REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Getting fit by 3mins of exercise a week?

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Friday, September 5, 2014 19:34
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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:07 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Que? This is new to me...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17177251

Quote:

A few relatively short bursts of intense exercise, amounting to only a few minutes a week, can deliver many of the health and fitness benefits of hours of conventional exercise, according to new research, says Dr Michael Mosley. But how much benefit you get from either may well depend on your genes.

When I first read studies which suggested that I could make significant and measurable changes to my fitness by doing just three minutes of exercise a week, I was incredulous.

But this apparently outrageous claim is supported by many years of research done in a number of different countries including the UK, so I decided to give it a go.

My guide into the world of High Intensity Training (HIT), was Jamie Timmons, professor of ageing biology at Birmingham University.

Jamie assured me that by doing just three minutes of HIT a week for four weeks, I could expect to see significant changes in a number of important health indices.

The first, and the one I was most interested in, is insulin sensitivity. Insulin removes sugar from the blood, it controls fat and when it becomes ineffective you become diabetic.

My father was a diabetic and died from complications of that disease. Jamie assured me that research from a number of centres has shown that three minutes of HIT a week improves insulin sensitivity by an average of 24%.

The second improvement I was likely to see would be in my aerobic fitness. Aerobic fitness is a measure of how good your heart and lungs are at getting oxygen into your body and is an excellent predictor of future health. I asked Jamie why.

"The simple answer is we don't know," he replied. "What we do know is that it is a very, very powerful predictor of future health."

Genetic test

So if I could improve my insulin sensitivity and my aerobic fitness then that should improve my general health. But Jamie said there was a potential sting in the tail. There was a possibility that I wouldn't improve. Not because HIT doesn't work but because I've inherited the wrong genes.

The fact is that people respond to exercise in very different ways. In one international study 1,000 people were asked to exercise four hours a week for 20 weeks. Their aerobic fitness was measured before and after starting this regime and the results were striking.

Although 15% of people made huge strides (so-called "super-responders"), 20% showed no real improvement at all ("non-responders").

There is no suggestion that the non-responders weren't exercising properly, it was simply that the exercise they were doing was not making them any aerobically fitter.

Jamie and his collaborators investigated the reasons for these variations and discovered that much of the difference could be traced to a small number of genes.

On the basis of this finding they have developed a genetic test to predict who is likely to be a responder, and who is not. Jamie offered me that test. But I would not be told the results until I had completed my HIT regime.

I agreed, had blood taken and went through some baseline tests to assess my starting point, fitness-wise. Then I began to do HIT.

Full throttle

It's actually very simple. You get on an exercise bike, warm up by doing gentle cycling for a couple of minutes, then go flat out for 20 seconds.

A couple of minutes to catch your breath, then another 20 seconds at full throttle. Another couple of minutes gentle cycling, then a final 20 seconds going hell for leather. And that's it.

So how does it work? According to Jamie, and other researchers I spoke to, part of the explanation is (probably) that HIT uses far more of our muscle tissue than classic aerobic exercise.

When you do HIT, you are using not just the leg muscles, but also the upper body including arms and shoulders, so that 80% of the body's muscle cells are activated, compared to 20-40% for walking or moderate intensity jogging or cycling.

Active exercise also seems to be needed to break down the body's stores of glucose, deposited in your muscles as a substance called glycogen. Smash up these glycogen stores and you create room for more glucose to be sucked out of the blood and stored.

Somewhat sceptical I went off and dutifully did my four weeks of HIT, making a grand total of 12 minutes of intense exercise and 36 minutes of gentle pedalling. I then went back to the lab to be retested.

The results were mixed. My insulin sensitivity had improved by a remarkable 24%, which was extremely satisfying, but my aerobic fitness had not improved at all.

I was crestfallen, but Jamie was not surprised. It turns out that the genetic test they had done on me had suggested I was a non-responder and however much exercise I had done, and of whatever form, my aerobic fitness would not have improved. My dreams of winning Olympic gold ended there and then.

I will continue doing HIT because I can see the benefits. It won't suit everyone, because although it is short, it is extremely intense. Like any new exercise regime if you have a pre-existing medical condition you should consult your doctor before trying it.

Michael Mosley presents Horizon: The Truth About Exercise is on BBC Two at 21:00 GMT on Tuesday 28 February 2012 or watch online afterwards at the above link.



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:15 AM

CAVETROLL


Either this is great news for the fitness of everyone or a sad commentary on how out of shape the world is.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:03 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


That's interesting.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, June 8, 2014 5:34 PM

OONJERAH


“Eat Less, Exercise More” Isn’t The Answer For Weight Loss
http://time.com/2809007/eat-less-exercise-more-isnt-the-answer-for-wei
ght-loss
/

"Experts make an argument for why we should stop counting calories."

=====================================

The One Exercise That Just Might Change Your Running Forever
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/04/100-up-running_n_5406664.html

"I was leafing through the back of an out-of-print book, a collection
of runners' biographies called 'The Five Kings of Distance,' when I
came across a three-page essay from 1908 titled 'W. G. George's
Own Account From the 100-Up Exercise,'" he writes. "According to
legend, this single drill turned a 16 year old with almost no running
experience into the foremost racer of his day."


... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

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Sunday, June 8, 2014 5:49 PM

CHRISISALL


Like I said, sugar. Bad.

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Sunday, June 8, 2014 8:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


while I haven't read of any studies using times as short as 3 minutes, it fits with other similar studies stressing very short duration and high intensity.

The genetic test is interesting. And I'd like to see the actual study to see if there were people who were not only NOT helped, but who showed adverse responses in their surrogate markers.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/30/can-exercise-be-bad-for-you/?
_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0



For Some, Exercise May Increase Heart Risk

By analyzing data from six rigorous exercise studies involving 1,687 people, the group found that about 10 percent actually got worse on at least one of the measures related to heart disease: blood pressure and levels of insulin, HDL cholesterol or triglycerides. About 7 percent got worse on at least two measures. And the researchers say they do not know why.

“It is bizarre,” said Claude Bouchard ...

The problem with studies of exercise and health, researchers point out, is that while they often measure things like blood pressure or insulin levels, they do not follow people long enough to see if improvements translate into fewer heart attacks or longer lives. Instead, researchers infer that such changes lead to better outcomes — something that may or may not be true.

Some critics have noted that there is no indication that those who had what Dr. Bouchard is calling an adverse response to exercise actually had more heart attacks or other bad health outcomes. But Dr. Bouchard said if people wanted to use changes in risk factors to infer that those who exercise are healthier, they could not then turn around and say there is no evidence of harm when the risk factor changes go in the wrong direction.

“You can’t have it both ways,” Dr. Bouchard said.

No intervention, including drugs, works for everyone, Dr. Kraus said. So it should not be surprising that exercise does not work for some.

Dr. Bouchard stumbled upon the adverse exercise effects when he looked at data from his own study that examined genetics and responses to exercise. He noticed that about 8 percent seemed to be getting worse on at least one measure of heart disease risk. “I thought that was potentially explosive,” he said.

He then looked for other clinical trials that also examined exercise under controlled conditions, making sure that participants actually exercised and did not change their diets, and carefully measuring heart risk factors and how they changed with an exercise program. He found five studies in addition to his own. In all the studies, a proportion of people, about 10 percent, had at least one measurement of heart disease risk that went in the wrong direction.

Then the researchers asked if there was some way of predicting who would have an adverse effect.

They found it was not related to how fit the people were at the start of the study, nor to how much their fitness improved with exercise. Age had nothing to do with it, nor did race or gender. In some studies subjects were allowed to take medications to control their blood pressure or cholesterol levels. In others they were not. Medication use did not matter. The study subjects exercised at a range of intensities from very moderate to fairly intense. But intensity of effort was not related to the likelihood of an untoward effect. ... (did) the adverse responses represented just random fluctuations in heart risk measures? Or what about seasonal variations in things like cholesterol? But the investigators examined those hypotheses and found that they did not hold up.



OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, June 8, 2014 8:16 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Like I said, sugar. Bad.



Oh no.

*puts down crumpet and honey*
*picks it up again*

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Sunday, June 8, 2014 10:03 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
*picks it up again*


PUT THAT DOWN NOW!!!

JK. All things in moderation including moderation. Jim Fixx (a running nut & fitness author) died while running too much. MY DENTIST died while running too much. Contrary to popular belief in some circles, we are NOT machines that need to be pushed to our limits at every opportunity to be our best. We need to push our individual envelopes super-hard OCCASIONALLY, and push our ambient abilities gently regularly.

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Sunday, June 8, 2014 11:39 PM

WISHIMAY


My grammy always did say "Watch the men work their lives away and the women live on for decades later, sitting around doing crafts and cards."

Guys are usually the ones that work at harder physical jobs, but they are usually the ones that have heart attacks first...


I have a neighbor that only leaves the house a couple times a year- for her porch. 84 years old, and just sits around watching movies all day and prolly will for a spell yet. She buried 2 husbands. I know a dozen more just like her....

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Monday, June 9, 2014 10:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I don't see any reason why this couldn't be true.

I've never seen a reason in my own personal comings and goings to go against it.

When I was fat and lazy i was FAT and LAZY. No little bursts of effort daily... or even weekly or monthly or as long as I could put any of them off.

I don't know about 3 minutes making a difference, but I wouldn't say that 10 minutes of real work every day wouldn't totally change your metabolism.



I used to sit around 12 hours a night and everyone always brought food to work. The only exercise I got on any given day was walking the 5 blocks round trip to get out of the building and back between puffs. That was 4 years and 45 surplus lbs. ago.

I'm way on the other extreme for exertion at work now, but I can say that for many years I never tried working out 3-10 minutes a day as I put on nearly 60 lbs of gross fat unchecked, and nearly hit 240lbs at only 5'8".

I'm weighing in at just under 175 lbs today. I'm an all or nothing guy..... but I'd really like to know the answer to this, hopefully to the benefit of others more than for my own future...


Hopefully the next time I sit around and get fat, I can work out 3 minutes a day and not feel so bad about myself for it :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 9, 2014 2:42 PM

BYTEMITE


*Reads title*

Lol no

The guy in the article is describing quackery at it's finest. Retroactive predictions about how well you respond to some kind of exercise are completely meaningless. And how were they testing the insulin reactivity? It strikes me as very suspicious that his improvement in that area ended up being the exact same percentage as their best case scenario.

I call bullshit.


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Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:22 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


As a retired gym-rat that once spent over 30 hours a week working out, I agree Byte. ;)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, June 10, 2014 8:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Not surprising with the insulin sensitivity. But easier to just eat cinnamon - about a teaspoon per day, mix it in your food, drink, tea/coffee.

The aerobic/anaerobic parts sounds fishy, tho. Difficult to accomplish much in 3 minutes. I do know how to vastly improve the aerobics portion in less time, and have helped friends and acquaintances do so for decades. Imagine running a marathon and never running out of breath or having any hard breathing - that's what they do after taking my advice. But it's not in 3 minutes.

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Saturday, July 5, 2014 1:40 AM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not surprising with the insulin sensitivity. But easier to just eat cinnamon - about a teaspoon per day, mix it in your food, drink, tea/coffee.



OK. I've been meaning to ask about this for a couple of weeks.
Wasn't clear what to say, & I may be a bit ill atm. A number of
confusing elements invading my space lately. But ...

I began using Cinnamon daily in my tea more than a decade ago.
My Sis1, who was into Chinese medicine, told me it's a good internal
heater, & I tend to run cold all the time. Vasoconstriction, I guess.

Two-three years ago, someone mentioned cinnamon helps to reduce
cholesterol, & I have already had a 4-way bypass in 2004.

Last month, some Con pitching hard for his expensive diet supple-
ments mentioned Cinnamomum Cassia or Cinnamomum burmannii,
"exclusive in his formula," as he assured us that plain cinnamon
from the super market doesn't do much for ya.

By then, I was increasing my cinnamon in tea as well as adding
other good herbs.

I've also used chromiacin for years, as chromium has proved to
be an effective cholesterol reducer taken in high doses. Me, I
just take it when I think of it.
.....

Over 10 years ago, before my bypass, I told my then Dr. I have
hypoglycemia. He seemed to be laughing as he replied, "There is
no hypoglycemia; you're prediabetic." And while that Dr. seemed
to have a special interest in diabetes, he never bothered to check
out my condition ... seems to be policy at that clinic if one has
Medicare only.

Being very familiar with this feeling of prediabetic-hypoglycemia,
it didn't go unnoticed recently when I began to wake up with
hypoglycemic shakes* that were very stubborn, took me hours
to mellow out. I tripled the amount of cinnamon in my tea, and
I try to remember to use some in the evening, too.
*persistent trembling in the solar plexus

And I said, "Self, it's time to enlist the help of someone with
more experience. Ask JSF to tell us all he knows about
diabetes, insulin resistance, & stable blood sugar."

So JewelStaiteFan, I'm asking for your advice.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

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Saturday, July 5, 2014 1:35 PM

OONJERAH



^^ You mean ... worse than M.D.s?



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Saturday, July 5, 2014 4:05 PM

OONJERAH



The Hard Way (1991), "If you take care of your bowel, it'll take
care of you."
~Nick Lang / Michael J. Fox

I even pay attention to health tips in silly movies. "Quack!"

OK. Self-help medicine has been around since the stone age & with
mixed results. Probably because people more often had herbs available
than doctors.

I've not seen a Dr. professionally in 2.5 years, because my GP/Nurse
practioner was indifferent/unresponsive to my health needs. My heart
Dr. was actually harmful. ATM, I'm committed to the self-help way,
iffy as it is.

I believe in "You are what you eat," and also nutritional individuality.
And I am willing to look at, maybe try, fad diets, such as a body-type
diet. Some consider it risky and foolish; I see it as a noble experiment.
Food needn't be seen as a "magic cure" if you believe that bodies need
food.

How about yogurt? The origin of yogurt is lost in antiquity. It's a folk
medicine & a dessert. It's benefits are backed by science, according to
what I've read. I surely have "very quackish ideas" by your standards.
By my standards, I've always wondered why more people aren't willing
to just try stuff if it has a good history.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.
Another part is being willing to learn.

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Sunday, July 6, 2014 12:00 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon

There are a few different species of cinnamon, including the two cheaper species commercially sold in the US (cassia aka aromaticaum, and burmannii) and a more expensive species sold elsewhere (zeylanicum aka verum).

Studies on the anti-diabetic properties of cinnamon have been done using cassia and verum. After initial enthusiasm though, more testing has reveal mixed results. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.

One thing to be careful of is eating (or drinking) cinnamon itself. The cinnamon you get in the US is probably cassia. Cassia contains very high levels of coumarin, which thins the blood and can cause liver damage. Since the anti-diabetic compounds dissolve in water, but coumarin doesn't, you can safely use cinnamon chips in your tea, drinking the beverage and tossing the chips out.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, July 6, 2014 1:44 AM

OONJERAH



Thanks, Kiki. Good to know!



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Sunday, July 6, 2014 2:50 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I'm glad you found it useful. Anytime.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, July 7, 2014 5:02 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Oonj, don't believe everything you find on the internet, even if it's from well-meaning peeps like me.
I have helped many folk eradicate their health issues with my advice, but I always recommend they investigate a little or lot, and a second opinion is normally not a bad thing.
Here is my deal. There a gobs of info out there, remedies, theories. If you are not aware of them, and you hear from me something new, let it be a guide for you to check out, I can be you source, but don't use me as your doctor until you know me better and I have a better handle on all of your individual health states.

I may not be able to answer all of this at one post.

Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not surprising with the insulin sensitivity. But easier to just eat cinnamon - about a teaspoon per day, mix it in your food, drink, tea/coffee.



OK. I've been meaning to ask about this for a couple of weeks.
Wasn't clear what to say, & I may be a bit ill atm. A number of
confusing elements invading my space lately. But ...

I began using Cinnamon daily in my tea more than a decade ago.
My Sis1, who was into Chinese medicine told me it's a good internal
heater, & I tend to run cold all the time. Vasoconstriction, I guess.


vasoconstriction. Are you a smoker, or have you been?
Have you been told about niacin? niacinimide? Remember to use the flushing type, not the time-release that avoids flushing. It is a B vitamin. My favorite place to get it is K-Mart next to the pharmacy. K-Mart is nationwide, right? Niacin expands the capillarries, which increases the blood flow, and blood is the body's nominal fluid heating system. Heat sensors are in your upper dermal layer, not deep in skin or muscle, so it will make you feel warmer, and also give the flushing feeling (can itch for 5-40 minutes, depending upon dosage, recent eats, etc.) Post-heart problem people are often told to take niacin regularly as it also expands the aortic walls (artificial exercise, which expands them and keeps them more relaxed, like toned), making it harder for plaque to build up (aka hardening of the arteries).
I have helped many "cold" people eliminate this issue from their lives, and it is cheap, like $4 for a bottle. If you want more advice about this, let me know and I can lay out some details.
Quote:


Two-three years ago, someone mentioned cinnamon helps to reduce
cholesterol, & I have already had a 4-way bypass in 2004.

Last month, some Con pitching hard for his expensive diet supple-
ments mentioned Cinnamomum Cassia or Cinnamomum burmannii,
"exclusive in his formula," as he assured us that plain cinnamon
from the super market doesn't do much for ya.

By then, I was increasing my cinnamon in tea as well as adding
other good herbs.

I've also used chromiacin for years, as chromium has proved to
be an effective cholesterol reducer taken in high doses. Me, I
just take it when I think of it.
.....

Over 10 years ago, before my bypass, I told my then Dr. I have
hypoglycemia. He seemed to be laughing as he replied, "There is
no hypoglycemia; you're prediabetic." And while that Dr. seemed
to have a special interest in diabetes, he never bothered to check
out my condition ... seems to be policy at that clinic if one has
Medicare only.


There are many who are on the hard sell to increase diabetes patients. The American Diabetes Association works hard on it, providing recipes to help readers to get more diabetes and increase their subscription volume.
So be carefull there, your comments do not surprise me.
Quote:



Being very familiar with this feeling of prediabetic-hypoglycemia,
it didn't go unnoticed recently when I began to wake up with
hypoglycemic shakes* that were very stubborn, took me hours
to mellow out. I tripled the amount of cinnamon in my tea, and
I try to remember to use some in the evening, too.
*persistent trembling in the solar plexus

And I said, "Self, it's time to enlist the help of someone with
more experience. Ask JSF to tell us all he knows about
diabetes, insulin resistance, & stable blood sugar."

So JewelStaiteFan, I'm asking for your advice.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.


Running out of time for now. Are you aware of: Boost? Avoiding all sugar substitutes? (like aspertame, saccharin, sucralose). Do you have a nutritionist? Do you listen to a dietitian?

Some of those are trick questions, but will help me understand your gig.

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Monday, July 7, 2014 6:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


If I understand correctly, you had a bypass about 10 years ago, and had not used cinnamon regularly before that, and since then or about the same time started using it, right? Sounds like you are not disputing the benefits of cinnamon.

For this specific topic, you were not my intended audience - I was willing to provide the LEAD, or CLUE of cinnamon to those who did not already know.

Tell me about my above questions.

Also, forgot to ask about blueberries - what do you know about, do you use, etc.

Are you also asking about diets? Are you "on a diet" now?

I'll try to help. What state are you in? Do you exercise? If so, what kind? Do your heart issues continue?

The reason this thread was of interest is because it seems even a little exercise does gobs of good for getting the body back into balance, chemically, hormonally, all around health.

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Monday, July 7, 2014 11:54 PM

OONJERAH



Quote JEWELSTAITEFAN: "Running out of time for now. Are you aware of: Boost? Avoiding all sugar substitutes? (like aspertame, saccharin, sucralose). Do you have a nutritionist? Do you listen to a dietitian?

Some of those are trick questions, but will help me understand your gig."

BOOST Glucose Control: Nutritional Drink to Help Meet the Unique
Nutritional Needs of People With Diabetes

^? That Boost? Nope, never heard of it. Just now looked it up.
I think I tried one of the sugar substitutes once or twice a long
time ago. I don't recall what it did to me (super dry mouth maybe?),
but I was soon paranoid about it. I was never a fan of soft drinks,
so never got into the sugar-free diet crap.

I don't have a nutritionist or dietitian, no one with a well rounded
education in healthy diets. Recommended by a friend, I read Adele
Davis in the 60's, & immediately got into the habit of trying to use
supplements to correct both my health problems and my dietary errors.

Over the years, I've added bits of information here & there. I even
came to the conclusion a while back that there is no substitute for
a good diet.

BTW: Born in California and still here.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...


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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 12:49 AM

OONJERAH



Quote JEWELSTAITEFAN: vasoconstriction. Are you a smoker, or have you been?
Have you been told about niacin? niacinimide? Remember to use the flushing type, not the time-release that avoids flushing. It is a B vitamin. My favorite place to get it is K-Mart next to the pharmacy. K-Mart is nationwide, right? Niacin expands the capillarries, which increases the blood flow, and blood is the body's nominal fluid heating system. Heat sensors are in your upper dermal layer, not deep in skin or muscle, so it will make you feel warmer, and also give the flushing feeling (can itch for 5-40 minutes, depending upon dosage, recent eats, etc.) Post-heart problem people are often told to take niacin regularly as it also expands the aortic walls (artificial exercise, which expands them and keeps them more relaxed, like toned), making it harder for plaque to build up (aka hardening of the arteries).
I have helped many "cold" people eliminate this issue from their lives, and it is cheap, like $4 for a bottle. If you want more advice about this, let me know and I can lay out some details.


Smoking, yes! Watched my Dad do it & promised I never would.

One day I came home from shopping, found my BF & Roomie's BF sit-
ting on the couch laughing at everything. They were high on Pot, & they
didn't throw up or get a bad hangover from it like I did from booze.
That looked good to me, so I decided to try it.

They said I'd have to learn to inhale deeply, & to do that would need
a few cigarettes.
Well, the pot did nothing at all to me at first; no high, no low. But I
sure was addicted to cigarettes by then: Nicotine, my drug of choice.
I was 23 at the time. (1966?)

I think I stopped smoking briefly along about 1980, age 37.

I stopped smoking again early in 2004, age 61. I did it on NADH :
beta-nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide which I had gotten mainly to
treat depression & fatigue. About a week after I started the NADH,
I got a bad case of bronchitis & could not smoke even when I tried.
I've long thought there is a connection between niacin deficiency
and nicotine dependency.

So I did smoke about 38 years about a pack a day, but more when
nervous or drinking alcohol. (Last drink, Nov 1982, btw.)

I have niacinamide 100 mg in front of me. I should probably take 3 or
4 a day, but I usually forget to take any. I am definitely a big sissy
about the flush kind, & about the most I'd do with that would be to
take 50 mg on a full stomach. If I'd known niacin was also good for
the internal heater ... would I take it more consistently? ...
Gonna try it.

BTW: When did I 1st notice how cold I was? I noticed it as a child.
If we went to the beach or on a camping trip, situations where Natural
fluxuations in temperature were more pronounced, I felt like I was
always the 1st one, maybe the only one, to start shivering.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:16 PM

OONJERAH



What if ... we get 4 Opinions, and they're all Different?

Structure - Do I have any structure or routine in my life? Not much;
I never learned it, didn't create it. I go to sleep when I can, when
I feel tired & relaxed enough to fall asleep, usually sometime between
midnight & dawn. When I wake up later, I don't get up right away, but
let my mind wander as I try to get another wink. I get up when I final-
ly feel willing to cope. I snack thru the day; the only regular meal
is dinner, no set time, after 9:00 - before 11:00 pm is usual. I make
a list of things that need doing; mostly I drift. One bit of routine is,
after I make my tea, I'll sit at the computer and play a few Sherlocks.

Hypoglycemia - Where'd I get that word? What is it? Why do I think I
have it?
I don't remember. The Dr. I used to see at the Spring St. Clinic, did
he diagnose it? No.
I think I read an article about it in a magazine. I probably discussed
it with Sis1, & we both had it. What does it feel like? O - it may hit
suddenly & then it's really awful. Body feels weak, shakey; the mind:
hysterical, into survival; mainly, there's a sudden, ravenous hunger:
"Must Eat Now!! Will Kill to Eat!" Not protein. Given a choice, the
food should be starchy to raise the blood sugar and oily to turn off
the screaming apestat.

Google: "Low blood glucose or hypoglycemia is one of the most common
problems associated with insulin treatment, but it can also happen to
people with diabetes taking pills. In general, hypoglycemia is defined
as a blood glucose level below 70 mg/dl."

So if hypoglycemia is low blood sugar and diabetes is high blood sugar,
what's the connection? ... I don't know. In both cases, one's Insulin
(pancreatic hormone) is not able to properly regulate blood sugar?

Pot - aka Marijuana. After I learned to smoke pot, mostly I didn't. I
never had any of my own. I was 25; it was the 60's, hippy era. I was
not a hippy, not a normy. At parties, someone would usually pass a
joint around. I'd take a hit just to be sociable; no doubt, I'd already
had a few drinks. Eventually, the pot did have an effect on me, but not
the normal one. I didn't get happy & giggly. I would just space out;
I'd go find a corner and lie down on the rug. I'd lie there almost unable
to move, sort of out of body but not floating - I could hear everything
going on around me, some of it rather distant, but I couldn't respond.

That happened about 3 times. So I no longer took a hit to be sociable.
If pressed, I'd just say, "It brings me down, not up." Later, in the 80's,
a dear pothead friend & neighbor explained to me, "Pot is a powerful
vasoconstrictor. You must have really poor circulation for it to knock
you out that way."

Bad habits: I do eat sugar; but before mid-afternoon, I restrict it to
honey. I do not exercise enough-regularly. When I exercise now, it's
usually just a short walk. One day a few months ago, I kept track of
the distance I went & walked until I'd done a quarter of a mile. It
made me much more tired than I expected.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 5:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Quote JEWELSTAITEFAN: "Running out of time for now. Are you aware of: Boost? Avoiding all sugar substitutes? (like aspertame, saccharin, sucralose). Do you have a nutritionist? Do you listen to a dietitian?

Some of those are trick questions, but will help me understand your gig."

BOOST Glucose Control: Nutritional Drink to Help Meet the Unique
Nutritional Needs of People With Diabetes


Ouch. I deserved this, keep forgetting the product has been sold so many times it is now owned by Nestle, and they have made some formula additions. NOT the GLUCOSE control, Nestle crammed sucralose in there, which will give you diabetes if you didn't already have it.
Fortunately, they still produce the ORIGINAL formula, which I always recommend to everybody. When they changed the name to Boost, they remarketed it to older folks. Fortunately, this has resulted in greater availability, so now it is easy to find. Boost has vitamins and minerals, and some ingredients which help the body rebuild, repair. Look at the label of the current 8oz Boost and find 25% USRDA (or the original Nutrament 12oz with 35% USRDA) of all the vitamins and minerals, like 24 of them, and about 250 cal (was 335 calories with 12oz). This has helped solve a lot of problems for many of my friends. But only get the original formula, unless you are big into bodybuilding and want the Plus version.
Quote:


^? That Boost? Nope, never heard of it. Just now looked it up.

I don't have a nutritionist or dietitian, no one with a well rounded
education in healthy diets. Recommended by a friend, I read Adele
Davis in the 60's, & immediately got into the habit of trying to use
supplements to correct both my health problems and my dietary errors.

Over the years, I've added bits of information here & there. I even
came to the conclusion a while back that there is no substitute for
a good diet.

BTW: Born in California and still here.


... oooOO}{OOooo ...



Cool. First time I found Nutrament (now renamed Boost) was in Laguna Niguel in 1984.

When people ask me how to figure out the diabetes solution, I have found that it is some balance or process with sugar, and carbohydrates, and you can learn from a GOOD nutritionist. I say GOOD because some apparently are not good. If any dietitian or nutritionist tells you to take the sucralose chemical in any form, in any product, avoid these people like the plague. Apparently dietitians are not as well trained, because they more frequently tell people to consume the pesticide sucralose. If a dietitian paid enough attention and learned, they can be OK, but it's no guaranty.
If you have not already avoided sucralose, I suggest you start immediately. You will likely experience a couple days of debilitating extreme headaches, keeping you from leaving your bed, if you go cold turkey.
Your chest pains and spasms? I've had several friends who had these and they went away after removing sucralose pesticide from their intake. It has become extremely insidious, they put it in milk, candy, headache and other medicines, canned fruits and vegetables, ice cream, most popcorn, everywhere. You'll need several weeks or perhaps months to allow your diabetes monitoring to level off or regulate, to find if your glands have been permanently damaged from the sucralose.

Good diet means well-rounded, I feel. I agree. However, I do not know which foods have the zinc for my daily USRDA, or the magnesium, etc. That is where the Boost comes in - it fills in the daily gaps where your decent diet misses.

Remind me to post my transition diet, it might help.
outta time again.

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:21 PM

OONJERAH


Splenda is sucralose.
List of Splenda Containing Foods:

http://naturalhealthtechniques.com/list-of-splenda-containing-foods.ht
m


I looked at a couple of sources that I felt would be on top of it
if sucralose is really harmful. They weren't. I thought I'd avoided
artificial sweeteners for years. Somehow, it didn't occur to me if
they add 'em to soft drinks, they will surely add them to processed
foods. Dohhh!

Then there's the GMOs. I've been more on the alert lately for high
fructose corn syrup.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

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Tuesday, July 8, 2014 10:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Hypoglycemia: I think I read an article about it in a magazine. I probably discussed
it with Sis1, & we both had it. What does it feel like? O - it may hit suddenly & then it's really awful. Body feels weak, shakey; the mind: hysterical, into survival; mainly, there's a sudden, ravenous hunger: "Must Eat Now!! Will Kill to Eat!" Not protein. Given a choice, the food should be starchy to raise the blood sugar and oily to turn off the screaming apestat."

FWIW I too have hypoglycemia, but mine's the reactive kind - after my blood sugar goes up after eating, my body produces too much insulin and my glucose drops like a stone. In school we had to do glucose tolerance tests on ourselves, involving overnite fasting, drinking sugar-water, and repeated blood glucose tests. But not the instant-reading glucometer kind - no, these were the painfully tedious ... add blood to Fehling's solution, incubate in a warm water bath, spin down etc etc etc ... takes a long time to get results kind. Anyway, we were supposed to continue for a few more hours but I said I feel terrible, I need to eat. When I got back and took the reading on my glucose, it was 45. Years later I found out the hospital 'panic value' where I worked was 40. The 'panic value' means imminent harm or risk of death. That was proof positive for me that those horrible feelings weren't just a product of my imagination.

Anyway, when your glucose drops quickly, or goes too low, or both, your body (if it reacts normally - not everyone's does) sets in motion two responses to fix the problem. One is the secretion of glucagon, which triggers the release of glucose stores from the liver and muscle (opposite of insulin). The other is the secretion of adrenalin, which does the same thing. It's the effects of adrenalin you're feeling when you get anxious, cold, sweaty and shaky as your body tries to quickly raise blood glucose levels. The part you DON'T feel is the potential brain damage from low blood glucose.

High blood glucose will get you in the long run, but too low a blood glucose can kill you immediately.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, July 9, 2014 2:31 AM

OONJERAH



Quote JSF: If I understand correctly, you had a bypass about 10 years ago, and had not used cinnamon regularly before that, and since then or about the same time started using it, right? Sounds like you are not disputing the benefits of cinnamon.

For this specific topic, you were not my intended audience - I was willing to provide the LEAD, or CLUE of cinnamon to those who did not already know.


Quote Kiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon

There are a few different species of cinnamon, including the two cheaper species commercially sold in the US (cassia aka aromaticaum, and burmannii) and a more expensive species sold elsewhere (zeylanicum aka verum).

Studies on the anti-diabetic properties of cinnamon have been done using cassia and verum. After initial enthusiasm though, more testing has reveal mixed results. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY.

One thing to be careful of is eating (or drinking) cinnamon itself. The cinnamon you get in the US is probably cassia. Cassia contains very high levels of coumarin, which thins the blood and can cause liver damage. Since the anti-diabetic compounds dissolve in water, but coumarin doesn't, you can safely use cinnamon chips in your tea, drinking the beverage and tossing the chips out.


I believe my older Sis told me long before the heart bypass that cin-
namon was an internal heater ... Yeah, I've been using it a long time
in very small amounts.

The trouble is ... It's cassia, not cinnamon, according to Kiki &
Wikipedia & this:
What is the difference between cinnamon and cassia?
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=newtip&dbid=31

Now what I plan to do is get Ceylon cinnamon zeylanicum or cinnamon
vera, & try the experiment again.

Quote JSF: Also, forgot to ask about blueberries - what do you know about, do you use, etc.

Are you also asking about diets? Are you "on a diet" now?

I'll try to help. What state are you in? Do you exercise? If so, what kind? Do your heart issues continue?

The reason this thread was of interest is because it seems even a little exercise does gobs of good for getting the body back into balance, chemically, hormonally, all around health.


Blueberries
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=8

Blueberries are high in antioxidants & resveratrol; they're a
nutritional superstar that's also delicious.
(Free Dictionary on Resveratrol: A natural compound found in grapes, mulberries, peanuts,
and other plants or food products, especially red wine, that may protect against cancer and
cardiovascular disease by acting as an antioxidant, antimutagen, and anti-inflammatory.)

Right after my heart surgery, a nurse in follow-up therapy told me to
eat resveratrol; said it was an anti-ageing nutrient also. She mainly
recommended very dark grape juice.

I don't buy a basket of blueberries, but eat 'em 2-3 times a week in
yogurt. Fresh ones would be better!

I'm often very tired, sometimes feel a bit of achey pressure around
the heart, but usually not.

I don't exercise enough at all. I'm an Easy-chair potatoe. My main
exercise is a short walk.

Diet: Tea & actual sourdough bread with almond butter for breakfast.
I eat a yogurt most days, & if not, cottage cheese. To feed the happy
intestinal microbes, you know. I eat quite a bit of canned food:
beans or vegies; usually a TV dinner later. ... I know I'm missing
something. Maybe just low on potassium, 'cause juices usually perk
me up.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what the clues are.

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Wednesday, July 9, 2014 2:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Apologies. I had not meant to hijack this thread. If anybody wants to start a new thread and copy my posts into it, that would be fine with me.

Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Splenda is sucralose.
List of Splenda Containing Foods:

http://naturalhealthtechniques.com/list-of-splenda-containing-foods.ht
m


I looked at a couple of sources that I felt would be on top of it
if sucralose is really harmful. They weren't. I thought I'd avoided
artificial sweeteners for years. Somehow, it didn't occur to me if
they add 'em to soft drinks, they will surely add them to processed
foods. Dohhh!

Then there's the GMOs. I've been more on the alert lately for high
fructose corn syrup.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.


Ummm. You mean they were not on top of the pesticide sucralose, or you think it is not harmful?

I forgot to mention, they also cram sucralose into so-called "fruit juice" and also "water" meaning bottled "water."

That linky you provided - key word is PARTIAL list of symptoms, and same for list of products.

Yes, avoiding HFCS is another way to avoid diabetes.

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Wednesday, July 9, 2014 3:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Quote JSF: If I understand correctly, you had a bypass about 10 years ago, and had not used cinnamon regularly before that, and since then or about the same time started using it, right? Sounds like you are not disputing the benefits of cinnamon.


Quote JSF: Also, forgot to ask about blueberries - what do you know about, do you use, etc.

Are you also asking about diets? Are you "on a diet" now?

I'll try to help. What state are you in? Do you exercise? If so, what kind? Do your heart issues continue?


Blueberries

I don't buy a basket of blueberries, but eat 'em 2-3 times a week in
yogurt. Fresh ones would be better!


Blueberries contain a main ingredient of Viagra. Viagra's well-known side effects were learned after it's prescribed use for heart patient issues. It's famous side effect is a control of the vascular action down there. Hence the mention regrading vasoconstrictor.
Quote:


I'm often very tired, sometimes feel a bit of achey pressure around
the heart, but usually not.

I don't exercise enough at all. I'm an Easy-chair potatoe. My main
exercise is a short walk.

Diet: Tea & actual sourdough bread with almond butter for breakfast.
I eat a yogurt most days, & if not, cottage cheese. To feed the happy
intestinal microbes, you know. I eat quite a bit of canned food:
beans or vegies; usually a TV dinner later. ... I know I'm missing
something. Maybe just low on potassium, 'cause juices usually perk
me up.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what the clues are.



BTW, wondered how you reacted to Ariel, when Simon's patient almost died due to vasoconstrictor conflicts.

I like making yogurt parfaits - that good Kaisha granola, fruit, layered with yogurt.

For diet:
You seem to have too much late in the day. I don't know your weight, or if it is an issue. You should wake up hungry, and have a decently large breakfast and lunch, and greatly reduce what you eat in the last 4 hours before you go to bed. Too much pasta, bread, meat before bed will just process and become fat, and mess up your chemical balance.

Transition Diet:
eat anything you want for breakfast, lunch, and up to the last 4 hours before bedtime. Moderation is better, but not essential until you've settled in.
last 4 hours eat any of this, as much as you wish:
Any soup.
any fruits or veggies, canned or fresh.
popcorn (not with sucralose)
any potato (not chips, prefer not fries) baked, mashed, salad, etc OK.
any nuts.

edit:
Also add Salads, any salad which does not include pasta.
and yogurt.
Fish/seafood up to the last 2 hours before bed. Mostly fish and seafood have less complex digestive processes, and can be processed within 2 hours without a load of fat added to the body.

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Wednesday, July 9, 2014 6:17 PM

OONJERAH



Quote JSF: "Apologies. I had not meant to hijack this thread. If anybody wants to start
a new thread and copy my posts into it, that would be fine with me."


KPO started this thread in Feb 2012. It got 2 replies & then slid into
the old thread boneyard.
Last month, I hijacked-resurrected this thread because: I wanted to
talk about health & I rarely start new threads.

G, JSF, you've both cautioned me against believing everything I read
on the internet including stuff from acquaintances on a forum.

OK. I am 71. I have been wrong not just once, but a whole bunch of
times in my life. Seekers of wisdom & truth & good data will develop
a wary skepticism, & a habit of testing new information.

The 'Net, the Great Information Highway is also, without any doubt,
the Great Mis-information Highway. Buyer beware!

When I post a link to an article I read, it doesn't mean I'm endorsing
it. It will more likely mean, "I read this article seeking information.
I can't prove or disprove its premise. What do you think of it?"

Back in the 40's-50's, I was raised to believe in the MDieties.
Doctors weren't just practicing; they knew what they were doing.
And
they were Good People! Now I believe: Doctors are individual
people; there might still be some good ones out there. But if they
work for a clinic or a hospital and do not have their own office,
chances are they've been caught up in a money-grubbing system =
my needs are a low priority to them.

Later we were taught to trust the FDA and product labeling. But I
don't trust those anymore.

Trust has gotten harder to find for me. So I am a skeptic willing
to test-try things. Also willing to give an ear to others, because
almost everyone knows more than I do about something!



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Part of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at.

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Wednesday, July 9, 2014 8:04 PM

OONJERAH


That Splenda you're drinking will be in our water supply for awhile
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post/that-splenda-youre-drinkin
g-will-be-2009-03-09/?id=that-splenda-youre-drinking-will-be-2009-03-09


"People like sucralose—the artificial sweetener marketed as Splenda—because the human body can’t break it down and use it. That means the substance has almost no calories and makes it a popular ingredient in everything from cookies to diet sodas. Unfortunately, it turns out that modern wastewater treatment methods don’t break down Splenda either."

Avoiding Artificial Sweeteners? This Study Will Surprise You...
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/20/why-are-
millions-of-americans-getting-this-synthetic-sweetener-in-their-drinking-water.aspx


"The average amounts of sucralose in source water and finished water was 440 ng/L and 350 ng/L respectively."

Water-water everywhere. And what's to drink?

I've been drinking bottled water, juice & Odwalla exclusively for
at least the last 2 years. I started buying bottled water after I
noticed that my public water is a bit colored. I figured I was the
only one, like maybe there's a crack in the pipe that serves just
me. But a close neighbor told me that hers is the same way ...
but since it looks clear after it runs a bit, they drink it anyway.

If there is sucralose in my bottled water, it's not on the labels.

If sucralose doesn't biodegrade for a real long time, like some of
the other pollutants we use & toss out, to me, that's a real good
reason to avoid it. Really!



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

A man's gotta know what's in his food & drink.

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Thursday, July 10, 2014 7:05 PM

THGRRI


Which Plastic Containers Can I Safely Use?

Plastic containers contain many chemicals, some of which have been identified as potentially harmful. You should avoid two chemicals in particular: bisphenol A and phthalates. Both of these chemicals interfere with animal and human hormones.

Researchers have better identified the harmful effects of bisphenol A; pthalates are generally considered safe by comparison. Still, better safe than sorry. Whether a plastic container has bisphenol A or phthalates in it depends on its type. You can identify the type of plastic in a container by looking at the recycling code number.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/158674-which-plastic-containers-can-
i-safely-use
/





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Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Ran out of time before.

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:


I'm often very tired, sometimes feel a bit of achey pressure around
the heart, but usually not.




Forgot to mention, often tired is another effect of sucralose, one friend of mine had a metabolism rate that the lab said was for a person in a coma - after 9 months of cold turkey from sucralose, they finally understood that her glands had become permanently damaged, but they did get her into the non-coma range.
Quote:


Quote:



Part of being smart is knowing what the clues are.




For diet:
You seem to have too much late in the day. I don't know your weight, or if it is an issue. You should wake up hungry, and have a decently large breakfast and lunch, and greatly reduce what you eat in the last 4 hours before you go to bed. Too much pasta, bread, meat before bed will just process and become fat, and mess up your chemical balance.

Transition Diet:
eat anything you want for breakfast, lunch, and up to the last 4 hours before bedtime. Moderation is better, but not essential until you've settled in.
last 4 hours eat any of this, as much as you wish:
Any soup.
any fruits or veggies, canned or fresh.
popcorn (not with sucralose)
any potato (not chips, prefer not fries) baked, mashed, salad, etc OK.
any nuts.


Forgot to mention salads - any salad that does not contain pasta.

The explanation:
This is not a punishment "diet." Eventually if you can avoid eating the last 4 hours, that would be great. Many friends have lost weight just on this alone, never transitioning to another diet. If you eat late one night, or on a date, big deal - you know about it, it shouldn't kill you, particularly if you go out dancing after dinner and burn off much of it before going to sleep.
Some people cannot go to bed hungry, and punishing yourself in this way is actually bad for you, your appetite, and your health habits.
Therefore, the list of acceptable foods.

Popcorn and potato products normally are filling enough that you will stop before you can really get too much calories or fats in you.
The rest have vitamins, minerals, readily available simple sugars, and should help alleviate the nutrition sensors in you which are triggering your "hungry" sense. Yet are easy for your body to break down without creating more fat cells.

So, eat enough that you are not "hungry" or "starving" when you retire, but have a healthy appetite when you awake.

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Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Avoiding Artificial Sweeteners? This Study Will Surprise You...
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/20/why-are-
millions-of-americans-getting-this-synthetic-sweetener-in-their-drinking-water.aspx


"The average amounts of sucralose in source water and finished water was 440 ng/L and 350 ng/L respectively."
Water-water everywhere. And what's to drink?



Fwiw - It looks to me like the linked site is one of those that appears to be very official, but is really just dressed up advertising - very effective and convincing. Maybe he's right, or maybe he's just a huckster. He definitely has something to gain from the skewing the info.

440ng per Liter - I had to look that up because, what the hell is an "ng" unit?

"Nanogram (ng) is a derived metric measurement unit of mass. The nanogram is equal to one billionth of a gram."

So 440/1,000,000,000 /gram to a liter seems quite infinitesimal.

I hear you though about water. Our water tastes dramatically different after a rain and at other times. I've called our water dept and asked about it and they said something like, "oh, I'll make a note to have them put more potash in at the treatment plant." That got me to switch to mostly bottled, but they taste so different from one to the other - some are sweeter. Makes you wonder if they aren't slipping something past the label.


Not adding or subtracting from your references, but sucralose is 600 times sweeter than sugar, so the actual presence should be considered 1/600th of what you are accustomed to. You may have heard of the common standard Parts Per MILLION. Now add all of the other pesticides within the trichlorinate (3 chlorine molecules bonded together, which is sucralose) group, plus chlorine itself, and does that add up to enough parts-per-million for you to be concerned about?

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Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Quote JSF: "Apologies. I had not meant to hijack this thread. If anybody wants to start
a new thread and copy my posts into it, that would be fine with me."


KPO started this thread in Feb 2012. It got 2 replies & then slid into
the old thread boneyard.


Back in the 40's-50's, I was raised to believe in the MDieties.
Doctors weren't just practicing; they knew what they were doing.
And
they were Good People!


That was before affirmative action, before doctors were considered so inconsequential and replaceable that incompetent and unqualified students could be sent to and admitted to medical schools in place of the most highly competent and qualified students to be found.
Quote:


Later we were taught to trust the FDA and product labeling. But I
don't trust those anymore.


FOOD and DRUG Administration. FOOD and DRUG. Where in any sensible mind do those two words belong together?

Regarding water: I love the fresh water I get from a spring about 1200 feet down. Bottled water: look at the brands next to the one you are getting. Or "vitamin waters"
If you want more info, check out "The 4th Phase of Water"
Some cities have outlawed water. Check out www.dhmo.org for details.

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Friday, July 11, 2014 12:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


OONJ

You seem to have low physical energy. I find that concerning. I'm pretty sure it's not 'age'. People don't feel bad from 'age', they feel bad from specific things going wrong. What makes you feel better? You mentioned juice? Real juice with potassium as well as natural fruit sugars, reconstituted without potassium but with natural fruit sugars, or drink with no potassium and made with HFCS? Does anything else help? Lying down? What makes you feel worse?

And, if you were potentially seriously ill, would you go to a doctor?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, July 11, 2014 1:13 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


440ng per Liter

a nano gram is .000000001 gram
a liter is 1000 milliliters, a milliliter is one gram, so a liter is 1000 grams


440 ng per liter is .000000440 grams per 1000 (thousand) grams, or with a little arithmetic
.000440 grams per 1,000,000 (million) grams
.440 grams per 1,000,000,000 (billion) grams
440 grams per 1,000,000,000,000 (trillion) grams


440ng per Liter is 440 parts per trillion




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, July 11, 2014 1:55 AM

OONJERAH


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
OONJ

You seem to have low physical energy. I find that concerning. I'm pretty sure it's not 'age'. People don't feel bad from 'age', they feel bad from specific things going wrong. What makes you feel better? You mentioned juice? Real juice with potassium as well as natural fruit sugars, reconstituted without potassium but with natural fruit sugars, or drink with no potassium and made with HFCS? Does anything else help? Lying down? What makes you feel worse?



I've had "chronic fatigue" a long time, possibly 20 years.
Liquids: In fridge ATM are Odwalla Original Super food (the green stuff),
100% organge juice, 100% apple juice, & a Pomegranate-Cherry juice
with grape & raspberry. Otherwise, I'm drinking Crystal Geyser bottled
water or tea made from it.

Most days, I get up & my solar plexus:third chakra is aquiver-trembly;
I feel tired, kinda hopeless; my 1st trick then is to recover from that;
to become focused, relaxed, energetic. Lately that often takes a couple
of hours. My 1st drink of the day is tea, usually black or green with
some spice in it. Thus my concerns about hypoglycemia. -- Used to be,
I didn't wake up with low blood sugar, and whenever it hit, a snack &
a bit of rest would fix it. Seems no point in lying down if I get up feeling
weak.
What makes me feel better? Been prone to depression all my life. I
think socializing is good for me. I like to talk. I enjoy being helpful
to others.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And, if you were potentially seriously ill, would you go to a doctor?



Current plan is to avoid Doctors-Hospital when-if I become ill. Also
don't bother to tell family.
OTOH, if it was a real painful illness, I'd probably ask a Dr. for pain
relief. Plan A is to die quietly, painlessly in my sleep ... after finding
homes for the cats.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Friday, July 11, 2014 2:25 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Everything you write sounds so very familiar. If I find an answer for me, I'll let you know.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, July 11, 2014 4:31 AM

OONJERAH



^ Answer: Keep on truckin' -- & take it easy, too.
Don't push yourself so much when that's a big pain.
Instead, do what you want and enjoy it. Do what's
interesting. Keep learning, just for fun.

Maybe it's time to review & adjust my goals.
Loving. I still have things to learn about loving.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Be True to Myself.

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Friday, July 11, 2014 4:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Oonj, don't believe everything you find on the internet, even if it's from well-meaning peeps like me.
I have helped many folk eradicate their health issues with my advice, but I always recommend they investigate a little or lot, and a second opinion is normally not a bad thing.
Here is my deal. There a gobs of info out there, remedies, theories. If you are not aware of them, and you hear from me something new, let it be a guide for you to check out, I can be you source, but don't use me as your doctor until you know me better and I have a better handle on all of your individual health states.



All good advice - I would say 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th opinions are required - why mess around?


Potentially illogical. The 3rd and 4th opinions would imply the first 2 are invalid. If 50% of opinions are false, how would you know that the last 2 were not the false ones?
Quote:


What's your medical/nutrition/health background JSF if you don't mind me asking?


None. You should not pay any attention to anything I say on these matters.

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Friday, July 11, 2014 4:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
OONJ

You seem to have low physical energy. I find that concerning. I'm pretty sure it's not 'age'. People don't feel bad from 'age', they feel bad from specific things going wrong. What makes you feel better? You mentioned juice? Real juice with potassium as well as natural fruit sugars, reconstituted without potassium but with natural fruit sugars, or drink with no potassium and made with HFCS? Does anything else help? Lying down? What makes you feel worse?



I've had "chronic fatigue" a long time, possibly 20 years.
Liquids: In fridge ATM are Odwalla Original Super food (the green stuff),
100% organge juice, 100% apple juice, & a Pomegranate-Cherry juice
with grape & raspberry. Otherwise, I'm drinking Crystal Geyser bottled
water or tea made from it.

Most days, I get up & my solar plexus:third chakra is aquiver-trembly;
I feel tired, kinda hopeless; my 1st trick then is to recover from that;
to become focused, relaxed, energetic. Lately that often takes a couple
of hours. My 1st drink of the day is tea, usually black or green with
some spice in it. Thus my concerns about hypoglycemia. -- Used to be,
I didn't wake up with low blood sugar, and whenever it hit, a snack &
a bit of rest would fix it. Seems no point in lying down if I get up feeling
weak.
What makes me feel better? Been prone to depression all my life. I
think socializing is good for me. I like to talk. I enjoy being helpful
to others.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And, if you were potentially seriously ill, would you go to a doctor?



Current plan is to avoid Doctors-Hospital when-if I become ill. Also
don't bother to tell family.
OTOH, if it was a real painful illness, I'd probably ask a Dr. for pain
relief. Plan A is to die quietly, painlessly in my sleep ... after finding
homes for the cats.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...


I'm assuming you know bananas are good source of potassium.
You likely didn't get much info from me regarding cinnamon - you already knew. Perhaps you got something useful from me otherwise. Any questions, let me know.

I am wondering if you do breathing workouts or exercises?
Exercises are essentially meditation and focus type activities. See YOGA.
Workouts are for improving health and lung efficiency.
If you are already doing meditation and such and are having difficulty with the inhalation, try this workout:
Find a weight that can be placed easily upon your chest, breastbone, sternum, and held with a finger or 2. 5 pounds or less should be fine.
Lay on your back on flat surface.
Place the weight on your sternum, hold in place with fingers - be absolutely sure you can remove the weight from your chest with little effort.
Exhale normally, but exhaling deeply (all the way) is better.
Inhale rapidly, pretending like you are launching the weight into the air, and preferably inhaling deeply (all the way, to peak chest height).
Exhale normally.
You can repeat the steps immediately, or you can breathe normally for a cycle or 2, doesn't matter too much.
Do a total of 10-15 repetitions of the rapid inhale part.
That is one set.
Remove the weight, breathe deeply a few times to relax and reduce stress.
After some other activity or rest, you may do another set exactly the same. No need for more than 3 sets per day. Always skip at least one day between.

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Friday, July 11, 2014 6:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I see this has been beat to death, but Ooonj you said a few things that concern me

Quote:

niacinamide 100 mg in front of me
Niacinamide is good for some things, but not for cholesterol. I don't see any need to take any more than 100 mg, and high doses can damage your liver.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/924.html

You said you're taking chromium. I took chromium once, and it made my insulin a little TOO effective.... dropped my blood sugar very low, made me hypoglycemic. I would stop taking chromium for a couple of weeks and see if the shakiness doesn't improve, particularly as it seems you are ALSO taking cinnamon (which also improves insulin sensitivity). In this case, it might be too much of a good thing.

It's not that I'm against supplements, I take quite a few, but the best source of nutrition is indeed whole natural food, with few modifications - lean meats, fish, fresh or frozen vegetables, fresh fruit, beans, nuts, whole grains and EGGS. Yes, eggs. Eggs are the only common source of choline in the diet (the other is liver), and EVERYBODY needs choline to make acetylcholine, which is the main excitatory neurotransmitter.

I would suggest taking a chelated magnesium supplement - not this, exactly, but here is an example. http://www.iherb.com/Bluebonnet-Nutrition-Magnesium-400-mg-200-Vcaps/9
663#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=magnesium%20400&rc=1599&sr=null&ic=1


Magnesium is found in nuts and seeds, whole grains, beans, fish, greens, and hard water but... really... who eats that??? It will help the blood vessels around your heart relax.


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Saturday, July 12, 2014 2:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh BTW Oonj... people my age... which means people YOUR age... usually don't absorb B12 very well. It's OK to take large oral doses, as nearly all of the B12 usually gets destroyed in the stomach of older people anyway (long story).

Quote:

Vitamin B12 deficiency can potentially cause severe and irreversible damage, especially to the brain and nervous system. At levels only slightly lower than normal, a range of symptoms such as fatigue, depression, and poor memory may be experienced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12

Any grocery store carries B12. You should give it a try!

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Saturday, July 12, 2014 7:08 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'm off to exercise enough for the next 4 or 5 months.

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Monday, July 14, 2014 8:16 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Wow. JSF can be normal, whowadda thought.

Great thread in amongst the madness here, I am enjoying the advice and suggestions.

re cinnamon, I wonder if we use cassia here. I often buy cinnamon sticks, which surely to god must be actual cinnamon.

Diets, health and eating = everybody says something different and it can be so confusing. There's a lot of misinformtation out there as far as I can determine.

One thing that they all agree on is that you cannot each too many fresh vegies. The fresher the better for you. The more variety the better for you. Choose different coloured vegies to eat with every meal.

The best most useful implement that I have in my kitchen is a juicer. I juuce nearly every day. Mostly veg, but with some fruit as sweetener. Celery, carrot, ginger, beetroot, spinach are the most common vegies I juice. If I juice regularly I feel different, better.

My mantra is the same as G. Choose food that has been tampered with as much as possible. If that is too hard to do, make sure that you AT LEAST eat fresh salad/steamed vegies as a supplement with your processed dish. Assume that processed food is empty calories with little/no nutritional content but full of harmful stuff, fats,sugars, chemicals, pesticides.

I am a big believer in Vit B, but its useful if your doc can test you for deficiencies. I was so deficient in B12 at one stage they thought I had pernicious anemia where you cannot absorb it orally and I had to get injections. Turns out I'm okay, but I tend to get low in B so I supplement. B affects energy and mood. B6 is great if you have trouble sleeping.

I'm also always low in D and am supposed to supplement. I do it sporadically. Just hate taking regular tablets.

Magnesium is also good for muscle pain and fatigue.

I have a few friends who suffer fybro myalgia and sound like similar symptoms to yours. The ones who do best use alternative therapies, as the mainstream solutions appear to be limited to increasing doses of pain relief which in itself produces further problems.

You have to move your body as you get older. Gentle walking is fine. Gentle yoga is great as well. Tai Chi is fantastic. Maybe there is a class near you, or if that is too costly as they are here, a dvd would do the trick.





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Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Place the weight on your sternum, hold in place with fingers - be absolutely sure you can remove the weight from your chest with little effort.
Exhale normally, but exhaling deeply (all the way) is better.
Inhale rapidly, pretending like you are launching the weight into the air, and preferably inhaling deeply (all the way, to peak chest height).
Exhale normally.
You can repeat the steps immediately, or you can breathe normally for a cycle or 2, doesn't matter too much.
Do a total of 10-15 repetitions of the rapid inhale part.
That is one set.
Remove the weight, breathe deeply a few times to relax and reduce stress.
After some other activity or rest, you may do another set exactly the same. No need for more than 3 sets per day. Always skip at least one day between.



For someone who had heart bypass surgery?? Sounds really iffy to me. SEE A DOCTOR OONJ. Find one you trust.


???
Heart bypass 10 years ago IIRC. Should be healed, chest and ribs. Should not have perforated the diaphragm substantially. This is an exercise for the muscles of the diaphragm.
You don't think everybody who has a bypass should become a vegetable for the next 10 years, do you? All of my paternal ancestors did not, and lasted much more than 10 years.

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Wednesday, July 16, 2014 12:26 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


FWIW - The symptoms could describe many things including chronic fatigue (the parts are ok they just don't work together), anemia, parkinson's, low thyroid, severe hypoglycemia, severe diabetes, uncontrolled high blood pressure, kidney failure, electrolyte imbalance, even heart failure. And from personal experience, one generally doesn't allude to death until one undergoes an episode of severe decline, such that if it continued, one could imagine death as an outcome. Those thoughts leave me cautious about making any suggestions in case they worsen a serious condition. A mirror, watch with a second hand, bp cuff, glucometer, multistix test strips, thermometer, tums, magnesium supplement, orange juice and coconut water could help with at-home self-testing to rule some of these things out. But in the absence of any firm data I find it difficult to have a helpful opinion.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, July 16, 2014 5:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
???
Heart bypass 10 years ago IIRC. Should be healed, chest and ribs. Should not have perforated the diaphragm substantially. This is an exercise for the muscles of the diaphragm.
You don't think everybody who has a bypass should become a vegetable for the next 10 years, do you? All of my paternal ancestors did not, and lasted much more than 10 years.



Lots of "shoulds" JSF.
The exercise you suggested is not something the body does naturally - a weight on the sternum?


You know lots of folks who do not breathe? or not on a regular basis? or don't normally breathe?
This is an inhalation workout.
All land based critters perform this task naturally, with weight which would be translated to the chest on most. You may have heard of PSIA, or "atmo" in certain sci-fi ventures. Inhalation, AKA expansion of the chest or ribcage, is pushing the sternum outward against the pressure (or "weight") of this very same atmosphere.
I was not aware until now that there were beings capable of interacting on this forum which were also not habitually breathing, or did not find breathing to be a "normal" activity.
This particular workout augments the resistance against inhalation during the workout period, so that inhalation activities outside the workout period are easier and more readily effective.

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