REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Re: A.L.E.C.

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, March 31, 2012 07:24
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 616
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, March 2, 2012 12:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I never hear of ALEC before last week's Occupy protests in many cities nationwide, so I looked it up:
Quote:

The American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) is a politically conservative [1] 501(c)(3) nonprofit policy organization, consisting of both state legislators and members of the private sector, mostly representing corporations. ALEC's mission statement describes the organization's purpose as the advancement of free-market principles, limited government, federalism, and individual liberty. Among other activities, the group provides a venue for private individuals and corporations to assist politicians in developing what it considers model laws serving the economic and political aims of its members. ALEC also serves as a networking tool among state legislators, allowing them to research the handling and "best practices" of policy in other states.

In March 2011, in the midst of protests surrounding Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's collective bargaining restrictions, William Cronon, a historian who teaches at the University of Wisconsin devoted the first post on his newly-established Scholar as Citizen blog to the largely behind-the-scenes role of the little-covered ALEC in working for the passage of ideologically conservative legislation at the state level, pointing out that neither the model legislation which ALEC produces, nor the list of elected officials who are members of ALEC are publicly available.[14] [15] This resulted in the issuing of a FOIA request by the Wisconsin Republican Party to obtain all e-mail from Cronon's university account relating to Republican topics; Paul Krugman and the American Historical Association defended Cronon's right to conduct public political research, and decried the action as an apparent attempt at intimidation.

On July 13, 2011, the Center for Media and Democracy[18] and The Nation published a file leak which made available more than 800 pieces of ALEC's model legislation, brought to them by an organizer of the Cincinnati ALEC protest. The files were leaked to the organizer, Aliya Rahman, via a two-point connection to a source inside ALEC.[19]

For ALEC Exposed, the Center for Media and Democracy made a new website [20] to house over 800 ALEC "model" bills which were previously unavailable to the public.

On July 14, 2011, the Los Angeles Times announced that government watchdog Common Cause would issue a challenge to ALEC's nonprofit status, on the grounds that ALEC "spends most of its resources lobbying, in violation of the rules governing nonprofit organizations."[31]

On July 21, 2011, Terry Gross interviewed Louisiana Representative Noble Ellington, the current national chairman of ALEC, about the group's corporate members' role in drafting legislation. Gross, commenting on the fact that it is impossible for non-members to know whether pieces of legislation introduced in statehouses are based on ALEC models, asked if Ellington thought the process was transparent. Ellington responded saying, "[w]hile we may be discussing it, it may not be transparent, but before it's passed, legislators have to say, 'We approve this model legislation.' Not the corporations. They don't have a vote. Legislators say [what is introduced]. ... And then the legislators can introduce that legislation in [their] state. It goes through a committee, the public has input, they have an opportunity to talk to their legislators about the legislation — so I don't see how you can get more transparent than that." When asked if the public had a voice in the process Ellington responded that the "taxpaying public is represented there at the table because I'm there." (!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_Council

I'm new to this, so I thought others here might be as well. Do you get what this means? Corporations get together with legislators to get legislators to write bills furthering their own interests. Legislators then pass those bills. And the organization that does all this is NON-PROFIT!

Is this democracy?!?! Not in my opinion!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 2, 2012 1:12 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bumping this because I can't believe I'm the only person here who knows about ALEC or decries their activities. It was a GORGEOUS day on the Bay, you could almost even make out the Farallons and the dogs ran their asses off on the beach. Now I'm back in the ugly world of politics...so I'm going to quit and go do my marketing. Will come back tomorrow in the hopes someone picks up on this, cuz I'd like to hear others' opinions on it...



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 2, 2012 1:41 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Hello,

I'd never heard of this, but I'm not really surprised. I would be equally not surprised if the Democrats had something like this going on. In fact, I wouldn't even be surprised if there were organizations like this suggesting legislation to both parties at the same time.

Perhaps in a less formal fashion, I bet there have been groups suggesting legislation to lawmakers almost since the inception of the nation.

As long as the laws are available to the public before they are voted on, I don't think we can really cry foul. You can pretty much bet that any new law, no matter who introduces it, is crafted with an eye towards benefitting one or more private parties/businesses.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 2, 2012 10:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh there's TONS of these - such and such foundation, or this n that fund, usually innocuous names, but all with an agenda.

Most of my focus has been on predators using them to funnel money to candidates under the guise of 'free speech', like the so-called Free Speech Foundation (actually a front for Disney/Infoseek) which flat out BOUGHT a re-interpretation of child protection law to mean exactly opposite what it said one DAY before Patrick Naughton was to be sentenced for it, thus embarassing the hell out of Disney, for example.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 18, 2012 5:06 PM

OONJERAH



Not a scintilla of difference between Republicans and Democrats? => http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30778.htm
By Dennis S (His first article at "Information Clearing House")
Among other things, he talks about the money and ALEC.




NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 18, 2012 10:26 PM

OONJERAH





NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, March 18, 2012 11:55 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:



ALEC's mission statement describes the organization's purpose as the advancement of free-market principles, limited government, federalism, and individual liberty



Sounds to me like a fine bunch of reubens.

They're doing good works, from the sounds of it.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 19, 2012 6:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oonj, yup, that's what I'm talking about.
Quote:

Through malicious Voter ID bills, republicans are attempting to suppress the poor and black vote as it is. Democrats aren’t. The assorted state Voter ID bills are hand-delivered by the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). ALEC is a membership organization, founded in 1973 and it pretty much runs all of the red state legislatures and a few blue ones. ALEC is composed primarily of the most powerful U.S. corporations and well over 2,000 of the nation’s state legislators. Dues are $100 for a two-year legislative membership and up to $25,000 for corporations depending on the level of influence purchased. Among the corporations that have paid membership dues to ALEC are Pfizer and virtually all major pharmaceuticals, Exxon-Mobile, Koch Industries and Koch-owned Georgia-Pacific, AT & T, State Farm, Coca Cola, McDonalds, UPS and FedEx, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Comcast, GM, Wal-Mart…if it’s a multi-billion dollar corporation, it’s an ALEC member. The Gates Foundation recently gave ALEC a gift of $375,000.

Every year ALEC holds about 4 meetings or Summits for corporations and legislators. They’re usually held in resort settings and the corporate types and legislators get together where the power boys tell the state representatives and senators (especially the newbies) what they want. ALEC then writes model legislation or templates that are subsequently introduced into state legislatures (often verbatim) as if the elected officials themselves put them together. They didn’t. There are about 800-1,000 pieces of ALEC model legislation making the rounds every year, about a quarter of which pass. Major legislative target areas are Voter ID, the environment, tax policies, health care, privatizing education, worker’s rights (read kill unions) and deregulation.

Each state has an ALEC organization headed by 4 chairpersons…a state senator, a state representative and 2 corporate representatives. Republican membership is well into the 90 percentile. The tiny percentage of democrats who do belong are almost all of the blue dog variety.

Someone needs to show me anything NEARLY as powerful on the left before I believe they're both the same!



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 26, 2012 11:04 AM

OONJERAH


Quote: "the organization's purpose as the advancement of free-market principles, limited government, federalism, and individual liberty ..."

OK. Just so I understand: Is that individual liberty for me? Or for the Very Rich?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, March 26, 2012 12:13 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


For corporations and the Very Rich. We're just the serfs, remember?

To give you the pertinent high points:
Quote:

A.L.E.C. (the American Legislative Exchange Council) is a politically conservative nonprofit policy organization, consisting of both state legislators and members of the private sector, mostly representing corporations.Behind closed doors, corporations hand state legislators bills they desire that directly benefit their bottom line which are passed, almost word for word, by the legislators. For example, the Florida Stand Your Ground law allowed the legal killing of Trayvon Martin, was identical to a bill proposed by ALEC. ALEC also is working to toughen voter ID laws, successful so far in 18 states. ALEC supports public subsidies for private schools, development of privately-owned prisons, and restrictions on voting rights.

It has financed campaigns for and against state ballot issues, and helped elect thousands of state senators and representatives willing to champion ALEC bills at state capitols. In the past decade, ALEC’s corporate leaders have invested more than $370 million in unlimited, secret corporate spending on behalf of political candidates and parties in state elections. Legislators also benefit by receiving an all-expenses-paid "vacation". For a few hours of work on a task force and a couple of indoctrination sessions by ALEC experts, legislators can rub shoulders with major prospective out-of-state donors to their political campaigns and bring the whole famil to stay in swank hotels, attend parties, even strip clubs, all heavily subsidized by the corporate till. In 2009, ALEC spent $251,873 on childcare so mom and dad could have fun.

More than 98% of ALEC's revenues come from unelected corporate representatives (often registered lobbyists), corporate trade groups, and corporate foundations who sit as equals with your elected representatives. ALEC describes itself as a non-partisan and non-profit, but it currently has one Democrat out of 104 legislators, while its members, speakers, alumni, and award winners are a “who’s who” of the extreme right.

A few examples: Altria/Philip Morris USA benefits from extremely narrow tax break for moist tobacco that would make fruit flavored tobacco products cheaper and more attractive to youngsters. Health insurance companies benefit directly from ALEC model bills. Pharmaceutical firms benefit directly from ALEC tort reform, which makes it harder for Americans to sue when injured by dangerous products. Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) benefits directly from legislation that requires expanded incarceration and housing of immigrants. Connections Academy, an online education corporation, benefits from ALEC measures to privatize public education and promote private on-line schools.

That about covers the important points. They write the laws, hand them to the legislators, who pass them.

Oh, and a lot of their funding comes from guess who? Give you a hint...it starts with a "K".

ETA: Raptor, an organization can adopt any "mission statement". Mission statements are written to sound good. It's what the organization DOES that counts, and what ALEC does is create a corpocracy. Wait 'till they write a bill that goes against what YOU believe in and affects YOU, then you'll see. Tho' they'll probably never do so, since you're already in the pocket of corporate interests.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:57 PM

OONJERAH


This Is Off Topic - About Budget Cuts

My friend MT says: "Want to see what would happen if Republicans
and Libertarians had their way with the budget? Watch this."

Carolyn Federoff is fighting for our country.





Starts off: In 2011, USA had 2.3 trillion to spend, & spent 3.6 trillion.
Then she shows us how to balance that budget by cutting alone, no taxes.

Ms. Federoff has a good point. I quit trying to listen halfway thru part 2.
Her delivery is incredibly bad, unless you just like to hear screaming.
There must be a better way to present this important information.

More: http://afgeunionblog.wordpress.com/2012/02/14/annual-legislative-confe
rence-round-up
/



NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, March 30, 2012 6:33 PM

OONJERAH


(Are these the musings of a lady Troll?)

Protesters Demonstrate in Front of ALEC Over Stand Your Ground Law in Florida
http://www.policymic.com/articles/6221/george-zimmerman-has-every-righ
t-to-use-alec-inspired-stand-your-ground-defense/category_list


"On Thursday in Washington, D.C., people surrounded a conservative
think tank, the American Legislative Exchange Council, to protest
the controversial "Stand Your Ground" law that has played a part
in Trayvon Martin’s death in Florida. ALEC helped promote the law
when it was originally passed in Florida and has played a key role
in helping similar legislation in 20 other states. I’m no expert
on the law but I don’t actually think it’s that terrible of a law.
...
...
"What is so terrible about citizens having the opportunity to protect
themselves? There seems to be plenty of stats showing that crime
decreases, or at the last does not increase, when conceal and carry
laws are passed. Vermont, for example, has one of the lowest crime
rates in America despite the fact that they allow conceal and carry
without a permit. Washington, D.C., on the other hand, a gun-free
zone, has one of the highest crime rates in the country. Coincidence?
I doubt it."

Pretty sure I saw other stats proving the opposite. It's the way of stats.

Honor Trayvon: Call on Corporations To Quit ALEC, Backer of 'Stand Your Ground' Law
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/davidhalperin/american-legislative-excha
nge-council_b_1383722.html


"The story of Trayvon Martin is, first and foremost, a tragedy for his
family, and our hearts go out to them. It's also about things that need
to change, including how powerful interests use their superior resources
to distort the processes of government -- in this case a well-funded
private group, fueled by donations from big corporations: the American
Legislative Exchange Council, or ALEC.

"We want to know why major U.S. corporations support ALEC ..."

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, March 31, 2012 7:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Interesting that it's taken Martin's death and the surrounding furor to bring ALEC to people's attention. I hope it doesn't fade; once you find out about ALEC, it's hard to forget them. Oh, and ALEC didn't "help promote"--they WROTE the law, then spent millions getting it passed in Florida and, once that was done, some 18 other states.

Essentially, the NRA thought up "stand your ground" as a way to sell more guns. They go to ALEC, tell 'em what they want done, ALEC writes the "bill", hands it over to their bought-and-paid-for legislators, who pass it into law WORD FOR WORD. They do that a lot. Without any restrictions lobbyists have.

Superpacs, hell, these guys are WORSE than superpacs. They're WRITING our laws, in essence, as WELL as giving massive donations to get state legislators elected.

And yes, our righties will come back with the Progressive States Network, which some regard as the left-wing "equivalent" of ALEC, but there are huge differences.
Quote:

Progressive States acts as a "war room" to equip legislators with the information they need to advocate good policy. With an up-to-the-minute news service at their website, the group acts as an information hub that keeps legislators up-to-date on progressive news from other states, helps them identify trends and emboldens them to educate each other on how to succeed.

In short, by supporting state legislators and other groups in their efforts to spark progressive actions and get good ideas passed into law, Progressive States proves that state policy matters, and that good policy leads to good politics for all.

They don't WRITE the bills for legislators, and they don't give them "paid vacations" for the whole family. As far as I can tell, they don't put potential campaign contributors together with candidates, nor donate to candidates themselves. They don't avoid transparency, they work to get corporate and legislative transparency legislation enacted.

Here's some of what they're doing, from CONSERVATIVE websites who are anti-CSN:
Quote:

There is a well-organized “progressive” organization that is currently in operation. The Progressive States Network coordinates efforts across states to pass “progressive” legislation. As with all “progressive” legislation, these tend to limit freedom, cost jobs, corrupt elections, and increase the power of government. Some of the issues being undertaken by the PSN include:

•Paid Sick Days – Require employers to provide paid sick days to employees for them to take care of their own illness, that of a family member, or deal with domestic violence.

•Election Reforms to Help Drive Turnout in 2010 and 2012 – Enact legislation to increase voter turnout, including improved public assistance agency compliance with the National Voter Registration Act (NVRA), allowing all voters to vote by mail, and making presidential elections competitive in every state by implementing a national popular vote for the President.

•Prescription Drug Reforms: Reducing Costs and Improving Quality – Enact an integrated prescription drug policy to curb costly industry marketing practices, promote generic medications and join multi-state collaboratives to pool state purchasing power.

•Corporate Transparency in State Budgets – Require full public information about how corporate interests benefiting from government contracts, economic subsidies and tax breaks are spending the money received.

•Green Buildings – Implement policies aimed at making new and existing buildings more environmentally friendly.

•Foreclosure and Predatory Lending Reform – Require lenders to use mediation, require proper maintenance of foreclosed homes, give homeowners right to rent former homes, increase state enforcement powers, and give whistle-blower protections to employees at lending institutions. http://conservativehideout.com/2010/09/13/the-progressive-states-netwo
rk-undermining-liberty-one-state-at-a-time/
bad guys, huh?

Meanwhile, further on ALEC:
Quote:

In March 2011, in the midst of protests surrounding Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's Wisconsin Budget Repair Bill, William Cronon, a historian who teaches at the University of Wisconsin devoted the first post on his newly-established Scholar as Citizen blog to the largely behind-the-scenes role of the little-covered ALEC in working for the passage of ideologically conservative legislation at the state level, pointing out that neither the model legislation which ALEC produces, nor the list of elected officials who are members of ALEC are publicly available. This resulted in the issuing of a FOIA request by the Wisconsin Republican Party to obtain all e-mail from Cronon's university account relating to Republican topics.

On July 21, 2011, Terry Gross interviewed Louisiana Representative Noble Ellington, the current national chairman of ALEC, about the group's corporate members' role in drafting legislation. Gross, commenting on the fact that it is impossible for non-members to know whether pieces of legislation introduced in statehouses are based on ALEC models, asked if Ellington thought the process was transparent. Ellington responded saying, "[w]hile we may be discussing it, it may not be transparent, but before it's passed, legislators have to say, 'We approve this model legislation.' Not the corporations. They don't have a vote."

In November 2011, Florida State Representative Rachel Burgin (R), introduced legislation to call on the federal government to reduce corporate taxes. The text still included the boilerplate "WHEREAS: it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance . . ." While the bill was quickly withdrawn and the phrase removed, returning as HM717, Common Cause blogger Nick Surgey explained the greater significance:

"With some justification, you might ask why this really matters: even if this bill passed it wouldn’t force Congress to act. However, I think it matters because the states play a very significant role in setting the national agenda. Corporations know this, which is why they frequently use ALEC to secretly introduce their model bills, creating the impression of widespread popular uproar in the state houses. In recent years they have used this mechanism for both attacks on the EPA’s regulation of greenhouse gases (ALEC bill introduced in 22 states) and in pushing back against the Affordable Care Act (ALEC bill introduced in 44 states)."
Surgey went on to comment:

"It matters who writes our laws and it matters who stands to benefit from them. When these are the very same entity, then we as citizens should have the right to know this." Wikipedia

Lastly,
Quote:

This organization's stated goal is to get government off of our backs and let the free market reign and regulate itself. It would be one thing if this objective was meant to benefit American citizens, but the double speak of the word "our" here becomes apparent when one looks at who benefits from such proposals. Everyday hard-working Americans do not benefit from deregulated businesses that pollute our air and drinking water or make public school too expensive for the working class.

While lobbyists have been around for ages trying to influence legislative actions in politics, ALEC takes it a step further by enacting legislation at the state level in a coordinated effort of influence. Further, every citizen of our democratic republic does not get to vote on such legislation. This is what makes it especially dangerous. Democracy gets thrown out of the window when citizens are bypassed by corporate entities that dictate new legislation. http://www.policymic.com/article/show?id=1402 model bills are introduced in multiple places creating consistent messages across the country, to make it appear tha there is public outcry for their legislation. One state strategy is to introduce a lot of bills so proponents can’t do away with all of them at one time.

Almost 98% of ALEC's funding comes from corporations like Exxon Mobil, corporate "foundations" like the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation, or trade associations like the pharmaceutical industry's PhRMA and sources other than "legislative dues." Those funds help subsidize legislators' trips to ALEC meetings, where they are wined, dined, and handed "model" legislation to make law in their state.

ALEC legislative dues really amount to window dressing. Take 2009, for example. That year, legislative dues came to $82,891, and all the corporate tax-free donations and other income amounted to $6.1 million. Legislative dues barely would cover ALEC's own pension plan, and they did not cover even half of the compensation of ALEC's executive director that year (which was $189,833, not counting his severance pay of an additional $54,615). ALEC wrote off more bad debts ($100,000) than it received from legislative dues in 2009.

There is no public disclosure of annual gifts the company gives to take part in the one-stop shopping ALEC conventions provide to meet with legislators from every state about their wish list. The Charles G. Koch Foundation also funds Koch interns and fellows who have worked for ALEC, and Koch foundation "experts" have also provided help, such as analysis attacking the pay of public state employees. And ALEC's Board of "Scholars" includes people who also receive Koch funding or are work for Koch-funded groups.

Other right-wing foundations have also supported ALEC, far beyond the "dues" paid by any legislator. ALEC claims to have over 300 corporate "members," and each pay between $7,000 and $25,000 or more to be members, plus fees to have a vote on a task force and for other sponsorships. The names of all of these entities is not known. The Exxon corporation and its foundation have given a combined total to ALEC in the past decade or so of over $1.4 million. Other current ALEC corporate leaders have given an undisclosed sum to ALEC

ALEC conventions are not close to break-even operations, financially, but they are a bonanza for marrying state legislators with the wealthy captains of industry (and their lobbyists) at luncheons, dinners, golf outings, skeet shooting, boat rides, cigar smoking parties, and other events to help politicians and corporations bond. The conventions also provide ALEC with a vehicle to indoctrinate legislators with so-called "experts" on issues related to ALEC's model legislation. Many of these experts are funded by the same group of right-wing corporate foundations that fund ALEC.

ALEC has stated that because actual "laws are not passed, debated or adopted during this process," "therefore no lobbying takes place. That process is done at the state legislatures." Yet ALEC is spending millions of dollars to ensure that corporate wish lists get in the hands of legislators, that the legislators vote for the legislation behind closed doors through ALEC, as do corporations, and then that the politicians who are leaders of ALEC introduce those very bills and get them made into law. ( http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/07/10887/cmd-special-report-alecs-fun
ding-and-spending
)



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Meanwhile in Gaza.
Tue, July 29, 2014 18:52 - 40 posts
SARAH PALIN TV Channel!!!!!
Tue, July 29, 2014 18:43 - 4 posts
Obama's Chicago provides warzone experience
Tue, July 29, 2014 18:41 - 15 posts
One guilty pleasure regarding the Illegal Aliens Obamination is bringing in.
Tue, July 29, 2014 17:54 - 5 posts
Getting fit by 3mins of exercise a week?
Tue, July 29, 2014 17:38 - 101 posts
Tooday's Collegium Gradutates
Tue, July 29, 2014 17:30 - 22 posts
The NFL - beating women less offensive than talking bad about gays, or getting free tattoos.
Tue, July 29, 2014 17:23 - 59 posts
Obama is the Killer of our Economy... isn't he-?
Tue, July 29, 2014 17:18 - 35 posts
I think this man makes a valid point.
Tue, July 29, 2014 13:16 - 43 posts
US: Russia firing artillery at Ukraine military
Tue, July 29, 2014 12:05 - 22 posts
Meanwhile, back in Libya
Tue, July 29, 2014 11:49 - 70 posts
Coffee - Cheers!
Mon, July 28, 2014 22:47 - 129 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL

OUR SPONSORS