REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Boycott Gas on May 19th

POSTED BY: DUCESTECUM
UPDATED: Friday, May 21, 2004 17:40
SHORT URL:
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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:08 AM

DUCESTECUM


Subject: Don't buy gas on May 19th

IT HAS BEEN CALCULATED THAT IF EVERYONE IN THE UNITED STATES DID NOT PURCHASE A DROP OF GASOLINE FOR ONE DAY AND ALL AT THE SAME TIME, THE OIL COMPANIES WOULD CHOKE ON THEIR STOCKPILES.

AT THE SAME TIME IT WOULD HIT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY WITH A NET LOSS OF OVER 4.6 BILLION DOLLARS WHICH AFFECTS THE BOTTOM LINES OF THE OIL COMPANIES.

THEREFORE MAY 19TH HAS BEEN FORMALLY DECLARED "STICK IT UP THEIR BEHIND DAY AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION SHOULD NOT BUY A SINGLE DROP OF GASOLINE THAT DAY.

THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE IS IF YOU FORWARD THIS E-MAIL TO AS MANY
PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN TO GET THE WORD OUT.

WAITING ON THIS ADMIINSTRATION TO STEP IN AND CONTROL THE PRICES IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REDUCTION AND CONTROL IN PRICES THAT THE ARAB NATIONS PROMISED TWO WEEKS AGO?

REMEMBER ONE THING, NOT ONLY IS THE PRICE OF GASOLINE GOING UP BUT AT THE SAME TIME AIRLINES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES, TRUCKING COMPANIES ARE FORCED TO RAISE THEIR PRICES WHICH EFFECTS PRICES ON EVERYTHING THAT IS SHIPPED.

THINGS LIKE FOOD, CLOTHING, BUILDING MATERIALS, MEDICAL SUPPLIES ETC. WHO PAYS IN THE END? WE DO!

WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF THEY DON'T GET THE MESSAGE AFTER ONE DAY, WE WILL DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.

SO DO YOUR PART AND SPREAD THE WORD. FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO EVERYONE
YOU KNOW. MARK YOUR CALENDARS AND MAKE MAY 19TH A DAY THAT THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES SAY "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH"





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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:22 AM

BADGERSHAT


This is untrue.

If everyone in the country boycotts gas for a day, the oil producers are TOTALLY unaffected.

This is a thing that makes its may around the net every year.

The ONLY thing that will happen is, you'll hurt gas station owners financially.

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:25 AM

SEVENPERCENT


This kind of thing doesnt work- Check www.snopes.com , it's a kind of chain-letter hoax- Besides, common sense tells you this isnt so, because stockpiles are just that, stockpiles- What you dont sell today, you will sell tomorrow or to a different buyer- People can only go without gas for so long- That's why Big Oil has all of us in a stranglehold to begin with- It's not like we dont need gas, they know we need it it and we know it, which is why this would never work-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Friday, May 14, 2004 4:17 AM

WHOODAHN


If you really think that Big Oil is screwing the public and getting rich, then buy stock. Sell your home, sell your car, sell the wife and kids and buy as much stock as you can. If you really believe the oil companies are making as much profit as you say they are, put your money where your mouth is and become a rich person.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 4:26 AM

GHOULMAN


Gotta say, Badgershat is correct.

A boycott or any message sent to the Oil Gods is a waste of time and effort. We in the west are committed to our oil sucking ... until it's all used up.

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Friday, May 14, 2004 5:54 AM

CCT



Ok, you really want to make a difference? Any difference at all? (besides which day you fill your car on?

USE LESS GAS. Three words, about as simple as it gets. So simple that explaining how this works is a waste of typing :)

I'm curious, though- everybody seems to be more concerned with the cost of gas, and all the problems/issues associated with petroleum usage are secondary. Personally, I'd PREFER that gas be $4-$5 / gallon. Am I nuts? Here's why-

Gas really does cost that much. If you consider environmental costs, military costs, the assorted other costs that are associated with the consumption of petroleum fuels, it costs more than you expect to burn a gallon of gas. BUT cheap gas is popular! So who's paying for this? You are, as part of your tax burden- buying the price of gas down as part of what your taxes do.

This it truly broken- politicians have essentially bought our vote ('cause we love cheap gas) with our own money! The joke's on us :( There is no prize to be won for being efficient- since you're paying for the gas anyway in your taxes burning less with a super efficient car doesn't really get you much. Contrarily, driving a Hummer around doesn't really cost you that much either, since the costs aren't really in the gas you buy.

If things were re-structured so that money I normally pay in taxes (that is associated with petroleum usage) were added on at the pump instead of on my 1040, I think that would work. For the "average" person, they'd see themselves paying more at the pump, and correspondingly less in their taxes- no net change of cost. THEN, with gas actually costing what it should, the Hummer driver takes the hit in the wallet that he should, and the guy riding his bike to work actually has significantly more money in his pocket than before!

Is there any way "Joe Taxpayer" will buy into this scheme? Nope, the average Joe can't see past the price on the gas pump. So......

Make me world dictator and things will change! :)

CCT

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Friday, May 14, 2004 10:02 AM

JOHNCLARK


Figured I'd chuck this in

With the current rate of exchange, I reckon we pay around 7-8 Dollars a gallon here in the UK


---------------------------------------------
Experience has taught me that interest begets expectation, and expectation begets disappointment, so the key to avoiding disappointment is to avoid interest. A=B=C=A, or whatever

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Friday, May 14, 2004 10:13 AM

GHOULMAN


^^^ Blimey!

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Friday, May 14, 2004 10:27 AM

JOHNCLARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ Blimey!



Well, part of it is the exchange rate, but our American colleagues do usually seem kinda surprised

---------------------------------------------
Experience has taught me that interest begets expectation, and expectation begets disappointment, so the key to avoiding disappointment is to avoid interest. A=B=C=A, or whatever

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Friday, May 14, 2004 1:46 PM

WHOODAHN


We should be glad that cars don't run on milk, beer or sparkling water.

Here's some interesting math, Crude is up to $40 a barrel, a barrel is 42 gallons. So oil refiners are paying nearly a $1 a gallon for RAW materials. Spend a Billion dollars to buy yourself a refinery, spend millions every day for natural gas and electricity to run it. Spend millions a year in upgrades and environmental compliance. Sell your gas at wholesale costs to vendor that has to add his profit and another chunk for taxes and the final price is over $2 a gallon. The refiners get blamed for the high price of gas. Go figure.

You are right, the simple answer is that we use more gas that we can make. Use less and the price will go down.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 1:56 PM

WHOODAHN


Quote:

Originally posted by SevenPercent:
This kind of thing doesnt work- Check www.snopes.com , it's a kind of chain-letter hoax- Besides, common sense tells you this isnt so, because stockpiles are just that, stockpiles- What you dont sell today, you will sell tomorrow or to a different buyer- People can only go without gas for so long- That's why Big Oil has all of us in a stranglehold to begin with- It's not like we dont need gas, they know we need it it and we know it, which is why this would never work-



Just a quick comment,

The oil companies don't own the car companies. The oil companies didn't create the demand for gas, they are trying to fill the demand for gas. If people really want to make a difference, stop buying big cars and drive less. Force the auto makers to make smaller cars that get better mileage.

Most oil refineries will blend and sell gasoline as quick as possible, sometimes the same day. They don't stock finished gas blends because its unpaid inventory.

Thump! That's me getting off my soapbox now

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 2:17 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Someone:

Just a quick comment,

The oil companies don't own the car companies. The oil companies didn't create the demand for gas, they are trying to fill the demand for gas. If people really want to make a difference, stop buying big cars and drive less. Force the auto makers to make smaller cars that get better mileage.

Most oil refineries will blend and sell gasoline as quick as possible, sometimes the same day. They don't stock finished gas blends because its unpaid inventory.

Thump! That's me getting off my soapbox now

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"




Gasoline may not be stockpiled, but the oil that makes the gasoline is. That's what we call oil reserves.

And no, it doesn't matter if you buy gas tomorrow instead of today. The point is, the same quantity of gas is being purchased during the month. A 24 hour delay won't matter to anyone.

Figuring an X million dollar loss to the oil companies only works if that gas is NEVER purchased. The fact is their X million loss today becomes an X million surplus tomorrow. Whoop de doo. They break even.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, May 14, 2004 2:58 PM

DARKJESTER


Quote:

Figured I'd chuck this in

With the current rate of exchange, I reckon we pay around 7-8 Dollars a gallon here in the UK



I was in Scotland this past summer, and paid 76.9 pence per litre (have the place I bought gas/petrol on video). Convert pounds to dollars, litres to gallons (don't forget 5 quarts to the gallon in Britain!) and I figured I was paying just under $5.00 per American gallon.
One further note... I remember back in '76 I had a Jr High friend who's dad was a delivery driver. I remember hearing his dad complain about the high price of gas - almost a dollar per gallon. Now, 28 years later, we've finally hit twice that. Can you think of a price for anything else that has only doubled in the last 28 years?

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Friday, May 14, 2004 3:50 PM

WHOODAHN


Quote:


And no, it doesn't matter if you buy gas tomorrow instead of today. The point is, the same quantity of gas is being purchased during the month. A 24 hour delay won't matter to anyone.



Yup, I'm agreeing with you.

Everytime the price of gas goes up, that same chainletter gets started.

One chainletter suggested that people boycott just one brand at a time. Say, next Monday everyone boycotts Exxon. What does that do? Nothing. The consumer goes to Chevron and buys Chevron gas. The Chevron stations start to run low and Chevron buys it from Exxon at an inflated price and then passes the extra cost to the consumer. THe price of gas at Chevron goes up and the price of gas at Exxon goes down. Everyone flocks to Exxon and they make a ton of money. Go figure.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 4:02 PM

WHOODAHN


Quote:

Can you think of a price for anything else that has only doubled in the last 28 years?



*Warning: On Soapbox*

Exactly.

The price of homes is going up because of a shortage of lumber in some areas but people don't boycott home builders. The price of meat went up because cows are dying of mad cow disease but people aren't sending out chain letters about slaughter houses. The price of beer is going up (damn!). Everything is going up but the price of gas hasn't kept up. If the price of gas kept up with the other consumables, we would be paying $3-$4 gallon a long time ago.

There was a documentary made many years ago about oil. I think it was called the Power of Gold or something like that. It said that most people think it's a God given right to have cheap gas. The truth is that gasoline is a consumable product subject to the laws of supply and demand.


"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Friday, May 14, 2004 11:15 PM

JOHNCLARK


Quote:

Originally posted by DarkJester:

I was in Scotland this past summer, and paid 76.9 pence per litre (have the place I bought gas/petrol on video). Convert pounds to dollars, litres to gallons (don't forget 5 quarts to the gallon in Britain!) and I figured I was paying just under $5.00 per American gallon.



In my experience, the further north you get in our neck of the woods, the cheaper it gets

While I've been travelling, I've seen it ranging between 75p to 88p a litre. (Also depends on which type of gas you want, and what the rate of exchange is currently doing - Earlier this year, our place was giving $1.80 per £1 - though it's dropped down a little now)

---------------------------------------------
Experience has taught me that interest begets expectation, and expectation begets disappointment, so the key to avoiding disappointment is to avoid interest. A=B=C=A, or whatever

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Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:04 AM

DRAGONFLYDIRECTOR


Agreed. A hoax that has been around since the inception of the 'Net - even back when it was not quite 'civilian'.

Only way is to force legislation to fund research and implimentation of alterntive energy sources.

and/or - Buy a hybrid or full electric vehicle - but they are waaaay expensive for the average Joe and Josie Sixpack.

The fuel cell car is coming in a few years from a few manufacturs
But again - it will be out of the pocket range of the Middle Class. And the upper class cares not about the price of gas. Burning money, so to speak, in the form of gas to show how rich they are.
So the car will 'fail' in the marketplace. Sigh...
...Just a thought or three from me...

"Observe Analyze & Respond"
Motto of the A.P.E.s
Alliance Protean Engineers


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Sunday, May 16, 2004 4:14 AM

DARKJESTER



DragonFlyDirector wrote:
Saturday, May 15, 2004 01:04
Quote:

and/or - Buy a hybrid or full electric vehicle - but they are waaaay expensive for the average Joe and Josie Sixpack.


My sister and brother-in-law just bought a Toyota Prius hybrid, but they got their hands on it purely by luck. Our local Toyota dealer decided to sell their demo Prius, because there is a waiting list of over 12 months for delivery if you order one, and they didn't see the point of telling their customers "Toyota makes this here car, but you can't buy one unless you want to wait a year for it". My sister just happened to be the first to call them after they decided to sell it.

And yes, you can buy a similarly-sized new Hyundai for about half the price of a Prius, or a new Ford Explorer for half again as much, but that's not my point. The demand is there - people are wanting and waiting for these hybrid cars (hence the 1-year waiting period).

My brother-in-law drives it to work every day (almost an hour each way) and the lowest mileage he's gotten is 48.7 mpg.


MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Monday, May 17, 2004 2:17 AM

GHOULMAN


Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.

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Monday, May 17, 2004 9:26 AM

JASONZZZ



No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...



Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.





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Monday, May 17, 2004 5:42 PM

WHOODAHN


Quote:

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.


I haven't looked at the figures but I'm sure you are right. There are other oil producing countries that don't produce as much but still contribute to the overall pool of available crude.

Most of the largest producers make up OPEC.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Monday, May 17, 2004 6:30 PM

JASONZZZ



I skipped the Gulf states (Saudi Arabia, United Emerites, etc.) since they are well known. I suppose it wouldn't have been wrong to *assume* that they rest of that area falls in the same line.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Quote:

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.


I haven't looked at the figures but I'm sure you are right. There are other oil producing countries that don't produce as much but still contribute to the overall pool of available crude.

Most of the largest producers make up OPEC.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"





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Monday, May 17, 2004 6:35 PM

WHOODAHN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I skipped the Gulf states (Saudi Arabia, United Emerites, etc.) since they are well known. I suppose it wouldn't have been wrong to *assume* that they rest of that area falls in the same line.



I was thinking of some of the smaller producers. Don't Korea and Japan export crude?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:12 AM

GHOULMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...



Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.






Wow, you are just full of fun facts!

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 4:21 AM

JASONZZZ




They prolly do. I just made a list of folks (non Gulf states) who pumps more crude than Iraq.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I skipped the Gulf states (Saudi Arabia, United Emerites, etc.) since they are well known. I suppose it wouldn't have been wrong to *assume* that they rest of that area falls in the same line.



I was thinking of some of the smaller producers. Don't Korea and Japan export crude?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"





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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 4:23 AM

JASONZZZ


and *real* too!

Can you imagine writing *fun*, *real*, and the truth?!

Well, at least you can imagine it


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...



Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.






Wow, you are just full of fun facts!





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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:04 AM

TALVIN


Some of the folks in our (liberal) church were complaining that we went to war for oil.

We turned to them and said, "We don't own a car! We walked here today! Don't you live closer than us?"

I have arthritis in the left hip and developing in the right.

My wife is blind and 8 months pregnant.

We do not have, we cannot afford, we do not WANT a car. We hike it and we like it.

Still, yes, we are indirect oil consumers. We accept rides from friends occasionally. The cow didn't walk to the meat market. The chicken did NOT cross the road under its own power. That corn didn't get in the can and on the shelf under solar power.

Still, it's fun to hassle the left and the right when they start screaming about oil. Nyah.

Now if you will excuse me, my wife has a doctor's appointment that we need to start walking to.

"You're 34 weeks pregnant, you walked here, and your blood pressure is only 128 over 68?!?!?" --OB/GYN


"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:06 AM

KALATHENA


Quote:

The oil companies don't own the car companies. The oil companies didn't create the demand for gas, they are trying to fill the demand for gas.


This is very true. The demand for cheap gas began just after WWII when President Truman opted to fund the Interstate Highway System instead of expanding out railway system. At the time this was the SMARTEST thing he could have done. After seeing the destruction to supply lines during the war, Truman was desperate to get us off our dependence on railroads. A train cannot jump the track; a big truck can always drive through a field if desperate enough to get somewhere.

Don't like gas prices now? Buy a hybrid or give a donation to someone reseaching longer lasting power sources for electric cars. There is no short term fix for our oil dependence.

--Kala

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:09 AM

TALVIN


Addendum:

We don't want a car.

We want a midbulk transport.

Which uses some oil as lubricants and probably some plastics and the like, but it doesn't burn it.

So park yer SUVs and go for full burn. Given the shoestring budget they seem to work on, it MUST be cheaper to fuel than a Suburban.



"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:32 AM

WHOODAHN


Quote:


This is very true. The demand for cheap gas began just after WWII when President Truman opted to fund the Interstate Highway System instead of expanding out railway system. At the time this was the SMARTEST thing he could have done. After seeing the destruction to supply lines during the war, Truman was desperate to get us off our dependence on railroads. A train cannot jump the track; a big truck can always drive through a field if desperate enough to get somewhere.

Don't like gas prices now? Buy a hybrid or give a donation to someone reseaching longer lasting power sources for electric cars. There is no short term fix for our oil dependence.

--Kala



I'm not familiar with Truman's decision but I imagine that he really had a fight with the railroad companies. They were very strong and didn't usually play by the rules. I can't imagine the politics involved in making a cultural decision to change a form of transportation.

The world really needs to make changes to it's fuel consumption. It isn't just automotive fuel, it's cruise ships, cargo ships, airplanes, military vehicles, plastics, lubricants, etc. The world relies on petroleum based products and one day it will run out.


"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 5:38 AM

GHOULMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

and *real* too!

Can you imagine writing *fun*, *real*, and the truth?!

Well, at least you can imagein it


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...



Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.






Wow, you are just full of fun facts!






Yeah, well you are correct. I'm not disputing your facts. But you don't seem to get the point. The point being it doesn't take a conspiracy theory to realize that no matter what happens, including the West controling more oil than it has ever before in history, the people will still be milked.

The point being, we are being ripped off. Ripped off and sold out.

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:21 AM

JASONZZZ




You are right, I do *not* get it. Every single one of us has the option to *not* drive, to *not* use oil. We burden and strap ourselves to this dependency. No one is getting held hostage and told to buy and drive their automobile (gas guzzling or otherwise)

But if one does make the choice to use new technology and machinery - and continue to use it en masse with abandonment. Who is to blame? With some exceptions, its the whim of the consumer and the market forces that drive the prices (Enron bastards). If you are continually willing to buy it at $2.50/gal, $3.00/gal, or $5.00/gal, apparently, it is *worth* that price. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying "buy this gas at $10.00/gal".

If you don't want it, don't buy it.

Here's my point, stupid people get sold out, intelligent people make the *damned* choices and live with it - no regrets, intelligent people find out how they aren't going to be "f*cked at the drive-thru" next time.

Even though we never seem to agree on one damn thing, from what I've read, you are one of the intelligent ones (ok, might not be the most reasoned person, but still) and I am pretty sure you'll figure out a way to keep buying this load of crap.




Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

and *real* too!

Can you imagine writing *fun*, *real*, and the truth?!

Well, at least you can imagein it


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

No, it just points to the glaringly apparent need that we just need new and better conspiracy theories.

and actually, The US, Russia, Iran, Mexico, Norway, China, Venezuela, Canada, and the UK (none Gulf states) all produce more barrels per day than Iraq.

The US alone produces 3 times more than Iraq...



Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Let me get this straight...

The USA invades and occupies the richest oil producing country on the planet... and oil prices go up?

Somehow it seems to me we are very, very, gullable. Hoaxes asside.






Wow, you are just full of fun facts!






Yeah, well you are correct. I'm not disputing your facts. But you don't seem to get the point. The point being it doesn't take a conspiracy theory to realize that no matter what happens, including the West controling more oil than it has ever before in history, the people will still be milked.

The point being, we are being ripped off. Ripped off and sold out.





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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:28 AM

JASONZZZ



That decision also fueled the subsequent suburban growth and deprecation of the inner city life. With Highways came the supermalls and suburban sprawl out into whatever people deemed was the acceptable daily driving range is. The smarter
cities and counties around the country has adopted smart city planning and growth control policies to limit uncontrolled sprawl, better thought out communites, centralized city transportation, etc. Portland, Oregon... here I come.


Quote:

Originally posted by WhooDahn:
Quote:


This is very true. The demand for cheap gas began just after WWII when President Truman opted to fund the Interstate Highway System instead of expanding out railway system. At the time this was the SMARTEST thing he could have done. After seeing the destruction to supply lines during the war, Truman was desperate to get us off our dependence on railroads. A train cannot jump the track; a big truck can always drive through a field if desperate enough to get somewhere.

Don't like gas prices now? Buy a hybrid or give a donation to someone reseaching longer lasting power sources for electric cars. There is no short term fix for our oil dependence.

--Kala



I'm not familiar with Truman's decision but I imagine that he really had a fight with the railroad companies. They were very strong and didn't usually play by the rules. I can't imagine the politics involved in making a cultural decision to change a form of transportation.

The world really needs to make changes to it's fuel consumption. It isn't just automotive fuel, it's cruise ships, cargo ships, airplanes, military vehicles, plastics, lubricants, etc. The world relies on petroleum based products and one day it will run out.


"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"





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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:38 AM

WHOODAHN


Quote:

Portland, Oregon... here I come.



Where do you live now?

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 6:56 AM

WHOODAHN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
But if one does make the choice to use new technology and machinery - and continue to use it en masse with abandonment. Who is to blame? With some exceptions, its the whim of the consumer and the market forces that drive the prices (Enron bastards). If you are continually willing to buy it at $2.50/gal, $3.00/gal, or $5.00/gal, apparently, it is *worth* that price. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying "buy this gas at $10.00/gal".

If you don't want it, don't buy it.



Exactly.

My point (lost somewhere in this maze of posts) is that the market sets the price of a commodity based on the consumers willingness to purchase at that price. Basically the consumer sets the price. As long as the comsumer is willing to consume and pay the asking price, then it will stay at the asking price.

For example, I don't know if it costs $2000 to make a computer or $40,000 to make a car but if people are willing to buy them at that cost, then what drives the market to lower the price? Nothing.

My heartburn acts up when people blame oil refineries for the price of gas. Truthfully most refineries have very little control over the price of gas. If they could control their profit, the small refineries wouldn't be going out of business and the large oil companies wouldn't be merging to stay alive.

If people want to blame someone for the high price of gas, blame the consumer. Oil refineries are trying to fill the hole the consumer has dug for themselves.

"I ain't crazy and I've got papers to prove it"

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:46 AM

SAMURAIX47


Quote:

Originally posted by Talvin:

Now if you will excuse me, my wife has a doctor's appointment that we need to start walking to.

"You're 34 weeks pregnant, you walked here, and your blood pressure is only 128 over 68?!?!?" --OB/GYN



Now that shows how walking is one of the most healthiest forms of exercise for anybody. My wife also had excellent blood pressure during pregnancy and she exercised 3-5 times a week. Kepp up the walking Talvin.

Jaymes

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:55 AM

MRSSPOOKY


I already use less gas - I've been driving a Civic Hybrid for going on two years now.

46.5 miles per gallon - I only have to fill up every two weeks.

It's not oil independence, but it's a step in the right direction (and it doesn't pollute either, also good).

Good news though - I heard that Orlando (my home) has been picked as a location for a hydrogen fuel test station. We'll be seeing a fleet of hydrogen-powered vehicles in the next few years.

Now THAT'S a technology we NEED!! Hopefully the oil barons will start converting their investments to hydrogen fuel cell technology. Then maybe they won't be fighting the move away from oil.



"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing."

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:11 AM

GHOULMAN


Some useful reading...

The future of energy

The end of the Oil Age
Oct 23rd 2003
From The Economist print edition


Ways to break the tyranny of oil are coming into view. Governments need to promote them
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2155717

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Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:43 AM

CAPNRAHN


Walking is fine very fine indeed. I can sympthize with hour hip ijury. My left hip has crushed gangila (nerves)and hurts like hell, but I still walk, because I cannot run for fitness because of broken cartiledge.

But what if your only option is to live 30+ miles from work place of work and there is NO public transport nor a ride you can hitch?

Your gonna say "Get a job closer to home". In the boonies, you only make minium wage - trust me we tried to find something within walkin' distance. Mostly we found that familes who owned business' hired family.

Next you might say "Get a home in the city" - Sorry, no thanks. Personal opinon: cities are nice to vist - but remind me of overfull rat cages. Anybody remember that experiment set?

Please don't forget that not everybody can live the type of life you have. Gota watch out for that limited perscpective making folks belive that everyone can live in the same manner as someone else. LOL, it would be much like living like the Eloi in "The Time Machine" - Idyllic perhaps, but stagnant.

Everything is a matter of relative perspective!



"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Thursday, May 20, 2004 7:26 AM

SAMURAIX47


I am so sorry... NOT!

I had to stop and get gas at Stop&Shop which was at $201.9 (US) but with my shoppers card 5 cents less... because if I didn't i would have been stranded on the highway on an empty tank 15 miles from home. I commute 35 miles each way everyday so what was i supposed to do?

I say drive more!
Buy more!
Improve the economy!

Jaymes

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Friday, May 21, 2004 5:15 PM

TALVIN


CapnRahn:

Hooooold on.

I did not suggest that everyone ditch their cars. Rather, I am pointing out that they are overused. Perhaps I should have made that more clear.

I used to live 30 miles from nowhere myself, growing up with my family. I don't care for the big city, I live in a "micropolis" (yes, there is such a classification).

I do realize that cars are necessary for some things, and I am not calling for a ban on them. I just have a problem with seeing people, ATHLETES even, driving across a college campus that I can just about piss across, even on a fine sunny day. Now that's just car addiction.

Please don't say, "You're gonna say," because that is putting words in my mouth that I was NOT gonna say.


"I give up. I admit it. I'm a Browncoat."

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Friday, May 21, 2004 5:40 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/02/040214081412.htm

New Reactor Puts Hydrogen From Renewable Fuels Within Reach
MINNEAPOLIS / ST. PAUL (2/12/2004) -- The first reactor capable of producing hydrogen from a renewable fuel source - ethanol - efficiently enough to hold economic potential has been invented by University of Minnesota engineers. When coupled with a hydrogen fuel cell, the unit - small enough to hold in your hand - could generate one kilowatt of power, almost enough to supply an average home, the researchers said. The technology is poised to remove the major stumbling block to the “hydrogen economy”.

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