REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Olmert: Right-wing U.S. cash derailed Israeli peace plan

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, May 7, 2012 12:43
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Saturday, May 5, 2012 1:06 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Can someone (capble of thinking clearly, that is) help me understand how the right wing benefits from not having an Israeli/Palestinian peace? I don't get it.
Quote:

Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said millions of dollars from the "extreme right wing" in the United States helped oust him from government and derailed a peace plan with the Palestinians.

In an exclusive interview aired Friday with CNN's Christiane Amanpour, Olmert said his attempts to make peace had been "a killer" for him as prime minister.

In 2008, Olmert sought a "full comprehensive peace between us and the Palestinians" -- a two-state solution based on the 1967 borders. But the plan was never realized and Olmert was forced from office accused of corruption, which he denies.

"It was a killer for me, not only because of the opposition in Israel. I think that, by the way, in Israel, the majority of the Israelis would have supported my plan, had it come for elections," Olmert said.

"But I had to fight against superior powers, including millions and millions of dollars that were transferred from this country (the United States) by figures which were from the extreme right wing that were aimed to topple me as prime minister of Israel. There is no question about it."

Pressed to name names, Olmert replied: "Next time."

Asked if current Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would be willing to propose such a plan, given the same political risks, Olmert said it was the responsibility of a leader to put his country first.

"That's why you are prime minister," said Olmert. "That's why you take the responsibility of leadership. To do things which are right for the nation that you want to lead."

But Olmert acknowledged that such leadership comes at a price. "I paid personally, dearly. But there was no option for me but to do what I did. And I know for sure, and I know the names, of the people that spent millions of dollars in order to stop me -- from the United States."

He was then asked if there is still time for a two-state solution. "There is time," said Olmert, "but time is running out."More at http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/05/world/meast/israel-olmert-us/index.html?
hpt=hp_t3


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Saturday, May 5, 2012 2:36 PM

FREMDFIRMA



I no longer recognize them as a country - given their conduct since the sixties I see them as a more a political plague of robber barons who break every promise, have comitted every war crime imagineable and then some, and have no more legitimacy than a pack of common murderers and even less credibility.

Is that a harsh assessment ?
Well, you tell me - I do not assign that value to their people, or to their religion, but their Government I no longer recognize as anything more than a pack of foaming rabid psychotics who are a danger to anyone who isn't them, and our own politicians constantly kowtowing to them, pledging loyalties, and all but fellating them is downright Treason, as far as I am concerned in light of their conduct, up to and including outright espionage and sabotage against us.
Were a declaration of war drawn up against them by our Congress, I would support it.

-Frem

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Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That's a bit more harsh than I would put it, but essentially the same. Our addiction to Israel has bothered me for a long time...I wouldn't support ANY wars (given, well, you know, the last few decades!), but I'd love to see us cut off aid--especially military--and stop licking their boots. Appears there was at least ONE man who wanted to make things a bit better. Too bad about him.



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Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


On that subject, I just stumbled across this, which in my opinion is right on:
Quote:


The argument against West Bank settlements is not merely a demographic one–that non-voting Arabs will overwhelm Israel’s democracy over time. Indeed, that’s not as important as several other arguments:
1. The settlements are illegal. They are a unilateral incursion on Palestinian lands. Yes, world opinion isn’t exactly a fair yardstick when gauging Israel’s actions–the world was opposed to Israel’s justified military reaction to the rockets hammering the homeland from Gaza in 2008–but that doesn’t mean the world is always wrong. In this case, Israel’s sad embrace of illegality is an international embarrassment, and makes a mockery of the Jewish traditions of reasoned justice and fairness. It drives away countries that might otherwise side with Israel against Islamic extremism.

2. The settlements are immoral. Drive from Ramallah north to Nablus on the West Bank through the gorgeous Judean hills–there are Israeli settlements on practically every hilltop. These represent a daily reminder of Israeli pilferage, a thumb in the eye–and in the case of Ariel, a massive settlement deep in Palestinian territory, a fist in the eye–of every Palestinian. For most Palestinians, they are the moral equivalent of a permanent terrorist attack, a violent appropriation of the land. The sordid treatment of Palestinians by Israelis–randomly by settlers, and officially at checkpoints (which, to be sure, are far less plentiful now)–are a constant, brutal provocation. These settlements represent a deep moral insensitivity on the part of Israel to the basic rights of those who live on these lands.

3. The settlements have brutalized Israel. Beinart–who is more religious than I am, and has stronger family ties to Israel–laments this brutalization in quite moving fashion in his book. I disagree with some of the more extreme aspects of Peter’s position. I’m opposed to any boycott of Israeli products, even those produced by the settlers. But the idea that Israel can have a long-term future without making peace with its neighbors is a fantasy. Netanyahu’s ill-concealed belief that he can get away with Palestinian Bantustans will work no better on the West Bank than it did in South Africa.

I hold no brief for the Palestinians. They have been extraordinarily stupid, and corrupt, and infuriating in their attempts to deal with this situation over the past 40 years (corrupt, at least, until Salam Fayyad’s excellent governance reformed the West Bank). But that does not make Israel faultless in this vexing matter, especially during those years when the Likud party was in charge. The neoconservatives who would defend Israel’s virginity are making fools of themselves. There is no plausible argument, other than Israeli imperialism, in favor of these settlements. {My opinion exactly.} http://swampland.time.com/2012/05/05/neoconned/]



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Sunday, May 6, 2012 1:54 PM

KPO

"Love is natural and real. But not for you my love. Not tonight my love..."


Quite a serious allegation he's making, I'd like to see him substantiate it if he can.

Interesting to hear this (from the rest of the article):

Quote:

He admits that Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, never said yes to his 2008 proposal, but also insists that he never said no.


I'd always had the impression that the Palestinians had rejected the peace proposal out of hand. Still, I think they made a mistake not enthusiastically and publicly embracing those details of the plan (at least) that they could accept.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, May 7, 2012 3:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I fully agree; maybe it would have helped, maybe not, but it would have shown the world something.



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Monday, May 7, 2012 7:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just as an aside- Frem, I had a link somewhere of video made by peace activists of Israeli soldiers shooting at Palestinian farmers at random who were doing nothing more than harvesting greens from their field. It's nothing more or less than shooting at fish in a barrel. I'll see if I can find it. I think people do not have a gorram clue as to what Israel is all about and how it maintains "the biggest open-air prison in history".

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Monday, May 7, 2012 8:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I think people do not have a gorram clue as to what Israel is all about and how it maintains "the biggest open-air prison in history".
Bang on. And those that DO, are in favor of it, partly because so many others who would hopefully raise their voices don't know. Somewhere along the line, I'm praying our "love affair" with Israel at least LESSENS, I doubt it will ever go away.



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Monday, May 7, 2012 12:43 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Just as an aside- Frem, I had a link somewhere of video made by peace activists of Israeli soldiers shooting at Palestinian farmers at random who were doing nothing more than harvesting greens from their field. It's nothing more or less than shooting at fish in a barrel. I'll see if I can find it. I think people do not have a gorram clue as to what Israel is all about and how it maintains "the biggest open-air prison in history".


Oh believe me - I know.

What pisses ME off about the "settlements" is how the bastards roll in and start slaughtering people, burning fields, poisoning wells, and when the inevitable backlash comes at em they start screaming for help from the IDF, and the IDF gleefully obliges under the guise of "protecting Israeli citizens".
That's like robbing a bank and calling the National Guard to protect you from the cops!

It also showcases the truth that no matter words on paper, this is an out and out genocide, I mean once the so-called "settlers" have taken all the land where the hell are the Palestinians gonna GO?
I'm sure the Likudniks have some kind of "Final Solution" about that too - doubly ironic in that they've turned an entire sovereign country into their own variation on the Warsaw Ghettos and Concentration Camps of World War II...
What rooks me even more is how the cycle becomes a chain - ain't too hard for me to look down the road eighty some years and more, and envision the Palestinians in their fear and paranoia after having this done to them, doin it to someone ELSE, and so on and so forth.

Me, I'd not at ALL be opposed to creeping back in the dead of night, massacring those "settlers" before they can call in the IDF and dumping the bodies next to that goddamn wall.

There's also that Israel never EVER honors ANY agreement they make, it's as bad as a junkie friend borrowing money from you and promising to pay you back, only he never does, so eventually you cut him off - but we just let them slide over and over on those broken agreements while they laugh up their sleeve and American politicans trample over each other to lick their fucking boots, and shovel them more "Foreign Aid" which gets laundered into bribes and espionage to fuck with our political system and bend it to their will.

I mean, I have repeatedly posted a huge laundry list of stuff they did where they got caught and/or admitted it, Urban Moving Systems, Comverse Infosystems, AmDocs, AIPAC, the USS Liberty incident, the Hotel David fiasco, those so-called "Art Students", the purchase and exploitation of ZoneAlarm, and lets not even discuss the dancing film crew or that Odigo message...
Not to mention two I hadn't brought up before, like them being a primary nexus and distribution node of the smuggling of both Human Organs and the drug Ecstacy, the latter I suspect being a Mossad takeoff of how the CIA uses cocaine trafficking to beef up their own budget.

Oh yes, and did I mention it's illegal to suggest or participate in a boycott of their goods ?
http://www.bis.doc.gov/complianceandenforcement/antiboycottcompliance.
htm


I generally don't bother going into it cause most folks are so deliberately ignorant about it that you could pound the evidence up their ass with a sledgehammer and they'd hardly notice, but I am not one bit unaware of that so-called countrys conduct - which is WHY I no longer reconize their legitimacy as a country and have utterly no objection to declaring war on them - their so-called country started as an act of terrorism (See Also: Irgun) and hasn't changed one goddamn bit in all these years.

-Frem

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