REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Oh, THAT War on Women...

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Thursday, June 7, 2012 09:50
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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 11:03 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Um. But all them puppeteers we love to hate were every bit as indoctrinated as their followers. Blame is simply a flawed concept at its core.


Some. Not all of them. Just like the cult leader who doesn't believe his own schtick and extorts money from his followers.

Some of them actually are psychopaths (which they also can't help, like a dog can't help being rabid. No less dangerous). But some simply found power, then found they enjoyed abusing that power.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Seriously guys? Romney's gonna win? How do you figure? Even without a fremstyle secret weapon. The GOP's lost the women vote. They've lost the hispanic vote. They've lost the youth vote. Running a Mormon, they've lost the South. And running the guy who invented "Obamacare" they've lost everyone but the heartbroken Democrats who want to lash out at their own.



Romney's lost the illegal sympathizer hispanic vote. (My step dad is hispanic and owns his own struggling business in IL and would NEVER vote for Obama). Romney's lost the liberal bra-burning, government hand out, free abortion women's vote (my mother, who doesn't care for Romney simply because he's Morman isn't foolish enough to vote for Ron Paul with what's at stake). My guess is there will be close to ZERO youth vote in 2012 after all of those promises of hope and change left kids with over 100k of college debt trying to pay it off while working part time at Old Navy. As for the south... do you really think that the white folk down there would vote a black guy in over a Morman, when the 3rd option is just to stay at home and blame other people for whatever happens?

The flip side is that Obama lost the ENTIRETY of the independent thinkers that voted for him last time. He lost the white working class vote, much of which voted for him last time and most of which will come back in full force to vote for ANYBODY but him in 2012. The Obama administration knows all of these facts. This is why he's not focusing on college kids anymore, or touting Hope and Change. It's become dirty, it's become racist, it's become sexist, and he's doing whatever he can to rile up the special interest groups because that's the ONLY way he's getting back in.

Quote:

Meanwhile, Obama is a warhawk who killed OBL, with an economy that is improving and will continue to improve throughout the election season. And NOBODY runs a political campaign like Barack Obama. I mean, the guy's middle name is Saddam Hussein (almost) and his last name freakin' rhymes with "Osama" and he STILL won last time around.

When it comes to Presidential elections, it's positives that win. What positives does Mitt Romney have? If you can find any, ya might want to let the GOP know, 'cause they don't seem to have found 'em yet.



OBL... Oh yeah, Emannuel Goldstein. I wasn't even convinced he was a real person during the Bush Era and I thought he was just a photoshopped version of Scottie Pippen of the Bulls Dynasty (look up my Bush bashing posts in the pasts if you want proof of that). Did we get to see a body? lol.... nope. We got some grainy footage of what could have been a body dumped at sea that reminded me of any UFO or Bigfoot footage we've ever seen.

As for positives, what did Obama have behind him before he was in besides he was going to be the first black president? He was a junior Illinois politician with ties to Crook County politics. I'm ashamed that grew up in Crook County, ya know... the only county the entire US population knows about the last two governors being shamed, ousted and jailed because of how corrupt they are.


Oh... and I know you said something about the economy getting better.... Tell that to people like me who are trying way harder than they should to work at stores like Wal-Mart because nothing else is out there. All the decent entry-level jobs at companies you can actually get ahead in that I used to get without trying are given to the kids with bachelors degrees who are fighting tooth and nail for them. Gas per gallon is over 2 dollars a gallon at the end of Obama's first term then they were at the end of Bush's second term. The national debt has reached a point under Obama's watch that were now all working and paying taxes just to pay off the interest on the debt every year.


Stick a fork in Obama.... he's done. His wife and kids are going to have to start coping with the fact that they need to shop at Wal-Mart unless Daddy can write another book. No more $75,000 helicopter rides to Broadway plays for the Obama family.



TO ANYBODY HERE WHO THINKS OBAMA SHOULD GET A SECOND CHANCE..............

What has he done for us, other than take the debt I hated Bush Jr. for above all other things and multiplied it by 10 times? How would another 4 years of an Obama administration that wasn't concerned with being reelected make ANYTHING better for any of us?


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
But seriously.... Mitt IS going to win in November. There is NO QUESTION about that.


I assure you otherwise.
Kind of ironic they seem bent on running a candidate I have enough hard evidence to put in jail, hands down no bullshit.
The only thing about it what surprises me is that all the parties handed that evidence on a silver platter haven't seen fit to make any use of it yet, but maybe they're just feedin em rope.

Seriously, you also underestimate the bitter and volatile HATRED of the GOP which is boiling in the social-public kettle, just cause the only visible manifestation now is a few bubbles popping at the top, don't underestimate the turgid and roiling waters at the bottom - conditions in this country right now are all too damn similar to those just prior to the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror.

Seriously Jack, look up Robespierre and tell me we're not on the cusp of that kind of thing now.

-Frem



Hey Frem,

I guess this is one of the few things we actually disagree on.

Don't get me wrong... I HATE that Romney is the candidate of choice, but there's no way I'm voting for Ron Paul when it would help Obama get back in.

I'm sure you could put his ass in jail if you tried. What politician couldn't you say that about. I'd guess, not many, if you dug deep enough.

Maybe this is Robespierre all over again. Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind that Romney's the freakin' anti-christ. I always said that the only reason an untested black dude with very limited political experience who was "born" from the most corrupt state and county in the entire friggin country got elected presedent was because Bush seemed to do everything he could in 8 years to make the world hate America, white people, Christians, and anyone who actually was smart enough to be successful enough to live a good life without government help.

Who's to say that Obama didn't just pave the same path to make idiots like me vote for Satan in 2012????

Bottom line, I'm not at all celebrating a Romney victory, except for the fact that Obama is OUT!


You may not like it, even I may not like what's going to happen. Almost everybody else posting in this thread surely isn't going to like it. But it's DONE. OBAMA IS OUT!!!!!

All I can do is sit back and Hope for some Change.

If things ever get really bad, I know guys like you and me are capable of more than a little "terror" of our own as last resorts when our backs are against the wall.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:36 PM

BYTEMITE


If anyone is hoping for change, from Obama or his replacement, they're going to be seriously disappointed.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:30 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Um. But all them puppeteers we love to hate were every bit as indoctrinated as their followers. Blame is simply a flawed concept at its core.


I blame myself.

Seriously though HK, when do we get to a point where we EXPECT people to THINK? To REASON? To DEMAND logic? The poor, the uneducated, ok- free pass, but dorks like Hero & AU??? I'm with Story here; no excuse.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

What has he done for us, other than take the debt I hated Bush Jr. for above all other things and multiplied it by 10 times?



And of course you have cites to back up such claims, right?



Anyone?


Care to show me where Obama has pushed the debt to 119 trillion dollars?

The GAO says Obama's added a bit more than $2 trillion to the debt, which was more than $11.9 trillion by the time Bush's last fiscal year ended.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:32 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Um. But all them puppeteers we love to hate were every bit as indoctrinated as their followers. Blame is simply a flawed concept at its core.


I blame myself.

Seriously though HK, when do we get to a point where we EXPECT people to THINK? To REASON? To DEMAND logic? The poor, the uneducated, ok- free pass, but dorks like Hero & AU??? I'm with Story here; no excuse.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives






What makes you think "Hero" and Rappy are educated?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
How stupid are you, Rappy? Really? I ask in all seriousness - because Im having trouble believing someone who can read is stupid enough to believe half the crap you post.

You keep saying the real attacks on women come from the left - and all you do is trot out the same Maher quote, from what 4 years ago - while there are literally DOZENS of examples, with more being added by the fuckin DAY - of attacks on women from the right.

I know you can't help but stand up for the GOP no matter what.... but really, can you be THAT fucking deluded??



Bill Maher's comments weren't from " 4 years ago", but were fairly recently, like a day ago. I know, he's been picking on the Palin daughters for so long now, it just SEEMS like he's recycling his old jokes.

Quote:

Bristol Palin to Barack Obama: 'When should I expect your call?'

Bristol Palin, daughter of former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, has a simple question for President Obama: "When should I expect your call?"

"You don’t know my telephone number, but I hope your staff is busy trying to find it," she wrote in an open letter to the President posted on her blog Sunday.

She added:

Ever since you called Sandra Fluke after Rush Limbaugh called her a slut, I figured I might be next. You explained to reporters you called her because you were thinking of your two daughters, Malia and Sasha. After all, you didn’t want them to think it was okay for men to treat them that way

Palin then quoted the President's own words: “One of the things I want them to do as they get older is engage in issues they care about, even ones I may not agree with them on,” he said. “I want them to be able to speak their mind in a civil and thoughtful way. And I don’t want them attacked or called horrible names because they’re being good citizens.”



http://www.examiner.com/article/bristol-palin-to-barack-obama-when-sho
uld-i-expect-your-call?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next




But feel free to drop in a few more fucking's, while you're at it. They make your position all that much more convincing and valid.

I noticed you disputed exactly none of my points.

*yawn*


Chrissy - Mr Little Bitty Model Builder, calling anyone a 'dork' ? Too gorram funny!






" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 3:50 PM

STORYMARK


And I notice yet again that you dont have the balls to even discuss the comments this thread is about.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 3:51 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
If anyone is hoping for change, from Obama or his replacement, they're going to be seriously disappointed.



Bows his head in shame....

No...



Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

What has he done for us, other than take the debt I hated Bush Jr. for above all other things and multiplied it by 10 times?



And of course you have cites to back up such claims, right?



Anyone?


Care to show me where Obama has pushed the debt to 119 trillion dollars?

The GAO says Obama's added a bit more than $2 trillion to the debt, which was more than $11.9 trillion by the time Bush's last fiscal year ended.





Oh... you want PROOF... lol

http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-uni
ted-states.php



Quote:


2000 236.4 Billion Dollar Surplus 303.86 Billion Surplus D R R - Clinton
2001 127.3 Billion Dollar Surplus 158.93 Billion Surplus R D R - Bush
2002 157.8 Billion Dollar Deficit 194.1 Billion Deficit R D R - Bush
2003 374 Billion Dollar Deficit 449.52 Billion Deficit R R R - Bush
2004 413 Billion Dollar Deficit 483.61 Billion Deficit R R R - Bush
2005 319 Billion Dollar Deficit 361.27 Billion Deficit R R R - Bush
2006 248 Billion Dollar Deficit 272.23 Billion Deficit R R R - Bush
2007 162 Billion Dollar Deficit 172.89 Billion Deficit R D D - bush
2008 455 Billion Dollar Deficit 467.63 Billion Deficit R D D - bush
2009 1416 Billion Dollar Deficit 1459.79 Billion Deficit D D D - Obama
2010 1294 Billion Dollar Deficit 1312.37 Billion Deficit D D D - Obama
2011 1299 Billion Dollar Deficit 1299 Billion Deficit D D R - Obama



Which of those numbers confuse you, Kwicko!?

I HATED BUSH for the numbers you saw before Obama. How do you think I feel now!!!!!!!!?



EDITED TO ADD:

Might I again say that the house I'm living in now was valued much differently in 2005.

In 2005, the previous owners bought it for 145k.

In 2011, I bought it, in many needs of repairs, for 67k.

Without bothering to look up the exact gas prices of the days, a VERY conservative estimate would say that back when Bush Jr was president I could have bought at least 60,000 gallons of gas on his watch in trade for my house.

Today, I'd be lucky to get 15,000 gallons of gas for what I paid for it.








Oh, and before you quip that I'm just pulling those figures out of my ass, go ahead and test me....

In reality, they're much worse to either extreme in real life than I painted them here.... the difference is probably at least 15k gallons of gas more than I stated here.

Go ahead Kwicko, it's your move....

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 4:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Do you honestly not know the difference between debt and deficits?

Did you honestly think that the 2009 numbers were Obama's?

Do you know even less about how fiscal years work than I thought you did?


Wow. Just wow.


Your numbers are wrong; I'd double-check your sources, because I think they might be *a little* biased. Somehow, they managed to completely leave the $780,000,000,000.00 TARP bailouts completely off the 2008 numbers.

How'd that happen? Did they just do like right wingers always do, and blame it on Obama?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 4:56 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chrissy - Mr Little Bitty Model Builder, calling anyone a 'dork' ? Too gorram funny!

Some of my builds ain't so 'little bitty', you DORK.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured AURaptors

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 6:30 PM

BYTEMITE


Dork is a feature of cetacean anatomy.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 10:25 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Might I again say that the house I'm living in now was valued much differently in 2005.

In 2005, the previous owners bought it for 145k.

In 2011, I bought it, in many needs of repairs, for 67k.

Without bothering to look up the exact gas prices of the days, a VERY conservative estimate would say that back when Bush Jr was president I could have bought at least 60,000 gallons of gas on his watch in trade for my house.

Today, I'd be lucky to get 15,000 gallons of gas for what I paid for it.





I'm not sure you can lay the blame for the house devaluation with the Obama administration, seeing as how he inherited an economy ready to blow. Not even the most conservative of commentators can lay the GFC at his feet.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012 11:12 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Blame has nothing to do with it.
Deserve's got nothin to do with it neither.
It's not even a matter of Obama being a gutless wishy-washy scumbag.

It's a matter of the GOP having gone full out, flat out, batshit fucking WWIII insane, and the absolutely critical need to put a stop to that shit before it ends in a mushroom cloud.

And thus, whatever I feel I must do to prevent that, I WILL do, no matter how awful a thing it is.

-Frem

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Might I again say that the house I'm living in now was valued much differently in 2005.

In 2005, the previous owners bought it for 145k.

In 2011, I bought it, in many needs of repairs, for 67k.

Without bothering to look up the exact gas prices of the days, a VERY conservative estimate would say that back when Bush Jr was president I could have bought at least 60,000 gallons of gas on his watch in trade for my house.

Today, I'd be lucky to get 15,000 gallons of gas for what I paid for it.





I'm not sure you can lay the blame for the house devaluation with the Obama administration, seeing as how he inherited an economy ready to blow. Not even the most conservative of commentators can lay the GFC at his feet.




Jack has shown repeatedly that he lives in a fact-free bubble, and no amount of logic or reason can penetrate that bubble.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:24 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Those fallacious budget numbers are even more skewed than you posted Mike.

They forget the fact that, unlike Bush, Obama actually includes EVERYTHING in his budget, and doesnt run two wars off the books, like our ole friends Bush and Cheney did. So thats several hundred billion per year more left out of what would be "Bush's quotient" of the deficit.

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
And I notice yet again that you dont have the balls to even discuss the comments this thread is about.




I got man parts a plenty. It's just that I don't agree w/ you on the childish, nonsensical 'war on women' b.s. the Left is tossing up, as yet another wedge issue over which to pit folk against each other.

And as this is a fully contrived and empty issue, I'm done with discussing it any further.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


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Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:28 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


And as this is a fully contrived and empty issue, I'm done with discussing it any further.



Curious, how much do you get paid to act this stupid?


It's a fine performance, I must say.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:42 AM

STORYMARK


Rappy gets bent all outta shape when Dan Savage calls a bunch of pansies pansies - but saying women shouldn't vote isn't important enough for him to speak against.

Not that he could - if someone on the FOX payroll says it - he MUST obey.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:00 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Observations: Story defines "War on Women" as the attempted changes in women's reproductive rights and privelidges. Raptor defines "War on Women" as personal attacks on certain women.

Raptor calling Chris a dork for making models is silly because this is a geek website full of people who love such things and who probably wish they were talented enough to build models like Chris does.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:19 AM

CAVETROLL


Most of this thread has nothing to do with the actual issues. It's just different people attacking other people because they don't support the same causes and/or political beliefs.

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 8:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Observations: Story defines "War on Women" as the attempted changes in women's reproductive rights and privelidges. Raptor defines "War on Women" as personal attacks on certain women.



Rappy defines it as any personal attack on Sarah Palin. He didn't mind at all when Rush personally attacked Sandra Fluke, and said he agreed with Rush when he called her a slut and a prostitute. He also never raised any objections when Glenn Beck joked about poisoning Nancy Pelosi, and he's raised no objections at all about this right-wing nutbag and friend of FauxNews decrying the idea of women being allowed to vote.


Quote:


Raptor calling Chris a dork for making models is silly because this is a geek website full of people who love such things and who probably wish they were talented enough to build models like Chris does.



Rappy's WWAAAAYYYY into dinosaurs, like most 3-year-olds, so he's really not in much of a position to call anyone anything at all. That's not any kind of judgment on Rappy, it's just pointing out that someone who's still in the dinosaur stage making fun of someone in the model stage is a bit hilarious in its incongruity.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 8:21 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Most of this thread has nothing to do with the actual issues. It's just different people attacking other people because they don't support the same causes and/or political beliefs.



If by "political beliefs" you mean beliefe in equal rights - then yes - you are correct.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:07 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Yeah, the times they are a changin'. And to see idiots like AU & Hero acting all happy-happy-love-my-world as it begins to erode in front of their eyes makes me nuts. It's the whole "We don't torture" mentality all over again, and I've had it with disconnected shitheads. If there just wasn't so damn many of them...


You've simply lost the ability to argue. Deep down you've come to accept that liberal ideas, no matter how well intentioned, don't work. You can't defend them because you don't believe in them.

So you are reduced to personal attacks. Angry, bitter, and ultimately pointless personal insults and profanity. Might as well make a sign "Intellectually bankrupt, will work for new outlook on life." Only you don't really want to work...liberals want us to work for you.

That makes perfect sense, after all I have on several occaisons told some of you how your argument could be made.

Its really not fair. Maybe you need a new Federal program. Intellectual Welfare. Everytime you want to make an argument for or against something you believe one will be provided for you.

The need for this program is pretty obvious...just ask the average Occupy Protestor (or Occupy Terrorist) what they stand for: "I'm against the corporate and banks and I don't have a job that pays me $80,000/year to work when I feel like it doing whatever the hell I want to with my degree in English or Black Studies and I hate war and love gay rights and rich people should give me money and stuff and I'd tell you more but I gotta go rape someone before looting a local Walgreens."

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:12 AM

STORYMARK


Thank you for proving his point so effectively, Hero.



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:12 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:

Raptor calling Chris a dork for making models is silly because this is a geek website full of people who love such things and who probably wish they were talented enough to build models like Chris does.


Why thanks Rio!
As a quick sidebar for Trek fans, here's what I'm doing as of this moment- a Star Trek V/VI phaser:



Close to finishing!

Okay, back to the arguing.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:33 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Most of this thread has nothing to do with the actual issues. It's just different people attacking other people because they don't support the same causes and/or political beliefs.


Ironically you've just summed up women's issues, the civil rights movement, gay marriage, the economy, illegal immigration, the Arab-Isreali conflict, the war on terror, and the Cleveland-Pittsburg football rivalry.

But if you want to talk about women's issues it comes down to a few things:

1. Reproductive rights. Abortion is legal, one side likes it, the other side does not. Both sides are wrong (says me, I argue its legal, but not really but we can't ban it...yet).

2. Equal pay. One side wants it in writing. That side does not pay its female employees equally. The other side thinks that females are generally paid equally and when not its because of their life choices (see Reproductive rights).

3. Sexual harrassment. One side says its bad regardless of proof, the other side says its bad but wants proof. (I just wish women would stop treating me like a sex object...)

4. Jobs. Female participation in the workforce has declined dramatically under President Obama to its lowest levels in decades. One side says we need to address this, the other side wants to ignore it along with all negative jobs data.

5. Gas prices. One side says they need to be higher, the other side says they need to be lower. Single mothers struggling with kids and employment see more of their limited income going into their cars at the gas pump and on grocery store shelves.

6. The Bachelor. One side would watch anything other then that show, the other side can't live without it.

7. Mom's. One side says that being a stay-at-home mom is bad, the other side says its good. (I'd make a MILF comment but people might take it the wrong way. I know a number of MILFs, some stay at home, others work...all are pretty hot so this tells me I'm a moderate on the should MILFs work issue.)

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:45 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Thank you for proving his point so effectively, Hero.


SO you agree that he is completely unable to argue his own cause.

We've been struggling with his problem for a while. He lives in constant torment knowing that he is so wrong yet unable to manifest his truth. Sometimes we make progress but other times he slips back into his addiction to intellectual surrender.

While it pains me to see him struggle I know that his deep down understanding of how wrong he is will eventually lead him to the conservative path and the peace that comes from uniting his passion, ego, and intellect in pursuit of the Right. On that day I shall call him brother.


H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:46 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Thank you for proving his point so effectively, Hero.


SO you agree that he is completely unable to argue his own cause.



Only a tool like yourself woyuld read what I said - and think I was agreeing with you.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:47 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Most of this thread has nothing to do with the actual issues. It's just different people attacking other people because they don't support the same causes and/or political beliefs.


Ironically you've just summed up women's issues, the civil rights movement, gay marriage, the economy, illegal immigration, the Arab-Isreali conflict, the war on terror, and the Cleveland-Pittsburg football rivalry.

But if you want to talk about women's issues it comes down to a few things:

1. Reproductive rights. Abortion is legal, one side likes it, the other side does not. Both sides are wrong (says me, I argue its legal, but not really but we can't ban it...yet).

2. Equal pay. One side wants it in writing. That side does not pay its female employees equally. The other side thinks that females are generally paid equally and when not its because of their life choices (see Reproductive rights).

3. Sexual harrassment. One side says its bad regardless of proof, the other side says its bad but wants proof. (I just wish women would stop treating me like a sex object...)

4. Jobs. Female participation in the workforce has declined dramatically under President Obama to its lowest levels in decades. One side says we need to address this, the other side wants to ignore it along with all negative jobs data.

5. Gas prices. One side says they need to be higher, the other side says they need to be lower. Single mothers struggling with kids and employment see more of their limited income going into their cars at the gas pump and on grocery store shelves.

6. The Bachelor. One side would watch anything other then that show, the other side can't live without it.

7. Mom's. One side says that being a stay-at-home mom is bad, the other side says its good. (I'd make a MILF comment but people might take it the wrong way. I know a number of MILFs, some stay at home, others work...all are pretty hot so this tells me I'm a moderate on the should MILFs work issue.)

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012



So many distortions and half truths. You truely are a piece of shit lawyer.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:05 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Hero is a lawyer like I'm the captain of the Good Ship Lollypop!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 12:01 PM

BYTEMITE


I believe hero's a lawyer, just, one that's not like what any of us would imagine. He's a criminal prosecution attorney, his job is to believe the defendant is guilty and then prove it with the evidence he can come up with.

Frankly he's probably overqualified.

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 12:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

So you are reduced to personal attacks. Angry, bitter, and ultimately pointless personal insults and profanity. Might as well make a sign "Intellectually bankrupt, will work for new outlook on life." Only you don't really want to work...liberals want us to work for you.




Irony: "Hero" not having a clue that he's engaging in the exact same "personal attacks" on "liberals" that he accuses them of.

Worst. Lawyer. Ever. People like "Hero" here are the reason why people say governments can't do anything right. And then he goes to work for the government, lives off welfare as a socialist feeding off the public teat, and proves to everyone that he really CAN'T do anything right!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:51 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Came back to check this out. It continued as I figured it did. A few things before I go away again:
Quote:

But all them puppeteers we love to hate were every bit as indoctrinated as their followers.
I don't believe that. It's already been obvious that those elected in 2010, talking about jobs and so forth, once elected turned right around and dealt with nothing but social issues. I think they know exactly what they're doing, and cynically play on the beliefs of OTHERS to gain power.
Quote:

when do we get to a point where we EXPECT people to THINK? To REASON? To DEMAND logic? The poor, the uneducated, ok- free pass, but dorks like Hero & AU???
I have to agree with that; those two, among others, represent the very worst of the voting public in America who swallow what they're told despite (hopefully) the ability to do otherwise. Sadly, there are obviously far too many of their ilk in America.
Quote:

Mr Little Bitty Model Builder, calling anyone a 'dork' ? Too gorram funny!
I had to laugh at that one...not because it's offensive to model-makers, which it certainly is, but because to Raptor it's apparently something that diminishes a person's value--or something--or makes model makers "dorks"? While some of the kinds of models children make are certainly simplistic, those adults make are quite gorgeous and require patience, intelligence and attention to detail, all of which are admirable in anyone. Pretty pathetic attempt at a put-down, if you ask me.

I would also be interested in cites about Maher's "recent" comments about either Palin. All I can find that is recent on Google is a rehash of his calling Palin a cunt...nothing recent.

Seems to me Jack is kinda confused, and I thank him for posting numbers to show he is. Let's see,

Bush: $455 billion, $467.63 billion.
Obama: $1299 billion, $1299 billion.

How is that "ten times"? It's less than THREE times, isn't it? I'm certainly not arguing that it's good--nobody would--but it's nonetheless true that calling it ten times is a misstatement. That's IF you look at apply the numbers straight, not taking into account the debt/deficit that continued to grow because of Bush after Obama took office, and IF you ignore the wars, as Blue pointed out. Here's a interesting fantasy: Would be neat to try and figure out what the actual debt was if you added the wars in, then figured the debt at the ACTUAL end of Bush's influence (are we there yet?) AND what it would be if the Republicans had been on board trying to work WITH Obama instead of stymie him. Wish I knew some bright economist would could do that...

As to housing prices: What Magons said. And it wasn't "ready to blow", love, it was already BLOWN! Obama's been trying to mop up ever since, despite all the concerted efforts of the Republicans to KEEP it blown! I agree with Frem that
Quote:

It's a matter of the GOP having gone full out, flat out, batshit fucking WWIII insane
Yeah, Mike nailed it; Raptor sees a "war on women" only when anyone from the LEFT disses a woman; he also probably thinks it's a "war on marriage" just as Limbaugh has told him to. Riona's right, too, in that there's a VAST difference between saying things about women and DOING things that affect their rights as citizens and people; he doesn't grasp that.

Yes, Hero proved the point perfectly, especially given his "quote" about Occupy, which must come from some conservative "other world" or something. His rant blows my mind at how indoctrinated he is. Okay, I'll bite:

1. NOBODY "likes" abortion, not that they'll ever get that. One side thinks it should be the woman's choice what to do with her body; the other side thinks government should be in charge of denying it. It may be "legal" according to federal law, but it's been made virtually unobtainable OR illegal by many methods, state by state.

2. There would have to be viable proof of the statement that one "side" doesn't pay female employees equally. I thought the decision of what to pay an employee was made by individuals; are all those individuals from one "side"? I call bullshit.

3. I won't go into sexual harassment except to say that perhaps one side gives the benefit of the doubt to people who claim it and the other side tends to think they're lying.

4. As has been clarified multiple times in multiple places by multiple people, female participation in the work force ALWAYS declines more than male participation in a recession; women get laid off more when times are bad (see #2).

5. Which "side" exactly is it that says gas prices should be higher? Some PEOPLE have said that, but they represent a minority and don't reflect the majority opinion of EITHER "side".

6. I will agree; never seen it, never will.

7. Wow. Which side exactly says that being a stay-at-home mom is bad?? That one's REALLY wild; someone made a comment and left out exactly three words: "outside the home". The person clarified that remark later, but the majority of people who heard the comment knew precisely what she meant. That's about the most insane of all the claims, and totally ignores the fact that the issue was that not everyone has the CHOICE to be a stay-at-home mom, which is a very valid issue.

Nick is right:
Quote:

Hero is a lawyer like I'm the captain of the Good Ship Lollypop
On the subject of Hero, I agree with Mike and disagree with Byte.

And in the very end, Cave nailed it and I'll let that be my last word on the subject:
Quote:

Most of this thread has nothing to do with the actual issues. It's just different people attacking other people because they don't support the same causes and/or political beliefs.




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Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:57 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Occurred to me to wonder if Raptor ever responded to my debate points about "rights" being curtailed. I went back and looked, and he didn't return until the middle of the next page, something about Maher. Then he again cracked that the war on women is something made up--I forget why--but never mentioned the actual SUBSTANCE of the very real war on women which I'd carefully laid out. That's too bad; I'd like to have debated the points regarding the ISSUE of a war on women.

I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else, knowing I should look elsewhere for intelligent conversation...



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Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Kwicko, please....

I worked for a retired house rep's marketing firm for two years. I'm the only person I know who has done their own (and many family and friends) taxes the last 10 years, even last year when it involved retirement accounts and a multi-state plethora of extra forms and a home purchase and a first time homeowner exemption to the 10% penalty of retirement withdrawals from both a traditional IRA and the earnings on a Roth IRA. I haven't had a single dime of interest owed to anyone since August of 2005. I own my own house and car free and clear. I pay my cell phone and cable company month to month. I don't have a single contract for any term for any service provided me, and I could up and sell my house with the profits my home improvements have made tomorrow and move anywhere I wanted to. (Oh, and meanwhile, I haven't actually "worked" more than 80 hours for "the man" in the last 2+ years, and I'm interviewing for an overnight stocking position at a local retailer tomorrow morning)

Unfortunately for your argument here, you're talking to the single "stupid" college drop-out in the entire country who has made it his business to know EVERYTHING there is to know about debt and deficits, as well as any other thing concerning money. I can guaranty you that I'm the only person you've ever known who was able to bank another 14 thousand dollars over two years while on unemployment and never getting a single response to applications for an interview.




Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Your numbers are wrong; I'd double-check your sources, because I think they might be *a little* biased. Somehow, they managed to completely leave the $780,000,000,000.00 TARP bailouts completely off the 2008 numbers.

How'd that happen? Did they just do like right wingers always do, and blame it on Obama?



Let's just say that I'll give you the 780,000,000,000 of TARP bailouts to add to Bush instead of Obama. I agree whole heartedly with you that he was a TERRIBLE president. Given that push on your part, we'll even erase the 158.93 billion surplus for Bush's first year (and to show what a sport I am, I'll even add an additional 300 billion dollar deficit to 2001 for this next equation.

2001 = 300 billion
2002 = 157.8 Billion
2003 = 374 Billion
2004 = 413 Billion
2005 = 319 Billion
2006 = 248 Billion
2007 = 162 Billion
2008 = 455 Billion

Plus, add in the 780 Billion for TARP

That's a total of 3,208.8 Billion deficit under Bush's Watch. (GOD I HATED BUSH!!!!)

(As a side note though, much of that TARP money has already been paid back with interest)


So, divided by 8 years, that is a deficit of just over 401 Billion a year under Bush Jr, even including the 780 billion of TARP LOANS that have largely been paid back and probably are making Obama's deficit figures look better than they really are.





So, now, we go to the OBAMA years... just the three recorded so far....

2009 1416 Billion Dollar Deficit 1459.79 Billion Deficit D D D - Obama
2010 1294 Billion Dollar Deficit 1312.37 Billion Deficit D D D - Obama
2011 1299 Billion Dollar Deficit 1299 Billion Deficit D D R - Obama

2009, I'll remove the 780 Billion from TARP that he supposedly inherited....

so....

2009 = 636 Billion
2010 = 1294 Billion
2011 = 1299 Billion

What's the average per year, after removing Kwicko's objection, you ask?????




Well.... I'd first like to note, that even removing the TARP money funds and placing them all on Bush Jr., as well as negating the payback and interest for TARP to the Obama regime, that in only 3 years, Obama's administration has spent a whopping 3,229 trillion dollars above what we can afford.

If you look back, you can see that the Vile Bush Jr. didn't even manage to overspend that much in his entire 8 years (including the additional 780 Billion in TARP funds). He settled in after 8 years at 3,208.8 Trillion.


On average, Obama has spent 1,076.3 Trillion a year more than what we can afford.

So, if you'd care to guage my HATE for our current president based off of the EXACT reason I HATED our former president purely on statistics, if you divide 1,076 Trillion by 401 Trillion, that means I HATE Obama 2.683291770573566084788029925187 times more than I hated Bush Jr.

And don't forget, that's with any allowances Kwicko demanded I give Barry.



FUCK, I wish Hilary was in office now! The Clintons knew how to do things right.....

That's what you all get when you vote a Illinois politician into the White House.


Seriously, no racism intended by this remark, but he got in and he was "Nigger Rich".

See definition #3 here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nigger+rich


And to add to that... Most of my friends and family were all "Nigger Rich" during the good times too. That's why the "idiot" who didn't go to college is the only one succeeding.

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE!!!!! STOP BUYING SHIT YOU DON'T NEED ON CREDIT!!!!!!

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:48 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Good job, Jack. I certainly understand how you feel, and share most of your feelings. For me it doesn't come down to numbers as much, tho'; I see it as Bush having run this country SO far into a ditch that I don't think anyone could possibly get it OUT without spending many times what he did just to do so. Just how I see it. I don't know how to calculate stuff like that, so I don't know how much of it is actually Obama's "spending" as opposed to leftover results from Bush, either. I guess to me it just started with Bush, it got SO much WORSE under Bush, it landed us in the Great Recession and I don't know how all of that could be "fixed" in three years.

We'll both get tarred and feathered for it here, but I agree about Hillary; I think she'd have been more savvy, had more political weight, and wouldn't have tried to compromise as much. I'm betting money she'd have gotten a LOT more done while they had House and Senate, and a 60-seat majority, as well as being more able to keep the deficit from spiralling as it has. I could be wrong, but it's the feeling I got. I didn't vote for her in the primary any more than for Obama, but looking back, I should have. They're political players at least, the Clintons, and Bill's popularity (and political might) would have been better than Obama's naïveté. JMHO

Nonetheless, I have to add that I think it would be even WORSE under McCain.



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Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:51 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
You truely are a piece of shit lawyer.


Don't mince words Story, what do you really think?

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:17 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hi Nikki,

Thanks for replying in a non-venom filled way.

I'm certainly not a "puppet" for "the other side" as others might make me out to be. As much as the current people today you "battle" against might seem aligned with my points of view, it's only because when the pendulum swings right, I tend to swing left and vice-versa....

I'm VERY glued to the money though, as it will be the ultimate determining factor in our position in the world in the near term and way beyond in the future.

The HARD truth for a newbie to finances is that Bush Jr. didn't start it....

Before Obama, he was the BIGGEST ASSHOLE-IN-CHEIF TO MAKE IT WORSE for all of us though.

According to this chart, it was FORD who initially started us with over a billion of debt...., but I bet it goes back to at least Nixon when his administration allowed "fiat" (see: fake) currency to be coined.

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-
and-by-Presidental-Term.htm


As you can see, even when Bush Jr. made it into office, the National Debt was already $5,943,438,563,436

After Bush Jr. left, it was up to a staggering $10,699,804,864,612!!!!!!!!

BUSH JR NEARLY DOUBLED THE NATIONAL DEBT IN 8 YEARS!!!!!



Fast Forward to Obama....

In only 3 years, he has turned a $10,699,804,864,612 National Debt into an even more incomprehisinble $15,125,898,976,397 worth of debt. Nearly a 50% increase on this monsterous debt in only 3 years!!!! that's not with any data about this year yet!!!!!

Even give or take the 780billion of TARP that Kwicko forced me to account for before and it almost seems like a drop in the bucket.

All I'm saying is that inflation supposedly only doubles the price on goods for us every twenty years, statistically speaking.

For sure, Bush Jr's administration fucked us all royally, but the pace has been picked up nearly 3 times as much under the Obama admin....

This train to oblivion is going so fast now that even if by a miracle Ron Paul got voted in, we'd never be able to recover....

I'll I'm saying is if you have kids, do your best to make sure they learn Chinese and Spanish words while they're still young and pliable. An English-Chinese-Spanish speaking american 20 year old in 2025 will be the only one not mopping up spooge at a nudey bar.

Good luck to you and yours.....

We'll all need it

Warmest Regards,
~6



EDITED TO ADD:

I didn't want to interrupt the post by posting this mid-way, but I think it speaks volumes about government spending during the Bush Jr. Administration....



You and me, Nikki, we're young... our first instinct is to fight out against those who immediatly oppose our values and beliefs.

There is a LONG line of people in history who have set all of this up.

In the end, after a little bit of deep digging, you may even come to realize that both "sides" we seem to protect in the RWED are nothing more than 2 sides of a coin that one entity runs....



As for me....

3rd party for life....

Temporarily, I'm stuck voting for the lesser of blah blah blah...

Things are going to change soon though.

Times are getting tough.

It won't take Mel Gibson with a hatchet, in my belief, but people are going to start rebelling well before that point.

In the end, I think we probably would agree about most things if "politics" weren't in the way. If the "bad shit" ever really comes down, I hope to count on you as an ally and not a foe.



Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Good job, Jack. I certainly understand how you feel, and share most of your feelings. For me it doesn't come down to numbers as much, tho'; I see it as Bush having run this country SO far into a ditch that I don't think anyone could possibly get it OUT without spending many times what he did just to do so. Just how I see it. I don't know how to calculate stuff like that, so I don't know how much of it is actually Obama's "spending" as opposed to leftover results from Bush, either. I guess to me it just started with Bush, it got SO much WORSE under Bush, it landed us in the Great Recession and I don't know how all of that could be "fixed" in three years.

We'll both get tarred and feathered for it here, but I agree about Hillary; I think she'd have been more savvy, had more political weight, and wouldn't have tried to compromise as much. I'm betting money she'd have gotten a LOT more done while they had House and Senate, and a 60-seat majority, as well as being more able to keep the deficit from spiralling as it has. I could be wrong, but it's the feeling I got. I didn't vote for her in the primary any more than for Obama, but looking back, I should have. They're political players at least, the Clintons, and Bill's popularity (and political might) would have been better than Obama's naïveté. JMHO

Nonetheless, I have to add that I think it would be even WORSE under McCain.




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Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:34 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Jack, I guess it comes down to individual impressions and one's priorities. I know the national debt started way before Bush, it's just that he made it SO bad that I think in terms of him as having "started it" (I guess meaning started the real horror of it increasing so MUCH...or something!).

I don't have kids, thank gawd. I decided at 17 that I never would--and that I would never marry. I only married to put my husband on my dental plan at work, or I never would have. He has two kids, luckily they're middle aged now, tho' one of them has a teenaged daughter, and I worry for her. Not just over this, believe me...I happen to think ecology will harm her far worse than our debt!

As to "it will be the ultimate determining factor in our position in the world in the near term and way beyond in the future" however, I have to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, it will be EDUCATION, which is where we've fallen way, way behind and which will keep us from being competitive. Education costs money, definitely, but it also MAKES money, and since we're in the process of doing everything possible to destroy education in America...from making it a private enterprise to the concept that wanting a college education makes one a "snob" (unbelievable!), I see it getting worse LONG before it starts getting better...by which time, I don't think we'll ever catch up.

I'm not as glued to the money as you are; for me it's a MUCH wider picture. So much bad is going on, from government accountability/representation to environment to social issues/freedom/rights to military to of course education to economic divide to, to, to...there are too many "to"s to enumerate. I certainly understand how you feel, tho', believe me!

As to my response, I TRY to respond in the same manner as the person to whom I'm responding to...unfortunately past interactions sometimes get in the way, but I DO try! I don't think I've ever lumped you in with what I consider our irrational righties, at least I don't remember doing so; I DO tend to see you as pissed off at both sides from time to time, not glued to either ideology.



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Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Jack, you're still making the same simple-headed math error the Bush boys tried to sell us: You're taking Bush's numbers as if they were fact, and I don't believe you've got your sources right. It was widely reported that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were adding hundreds of billions to the deficit and the national debt, and that it was being done "off the books" via emergency measures pushed through Congress, and I don't see any of that spending reflected in the numbers you're choosing to represent as real.

Where are the wars?

Where is the national debt?

Bush more than doubled our debt in 8 years, from under 6 trillion to nearly 12. Obama has added nowhere near that.


I've been doing my own taxes for more than 30 years. So fucking what? You're still doing that thing where you think you can impress me with your "achievements"; I'm talking about your FACTS. You don't have your facts straight, and that's the simple truth.

Your entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:53 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Edited to respond to your edit: ;o)

I won't watch the video. I think I know what it's about; that's enough for me.

Darling, I'm not YOUNG by any stretch of the imagination! I'm 63...there ain't no way I can consider that "young". Not only that, but I wouldn't choose to BE young; I think I've lived in some of the best times this country has seen, and I think the empire is dying. I wouldn't be young enough to see it's complete destruction even in exchange for a young bod and brain! Gawd willing, I won't be around to see the worst of it.

But my instincts aren't to "fight" against those who oppose my beliefs and values; it's usually to attempt to debate them. Doing so often educates me and causes my opinions to evolve, other times it educates me and what I learn just convinces me further. What I do here isn't fighting. Those I would fight are those whose ACTIONS attempt to impose their will on me.

Gawd, of course there's a long line of people, etc., there always IS in any empire. And of course I recognize that our two-party system has been prostituted beyond belief and that neither party is worth a shit. I'm an independent officially...I'm a liberal, obviously, but I've voted for the lesser of two evils all my life, with the possible exception of Clinton. That definitely includes voting for Obama, about whom I had very serious doubts and for whom I didn't vote in the primary. I still think McCain would have been FAR worse!

And yes, I FULLY agree that we have a Sword of Damoclese hanging over our head and that the population might well rise up before much longer. It's already happening in places like Greece--you can only push people so far, and widening class divide is BEGGING for revolution. It's already happening among the Occupy movement, tho' mostly that's been a cover for those who were already anarchists. I'm not blind to any of that, trust me!

As to what we'd agree or disagree on beyond what's discussed in RWED, we'd have to investigate that further; I'm not that familar with you, as you're not here all the time and my memory sucks unless I have frequent contact with someone! I'm nobody's "foe", certainly not on the internet, and if/when a revolution comes, I'd have to think long and hard about where I stand.

Thinking about it for about two minutes now, I still don't know. I know I'd want to stand and fight for what's I believe is right, and if it were just me, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute. Here's where you might not understand; I'd be afraid for my dogs if I endangered my life. My husband, too, but given he's 73, I don't know if he would/will be around, and I wouldn't want him caring for my pups. They're my responsibility, like children, yes, laugh if you will, and I'd fear for what would happen to them without me around, like children.

I can absolutely guarantee, tho', that if it weren't for Jim and the huskies, I'd be on the front lines. I am now, in my own small way. Fighting for, it sounds like a lot of the same things as you. Beyond that I can't say. Who we are on the internet can bear no resemblance to who we are IRL. I try to be honest about who and what I am; I get the feeling you do too, but of course we can't know...



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Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey Nikki,

By all means... SERIOUSLY... take this time to bash Bush Jr.

He, and his administrations were the biggest ASSHOLES to "shepherd" our great nation for 8 years....

Until now....

I'm also sorry for your debt. Somehow my dad managed to do right by my step-bro and half-bro and they got free rides to prestigious colleges. I'm sure if I was still "in the cards" at that point in my life I'd be making 100k a year now, but my mom sought to make sure my dad had to pay thousands in legal fees more than it cost to pay for meager community college payments..... and anyway, what kid ever excells when his dad is thrust from his life, legally, and his mom spends top dollar on everything because she never had to save or cut coupons because of all of that child support raining down over her GREAT job as a project manager for "Ma Bell"????

Things being the way they are, I'm grateful that my bros will graduate without any debt and that I never made the mistake of incurring any for "higher" education myself.


EDUCATION, is the factor for most of us....

Not "Street Smart" entrapanuers (IE: con men) like me, but for people who can't make their own way, sure....

I just would like to add that my job in Wisconson that was netting me over 55k a year gross 2 years ago was sent to an Indian half a world away glad to do it for 5k a year....

Unless your step kids are going to REALLY get DEEP in IT and make it their BITCH.... they'll probably be working along side me at Wal-Mart stocking shelves overnight unless they're really lucky.



REALLY... "Education", at least how it's done in America, nets FAR less than it costs in the long run.

Sure, you have your successful lawyers and doctors and those REALLY driven to succeed....

But then you also have the other 80% dildos who get a job offer before me because their parents or loans paid for them to do keg-stands 6 out of 7 nights of the week and skate with a Cplus average......





If you want to talk "Evolution", I'm game....

I've totally evolved....

The reason I could sweet talk my way into any positon offered in a job interview when I was 20 was because I had a High School Wrestler's build and as hot as my six pack was then I weighed 30 lbs less than the interviewer and was 20 years their junior.

At 32, for most, it would be harder, but I just wink and flash a smile and tell them that this will be my second job to keep the nest-egg from running out. I know for a fact that I'm the ONLY 32 year old that they've interviewed who owns their own house and can prove it. I know for a FACT this job is mine tomorrow if I feel it pays enough to make it worth while.

That reminds me.... I got a 1,150 tax bill due on the 25th of this month....

Better get to work on that so I don't dip anymore into savings for it.



Seriously Nikki....

the "good life"

The minimalist life is the one for me. I want for nothing and I'm beholden to no one.

That's what used to make being an American Great!



Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Jack, I guess it comes down to individual impressions and one's priorities. I know the national debt started way before Bush, it's just that he made it SO bad that I think in terms of him as having "started it" (I guess meaning started the real horror of it increasing so MUCH...or something!).

I don't have kids, thank gawd. I decided at 17 that I never would--and that I would never marry. I only married to put my husband on my dental plan at work, or I never would have. He has two kids, luckily they're middle aged now, tho' one of them has a teenaged daughter, and I worry for her. Not just over this, believe me...I happen to think ecology will harm her far worse than our debt!

As to "it will be the ultimate determining factor in our position in the world in the near term and way beyond in the future" however, I have to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, it will be EDUCATION, which is where we've fallen way, way behind and which will keep us from being competitive. Education costs money, definitely, but it also MAKES money, and since we're in the process of doing everything possible to destroy education in America...from making it a private enterprise to the concept that wanting a college education makes one a "snob" (unbelievable!), I see it getting worse LONG before it starts getting better...by which time, I don't think swe'll ever catch up.

I'm not as glued to the money as you are; for me it's a MUCH wider picture. So much bad is going on, from government accountability/representation to environment to social issues/freedom/rights to military to of course education to economic divide to, to, to...there are too many "to"s to enumerate. I certainly understand how you feel, tho', believe me!

As to my response, I TRY to respond in the same manner as the person to whom I'm responding to...unfortunately past interactions sometimes get in the way, but I DO try! I don't think I've ever lumped you in with what I consider our irrational righties, at least I don't remember doing so; I DO tend to see you as pissed off at both sides from time to time, not glued to either ideology.




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Thursday, May 10, 2012 5:13 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Seriously Kwicko...

I don't know where to start...

I don't want to fight you like some of the hard core "R"'s here do....

But you fight me constantly like a hard core "D"

What was not conclusive about what I posted before????

You mention the EVIL debt that W thrust upon us, but you seem to negate the exponential debt thrust upon us by his successor.

I also posted "We didn't start the fire" which could be applied to any president....

Blaming Bush Jr. for spending his obscene rates in triplicate is not a VALID excuse for Obama, especially since things have done nothing but continually decline for all of us under his Shepherding....

The main jist of my last post to you is that Obama, even given the allowences you called for, raised the national deficit by 150% in only 3 years!

Don't bother pointing out to me that Bush Jr. doubled it in 8 years. I have a MILLION posts in the archives of the RWED documenting that and arguing with people like Hero and Auraptor about the justifications of that spending. Seriously... check it out....

Bush Jr = BAD

OBAMA = THE END OF AMERICA

Seriously man... I owe nobody a damn thing, but the "debt clock" is ever increasing over each and every one of us.

Do a Google search on how much any 18+ American "owes" according to the national debt and tell me that you'd be happy to pay that debt when China comes to collect. ESPECIALLY above and beyond any college, house, car, credit card debt you might already be shouldering like Atlas.



I'm really on your side man...... even if you don't see it now.....


Regards,
~6

Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Jack, you're still making the same simple-headed math error the Bush boys tried to sell us: You're taking Bush's numbers as if they were fact, and I don't believe you've got your sources right. It was widely reported that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were adding hundreds of billions to the deficit and the national debt, and that it was being done "off the books" via emergency measures pushed through Congress, and I don't see any of that spending reflected in the numbers you're choosing to represent as real.

Where are the wars?

Where is the national debt?

Bush more than doubled our debt in 8 years, from under 6 trillion to nearly 12. Obama has added nowhere near that.


I've been doing my own taxes for more than 30 years. So fucking what? You're still doing that thing where you think you can impress me with your "achievements"; I'm talking about your FACTS. You don't have your facts straight, and that's the simple truth.

Your entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions


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Friday, May 11, 2012 10:01 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Yes, Hero proved the point perfectly, especially given his "quote" about Occupy, which must come from some conservative "other world" or something.


Its an amalgam (something the Obama folks like) of things I've heard Occupy folks say. That guy on Hannity last week was among the worst, but if you listen to these folks and the jazz handers chanting in unison you'll hear various forms of what I quoted.
Quote:


1. NOBODY "likes" abortion, not that they'll ever get that. One side thinks it should be the woman's choice what to do with her body; the other side thinks government should be in charge of denying it. It may be "legal" according to federal law, but it's been made virtually unobtainable OR illegal by many methods, state by state.


I disagree. There are people on the left who love abortion, but I was generalizing. Your statement is correct, some see it as a woman's choice, others see it as the govt's duty to protect a child. It is hardly unobtainable or illegal in ANY state.
Quote:


2. There would have to be viable proof of the statement that one "side" doesn't pay female employees equally. I thought the decision of what to pay an employee was made by individuals; are all those individuals from one "side"? I call bullshit.


The White House pays its female employees 18% less on average then they pay their male employees. That is higher then the national average. "Female employees earn a median salary of $60,000, roughly 18 percent less than men, whose median salary is $71,000." Washington Times, April 30, 2012. Its worse because Obama has more women earing higher salaries at the top of the ladder...in other words unless you are a top staffer (one of the seven women holding the top fourteen positions) you are making dramatically less then the men.
Quote:


3. I won't go into sexual harassment except to say that perhaps one side gives the benefit of the doubt to people who claim it and the other side tends to think they're lying.


Innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent? Take your pick.

Quote:


4. As has been clarified multiple times in multiple places by multiple people, female participation in the work force ALWAYS declines more than male participation in a recession; women get laid off more when times are bad (see #2).


True. But Obama was supposed to fix all that. In fact he said that the unemployment rate would not top 8% and that if he didn't get a handle on it he should not get a second term. Its approaching 8% from being well above...but that's not because of job creation, its because people are not even looking anymore (and are not counted under current labor staticis guidelines). In the last two months 324,000 women have simply left the work force. According to USA today only 66.8% of men had jobs, the lowest in history. In 2010 56% of women had jobs down from 75% in 2000 and 73% in 2008 (from Abc news).
Quote:


5. Which "side" exactly is it that says gas prices should be higher? Some PEOPLE have said that, but they represent a minority and don't reflect the majority opinion of EITHER "side".


Democratic leaders, liberal celebrities, and enviromental special interest groups want higher gas prices. One example is the currect President and his energy secretary. I would argue the average Democratic voter wants lower prices.
Quote:


6. I will agree; never seen it, never will.


Common ground. Lets build a bridge.
Quote:


7. Wow. Which side exactly says that being a stay-at-home mom is bad??


Your thinking "it was just that one lady". I'm thinking "hmmm...I've heard this before". NOW I wonder where I've heard those kind of comments from...NOW if only I could remember.

Edited to add: BTW I appreciate the effort. I say something, you say something, next thing you know we're getting drunk and saving each other's souls...American style.

H


Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Friday, May 11, 2012 10:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

Your thinking "it was just that one lady". I'm thinking "hmmm...I've heard this before". NOW I wonder where I've heard those kind of comments from...NOW if only I could remember.




It was you. You said this:

Quote:

In 2010 56% of women had jobs down from 75% in 2000 and 73% in 2008 (from Abc news).


Clearly that means that under Obama, stay-at-home moms increased nearly 20% from 2008, something which you're also clearly against.

Why does the right hate stay-at-home moms?

Also, your claims about Democrats paying women less than Republicans is incorrect. You say the pay disparity in the White House is 18%. Nationally it's 23%. That means Obama's White House is much closer to equality than the national average.

Again, you use this as a reason to vote against him, because he's trying to move this country towards equal human rights for all. Why do you hate human and civil rights?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Friday, May 11, 2012 10:53 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Clearly that means that under Obama, stay-at-home moms increased nearly 20% from 2008, something which you're also clearly against.

Why does the right hate stay-at-home moms?


The same article notes that it is not their choice...why does the left oppose a woman's right to choose?

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Friday, May 11, 2012 10:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Six posted:


Seriously Kwicko...

I don't know where to start...

I don't want to fight you like some of the hard core "R"'s here do....

But you fight me constantly like a hard core "D"

What was not conclusive about what I posted before????

You mention the EVIL debt that W thrust upon us, but you seem to negate the exponential debt thrust upon us by his successor.




I'm trying to get you to clarify your facts, and use actual numbers, instead of ones you pull straight out of your ass. If you want to have a REAL conversation about this subject, I tend to insist that you use REAL facts and figures.

Maybe you don't know math very well. Maybe you don't understand it. But you're using terms like "exponential" when what you really mean is "incremental". An increase from 12 trillion to 14 trillion isn't "exponential", by definition; it's incremental. It's not "ten times", nor "1000%". It just isn't. Bush more than doubled our national debt. Reagan did the same. Obama hasn't even come close. Oddly, there's only one of them that you feel comfortable calling "nigger rich", though. It says more about you than you might want us to know, Jack, and none of it good.

If you want to argue that spending is bad, that's an argument you can have. But you're arguing like an idiot Republican, by seemingly trying to claim that 100% of the national debt was put in place by Obama, and nobody else had a single thing to do with it. You insist of overinflating Obama's spending and hyper-exaggerating his role in creating our debt levels. Sorry, but I'm going to call you on it when you use false facts and disinformation to bolster an already weak case.

You'll happily vote for Romney and his plans to out-tax-cut Bush, and you can't even see that you simply cannot cut taxes and balance your budget.

If you'd like to argue more, please educate yourself on such matters beforehand. I'd recommend talking to Signy, because she has a handle on such things, and she's no fan of Obama, so she's not going to blow smoke up your ass.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Friday, May 11, 2012 11:01 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Clearly that means that under Obama, stay-at-home moms increased nearly 20% from 2008, something which you're also clearly against.

Why does the right hate stay-at-home moms?


The same article notes that it is not their choice...why does the left oppose a woman's right to choose?

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012



Oh, fuck off, you disengenuous pice of shit.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, May 11, 2012 11:04 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

OBAMA = THE END OF AMERICA




Jesus, kinda hard to take anyone who uses this level of over-the-top hyperbole, all that seriously.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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