 2012 4:31 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Good gawd, Raptor; you are THAT desperate for attention



Why even ask? I think even the 2 people who occasionally agree with him know the answer there.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, May 14, 2012 5:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Storybook - I DON'T know he pushed that little girl down. He may have pushed LOTS of women go the ground, and this one in his " autobiography " was merely a compression of them all, into 1 girl. Ya got me there.

Byte - I was & am pissed any time there's a massive oil spill or desecration to the environment. Like Dr. Banner said... " I'm always angry "



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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