REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Bigfoot, Seriously ??!

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Saturday, September 17, 2016 14:28
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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 11:23 AM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

I don't know Les Stroud.



If you have any interest in wilderness survival, Les is well worth looking up. Unlike other similar shows, Les does not produce his with a team of support people and camera operators. He does it all by himself (even the theme music!), without a net to some extent. He's a survivalist so I'm sure he has a global cell phone just in case, but mostly it's just him foraging, building shelters and trying to make it for a week with what he can find.



I love the outdoors and have hiked parts of the Adirondacks and Catskills many times along with canoeing the Boundary Waters in Minnesota. Hell, I used to throw my canoe into the Hudson River all the time. I have always felt it is a good idea to learn even some of the most basic survival skills just in case.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 2:51 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Nice post. looked up the movie reference and don't recognize it. Not important.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 7:37 PM

OONJERAH


Near Reno, NV

Three boys encounter sasquatch in eroded terrain
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=5697


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 7:45 PM

MIKER

Once I found Serenity


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Near Reno, NV

Three boys encounter sasquatch in eroded terrain
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=5697


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.



Followed your link. Most of us go in and out of the woods all our lives and never see big foot. The story starts out with a guy explaining how he has run into big foot in three different states. One that doesn't even have any trees. I could be wrong about that. But hey it's funny. Wow, talk about dumb luck huh?

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Wednesday, May 7, 2014 7:59 PM

OONJERAH



^^ OK. I am not one of the eager combatants on FFF.

Perhaps you intend to offend everyone in this community
to satisfy a need for constant attention ... sad.

Or, you could try Mauna, to see if you can stand yourself.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:40 PM

OONJERAH



Bigfoot Hair Samples Mostly From Bears, Wolves
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/bigfoot-hair-samples-bears-
wolves-24389802


"The study was published online Wednesday in the journal, Proceedings
of the Royal Society B."
======================

Oonj: I chose this^ article on the results of the Oxford-Lausanne Collateral
Hominid Project, because it is low on snark. While quite a few reporters
claim the study has debunked Bigfoot. Dr. Sykes says, Not at all.

The Yeti will also be covered in a book, due out in Sept?, "The Yeti
Enigma" by Dr. Bryan Sykes for the public.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:52 PM

THGRRI


While you can never prove they have never existed. Time and no prof of their existence to date, narrows the probability that anything like bigfoot ever existed. Especially in our century.

si shen



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Monday, July 7, 2014 1:34 AM

OONJERAH


Bob Gimlin Interview!!! on Bigfoot Forums (new, this year)
http://bigfootforums.blogspot.com/2014/04/bob-gimlin-interview.html

Some of you may know that Bob Gimlin was "riding shotgun" for Roger
Patterson that day in 1967 when they got the "Patty film."

Bob's reaction when he saw Patty: "There's a great big thing and they
really do exist. ... All doubt is gone..."



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

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Monday, July 7, 2014 11:15 AM

THGRRI


Yeah, I don't think so.

si shen



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Monday, July 7, 2014 12:10 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yeah, I don't think so.

si shen





The first rule of skeptics in threads like these, we do not talk about our skepticism.

No really, there's a reason I basically started avoiding these threads like the plague. So many easily avoidable arguments that no side could ever convince the other. The time I wasted was incalculable.

Let them be happy and let them believe what they want, it works out a lot better in terms of inter-relation with minimal effect on the scientific ratio of society in general due to the inclinations of the personalities involved.

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Monday, July 7, 2014 12:23 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Yeah, I don't think so.

si shen





The first rule of skeptics in threads like these, we do not talk about our skepticism.

No really, there's a reason I basically started avoiding these threads like the plague. So many easily avoidable arguments that no side could ever convince the other. The time I wasted was incalculable.

Let them be happy and let them believe what they want, it works out a lot better in terms of inter-relation with minimal effect on the scientific ratio of society in general due to the inclinations of the personalities involved.



My intention was not to pick a fight but instead just post my thinking and vote, yeah or nay on the topic. I don't understand why someone can post something as a possibility and I can't weight in on the probability.

I will however take your suggestion into consideration.

si shen



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Monday, July 7, 2014 2:28 PM

OONJERAH



What Byte says is true.

The yay-or-nay Bigfoot argument and the yay-or-nay Patty argument
have gone on for years, repetitious, wasting gigabytes of bandwidth,
and neither side ever budging an inch.

Quote Pizmobeach from page 1: "Cavetroll - your description is exactly
what I was referring to when I said that what makes the impossible idea
of Bigfoot existing (given the preponderance of the lack of evidence)
seem possible, are the personal accounts by people who appear to have
all their marbles. It's hard to explain their stories in any other way and
it's pretty easy to tell when someone feels genuine about what they saw -
there's a certain kind of fear that's almost impossible to fake."

To avoid repeats, see this thread Pg 2, post 4, Bill Munns. Stick with
Munns, you'll get all the proof there is that Patty is real. But Munns hasn't
been able to convince any dedicated skeptic. Takes us back to what
Byte said. & what Joe K. said, "You only believe what you want to
believe."

Also on pg 2, find 1975 Army Corps of Engineers.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

You only believe what you want to believe.

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Monday, July 7, 2014 2:55 PM

THGRRI


Looking back I found this;

Quote:


"One of the saddest things I have found in my internet forum experience is how
powerfully the 'win at all cost' mentality has poisoned most discussions, and how
few people actually feel that true understanding is the most valuable prize to win.

So these 'win at all cost' people refuse the most fundamental method of trying to
resolve disputes, and once they do, the dialogues just end up as verbal shoving
matches with no real winner."……. OONJERAH



Because of the subject matter and my beliefs about the subject I would not have perused this matter much further anyway. However had I not entered this thread I would have missed the nugget above. It is a reminder that facts should rule the thread and not Ideologies nor un-researched opinions (unless stated as such). Pity that’s not the case.

Good post


si shen



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Monday, July 7, 2014 4:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
While you can never prove they have never existed. Time and no prof of their existence to date, narrows the probability that anything like bigfoot ever existed. Especially in our century.


Have you heard that evil rumor going 'round that the Earth is not actually flat? Who comes up with these insane ideas, there will never be any proof?

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Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Richard J. Dewhurst - Hour 1 - The Ancient Giants Who Ruled America
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2014/01/RIR-140127.php

It says Dewhurst is an emmy award winning writer.
Fine. For what it's worth.

The Ancient Giants Who Ruled America, the book, by Richard J. Dewhurst.
It's pretty popular right now. A friend of mine has a copy and isn't
pleased with it. Says it is hard to follow & has numerous printing
errors. A rush job?

1848, Abe Lincoln's speech at Niagara Falls, excerpt: "The eyes of
that species of extinct giants, whose bones fill the mounds of America,
have gazed on Niagara, as ours do now."

Those giants were real, all right. Their existence isn't even controversial.
And I believe their remains are found world wide. They are perfectly
human as us; our USA variety are about 9 - 10' tall & white.

Bigfoot ... is different.

A Wiki page: Mound Builders, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_Builders

ETA: The Book, btw, has an added attraction: A conspiracy theory on
the supression of information about the giants. ... And here, I always
figured they are little known, simply because so few of us have any
interest in history, let alone archaeology!


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.


I am having some difficulty finding references for an anecdote which is being investigated by a zoologist. Don't recall if it was Richard Freeman or Karl Shuker, or another.
Known as "Wildman of" something like Siberia or Russia, a female non-adult was captured, and held captive by a ruler of the area. Visitors who completed some challenge were allowed to mate with the captive, and offspring were produced, who were integrated into the community.
I'll post some of what I found of the story, but have not found the book or other published info, so far.


-----------
from wikipedia:
A wildwoman named Zana is said to have lived in the isolated mountain village of T'khina fifty miles from Sukhumi in Abkhazia in the Caucasus; some have speculated she may have been an Almas, but the evidence indicates that she was a human.

Captured in the mountains in 1850, she was at first violent towards her captors but soon became domesticated and assisted with simple household chores. Zana is said to have had sexual relations with a man of the village named Edgi Genaba, and gave birth to a number of children of apparently normal human appearance. Several of these children, however, died in infancy.[9]

The father, meanwhile, gave away four of the surviving children to local families. The two boys, Dzhanda and Khwit Genaba (born 1878 and 1884), and the two girls, Kodzhanar and Gamasa Genaba (born 1880 and 1882), were assimilated into normal society, married, and had families of their own. Zana herself died in 1890. The skull of Khwit (also spelled Kvit) is still extant, and was examined by Dr. Grover Krantz in the early 1990s. He pronounced it to be entirely modern, with no Neanderthal features at all. Another account by Russian anthropologist M.A.Kolodieva described the skull as significantly different from the normal males from Abkhazia: the skull "approaches closest the Neolithic Vovnigi II skulls of the fossil series".[9]
--------------

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/creatures/zana2.htm

note the picture of offspring Kwhit:
http://wickramshingle.hubpages.com/hub/The-Almas


The anecdotes don't seem to be in dispute, the captive was apparently well-known about. And she was capable of reproducing with humans, and the DNA chain continues in the population today.

These are the first I've heard of credible anecdotes, with DNA evidence available. So thought I would share.

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Thursday, April 9, 2015 5:56 PM

THGRRI


Finally, irrefutable proof.


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Thursday, April 9, 2015 7:48 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Finally, irrefutable proof.


Did somebody claim irrefutable proof, nitwit?
This at least provides a lead to investigate, a credible source to follow and examine. Such anecdotes seem rare on this subject.

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Saturday, April 11, 2015 11:46 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Finally, irrefutable proof.


Did somebody claim irrefutable proof, nitwit?
This at least provides a lead to investigate, a credible source to follow and examine. Such anecdotes seem rare on this subject.


Then again, how many times have we seen portrait photos of Sasquatch offspring like that?
At least a thread to investigate with.

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Thursday, April 23, 2015 7:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


For those thinking all forms of life have been found and identified, I suppose you think this video was faked:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3048418/Chilling-video-mystery
-creature-chewing-steel-cage.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

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Thursday, June 4, 2015 3:28 AM

OONJERAH



Dr. Bryan Sykes' book "The Yeti Enigma" has changed.

Published in April this year:
Dr. Bryan Sykes' book "The Nature of the Beast: The first genetic
evidence on the survival of apemen, yeti, bigfoot and other mysterious
creatures into modern times" is out.

It begins like this: "The following account is taken from my field
notes of Sunday 18 March 2013. The events I am about to describe
defy any rational explanation."

You can read the beginning chapters on Amazon. I read part of Ch 1
and was underwhelmed.

Much of the book, I'm told, is reprints of the old, legendary,
encounters with Bigfoot.

The last chapter(s) is about Zana. Does he show her as a true
relict hominid or as 100% homo sapiens? I don't know yet. I intend
to read the book when I can.

Patrick aka Leon, no last name, was said to be a Human/Bigfoot
Hybrid. He died about 1930 to the best of my recollection.
Rhettman Mullis (Bigfootology) was trying to get samples from
Patrick's daughters to be tested by Dr. Sykes. Did he succeed?
I don't know; he seems to have gone underground.

As with most things Bigfoot, it's hard to get a grip.

Yeti: Dr. Syke's Yeti samples came out as bear; not an apeman
at all. Yeti's tracks are famous, & look to me sort of round,
perhaps bear-like. People who have seen Yeti, mostly sherpas,
I gather, say it's not a bear. Or did I misunderstand?

Zana was what the Russians call an Almas or Almasty. I wonder
what her tracks looked like.

China's Yeren, Australia's Yowie, Indonesia's Orang Pendek : Maybe
there's a chance that they all exist, are not the same creature,
all relict homonids.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Thursday, June 4, 2015 9:56 AM

THGRRI


Keep us informed. I am wondering if any DNA or skeletal remains are claimed to exist.


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Thursday, June 4, 2015 8:06 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Dr. Bryan Sykes' book "The Yeti Enigma" has changed.

Published in April this year:
Dr. Bryan Sykes' book "The Nature of the Beast: The first genetic
evidence on the survival of apemen, yeti, bigfoot and other mysterious
creatures into modern times" is out.

It begins like this: "The following account is taken from my field
notes of Sunday 18 March 2013. The events I am about to describe
defy any rational explanation."

You can read the beginning chapters on Amazon. I read part of Ch 1
and was underwhelmed.

Much of the book, I'm told, is reprints of the old, legendary,
encounters with Bigfoot.

The last chapter(s) is about Zana. Does he show her as a true
relict hominid or as 100% homo sapiens? I don't know yet. I intend
to read the book when I can.

Patrick aka Leon, no last name, was said to be a Human/Bigfoot
Hybrid. He died about 1930 to the best of my recollection.
Rhettman Mullis (Bigfootology) was trying to get samples from
Patrick's daughters to be tested by Dr. Sykes. Did he succeed?
I don't know; he seems to have gone underground.

As with most things Bigfoot, it's hard to get a grip.

Yeti: Dr. Syke's Yeti samples came out as bear; not an apeman
at all. Yeti's tracks are famous, & look to me sort of round,
perhaps bear-like. People who have seen Yeti, mostly sherpas,
I gather, say it's not a bear. Or did I misunderstand?

Zana was what the Russians call an Almas or Almasty. I wonder
what her tracks looked like.

China's Yeren, Australia's Yowie, Indonesia's Orang Pendek : Maybe
there's a chance that they all exist, are not the same creature,
all relict homonids.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.


The title of the book changed? Or something else?

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Friday, June 5, 2015 12:58 AM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Keep us informed. I am wondering if any DNA or skeletal remains are claimed to exist.



The BF forum that I visit, several times I've seen it said that there are
no Bigfoot fossils OR known remains. Exception: look up Snellgrove Lake,
nail board. http://www.alamas.ru/eng/publicat/DNA_of_Bigfoot_e.htm

And yet, there are more than 2 dozen stories, over many decades, of
someone shooting a Bigfoot dead.

Currently, there are a few guys, experienced woodsmen, who indicate
that hunting Bigfoot is no problem for them, as they "know where the
boogers live."
Yet, no new pictures, no bodies, body parts or bones.
Such items would be in big demand by collectors. Perhaps there is a
black market going.

There is a well known group that knows where they are and fully intends
to bag one for science. They've been at it for years.
The Sasquatch throw rocks at their hunting lodge.
The hunters shoot at the Sasquatch. Hit one once. There was blood on
a rock. ... If tested for DNA, it came back human.

Many of the best, "for sure I got Bigfoot this time!" samples have come
back ... homo sapiens.
.
.
Would shooting Bigfoot be homocide?



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Friday, June 5, 2015 9:15 AM

THGRRI


Apparently it's a legend that will never die.






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Friday, June 5, 2015 1:53 PM

OONJERAH



Title: I believe "The Nature of the Beast" is the 3rd or 4th title.

As for what is between the covers, I don't know yet.

Like any good author who's been living on a university professor's
stipend for many years, Dr. Sykes, already a very successful author,
would like to sell more books.

The Bigfoot Files:
There were 3 TV specials produced by Icon Films, which I gather
helped to fund Sykes' search for relict hominids. As per formula, the
films are teasers, inconclusive.

1. Yeti : We got a bear.
2. BigFoot : Fools hunt the mythical beast.
3. Almasty : Zana, not Neanderthal but sub Saharan African.
Sub Saharan African means nothing to me, but OK.

Now the book is out to tell us more about Zana, the almasty. At least,
I hope there's more.
If her DNA is essentially the same as ours, then all we know about
that relict hominid is from the legend: her odd appearance, great
strength, & inability to speak.

Did Dr. Sykes hold out on the yeti? Will he tell more in a second book?
Yeti, the hominid?

Bigfoot. Is BF an undocumented human race? Did Mullis get samples
from Patrick's descendants?
Relict hominid book 3?

I think not. The bulk of his current book is said to be Bigfoot tales.
"The Nature of the Beast" is about Zana & Bigfoot; Yeti is a bear,
that is All.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Friday, June 5, 2015 5:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Keep us informed. I am wondering if any DNA or skeletal remains are claimed to exist.



The BF forum that I visit, several times I've seen it said that there are
no Bigfoot fossils OR known remains. Exception: look up Snellgrove Lake,
nail board. http://www.alamas.ru/eng/publicat/DNA_of_Bigfoot_e.htm

And yet, there are more than 2 dozen stories, over many decades, of
someone shooting a Bigfoot dead.

Currently, there are a few guys, experienced woodsmen, who indicate
that hunting Bigfoot is no problem for them, as they "know where the
boogers live."
Yet, no new pictures, no bodies, body parts or bones.
Such items would be in big demand by collectors. Perhaps there is a
black market going.

There is a well known group that knows where they are and fully intends
to bag one for science. They've been at it for years.
The Sasquatch throw rocks at their hunting lodge.
The hunters shoot at the Sasquatch. Hit one once. There was blood on
a rock. ... If tested for DNA, it came back human.

Many of the best, "for sure I got Bigfoot this time!" samples have come
back ... homo sapiens.
.
.
Would shooting Bigfoot be homocide?




Did slave owners consider shooting a slave to be homicide?

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Friday, June 5, 2015 7:19 PM

OONJERAH


Quote:


Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Did slave owners consider shooting a slave to be homicide?



You mean in pre-Civil War USA?

I don't know.

US History in HS, 1958 ... we had a real sharp history teacher; but
I don't recall at all learning about the US slave era in school.
I think most of my impressions of it are from novels and movies ...
the best remembered movie: Disney's Song of the South.

What did slave owners think?



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.

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Saturday, September 17, 2016 2:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Richard J. Dewhurst - Hour 1 - The Ancient Giants Who Ruled America
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2014/01/RIR-140127.php

It says Dewhurst is an emmy award winning writer.
Fine. For what it's worth.

The Ancient Giants Who Ruled America, the book, by Richard J. Dewhurst.
It's pretty popular right now. A friend of mine has a copy and isn't
pleased with it. Says it is hard to follow & has numerous printing
errors. A rush job?

1848, Abe Lincoln's speech at Niagara Falls, excerpt: "The eyes of
that species of extinct giants, whose bones fill the mounds of America,
have gazed on Niagara, as ours do now."

Those giants were real, all right. Their existence isn't even controversial.
And I believe their remains are found world wide. They are perfectly
human as us; our USA variety are about 9 - 10' tall & white.

Bigfoot ... is different.

A Wiki page: Mound Builders, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_Builders

ETA: The Book, btw, has an added attraction: A conspiracy theory on
the supression of information about the giants. ... And here, I always
figured they are little known, simply because so few of us have any
interest in history, let alone archaeology!


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

I've given up looking for the meaning of life. Now all I want is a cookie.


I am having some difficulty finding references for an anecdote which is being investigated by a zoologist. Don't recall if it was Richard Freeman or Karl Shuker, or another.
Known as "Wildman of" something like Siberia or Russia, a female non-adult was captured, and held captive by a ruler of the area. Visitors who completed some challenge were allowed to mate with the captive, and offspring were produced, who were integrated into the community.
I'll post some of what I found of the story, but have not found the book or other published info, so far.


-----------
from wikipedia:
A wildwoman named Zana is said to have lived in the isolated mountain village of T'khina fifty miles from Sukhumi in Abkhazia in the Caucasus; some have speculated she may have been an Almas, but the evidence indicates that she was a human.

Captured in the mountains in 1850, she was at first violent towards her captors but soon became domesticated and assisted with simple household chores. Zana is said to have had sexual relations with a man of the village named Edgi Genaba, and gave birth to a number of children of apparently normal human appearance. Several of these children, however, died in infancy.[9]

The father, meanwhile, gave away four of the surviving children to local families. The two boys, Dzhanda and Khwit Genaba (born 1878 and 1884), and the two girls, Kodzhanar and Gamasa Genaba (born 1880 and 1882), were assimilated into normal society, married, and had families of their own. Zana herself died in 1890. The skull of Khwit (also spelled Kvit) is still extant, and was examined by Dr. Grover Krantz in the early 1990s. He pronounced it to be entirely modern, with no Neanderthal features at all. Another account by Russian anthropologist M.A.Kolodieva described the skull as significantly different from the normal males from Abkhazia: the skull "approaches closest the Neolithic Vovnigi II skulls of the fossil series".[9]
--------------

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/creatures/zana2.htm

note the picture of offspring Kwhit:
http://wickramshingle.hubpages.com/hub/The-Almas


The anecdotes don't seem to be in dispute, the captive was apparently well-known about. And she was capable of reproducing with humans, and the DNA chain continues in the population today.

These are the first I've heard of credible anecdotes, with DNA evidence available. So thought I would share.


More about this posted in this thread around January 2016:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=11&tid=51193&p=2

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Saturday, September 17, 2016 2:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote:


Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Keep us informed. I am wondering if any DNA or skeletal remains are claimed to exist.



The BF forum that I visit, several times I've seen it said that there are
no Bigfoot fossils OR known remains. Exception: look up Snellgrove Lake, nail board. http://www.alamas.ru/eng/publicat/DNA_of_Bigfoot_e.htm

And yet, there are more than 2 dozen stories, over many decades, of someone shooting a Bigfoot dead.

Currently, there are a few guys, experienced woodsmen, who indicate that hunting Bigfoot is no problem for them, as they "know where the
boogers live."
Yet, no new pictures, no bodies, body parts or bones.
Such items would be in big demand by collectors. Perhaps there is a black market going.

There is a well known group that knows where they are and fully intends to bag one for science. They've been at it for years.
The Sasquatch throw rocks at their hunting lodge.
The hunters shoot at the Sasquatch. Hit one once. There was blood on a rock. ... If tested for DNA, it came back human.

Many of the best, "for sure I got Bigfoot this time!" samples have come back ... homo sapiens.
.
.
Would shooting Bigfoot be homocide?



Did slave owners consider shooting a slave to be homicide?


You mean in pre-Civil War USA?

I don't know.

What did slave owners think?



Slave owners, all being Democrats, considered slaves to be property, and mostly (if Black) to be not "human" or "less human" or somesuch. This killing would be akin to shooting your dog or cat. That was my point.

Slave owners and other Democrats also avidly killed Republicans (who did not own slaves, and were anti-slavery, and pro-emancipation) and free men who had been slaves or could be enslaved, both before and after the Civil War, and whether the Democrat was wearing their Ku Klux Klan wardrobe or not.
The first assassination of a sitting U.S. Congressman was a Republican shot in the back by a Ku Klux Klan leader and elected Democrat.


Also, when using the term "hunter" you can also shoot humans without serious repercussion, even when they are women in their own backyard of their residence.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20113512,00.html

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