REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The War on Women in America

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:07
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8311
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Monday, March 5, 2012 12:43 PM

OONJERAH



     Is this OT ... I hope?

We have 7,000,000,000 (7 billion) people on this little planet.

Free birth control would be provided for every fertile woman in the world who wants it
... in a sane world.



Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Monday, March 5, 2012 12:49 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It's interesting about what gets covered, or not, and why. And btw how they draw the lines differently depending ... for example, under the old NYS 'blue laws' only food and other essential items could be sold on Sunday. So baby bottle couldn't be sold, but a thermometer - as a medical item - could. To me what it illustrates more than anything else is that money is the basic reason to NOT cover OTC items that are clearly medical. Why shouldn't condoms be covered but exercise bands should? It's not like one is more 'medical' than the other.

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Monday, March 5, 2012 12:57 PM

OONJERAH



     This link, I posted yesterday, with the URL bill-maher-makes-joke-about-rick-santorums-wife-using-sex-toy,
and after viewing Maher's video, I reported that he said no such thing.
=> http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/02/18/bill-maher-makes
-joke-about-rick-santorums-wife-using-sex-toy


It is, in fact, a video of Bill Maher making fun of Rick Santorum by displaying and quoting Rick's Tweets.
And I am left to wonder, Does Rick really tweet? And if so, did he tweet anything that Maher claimed?
Perhaps Maher's humor depends on misquoting everyone?

That's where the English was good enough for Jesus quote came in.
I don't Twitter OR Facebook, so I won't be checking the source.    


Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Monday, March 5, 2012 1:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Best as I can guess - Bill Maher was poking fun at Santorum by broadcasting fake satirical Santorum tweets.

Oh, I missed your apology. I read it and then I felt bad. Sometimes I get het up.

I'm sorry.

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Monday, March 5, 2012 1:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

     This link, I posted yesterday, with the URL bill-maher-makes-joke-about-rick-santorums-wife-using-sex-toy,
and after viewing Maher's video, I reported that he said no such thing.
=> http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/02/18/bill-maher-makes
-joke-about-rick-santorums-wife-using-sex-toy


It is, in fact, a video of Bill Maher making fun of Rick Santorum by displaying and quoting Rick's Tweets.
And I am left to wonder, Does Rick really tweet? And if so, did he tweet anything that Maher claimed?
Perhaps Maher's humor depends on misquoting everyone?

That's where the English was good enough for Jesus quote came in.
I don't Twitter OR Facebook, so I won't be checking the source.    


Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.




Yup, the "joke" was that these were the kinds of things Maher IMAGINES Frothy to be tweeting.




"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, March 5, 2012 2:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki: So if SOME OTC items are recognized as legitimate health expenses - why not others?


If a person breaks their leg, and needs crutches, then yes, that should be covered. If someone wants to have sex, so the hell what ? Let them pay for what ever they feel they need, be it condoms, birth control, E.D. pills or baby oil.

Do you NOT see the difference ?

No one is being DENIED these things.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, March 5, 2012 2:07 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki: So if SOME OTC items are recognized as legitimate health expenses - why not others?



If a person breaks their leg, and needs crutches, then yes, that should be covered. If someone wants to have sex, so the hell what ? Let them pay for what ever they feel they need, be it condoms, birth control, E.D. pills or baby oil.

Do you NOT see the difference ?

No one is being DENIED these things.





What about someone who has Type 2 diabetes due to their bad diet? Should anything be covered for them?

What if they have Hepatitis C from unsafe practices?

What if they're injured in a car or motorcycle wreck? Nobody NEEDS to drive, right? Shouldn't that be entirely their responsibility?



Do you believe pregnancy is a medical condition?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, March 5, 2012 2:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Exercise bands aren't like condoms? How are they different?

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Monday, March 5, 2012 10:03 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


In that long Rush tyrade that Kiki posted it I saw "I'm 61" and thought Kiki was telling us how old she is, since she didn't participate in our "how old are you" thread but claimed to be one of the oldest here. I was most disappointed to see that it was all copied from Rush, so it was his age that I saw (note that I was totally skimming so that's why I momentarily thought it might not be part of the Rush monologue.

Well all I know is that my SIL is at the hospital pushing my new nephew out right now, I think maybe she doesn't believe in birth control because she was talking just the other day about how her friends are betting that she'll be pregnant again within four months of having this one. Its kind of funny to think of an atheist who doesn't believe in birth control, but I'll keep ya posted. I'm just excited about having another nephew, I'll be auntie to as many kids as they want to make. They're having my share as well as their own since I'm not having any.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:

Well all I know is that my SIL is at the hospital pushing my new nephew out right now, I think maybe she doesn't believe in birth control because she was talking just the other day about how her friends are betting that she'll be pregnant again within four months of having this one. Its kind of funny to think of an atheist who doesn't believe in birth control, but I'll keep ya posted. I'm just excited about having another nephew, I'll be auntie to as many kids as they want to make. They're having my share as well as their own since I'm not having any.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



Congrats on the new arrival. Hope all are healthy and well.

Not real sure what being an atheist has to do w/ not using contraception though... O.o

It's simple cause and effect. I'd think any atheist could understand THAT.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 10:02 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Just pointing out that 'fair and balanced' Geezer couldn't bring himself to express how he SO disagrees with what his side does, no matter how vile.


Why do you expect more of others then you do of yourself?

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 10:05 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Just pointing out that 'fair and balanced' Geezer couldn't bring himself to express how he SO disagrees with what his side does, no matter how vile.


Why do you expect more of others then you do of yourself?



If you are saying Nik doesn't complain about actions by those on the left, you are either lying or you are deliberately ininformed.



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 10:08 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

If you are saying Nik doesn't complain about actions by those on the left, you are either lying or you are deliberately ininformed.


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



Complaining that those on the Left aren't far enough to the Left, isn't exactly complaining.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 10:10 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
If you are saying Nik doesn't complain about actions by those on the left, you are either lying or you are deliberately ininformed.


Neither.
Your reading comprehension could use a little work though.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 10:39 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
If you are saying Nik doesn't complain about actions by those on the left, you are either lying or you are deliberately ininformed.


Neither.
Your reading comprehension could use a little work though.



I comprehended you just fine. I just question your honesty.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:09 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I comprehended you just fine. I just question your honesty.


So you honestly thought I was questioning Niki when I directly quoted 1kiki? Do you comprehend the difference between two apparently different posters? I understand they have similar names but...

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I comprehended you just fine. I just question your honesty.


So you honestly thought I was questioning Niki when I directly quoted 1kiki? Do you comprehend the difference between two apparently different posters? I understand they have similar names but...



Oh, SHE knows, but she thinks YOU don't know, and because of that, she feels that it's perfectly fine to question YOUR reading skills.

See how this works ? Doesn't matter what you say, it's what she BELIEVES you really meant to say, that's what matters.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:18 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I comprehended you just fine. I just question your honesty.


So you honestly thought I was questioning Niki when I directly quoted 1kiki? Do you comprehend the difference between two apparently different posters? I understand they have similar names but...



LOL. Fair enough, ya got me. Though that's hardly a matter of reading comprehension in regards to your post. But yes - I got the wrong name.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:21 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Oh, SHE knows, but she thinks YOU don't know, and because of that, she feels that it's perfectly fine to question YOUR reading skills.

See how this works ? Doesn't matter what you say, it's what she BELIEVES you really meant to say, that's what matters.





HA!

Holy shit.... Looks like Im not the only one who was confused.

Bet Im the only one with the balls to admit it, though.

But look at you getting all cute, trying to use my words against me. Completely ignorant of the context, but its a funny attempt, Ill give you that.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:37 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
But look at you getting all cute, trying to use my words against me. Completely ignorant of the context, but its a funny attempt, Ill give you that.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




The trick is not CARING !



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 3:11 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Just pointing out that 'fair and balanced' Geezer couldn't bring himself to express how he SO disagrees with what his side does, no matter how vile.


Why do you expect more of others then you do of yourself?




Does it have to be in that order?

Do you comprehend the difference between two completely different words? I understand they have similar spellings but...

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 9:09 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Raptor, of course Atheists can do whatever they like, I'm just saying that, statistically, finding an Atheist who doesn't believe in birth control is probably harder than finding a Christian who doesn't, though I'd be hard pressed to find a Christian who doesn't either since most everyone believes in preventative controception no matter what they believe about other things, but I could dredge a few up.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 1:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Raptor, of course Atheists can do whatever they like, I'm just saying that, statistically, finding an Atheist who doesn't believe in birth control is probably harder than finding a Christian who doesn't, though I'd be hard pressed to find a Christian who doesn't either since most everyone believes in preventative controception no matter what they believe about other things, but I could dredge a few up.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



Atheist not wanting to USE birth control, I can get. But not 'believing' in it... I'm stumped at that one. I mean, it reminds me of this classic...



Which is all well and good for some, but I can't see how an atheist would see things that way.



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 3:44 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


Bet Im the only one with the balls to admit it, though.



Yep, called it.



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 4:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


Bet Im the only one with the balls to admit it, though.



Yep, called it.




Wow, really? You're so petty and full of yourself, that you took the time to reply to... you ?

Good grief... let go the hate.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 6:22 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Atheist not wanting to USE birth control, I can get. But not 'believing' in it... I'm stumped at that one. I mean, it reminds me of this classic...


Some atheists believe in morality judgments, even when what they have to prompt those beliefs may or may not exactly be called a religion.

Atheists like Richard Dawkins might say that organized religion is evil, and act every bit as bad as a foaming at the mouth fundamentalist accusing different religions for why everything in the world is wrong. He has very strong beliefs.

One atheist might have some idea about life beginning at conception, and so anything to prevent implantation might be murder. Another might concede that the embryotic cells have a different DNA sequence and therefore are a distinct lifeform, but that they are parasitic until born and an abortion is no different than taking medicine to flush out a tapeworm. Others, like myself, focus on the various uncertainties involved in the process, and so the question is more about the social consequences of destroying embryos versus the impact of unplanned or medically complicated/dangerous pregnancies on mothers.

Humans are a varied and eclectic bunch.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 7:27 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:

Well all I know is that my SIL is at the hospital pushing my new nephew out right now, I think maybe she doesn't believe in birth control because she was talking just the other day about how her friends are betting that she'll be pregnant again within four months of having this one. Its kind of funny to think of an atheist who doesn't believe in birth control, but I'll keep ya posted. I'm just excited about having another nephew, I'll be auntie to as many kids as they want to make. They're having my share as well as their own since I'm not having any.



Well some people just want kids, lots of em and quickly. But I would guess there would come a time when your SIL would say 'enough'. Some religious people will just continue to have kids as long as they have sex and the woman is fertile because preventing babies is against their doctrine.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 7:30 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Atheists like Richard Dawkins might say that organized religion is evil, and act every bit as bad as a foaming at the mouth fundamentalist accusing different religions for why everything in the world is wrong. He has very strong beliefs.

One atheist might have some idea about life beginning at conception, and so anything to prevent implantation might be murder. Another might concede that the embryotic cells have a different DNA sequence and therefore are a distinct lifeform, but that they are parasitic until born and an abortion is no different than taking medicine to flush out a tapeworm. Others, like myself, focus on the various uncertainties involved in the process, and so the question is more about the social consequences of destroying embryos versus the impact of unplanned or medically complicated/dangerous pregnancies on mothers.



To be fair to Dawkins he has never said organised religion is evil, and I would say he states his beliefs firmly and without fear of offending others, rather than being a 'foaming at the mouth fundamentalist'

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 7:34 PM

BYTEMITE


In the very least he's dogmatic about his beliefs and doesn't respect anyone who believes differently.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 8:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Ironic, innit ?

Even more so comin from someone who can get occasionally a bit foamy on the topic of religion themself.

-F

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


Bet Im the only one with the balls to admit it, though.



Yep, called it.




Good grief... let go the hate.





But what if he believes his hatred is "justified"?

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 3:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

But what if he believes his hatred is "justified"?



It isn't. But even so, Rush still apologized. Even Bill Maher, dirt bag that he is, sees the hypocrisy in demanding Rush apologize, getting an apology, and then ignoring it, to carry on this phony, contrived 'war on women' charade, which apparently has no exit strategy, at all.


Quote:

Others, like myself, focus on the various uncertainties involved in the process, and so the question is more about the social consequences of destroying embryos versus the impact of unplanned or medically complicated/dangerous pregnancies on mothers.

Humans are a varied and eclectic bunch.



Byte - Careful, you may not test out as a REAL, 100% atheist. And if you're not a PURE atheist, then you're just a poser, and don't know what you're talking about.



Note to self: I wonder how long Anthony will continue with his childish, moronic persecution of others whom he falsely accuses of things for which they're not guilty.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 6:10 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Tosses another caber on the pile.

Utah lawmakers pass bill to curb sex education in schools
http://news.yahoo.com/utah-lawmakers-pass-bill-curb-sex-education-scho
ols-045319709.html


Why not just go the rest of the way and curb education in schools, oh, wait - they're halfway there already, nevermind.
*hisssss*

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 6:16 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Tosses another caber on the pile.

Utah lawmakers pass bill to curb sex education in schools
http://news.yahoo.com/utah-lawmakers-pass-bill-curb-sex-education-scho
ols-045319709.html


Why not just go the rest of the way and curb education in schools, oh, wait - they're halfway there already, nevermind.
*hisssss*

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.



Hello,

Schools are designed to give students the tools they need to meet the challenges of the adult world.

Unless those tools make people uncomfortable, in which case they can do without those tools on their toolbelt. After all, what adult needs to know anything about their reproductive organs?

--Anthony





_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 6:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey Anthony--you're getting to him. I just caught his sig. Keep it up, man.

I'm not getting into the no-sex-education-in-schools bullshit. It's obvious and you hit the nail on the head.

The rest neither needs nor deserves any response. It's just more



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Thursday, March 8, 2012 6:27 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It isn't. But even so, Rush still apologized. Even Bill Maher, dirt bag that he is, sees the hypocrisy in demanding Rush apologize, getting an apology, and then ignoring it, to carry on this phony, contrived 'war on women' charade, which apparently has no exit strategy, at all.



This one doesn't even really require comment. It's funny on multiple levels, all on its own.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 6:30 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:


Bet Im the only one with the balls to admit it, though.



Yep, called it.




Wow, really? You're so petty and full of yourself, that you took the time to reply to... you ?

Good grief... let go the hate.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hate?

Im laughing at you, son.

I admitted a mistake, pointed out one of yours, and predicted you would NEVER aknowledge it - and you proved me right.

Once again.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 6:32 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"16+ paragraphs of absolute b.s."

Yep, that was Rush all right.



Well hell, why don't you just post the transcript of his entire 3 hour show ? Or why not do one better, and post the full WEEK'S worth of transcripts ??



You mean "this few comments"? The ones Rush kept coming back to and expanding on over the course of three days? Yeah, that was probably just a little slip of the tongue.

Quote:


The issue is free birth control not being a 'right'.



Can you please show us all where anyone has said that free birth control is a right? Your mistake is that you keep mixing up "free" with "paid for" and "covered by insurance".

Quote:


This few comments Rush said ? Being completely blown out of proportion? Nothing but a mass hysteria from the Left ( yeah, I know where hysteria comes from... gonna accuse me of hating women for using THAT word too ? Go right ahead, it fits your M.O. ) to distract everyone from the REAL issues.



You'd NEVER do anything like that.

Right?


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill



I honestly don't think he's even following the conversation, or keeping track of the reasons for his objections. He's just playing die-hard contrarian.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 9:15 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
It isn't. But even so, Rush still apologized. Even Bill Maher, dirt bag that he is, sees the hypocrisy in demanding Rush apologize, getting an apology, and then ignoring it, to carry on this phony, contrived 'war on women' charade, which apparently has no exit strategy, at all.



This one doesn't even really require comment. It's funny on multiple levels, all on its own.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




No doubt. Let's see... a phony war... no exit strategy... Wait a sec - Is Rappy saying that REPUBLICANS are behind this latest Limbaugh scandal?!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 9:32 AM

BYTEMITE


Oh snap. You guys, I don't even pay attention to what the lawmakers are doing here during the legislative session any more. I know that I'm generally going to disagree with it, and probably ignore what they have to say anyway.

'Cept maybe that liquor law change I caught wind of. But otherwise...

I found out recently that in Oregon they're reading MacBeth in fifth grade. I was in advanced English classes here, and we didn't read Macbeth until 8th grade. The regular classes didn't read it until highschool.

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:01 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Yup, that's my kids at their school. The fifth grade class performs MacBeth each year, they do shorten it because not all of the kids are into acting, but they study it and they do a great job performing it. My Jasmine was Lady MacBeth, she did great, of course she didn't understand it as fully as she might have at an olderage, but I started studying Shakespeare in fifth grade at school so I'm thrilled that the standard hasn't dominished since my girlhood. I think fifth grade is a great time to begin with Shakespeare. Fifth grade is also a good time to start sex ed because that's the year they transition from little to not little anymore, so its an important time to learn about puberty and anatomy etc. I thought our sex ed at my schools growing up was adequate, we learnt about puberty and basic mechanics first of course, then as we got older we learnt about health issues around sex, STDs, how important safe sex and controception are, things we should know if we're going to start rutting etc. Obviously kids shouldn't be encouraged to rut but they do need to know certain things since some of them will be doing it anyways.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA



*snort*
Back in my day (gawd that makes me sound OLD!) we didn't get it till like eight grade, and the entirety OF it consisted of a 20 minute film basically stating "This is sex, it's bad, don't do it."...

TWENTY YEARS LATER.

My niece went to the same awful school, they didn't offer till TENTH grade, and it was the same fekkin film.
This resulted in a rather horrifying moment in which she confided in me fear that she might be pregnant cause some punk tried to stick his hand down her pants - seriously, no friggin WONDER we have a teen pregnancy issue in that region, yes ?

Of course I disabused her of that notion and then proceeded to explain matters to her over the course of a day or so since no one else had the guts, and piss on the legal technicalities of it.
(depending on how much of a prick the system wants to be, one can actually get in trouble for even explaining such things!)

Damn that pathetic puritan idiocy to the deepest level of hell where it properly belongs.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, March 12, 2012 9:03 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I know a lot about child rearing. One thing that I know for sure is that parents need to be open with their kids about talking about sex. Sure it can be done in an age apropriate way, get more clear and technical as they get older, but the dialogue has to be there so kids know what mom and dad expect, how to be safe, how to not be hurt by others taking advantage etc. Its awful that your niece wasn't told what sex entailed by her parents so she'd know what's what, knowledge is power.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 12, 2012 10:49 AM

OONJERAH



Quote FremdFirma: "depending on how much of a prick the system wants to be, one can actually get in trouble
for even explaining such things!"

Very true and also hypocritical most of the time. Instruction can be considered child molesting.

The child may then be put through therapy to try to fix the damage done by the "instructor." The child will
have no doubt at all that there is something wrong with himself, since he could never talk about sex at home
anyways.

The therapist may make the mistake of speaking plainly to the parents: "It is normal and healthy for your
child to want to know about sex." End of those therapy sessions.

Puritanical attitudes suck.

My Mom's method of sex education, "O! I thought you knew all that!"   End.



             

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Monday, March 12, 2012 11:07 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I think girls need to have the emotional aspects of sex explained (I can't speak for the guys). I think they need to be told that if you don't feel like you can say no, if you don't feel like you can insist on protecting yourself - or even should, if you feel like it's the only thing you've got going for you and your only life-option --- then you aren't ready.

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Monday, March 12, 2012 12:20 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I think girls need to have the emotional aspects of sex explained (I can't speak for the guys). I think they need to be told that if you don't feel like you can say no, if you don't feel like you can insist on protecting yourself - or even should, if you feel like it's the only thing you've got going for you and your only life-option --- then you aren't ready.


Well IMHO that's a critical and integral part of the entire discussion, I mean the mechanics are easy, it's all the other things involved which is why that convo took most of a day, you know.

I did much later issue a stern lecture about the fact that all of the games she was involved in were mutually predatory scammery rather than actual relationships - in order to fend off the predatory in that middle grade suburban neighborhood the general meme is to hook up with the least offensive to keep the more offensive off your case since it's still one of those places where rape is seen as more of a social faux pas than an actual crime and pressing matters will get the GIRL and her family up to the neck in trouble - there's a really dark underbelly to suburbia sometimes even worse than the ghetto...

Doesn't help matters that the worst of em are either relatives of the local politicos or police, but at least she has *some* level of protection there from the strong rumors that her uncle is a mafia enforcer from Detroit - which came about via really old tales of certain hijinks before moving away, and putting the everloving smack down on a local pusher who couldn't seem to get the message to stay the hell away from my sister and her family.

Anyhows her idea of "Relationship" is leading a boy on hinting he might get in her pants while squeezing him for everything she can get, including that protection from the other pinheads, while he tries to weasel his way into her pants without actually offering anything - that's NOT a relationship, that's a freakin low key war.
Sadly, that's prolly the closest to one she's ever likely to have due to her environment and upbringing, most of which is outta my hands, and the enormous trust issues I accidently sparked when I revealed that prettymuch EVERYONE she ever knew or met was lying to her by omission or otherwise.

There's more TO it than just those things, but the concept of relationship can be even MORE of a disaster than the mechanics of sex, and I think both topics are integral to each other, but it's an uphill fight to get society to not lie to the young to begin with, especially girls - doubly so since much of our society lies to and tries to keep ignorant adult women.

I find that profoundly and unacceptably offensive.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, March 12, 2012 5:58 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Hi Kiki, I think that's important for boys to learn too. Sex should be the most mutual and fully concentual-by-both-parties act that we perform in life. When it isn't then there's a problem.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

*snort*
Back in my day (gawd that makes me sound OLD!) we didn't get it till like eight grade, and the entirety OF it consisted of a 20 minute film basically stating "This is sex, it's bad, don't do it."...

TWENTY YEARS LATER.

My niece went to the same awful school, they didn't offer till TENTH grade, and it was the same fekkin film.



Your state was clearly quite a bit more progressive than mine was, then. We got it in ELEVENTH grade. 1979. Hell, by then most of us were already doing it, so it was a bit late to try to warn us how horrible it was!



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 1:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


According to none other than Fox News, there is indeed a war on women, or at least a war on women voters.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/15/yes-there-is-republican-war-
on-women-voters
/

Quote:

While it’s true that President Obama’s re-election campaign is gearing up a major push this week to win over female voters, the fact is that Republicans have been helping him out on this front for weeks.
From the GOP primary to the conservative airwaves, in state legislatures and in Congress, Republicans are playing politics with women’s health and basic liberties, driving a wedge among conservatives and driving women voters toward the Democrats.

It all started with Eve. Adam, whom I suspect was a Republican, was angry that after Eve got his rib, she wanted to vote and get a job and be fairly paid. That ungrateful woman! Adam argued back and then Eve registered as an independent, and eventually became a swing vote soccer mom. But anyway…

Fast-forward to February 2011 when anti-choice Republicans pushed a rogue measure to cut off all federal funding from Planned Parenthood, even though less than 3% of services provided by Planned Parenthood are abortions, none of which are paid for using federal grant dollars.

Still, Republicans saw an opportunity to fire up their fringe base while undermining a liberal-leaning advocacy organization. And if the five million American women who get affordable health care from Planned Parenthood every year had to be thrown under the bus, so be it. All’s fair in politics.

Almost a year later, a Republican operative at the Susan G. Komen breast cancer foundation pushed for the organization to cut its support of Planned Parenthood. Uproar from women was swift and strong, prompting Komen to reverse the decision and fire the ideologically-driven instigator.

But Republicans kept pushing their anti-choice, anti-women’s health agenda.

Presidential candidate Rick Santorum, who has repeatedly reiterated his staunch opposition to contraception, began surging in the polls among conservative voters.

Republicans in Virginia proposed a law that would require women seeking abortions, even those resulting from rape or incest, to first submit to mandatory trans-vaginal ultrasounds -- a further invasion of their bodies.

And Republicans in Texas pushed through a law defunding Planned Parenthood clinics in the state, cutting off at least 60,000 low-income women from their health care providers.

Thursday, the New York Times reports, "Senate Democratic women plan to march to the Senate floor to demand quick action on the extension of the Violence Against Women Act."

The Times goes on to say that the act, "once [a piece of ] broadly bipartisan legislation...now faces fierce opposition from conservatives." The article also mentions this point from a female, Republican Senator: "At a closed-door Senate Republican lunch on Tuesday, Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska sternly warned her colleagues that the party was at risk of being successfully painted as anti-woman — with potentially grievous political consequences in the fall."

Which is all to say that when President Obama’s Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius issued preliminary statements on how the contraception mandate would be applied to religiously-based institutions like hospitals and universities with a primarily public purpose, the Republican Party pounced on the situation with the hopes of exploiting it for political gain.

Never mind that 28 states had already instituted similar regulations with no fanfare or uproar from religious conservatives. This was different.

Republican strategists saw this as a slam dunk opportunity to criticize health care reform and paint President Obama as opposing religious liberty. If basic contraception access for women was the casualty, who cares? In fact, for some Republican politicians, like Rick Santorum, that was an added bonus!

Whether or not you think this amounts to a Republican “war on women,” it’s definitely a “war on women voters.”

Consider Mary Russell, a retired teacher from Iowa City, Iowa, who describes herself as an evangelical Christian and “old school” Republican of the moderate mold. Regarding the Republican presidential candidates, Ms. Russell says, “If they’re going to decide on women’s reproductive issues, I’m not going to vote for any of them. Women’s reproduction is our own business.” Now she reports she may vote for President Obama.

In a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll while in an imagined face-to-face match up, President Obama currently trails Mitt Romney by six percentage points with male voters,but the president has an 18 point lead with women --- across political parties.

It’s no wonder. As divisive as abortion rights still are as a political issue, women voters (and most men) are overwhelmingly supportive of basic contraception. That's no surprise considering that 99% of reproductive-age women have used birth control.

While women voters might rather focus on jobs and the economy, watching Republicans jeopardize women’s health and reproductive freedom while slandering those who try and stand in their way is enough to make women demand not only good jobs and fair pay but political leaders who respect the liberty and rights of women in America.

President Obama’s campaign may be paying for fliers and advertisements to attract women voters, but in this regard, Republicans are giving him the kind of help that money can’t buy.





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Friday, March 16, 2012 9:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Holy shit, FauxNews even!?
Quote:

Whether or not you think this amounts to a Republican “war on women,” it’s definitely a “war on women voters.”
I am appropriately smacked in the gob! I have to give them points--I think their point is to try and get the GOP to stop because they're ruining their chances in the election, but the honesty shocks me:
Quote:

While women voters might rather focus on jobs and the economy, watching Republicans jeopardize women’s health and reproductive freedom while slandering those who try and stand in their way is enough to make women demand not only good jobs and fair pay but political leaders who respect the liberty and rights of women in America.

President Obama’s campaign may be paying for fliers and advertisements to attract women voters, but in this regard, Republicans are giving him the kind of help that money can’t buy.

Thanx for putting this up, I won't forget it in future. Even if the point IS to try and get the right to see sense in the hopes they don't keep shooting themselves in the foot, even admitting all that is pretty amazing from Fox!



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