REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Friess apologizes for birth control comment

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 07:29
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Monday, February 27, 2012 7:59 PM

BYTEMITE


Oh. Thought you were quoting The Eden Express and gleaned a different meaning than was intended.

I think.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:11 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I think that the research will consolidate in the next 10 to 20 years, and will show much more clearly the actual affects and I predict that the outcomes will be on a par with the affects or alcohol, or worse. I believe that it will be less harmful physically, but more harmful cognitively. Just my predictions.



Virtually all studies contradict this, just FYI.




which bit? There are plenty of studies which document the harmful effects of marijuana.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mental_Health_Letter
/2010/April/medical-marijuana-and-the-mind
details the risks (as well as some perceived positive uses)

Quote:

Part of the reason marijuana works to relieve pain and quell nausea is that, in some people, it reduces anxiety, improves mood, and acts as a sedative. But so far the few studies evaluating the use of marijuana as a treatment for psychiatric disorders are inconclusive, partly because this drug may have contradictory effects in the brain depending on the dose of the drug and inborn genetic vulnerability.

Much more is known about the psychiatric risks of marijuana (whether used for recreational or medical purposes) than its benefits.

Addiction. Observational studies suggest that one in nine people who smokes marijuana regularly becomes dependent on it. Research both in animals and in people provides evidence that marijuana is an addictive substance, especially when used for prolonged periods.

Addiction specialists note with concern that THC concentration has been increasing in the herbal form of marijuana. In the United States, THC concentrations in marijuana sold on the street used to range from 1% to 4% of the total product; by 2003, average THC concentration had risen to 7%. Similar trends are reported in Europe. This increased potency might also accelerate development of dependence.

Less conclusive is the notion that marijuana is a "gateway drug" that leads people to experiment with "hard" drugs such as cocaine. The research is conflicting.

Anxiety. Although many recreational users say that smoking marijuana calms them down, for others it has the opposite effect. In fact, the most commonly reported side effects of smoking marijuana are intense anxiety and panic attacks. Studies report that about 20% to 30% of recreational users experience such problems after smoking marijuana. The people most vulnerable are those who have never used marijuana before.

Dose of THC also matters. At low doses, THC can be sedating. At higher doses, however, this substance can induce intense episodes of anxiety.

It is not yet known whether marijuana increases the risk of developing a persistent anxiety disorder. Observational studies have produced conflicting findings. Studies of recreational users suggest that many suffer from anxiety, and it's difficult to know what underlies this association. Possibilities include selection bias (e.g., that anxious people are more likely to use marijuana), a rebound phenomenon (e.g., that marijuana smokers feel worse when withdrawing from the substance), and other reasons (e.g., genetic vulnerability).

Mood disorders. Little controlled research has been done about how marijuana use affects patients with bipolar disorder. Many patients with bipolar disorder use marijuana, and the drug appears to induce manic episodes and increases rapid cycling between manic and depressive moods. But it is not yet clear whether people who use marijuana are at increased risk of developing bipolar disorder.

The small amount of research available on depression is also muddied. In line with what studies report about anxiety, many marijuana users describe an improvement in mood. Animal studies have suggested that components of marijuana may have antidepressant effects. Yet several observational studies have suggested that daily marijuana use may, in some users, actually increase symptoms of depression or promote the development of this disorder.

For example, an Australian study that followed the outcomes of 1,601 students found that those who used marijuana at least once a week at ages 14 or 15 were twice as likely to develop depression seven years later as those who never smoked the substance — even after adjusting for other factors. Young women who smoked marijuana daily were five times as likely to develop depression seven years later as their non-smoking peers. Although such studies do not prove cause and effect, the dose-outcomes relationship is particularly worrisome.

Psychosis. Marijuana exacerbates psychotic symptoms and worsens outcomes in patients already diagnosed with schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders. Several large observational studies also strongly suggest that using marijuana — particularly in the early teenage years — can increase risk of developing psychosis.

An often-cited study of more than 50,000 young Swedish soldiers, for example, found that those who had smoked marijuana at least once were more than twice as likely to develop schizophrenia as those who had not smoked marijuana. The heaviest users (who said they had used the drug more than 50 times) were six times as likely to develop schizophrenia as the nonsmokers.

Until recently, the consensus view was that this reflected selection bias: Individuals who were already vulnerable to developing psychosis or in the early stages (the prodrome) might be more likely to smoke marijuana to quell voices and disturbing thoughts. But further analyses of the Swedish study, and other observational studies, have found that marijuana use increases the risk of psychosis, even after adjusting for possible confounding factors.

Although cause and effect are hard to prove, evidence is accumulating that early or heavy marijuana use might not only trigger psychosis in people who are already vulnerable, but might also cause psychosis in some people who might not otherwise have developed it.

Certainly genetic profile mediates the effect of marijuana. People born with a variation of the gene COMT are more vulnerable to developing psychosis, for example. Because there is as yet no reliable way for clinicians to identify vulnerable young people in advance, however, it is safest to restrict use of medical marijuana to adults.
Other effects

A review of side effects caused by medical marijuana found that most were mild. When compared with controls, people who used medical marijuana were more likely to develop pneumonia and other respiratory problems, and experience vomiting, and diarrhea.

There's no question that recreational use of marijuana produces short-term problems with thinking, working memory, and executive function (the ability to focus and integrate different types of information). Although little research exists on medical marijuana, anecdotal reports indicate that some patients take the drug at night to avoid these types of problems.

The real debate is about whether long-term use of marijuana (either for medical or recreational purposes) produces persistent cognitive problems. Although early studies of recreational users reported such difficulties, the studies had key design problems. Typically they compared long-term marijuana smokers with people who had never used the drug, for example, without controlling for baseline characteristics (such as education or cognitive functioning) that might determine who continues to smoke the drug and who might be most at risk for thinking and memory problems later on.

Studies suggest that although overall cognitive ability remains intact, long-term use of marijuana may cause subtle but lasting impairments in executive function. There is no consensus, however, about whether this affects real-world functioning.



Pretty much what I have been saying.




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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

depending on the dose of the drug and inborn genetic vulnerability.
Bear in mind I never said OVERUSE of it was okay...in high doses, I have no doubt whatsoever it has deleterious effects. As well, they mention the genetic vulnerability. My argument all along is that in moderation, long-term use isn't as harmful as you state, nothing more.
Quote:

Observational studies suggest that one in nine people who smokes marijuana regularly becomes dependent on it
I would question the difference between "dependent" and "addicted"...I'm believe marijuana can cause PSYCHOLOGICAL dependency, for many reasons--not all having to do with the properties of the drug--but I've seen no scientific evidence that it is physically addictive.
Quote:

Studies report that about 20% to 30% of recreational users experience such problems after smoking marijuana. The people most vulnerable are those who have never used marijuana before.
I would suggest that some percentage of people using ANYTHING have negative effects. I have no doubt that is true of some people; I already mentioned my friend Choey as one of them.

I think the idea of marijuana causing bipolarity is absurd. Yes, it's long been a problem that anti-depressants without mood stabilizers causes bipolarity to MANIFEST, it's happened far too many times (including with me when I was initially dx'd depressive), sometimes with horrible effects, and once manifesting, bipolarity doesn't "go away". But believe me, I'm pretty well versed on that subject, being bipolar myself and rather a "bear" about self-education. Most scientists agree that bipolarity is an inherited genetic disorder, and even then we only inherent a prevalence for it to manifest. It usually takes something to cause it to manifest--in most case, some kind of trauma or abuse in childhood.

I certainly agree that it's stronger than back when I could buy the famous old "$10 lid"...that's one reason I smoke so little of it. I have never doubted that heavy use, especially in this day and age of stronger dope, is definitely a bad thing. Again, my argument has been that marijuana is less harmful than cigarettes or booze, and that neither I nor those I've known over long periods of time haven't experienced bad effects.

The study is also full of caveats like "Although cause and effect are hard to prove" and "some studies..." and the repeated mention of genetics. Given the much larger body of evidence which shows that it's not that dangerous, and that those studies have been going on for a long, long time, I tend to believe them more. Also, in the early days, all KINDS of propaganda was flying around attributing marijuana to hard drugs...if anyone remembers the old "warning" stuff like "Marijuana, Assassin of Youth"--I bought one of them off the internet, and it's hysterical to watch. Propaganda has always abounded where dope is concerned, and despite scientific studies opposing it, I believe there is still a lot invested in showing it to be more dangerous than it is.

I also note that, within the material you posted, I didn't notice any mention of aggression.

I repeat, in my opinion marijuana is less damaging than cigarettes or alcohol. That is my entire point on the matter: Not that it is harmless--virtually anything used to escape reality is. I think it's effects, since it was "outlawed", have been affected by government propaganda, among other things. How much of that continues to this day I cannot say; all I can go by are my own experience and observations. Given the effects of marijuana psychologically differ with each user, I don't doubt some have had negative experiences, in fact I know some have; to weigh that against it's positive effects others have experienced is beyond my expertise, and I don't think anything has been proven definitively either way. The negative aspects of overuse and long-term use of alcohol HAVE been conclusively proven and, again, my only point is that it is less harmful than that and cigarettes, both of which are consumed in huge quantities and overused to a dangerous degree.

This thread has wandered an amazing distance from the original topic, so I won't address this subject further.



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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:55 AM

OONJERAH



Quote MagonsDaughter: "Psychosis. Marijuana exacerbates psychotic symptoms and worsens outcomes in patients already
diagnosed with schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders. Several large observational studies also strongly suggest
that using marijuana — particularly in the early teenage years — can increase risk of developing psychosis."

I believe that. I don't have to experience it personally to see it, believe it.
I don't defend recreational drugs. I never do ... except caffeine, sugar, movies and perpetual computer use.



Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Enough on marijuana, I've said all I have to say and it's not relevant to the thread anyway.

So here comes my "mission" again. If interested, please note Alt.Univ.'s very first response to this thread:
Quote:

Harmless little joke that that MSM blew completely out of proportion.

Funny, no one held Obama to anywhere near the same standard w/ Rev Wright, who has yet to apologize for ANYTHING he said.

Classic Left wing bias, on parade.

"Harmless" joke, referring to something that has upset many, many people and wish was totally uncalled for. Comparison to Obama and complaint "nobody ever gets mad at HIM". Snark at the left. Nothing related to the subject of the thread. There it is again.



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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:38 AM

OONJERAH



Quote FremdFirma: "The primary issue is that they don't see women as HUMAN BEINGS.
To these sick bastards women are just convenient sextoys and baby factors for spawning more of them."

for spawning more of themselves. ?

Frem explained it, & I GOT it. Was pretty offended even before that.

Hmmm. Sex, sex movies, sex talk = recreational drugs. OT. Bad Oonj!


Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 1:01 PM

BYTEMITE


It's strange to hear any addiction ever being called not a physical addiction. It's an addiction because it plays with the brain's reward centers. It's always physical.

Quote:

The negative aspects of overuse and long-term use of alcohol HAVE been conclusively proven and, again, my only point is that it is less harmful than that and cigarettes, both of which are consumed in huge quantities and overused to a dangerous degree.


I think that there hasn't been enough data, partially due to the illegalization, to make a proper determination. But you can DUI with marijuana as much as you can with alcohol, both are mind altering substances (alcohol indirectly so as a sedative), therefore it is potentially at least as dangerous as alcohol.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:47 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I don't mind thread hijacks, as they usually mean that the original discussion has run out of steam.

But for the sake of politeness, I'll start another thread.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oonj, I agree wholeheartedly. Glad you got it! Will never cease to amaze me how the right can talk all day about "less government", yet defend to the death government forcing something as egregious as this!



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