REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

16 dead Afghan civilians after US soldier goes on shooting spree

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Sunday, November 11, 2012 21:17
SHORT URL:
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Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

Updated at 10:55 a.m. ET: KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A U.S. service member killed at least 15 members of two Afghan families as well as a 16th person before turning himself in, witnesses and officials said Sunday.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai in a statement called it "an assassination," adding that nine of the dead were children, and three were women.

The soldier, who has yet to be identified, reportedly left his base in the early hours Sunday and went to two villages just a few hundred yards away. He then opened fire on Afghan civilians sleeping in their homes, Minister of Border and Tribal Affairs Asadullah Khalid told Reuters. The service member entered three homes in the villages in Kandahar province, he said.
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/11/10639152-us-soldier-ki
lls-16-afghan-civilians-officials-say?ocid=ansmsnbc11




And with how well the last apology went over....


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 9:14 AM

OONJERAH



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/world/asia/afghanistan-civilians-kil
led-american-soldier-held.html


"officials described a growing sense of concern over a cascading series of missteps and offenses
that has cast doubt on the ability of NATO personnel to carry out their mission and has left troops
and trainers increasingly vulnerable to violence by Afghans seeking revenge.

"President Hamid Karzai condemned the attack, calling it in a statement an “inhuman and intentional
act” and demanding justice."

NATO?

NEWT: "You have to reassure the Afghan people that there will be transparency, that justice will be done,"
Gingrich said today on CBS' Face the Nation. "When a tragedy like this occurs we have an absolute obligation
to deal with it out in the open."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/03/newt-g
ingrich-afghanistan-civilian-shooting-/1





             

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 9:17 AM

AGENTROUKA


Oh, for the love of...

I looked at some images at the BBC news website. One of those children looked no older than three years.

It's sickening.

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:35 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



No offense , Newt, but how we DEAL with this is all but moot. Unless there is a brutal, bloody public execution of this serial killer, ( obviously not gonna happen), we're in store for more violence.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:56 AM

JONGSSTRAW


It's a lot easier and more fun for Afghanis to see their wives and daughters beaten, raped, and burned with acid at the hands of the Taliban than to fight for freedom with infidel Koran-burners.









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Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:47 PM

BYTEMITE


A unanimous *headdesk* and military trial for war crimes conducted in Turkey (about as neutral territory as we're going to get for the region) is probably the proper response.

Doubt the last part will happen, but I think we managed to achieve the former.

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 1:44 PM

FREMDFIRMA



No shit Byte - I think we both know the ONLY difference between this and a hundred more incidents is that this one somehow caught notice and press attention.

Still, it's war, yanno - and war, war never changes.

That's why SMART people don't have them unless STUPID FUCKING DIPSHITS wholly insulated from the consequences, completely ignorant of reality, lead a cheerleading frenzy to let the masters justify it like the good little TOOLS they are.
*hisssss*



*Cranks it LOUD, too, to make SURE, yanno?*

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 1:58 PM

BYTEMITE


I introduced one of my cousins to that song yesterday. it's a good one.

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 2:04 PM

HERO


He will plead.insanity.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:08 PM

HKCAVALIER


At some point in human history, people will understand that training humans to perform the acts of violence associated with modern warfare is a war crime in and of itself. It is a crime against humanity to strip these young men of their humanity in order to achieve our political ends. No human is prepared to deal with committing such atrocity and no population in the history of the world deserves such treatment. Least of all civilians of any kind. War is madness, and hopefully, with all the access we now have to what's really going on around the world, some meaningful understanding will come out of all this horror.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:11 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
At some point in human history, people will understand that training humans to perform the acts of violence associated with modern warfare is a war crime in and of itself. It is a crime against humanity to strip these young men of their humanity in order to achieve our political ends. No human is prepared to deal with committing such atrocity and no population in the history of the world deserves such treatment. Least of all civilians of any kind. War is madness, and hopefully, with all the access we now have to what's really going on around the world, some meaningful understanding will come out of all this horror.

HKCavalier




Applause

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:41 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

At some point in human history, people will understand that training humans to perform the acts of violence associated with modern warfare is a war crime in and of itself. It is a crime against humanity to strip these young men of their humanity in order to achieve our political ends. No human is prepared to deal with committing such atrocity and no population in the history of the world deserves such treatment. Least of all civilians of any kind. War is madness, and hopefully, with all the access we now have to what's really going on around the world, some meaningful understanding will come out of all this horror.



There are times that I get after HK for various reasons or another, but this will not be one of them.

Well said.

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:48 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Once again, Bravo HK, for you've left me with nothing to say.

-F

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Monday, March 12, 2012 12:47 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Hang Al Qaeda dictator Hussein Obama Soetoro. Hang em high.



Quote:

"Ron Paul has Governor Jessee Ventura's endorsement. He is the only candidate that wants to talk rather than wage war. All we do is go to war - one after another after another. Until you have hunted men, you haven't hunted yet."
-Jesse Ventura, Petty Officer 3rd Class, US Navy SEAL





"This just in. Americans are too stupid to vote for Ron Paul, according to a Department of Education survey."
-Faux News

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Monday, March 12, 2012 3:05 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


It's too bad the Afghan people can't get nearly as unified in their anger when such atrocities are committed by the Taliban.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, March 12, 2012 4:35 AM

BYTEMITE


"Better the devil you know."

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Monday, March 12, 2012 8:41 AM

CAVETROLL


CNN reported that the soldier responsible had 3 prior tours in Iraq. This happened near Kandahar. Which, for Taliban sympathy, is supposedly pretty high up there.

Sounds like he cracked. You put someone under pressure long enough and they'll explode. Tragic for the dead and their families, but understandable.

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Monday, March 12, 2012 8:47 AM

HKCAVALIER


Reuters is reporting that there were several soldiers involved whom witnesses say were laughing and appeared drunk. When it comes to these damn wars, it's always worse than they're telling you.

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012/03/afghanistan-shootings-mystery-
more-than-one-us-soldier-involved-in-shooting-spree-bodies-burned
/

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, March 12, 2012 9:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I was waiting for someone to mention that, Cave. Not only is the military not treating our vets (medically) well when they come home, weaseling out of treating PTSD or giving those suffering it proper recognition, but they're sending them out there too often for too long. They're only human; I'm surprised it hasn't happened more...or that we've not heard about it, I guess. We're stretched too thin, just as Al Qaeda planned. Will we never learn?

I hope this doesn't bring about any more bloodshed, tho' I suppose that's a futile hope. We need to get out, pure and simple. I used to be on the fence, since I care about the Afghans, but we've screwed it up so badly and done more harm than good, so I'm off the fence. Bring 'em home, Afghanistan will do what it's gonna do. We've, as usual, made enemies of those we tried to "help", and enough is enough. I've often thought about how horribly hard it has to be for guys sent over there--and to Iraq--and how we don't prepare them at ALL, and it's wrong.

Bring 'em home, and for gawd's sake don't start another with Iran...OR Syria!

ETA: Oh, and yes, the South has ALWAYS been the stronghold of the mullahs, who would naturally follow the Taliban; it's always been more dangerous than Kabul and the North.



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Monday, March 12, 2012 9:20 AM

FREMDFIRMA



I had thought that obvious, HK...
Stuff like this is never one guy, never an isolated incident, and rarely a breakdown of discipline so much as an official policy of looking the other way so long as those who engage in this conduct are relatively discreet about it.

The very nature of the thing all but demands it, how else to get people to kill other people they don't know and have no personal disagreement with ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, March 12, 2012 10:43 AM

HKCAVALIER


Well, yes, but no one was posting it here and this narrative of "the lone gunman" was getting way too much traction.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, March 12, 2012 5:44 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


A horrible thing, it belongs in a war crimes court. The frustrating thing is that we probably won't be told how it comes out, the news always drops stories once they're old news. Remember the Fort Hood Massacre? They never have talked about that since, I bet the lazy people involved still haven't brought the guy to trial yet. Out of sight out of mind. :(

The horrors of war are nothing new, but a person can only take so much. That is in no way excusing his behavior, but the whole thing is really hard.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 12, 2012 7:40 PM

OONJERAH



Several soldiers involved in Afghan killings => http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=144688

I could not find this on the main Google news page. Had to dig for it.
Some Middle Eastern papers are in English, & carry the story of several soldiers.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501712_162-57395128/afghans-express-skepti
cism-over-shooting-account
/
"KABUL, Afghanistan — Afghans are expressing growing skepticism that a shooting rampage
that killed 16 civilians was carried out by a single U.S. soldier.

Abdul Rahum Ayubi, who is a lawmaker from Kandahar province where the tragedy occurred,
said Monday it seemed impossible for one soldier to cover the ground between the houses
that were attacked — over a mile (2 kilometers) — and also burn the dead bodies."

Rapid City Journal, SD
"Lt. Col. Jimmie Cummings, another spokesman for the coalition, insisted there was only one gunman."



             

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 3:32 AM

CAVETROLL


CNN's piece did mention that some witnesses said there were several soldiers. But it also mentioned that other witnesses said there was only one. Witnesses to crimes are generally incorrect in details, which leaves it all suspect. In any event ballistic evidence is out the window since islamic tradition requires a quick burial. And I doubt the victims families will want the US military performing autopsies.

Of course, I am reminded of My Lai.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 9:47 AM

OONJERAH



My impression of events is: One witness saw the men come there. They were drunk and laughing.
One whole family was killed, mostly inside their own home. It was apparently shocking, sobering
for some of the soldiers who, realizing they'd killed small children, decided to burn the bodies
as a cover up and get the hell back to base.

One solder continued the "hunt" and was able to kill another adult.

Of course, all the shooting at the first home, would have attracted more witnesses, eventho most
would be hiding then.

As with most drunken parties, what really happened may never be known, and if known, not reported.



             

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Whether it was one or more than one, the initial problem, in my opinion, still remains and isn't being dealt with:
Quote:

We don't know why one US soldier in Afghanistan broke into homes last week and killed 16 civilians, but recent research suggests such disasters are just waiting to happen.

US army researchers have found that after Middle East deployment, 10 to 20 per cent of soldiers suffer severe post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), a type of chronic anxiety including flashbacks, emotional numbing and anger.

They warned in 2010 that these veterans report three times more aggressive outbursts than the pre-deployment average, and that PTSD may not emerge until 12 months after returning from deployment, when soldiers are often deployed again, leading to cumulative stress. We don't know if the rogue soldier had PTSD. However, he was on his fourth deployment from Lewis-McChord military base in Washington state, which has suffered high rates of PTSD, violence and suicide among soldiers with multiple deployments.

The only treatments approved for PTSD are antidepressants and psychotherapies, neither of which always work, and reach just one in five veterans in need.

Trials of a widely prescribed anti-psychotic drug, Risperidone, showed little benefit. Other common treatments, like tranquilisers, might actually be harmful, says Charles Hoge of Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Silver Spring, Maryland.

There is a "tremendous unmet need" for new treatments, says John Krystal, head of neuroscience at the US Department of Veterans Affairs' National Center for PTSD.

Meanwhile, "there are almost always warning signs in such people," says Bengt Arnetz of Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan, who studies trauma-related disorders. But, he says "medical and personnel records are not systematically monitored", and there is no standardised system to spot risk-related behaviour. Existing tools to track stress, depression and irritability, he says, could be used to spot people "close to critical levels" before they snap. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21584-soldiers-on-multiple-deplo
yment-need-monitoring.html
]



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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:15 PM

OONJERAH



I've seen several stories related to this shooting that focus mainly on PTSD and how very wide spread it is.
I think, "Hmmm ... this seems like a much higher rate of stress-crazed troops than we had during Viet Nam."
And I immediately answer myself: "Insufficient data. The military never told us anything during and after
Viet Nam." And why would they now?

The Washington Post -- Afghan man who crashed truck near Panetta plane dies from burns =>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/afghan-who-crash
ed-truck-near-panetta-plane-dies-from-burns/2012/03/15/gIQAL9LVDS_story.html

(The story is what the headline says. But further down, my excerpts are the comments of interest to me.)

    The unidentified Army staff sergeant involved in Sunday’s killings was moved out of Afghanistan to
Kuwait, Scaparrotti said. Some Afghan officials had demanded the staff sergeant be tried in Afghanistan.

“We informed the [Afghan] government that we were going to move the individual,” Scaparrotti said.
“Their response was that they understood that.” ...

Amid continuing furor over the slayings, U.S. officials showed a base surveillance video of the staff sergeant
surrendering to Afghan security guards upon his return to his combat outpost. The video, recorded from a spy
balloon floating over the outpost, was released as part of an effort to knock down rumors that other U.S.
troops might have been involved.

Panetta, making his third trip to Afghanistan, pledged during his visit that a recent string of setbacks would
not force the United States to alter its strategy here.

    OK. Does that mean: eventho Obama (says he) wants out of Afghanistan, the Army is not budging?


             

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 11:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Further to my point about the military:
Quote:

Two aspects of the crime deserve particular attention to determine whether there is more to the story than the sudden, inexplicable, unpredictable and unstoppable snapping of a single crazed gunman. First: what the Army knew about the soldier’s mental state and when it knew it. This soldier was four months into his fourth deployment in a decade. Senior defense officials told NBC News that the soldier had no history of behavior problems but also acknowledged that in a previous deployment in Iraq he had suffered traumatic brain injury. As my TIME colleague Mark Thompson notes, TBIs can bring on a variety of mental health problems, which renders the official’s statement confusing and contradictory.

As I researched a similar crime—the rape and murder of a 14 year Iraqi old girl and the murder of her parents and her 6 year old sister by four 101st Airborne Division soldiers in South Baghdad in 2006,
I was shocked to discover that several of the unit’s leaders were aware that the mental state of the murderous foursome’s trigger man was severely degraded, yet they kept him on the front lines of combat. (As an example of just one missed red flag: During a session with a combat stress counselor, this soldier described his intense desires to kill Iraqi civilians. The next day, after two of the unit’s soldiers were killed in a roadside bomb explosion, the counselor told the unit’s battalion commander that she considered the entire platoon psychologically unfit for combat, yet the commander put them back on the front line within 48 hours).

Unfortunately, in cases of extreme military malfeasance, the Army has a poor track record of assessing, acknowledging and punishing the leadership breakdowns that allow war crimes to take place. As Army Lieut. Colonel Paul Yingling noted in a 2007 article in the Armed Forces Journal, “A general who presides over a massive human rights scandal or a substantial deterioration in security ought to be retired at a lower rank … As matters stand now, a private who loses a rifle suffers far greater consequences than a general who loses a war.” Perhaps USA Today is correct in concluding, “People crack, and they kill—the danger they pose obvious only in hindsight.” In this case, let us devoutly hope so. But if it is not, if this soldier demonstrated clear warning signs of instability that were ignored, or if troop management standards had become lax, then the Army has a responsibility to Americans, Afghans and its own ranks to hold the unit’s leaders accountable for contributing, even unintentionally, to an atrocity. http://ideas.time.com/2012/03/14/is-the-army-responsible-for-the-afgha
n-massacre/
always have problems, but it pisses me off that our military has behaved the way it has, costing us MORE lives, MORE disabled soldiers, and MORE atrocities. Their denial/coverup of rape, intimidation of women so they don't rape, Abu Grabe, and on and on shows a mentality that disgusts me.



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Thursday, March 15, 2012 12:51 PM

OONJERAH



        Occupy the Pentagon?


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Thursday, March 15, 2012 1:58 PM

HKCAVALIER


Ironic to me that when we do something like this, it hadda be a "lone gunman" whether it's this week's atrocity or Oklahoma City. While if it's done by one or more Muslims, well then, the entire Nation of Islam is in league with 'em. I was hoping this madness would be over by now.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 2:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Where you have armies, you have madness, Cav.
One happens to be integral to the other.

-F

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 2:35 PM

HKCAVALIER


Oh, of course, Frem. The madness I'm talking about is the raw, unwavering hatred dumped all over Islam since Sept. 11. I thought it would have burned itself out by now. What a deep well of hatred was unearthed on that day. Be honest with me here, brother Anarchist, did you really think our nation was THIS fucking radically insane as we've proven to be in the last 10 years?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:22 PM

OONJERAH



(Reuters) - Army Staff Sergeant Robert Bales, accused of killing Afghan
civilians in a shooting rampage in Kandahar province last week, will be
charged with 17 counts of murder, a U.S. official said on Thursday. =>
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/22/us-afghanistan-usa-shooting-
charges-idUSBRE82L1BI20120322




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Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:33 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Oh, of course, Frem. The madness I'm talking about is the raw, unwavering hatred dumped all over Islam since Sept. 11. I thought it would have burned itself out by now. What a deep well of hatred was unearthed on that day. Be honest with me here, brother Anarchist, did you really think our nation was THIS fucking radically insane as we've proven to be in the last 10 years?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.




Hello,

I can't speak for Frem, but I continue to be daily surprised by the lows we can sink to.

I shouldn't be surprised, though. One of my favorite Shakespeare plays has two nations going to war over a cask of tennis balls.

(not quite, but it was definitely a contributing factor.)

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:57 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, boy, Cav, do I getcha. It saddens me greatly, especially when some of our ultra-righties are always DYING to point out something done by a lone Muslim and extrapolate to the entire Muslim world. And then of course, the manipulators work to tie our President in with them, too. Humans make me very sad, sometimes.

And Anthony, yeah, too. What amazes me is that I DO continue to be surprised...Romney bald-facedly lying about euthenasia in--Denmark I think?--really blew my mind. There truly ARE no depths to which some will sink, and I'm never prepared for it.



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Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:06 PM

OONJERAH



euthanasia in Netherlands.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Oh, of course, Frem. The madness I'm talking about is the raw, unwavering hatred dumped all over Islam since Sept. 11. I thought it would have burned itself out by now. What a deep well of hatred was unearthed on that day. Be honest with me here, brother Anarchist, did you really think our nation was THIS fucking radically insane as we've proven to be in the last 10 years?


THINK it ?

Cav, I've KNOWN it, since I was maybe eight years old - the millstone of that weight, that knowledge, in the face of everyone elses self-deception and denial, has colored my life, personality, very being in the shades of grey within which it operates, and my intention from the get-go was to bend the world, or help do so, into a place where no child would ever have to bear the weight of that awful, awful knowledge EVER again.

I knew what lie under the thin facade from the very beginning, old friend - but you try tellin people and they don't believe cause they don't WANNA belive, and you know what ?
That, as much as anything else, is what enables it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 4:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ah, yes, that was it. Thanx Oonj...that one really left my jaw on the ground.

Been listening to some pundits who have been discussing Romney's penchant for out-and-out, bald-faced lying...apparently it's a habit of long standings.



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Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:24 AM

OONJERAH


Quote Frem: "Cav, I've KNOWN it, since I was maybe eight years old - the millstone of that weight,
that knowledge, in the face of everyone elses self-deception and denial, has colored my life,
personality, very being ..."

So you wanted to shake things up in hopes that some undeniable truths would show clear.
For this you were called a Trouble-Maker, and shunned on both sides?
I am familiar with this.
As a kid, I was not near as brave as you, & wore blinders a very long time.
Part of it was the siblings. All of us would be punished for the things
that only I said. Often I stuffed it to spare the others.

I also was not a voracious reader, didn't learn so much as you. I hid.



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Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:14 AM

OONJERAH



U.S. Pays Families of Afghan Victims in Massacre by Soldier =>
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/world/asia/us-compensates-afghan-vil
lagers-for-soldiers-attack.html


"KABUL, Afghanistan — The families of 16 Afghan villagers who were killed
this month by a rampaging American soldier were given $50,000 by the
United States for each of their relatives who died, Afghan and American
officials said."




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Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:23 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


BTW. From Friday.

Quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) - Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales is expected to be told he faces 17 counts of murder and six counts of attempted murder, along with other charges, in connection with a shooting rampage in two southern Afghanistan villages that shocked Americans back home and further roiled U.S.-Afghan relations.

The charges come almost two weeks after the massacre in which Bales allegedly left his base in the early morning hours and shot Afghans, including women and nine children, while they slept in their beds, then burned some of the bodies.

Bales will be read the charges on Friday at the military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., where he has been held since being flown from Afghanistan last week, a U.S. official said.

In addition to murder and attempted murder, the charges will include six counts of aggravated assault as well as a number of other violations of military law, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the charges before they were announced.

The 38-year-old soldier and father of two, who lives in Lake Tapps, Wash., faces trial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but it could be months before any public hearing.

Military authorities had originally said Bales was suspected in the killing of 16 Afghan villagers, nine children and seven adults. They changed that Thursday to 17, raising the number of adults by one but without explaining how the change came about. It's possible some of the dead were buried before U.S. military officials arrived at the scene of the carnage. Six Afghans were wounded in the attack.



http://www.wtop.com/?nid=209&sid=2784221

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Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:48 AM

1KIKI

To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. - Thomas Paine The American Crisis


"Be honest with me here, brother Anarchist, did you really think our nation was THIS fucking radically insane as we've proven to be in the last 10 years?"

I was talking with my Ethiopian friend the other day - who'd been through the revolution to depose the king, then was jailed for knowing a military leader in the past as a schoolmate - and he said rather sadly - people can unlearn civilization. We saw it in Rwanda, we saw it in Czechoslovakia.

You CAN take people who have lived peaceably side by side for decades, even centuries, and turn them at each others throats.

The US has never been a shining beacon of humanity, but from time to time we seem to struggle to some semblance of light. Then it goes dark again.

I heard something the other day - this state of our union has been in the works for quite some time. And I agree. The New Deal was a major set-back. The Great Society, the Civil Rights Movement, and the Woman's Movement were a reminder. Ever since Ronald Reagan the powerful have been cultivating self-righteousness and anger and hate to make people tools for their use. This I think is the result.


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Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:25 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


A manprice? This isn't old Ireland where you'd do that if you killed someone. I didn't know people still did that today. I find that a bit unsettling actually.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise

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Monday, March 26, 2012 7:43 PM

OONJERAH


And now ...
..
. . .
Afghan security forces kill 3 NATO troops =>
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g60230ON79PMKyaN4XeW
HhJCRl-Q?docId=93964d8e9ba344a1bac08c3ea30dbcf6


"KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — Afghan security forces shot and killed
one American and two British troops in two separate incidents, the
latest in a rising number of attacks in which Afghan forces have
turned their weapons on their foreign partners.

"Monday's killings reflect a spike in tensions between Afghan and
international forces ..."

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Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:54 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
A manprice? This isn't old Ireland where you'd do that if you killed someone. I didn't know people still did that today.



Apparently the payment of blood money has been part of Afghan law off and on for the last couple of centuries.

Quote:

Pashtun norms of criminal law are based on the notion of restorative justice
rather than on the notion of retributive justice relied upon in Western and international
law. Rather than being sent to prison for a wrong committed, the wrongdoer is asked to
pay Poar, or blood money, to the victim and to ask for forgiveness.



http://theilf.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/reports-ilfa-customary-la
ws.pdf


"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, March 28, 2012 2:54 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Yeah that does seem like something they might do over there, I was just surprised that the US was doing it, maybe they thought that would be the accepted way to handle it? It sounds like the Afghanis don't feel like that's enough though, which makes sense to me.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, April 13, 2012 3:10 PM

OONJERAH



Attorney tells Afghanistan shooting suspect not to participate in sanity-board hearing =>
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/13/4412548/attorney-tells-afghanistan-sh
ooting.html


SEATTLE -- Staff Sgt. Robert Bales has been instructed by his civilian attorney
to not participate in an Army sanity-board process scheduled for this spring that
would determine whether the Joint Base Lewis-McChord soldier is fit to undergo
a court-martial on charges of murdering 17 Afghan civilians.

The attorney, John Henry Browne, said that base officials denied defense requests
that included allowing counsel to be present at the board proceeding, make a record-
ing of the proceeding and to put a neuropsychologist on the board.

"We have asked that these ill-advised decisions be reconsidered, no response so far,"
Browne said in a statement released Friday.

Browne said that his client has a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent and not
participate in the sanity-board process.



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.


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Sunday, November 11, 2012 7:37 PM

OONJERAH


Preliminary Hearing

Robert Bales Trial Brings Harrowing Testimonies

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/11/robert-bales-trial-afghanista
n-massacre-testimonies_n_2112928.html


JOINT BASE LEWIS-McCHORD, Wash. —
The soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians watched
as child after child described the bloodbath that left their
parents and other loved ones dead. Whatever reaction Staff
Sgt. Robert Bales might have had, he kept hidden behind a
calm face.


=========================

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Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:13 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
A manprice? This isn't old Ireland where you'd do that if you killed someone. I didn't know people still did that today.



Apparently the payment of blood money has been part of Afghan law off and on for the last couple of centuries.

Quote:

Pashtun norms of criminal law are based on the notion of restorative justice
rather than on the notion of retributive justice relied upon in Western and international
law. Rather than being sent to prison for a wrong committed, the wrongdoer is asked to
pay Poar, or blood money, to the victim and to ask for forgiveness.



http://theilf.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/reports-ilfa-customary-la
ws.pdf


"Keep the Shiny side up"



That's the way it used to be in USA, before jails and police (who call themselves "pigs") were invented by the Prison Slave Complex that extorts $75,000 per prisoner from the taxslaves.

This was a group mass murder by US troops, who pinned the blame on a brain-damaged patsy. The military is terrified of that fact being proved in a court of martial law.

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Sunday, November 11, 2012 9:17 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Attorney tells Afghanistan shooting suspect not to participate in sanity-board hearing =>
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/04/13/4412548/attorney-tells-afghanistan-sh
ooting.html


SEATTLE -- Staff Sgt. Robert Bales has been instructed by his civilian attorney
to not participate in an Army sanity-board process scheduled for this spring that
would determine whether the Joint Base Lewis-McChord soldier is fit to undergo
a court-martial on charges of murdering 17 Afghan civilians.

The attorney, John Henry Browne, said that base officials denied defense requests
that included allowing counsel to be present at the board proceeding, make a record-
ing of the proceeding and to put a neuropsychologist on the board.

"We have asked that these ill-advised decisions be reconsidered, no response so far,"
Browne said in a statement released Friday.

Browne said that his client has a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent and not
participate in the sanity-board process.



. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.




If his lawyer fails to get his own psych doctor to test the defendant, then he's sellign out his client. Every disability or personal injury case requires 2 doctors to testify as expert witnesses -- one for each side. In disability cases, the govt lawyer always lies, but the law requires that the patient's own doctor's opinion always has precedence in court.

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