REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Re: All the "violent" protests by Occupy that you hear about

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, March 1, 2012 17:13
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Sunday, February 26, 2012 10:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Occupy is trying to bring any number of issues into the national conversation. We've had actions here against the banks, as well as many other issues including buying locally, supporting education, the environment, responsible government, banking locally,the problems with prisons, we have a weekly protest at the steps of city hall, where foreclosures are auctioned off, and more. Each Occupy movement operates separately and addresses the things in its area which need bringing to the attention of the public. You just don't hear about them. I took the time to find a few from around the country. Those of you who decry fracking might find this one of interest:
Quote:

'Occupy Well Street': Activist encourages peaceful Marcellus shale drilling protests

In the Pennsylvania hills where derrick lights cast an eerie glow into overcast skies, a frustration has begun to gnaw.

Some believe heavy industry is actively destroying all that’s pure and good around them. They can sense, like a toothache, the threat of fresh water fouled by chemicals.

Efforts to get lawmakers to do anything about it have failed. The rallies in the Capitol Rotunda, the marches in the streets, the picket signs, the chants, the calls and letters — none of it has meant a damn.

The recently passed fee on natural gas-drilling operations — one of the lowest in the nation — comes with a provision that requires every municipality in Pennsylvania to allow drilling.

“More people are angry about the gas-drilling situation,” says Mark Schmerling, a photographer and writer with deep ties to the state’s northern tier. “And they are losing patience with elected officials who are either crookedly, or stupidly, enabling the industry, when renewable energy is present and proven.”

Some believe it’s time for a new strategy.

Alexander Lotorto is ready to help them. He has written a how-to manual on shutting down drilling operations. It outlines the tactics for a successful sit-in. It directs designating people to talk to the police, the gas workers and the media. And some people must be ready with money for bail.

Lotorto emphasizes nonviolent protest.

He’s training volunteers. About 15 attended a training in January, another 20 were at a training session in Bloomsburg last week.

Some activists who shut down a deep-injection well in Ohio after earthquakes there were trained by Lotorto.

“You don’t live [in rural Pennsylvania] unless you’re in love with it,” Lotorto says.

He believes it’s time for direct action. The two great protest movements of 2011 have spawned a hybrid.

The “Occupy” movement that began last year on Wall Street has crossed with the anti-fracking protest in Pennsylvania to produce “Occupy Well Street.”

It’s more than a clever play on words, and the gas industry knows it. Off the record, it’s nervous.

There’s a rumble among the anti-frackers. Some say it’s time the corporations felt the pinch. Some are concluding that it’s worth arrest and time in jail.

They agree: This will be the year it happens.

Windle has seen Lotorto’s guide to shutting down a drilling site.

“Our first concern is safety,” he says, but the guide also “sheds light on the umbilical-like connection between the various fringe groups who seek to disrupt and halt” the development of shale gas.

Those who joined the freedom rides in the 1960s were not mainstream, but they changed the country, he says. The iconic environmental battles — whaling, logging forests, mountaintop removal of coal — all have images of people risking arrest.

Lotorto hopes to galvanize the mainstream to support the cause.

“It’s unfortunate that any group has to resort to nonviolent direct action,” Lotorto says. “It’s unfortunate the gas industry mocks us. ... I don’t want anyone to get hurt, but I do want to show what we’re willing to risk.”

Lotorto is one of a few people who have a foot in both the Occupy and anti-fracking activist camps.

From his perspective, each has valuable traits to offer the other. Anti-fracking brings focus to the often-nebulous Occupy movement; Occupy brings effective technique.

“It’s primarily city people doing Occupy,” he says. “We [in rural Pennsylvania] don’t have corporate offices, but we do have gas wells. They are the biggest footprint Wall Street has in our communities.”

He is deeply involved in the Occupy Scranton protest, but he was an anti-fracker first. Lots more at http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/02/occupy_well_street_
activist_en.html
] Kansas:
Quote:

About 150 protesters marched through downtown Wichita on Saturday afternoon as activists from across the country gathered for the weekend “Occupy Koch Town” rally.

Although the block-long line of protesters temporarily blocked several major intersections, the march was peaceful, and police made no arrests and issued no citations.

The rally, which was organized by the Sierra Clubs of Kansas and Missouri and area Occupy movements, began about 2 p.m. at the Grand Chapel, 828 N. Broadway. Throughout the day, speakers addressed a variety of issues dealing with energy, environmental, climate policies and the controversial Keystone pipeline.

Among those attending was Nick Brothers of St. Joseph, Mo., who said he had attended several other Occupy rallies, all of them peaceful.

“It’s well known that Koch brothers are deeply imbedded in right-wing politics, and that’s their right,” he said, “But they’re using their money to destroy the environment.”

Among the marchers was Doris Ravenfeather, a retired nurse from Wichita, who said her concerns about the environment prompted her to join the protest.

“My major thing is protecting nature,” she said as she walked toward Century II. “We’ve got to save our land. I’m tired of seeing it abused.”

Brothers, the St. Joseph resident who is studying political science at Missouri Western State University, said the reaction from most passersby was positive, but he said there were occasional sneers and shouts of “Get a job.”

“It’s been mostly honks of solidarity and thumbs up,” he said. http://www.kansascity.com/2012/02/18/3437584/occupy-march-brings-about
-150.html
] After nearly three months of calling the front yard of City Hall home, about 60 Occupy Asheville protesters peacefully broke camp Friday afternoon, vowing to continue demonstrating elsewhere against wealth disparity, homelessness and other societal ills.

“We’re like meerkats that way,” an Occupy protester who would only identify herself only as Gyspi said. “I think we’ve accomplished a lot. A lot of people have come around, and after seeing us out here, people have come by to learn more about the Occupy movement.”

Nearby, campers bustled to fold up tents and clean the area. Occasionally, some chanted slogans and banged on drums, but no semblance of violence touched this eviction.

Some campers remained on site after 10 p.m., and three were arrested as an act of civil disobedience after refusing to remove their tents from in front of City Hall. http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20120218/NEWS/302180028?odyssey=m
od%7Cmostcom
example of some of the "violence" Occupy is guilty of:
Quote:

Sarasota Police arrested a disabled Occupy Sarasota member Saturday afternoon for writing slogans in chalk on the sidewalks of Five Points Park.

The slogans included “Make love not war,” “Give peace a chance,” and “Go hippies.”

The half-dozen members of the group who were at the park are furious, saying they obtained permission to write their messages from City Hall.

“It made me sick to my stomach to watch,” said Leslie Tetrault.

Tetrault and others in the group identified their arrested member as Chris Young, 40, a disabled Iraq War veteran who walks with a cane. Young's disability is not service related.

Several group members captured the officer handcuffing Young on their cell phones. The video shows the officer's knee is in the middle of Young's back, and Young limping while he is being led away.

John Mathias witnessed the arrest from the second floor of the nearby Selby Public Library. He likened the officer's actions to “a bully picking a fight.”

Mathias said he is not an Occupy Sarasota member, though he is sympathetic with some of their goals. He was not aware the group was meeting in the park Saturday.

“It didn't look right,” Mathias said of the arrest. “It was too quick. If this gentlemen was on all four writing and he had a disability, he had no time to comply with the officer's orders. It looked like a bully picking a fight, and that's what I put in my report.”

After the arrest, Mathias made a formal complaint against the officer at the Police Department. The nature of his complaint: “police aggression.”

Castro said it is illegal to write on the sidewalks in chalk unless the group had a special permit. If Occupy Sarasota received permission to write on the sidewalks, Castro said, they should have told the officer.

Neri wrote that he only intended to identify Young and ban him from the park.
However, he stated that Young had a “combative nature” and demanded to see a copy of the city ordinance because he did not think he was doing anything wrong.

When he tried to arrest Young, Neri wrote, the man attempted to pull away. "Neri was eventually able to gain physical control of both arms and safely place him into custody,” the officer wrote.
Young's friends are stunned all this happened over a few words on the sidewalk. http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20120225/BREAKING/120229652/-1/ne
ws?p=3&tc=pg
sure they reported the beginnings of this one in Philadelphia, but how far in the back of the newspaper do you think this follow-up story was?
Quote:

Ten members of Occupy Philly were on trial today on charges that they obstructed a highway on October 23, 2011. The demonstration on trial was meant to be a message against police brutality and lasted the better part of that weekend. On Sunday, around noon, 15 Occupiers were arrested and the pre-trial for 10 of them was held this morning. It would end in acquittal and Occu-smiles all over 13th and Filbert.

Evidence was played around 10 a.m. in the form of a video taken by the Philadelphia Police audio/visual team. It showed the protesters in the middle of the street on Sunday morning, and police cars blocking Eighth Street to protect the demonstrators. The video went on for the better part of an hour, with the Commonwealth lawyer fast-forwarding through several parts. It showed protesters sitting in the streets, singing, chanting, “We are peaceful protesters,” and saying they will move as soon as police offer an apology to them for police brutality in the past. As was the norm, Fisher gave the protesters three warnings to leave the street and even offered them a place to demonstrate around the corner, but they weren’t going anywhere. Police then arrested them.

The defense lawyers pointed out that it was actually the police who were obstructing the highway with their cars. And since Fisher wasn’t around when the protest began, and therefore not around when the police cars began obstructing the highway, he could not say for sure whether the 10 individuals on hand were the ones who originally blocked Eighth Street that weekend. Just that they were there at the end.

During a recess around 11:20 a.m., Occupy member Gina Apuzzo, who will face trial on April 12 for protesting inside a Center City Wells Fargo bank, said Occupy members taking their cases to trial is meant to send another message. “People don’t all realize that in Philadelphia, they’re the number one giver of foreclosures. They can mortgage people out of their homes. They stole $332 million from the Philadelphia school district, they engage in racist predatory lending…and people still look at it like it’s this thing that’s too big to fail,” she said, adding she wants to cast a “huge fucking light” on these issues. “That’s why I’m going to trial, but that’s just me.”

Back in the courtroom, the defense attorneys, beginning with Paul J. Hetznecker, began making their case for acquittal. First up: the idea that streets and sidewalks are both spots in which one may exercise their First Amendment rights.

Also brought up was the right of the police to end the protest, at noon Sunday, when they did. If this were 9 a.m. on Monday morning, perhaps there’d be precedent for stopping the protest, said Hetznecker

Attorney Lloyd Long explained the law definition of “obstruct” and said it means to make a highway unpassable. “These people didn’t do that,” he said. “Police did.”

(It ended in the protesters being acquitted)

Reached after the acquittal, Atty. Lloyd Long told PW the decision was the right one. Though had the case gone on, “I think the judge would have found that there was a First Amendment right to assembly,” he said. “I think it sets precedent that the courts are the great equalizer. I think that in America, we’ve always relied on the courts to protect our rights, to vindicate our rights and find that there are times to stand out and say things that may be unpopular.” More at http://blogs.philadelphiaweekly.com/phillynow/2012/02/23/occupy-philly
-protesters-acquitted-of-obstructing-highway/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=occupy-philly-protesters-acquitted-of-obstructing-highway
to what you read contrasted with what really happens, here's one from Santa Cruz, CA:
Quote:

SC Patch recently published a garbled, misleading, and inflammatory story about recent peaceful protests by Occupy Santa Cruz against the Well Fargo Banksters. I reprint that story and my response. I'm unable to get it published on scpatch.com . Patch reporters were at the February 15 sidewalk protest outside the Wells Fargo Bank at 74 River St. scene (as well as inside the vacant bank at 75 River St. three months before). They should and probably do know better what went down. It could be their honest reporting was clipped, snipped, and photoshopped by their editor. If so, I encourage them to speak out. This story discredits scpatch.com.

Original report:
Quote:

"Occupy Santa Cruz protesters took to the street outside the Wells Fargo Bank on River Street Wednesday, complaining about the indictments of 11 of their members who took over and vandalized an empty bank building at 75 River St. in November.

Alex Darocy, who is up on trespass charges and was seen covering the bank's windows with cardboard on the night of the takeover, recorded this confrontation with Deputy Chief Steve Clark and posted it on YouTube.

On their Facebook page, after midnight Friday, the Occupiers said they were going to re-occupy again with a 24-hour presence.

Yesterday was OSC concensed upon action by Direct Action Working Group. We gathered at Wells Fargo at 3pm and maintained our protest for over three hours. Wells Fargo was shut down for 2 1/2 hours – they closed for the day. The police showed up in force and harassed demonstrators for a brief period of time.

A Media Group member was viewing livestream and live tweeting. Media group will be publishing account of police harassment. Very offended by the way peaceful protesters were treated.

Another Occupier encouraged autonomous action to mask up at such events. Police were walking around yesterday with cameras."

The real story:
Quote:

THE REAL STORY

The real issues which this Patch article ignores are the important ones:
Wells Fargo's pervasive felonious conduct [See http://www.wellsfargomortgagefraud.com/]

And the steady agenda of Chief Vogel's SCPD and Sheriff Wowak's Deputies to criminalize peaceful protest by Occupy Santa Cruz .

As early as the first day of the courthouse steps protest on October 7th, authorities were doing what they could to disperse and criminalize peaceful demonstrations in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street. [See “Updates from Occupy Santa Cruz: Relocation to the Courthouse” at http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/10/07/18692660.php ]

I present my own perspective on the current round of toxic persecutions at http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/localnews/ci_19998753

Patch garbles and conflates different groups and time periods in a story which seems intended to smear protesters .

For a summary of reasons for the peaceful sidewalk protest of February 15th, go to “Conspiracy to Commit Journalism” at http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2012/02/16/pre-arraignment_flyer.pdf .

That protest successfully targeted the well-known unindicted felonious conspirator the Wells Fargo Bank at 74 River St., which the Patchites seem utterly uninterested in addressing.Police overreacted (in what now seems a fairly routine manner) at the February 15th protest with provocative surveillance and physical intervention (really more like false arrests).

Officers Warren and Winston parked their squad car across the street and seemed to be ostentatiously videoing folks holding signs and walking up and down on the public sidewalk. They then waded in to grab and interrogate protesters.

Subsequently Deputy Chief Steve Clark spearheaded a line of Keystone Kops leveling threats and taunts against reporters and activists there.. See “Is this how it is going to be now? re: SCPD Response to Demo at Wells Fargo” at http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2012/02/17/18707576.php

The D.A.'s collusion in pressing false charges against the Santa Cruz Eleven, of course, is enabling this kind of local police intimidation.

The Patch story and police behavior divert attention from the real issues of the documented and ongoing financial felonies of a far more serious sort by local banks and possible collusion or paralysis of local authorities around this situation. Again, take a look at http://www.wellsfargomortgagefraud.com/

The recent Re-Occupation quotes on Facebook have to do with reclaiming the right to peacefully hold a sign in front of the County Building on the Ocean St. steps after 7 PM, which has been criminalized with an unprecedented curfew. Go to “ Protesters Engage in Civil Disobedience Against Courthouse Curfew” at http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/12/19/18703071.php

See also “Targeting Journalists Covering OWS Protests” at http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2012/01/08/18704363.php . http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2012/02/23/18707993.php Jersey:
Quote:

Protesters said that members of Newark’s Sanitation Department told the group Tuesday afternoon that they would clear the encampment beginning at 11:30 p.m. that evening.

Tobias Fox, a protester, said there was no violence and no one was arrested as the park was cleared. Resistance by Occupy Newark was limited to chanting, he said.

“A few people wanted to get arrested, but to their disappointment, they weren’t,” Fox said. “We were expecting batons, mace, tear gas, the works. But instead we got a pretty peaceful group of enforcers.”

Fox , 40 years old, said about 40 police officials began arriving at Military Park in downtown Newark at midnight. He said fire vehicles, police vans, a special task force unit, several unmarked cars, a team of sanitation workers with Dumpsters participated in the eviction.

“We’re coming there to educate,” she said. “I believe it’s time for demands,” which she said include more affordable housing in the city and the provision that Prudential pay back taxes owed to the city. “The city is struggling so much,” she said. “We need to set an example.” http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2012/02/15/peaceful-midnight-sweep-cle
ars-occupy-newark/
in Berserkeley:
Quote:

UC Police officers detained 18 Occupy Cal demonstrators at UC Berkeley’s Doe Library on Friday after the group disregarded campus administrators’ warnings to vacate the encampment or face legal repercussions.

All protesters dispersed peacefully. The group migrated from its previous establishment outside Sproul Hall to Doe Library on Tuesday and has yet to reach a decision on whether to re-erect tents elsewhere on campus.
Student protesters at UC Davis have been engaging in their own brand of civil disobedience, maintaining a presence at the campus’ branch of the U.S. Bank inside the Memorial Union student center. Participants began blockading the outpost in January, forcing it to close on several occasions. http://www.dailynexus.com/2012-02-22/campus-cops-confront-peaceful-pro
testers/
the way, that march the police were supposedly so busy "monitoring" so they couldn't respond to the 911 call? You haven't heard about THAT either, because it wasn't newsworthy:
Quote:

Following a peaceful Occupy Oakland anti-police brutality protest Saturday night, two people were arrested after allegedly kicking and struggling with officers, police said.

As police were leaving, a woman was arrested on suspicion of battery after allegedly kicking a police car as well as an Oakland police sergeant's leg. A man tried to pull the woman away from officers and was arrested on suspicion of interrupting an arrest.

This is the second Saturday night march to go off relatively peacefully since a clash between Occupy protesters and Oakland police that led to more than 400 arrests in late January.

This week, the crowd set out by about 9 p.m. from Frank Ogawa Plaza, the one-time home of the Occupy camp, through nearby streets, and marched without any clashes. http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_19949260

I think I've made my point.

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:02 PM

MUTT999




Niki, this is what pisses me off:






Etc, etc, etc........

I'm all for peaceful protest and sanity, but Occupy ain't it. Never has been.

Now, the Left will say these are the exceptions, I'm just not seeing it.




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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So, a girl gets raped and robbed, and the Occupy folks don't want no body to do a DAMN thing about it ? And one guy has the nerve to say they have their own security people looking into things... Um, apparently NOT! Good grief.

Oh, and the young punk who claims ' the govt WANTS us to use drugs', so they can then come in an bust them... pure idiocy. No one is FORCING that needle in your arm, dumb ass.

Unbelievable.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:26 PM

MUTT999



Okay, this one might be a bit snarky, but, it is freakin' funny, if not a bit sad.






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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE!!!!


OMFG! That's so gorram funny!


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:45 PM

OONJERAH



Occupy Oakland Clashes: Videos of masked youths smashing windows

I see peaceful protesters walking away, not engaging the "masked youths."
I do not assume the "masked youths" are part of Occupy ... not at all. I am curious about who they really were.


Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:54 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by MUTT999:


Now, the Left will say these are the exceptions, I'm just not seeing it.



For every Occypier who may engage in volence, there are literally thousands who have not.

You might want to educate yourself as to the meaning of the word "exception". And send and angry letter to your 2nd grade teacher maybe, 'cuz you missed something pretty basic.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:54 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

The United States has a population of about 313 million, 2 million of which is incarcerated at any given time. (as of 2002)

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aaprisonpop.htm

What this means to me is that out of any group of 313 people, more than 2 of them are likely to be criminals. (Assuming that not every criminal is caught and put in jail, then the ratio is actually greater than 2 per 313.)

If 1000 people show up to an event, I can assume that at least 6 of them are criminals. Statistically.

If 10,000 people show up to an event, I can assume that at least 60 of them are criminals. Statistically.

This is likely to be true of any assembly of human beings.

What interests me is what the other 9,940 are doing. That's what a group is about.

I will say this: The other 9,940 need to react much more strongly and dynamically to the actions of the other 60, because invariably people will assume that the heinous 1% represent the other 99.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Occupy Oakland Clashes: Videos of masked youths smashing windows

I see peaceful protesters walking away, not engaging the "masked youths."
I do not assume the "masked youths" are part of Occupy ... not at all. I am curious about who they really were.

.



Certainly seems ( in that 1st video ) a small contingent of folks, intent on vandalism, were acting up on their own accord. Those around them were meekly trying to stop the violence, or simply stood there and watched.

Anyone catch that punk shove that one girl in the back ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:57 PM

MUTT999


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by MUTT999:


Now, the Left will say these are the exceptions, I'm just not seeing it.



For every Occypier who may engage in volence, there are literally thousands who have not.

You might want to educate yourself as to the meaning of the word "exception". And send and angry letter to your 2nd grade teacher maybe, 'cuz you missed something pretty basic.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




And you might want to check your spelling............


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Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:59 PM

STORYMARK


Bully for you.

And you're right - my misspelling a word, like, totally overshadows your not understanding one. You get a golf clap!

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 1:03 PM

MUTT999


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Occupy Oakland Clashes: Videos of masked youths smashing windows

I see peaceful protesters walking away, not engaging the "masked youths."
I do not assume the "masked youths" are part of Occupy ... not at all. I am curious about who they really were.

.



Certainly seems ( in that 1st video ) a small contingent of folks, intent on vandalism, were acting up on their own accord. Those around them were meekly trying to stop the violence, or simply stood there and watched.

Anyone catch that punk shove that one girl in the back ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Towards the end of the video you see the Occupiers clapping and urging them on.





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Sunday, February 26, 2012 1:14 PM

MUTT999


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by MUTT999:


Now, the Left will say these are the exceptions, I'm just not seeing it.



For every Occypier who may engage in volence, there are literally thousands who have not.

You might want to educate yourself as to the meaning of the word "exception". And send and angry letter to your 2nd grade teacher maybe, 'cuz you missed something pretty basic.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




And what's with the personal attack?






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Sunday, February 26, 2012 1:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by MUTT999:


And what's with the personal attack?




It's their way. When ever anyone questions their sacred cows, they respond in that sort of fashion.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


OOOooohhhh, we have a sock puppet.

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:21 PM

BYTEMITE


Oonjerah: There are two kinds of anarchists in this world. Those who want to subvert the existing system to bring about better policies and social activity, and people who call themselves anarchists just so they can smash thing.

The vandals in the videos are PROBABLY neither. They're either opportunists or they're out deliberately make a bad situation worse by association. Most likely the former, though we know for a fact there's a few of the later out there.

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 3:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
OOOooohhhh, we have a sock puppet.


Gee, you think ?

Oh, and since no one else has mentioned it, despite PROOF in a couple case having been posted here, said "masked anarchists" are usually cops you know.

The key and telling point for me was that the whole masked thing started right AFTER we outed several police plants within the Occupy ranks and humiliated them and their departments for it.

That's not to say there's not a certain percentage of dickheads with ill intentions in ANY large group regardless of its purpose, but as a rule those kind of incidents are usually created on purpose by planted provocateurs, as has been proven, over and over and over again with various orgs from anti-war old ladies to hardcore ultranationalists...

But despite reams and mountains of evidence of exactly how the so-called authorities operate, despite hard proof they've done this time and time again - people still grab at the ever thinning fiction and jump to on command like good little puppets, just like they're supposed to.
*golf-clap*

Good job, now for your next trick roll over and beg for the masters while pretending you're in charge, oh isn't it CUTE...

Nobody Is Innocent.

-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 5:53 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by MUTT999:


Niki, this is what pisses me off:






Etc, etc, etc........

I'm all for peaceful protest and sanity, but Occupy ain't it. Never has been.

Now, the Left will say these are the exceptions, I'm just not seeing it.







why do conservatives capitalize 'the Left' when they write it?

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Sunday, February 26, 2012 5:54 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

why do conservatives capitalize 'the Left' when they write it?


Hello,

It is a gesture of respect.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, February 26, 2012 9:45 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Anthony I really liked your post with the numbers in it, I think the world would do well to read it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 27, 2012 2:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by MUTT999:


And what's with the personal attack?




It's their way. When ever anyone questions their sacred cows, they respond in that sort of fashion.




Ah, I see. Like when someone questions your version of the Gibson raid, right? Anyone who disagrees with you, out come the insults and personal attacks.

I never realized were you on the left, but now it makes sense.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, February 27, 2012 4:54 AM

BYTEMITE


I was getting at that, actually. I like to be vague and then allow people to think about who would have the motivation and benefit from these activities.

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Monday, February 27, 2012 8:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I have to get the dogs out, so will come back, but read the first response so will respond to that:

Mutt, the masked people you see call themselves the "Black Bloc"; self-proclaimed anarchists who have used various OccupyOakland demonstrations to cause damage and mayhem. It's happened repeatedly; they are in NO way affiliated with OccupyOakland and are decried by same. In one of the port closures, OccupyOakland protesters who came upon them chased them off, then STAYED to help repair the damage and erase the graffiti they caused. In order to be honest, one has to remove anything done by the Black Bloc from being connected to the Occupy movement. They are one of the worst examples of those who are using Occupy to engage in criminality. Occupy is trying to get a handle on them, but they're elusive, and since they ALWAYS wear masks, they're hard to identify.

I'll watch the other videos and respond when I return.



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Monday, February 27, 2012 8:37 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
OOOooohhhh, we have a sock puppet.



Someone's gotta stand up for the poor boy, even if it is his own self.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, way after the fact, but I watched all the videos.

As to the first one, as I said, it's the Black Bloc. You can see that every single person engaged in the violence is wearing all black and masked. End of story. And no, I didn't see them clapping at the end--I saw a couple of people raise their fists and clap, and I heard one guy yelling...but I also saw the Occupiers trying to stop them and yelling at them to stop. I'm not going to debate about the Black Bloc.

The second one is from FauxNews. Sorry, I accept nothing from FauxNews unless there is proof to back it up.

The third one I heard a woman talking about being raped and saying Occupy told her to sleep in a tent with a stranger. I also heard that Occupy said they didn't tell anyone where to sleep. Given that dichotomy, I'll believe Occupy, thank you.

In the end; of course there are a few (as Anthony so clearly indicated) people who will take advantage of the situation, that will happen anywhere people gather. There's no question in my mind that some have acted out--whether they are Occupiers or not, I cannot say...nor can anyone else. They might well have been attracted to the movement and just be that kind of person, I'm sure there are THOSE, too. By and large, the movement is peaceful, and considering the thousands and thousands of people protesting in cities across the country, I have no doubt things have happened. Beyond that, I see this thread is no longer of interest to others, so I will leave it there.



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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:21 PM

OONJERAH



Today:
Reconsidering Violence And Nonviolence In The Era Of Occupy => http://www.countercurrents.org/acosta280212.htm

"By now anyone who is interested in the future of Occupy has read or heard about Chris Hedges' article wherein he decries
Black Bloc as a “cancer” on the movement. Since then Hedges has been roundly criticized for failing to understand that
Black Bloc is a tactic, rather than an organization ..."

At the end of Acosta's column, I'm quoting the whole quote as being a Very relevant quote.
"One is reminded of the words of the great abolitionist, writer, and orator, Frederick Douglass:

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit
to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue
till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of
those whom they oppress. (1857 speech on West India Emancipation , New York )."

Does Douglass say that people must resort to blows to make a change? Maybe.
But in the '60's, calm, persistent, peaceful protest finally won the day.


Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:54 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Since then Hedges has been roundly criticized for failing to understand that
Black Bloc is a tactic, rather than an organization



Hello,

I think it's common for people to become identified with their tactics. Hacking/hackers. Guerilla tactics, Guerilla fighters. This distinguishes those who use the tactics from those who do not.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Thursday, March 1, 2012 5:13 PM

OONJERAH



Hmmmm. I am too slow to see the difference.
Black Bloc is not an Org.     -?-
A group of masked people dressed in black who attend an Occupy event and do vandalism there "are black blocing."
Since they are not an org, they could just as well show up as masked people wearing red. Is that the case?


Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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