REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Lesbian Woman Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, March 15, 2012 04:30
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Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:35 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

As her elderly mother was dying, Barbara Johnson lay next to her on the hospital bed, reciting the "Hail Mary." Loetta Johnson, 85, had been a devout Catholic, raising her four children in the church and sending them to Catholic schools.

At her mother's funeral mass at the St. John Neumann Catholic Church in Gaithersburg, Md., a grieving Barbara Johnson was the first in line to receive communion.

What happened next stunned her. The priest refused Johnson, who is gay, the sacramental bread and wine.

"He covered the bowl with the Eucharist with his hand and looked at me, and said I cannot give you communion because you live with a woman and that is a sin in the eyes of the church," Johnson told ABC News affiliate WJLA.

Her older brother, Larry Johnson, couldn't believe what he had seen.

"I walked to the side of the church to console her, because she was clearly distraught," Johnson told ABC News.

Larry Johnson said his sister, who has been in a committed gay relationship for 19 years, composed herself enough to give her mother's eulogy, but then he was shocked at what happened next. The priest left the altar, Johnson said, and didn't return until his sister was nearly finished speaking.

Family members added that the priest failed to come to the grave site, and the burial was attended by a substitute priest found by the funeral director.

Larry Johnson and his sister were outraged at what occurred on "what would already have been the worst day of my life," he said.

They want the priest, the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo, removed from dealings with parishioners. They also believe he owes them an apology.

"This isn't about gay rights and it isn't about Catholic bashing, it is simply about the conduct of a reprehensible priest," said Johnson.

But the head of DignityUSA, a group that focuses on gay and lesbian rights and the Catholic Church, sees the incident as part of a wider problem.

"The reality is, in some ways, it is very emblematic of the hierarchy's approach to gay people, transgender people," said Marianne Duddy-Burke. "There are little messages of rejection that happen all the time."

Guarnizo did not return an email asking for a comment about the incident.

The Archdiocese of Washington had no public comment about the priest's behavior, but issued a statement that indicated Guarnizo should have taken up the matter of whether Johnson could receive communion in private.

"When questions arise about whether or not an individual should present themselves for communion," the statement said, "it is not the policy of the Archdiocese to Washington to publicly reprimand the person."

The archdiocese said it is looking into the incident and that it would handle it as a personnel issue.

Duddy-Burke of DignityUSA believes the response misses the point.

"I would hope that it provides a wake-up call to church leaders to make them see where the extremes of their policy are leading," she said. "My concern is they will just see this as an isolated incident and fail to see the context."

Both Larry and Barbara Johnson have received letters from the archdiocese of Washington apologizing "that what should have been a celebration of your mother's life … was overshadowed by a lack of pastoral sensitivity."

Fucking unbelievable. I hate seeing what "religious authorities" are getting away with more and more in this country. Sharia law my ass; we're under assault from the CHRISTIAN religions in our own damned country!

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:43 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Classic "My Bigotry is more important than your grief" really shows what assholes these people are.

A little human decency please.

Just a little, is that asking so much?

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Hello,

This is what a person gets for employing the services of a religious order which has repeatedly vowed to reject you. Any gay person who belongs to this order, contributes to this order, or employs this order in any capacity is a fool. Until the order reforms itself, rejected peoples should turn their backs on it, and excommunicate it from their lives.

A religious order can conduct its services however they like, but were I rejected by such an order, I'd be damned if I'd let them into my life. Literally. It would be like marrying an abusive man. You know he's going to hurt you.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:55 AM

BYTEMITE


My atheist leanings aside, I have a dislike towards certain priesthoods and religious leaders simply because of their inability to see the broader picture.

This religion believes in some manner of salvation after death, and taking care of the living so that they achieve salvation. They believe in offering ways to atone and get around the sufferings and tribulations of daily life, and represent a sort of comfort for the same.

Given their stated goal and agenda, what do some of them do? Instead of reach out, they exclude, instead of save, they push down. Here is a shepherd who does not give a damn about his flock, only about his own self-righteousness.

The holy man don't look so holy right now. Judge not lest ye be judged. That priest oughta tend to the plank in his eyes, because I've got a diabolic load of fiery judgment here and I'm full ready to use it.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 12:10 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 12:10 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I guess its up to them. But I think its weird the way they have the priest give it to each person individually. At my church we pass it around and everyone who wants to take it can, and everyone who doesn't want to doesn't.

If she came up to get communion then it shouldn't be his choice to give it or not in my opinion, but apparently that's how they do it there. I do think though that this particular time was a poor time to do this.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 12:15 PM

OONJERAH



Quote Anthony: "Hello,

This is what a person gets for employing the services of a religious order which has repeatedly vowed to reject you. Any gay person who belongs to this order, contributes to this order, or employs this order in any capacity is a fool. Until the order reforms itself, rejected peoples should turn their backs on it, and excommunicate it from their lives.

A religious order can conduct its services however they like, but were I rejected by such an order, I'd be damned if I'd let them into my life. Literally. It would be like marrying an abusive man. You know he's going to hurt you.

--Anthony"

That crossed my mind as soon as I read it, Anthony.

Immediately, I realized that the deceased women must have been a Catholic, someone who always meant to be buried by the
church in Holy ground. Perhaps her whole family is Catholic as well. There is no way this funeral would have been held
elsewhere and without a priest.

Barbara Johnson still considers herself a Catholic in spite of knowing that the Church sees her as fallen from grace.

The priest was rotten. If he had even a bit of grace himself, he would have taken her aside quietly and said that he could
not/would not give her communion.


Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 12:16 PM

STORYMARK


My very religious Grandmother abandoned her church when, at her Husband's funeral, the Minister said "He was a good man. Too bad he was never Baptized and will have to go to hell."

One of the many reasons I loathe organized religion.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:08 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I guess its up to them. But I think its weird the way they have the priest give it to each person individually. At my church we pass it around and everyone who wants to take it can, and everyone who doesn't want to doesn't.

If she came up to get communion then it shouldn't be his choice to give it or not in my opinion, but apparently that's how they do it there. I do think though that this particular time was a poor time to do this.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



This is what happens in a Catholic Service. You line up to receive the sacrements. Priests can and do refuse communion. I remember seeing it happen when I was young, and the Priest refused communion to someone who was inappropriatey dressed. He wasn't wearing a shirt, so he was admittedly pushing the boundaries. However, it was summer, the church was next to the beach, and it was the 70's. People were scantily dressed. The man caused a scene and was ejected. Most exciting thing to happen at church, ever.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:11 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

That crossed my mind as soon as I read it, Anthony.

Immediately, I realized that the deceased women must have been a Catholic, someone who always meant to be buried by the
church in Holy ground. Perhaps her whole family is Catholic as well. There is no way this funeral would have been held
elsewhere and without a priest.

Barbara Johnson still considers herself a Catholic in spite of knowing that the Church sees her as fallen from grace.

The priest was rotten. If he had even a bit of grace himself, he would have taken her aside quietly and said that he could
not/would not give her communion.
.



I attended my mothers funeral in a Catholic church and took communion. I sat with the priest while he gave her the last rites and said prayers out loud. I did it for her, for respect and nothing else.

It was a rotten guesture of this priest. But then a lot of them do think they are holier than thou ;)

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Friday, March 2, 2012 3:48 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
My atheist leanings aside, I have a dislike towards certain priesthoods and religious leaders simply because of their inability to see the broader picture.

This religion believes in some manner of salvation after death, and taking care of the living so that they achieve salvation. They believe in offering ways to atone and get around the sufferings and tribulations of daily life, and represent a sort of comfort for the same.

Given their stated goal and agenda, what do some of them do? Instead of reach out, they exclude, instead of save, they push down. Here is a shepherd who does not give a damn about his flock, only about his own self-righteousness.

The holy man don't look so holy right now. Judge not lest ye be judged. That priest oughta tend to the plank in his eyes, because I've got a diabolic load of fiery judgment here and I'm full ready to use it.


I was gonna quote Anthony, but Byte wins out on awesome...


-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 6:16 AM

CAVETROLL


Despicable.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Gee whiz, something we can all agree on! That should be celebrated...or something.

Apparently the mother at least was a devout Catholic, that's all I glean from it. And I'm not ABOUT to watch the video of this asshole ranting! I just got up, am about to take the dogs out in the beautiful sunshine (it's rained--HUZZAH!--the last couple of days), and I won't want to have smoke coming out my ears. People might talk. Besides, I'm driving.

Pretty much "yes" to everything everyone's said. I'm working on a sign, not sure how to word it and would love any suggestions (no, I mean REAL suggestions) on a related subject.

"Sharia Law? No real danger.
_______ Law? VERY real danger"

Having trouble with the blank. "American religious", "Evangelical"; I'm not sure what wording fits well. I'm not even sure that's how I want to put it...has to be very short; long signs are no good. So I'm open to suggestions. The other side will be "Government out of women's health". And yes, I know what Raptor's suggestion will be, but I want REAL ones, if anyone cares to contribute.



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Friday, March 2, 2012 10:42 AM

OONJERAH



"Christian Law" or "Protestant Law" are the best I can come up with.
"American Fundamentalist Christians" are not One group, and they fight with each other.
Catholics are the largest single group of Christians in America I believe.

"One Nation under God." In my childhood, whenever we said God on our money, in the Pledge of Alliegance, in our songs,
we didn't have to be specific. God watched over us, but our laws were secular.

Would you want a new thread for this?


Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 11:43 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I'm working on a sign, not sure how to word it and would love any suggestions (no, I mean REAL suggestions) on a related subject.

"Sharia Law? No real danger.
_______ Law? VERY real danger"

Having trouble with the blank.



You need to be very careful with this, because unless you're very selective in your description (probably longer than a sound-bite on a sign) you stand a good chance of offending the big bunch of Christians who do support secular law and would not want church-mandated laws about abortion, contraception, LGBT issues, etc.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, March 2, 2012 12:11 PM

OONJERAH



            "Retro Law"

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 1:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oonj: Retro wouldn't work, people wouldn't get it. Think I'll take a chance and put up a thread, SOMEONE will come up with the perfect terminology, I'll bet! There's no hurry, I make a couple of new signs every week and it's an ongoing issue.

Geezer; not in Marin, trust me! It will bring MANY honks and waves of support, I just have to figure out the wording.

ETA: Yeah, Oonj, we've come a long way, haven't we? Backwards, that is...



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Friday, March 2, 2012 3:00 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Only priests, popes and nuns are allowed to be gay in the Catholic church of pedophiles.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 5:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

This is what a person gets for employing the services of a religious order which has repeatedly vowed to reject you. Any gay person who belongs to this order, contributes to this order, or employs this order in any capacity is a fool. Until the order reforms itself, rejected peoples should turn their backs on it, and excommunicate it from their lives.

A religious order can conduct its services however they like, but were I rejected by such an order, I'd be damned if I'd let them into my life. Literally. It would be like marrying an abusive man. You know he's going to hurt you.

--Anthony



Personally, I can't see why there are any posts after yours Anthony.

This is 100% the correct answer.

Government has no right to step in and tell a church how to conduct it's business. People bitching about it are either A) the type of people who are religious but are determined to force a square peg into a circle hole, or B) outspoken atheists who are looking for yet another reason to knock religion down.

There is NO C in this equation.

There are plenty of Christian churches these days that welcome homosexuality with open arms. This is perfectly okay that they do.

Just don't try to force it down every Christian churches throats.



Speaking of throats, Nikki, try bringing up this topic of conversation in the Middle East and see how quick yours gets relieved of it's blood.

If anything, you should be happy, and maybe even grateful that the practicing Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans and other Christian religions in this country don't force you into wearing a black hood that covers everything but your eyes and would just as easily dispose of your body for saying such remarks out loud.

That's what the US Government is for.

Checks and balances....

If this woman was really that hungry for the body of Christ, she would have converted to another church that was accepting of her lifestyle years ago.

This is just yet another publicity stunt and another attack on Christianity.



DISCLAIMER: Although I've attended Catholic Mass in the past and did one year of CCD, I've never come close to being confirmed Catholic. I'm agnostic.

I still get pissed when I read bullshit like this article.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Friday, March 2, 2012 8:03 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


You don't seem to get that she was attending her mother's funeral, not embracing the church.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 8:12 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You don't seem to get that she was attending her mother's funeral, not embracing the church.



Hello,

Details in the narrative make it clear she was doing both.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 8:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Just don't try to force it down every Christian churches throats.




When discussing Catholics, you really need to find a better way to word that! :)

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Saturday, March 3, 2012 4:11 AM

FREMDFIRMA



So long as any religion feels the pressing need to endeavour (and all too often succeed) in forcing others to conform to THEIR moral standards, up to an including misusing or manipulating the law in blatant defiance of the first amendment...
(See also: Blue Laws)
Then I have ZERO sympathy for that religion being pushed around itself.

People here in the US are so used to having Judeo-Christian morality shoved down their throat legally and otherwise they're actually quite blind to it, and it generally falls beneath their consciousness unnoticed - not so if yer one of the few to whom that morality is a burr in your fucking hide.
THEN you notice, and it's rage-n-rant inducing, it is.

So yeah, long as they think they got some right to redefine our laws when someone turns it back on them, all that hypocritical howling ?
Music to my ears.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, March 3, 2012 1:15 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You don't seem to get that she was attending her mother's funeral, not embracing the church.



Hello,

Details in the narrative make it clear she was doing both.

--Anthony




I don't seem to be able to find them. As I posted earlier, I went to a catholic funeral and took communion, but I don't consider myself Catholic or embracing anything to do with Catholicism. Just did it out of respect.

I also note that the priest not only refused her communion, he shunned her during the eulogy and didn't come to the gravesite. He was really acting out something unpleasant and it wasn't this woman's fault or embracing of this religion. She was giving her mother what she would have expected as a devout catholic.

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Saturday, March 3, 2012 1:50 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

B) outspoken atheists who are looking for yet another reason to knock religion down.


I'm saying this particular preacher has no idea how to do his job, and works at cross purposes to it. Also, he apparently doesn't even know his own scripture.

I feel justified in pointing out how awful he is at being a holy man, and it's only too bad I can't do so to his face. He might actually become a better priest, Christian, and person if he'd only listen - which of course SHOULD BE what he does for his congregation, but it's not.

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Saturday, March 3, 2012 7:29 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I went to a catholic funeral and took communion, but I don't consider myself Catholic or embracing anything to do with Catholicism. Just did it out of respect.


Hello,

I suppose you can interpret events as you like. For myself... if that woman somehow missed this order's position on homosexuality before that day, when she chose to 'respect' them even as they made it an official policy to disrespect her? Well, I hope she knows better now and quits them.

And I hope her brother knows better. And whoever else who might have seen this debacle. I hope they know better, too.

Keep in mind this is a story NOT because this fellow was out of line with the policies of the order... but rather because he was rude about it. All he did was state bluntly the official policy: Go burn in hell. You deserve eternal torment.

--Anthony





_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Saturday, March 3, 2012 9:09 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Yes, it would be that defining moment when you decided to give up your faith.

I guess being brought up in that faith, I and a lot of people of my generation face issues like this one as we bury our parents who were believers. I expect that my father's funeral will be one of the last times I attend a catholic church and it will definitely be the last time I take communion. But I will be there, sitting, standing and observing the prayers as will my atheist brothers and their families.

That being said, there are priests and priests. Not all are intolerant bastards like this one, even in the Catholic orders. I know of one who performs joining ceremonies for gay couples.

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

B) outspoken atheists who are looking for yet another reason to knock religion down.


I'm saying this particular preacher has no idea how to do his job, and works at cross purposes to it. Also, he apparently doesn't even know his own scripture.

I feel justified in pointing out how awful he is at being a holy man, and it's only too bad I can't do so to his face. He might actually become a better priest, Christian, and person if he'd only listen - which of course SHOULD BE what he does for his congregation, but it's not.



If I believed for a second that this was some personal urge of you to knock down one unscrupulous "holy man" I would not take issue.

Maybe you are, and I misjudged your post....

But today, here's the facts....

Somebody burns a Koran, American soldiers (or even innociet civilans) get murdered in retribution.

If you live in America, it's been perfectly acceptable to tear up pictures of the pope on national live TV. (Sure, Sinead O'Connor ruined her awesome career doing it back in the day, but Will Farrel could piss on the bible today in a movie and people would laugh).

Personally, I admire their strength in believing in their religion and standing by it.




Overall, 80% of Americans before the Islam shit were non-practicing. Much more than half of the really believe, but are too inconvenienced by Religion to follow through on anything at this point in their lives.

There's a reason why religion in this country is synonymous with "old".

It's just.... inconvenient.....

It's not because we're outgrowing it as a nation. It's because, especially in the internet age, mostly the young spoiled people are the ones doing the talking.

I'd never would have thought it, but my Grandma from old pictures looks like Jodie Foster from the movie Maverick. To hear others talk, she was just as devious back in the day as well... before age crept up on her and religion was the only friend to sand.

I never would have believed this about her at all, had it not been spoken by one particular individual. Good for her if it's true though.

BTW...


Steven (Stephen) Hawking is an uncompromisable anomaly.

He's the only person on record with Lou Gherig's Disease that has lasted decades longer than he should have. (Research why, I'm sure it's valuable info to humanity).



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 2:13 PM

BYTEMITE


For a supposedly old person you're doing a lot of talking.

And for the record, yes, I am just aiming to call out the flaws of this not-so holy man in the interests of illumination. I can live with people being Christians, but when they're bad or incompetent at it I take issue. Did you notice me say that I think this women should stop believing what she does because of what one priest did? Noooo? Maybe it's because I don't think that. Maybe I don't think all priests suck, just this one priest and those with similar lack of competence.

I generally grew out of baiting people with different ideas than me a long time ago. How about you?

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 3:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm 32, yes, and I'm sure I have posts on this board since I've been posting here 7 or so years that would be in-sync with that line.

Yep... I do a lot of talking though, I can't deny that.

I have no problem with calling out the flaws of a certain individual. Had the "religion" done that the whole time outed any of this behavior as it happened instead of covering it up, all of this would be a non-issue today were you to do it now.

It just seems that in these days that the "church" is an easy target. All you have to do is point out any bad example and the entire order is to blame because of scandals of the past.



When I was a kid, Jellystone Park, (A Yogi-Bear themed park trailer park) was awesome. There were camp counslers 10-15 years older than us kids that were paid minimum wages to do sports activities and ice cream socials community movie nights and flea markets and the like all weekend long. These days, the parks are boring as hell for kids and nearly no activities except for the Saturday night dance at the pavillion where they don't even have enough people to patrol the out of control booze and drugs. Half the time there are cops there.

Is this because all of the leadership is corrupt? Possibly....

But it is now known that the previous "leader" of the park's funds for 10 years embezzled over 300k from the park over the years, and they've since raised lot rate several years ago to help make up for that without returning any of the old services. It was just to keep the park alive.

I dunno.....

I don't look at every member of the park's faculty as being corrupt today, even though it sucks now. There's no way I'd buy a lot there and have fun times with my kids in the future like I would want to and like I had when I was a kid, but for the most part I don't go around preaching their faults.

Then again, there are no AthiYogists out there either. There's nothing to gain from outsiders bashing Yogi Bear parks. There are a lot of Athiests out there that feel the need to spend time bashing the church online though to justify their own actions.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
For a supposedly old person you're doing a lot of talking.

And for the record, yes, I am just aiming to call out the flaws of this not-so holy man in the interests of illumination. I can live with people being Christians, but when they're bad or incompetent at it I take issue. Did you notice me say that I think this women should stop believing what she does because of what one priest did? Noooo? Maybe it's because I don't think that. Maybe I don't think all priests suck, just this one priest and those with similar lack of competence.

I generally grew out of baiting people with different ideas than me a long time ago. How about you?



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 4:25 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

It just seems that in these days that the "church" is an easy target. All you have to do is point out any bad example and the entire order is to blame because of scandals of the past.
Well, when it comes to child abuse, there have been so MANY incidents in so many different places, don't you think the actions of the church in covering them up might give people reason to blame the entire order?

In my opinion, I think people have over time become less oppressed and controlled by religious authority figures, and it's easier to question, and yes, condemn, them and the religion they purport to represent. After all, when you put yourself up as speaking for God, and claim the power to condemn others to hell, it kinda puts you in the position of your own actions taking on a much larger significance, doesn't it?

In ancient times, speaking against the church could easily be hazardous to your health. Not so now--at least on in America!--so people feel freer to speak up, and just possibly have seen so much hypocrisy and duplicitous behavior in their supposed religious leaders that religion is losing its hold on people. One could only hope.



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Sunday, March 4, 2012 4:44 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Six,

I find your comparisons wayward and weird.

It is the official policy of this religious order that these people be denied salvation. It would only compare to your corrupt park if the leadership was propagating their corruption to their employees, who echoed the corruptions in their daily deeds and practices.

The misdeed of this priest was in adhering to the policies of his order fully and stating those policies plainly in an embarrassing fashion.

Until the order itself changes its core policies, it is not merely an individual priest that must be opposed. That there are individual members of this order who reject its rules and embrace all comers is to speak of the exceptions. The order itself, its policies and practices, are foul.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 5:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Six,

I find your comparisons wayward and weird.

It is the official policy of this religious order that these people be denied salvation. It would only compare to your corrupt park if the leadership was propagating their corruption to their employees, who echoed the corruptions in their daily deeds and practices.

The misdeed of this priest was in adhering to the policies of his order fully and stating those policies plainly in an embarrassing fashion.

Until the order itself changes its core policies, it is not merely an individual priest that must be opposed. That there are individual members of this order who reject its rules and embrace all comers is to speak of the exceptions. The order itself, its policies and practices, are foul.

--Anthony



Agreed

Although, since church and state are seprated, no calls for any government action are warranted.

It's not as if these people are sawing off soldiers' heads for denying their religion.

If you don't like what they do practice, don't go there anymore and find a place more suitable to your delicate sensibilities.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 5:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Actions speak louder than words Nikki.

If you don't like the church, don't go to it. Don't associate your own children to to it and don't force your husband to go to it.

If you are religious, than find a halfway point. This is 2012. There are PLENTY of Christian "What's Happening Now" churches out there that are not at all affiliated with Catholicism or the Pope.



I don't understand the problem here, and why this is even a topic of conversation at all.

If you really believe that all Catholic priests are monsters, you'd be a monster to put your kids into that system. So put them somewhere else.

If you don't believe in god, do your best to instill Atheism in your own children.

That probably won't work though, just realize that. The more any parent forces on their kids, the more they're likely to go the other way when they're 15 or so.

Good luck either way

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 5:45 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Although, since church and state are seprated, no calls for any government action are warranted.



Hello,

Diligent of you to argue against a policy I'm not advocating.

Quote:

It's not as if these people are sawing off soldiers' heads for denying their religion.


No. We put a stop to the killings here... mostly.

Quote:

If you don't like what they do practice, don't go there anymore and find a place more suitable to your delicate sensibilities.


Obviously. And when their foul policies arise in the public consciousness, speak out against them.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 6:13 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Correct on all counts...

As I said before, if you don't like the religious practices, find another religion.

Don't force a square peg into a round hole, or expect the government to do it for you.

There is a religion out there for every flavor. Go with that and don't hate the "mainstream".





I don't believe that God hates lesbians or gays at all. I just don't invest any time fighting it since there are so many churches that welcome them with open arms that otherwise accept Catholicism.

This entire post is a complete non-issue.

Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Although, since church and state are seprated, no calls for any government action are warranted.



Hello,

Diligent of you to argue against a policy I'm not advocating.

Quote:

It's not as if these people are sawing off soldiers' heads for denying their religion.


No. We put a stop to the killings here... mostly.

Quote:

If you don't like what they do practice, don't go there anymore and find a place more suitable to your delicate sensibilities.


Obviously. And when their foul policies arise in the public consciousness, speak out against them.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.



"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Monday, March 12, 2012 2:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


...and a follow-up.

Quote:

Priest who denied communion placed on leave

Sunday - 3/11/2012, 7:06pm ET

GAITHERSBURG, Md. (AP) - A priest who denied communion to a lesbian at her mother's funeral has been placed on leave.

A letter from an archdiocese official says the priest was placed on leave for engaging in intimidating behavior.

The archdiocese has already apologized for the priest's actions at the February funeral in Gaithersburg.

Barbara Johnson and her relatives, meanwhile, have asked the archdiocese to remove the priest. The archdiocese issued a statement after the funeral saying the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo's actions violated policy but any action against him would remain confidential because it is a personnel issue.

Johnson's family issued a statement Sunday saying the letter doesn't pertain to the funeral, but they hope the action will ensure others won't suffer the same treatment.



http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2769117

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, March 12, 2012 9:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I didn't see this story; thanx. All I have to say is

He is, to me, the epitome of someone in religion with power who puts himself ahead of his duties to care for his parishoners. In other words, I don't think he understands what it is to be "Christian".

I also think it's weasely of the archdiocese to claim his suspension had nothing to do with the incident in question:
Quote:

A spokeswoman for the archdiocese said the suspension was not triggered by last month’s alleged Communion denial, but by events involving the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo in the days since.

The archdiocese “received credible allegations that Father Guarnizo had engaged in intimidating behavior toward parish staff and others that is incompatible with proper priestly ministry,” the archdiocese said in a Friday statement.

“Given the grave nature of these allegations, and in light of the confusion in the parish and the concerns expressed by parishioners,” the statement continued, “Father Guarnizo is prohibited from exercising any priestly ministry in the Archdiocese of Washington until all matters can be appropriately resolved with the hope that he might return to priestly ministry.” http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/12/priest-who-allegedly-denied-c
ommunion-to-lesbian-placed-on-leave/?hpt=us_c2

If that's true, then there's even more reason he shouldn't be in a position of authority.

Whatcha wanna bet he's reinstated when all this dies down? Organized religion: Bah!





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Monday, March 12, 2012 5:20 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


And that's why it makes more sense to just let everyone who wants communion take it and not have someone _give it to each person. But that's the way they do it. My way makes more sense.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:03 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


...and even more.

Quote:

Md. priest defends denial of Communion to lesbian

GAITHERSBURG, Md. - A Gaithersburg priest is defending his decision to deny Communion to a woman at a funeral Mass because she is a lesbian. The priest has since been suspended.

In a statement to the conservative website CNSnews.com, the Rev. Marcel Guarnizo said Barbara Johnson introduced another woman as her "lover" during a Feb. 25 funeral for Johnson's mother. "Openly confessing sin" should be done in a confessional and not before Communion, he said. He said he then quietly withheld Communion.

Guarnizo said that the incident was a "warning" to the church and that he's confident he did the only thing a "faithful Catholic priest could do."

In announcing his removal, the Archdiocese of Washington cited allegations that Guarnizo intimidated parish staff. Guarnizo denied that, saying he was removed after trying to obtain written comment about what happened from the funeral director and a parish staff member.

Johnson's family called Guarnizo's response "arrogant" and "deceitful." Johnson said he is politicizing her mother's death.



http://www.wtop.com/?nid=46&sid=2769117

Kind'a makes you wonder if Rev. Guarnizo isn't a secret Westboro Baptist Church member.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sigh...organized religion and the power it gives some who maybe should not have that power. I think the guy should have apologized rather than snarked back, it would have been nice, but his response pretty much indicates what kind of person he is, which is a shame. That's all I have to say.



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