REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

“you can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas or go down to the Super Bowl on the taxpayer’s dime.” - Barack Obama

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, April 16, 2012 07:16
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2365
PAGE 2 of 2

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 3:14 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Speaking of spending...

Quote:



Officials noted that Panetta is required to travel by military aircraft for purposes of security and to have access to secure communications, a practice instituted by the George W. Bush administration in 2001.









Now find where the Bush Administration required Panetta to fly home 2/3 of the weekends since he became Secretary of Defense.

You can find, however, that the Obama Administration agreed to Panetta's requirement that he be able to do so.

"When he took the job, Panetta made it clear that he would continue to return home to his family on the weekends as he had done as CIA director for the previous two years, and as a member of Congress from 1977-1993."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120405/D9TV27HG1.html


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 6:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The precedence was set up by the Bush Administration. That's not "blaming", that's just the facts.
Quote:

A White House official has said that in 2004, the conference cost $93,000; in 2006, the cost had ballooned to $323,855; and by 2008, it hit $655,025. http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/04/09/obama-points-finger-at-bush-for-g
sa-scandal-lurita-doan-administrator-under-bush-blasts-back/
were the Republicans to scream and holler back then? No wonder they thought they could get away with it!! It's totally wrong and completely insane and I'm damned glad it came to light. What a bunch of crazy idiots!

Jon Stewart did a hysterical job of covering it. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-5-2012/gsa-holes I can't believe the commemorative coins and...YEARBOOKS?!?! It's insane...as are so many aspects of it. Damned government. The bullshit coming out from the previous GSA is as much "spin" as the Obama Administration "blaming" the Bush Admiistration.
Quote:

Lurita Doan, the GSA administrator under President George W. Bush, spoke out on America Live, saying, “It’s just so clear that the Obama administration is in crisis mode.” Doan said, “First, I question the numbers and I’d love to see a line item breakdown of what’s in each of these numbers. I’m not going to just trust them out of the gate." http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/04/09/obama-points-finger-at-bush-for-g
sa-scandal-lurita-doan-administrator-under-bush-blasts-back/
, of course. At least they had the decency to quote the earlier numbers, for which I give them credit. However, I love that she says
Quote:

For Obama to try to blame this poor management, poor leadership on the Bush administration is absolutely abominable. He should be so ashamed of himself.” http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/04/09/obama-points-finger-at-bush-for-g
sa-scandal-lurita-doan-administrator-under-bush-blasts-back/
where was the " poor management, poor leadership" during the Bush Administration? It's just silly.

Both are wrong; the GSA is responsible and are the ones who should be brought up by the short hairs. And they are being:
Quote:

According to an administration source who spoke on condition of not being identified, Foley became the eighth member of the GSA staff to be fired, placed on leave or otherwise removed from their job because of the controversy. http://townhall.com/columnists/taddehaven/2012/04/07/general_services_
administration_let_the_taxpayers_eat_cake
from both sides of the aisle have been quick to express their outrage. In particular, Republicans are anxious to paint the affair as emblematic of the Obama administration’s fiscal profligacy.

Perhaps it is.

However, the scandalous abuse of taxpayer money by the GSA isn’t a partisan issue.

First, Martha Johnson is the second GSA chief to resign in the last four years. George W. Bush’s GSA chief Lurita Doan resigned in 2008 after a “tumultuous tenure in which she was accused of trying to award work to a friend and misusing her authority for political ends.”

Second, bureaucrats have been wasting taxpayer money on conferences for years under the watch of both parties. For example, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) released a report in 2008 that found that federal agencies had spent over $2 billion on conferences from 2000-2006. http://townhall.com/columnists/taddehaven/2012/04/07/general_services_
administration_let_the_taxpayers_eat_cake
a REPUBLICAN, by the way; I assume you trust him?

Why don't they look closer at what their own people spend and go after them, rather than wanting to cut programs for women and the poor? This sort of thing needs to be investigated a LOT more, not left until it comes out. At least this time it DID come out:
Quote:

The House committee on Oversight and Government Reform circulated the video, which was uncovered by in an investigation by GSA's Inspector General. http://gov.aol.com/2012/04/10/another-gsa-official-on-leave-in-wake-of
-spending-scandal/
wish it had come out under Bush; surely they'd have been more careful. What they did shows a complete disregard for...well, sanity!...and the belief that they could get away with whatever they wanted. Bush isn't to "blame" any more than Obama, but both ADMINISTRATIONS are!

It's both parties; it's many parts of the government; nobody is exampt from this bullshit. This is just one of the most absurd examples...and it's pretty damned absurd!



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 6:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As to the Panetta flights home, everyone wants to go home, but no President ever did as much as Bush:
Quote:

He was the most expensive vacation president in US history. Not only did Bush spend more days on vacation than any other president, but he used Air Force One more often while on vacation than any other president.

During Bush’s two terms, the cost of operating Air Force One ranged from $56,800 to $68,000 an hour. Bush used Air Force One 77 times to go to his ranch in Crawford, TX. Using the low end cost of $56,800, Media Matters calculated that each trip to Crawford cost taxpayers $259,687 each time, and $20 million total for Bush’s ranch flights.

If cost of the flight was the only expense involved to taxpayers Bush’s vacations would still seem rather economical, but there is more, much more. Unlike the Obama’s $4 million Christmas vacation price tag, which includes the cost of everything from transportation to accommodations for the First Family, the White House staff, and the White House press corps, Bush’s numbers only include the cost of flying the president to Crawford. The cost of transporting and accommodating staff, media, friends and family is not included in Bush’s vacation numbers.

In response to growing criticism that the president was on vacation too much, the Bush administration adopted the Rovian tactic of scheduling, “work events,” while the president was in Crawford so that they could claim that President Bush’s vacations were working vacations. During his infamous pre-9/11 August vacation, the AP reported that, “Using the ranch as a base, he will promote White House initiatives in Rocky Mountain National Park, Denver, Albuquerque, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and San Antonio.”

Bush’s “working vacations” cost taxpayers a small fortune in travel costs because President Bush and his staff would make day trips on Air Force One all across the country in order to counter the criticism that he was on vacation too often. http://www.politicususa.com/cost-obama-christmas-vacation-bush/ can play tit for tat all day, it's completely as irrelevant.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 6:54 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Bush used Air Force One 77 times to go to his ranch in Crawford, TX.



77 times in eight years vs. 37 times in 9 months. So if Panetta stays as Sec. of Defense for just four years, he'll make around 200 flights. So at $30,000 a flight after his reembursement at commercial rates, that'd be around $6 million.

Regardless of what Bush did or didn't do, that's still a pretty good perk for Panetta.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:18 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
http://www.politicususa.com/cost-obama-christmas-vacation-bush/

You can play tit for tat all day, it's completely as irrelevant.



Thinking about this article some more, you do realize that, all the liberal bluster aside, it's pretty much saying that Obama spent 25% of the cost of all of Bush's 77 vacation trips home over eight years... in JUST ONE trip.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:32 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by GEEZER:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Bush used Air Force One 77 times to go to his ranch in Crawford, TX.



77 times in eight years vs. 37 times in 9 months. So if Panetta stays as Sec. of Defense for just four years, he'll make around 200 flights. So at $30,000 a flight after his reembursement at commercial rates, that'd be around $6 million.

Regardless of what Bush did or didn't do, that's still a pretty good perk for Panetta.





It's no doubt a pretty good perk for anyone who is part of the President's Cabinet.

Is it the number of flights, or the cost, which has you more upset? Because you bring up the number of flights Bush took to Crawford aboard AF1 as being less than Panetta's current rate of travel, but then you seem to want to bring the dollar figures into it, citing "around $6 million" as a scandalous figure.

So from Niki's source above:

Quote:

During Bush’s two terms, the cost of operating Air Force One ranged from $56,800 to $68,000 an hour. Bush used Air Force One 77 times to go to his ranch in Crawford, TX. Using the low end cost of $56,800, Media Matters calculated that each trip to Crawford cost taxpayers $259,687 each time, and $20 million total for Bush’s ranch flights.


President Bush bilked the taxpayers more than $20,000,000 (they were using the low-end figures, remember) for his personal taxi rides to his house. And I don't recall you saying a peep in protest about it.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by GEEZER:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
http://www.politicususa.com/cost-obama-christmas-vacation-bush/ can play tit for tat all day, it's completely as irrelevant.



Thinking about this article some more, you do realize that, all the liberal bluster aside, it's pretty much saying that Obama spent 25% of the cost of all of Bush's 77 vacation trips home over eight years... in JUST ONE trip.




Well, not really. You're either obfuscating on purpose, or you need new reading glasses.

Quote:

If cost of the flight was the only expense involved to taxpayers Bush’s vacations would still seem rather economical, but there is more, much more. Unlike the Obama’s $4 million Christmas vacation price tag, which includes the cost of everything from transportation to accommodations for the First Family, the White House staff, and the White House press corps, Bush’s numbers only include the cost of flying the president to Crawford. The cost of transporting and accommodating staff, media, friends and family is not included in Bush’s vacation numbers.



1) Not 25%. Not quite 20%. Math > Geezer.

2) You're not even comparing apples to oranges on this one. You're comparing apples to bears. You lay out the TOTAL expense report for the Obama Xmas trip, and stack it up against just the TRAVEL expense of the Bush trips, completely leaving out (on purpose, apparently) all of the other expenses.

That's like me budgeting my whole year's operating budget based just on what I spend for gas for my commute. Hell, it's no wonder you idiots on the right believed that lie about Iraq only costing us $17 billion - You can't do simple basic math!




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:03 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Speaking of spending...

Officials noted that Panetta is required to travel by military aircraft for purposes of security and to have access to secure communications, a practice instituted by the George W. Bush administration in 2001.






So if the Bush administration instituted the policy it must be carried on by the Obama administration? Is that what you are implying Kwicko? Or did you not think your dig at Geezer through all the way?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:14 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Is it the number of flights, or the cost, which has you more upset?



It's that no one in the Obama administration seems to think that it'd be a good idea to maybe spend a bit less of the Defense budget on Panetta's weekends.

The money Bush spent is gone.

The money Panetta hasn't spent yet doesn't seem to be of concern to Obama, or you.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:30 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
1) Not 25%. Not quite 20%. Math > Geezer.



Okay, Obama's spent around 20% of what Bush spent in eight years on one trip. That's so much better.

Quote:

You lay out the TOTAL expense report for the Obama Xmas trip, and stack it up against just the TRAVEL expense of the Bush trips, completely leaving out (on purpose, apparently) all of the other expenses.


The Bush trips to Crawford wouldn't have near as many "other" expenses. He had a home there that had a housekeeping staff already in place, so that didn't cost what accomodotions and staffing would cost Obama in Hawaii. He had lots of room in Air Force 1 for the government staff he needed to take if he were on a working trip, so that'd be no additional cost. I kind'a doubt he was flying more friends and media than could fit in Air Force 1 on many trips. Any comunications equipment he needed was a one-time expense.

Even assuming that the "other expenses" would double Bush's travel costs (which isn't likely), Obama still spent around 10% of Bush's total travel budget for 77 trips in eight years on ONE trip.

Oink.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 6:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Speaking of spending...

Officials noted that Panetta is required to travel by military aircraft for purposes of security and to have access to secure communications, a practice instituted by the George W. Bush administration in 2001.






So if the Bush administration instituted the policy it must be carried on by the Obama administration? Is that what you are implying Kwicko? Or did you not think your dig at Geezer through all the way?




Are you implying that we should get out of Afghanistan today and roll back the Bush tax cuts tomorrow? After all, aren't those "Bush policies" that we were told we had to carry forward?

Didn't really think that one through all the way, did ya?






"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 6:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by GEEZER:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Is it the number of flights, or the cost, which has you more upset?



It's that no one in the Obama administration seems to think that it'd be a good idea to maybe spend a bit less of the Defense budget on Panetta's weekends.

The money Bush spent is gone.

The money Panetta hasn't spent yet doesn't seem to be of concern to Obama, or you.




Hey, introduce a bill that will require all Congresspersons, cabinet officials, and other federal government employees in D.C. to live in the area, and I'll be glad to support it. Bring up a bill that requires all such people to pay their own travel expenses out of pocket, and I'm right there with you.

In fact, maybe we should simply do away with ALL benefits, pensions, and perks for federal employees. That would include you, of course. We're still paying you money for nothing, aren't we?

But what you're doing is bitching about something a Democrat does that you would NEVER have bitched about when a Republican was doing it. As evidence, I simply note that you never brought it up before.

So it's quite clear that you don't have a problem with profligate spending; you just have a problem with it when it's done by a Democrat. You'll actively defend it when your beloved GOP does it.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 6:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Posted by Geezer:

I kind'a doubt [Bush] was flying more friends and media than could fit in Air Force 1 on many trips.



Well, that trip to Europe with an entourage of 700-plus comes to mind.






"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 7:04 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But what you're doing is bitching about something a Democrat does that you would NEVER have bitched about when a Republican was doing it. As evidence, I simply note that you never brought it up before.

So it's quite clear that you don't have a problem with profligate spending; you just have a problem with it when it's done my a Democrat. You'll actively defend it when your beloved GOP does it.


Let's boil down this whole thread right now Kwicko. You said what is being spent on "parties" is a drop in the bucket compared to what was spent on Iraq. Show me where Bush said he was not going to invade Iraq.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hey, introduce a bill that will require all Congresspersons, cabinet officials, and other federal government employees in D.C. to live in the area, and I'll be glad to support it. Bring up a bill that requires all such people to pay their own travel expenses out of pocket, and I'm right there with you.



Ah. The good old "ridiculous extreme" gambit again.

I don't care where government employees live, or if they travel on the government's dime for work. (All except the highest rank fly on their own dime for personal travel anyway). However, Panetta flying to California around 2 of 3 weekends for personal reasons on the government dime does seem excessive.

Quote:

We're still paying you money for nothing, aren't we?


Well, no. I'm being paid back the part of my salary I paid to the Civil Service Retirement System for 36 years, plus the investments in the Thrift Savings Plan for 20.

Quote:

But what you're doing is bitching about something a Democrat does that you would NEVER have bitched about when a Republican was doing it. As evidence, I simply note that you never brought it up before.


Don't recall any Republican Secretary of Defense, or Republican in any government position, traveling from D.C. to California for the weekend 37 (may be more by now) times in 9 months in an Air Force plane.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:19 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But what you're doing is bitching about something a Democrat does that you would NEVER have bitched about when a Republican was doing it. As evidence, I simply note that you never brought it up before.

So it's quite clear that you don't have a problem with profligate spending; you just have a problem with it when it's done my a Democrat. You'll actively defend it when your beloved GOP does it.


Let's boil down this whole thread right now Kwicko. You said what is being spent on "parties" is a drop in the bucket compared to what was spent on Iraq. Show me where Bush said he was not going to invade Iraq.



Possibly the most facile thing you've ever said - which is a saying a lot.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sigh...just more

Yes, the pertinent part about Bush's trips is that he only counted the TRAVEL, like the money spent on Iraq, all the rest was left out, all the things Obama put IN about entourage, security, etc. We don't know what those amounted to, so we realy can't compare the two.

And no, just because the previous administration did it does NOT excuse the next one from doing it. In no way. The reality is that it's been found out by this administration, people have been fired for doing the wrong thing, and it's being dealt with. To point it out is a good laugh and gets the appropriate disgust, but it's not a valid talking point because it's being fixed.

While what one administration does in no way excuses it being continued, the fact remains that, when oversight is missing or sloppy and a precedent is set, people are likely to think they can keep getting away with it, even make it worse; it's human nature. Just as the idiocy of what was happening with the supposed "oversight" that was abused pretty badly helped lead to the Gulf spill, once it's found out, whenever it's found out, the important thing is to stop it and make it right. I hope they have in that instance, because all the screwing and drug taking was abominable to learn about!

The tendency to blame the President for anything and everything that happens under his administration is natural, but fallacious. Supposedly a President puts in power people he can trust to do their job; when people feel like they have carte blanche to spend taxpayers money irresponsibly, they will. The President has to find out about it from his administration; he's not expected to provide oversight for every aspect of the administration, but to deal with more important things. It's not Bush's fault there was no oversight of the previous conferences--I'm pretty sure if it had come to light during HIS administration, people would have been fired and it would have been "fixed" too. It's just partisan silliness to hold the President accountable for everything that goes on. You can blame him for who he put in office, but if we're going to play tit for tat on that, I believe Bush put a few people in office who had no experience or training for some of the positions they held. That's about as far as blame can go, and I'm pretty sure you can find instances where Obama did the same.

In essence, Obama said you can't do stuff on the taxpayer's dime, and he meant it. When he learned some in his administration had DONE just that, he fired them. There's no dichotomy that I can see.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 9:07 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Possibly the most facile thing you've ever said - which is a saying a lot.


So facile that I seemed to have scared Kwicko away. Oh well, I'm sure he will simply pop up in another thread to spread his wisdom.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But what you're doing is bitching about something a Democrat does that you would NEVER have bitched about when a Republican was doing it. As evidence, I simply note that you never brought it up before.

So it's quite clear that you don't have a problem with profligate spending; you just have a problem with it when it's done my a Democrat. You'll actively defend it when your beloved GOP does it.


Let's boil down this whole thread right now Kwicko. You said what is being spent on "parties" is a drop in the bucket compared to what was spent on Iraq. Show me where Bush said he was not going to invade Iraq.




Right after you show me where Panetta said he wasn't going to fly home.

Deal?



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Don't recall any Republican Secretary of Defense, or Republican in any government position, traveling from D.C. to California for the weekend 37 (may be more by now) times in 9 months in an Air Force plane.





Ah. The good old "ridiculous extreme" gambit again.


So again I ask: Is it the number of trips, or the expense?

Do you recall any Republican government official ever traveling home for the weekend at all?





"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 12:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Speaking of spending...

Officials noted that Panetta is required to travel by military aircraft for purposes of security and to have access to secure communications, a practice instituted by the George W. Bush administration in 2001.






So if the Bush administration instituted the policy it must be carried on by the Obama administration? Is that what you are implying Kwicko? Or did you not think your dig at Geezer through all the way?




Are you implying that we should get out of Afghanistan today and roll back the Bush tax cuts tomorrow? After all, aren't those "Bush policies" that we were told we had to carry forward?

Didn't really think that one through all the way, did ya?




Looks like BDN is afraid to answer the question.

I'll try to hide my surprise. ;)




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:47 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Are you implying that we should get out of Afghanistan today and roll back the Bush tax cuts tomorrow? After all, aren't those "Bush policies" that we were told we had to carry forward?

Didn't really think that one through all the way, did ya?



Looks like BDN is afraid to answer the question.

I'll try to hide my surprise. ;)


I did not answer your question because you are simply trying to obfuscate.

I do not think we should get out of Afghanistan until we are asked to leave.

I do not think we should roll back the Bush tax cuts because it will put more money in the hands of government when they should take less.

But these are my opinions. If Obama wanted to do the opposite then go for it. Just because the practice was started by one administration does not mean that it must be carried on throughout the next.

You pulled a "but Bush" defense for what is happening in the present administration and I called you on it.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:52 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Right after you show me where Panetta said he wasn't going to fly home.

Deal?


No deal.
What Panetta has to do with presidents saying one thing while the direct opposite happens is beyond me.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Right after you show me where Panetta said he wasn't going to fly home.

Deal?


No deal.
What Panetta has to do with presidents saying one thing while the direct opposite happens is beyond me.



Hey, you were the one who said Bush never claimed he WASN'T going to invade Iraq. Panetta also never claimed he WASN'T going to fly home, and now you seem to have a problem with the fact that he goes home to see his family a lot.

I thought you right-whingers were supposed to be all about family, but clearly that's not the case.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, April 11, 2012 3:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Are you implying that we should get out of Afghanistan today and roll back the Bush tax cuts tomorrow? After all, aren't those "Bush policies" that we were told we had to carry forward?

Didn't really think that one through all the way, did ya?



Looks like BDN is afraid to answer the question.

I'll try to hide my surprise. ;)


I did not answer your question because you are simply trying to obfuscate.




Actually, I'm trying to find out if you have any principles that you actually stick to, no matter who is in office. It's become quite clear that you don't, though, so I guess it's pointless to ask.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:14 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Don't recall any Republican Secretary of Defense, or Republican in any government position, traveling from D.C. to California for the weekend 37 (may be more by now) times in 9 months in an Air Force plane.





Ah. The good old "ridiculous extreme" gambit again.



So you admit that Panetta's 37 trips in 9 months is a "ridiculous extreme".

Thanks for that concession.


Quote:

So again I ask: Is it the number of trips, or the expense?


And again I give the same answer: It's that no one in the Obama administration seems to think that it'd be a good idea to maybe spend a bit less of the Defense budget on Panetta's weekends.



Quote:

Do you recall any Republican government official ever traveling home for the weekend at all?


Not 37 times in 9 months at government expense. If you can show any particular Republican who made trips that frequently on the government's dime...

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 3:28 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
And again I give the same answer: It's that no one in the Obama administration seems to think that it'd be a good idea to maybe spend a bit less of the Defense budget on Panetta's weekends.



No. Here is why, Leon Panetta is the Secretary of Defense for the most powerful nation on the planet. He makes just under $200,000 per year in salary. He could easily go to the private sector and make ten times that if not more. So to offset that difference he get some perks. Even at a cost of $860,000 for all the trips it is still a small amount when you are talking about the defence budget.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well said, Nick.

I'll bite just long enough to offer some statistics:
Quote:

So far, President Obama has taken 61 vacation days after 31 months in office. At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch.

Among recent presidents, Bill Clinton took the least time off — 28 days. http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-20093801.html] President Reagan spent 112 days on vacation during his first 31 months in office according to CBS News. He spent most of his vacation time on his California ranch near Santa Barbara, according to NBC Bay Area News. The White House communications team and national security staff accompanied President Reagan during trips home to his ranch. Taxpayers covered the cost of approximately $8 million for presidential travel during the Reagan's first 6 years in office, according to the LA Times. http://news.yahoo.com/comparison-recent-presidential-vacation-time-160
400657.html
have to work out what that means compared to Obama's time in office, etc., etc., but I think it's all just pretty ridiculous partisan pettiness.

And again, the FACTS are that Obama said you can't do such-and-such; someone in his administration did it anyway, he fired them.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:42 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch.



[sarcasm]But Bush an Reagan were Presidents of the most powerful nation on the planet. Reagan made around $200,000 per year in salary, and Bush $400,000. They could easily have gone to the private sector and make ten times that if not more. So to offset that difference they got some perks. Even at whatever the cost is for all the trips it is still a small amount when you are talking about the national budget.

Yep. Well said, Nick.[/sarcasm]

Yes. This was sarcasm. Wouldn't want anyone to become confused.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch.



[sarcasm]But Bush an Reagan were Presidents of the most powerful nation on the planet. Reagan made around $200,000 per year in salary, and Bush $400,000. They could easily have gone to the private sector and make ten times that if not more. So to offset that difference they got some perks. Even at whatever the cost is for all the trips it is still a small amount when you are talking about the national budget.

Yep. Well said, Nick.[/sarcasm]

Yes. This was sarcasm. Wouldn't want anyone to become confused.




I think you're the only one who really gets confused by sarcasm.

But thanks for conceding the point that there are indeed Republicans who have used taxpayer money for more travel than Panetta. I wasn't sure you could do it, but you finally did!




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:23 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch.



[sarcasm]But Bush an Reagan were Presidents of the most powerful nation on the planet. Reagan made around $200,000 per year in salary, and Bush $400,000. They could easily have gone to the private sector and make ten times that if not more. So to offset that difference they got some perks. Even at whatever the cost is for all the trips it is still a small amount when you are talking about the national budget.

Yep. Well said, Nick.[/sarcasm]

Yes. This was sarcasm. Wouldn't want anyone to become confused.



You could add Obama's name to that as well. My whole point is that bickering about who took more vacations and spent more money to do so is stupid overall. I could care less that Bush spend time at his ranch in Texas, even the President deserves some r-n-r. I bet Bush and Obama still got sercurity briefs and still did work on those vacations as well.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Don't recall any Republican Secretary of Defense, or Republican in any government position, traveling from D.C. to California for the weekend 37 (may be more by now) times in 9 months in an Air Force plane.





Ah. The good old "ridiculous extreme" gambit again.



So you admit that Panetta's 37 trips in 9 months is a "ridiculous extreme".

Thanks for that concession.




Reading comprehension fail complete! I admit that your question was a ridiculous extreme.

You've narrowed your criteria down so much that you've essentially made the only possible answer a group of one. If I post that Bush spent more vacation time at his ranch in Texas, you get to say, "Ah, but that's not California, is it?" If I post that he spent 180 days on vacation, you'll claim that at least he didn't fly home 37 times, which is the same answer you'd give if I told you he took 72 vacation trips in as short a time span.

It's the same thing as if I asked you if you could name me one single Democrat who was President of the United States in April 2008 who collapsed the U.S. economy as badly and got as many Americans killed in needless wars as Dubya did. Since you can't name one, that means you agree that Dubya did indeed collapse the economy and get many Americans killed needlessly!



Quote:


Quote:

Do you recall any Republican government official ever traveling home for the weekend at all?


Not 37 times in 9 months at government expense. If you can show any particular Republican who made trips that frequently on the government's dime...




*ANY* Republican government official?

I'll play.

"WASHINGTON — Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has been spending large amounts on airfare as a congressman, flying first class on dozens of taxpayer-funded flights to his home state. The practice conflicts with the image that Paul portrays as the only presidential candidate serious about cutting federal spending.

Paul flew first class on at least 31 round-trip flights and 12 one-way flights since May 2009 when he was traveling between Washington and his district in Texas, according to a review by The Associated Press of his congressional office expenses. Four other round-trip tickets and two other one-way tickets purchased during the period were eligible for upgrades to first-class after they were bought, but those upgrades would not be documented in the expense records."

http://m.caller.com/news/2012/jan/16/pauls-taxpayer-paid-flights-fly-f
ace-cut-spending
/

That's the patron saint of small government conservatism, flying first-class at taxpayer expense more often than Panetta.

I'll wait for the outrage from the right to begin...




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 7:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But thanks for conceding the point that there are indeed Republicans who have used taxpayer money for more travel than Panetta. I wasn't sure you could do it, but you finally did!



Need to check your math there, Mike.

Per Niki's quote, Bush spent 180 days at his ranch in 31 months, averaging around 6 days a month.

Reagan spent 112 days at his home in California in 31 months, averaging around 3.5 days a month.

Panetta has spent at least 37 weekends - lets be conservative and call that 74 days, although reports show some weekends running longer - in 9 months, averaging around 8.25 days a month.

Looks like Sec. Panetta is still the leader in the "Let's go home on the government's dime" contest.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:09 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


Quote:

Not 37 times in 9 months at government expense. If you can show any particular Republican who made trips that frequently on the government's dime...



*ANY* Republican government official?

I'll play.

"WASHINGTON — Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has been spending large amounts on airfare as a congressman, flying first class on dozens of taxpayer-funded flights to his home state. The practice conflicts with the image that Paul portrays as the only presidential candidate serious about cutting federal spending.

Paul flew first class on at least 31 round-trip flights and 12 one-way flights since May 2009 when he was traveling between Washington and his district in Texas, according to a review by The Associated Press of his congressional office expenses. Four other round-trip tickets and two other one-way tickets purchased during the period were eligible for upgrades to first-class after they were bought, but those upgrades would not be documented in the expense records."



"Frequently", Mike.

Panetta: 37 times in 9 months, or a bit more than 4 times a month.

Paul: 43 times in, let's see...May 2009 to Jan 2012 when the article you cite was published would be around 32 months. So 43 divided by 32 would be about 1 and a third times a month.

Looks like Panetta is still the "Frequent Flyer" champ.

Not to mention that he's flying in an Air Force plane that's many times more expensive than even First Class airfare.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:13 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Per Niki's quote, Bush spent 180 days at his ranch in 31 months, averaging around 6 days a month.



President, White House was primary residence.

Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Reagan spent 112 days at his home in California in 31 months, averaging around 3.5 days a month.



President, White House was primary residence.

Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Panetta has spent at least 37 weekends - lets be conservative and call that 74 days, although reports show some weekends running longer - in 9 months, averaging around 8.25 days a month.



Secretary of Defense going to primary residence.


You truly are the king of false equivalents.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:54 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:


Quote:

Not 37 times in 9 months at government expense. If you can show any particular Republican who made trips that frequently on the government's dime...



*ANY* Republican government official?

I'll play.

"WASHINGTON — Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has been spending large amounts on airfare as a congressman, flying first class on dozens of taxpayer-funded flights to his home state. The practice conflicts with the image that Paul portrays as the only presidential candidate serious about cutting federal spending.

Paul flew first class on at least 31 round-trip flights and 12 one-way flights since May 2009 when he was traveling between Washington and his district in Texas, according to a review by The Associated Press of his congressional office expenses. Four other round-trip tickets and two other one-way tickets purchased during the period were eligible for upgrades to first-class after they were bought, but those upgrades would not be documented in the expense records."



"Frequently", Mike.

Panetta: 37 times in 9 months, or a bit more than 4 times a month.

Paul: 43 times in, let's see...May 2009 to Jan 2012 when the article you cite was published would be around 32 months. So 43 divided by 32 would be about 1 and a third times a month.

Looks like Panetta is still the "Frequent Flyer" champ.

Not to mention that he's flying in an Air Force plane that's many times more expensive than even First Class airfare.



Ah - so it's NOT just the total number of trips, then. I asked before, but you never would give a coherent answer.

But nice to see you've added yet another condition to your list. Now it has to be trips flown in an Air Force plane, eh?

I'm betting you don't include Air Force One in that list somehow.




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 2:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
President, White House was primary residence.
President, White House was primary residence.
Secretary of Defense going to primary residence.


You truly are the king of false equivalents.



Well, it was Niki and Mike who brought it up, so maybe they're the royalty here.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 2:37 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Ah - so it's NOT just the total number of trips, then. I asked before, but you never would give a coherent answer.



Mike, I've been talking about the frequency of Panetta's trips since the get-go.

"Now find where the Bush Administration required Panetta to fly home 2/3 of the weekends since he became Secretary of Defense."

"77 times in eight years vs. 37 times in 9 months."

"However, Panetta flying to California around 2 of 3 weekends for personal reasons on the government dime does seem excessive."

"Don't recall any Republican Secretary of Defense, or Republican in any government position, traveling from D.C. to California for the weekend 37 (may be more by now) times in 9 months in an Air Force plane."


"So you admit that Panetta's 37 trips in 9 months is a "ridiculous extreme".

Thanks for that concession."

"Panetta has spent at least 37 weekends - lets be conservative and call that 74 days, although reports show some weekends running longer - in 9 months, averaging around 8.25 days a month."



Quote:

But nice to see you've added yet another condition to your list. Now it has to be trips flown in an Air Force plane, eh?


Well, It was part of the original article I cited, and also had this mention a while back:

"Don't recall any Republican Secretary of Defense, or Republican in any government position, traveling from D.C. to California for the weekend 37 (may be more by now) times in 9 months in an Air Force plane."



Quote:

I'm betting you don't include Air Force One in that list somehow.


Sigh.

Quote:

Per Niki's quote, Bush spent 180 days at his ranch in 31 months, averaging around 6 days a month.

Reagan spent 112 days at his home in California in 31 months, averaging around 3.5 days a month.

Panetta has spent at least 37 weekends - lets be conservative and call that 74 days, although reports show some weekends running longer - in 9 months, averaging around 8.25 days a month.



Unless you're saying that Reagan and Bush flew home commercial, looks like Air Force One was included.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 3:02 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
President, White House was primary residence.
President, White House was primary residence.
Secretary of Defense going to primary residence.


You truly are the king of false equivalents.



Well, it was Niki and Mike who brought it up, so maybe they're the royalty here.



I see a passing mention, but even if they did, why did you follow. Who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follow's him?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 3:15 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I see a passing mention, but even if they did, why did you follow.



Because I was concerned with the number and frequency of trips, not which end was the primary residence.


Quote:

Who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follow's him?


I'd say it's the nitpicker.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 3:31 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Because I was concerned with the number and frequency of trips, not which end was the primary residence.



Okay, so would you rather have someone not as qualified for that job to save on those trips?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 7:48 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
President, White House was primary residence.
President, White House was primary residence.
Secretary of Defense going to primary residence.


You truly are the king of false equivalents.



Well, it was Niki and Mike who brought it up, so maybe they're the royalty here.



Where did I mention "primary residence"?

And if Panetta is in DC for 22 days per month, isn't THAT his de facto "primary residence"?




"I have no real clue of what you're speaking." - AuRaptor.

"Yes. I was wrong. I am sorry." - AuRaptor.

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51196

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 7:57 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
President, White House was primary residence.
President, White House was primary residence.
Secretary of Defense going to primary residence.


You truly are the king of false equivalents.



Well, it was Niki and Mike who brought it up, so maybe they're the royalty here.



Bringing something up does not equate presenting a false equivalence.

Amazing that you make that simple mistake.... in an effort to present a false equivalence. That's impressive!

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 8:20 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

And if Panetta is in DC for 22 days per month, isn't THAT his de facto "primary residence"?



No, he is living in DC because of work, so his California home would still be his primary residence.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 13, 2012 1:29 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
President, White House was primary residence.
President, White House was primary residence.
Secretary of Defense going to primary residence.


You truly are the king of false equivalents.



Well, it was Niki and Mike who brought it up, so maybe they're the royalty here.



Bringing something up does not equate presenting a false equivalence.

Amazing that you make that simple mistake.... in an effort to present a false equivalence. That's impressive!

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




Even more amazing that Geezer, who HATES when people assign statements and positions to him, is now claiming I brought it up.

Oh, wait. That's not amazing at all. It's what he always does!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 14, 2012 1:55 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Even more amazing that Geezer, who HATES when people assign statements and positions to him, is now claiming I brought it up.



Niki brought it up, and you referenced it as fact.

"But thanks for conceding the point that there are indeed Republicans who have used taxpayer money for more travel than Panetta. I wasn't sure you could do it, but you finally did!"

So you've reached the point where you got no more points to make, and have to start on the word games.

I'll consider the off-topic stuff to mean that you concede that Panetta's travel is excessive, unless you can come up with stuff related to that topic.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, April 16, 2012 7:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!







" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL

OUR SPONSORS