REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

We are all animals, milady.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 06:21
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3585
PAGE 2 of 3

Thursday, April 19, 2012 5:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested and charged with "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer." Both these felonies are considered third-degree. Due to his desperate attempts, the charges were reduced to "resisting officer without violence" and then the only remaining charge was also completely waived off when he entered an alcohol education program.
Zimmerman was arrested. The charges were not "dropped" and his record was not "expunged"; the charges were "waived" because he made a deal to enter a program. But the record remains, as do his others.
Quote:

does have both an official and an in-house record. He has a drug history, a violence history
Quote:

he is clearly someone who is on the radar of local police
You will have to provide cites for that, because in my search for the above, I found NOTHING even indicating any of that.

Quote:

I have found some people with that history seem to radiate trouble...I suspect this is the bad vibe that first drew Zimmerman's attention and concerned him enough to contact the police.
You don't know that; you are extrapolating from your own beliefs. It's not worth bothering to provide facts to you any further; your view is obviously so baised and blind that reason has nothing to do with your arguments.

Did someone say you were an attorney? If so, scary, and my sympathy goes out to your clients...you definitely do not think like a lawyer, or have any respect for facts.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 19, 2012 5:52 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by HERO:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Boy, I hope you know your facts better in court, as you just flat out lied.

Martin's only record is suspension from school - no criminal record at all.

Zimmerman DOES have an arrest record, having been charged in 2005 with resisting arrest and assault on an officer.... gee, kinda sounds like a history of violence, don't it?

Once again, we see how "honest" the resident lawyer is.
!"


Zimmerman's record has been widely reported...but legally he has no record. A person with the same name and age was arrested, he was never convicted of a crime and the arrest was expunged. That means it never happened...legally. Police can not consider it and it would not show up on a background check.

So, no record for Zimmerman. Martin, however, does have both an official and an in-house record. He has a drug history, a violence history, and is a suspected burglar. While he may not have been caught on something serious, yet, he is clearly someone who is on the radar of local police. I have found some people with that history seem to radiate trouble...I suspect this is the bad vibe that first drew Zimmerman's attention and concerned him enough to contact the police.

H



More lies and obvious bias from the Lawyer.

You are a shining example of your slimy profession.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:21 AM

OONJERAH



It's a hell of a thing, killing a youth.
You take away all he'll ever become and all he'll ever create.
Yes ... and all he'll ever love.
.
.
.
But then again ... he was a skittles eater.



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:36 PM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Quote:

Originally posted by HERO:

So, no record for Zimmerman. Martin, however, does have both an official and an in-house record. He has a drug history, a violence history, and is a suspected burglar. While he may not have been caught on something serious, yet

Ooooh, round 2 here: FUCK YOU you stupid fucking asswiping straw grabbin' tawdry Judge Dredd-wannabe punk bitch.
Keep digging, maybe you'll find gold, but you won't find TRUTH.
YET??? He's DEAD, asshole.
Jeeze, you keep sinking lower... I actually respected you, to a point... once...

WTH.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:45 PM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


I must apologize to the community at large for my reaction to Hero.
But it's an honest one, so I won't delete it.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 20, 2012 6:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Of course it's an honest one (tho' more direct than your usual); it's one a number of us have regularly. Statements such as that, which are totally factually untrue, amaze everyone, and usually piss us off for their complete denial of the truth. It's a reaction I feel frequently, but since I let my venom out fairly regularly, while you are almost consistently civil, it's no surprise it built up in you to bursting point. I still shake my head at the very notion that he's any kind of "lawyer"--that's amazing, and I've worked with plenty of crazy lawyers. I can't think of a one who would make such an insane statement.

Dinna fash yerself, love; you're only being human, which is comforting to see. Occasionally (very occasionally) I feel a bit guilty about my forthrightness and snarking, so it's nice to know my feelings, at least, are shared by someone who is far more civil than I.

I note there has been no forthcoming evidence of any "drug history" or "history of violence" by the maker of the statement. Because of course none such exists. His suspension? According to the school, “He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],” There is no "official" OR "in-house" record of violence, and "Earlier, he had been suspended for skipping school and showing up late to class. And most recently, in February, he was suspended again when officials found a 'marijuana pipe' and an empty baggie with traces of the drug. NONE of that proves he had a "history of drugs", and none are of any importance whatsoever with regard to what happened, while Zimmerman's actual OFFICIAL record of previous violence DOES. It's insane that someone supposedly educated in the law chose to completely ignore Zimmerman's documented criminal record of violence and claim a history for Trayvon which hasn't a single proven fact to back it up.

Rumors and slurs, as opposed to reality, in order to claim the opposite of recorded facts, is bad enough from uninformed posters on an internet forum, but from someone who claims he's well versed in the law, it's obscene. (Actually, I find it strange that you ever DID respect Hero...I once respected Geezer, but I've since been proven wrong...but Hero? Was he different before I came? Because everything I've read from him has been pretty absurd...)



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 20, 2012 8:32 AM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
(Actually, I find it strange that you ever DID respect Hero...I once respected Geezer, but I've since been proven wrong...but Hero? Was he different before I came? Because everything I've read from him has been pretty absurd...)



Hi Niki!
Well, there was this short span of time after he met his girlfriend, and he was all in love, I guess, and for a while he seemed to be making some sense here & there... either they got married, or they broke up, 'cause he's back to where he used to be.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 20, 2012 8:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhh, I see. That must have been before I got here, and makes sense. 'Cuz I've seen nothing to indicate anyone should respect him since I came here, but people change. And change back, apparently...



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 20, 2012 5:37 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Excessive violence is what happens when order breaks down in a society.



Hardly.

The Nazis would disagree.

Then again what violence is excessive? The Nazis used excessive violence to further their cause. The allies used similar levels of violence to oppose them, yet the allies could not be considered excessive.

Violence is a matter of perspective.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 20, 2012 6:25 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
YET??? He's DEAD, asshole.


I think this is where your excessive emotional response is coming from.

I've gotten these calls. Girl found dead with needle in arm, do I charge the boyfriend/supplier? no. Facts dd not support.

Toddler in pool, do I charge Grandpa? Yes, facts supported.

Man with broken neck on stars? Charge son? Yes.

Man shot by police, charge cops? No, had gun, shot at cops, just killed two women.

Woman assaulted by husband, gun discharges, charge man? Yes.

Man scalped in restaurant full of people...ok, that one was obvious.

Woman strangled, charge brother? Yes.

I get 3-5 bodies per year, so I'm not moved by "he's dead". I prefer "what happened", "who was he" "tell me abut him" "who killed him" "tell me about that guy" "evidence".

Here we have armed guy shoots unarmed guy. He's dead. Armed guy has no record (it was expunged so cannot be considerd), decent reputation, etc. unarmed guy is on radar as suspect in burglaries, has drug history, has history of violence or at least stupid posturing, but young guy on bad path. Ok, what happened? How? Close range as part of physical confrontation. No duty to retreat, gun legal. Injuries to armed man. Head injury. Unarmed guy on top of armed guy. Justifiable use of force or let himself be beaten? 911 calls, shooter. 911 calls, witnesses. Ear witness on phone with unarmed guy, hearsay so can't use. Armed man says assaulted. Eyewitness. Evidence consistent wih his story of how shooting happened (injuries, close contact shooting, witness) and consistent with story of actions prior to confrontation (called police, gave description). Cannot verify how confrontation started. Now two questions become central to the case:

1. Is there any reason not to believe he is telling the truth?

2. Is there any way to prove beyond a reaonable doubt he is not telling the truth?

The emotional part of the case, the "he's dead" is barely relevant to te inquiry. You don't want it to be. The mere fact of the death sheds no light on how and why and what can I prove.

You guys don't like it but that's the way it works and should work. I don't make popular decisions, I make decisions. Today I had a man's bond revoked and had him thrown in jail pending trial for felony domestic violence...over the objections of the victim and the tears of his daughters. Why? Cause he talked to the victim, with her permission on the way out of court violating a court order of no contact imposed despite my own request contact be allowed. He violated a condition of his bond. Jail till trial. He'll lose his job, nobody to support his family. He was stupid and angry and emotional. Court was angry, victim in tears, but I'm not emotional, I'm just relaying to the court the facts.

You want emotion to dictate action call a priest or a politician next time you've got a dead body and let me sleep in. You might get an arrest, but you probably won't get justice.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 20, 2012 8:11 PM

OONJERAH



from Zimmerman's bond hearing, as to his credibility =>
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0420/George-Zimmerman-bond-h
earing-5-new-things-we-learned/Inconsistencies-in-Zimmerman-s-story-raised-police-suspicions


during his turn on the stand, [Detective] Gilbreath drew attention to Zimmerman's
assertion to police that Trayvon was at one point running around Zimmerman's car.
Gilbreath questioned why that should make Zimmerman fear for his life. “[Zimmerman]
was so scared that he still got out of the car and chased Mr. Martin,” Gilbreath
said skeptically.

This statement also appears in the "Bail and Blood" thread.



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 20, 2012 8:56 PM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Quote:

Originally posted by HERO:

young guy on bad path.

Thank you, God.
God of dickwad.
All-seeing dork.
Keeper of the Ee'd Plebnista.

KIRK: This was not written for chiefs. (general consternation) Hear me! Hear this! Among my people, we carry many such words as this from many lands, many worlds. Many are equally good and are as well respected, but wherever we have gone, no words have said this thing of importance in quite this way. Look at these three words written larger than the rest, with a special pride never written before or since. Tall words proudly saying We the People. That which you call Ee'd Plebnista was not written for the chiefs or the kings or the warriors or the rich and powerful, but for all the people! Down the centuries, you have slurred the meaning of the words, 'We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution.' These words and the words that follow were not written only for the Yangs, but for the Kohms as well!
CLOUD: The Kohms?
KIRK: They must apply to everyone or they mean nothing! Do you understand?


Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 21, 2012 7:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

It's a hell of a thing, killing a youth.
You take away all he'll ever become and all he'll ever create.
Yes ... and all he'll ever love.
.
.
.
But then again ... he was a skittles eater.




Skittles are getting a bad rap here. Trayvon was bashing EZ's head into the ground. Pics show it.

Does that mean Trayvon should have died for his violence ? Nope. This is bad, any way ya look at it. But to try to be cute about this, and bring up " he died for eating skittles " , isn't constructive for anyone.



" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 21, 2012 7:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Guy with a gun goes after someone. That someone winds up shot dead. That's all that I need to know. Everything else is ghafla, since the hunter provided the original action which put all the other pieces into motion.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 21, 2012 7:35 AM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Thank you Signy, that's what it boils down to for me as well.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, April 22, 2012 4:59 AM

KPO

"Love is natural and real. But not for you my love. Not tonight my love..."


Quote:

He has a drug history, a violence history


What was Martin's violence history?

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, April 22, 2012 5:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The past charges against Zimmerman were NOT "expunged", they were "waived off" (see cite above) because he agreed to go into a program. He was ARRESTED for violence against a police officer, that IS on record, whereas Martin was never arrested or charge with anything.
Quote:

is on radar as suspect in burglaries, has drug history, has history of violence or at least stupid posturing, but young guy on bad path
That's where I DEFINITELY question your assertions you are a lawyer, much less have won cases at trial. Martin wasn't on any "radar", certainly not by the police! He was once found with some jewelry, but no arrest or prosecution was pursued. He has no "drug history"; he was found with a baggie which supposedly had marijuana residue and a pipe, but THAT is not on any police record either. Nor is there ANY official record of violence. To make the leap to his being on a "bad path" is completely unsubstantiated by any actual police record.

You've chosen to portray some things mentioned here and there as a "record", which is totally false, and chosen to portray an arrest by police, lessening of charges (charges, get it?) and finally waiving off of charges because of a sort of plea-type deal, all official police records, as "no record". There is also the charge by a previous wife of domestic violence and a court order against him, and a third charge (I believe a DUI?). That may be disputed as the woman also had a court order against her, but that is also official record.

What you've done isn't even legal nitpicking, it's totally erroneous. "Unarmed guy on top of armed guy"--again you've gone with supposition. There are witnesses saying one was on top of the other, and other witnesses saying the opposite. Plus one of the witnesses saying Martin was on top of Zimmerman has come into question as possibly having been coerced by the police. As to
Quote:

Is there any reason not to believe he is telling the truth?
Quite a few. As Oonj pointed out, at one point he is said to have claimed Martin was "running around his truck"; at another he claimed he followed and confronted Martin, then changed it to Martin having attacked him from the rear as he was returning to his truck. The ear witness account certainly can't be verified, but it HAS been verified that she was on the phone with him at the exact time of the confrontation, as well as her having been taken to hospital because of the shock of what she heard; so that lends credibility to her account. If you choose to portray Martin in the ways you have, with no official record, and ignore Zimmerman's ACTUAL police record, then you can't dismiss the ear-witness testimony completely.

Also, tho' a dispatcher has no official capacity, Zimmerman DEFINITELY went against the clear instructions of the Sanford Police Department's guidelines for neighborhood watch. That will come into it, and it's weight will be shown at trial.

In actuality, most of us are NOT being emotional, except to one another. We review the facts and are DEBATING what we believe; it is, if anything, you who are being emotional by choosing to ignore some facts and believe others which have not been proven, in court or even by arrest and charge. Your charges of emotionality are transferrence, if anything, because WE have been debating the actual FACTS and some possibilities, it's you who have flatly refused to recognize the official facts and put your own spin on the story, for whatever reason.

And once again, I disbelieve your claims you are an attorney or how you have been involved with the law; given your actions and suppositions are MOST un-lawyer-like, it would seem you don't make decisions according to facts, something no decent lawyer would do. I worked for attorneys most of my working life, and I can guarantee that none of them would characterize the case as you have; they would abide by what is KNOWN and what is official record, not by rumor and conjecture, substantiated by no official record.

You want emotional? After seeing Zimmerman and hearing him speak, I feel sorry for the guy. I THINK he acted in a way he's been shown to before; as cop wannabe, and given he's never been in trouble for his actions in Sanford before, I think he got carried away with his sense of authority, some bias (not necessarily against Blacks, but possibly against an unknown person walking around late at night in a hoodie, looking at houses because all of them look alike and he's unfamiliar with the neighborhood, which could look suspicious). I believe Zimmerman is "dazed and confused" about what's happening to him, has made numerous moves which indicate this (the problems with his lawyers and the apology in court), and has lost both his enjoyed position of authority and much, much more as a result of his foolish actions. I don't know who attacked who or why Zimmerman shot Martin, but I'm sad for all involved, including Zimmerman.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:26 AM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trayvon was bashing EZ's head into the ground. Pics show it.


Wait- there are actual PICTURES of the struggle??? WHERE!?!?!?! Link us, dude!

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, April 22, 2012 12:48 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by HERO:

I suspect this is the bad vibe that first drew Zimmerman's attention and concerned him enough to contact the police.

H



Are 'bad vibes' the kind of justification you would use in self defence in court?


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 23, 2012 8:00 AM

KPO

"Love is natural and real. But not for you my love. Not tonight my love..."


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trayvon was bashing EZ's head into the ground. Pics show it.


Wait- there are actual PICTURES of the struggle??? WHERE!?!?!?! Link us, dude!

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives


It seems to me entirely plausible (and I've said this from the start) that Zimmerman could have inflicted some or all of his injuries himself, after the shooting, to aid his self-defense claim. Though now I think he'll get the benefit of the doubt.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 23, 2012 10:31 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Are 'bad vibes' the kind of justification you would use in self defence in court?


I've noticed sometimes people get a bad feeling about other people.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen police zero in on someone only to find that person has a felony warrant, illegal drugs in their possession, or is drunk.

Having delt with bad folks I find myself walking in a store or sitting in a resturant...suddenly I see someone who just feels wrong.

All it does is draw your attention. Self defense is about what the other person does...the mere fact that because of their behaivor, stance, whatever it is suddenly they've got my attention, that only makes it less likely I'll be taken by surprise. (I note for the records that velociraptos hunted by drawing ones attention so that others could strike from another direction...at least they did in the movie).

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 23, 2012 10:48 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
KIRK: They must apply to everyone or they mean nothing!


Citing learned sources...I can do that:

PICARD
(interrupting; angry)
No! The most dangerous 'same old
story' is the one we're meeting
now! Those who go on
misinformation, half-information,
self-righteous life forms who are
eager not to learn but to
prosecute, to judge anything they
don't understand or can't
tolerate.

"Q" (21ST CENTURY)
What an interesting idea.
Prosecute and judge?


PICARD
We've no fear of what the true
facts about us will reveal.

"Q" (21ST CENTURY)
The facts about you? Splendid,
splendid! You are a veritable
fountain of good ideas.


H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:15 AM

KPO

"Love is natural and real. But not for you my love. Not tonight my love..."


I don't buy that Martin was giving off bad 'vibes' while he was on the phone to his girlfriend, and innocently walking home. It sounds more like profiling.

Hero, still waiting for you to back up this claim about Trayvon Martin having a 'violence history'.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:39 AM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
I don't buy that Martin was giving off bad 'vibes' while he was on the phone to his girlfriend, and innocently walking home.

No, it was the 'eating Skittles like gangbangers eat them' thing.

Right, Hero?

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

No, it was the 'eating Skittles like gangbangers eat them' thing.
Hee, hee, hee.

I don't buy Zimmerman could hav injured himself...people were apparently there within a minute or so of his having shot Martin. Plus the "vibe" I get from HIM is that he's not real smart...added to the fact that he's not been really successful in life or at learning.

But the other "vibe" thing is to me further example of the fact that Hero either isn't an attorney or is a bad one. Tho' come to think of it, his mentality might fit perfectly well with a lawyer, just not a very good one. The "vibe" thing is totally ridiculous and has no place in the law, especially as Zimmerman couldn't have known anything about Martin whatsoever when he spotted him.

Yes, I'm still waiting for that "history of violence" thing, too, plus I'd like to know how he can consider Zimmerman to have "no" past record of violence, as well as proof Martin was on someone's "radar". I kinda doubt we're gonna get our wish tho'...

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 7:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA



He doesn't have to be any good Niki - like I said, the guy starts with a stacked deck, a biased jury pool then cleansed of anyone not sympathetic to the state, kept in the dark and then spoon fed cherry picked evidence and testimony to lead them by the nose to the desired conclusion.

And this has made him both lazy, and sloppy - he forgets that WE *can* go look at things ourselves without being punted or cited for contempt, that we know things other than the pablum of bullshit he's tryin to feed us, that we may NOT be sympathetic to the State, and so on and so forth.
His own reflexes betray him, in this, and it shows.
S'why I generally don't bother humilatin him, cause he does such a wonderful job all by his lonesome thanks to his own psychological laziness and gaping blind spots.


Bad vibes, that's hilarious though - one thing I do when something seems wrong or out of sorts is take up a discreet position nearby and observe, almost without fail I can resolve the what and why without actually needing to hassle anyone or even speak to them, two cases in point.


Thursday Night: two cars, one following real close behind the other, and the first one peels off by building 25 and slowly, with much correcting, backs into a parking space = which they ain't supposed to do here cause the exhaust does no wonders for the grass, but sometimes people unload things, or guests do not know, or whatever - unless someone makes a bad habit of it, or I am specifically ordered to take note of it (it's kind of a pet peeve with the big boss) I just leave well the hell enough alone.

So, I sweep up and look the car over - no plates.
Not stolen (not worth stealing) and the persons did have the keys, and set the alarm on exit cause I heard the bip-bip... okay, no car thief sets the damn car alarm, and likely they backed it in to hide the fact that it ain't got plates on it cause that's ANOTHER of the Big Boss's pet peeves.

What is this ?
Someone bought this car, wanted to take possession and move it, but was too late to hook up with the local Sec-State and get temp plates - okay, I can dig it, and I'll look the other way...
For 24 hours, which I did, and it's got temp plates - if it hadn't, I'd make a note and let the office deal with it cause nitpickin people ain't my damn job, yanno ?


Monday Night: punching key#4 by building 16 - man on doorstep of unit wearing dark jacket and hoodie, examining the lock, fumbling with something, looks all MANNER of suspicious, but he don't see me, so I watch a moment, and what he's fumbling with is a set of keys, trying to figure out which one fits.
He's not the resident, as she's a sweet lady and fellow cat lover, so I offer him my hand light to check his key ring, watching his reaction...
He's not nervous, and seems more comfortable with my presence than even most perfectly honest people are, which means someone has told him who I am and what I do - which trips as relative/boyfriend.
He goes to his car, looking for his other key ring in his go-bag, and the bag, vehicle, and other factors all click, college student, newbie one at that, approximate threat: ZERO.
So I pull out the laundry room key and shine my light on it, to illustrate what the proper Weslock key for that door should look like, and he's like "nah man, imma just call her, it's cold out here." and so I go on my merry as he makes the call, overhearing just the beginning of it locks it for me, boyfriend, and I mentally mark his vehicle as "frequent flyer/guest" and continue my round.


Bad vibes means shit - if I had rushed that guy, gotten in his personal space all aggressive and started making demands or threatening him, he might have freaked out and when people do that you've no idea what they'll do, threat or not - so why provoke it needlessly ?

This is, mind you, why smart people hire professionals instead of ego-amped psycho cop-wannabe amateurs.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 10:47 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
But the other "vibe" thing is to me further example of the fact that Hero either isn't an attorney or is a bad one. Tho' come to think of it, his mentality might fit perfectly well with a lawyer, just not a very good one. The "vibe" thing is totally ridiculous and has no place in the law, especially as Zimmerman couldn't have known anything about Martin whatsoever when he spotted him.


Are you saying people don't pick up on the non-verbal signs other people are putting out? I think you are wrong.

"That guy looked at me funny."
"There was a crazy look in their eye."
"He looks angry/scared/happy/sad/like fun/dangerous/suspicious/hungry/in a hurry/silly/serious."

Frowns, smiles, dirty looks, clothes, attitude, walk...all these things are both displayed and registered on a mostly unconcious level. Mr. Martin's videos, pictures, and internet postings suggest that he was seeking to copy and emulate gang culture. It was evident in how he talked, wrote, dressed, acted, his manner, his attitude. All of this is readily apparent to a casual observer and Mr. Zimmerman was not a casual observer, he was paying very close attention to Mr. Martin. Maybe Mr. Martin was not as tough or dangerous as he appeared or acted...but its how he appeared and acted that drew Zimmerman's attention.

Ironically I think that was Mr. Martin's intent. He wanted to portray himself in this dangerous gang-ish fashion...he was successful. That he failed to consider the potential negative consequences of adopting at least the outward display violent confrontational lifestyle is hardly surprising...in fact its typical.
Quote:


Yes, I'm still waiting for that "history of violence" thing, too, plus I'd like to know how he can consider Zimmerman to have "no" past record of violence, as well as proof Martin was on someone's "radar".


Here's the Martin history...at least so far as has been reported.

His school reports several incidents with Mr. Martin. First he was observed in an area he was not supposed to be (Trespass). Next he was observed spray painting a door (Criminal Damaging). Next he was found to be in possession of twelve pieces of women' jewelry such as engagement rings, earings, etc...all real and stolen as well as a modified screwdriver typical of burglaries (Recieving/Possession of Stolen Property and Possession of Criminal Tools...likely felony level). Lastly (so far) he was found to be in possession of traces of marijauna and a "smoking device" (Drug Possession and Drug Paraphenalia).

The school mistakenly decided not to involve local authorities and handled the matter themselves. I believe given those facts he should have been charged. I think putting Mr. Martin into the juvenile court system would likely have saved his life...but that is speculation.

Police have indicated that Mr. Martin was a suspect in several local burglaries.

Mr. Martin also claimed to have assaulted a bus driver on his own Twitter account. His friends later lamented his death but they "know yu whooped his ass doe".

His Myspace page...quickly deleted by his family...shows he had gold teeth and numerous tattoos, hardly the innocent picture the media keeps showing (which is a photo of a twelve-year old).

There is more we don't know. But we will...

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 12:40 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:


I've noticed sometimes people get a bad feeling about other people.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen police zero in on someone only to find that person has a felony warrant, illegal drugs in their possession, or is drunk.

Having delt with bad folks I find myself walking in a store or sitting in a resturant...suddenly I see someone who just feels wrong.

All it does is draw your attention. Self defense is about what the other person does...the mere fact that because of their behaivor, stance, whatever it is suddenly they've got my attention, that only makes it less likely I'll be taken by surprise. (I note for the records that velociraptos hunted by drawing ones attention so that others could strike from another direction...at least they did in the movie).

H



Wow, that is a shitty justification. Would not stand up in court here. I'm getting that lawyers standards are quite poor in the US.

In the end, bad vibe can be about prejudice, as possible in this case. You get the bad vibe because your expectations are that a young, black male wearing a hoodie must be up to no good. This is one of the things that black people complain about. They get pulled up by the cops more often, because their bad vibe is actually their skin colour.

Wrong on so many counts.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:23 PM

KPO

"Love is natural and real. But not for you my love. Not tonight my love..."


You're not being very forthcoming with links/cites for all the facts about Trayvon you're claiming Hero.

Quote:

Mr. Martin also claimed to have assaulted a bus driver on his own Twitter account.


Wrong. Someone going by the name 'TRAY'S BIG BRUH' (presumably TM's big brother?) made the comment: "yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver" on Trayvon's account. This is the 'violence history' you were referring to?

It's interesting that Zimmerman, charged in 2005 with resisting arrest with violence and battery of a law enforcement officer "legally has no record". But Trayvon Martin, thanks to a single uncorroborated line of vague hearsay on a twitter account has 'a violence history'.

Just in case anyone thought Hero was offering an honest and trustworthy legal analysis of the case...

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:39 PM

KPO

"Love is natural and real. But not for you my love. Not tonight my love..."


Quote:

I don't buy Zimmerman could hav injured himself


At Zimmerman's bail hearing:

Quote:

(state investigator) Gilbreath said Zimmerman's claim that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager was "not consistent with the evidence we found." He gave no details.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57418405/experts-zimmerman-attorne
y-made-smart-move/?tag=contentBody;storyMediaBox


As Hero said: "There is more we don't know. But we will... "

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:54 PM

OONJERAH


Quote KPO "Hero, still waiting for you to back up this claim about Trayvon Martin
having a 'violence history'."

Here 'tis!




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 24, 2012 6:38 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


This thread sounds like it should be about Dr. Dolittle and not this. Too bad it isn't, Push me pull you anyone? :)

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 25, 2012 7:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Wow, that is a shitty justification. Would not stand up in court here. I'm getting that lawyers standards are quite poor in the US.

In the end, bad vibe can be about prejudice, as possible in this case. You get the bad vibe because your expectations are that a young, black male wearing a hoodie must be up to no good. This is one of the things that black people complain about. They get pulled up by the cops more often, because their bad vibe is actually their skin colour.

Wrong on so many counts.

Magons, you're absolutely right. Except about attorney standards here. Because that's only if you accept that Hero is a lawyer, or if he is, that he represents the majority of lawyers in America. He may be faking being a lawyer, or just a very bad one; either way, he's not representational of the attorneys I worked for my entire working life, nor those I have observed over time. His assertion, as mentioned, that Trayvon had a "history of violence" while Zimmerman had "none" is a prime example of him not even being able to THINK like a lawyer. If he is one (which I seriously doubt), he's a horrible reflection on the legal profession!

Certainly there are bad lawyers, lazy lawyers, prejudied lawyers and sloppy lawyers, but few of them ignore proven facts in favor of claiming things with no proof to back them up are "fact"! If he tried to present that argument in court, he would be laughed out of the building.

When I read comments from people like this, I am always reminded of the bit from the TV series West Wing where Josh discovers LemonLyman, a website devoted to him, and attempts to post on it.
Quote:

C.J.: Let me explain something to you, this is sort of my field. The people on these sites? They're the cast of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest."

Well, now I'm telling you to open the ward room window and climb on out before they give you a pre-frontal lobotomy, and I have to smother you with a pillow.

I'm assigning an intern from the press office to that web site. They're going to check it every night before they go home. If they discover you've been there, I'm going to shove a motherboard so far up your ass...

I love what followed that:
Quote:

Josh looks down at the floor.

C.J.
What?

JOSH
[with a slight shrug] Well... technically, I outrank you.

C.J.
[shouting] So far up your ass!

JOSH
[quickly] Okay.

Gawd, I miss that show! It was not only a great insight into the workings of our government, it was beautifully cast, excellently acted and magnificently written!

Essentially, you never know who is who or what on the internet, and there are probably FAR more trolls, nutcases, people pretending to be who/what they're not and fuckwads than there are of us who are honest about ourselves and try to actually communicate. Never forget that!



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

It was evident in how he talked, wrote, dressed, acted, his manner, his attitude.
Wow, what universe do YOU live in? Are you going to contend that if you attempted to push this point in court you wouldn't be remonstrated by the judge, at the very least? You know NOTHING about how Martin acted or his manner, much less his ATTITUDE!

Nope, there is no way you're an attorney.
Quote:

he was found to be in possession of twelve pieces of women' jewelry such as engagement rings, earings (sic), etc...all real and stolen
You are making a completely unfounded assumption, something a good lawyer would NEVER do:
Quote:

Martin was never charged or disciplined regarding the jewelry. Miami-Dade Police confirmed that it had been asked by school police to help identify the property taken from Martin’s backpack, however, the jewelry did not match any that had been reported stolen. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/29/why-hasnt-george-zimmerman-bee
n-arrested/
to
Quote:

Police have indicated that Mr. Martin was a suspect in several local burglaries.
Again you would have to show reliable cites: Googling "Trayvon Martin suspect in burglaries", there is absolutely NOTHING. The only thing I found was a story repeated on several websites about the Sanford Police Chief suspecting Martin of having stolen the skittles and iced tea, followed by
Quote:

Based on this alone as a former LEO it makes Martin a plausible suspect as far as burglary or crime of opportunity is concerned. I know that Zimmman’s defense team will gather all this information as well as part of their strategy to defense {sic} him. That combined with the taped report of Zimmman describing Martin’s activities, combined with the fact that there is no proof that Martin ever entered the 711 to buy candy, and that he had none on his body when police arrive completely change the story in Zimmerman’s favor. http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2012/04/martin-was-waking-around-looking
-in-other-homes-according-to-zimmermans-testimony
/

You know what's hysterical about this? It appears all over crazy websites as if it were fact, but it's actually a SATIRE:
Quote:

Free Wood Post: News That’s Almost Reliable published a satire piece, FOX NEWS: “Did Trayvon Steal the Candy and Tea?”. Like The Onion, Free Wood often takes current events and exaggerates a theme to explicitly mock it. Here, the mockery is directed at the people waging the smear campaigns against Trayvon Martin. Unfortunately, racist and right-wing organizations including Stormfront have picked up Free Wood’s piece and treated it as fact. This piece is SATIRE.
Quote:

Fox News anchors and hosts are beginning to ask fair and balanced questions about the Trayvon Martin tragedy, and today the nation’s most popular news source is reporting, “no receipt was found by investigators for the candy or the tea Martin was menacing at George Zimmerman when the neighborhood watchman was forced to defend himself.”

The revelation came this morning on Fox and Friends during an interview with Bill “Bull” Lee, who has temporarily stepped-down as Sanford Chief of Police in order to act as Zimmerman’s official spokesman. Lee told the cast of the popular morning show, “After we stripped the dead suspect and tested him for drug and alcohol use and then dug under his finger and toe nails for any incriminating DNA, we checked his blood-soaked clothes for any kind of evidence of wrong doing. All we found was 34 cents and a couple of baseball cards.”

“That’s it?” Gretchen Carlson asked dismayed. “Seems to me that something was obviously missing: why wasn’t there a receipt for the pop [sic] and candy?”

“We at the Sanford Police Department asked the exact same question, Gretchen,” Lee explained. “We concluded that the suspect must have stolen the candy and tea, and in my mind that bolstered Mr. Zimmerman’s self-defense claim. A criminal brandishing his stolen goods can be quite threatening when you’re following him in your SUV with a nine-millimeter, semi-auto handgun loaded with a full clip of hollow-point ammo.”

Carlson, in her classic journalistic style, stayed on the scent: “So were the baseball cards found on Martin of any value?” she asked. “Do we know if the family has produced a receipt for those?”

“To this point,” Lee answered, “the Martin family has refused to cooperate on that matter. However, I do know that Mr. Zimmerman believes that baseball cards were once stolen from him.”

This new line of investigation has echoed throughout the Fox News line-up. Bill O’Reilly stated, “Candy and tea and baseball cards, but no receipts? Liberals can’t explain that. New twists to this case are bound to continue to turn-up as Fox News investigates the real reality of what happened in Sanford.”

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/29/why-hasnt-george-zimmerman-bee
n-arrested/
are a lot of other things out there that you no doubt took for facts, but which are not. Some can be found at the same site, including:
Quote:

On March 25, Michelle Malkin’s right-wing website Twitchy ran a picture of George Zimmerman in a suit and tie next to what they claimed was a picture of Trayvon Martin. The picture of Zimmerman was real, but the picture of Martin was not.

Quote:

Recognize these two people? If you don’t, we’ll help you out. The man on the left is George Zimmerman, the man accused of murdering the boy on the right, Trayvon Martin. The mainstream media won’t show you these two photos because they convey a message that no one else wants to take into consideration.

Correction, 8:56 pm ET March 25, 2012: We made a mistake. The photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was shot by Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin family

The photo on the right above is of a black youngster also named Trayvon Martin, taken from the teenager's Facebook page, but this Trayvon Martin is still breathing, and he's a student at Myers Middle School in New York. The dead Trayvon Martin's home was Miami, where he attended Miami Carol City High School. Other photos from the living New York teenager’s page have been spread across the Internet as “proof” that somehow the dead Trayvon Martin was a thug, and that the photos in some way justify the murder.



http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/29/why-hasnt-george-zimmerman-bee
n-arrested/
]

There's your "gold teeth", "Hero"--you should check the FACTS before making assumptions. Next time you hear mention of "gold teeth" and "looked like a thug", remember this, and if you have any brains, check out any OTHER photos showing Trayvon looking like a "thug".

In other words, there is nothing to back up your assumptions, which would be laughed out of court, simple as that, and no REAL attorney would even make them.

The following is what has been widely circulated on the internet:

Quote:

Whether or not these images were shared out of ignorance, the results have been horrifying, but also revealing about a few ugly truths about race and public discourse in an Internet Age.

This picture was picked up and used on a number of smaller conservative blogs (which eventually removed the pictures and admitted their mistake), on a few white supremacist forums, and all over Facebook. The popular version of this image (shown above) came from a Facebook user named John David Lee Brown. His image had been shared over 300 times when I first saw it. Less than 24 hours later, it had been shared nearly 700 times. If I’m lucky, my post will get 1/20th as many shares as these racist, fake Trayvon pictures on Facebook.

If Facebook users have on average 100 friends, that means around 70,000 people were exposed to an image which deceptively claimed that the “hysterical Race Baiter” media has hidden the real Trayvon Martin from us and also implied that perhaps Zimmerman was justified in killing the boy, since he really was a thug!

70k people. And the worst part about it? Even if Mr. Brown removes the picture and admits his mistake, the vast majority of the people who saw and shared it will never know.

Some people were sick of all the media talk about racism. They suspected that Zimmerman was probably innocent. They saw an image of Trayvon on Facebook which “exposed” him as a pants-sagging, rebellious, probably violent black thug. The image confirmed their suspicions, so they clicked “Share” and the misinformation moved on to spread further racist stereotypes. http://www.christandpopculture.com/asides/citizenship-confusion-the-tr
ayvon-martin-gangsta-picture-that-the-media-doesnt-want-you-to-see/
]





NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 25, 2012 9:54 AM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Sorry guys, technically... Hero outranks us all on the Authority scale. He must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Case closed.

In a pig's eye. But you got a rush there for a moment, eh 'counselor'?



Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:20 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Personally I don't believe a thing Hero says unless links to credible websites are provided.

Now for the case, no matter what anyone's record was or is, only two people know that happened that day and one of them is dead. There is not a single piece of evidence that proves one side or the other. Zimmerman's injuries could have come from Martin attacking him, or Martin defending himself.

I think it will be very hard for the state to convict Zimmerman. I think in the end he will be acquitted, if he does not take a plea deal. Now do I think he is innocent? I simple do not know.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:42 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Personally I don't believe a thing Hero says unless links to credible websites are provided.


Why should I do all the work for you?

Get someone to show you how to use the internet. There are these things called "Google" and "Yahoo" (I don't make up the names...).

They have these things called search engines...and you can specify 'news' searches to avoid random websites like this one and search only news services such as local news stations, newspapers, etc. Pick out whichever ones you like...in this case you get decent coverage from other local and out of state papers and local news.

Now here is the hard part. Type in the words "Martin", "Twitter", and "record".

Enjoy.

H

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:30 PM

OONJERAH



Here's a favorable, detailed article about GZ.
George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting =>
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-zimm
ermanbre83o18h-20120425,0,3144447.story


"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend.
"It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for
the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun."

That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge
and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another
source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George
picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.

By June 2011, Zimmerman's attention had shifted from a loose pit bull to a
wave of robberies that rattled the community, called the Retreat at Twin Lakes.
The homeowners association asked him to launch a neighborhood watch, and
Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking
patrol - a violation of neighborhood watch guidelines but not a crime.

Few of his closest neighbors knew he carried a gun - until two months ago.
... ...

But a more nuanced portrait of Zimmerman has emerged from a Reuters investi-
gation into Zimmerman's past and a series of incidents in the community in the
months preceding the Martin shooting.

Based on extensive interviews with relatives, friends, neighbors, schoolmates
and co-workers of Zimmerman in two states, law enforcement officials, and
reviews of court documents and police reports, the story sheds new light on
the man at the center of one of the most controversial homicide cases in America. ...

Should I stop referring to him as "Creepy Guy"?


. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 26, 2012 3:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Why should I do all the work for you?
Kewl. In other words, you don't WANT to be believed, you just want to come here and spout whatever your opinion is and claim it's both fact and the definitive word on any subject, I get it. Ergo, I, too, will no longer believe anything you say unless you cite it. You've already proven quit conclusively that you have formed an opinion, based on who knows what, and feel that opinion should be accepted because you claim to be an attorney. You are no attorney. If a real lawyer came here and wanted to debate an issue, he would have first checked his facts then been quite willing to cite reliable references to back up his claims.

You are apparently a little man who wants to be viewed as someone with authority and who needs the approbation of people thinking you are a member of the bar. You have already been proven first, to be inaccurate--in several instances--second, to have called what is your opinion "fact", and third, to not behave or think like an actual lawyer. The choice of the handle "Hero" indicates your desire to be seen as someone somehow better than others. Your excuse is that WE should be responsible for verifying your claims. It doesn't work that way. What you write has no further validity here for me or anyone else who values the truth. You're a fake; I wonder what you really do, or if you even have a job?

Nick is more of a "lawyer" than you are, given he has stated the truth of the matter: Nobody can know for certain what happened that night, and the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what either of their "histories" are, they have no real relevance. Raptor is more of a lawyer than you, given he has stated repeatedly that, whatever our opinions, we should wait for the facts to come out at trial to make any judgments. I have put up material to show that much of what the public has come to believe about Trayvon came from irresponsible and/or fake "information"; whether Zimmerman is guilty or not is irrelevant to that; my purpose was to inform at least some people about what's been going on. Your purpose has been singly to state what kind of people Martin and Zimmerman are and that because of that, you have determined the guilt and innocence of the parties. Attorney, my ass.

Although we can not know who is who or what they do for a living, or even if they're male or female, on the internet, I am nonetheless totally disgusted when I DO discover someone is pretending to be what they are not, especially those who do so for the purpose of making themselves more relevant and worthy of respect.

Your suggestions for a "search" mean nothing, as Trayvon Martin's twitter account has already been proven to have been HACKED, in the first place. In the second, anything there is by no means ANY proof that he was what you claim he was. Third, it's already been shown that the news media picks up things which turn out to be false; there are websites devoted to ferreting out the truth of such things, and I cited a couple of them. It would be up to YOU to provide cites to show those are wrong; that's how a debate works, which any real solicitor would know full well.

The funniest thing of all about this? I did exactly what you recommended, just out of curiosity. Googling those three words, and clicking on "news", there is not a SINGLE thing about Trayvon Martin whatsoever. There are stories about Charles Taylor, the African Warlord, Rupert Murdoch, Rick Perry endorsing Romney, and even one on American Idol. But not a single thing on the Martin/Zimmerman story. So much for that.

End of story on "Hero", as far as I, and obviously others, are concerned.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 26, 2012 4:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thanks for that article, Oonj. Although it sheds no light on the case, it gives a fuller picture of Zimmerman. He actually sounds just like the impression I got of him on the stand. He looked like a deer in the headlights, like he thought he had done something right and couldn't understand why what had transpired was happening to him. It doesn't mean I think him guilty or innocent, it was just an impression I got of him, which from that article appears to be reasonably accurate.

There are only two things in the story I would argue are inaccurate. For one, twice it says the HOA ASKED him to be a neighborhood watch person. It's been shown repeatedly that they began a neighborhood watch program, asked for volunteers, and only George VOLUNTEERED. Second, they state "These assholes," he muttered in an aside, "they always get away." After much effort to decipher what George Zimmerman actually muttered in that instance, from "coon" to "cold" to finally "punk", at no time was it alleged that he said "assholes". I point those out merely for the sake of accuracy.

I can't find any equivalent information on Martin, and I searched for a while. I wish I could, just because it would give us more insight into him as well as Zimmerman. I did find where his father said Trayvon saved his life when he was only 9 years old, pulling him from a burning building ( http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/23/149206896/trayvon-marti
n-was-typical-teen-george-zimmerman-is-hard-to-categorize
).

There I also read that he wanted to fly or fix planes, struggled in chemistry, and loved to play video games.

I've found bits and pieces, but nobody seems to have wanted to write a fuller biography of him as they did of Zimmerman. The best, and really only one with fuller information on Martin, said this:
Quote:

Trayvon’s family and friends have consistently stated that he was a peaceful person. Kindhearted, even-tempered and thoughtful are the adjectives the New York Times reported that the late teen’s loved ones used to describe him. Trayvon’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, told New York Times columnist Charles Blow that Trayvon hadn’t had a physical confrontation with anyone since his preschool years. Moreover, Trayvon’s older brother Jahvaris Fulton—the person Trayvon fought with as 4-year-old—described his departed sibling to CNN as nonviolent.

Trayvon was by all accounts a caretaker. He spoon-fed his quadriplegic uncle, Ronald Fulton, when no nurse was on hand to do so. He also babysat his 3- and 7-year-old girl cousins, nicknamed the “bunnies.” He often baked cookies for them, his family told the Times. The night Trayvon was murdered, his father, Tracy Martin, was having dinner with fiancée Brandy Green. Trayvon was in Green’s home with her 14-year-old son, Chad. Before heading to the store, Trayvon asked the boy if he wanted anything. The answer? Skittles.

His email was filled with messages about the late teen’s interest in college and aeronautics. “A screenshot of Trayvon’s Gmail inbox our source provided us is heartbreaking,” Gawker writer Adrian Chen wrote. “Martin apparently used his Gmail account for his college search, and it’s filled with emails about upcoming SAT tests and scholarship applications. (‘Trayvon, now is the best time to take the SATs!’) One email included the results of a career aptitude test, our source said. It ‘talked about his interest in aeronautics and stuff.’” Both Trayvon’s mother and brother have remarked that he’d taken honors classes.

Like many teens, Trayvon had a series of hobbies and interests. He counted the edgy television show “South Park,” the music of Bob Marley and the athleticism of LeBron James among his favorites. He liked to play sports himself and typical teenage jaunts to the mall. He especially liked his mother’s everyman dish of hamburgers and French fries. Count brownies with lots of nuts as his guilty pleasure, his grandmother told the New York Times. He earned money by painting houses, washing cars and working Pee Wee football league games.

Trayvon’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, is an employee for Miami-Dade County’s housing agency. His father, Tracy Martin, is a truck driver. Fulton and Martin are now divorced. His brother, Jahvaris Fulton, 21, is a student at Florida International University. The lives Trayvon’s family members have led give every indication that the teenager would likewise attend college and pursue a career. http://racerelations.about.com/od/thelegalsystem/a/The-Real-Trayvon-Ma
rtin-Facts-About-The-Slain-Youths-Life.htm
the best I can find. Obviously at only 17, Martin hasn't GOT much history, but it was interesting that my search yielded so little. Even articles entitled things like "Biography: Trayvon Benjamin Martin (1995-2012) ( http://bazaardaily.com/tag/trayvon-martin-bio/) were almost exclusively made up of facts about the case, little about Martin himself.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 26, 2012 4:19 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Here's a favorable, detailed article about GZ.
George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting =>
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-zimm
ermanbre83o18h-20120425,0,3144447.story





Wow - if I were Zimmerman's attorney I'd read that article as my opening statement. It certainly goes to "wait until you know the whole story."
Especially when it covers possible motive, that there were a number of recent break-ins by "young black males" in his neighborhood (a black neighbor confirms that). Whatever the outcome, the article certainly helps put one in touch with a (as you say) favorable version of his state of mind and paints him as a pretty simple, even sad schlepp, who took on the role of watchman rather unselfishly. Is that the way it really was? Or is that just a differing angle meant to play to the Zimmerman audience that hasn't been catered to as much so as to broaden the market for additional ad revenue? Hard to say what the real inner motives of people are... this certainly suggests he thought he was doing the right thing.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 26, 2012 5:01 AM

CAVETROLL


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Guy with a gun goes after someone. That someone winds up shot dead. That's all that I need to know. Everything else is ghafla, since the hunter provided the original action which put all the other pieces into motion.


Congratulations! Your "logic" just condemned every cop who has ever fired a shot at a suspect.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 26, 2012 5:24 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Guy with a gun goes after someone. That someone winds up shot dead. That's all that I need to know. Everything else is ghafla, since the hunter provided the original action which put all the other pieces into motion.


Congratulations! Your "logic" just condemned every cop who has ever fired a shot at a suspect.



Typical wingnut horseshit. Always with the painfully strained false equivalence, over and over. An trained cop following a suspect and a dick with a gun looking to be a hero isn't quite the same to anyone with a brain. So, that obviously excepts you.

And by your "logic" it's okay to murder someone - as long as you stalk them and start a fist-fight first.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 26, 2012 5:32 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Personally I don't believe a thing Hero says unless links to credible websites are provided.


Why should I do all the work for you?

Get someone to show you how to use the internet. There are these things called "Google" and "Yahoo" (I don't make up the names...).

They have these things called search engines...and you can specify 'news' searches to avoid random websites like this one and search only news services such as local news stations, newspapers, etc. Pick out whichever ones you like...in this case you get decent coverage from other local and out of state papers and local news.

Now here is the hard part. Type in the words "Martin", "Twitter", and "record".

Enjoy.

H



Hero oince again proving to be the opposaite of his name. Get caught perpetuating several lies - ignore it and push on to another distraction. Asshole.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 26, 2012 8:38 AM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Asshole.


What? No f-bomb preceding that character description? You're a kinder man than I, Story.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 26, 2012 1:46 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Honestly, attorneys are known for their sliminess and their cherry picking of facts to get their desired out come, so I don't see why Hero can't be an attorney in real life. I still believe that he is. Upon the subject of pretending to be something one isn't online, I tried it once in order to gain some info I wouldn't have gleaned otherwise, or that I perceived I wouldn't have gained otherwise is more accurate. I did it with a few posts on a website and felt too guilty to keep doing it, this was years ago. I've never done it since.

But sometimes I wish I could because that would be way more interesting than being honest. I could say I'm this famous trad singer who runs a group home already and who is really Irish and who is actually from the Fae realm but is stuck in this body because of a banishment ...
Then again maybe that wouldn't work out so well. :)))

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 30, 2012 8:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


MACK- Whether the jury finds Zimmerman guilty or innocent depends on what he's charged with. Zimmerman is guilty of taking a life, of that we can be certain. Whether it was intentional (murder) or unintentional (manslaughter) or justified (self defense) is the question.

AFA "HERO" is concerned, he is a prosecuting attorney of a mid-sized midwestern city (I forget which one) who has already shown himself to be quite willing to be less-than-objective when it comes to deciding who to prosecute and on what charges. One of the slimiest things I recall him doing is attending the funeral of a military veteran (who he barely knew) to "offer his condolences" to the guy's hot wife. Ick. But he relishes throwing his weight around -small fish in an even smaller pond- giving breaks to veterans while throwing the book at a retarded 17-year-old, all on a pretty whimsical basis. Of all of the people here, he's one of the creepier ones.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 30, 2012 11:29 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
...giving breaks to veterans while throwing the book at a retarded 17-year-old, all on a pretty whimsical basis. Of all of the people here, he's one of the creepier ones.


I note for the record that I give breaks to active duty service members who are being deployed. Somehow I thought Afganistan or Iraq to be more sobering then a 3 day DUI school.

Also, I do not have the power to charge minors. That resides with the County's Juvenile Court Prosecutor.

I also don't use the word "retarded", alhtough I'm not sure what the "correct" term is. Generally if the person is harmless I call them "special" or "slow"...if they are a bad guy then its "nutjob"...but I'm no liberal so I could be wrong.

As for creepy...its subjective. I've always thought everyone has been a little creepy at one time or another. Its like the first time you see your little sister's friends all grown up and legal...you think both "hot" and "yuck" at the same time and then feel guilty. Felt even guiltier when I dated one...and a little creepy although I understand now that the age difference was not that extreme (four years) and she was way more mature then I am even now.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 30, 2012 2:09 PM

CHRISISALL

Down the centuries you have slurred the meaning of the words, WE THE PEOPLE...


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
she was way more mature then [than] I am even now.

A touch of introspective honesty... I may faint.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, May 1, 2012 5:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

pretty simple, even sad schlepp, who took on the role of watchman rather unselfishly
That's the impression I've been getting. I'm not sure if he took the role "unselfishly"; I think given his strong interest in becoming a cop (a judge? Wow), his motivation probably came partly from that.

As to their description of him as an insurance investigator, I thought he was unemployed at the time, and that's why he was considered "indigent". Confusing reports.

I don't think he's a bad guy, just, as you said, a schlepp. I still think the mentality in the area, as the police inaction (or "poor action" if you will) showed, and that played into Zimmerman thinking he was some kind of authority figure who could do whatever he wanted with impunity. I also think that would have been the casse, if things hadn't come to light.

In my opinion, we just don't need simple, even sad schlepps wandering around with guns who think they are some kind of authority figure. That's ripe for stuff like this to happen. The police department needs to have a major overhaul to change the attitude they are presenting to the populace, so people like Zimmerman don't feel they can act with impunity.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL

OUR SPONSORS