REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

OccupyOakland pays the price

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 14:33
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Tuesday, October 25, 2011 3:15 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


At 4:30 this morning, Oakland police in riot gear attacked the sleeping protesters there and trashed everything, "evicted" or arrested protesters.



OccupyOakland consisted of some 200-300 protesters. Look at the number of riot-geared cops.

Oakland is the first place around here where there WOULD be problems. It's a huge city with a lot of homeless, unemployed, minority populations, and the Oakland police are infamous for their treatement of people. They are truly Frem's "brownshirts" and have been in trouble time and time again. Recently they shot a man to death who was by himself, on the ground, unmoving, in a BART station.

So it comes as no particular surprise they were hit like this. The mess you see isn't a mess LEFT by the protesters, it is the result of what the COPSO did. They totally trashed the place as they "evicted" the protesters. You can see them trashing it here, as well as the smoke of tear gas:





These were PEACEFUL protesters. Tear gas, rubber bullets, pepper spray. Yeah, that's the appropriate reaction.

I would love to see Raptor have to deal with Oakland PD. His opinion of "law and order" would be mightily disappointed.

Our group is mobilizing to help:
Quote:

Last night the Oakland police violently raided the Occupy Oakland Encampment. Strapped for battle in riot gear, the police forces attacked the unarmed and peaceful campers with tear gas, rubber bullets, and batons.

Some of our Occupiers from Marin who were helping at the Oakland camp were caught in the fury. MJ (who manned the food table at our last GA) was attacked by several officers with batons while he was trying to peaceably evacuate (as the police had commanded). Many people were gassed and shot with rubber bullets.

The police destroyed their tents and supplies, including the medical supplies, food donations, clothes and generators.

We are launching an outreach and mobilize a Call to Action called Operation: Unify (for Oakland). We are asking for support. Oakland needs more supplies. Oakland needs people to stand peaceably with them. Oakland needs our love and solidarity. Let's give it to them.

Oakland is having an Emergency Regroup meeting at the Library on 125 14th st.

Please come and stand with them if you can. Please send them supplies if you can. We have a number of people driving out to Oakland on a regular basis, so we can arrange to deliver your donations to the site for you.

I found out too late to help, as it's already after six and the meeting was 4-7. I'll send what I can tomorrow via our group's people going over there. But my heart certainly goes out to them; I admit, I wouldn't occupy over there--San Francisco, San Jose, Berserkeley, yes, but Oakland is downright DANGEROUS at the best of times. They've got balls!

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Tuesday, October 25, 2011 4:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

I would love to see Raptor have to deal with Oakland PD. His opinion of "law and order" would be mightily disappointed.


And under what circumstances would I have to 'deal' with them in the 1st place?

Let's see, were I to attend a TEA party rally, or some similar support for America event, maybe, but then I'd not be camping out in a public city park, using drinking fountains as my personal wash room, 'civilly' disobeying any number of laws, so there'd be no reason for any PD squad to come and evict me from where I wasn't suppose to be. I believe the last function of any thing like this I attended was a post 9-11 rally for America, held in Centennial park. It was a widely sponsored event, attended by 10's of thousands, and as I recall, everyone was in a pretty positive, unifying mood. Cops included.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:09 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Some police departments have issues with managing things peacefully. In my city the police have a bad reputation for shooting first and asking questions later. I think they're really trying to improve, but they still have a lonnnnnnnng way to go before I feel like they're safe and apropriate at their job. I always tell folk in crisis to call the county crisis line and ask for the CIT crew, I tell them not to call 911 because the police aren't the best option. Just knowing that there is a team that can come help that isn't the cops is comforting to families and those in crisis.

That sounds very unpleasant Niki, hopefully things will improve there.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:17 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


A victory for The Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo, too: they broke up the camp in Atlanta last night.

It would seem like, if a city was REALLY concerned abut health and sanitation issues, it would negotiate a way to provide services: " Look, folks, we gotta clean the toilets and dump the trash. Can we come thru at 10:00 AM to do that? Noon? 7:00 PM?" " Should we provide Porta-Potties and service them?" That's how public crowd situations like marathons are handled.

If a city was really concerned about crime and violence, they could station cops in the parks to HELP, not just to spy and oppress. The cities are already bitching about the over-time costs for cops and security, why not spend some of that O T money on protecting the protesters and PREVENTING crimes against them?

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:20 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
A victory for The Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo, too: they broke up the camp in Atlanta last night.

It would seem like, if a city was REALLY concerned abut health and sanitation issues, it would negotiate a way to provide services: " Look, folks, we gotta clean the toilets and dump the trash. Can we come thru at 10:00 AM to do that? Noon? 7:00 PM?" " Should we provide Porta-Potties and service them?" That's how public crowd situations like marathons are handled.

If a city was really concerned about crime and violence, they could station cops in the parks to HELP, not just to spy and oppress. The cities are already bitching about the over-time costs for cops and security, why not spend some of that O T money on protecting the protesters and PREVENTING crimes against them?



That would be the smart thing to do. What the police are doing now is just going to drum up more support for the protesters.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:41 AM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. I'm surprised we haven't heard AURaptor commenting on that yet, my understanding was he lives in Atlanta.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 5:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The more the occupy crowd runs into police like this, the more video and tweets will go out. The occupy crowd may not know exactly WHAT they're against, but having been tear-gassed, kettled, truncheoned, tasered, or hit with rubber bullets they will find out exactly who the corporate henchmen are.

This is a real street education.

BTW- the Oakland Police seem particularly repressive. There was an anti (Iraq) war demonstration on the docks and number of years ago, and the protesters (who were peaceful) were maced and beaten to the point where some had to be hospitalized.
Quote:

OPD Excessive Force Against Iraqi War Protestors and Innocent Bystanders

On April 7, 2003, demonstrators held a non-violent protest against the Iraq War at the Port of Oakland. Oakland police responded and dispersed the demonstrators by using so-called less than lethal firearms, running over demonstrators with motorcycles, and using other forms of excessive force. The OPD violence was not limited to the demonstrators as numerous longshoremen were either hit by gunfire or arrested. The OPD response was the most violent response to any protest against the Iraq war held in the United States.

Jim Chanin was an attorney on the legal team that filed a lawsuit against the City of Oakland. The case eventually settled for more than $2,000,000. The City of Oakland also agreed to a consent decree that dramatically changed the way the Oakland Police Department will respond to crowd control situations involving both political demonstrations and other gatherings.



http://jimchanin.com/civilrightscases

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 6:34 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
What the police are doing now is just going to drum up more support for the protesters.



Exactly - I don't get what the local govs are thinking (clearly not much), they're making it worse for themselves which is great for OWS. Thanks you!

I saw Chris Hedges (journalist) talk about the OWS movement on C-Rose the other night. He's a voice worth paying attention to imho.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 6:51 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Its a bit heavy-handed.

But, when you have a bunch of dirty hippie-libs located in one place... it soon becomes a cess-pool of filth, rats, firehazards, overdoses, rapes, theft, and violence.

When the Tea party protested, they came in, made their voices heard, picked up the place (the DC Mall was actually cleaner than when they arrived), and left to go home.

But of course, we have jobs and responsibilities.

Also, where are the people who so love to tell the rest of us that the police are better than a gun in defense of self?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 6:56 AM

BYTEMITE


Henchmen are obviously being identified by their tendency to administer beatings, but that might not mean that there aren't also henchmen on their own side. As ever, I advise anyone involved with the movement to look after themselves, and also know how to spot anyone dressed like a protester but wearing nicely polished beat shoes.

...Well, that answers one of my questions.

Be really careful out there guys.

Quote:

The City of Oakland also agreed to a consent decree that dramatically changed the way the Oakland Police Department will respond to crowd control situations involving both political demonstrations and other gatherings.


Looks like that may have been lip service.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 6:57 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
What the police are doing now is just going to drum up more support for the protesters.



Exactly - I don't get what the local govs are thinking (clearly not much), they're making it worse for themselves which is great for OWS. Thanks you!

I saw Chris Hedges (journalist) talk about the OWS movement on C-Rose the other night. He's a voice worth paying attention to imho.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com



I think this fits:

"I cannot teach you violence, as I do not myself believe in it. I can only teach you not to bow your heads before any one even at the cost of your life." ~Mahatma Gandhi


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:05 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
[B
Also, where are the people who so love to tell the rest of us that the police are better than a gun in defense of self?


Seems like the Atlanta cops used a report of a man with a gun as an excuse to run the protesters out of the park.

from CNN.com:
Quote:


(Atlanta Mayor)...
Reed told CNN affiliate WSB that concerns were increased when a man in the park was seen with an assault rifle. "We could not determine whether the weapon was loaded and could not get additional information on the weapon," he said.

Authorities ordered people to leave the park around midnight Tuesday, WSB said, going from tent to tent with flashlights.



So maybe somebody was constitutionally expressing his right to keep and bear arms, and the cops, without any further investigation or evidence, ran the protesters off. Were the cops protecting the Occupy folks from this armed person? Or was this person supposed to be an Occupier, so the cops dispersed them ALL without evidence? Was this alledged gunman real, or a phoney police report? Or a case of police over-reaction, like the time somebody reported an armed man on campus, and it turned out to be a member of the ROTC drill team with his ceremonial weapon, practicing?

Gestapo style cops looking for an excuse to disrupt the protest, if you ask me.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 7:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


NewOld, yes, that's the sensible way to deal with it. Who ever said government/bureaucracies were sensible?

Sig; yeah, as I mentioned, the Oakland PD is about on a par with the LAPD...as in, pretty damned bad. It's not quite so bad in SF, much better in San Jose, and of course we've had no problem here in Marin. I've actually had encounters with our police and most of them have been quite reasonable. We'll see what happens if we set up an encampment, that will test them for probably the first times since I have been here, at least.

Some people were caught up who were just walking by (not in the Oakland raid, but on Wall Street itself) and thrown to the ground and arrested. I realize people like Wulf and Raptor wouldn't be caught DEAD anywhere near a protest or anything like one--from what I've seen they don't believe in civil disobedience to begin with, and are far too big cowards to ever stand up against something they think is wrong (just puff out their chests and mutter about their guns and second-amendment right and revolution, which is to laugh). But it can happen to anyone; you're doing your own thing, round a corner and ooops, there's a demonstration and the police are going after them. Cameramen and innocent bystanders have been rounded up, including protesters who, when told to move, WERE moving away. That's my response to Raptor.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:25 AM

BYTEMITE


That "man with a gun" justification has been used before. Terry Norman comes to mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Norman

Again, be careful. You might not be able to tell police plants from OccupyPolice.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:35 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Some people were caught up who were just walking by (not in the Oakland raid, but on Wall Street itself) and thrown to the ground and arrested. I realize people like Wulf and Raptor wouldn't be caught DEAD anywhere near a protest or anything like one--from what I've seen they don't believe in civil disobedience to begin with, and are far too big cowards to ever stand up against something they think is wrong (just puff out their chests and mutter about their guns and second-amendment right and revolution, which is to laugh). But it can happen to anyone; you're doing your own thing, round a corner and ooops, there's a demonstration and the police are going after them. Cameramen and innocent bystanders have been rounded up, including protesters who, when told to move, WERE moving away. That's my response to Raptor."

Um, clown...? I've been to several Tea party protests. As well as several 2nd Amendment rallies...

Further, you buffoon, I have always supported the right of free-speech and to assemble. Whether its the Tea Party, the Communist Party, PETA, the Million Mom march etc.

I may disagree with some of the protests (Black Panther is a good example), but they, like any other American have the right to assemble peaceably and to have their voices heard.

I already said that this was heavy-handed. But Im curious... you, and folks like you, continue to tell us all that the government (especially a centralized unConstitutional government)is SUCH a GOOD thing.

Yet, now... its just "fuck the police". (While not a bad statement, or ideology... what I see when I hear libs say that is nothing more than "fuck you daddy!")

How you can eat when you obviously should be choking on your hypocrisy is beyond me.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:44 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:I already said that this was heavy-handed. But Im curious... you, and folks like you, continue to tell us all that the government (especially a centralized unConstitutional government)is SUCH a GOOD thing.

Yet, now... its just "fuck the police". (While not a bad statement, or ideology... what I see when I hear libs say that is nothing more than "fuck you daddy!")

How you can eat when you obviously should be choking on your hypocrisy is beyond me.



For one centralized federal government does not mean the police have to be heavy handed. They do not go hand in hand.

Second, it is not "fuck the police" for everyone. You see it is possible to disagree with some things the police, or any other agency, does but not disagree with the agency as a whole.

Third the federal government, which is centralized, is spelled out in the constitution.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:41 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
As ever, I advise anyone involved with the movement to look after themselves, and also know how to spot anyone dressed like a protester but wearing nicely polished beat shoes.


They never DO learn do they ?
Almost as bad as when they try to "infiltrate" a bunch of scrawny, geeky lookin college kids with a pair of beefy steroid-suckin drones, still wearing issue boots, who might as well have OBVIOUS COP stamped right on their goddamned foreheads.

That was SO obvious that I started lookin for the potential less-obvious infiltrators I figured they were fronting for... but nope, they really somehow thought no one would notice, or rather didn't care whether they did or not.

I mean, it's like they don't even TRY to fuckin hide it no more, and I find that more offensive than anything else, cause above all things...

I loathe incompetence.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Nick, I think this one fits even better.
Quote:

I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully.

The strength to kill is not essential for self-defence; one ought to have the strength to die. When a man is fully ready to die, he will not even desire to offer violence. Indeed, I may put it down as a self-evident proposition that the desire to kill is in inverse proportion to the desire to die. And history is replete with instances of men who, by dying with courage and compassion on their lips, converted the hearts of their violent opponents.

Nonviolence cannot be taught to a person who fears to die and has no power of resistance. A helpless mouse is not nonviolent because he is always eaten by pussy. He would gladly eat the murderess if he could, but he ever tries to flee from her. We do not call him a coward, because he is made by nature to behave no better than he does.

But a man who, when faced by danger, behaves like a mouse, is rightly called a coward. He harbors violence and hatred in his heart and would kill his enemy if he could without hurting himself. He is a stranger to nonviolence. All sermonizing on it will be lost on him. Bravery is foreign to his nature. Before he can understand nonviolence, he has to be taught to stand his ground and even suffer death, in the attempt to defend himself against the aggressor who bids fair to overwhelm him. To do otherwise would be to confirm his cowardice and take him further away from nonviolence.

Whilst I may not actually help anyone to retaliate, I must not let a coward seek shelter behind nonviolence so-called. Not knowing the stuff of which nonviolence is made, many have honestly believed that running away from danger every time was a virtue compared to offering resistance, especially when it was fraught with danger to one's life. As a teacher of nonviolence I must, so far as it is possible for me, guard against such an unmanly belief.

Self-defence....is the only honourable course where there is unreadiness for self-immolation.

Though violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission. The latter befits neither man nor woman. Under violence, there are many stages and varieties of bravery. Every man must judge this for himself. No other person can or has the right.


I am actually quite fond of Ghandi, him being in essence one of the founders of civil disobediance, but folks misunderstand his message sometimes (I don't think you do, but I just wanted to clarify it a bit) and many others have taken it out of context to essentially say lay-down-and-die-for-our-convenience...

But what he MEANT was try your best to avoid violence, offer the open hand, negoitate, resist non-violently if in any way at all possible...

But if the choice comes between knuckling under, or using violence ?
He'd rather you whup some ass than crawl away and meekly surrender - or at LEAST stand to until your death, that whole non-resistance thing taken to the extreme of knuckling under on command, rolling over in the face of violence or violent threat, that sends the wrong message, you see ?

In his own indomitable way, Ghandi was kind of a hardass, and I can respect that.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:04 AM

MAL4PREZ


Did you guys see the latest? A 24 year old Iraq vet was hospitalized after getting hit in the head by a gas canister in Oakland. Then a cop deliberately threw another canister at the people trying help him. From not more than 10 feet away. While standing behind a barricade, wearing full armor. Yeah, that's a real man.

If this doesn't make you angry, you're not alive.



The shit will be hitting the fan in 5 4 3 ...


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:16 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Oh, but by all means... lets give government even MORE power...

Lets have them strip away our natural-born rights of free speech, self-defense....

You cant have it both ways.

Either the government is OUR servant, or we are THEIRS.

If you chose the former, this means that you have to be able to hack it on your own. Without handouts. Without "free" healthcare, welfare, or anything else.

If you choose the latter.. you are nothing more than slaves.

You can't have it both ways.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 11:31 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Oh, then there is this...


http://mrctv.org/videos/occupy-san-diego-protesters-use-american-flag-
chew-toy-language-warning


"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:28 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Update: Just got back from demonstrating at the local JC. Some there had returned from Oakland...pretty ugly over there. Couple of our people had gone over just to work on the food and bring supplies, and they got caught up in it. Some are still in jail. Totally nonviolent protesters. After being kicked out of the park, they marched--everywhere they marched, they were met with a line of riot police and, before they could turn around, got gassed, beaten and hit with rubber bullets, pepper spray, etc. One time a bunch of them were standing still, having just encountered the police line when they rounded a corner. They were turning around to go back the way they came, when "someone" shoved a person forward, and the police went off like a skyrocket. Nobody saw who it was, but yeah, Frem, they pretty much know. Nobody else would do that; they KNEW they were in danger and were trying to approach the situation from peaceful means. Claire and another of our folk, who'd only gone over to drive others there, bring supplies and help cook, got caught up in it and said the cops were going after anyone taking video pretty heavily, knocking them to the ground, kicking the cameras (this is media, not personal cameras). Pretty much normal for Oakland PD.

Thing is, the mayor has been WITH them...they waited until she was out of town, and she couldn't get back fast enough, it all happened so fast. Good old OPD! Predictable, if nothing else! Her eyes were still red and swollen, she said the media guys were taken by surprise, one of them just dropped his camera and howled, trying to walk backwards while rubbing his eyes, not being able to see where he was going.

Yeah Mal...I didn't hear about that specific one, but it doesn't surprise me at all, from all I heard. I hope this angers everyone who sees it, and I hope the media gets the word out and lots of video, because as it stands now, it's being minimized and people don't know what actually happened. The protesters there had a med unit set up, were providing food to the homeless in the area, and were pretty well organized, until the police moved in, that is. They're still there standing up to them, but I have no expectation of it getting ANY better for the foreseeable future. I admire them, but I can't afford to get arrested and I don't move fast enough, so I daren't go over.

And yeah, Nick, each police department is different, and Oakland is infamous as hell. Actually, LAPD has cleaned up its act and isn't nearly as bad anymore, so I shouldn't have made the comparison. Oakland is one of the worst, possibly because they deal with a LOT of bad stuff, but what they've been doing now is unconscionable.

We got a good reception at College of Marin, but the cops were there, of course. They came over and talked to us and were very polite--wandered by in twos about three times in an hour. But they were nice, said as long as we didn't block any entrances or cause any problems, we were more than welcome to stay. Even asked about Oakland, and when she said she'd just gotten back, they asked how bad it was and shook their heads when she told them. They're not all bad...but of course there were only a few of us and we weren't camping out... Poor kid was sitting on a stone wall next to me when the cops came over, and she was polite and pleasant to them, but was left shaking like a leaf by the time they left. No surprise, after what she'd encountered yesterday and last night!

All I'll say to you, Wulf, is that there is NO comparison between Tea Party rallies and Second-Amendment rallies and ACTUAL civil disobedience. Obviously you have no concept of the difference, so there's no need to respond further. Except to ask--well, it's silly to do so since all you ever do is talk in slogans--but nonetheless: when did anyone here say "government (especially a centralized unConstitutional government)is SUCH a GOOD thing"? I don't recall hearing that; I recall people saying that there are some good THINGS about central government, but never saw anyone who was wholly in favor of what our government does. Beyond the fact, as Nick noted, the central government was INTENDED by the Founding Fathers, so it's the opposite of "unConstitutional". Might want to check your facts on that. Lastly, nobody's saying "fuck the police" (except maybe Frem ).

I've kind of been roped into "outreach" so I gotta go. I'm pooped, but need to make up flyers to put up around town, little handouts I can give people, more signs and a bunch of other stuff. It's what I can do; we're supposed to "engage" people--previously we just stood with signs by the freeway exit and people honked and waved. I'm no good at "engaging"--been a hermit too long and it never was my strong suit, so I'll do what I can with the talents I've got. We go back again tomorrow, then there's the Saturday demonstration and General Assembly, which will be ongoing for the foreseeable future. Onward...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:32 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Have fun.

I'm sure it will make a difference.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:32 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just saw Wulf's latest link...had to laugh. After all that's been happening and is still going on across the bay, to try and score points by the flag being used as a chew toy made me just HAVE to smile. What a comparison... Raptor and Wulf must have to dig very, very hard to find these things to put up; if there was some real bad shit, they'd have found it right off. But this? Truly pathetic.

Nonetheless, I'm SURE those horrible people should be gassed, flash-banged, shot with rubber bullets and maced for daring to do what they did, yes siree!

Gawd....


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. I'm surprised we haven't heard AURaptor commenting on that yet, my understanding was he lives in Atlanta.



Better late than never, I suppose. No such fireworks or ruckus here in ATL as there was in Oakland. The Occutards got off lucky, only having to post $100 bail to get out of day jail.

Of course, the door is now left open for TEA party rallies to freely hold their events , just as the Occutards did. If the city tries to make them fill out any permits, or pay any fees , then there's promises of lawsuits being filed. That, I find hi-larious. The sympathetic city govt got it wrong the first time, by allowing this nonsense to go on for so long, now they're going to have to reap what they sow.


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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:56 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Better late than never, I suppose. No such fireworks or ruckus here in ATL as there was in Oakland. The Occutards got off lucky, only having to post $100 bail to get out of day jail.

Of course, the door is now left open for TEA party rallies to freely hold their events , just as the Occutards did. If the city tries to make them fill out any permits, or pay any fees , then there's promises of lawsuits being filed. That, I find hi-larious. The sympathetic city govt got it wrong the first time, by allowing this nonsense to go on for so long, now they're going to have to reap what they sow.




Lawsuits based on what? You said yourself that people had been arrested. So I guess if the Tea Party want to also use civil disobedience they will also get arrested.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:22 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Nicki<

Shouldn't you be handing out pamphlets, walking your dogs, or something else as important?

"Nonetheless, I'm SURE those horrible people should be gassed, flash-banged, shot with rubber bullets and maced for daring to do what they did, yes siree!"

Um... YOU said that... not me.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Lawsuits based on what? You said yourself that people had been arrested. So I guess if the Tea Party want to also use civil disobedience they will also get arrested.



Not too bright, are ya ?

I'll draw it out for ya...

The occutards didn't apply for any permits to assemble, nor did they pay any of the applicable fees, associated WITH said permits. And on top of all that, they broke several laws, such as remaining in the park after closing hours, camping in the park, etc...

The TEA party functions, all have followed the rules, applied for the proper permits, paid the fees. They picked up after themselves, and didn't disrupt the local's neighborhoods or places of business.

As is the case in most cities, the mayor's office is sympathetic to the bulk of the protesters. ( union loving, community activist types ). Because of this, they let these protest continue, almost unabated. That is until the locals ( hard working, tax payer types ) started giving the mayor an earful.

The TEA party is planning some events in the near future. They'll be peaceful, positive, and won't overly tax the city's police or sanitation services. And, just like the occutards, the TEA party folks aren't going to apply or pay for any permits / fees.

Let's see if there's 'equal treatment under the law ', or will the hypocrisy of the Left raise it's ugly head ?

Stay tuned!




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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:40 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Did you guys see the latest? A 24 year old Iraq vet was hospitalized after getting hit in the head by a gas canister in Oakland. Then a cop deliberately threw another canister at the people trying help him. From not more than 10 feet away. While standing behind a barricade, wearing full armor. Yeah, that's a real man.

If this doesn't make you angry, you're not alive.



It makes me sad, disappointed, frustrated, but not angry.
Do any of you wonder why cops act this way? I know Frem and others have deep seated reasons why they believe so, but honestly sometimes they sound like they believe these people - yeah, they are people - are robots or are less than human.
Fine, so how'd they get there? If the care of children is so special, then why not these humans too? Can you see past the uniform or does it serve it's purpose too well?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA



This, Pizmo...

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/end-game-would-us-policetroops-fire-u
pon-us-citizens


This...

I'll expound as necessary when I have time.

-F

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:16 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Best coverage yet:



Their claim that people threw rocks and bottles is a flat-out LIE.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. I'm surprised we haven't heard AURaptor commenting on that yet, my understanding was he lives in Atlanta.



Better late than never, I suppose. No such fireworks or ruckus here in ATL as there was in Oakland. The Occutards got off lucky, only having to post $100 bail to get out of day jail.

Of course, the door is now left open for TEA party rallies to freely hold their events , just as the Occutards did. If the city tries to make them fill out any permits, or pay any fees , then there's promises of lawsuits being filed. That, I find hi-larious. The sympathetic city govt got it wrong the first time, by allowing this nonsense to go on for so long, now they're going to have to reap what they sow.



And you'll of course be right there to call them all a bunch of lazy hippie scum.

Right?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 3:13 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Shouldn't you be handing out pamphlets, walking your dogs, or something else as important?

"Nonetheless, I'm SURE those horrible people should be gassed, flash-banged, shot with rubber bullets and maced for daring to do what they did, yes siree!"

Um... YOU said that... not me.





No, what YOU said was this:

"But, when you have a bunch of dirty hippie-libs located in one place... it soon becomes a cess-pool of filth, rats, firehazards, overdoses, rapes, theft, and violence."

Yup, that's how you referred to a group which included a 24-year-old Iraqi War veteran who was shot in the head and is reportedly in critical condition.

And, of course, you can't provide a single legitimate cite for any of your claims of "filth, rats, fire hazards, overdoses, rapes, theft, and violence." The violence you're seeing is being carried out entirely by the police.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 5:02 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Mal 4 Prez and Niki, I'm sorry that all that went down in Oakland, it sounds really scary and I'm concerned for the warrior and for his family, to have him come back here and then to potentially have him die in this fashion would be horrible. I'm glad your associates who went down there are okay Niki.

As for the camps, the thing that bothers me is that the Occupy people are being given more of a break than the people downtown who actually are _homeless. The city won't let them camp anywhere for any length of time in a tent city fashion, yet in my city our protestors are still down there and have ruined a couple of parks. If the city can't be so generous with people who have nothing then why are they willing to with people who have homes of their own etc. I'll tell ya why, because homeless folk have no power whereas some of the Occupy protestors have some power and can fight back more than the homeless and downtrodden can.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 6:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WULF-how does supporting the government gassing, kettling, macing and beating people fit into your idea of the government being the servant of "the people"?

Am I missing something?

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Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Jackals: "Finally, we have a strong leader ready to put those malcontents in their places! Where do I sign up?"
Jackals are like Lemmings and Snakes: they eagerly collaborate with the villain because they think his campaign of terror and genocide are just causes. Whether it's out of hate, fanaticism, or ignorance, they prefer the villain's despotism to a more benevolent regime. Usually, they're harmless once the villain is dethroned: their prejudice comes out only when the bad guys are in power.


And the very fastest to whine when such is directed AT THEM, like the hypocritical slime they are.

In order words, typical modern day "conservatives".

And for those who DO purport to hold conservative values but feel slimed by the presence of these scum - face it, these scum are RUNNING YOUR PARTY, and if you don't LIKE that, then do something other than bitch at everyone who's fault it AIN'T.

Then go look in a fucking mirror.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

And you'll of course be right there to call them all a bunch of lazy hippie scum.

Right?




Umm, nope. Not even. You're even more confused than usual.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
WULF-how does supporting the government gassing, kettling, macing and beating people fit into your idea of the government being the servant of "the people"?

Am I missing something?




In WulfWorld™, this is not only okay, but preferable, because *those people* are "filthy liberals". How does he define "filthy liberals"? Easy: Anyone he enjoys seeing beaten and maced is a filthy liberal.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The Iraq vet wasn't shot in the head, he caught a tear-gas canister on her head. The cop threw a flash grenade at the people trying to help him.

Got a protest today again at the college--some of our people are still over there, because the Oakland group refuses to give up and is still marching, waiting an opportunity to take back the park. Up early to get the dogs out (6:30), so haven't heard any news today. But was surprised and gratified to see it made the national news last night...huzzah! Apparently it's the most violent response by police thus far in the demonstrations. WOULD be Oakland, dammit!

Gonna sulky the dogs over to the demonstration--one of our favorite paths runs right by it--then park them in the shade. Should help get us attention, to hand out flyers, etc. Need to build up the Saturday demonstrations, they're the most important.

Part of me wishes I was young and stupid enough to go over. I was there for People's Park in Berserkeley, and the talk of helicopters overhead all the time gave me shivers of memory. Back then it was the Nat. Guard that Reagan called in, and they were young, nice guys. These guys...different story.

By the way, yes, rocks and bottles WERE thrown at the police a couple of times, I found out. Still doesn't excuse police in complete riot gear, who a rock or a bottle wouldn't PHASE, hurling flash grenades and tear gas...and the police denied using rubber bullets, but some have been recovered from the street to show the lie. Hah!

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2011/10/26/pkg-simon-occupy-oaklan
d.cnn


No time for more...worked all afternoon on a couple of things, got a couple more ideas but I have to get the dogs out, then just time to change and make the demonstration, so only got this afternoon to work on stuff. Onward...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey Frem; I take that diss on snakes personally! ;o) Just 'cuz they get a bad rap doesn't mean they'd fall in with conservatives!

Riona, over in Oakland the protesters have been feeding and housing the homeless, AND giving them mdical attention--well, were as long as the camp remained. Just so's you know.

Also, Howard Jordan is INTERIM Chief...betcha he's gone pretty quick. Even for Oakland, this much publicity of their police acting out isn't what they want. And the bullshit about "denial of access of medical aid" he talks about is the POLICE denying EMTs, ambulances, etc., from entering the area. Rumor has it even those arrested are being denied medical aid, but you know about rumors...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, October 27, 2011 5:10 AM

BYTEMITE


Niki, they didn't just use rubber bullets at People's Park, they used BUCKSHOT from SHOTGUNS.

Some of the hippies, who were dirty because they'd been planting a garden, died.

Quote:

Alameda County Sheriff's deputies used shotguns to fire "00" buckshot at people sitting on the roof at the Telegraph Repertory Cinema, fatally wounding student James Rector and permanently blinding carpenter Alan Blanchard. The University of California Police Department (UCPD) claims Rector threw steel rebar down onto the police, however according to Time Magazine, Rector was a bystander, not a protester.[18] As the protesters retreated, the Alameda County Sheriff's deputies pursued them several blocks down Telegraph Avenue as far as Willard Junior High School at Derby Street, firing tear gas canisters and "00" buckshot into their backs as they fled.

(....)

The authorities initially claimed that only birdshot had been used as shotgun ammunition. When physicians provided "00" pellets removed from the wounded as evidence that buckshot had been used, Sheriff Frank Madigan of Alameda County justified the use of shotguns loaded with lethal buckshot by stating "... the choice was essentially this: to use shotguns — because we didn't have the available manpower — or retreat and abandon the City of Berkeley to the mob." Sheriff Madigan did admit, however, that some of his deputies (many of whom were Vietnam War veterans) had been overly aggressive in their pursuit of the protesters, "as though they were Viet Cong."



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Park#Conflict

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, back at People's Park it was uglier than today. Reagan brooked no opposition.
Quote:

Ronald Reagan launched his political career in 1966 by targeting UC Berkeley's student peace activists, professors, and, to a great extent, the University of California itself. In his successful campaign for governor of California, his first elective office, he attacked the Berkeley campus, cementing what would remain a turbulent relationship between Reagan and California's leading institution for public higher education.

"This was not a happy relationship between the governor and the university — you have to acknowledge it," recalled Neil Smelser, who was a Berkeley professor of sociology during the Reagan years. "As a matter of Reagan's honest convictions but also as a matter of politics, Reagan launched an assault on the university."

As the Vietnam War expanded and the death toll climbed, students at Berkeley launched a determined and, at times, confrontational attempt to stop the war with demonstrations and protests that eventually spread to college campuses across the country. Years later, much of the public came to agree with the students but in 1966, those opposed to the war were a distinct minority in America. Candidate Reagan capitalized on this. http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/06/08_reagan.shtml didn't much like higher education in general, and started the downturn of our excellent education system back then. It's been going downhill ever since. One of his famous quotes:
Quote:

"If there has to be a bloodbath then let's get it over with."
--Ronald Reagan (Governor of California), quoted in the San Francisco Chronicle, May 15, 1969. (Reagan reveals how he intends to deal with student protesters at the University of California, Berkeley.)






Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:48 AM

STORYMARK


A great comment from someone there:

“My part of Oakland is full of poor people. There’s at least one murder a week. Old creeps pimp out teenaged girls in broad daylight. You can buy crack or heroin 30 feet from my door, and two of my neighbors have been held up at gun point this summer. And the City of Oakland says they don’t have the police to stop any of that. But a bunch of people protesting the fact that rich people got a bail out and everyone else got nothing? The city shuts them down tight. Bang. Done. Riot act. Do you ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated? I do. Every day.”



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:59 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


I'd be wary of the interlopers - the one's that want to annex the attention and the ones that just want to eff with other people/cops and hide in the crowd - police aren't the only ones that can get high on confrontation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/us/oakland-and-other-cities-crack-do
wn-on-occupy-protests.html?pagewanted=2&partner=rss&emc=rss
#

"Protest organizers said many of the troublemakers in Oakland and elsewhere were not part of the Occupy movement, but rather were anarchists or others with simply with a taste for mayhem.

“The people throwing things at police and being violent are not part of our ‘99 Percent’ occupation,” said Momo Aleamotua, 19, a student from Oakland. “They’re not us, and they’re not welcome.”

Still, the scenes of tear gas in the streets and provocative graffiti — including one spray-painted message reading “Kill Pigs” in Oakland — have been seized on by some Republicans to try to make the protests a political liability for Democrats."

Seems police have been given new instructions to back off - good since it's unlikely that the true believers of OWS would try and cause trouble unless they were plants by any one of a number of groups that want to see the actions discredited or co-opted:

"Shortly after the end of that protest, however, hundreds of demonstrators began to wander down Broadway, Oakland’s central thoroughfare, in an unplanned march. The Oakland police, who had been noticeably absent during the protests at City Hall, began donning protective riot gear as demonstrators upped their rhetoric and tried to board Bay Area Rapid Transit trains. Several entrances to the BART system were closed, agitating protesters and adding to an increasingly tense atmosphere in Oakland, which had exploded in violence a mere 24 hours before.

The impromptu march continued west toward Oakland’s waterfront as it became more apparent that there was little central organizing structure.

About 10:25 p.m., a crowd of a thousand protesters arrived at Oakland’s police headquarters and began milling about. Some tried to put garbage cans in the street, while others beseeched the crowd to remain peaceful. The Oakland police manned the front door of their headquarters and maintained a loose perimeter.

At midnight, a much diminished crowd of perhaps 500 have marched back to Frank Ogawa Plaza, where violence broke out Tuesday night. Some were sitting in intersection but the police kept their distance."

Be careful!

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:33 AM

FREMDFIRMA


"Anarchists" my entire ass, check the shoes, people...

One of the things I do, although I have refused to do so currently for reasons it'd take too long to get into here, is perform the duty of something others call a protest marshall, and I call a cat-herder.

These are the folk who follow along and make sure no one goes off alone where the cops can drag em into an alley, beat them to death and then flake em with a throwdown gun, or another other bullshit like that - and also keep the goddamn police agents provacateur out of the group, which is maybe a little easier in my case than usual since I usually back up Augustus and his crew, and people don't realize the tiny little cracker bastard is *with* those big dark fellows, making it all too easy to catch these bastards out when they do try to slip in.

As for spray-painted inflammatory slogans, anyone else notice they appear suddenly BEHIND THE POLICE LINES and no one ever sees how they got there ?
That's so ludicrous it doesn't bear comment.

And this, this especially - IMHO, the very instant that police use buckshot on peaceful, or even rowdy but essentially unarmed protesters and bystanders (I don't mean rocks, bottles and debris, cause hell, anyone standing outside couldn't be considered unarmed in that respect) - then there is LEGAL RIGHT to salvo-fire real bullets in return.

Think about it, you're standing out in the open with a sign, or minding your own business, or reporting on a story, or just chillin - and some gangbanger starts shooting at you, what are your legal rights at that point in regards to shooting back ?
Then why the hell is it any different if the perpetrator of this CRIME is wearing a fucking badge - doesn't make em god, doesn't absolve them up the need to obey the law, and it sure as hell and damnation should *NOT* insulate them from consquence whatever, if YOU did that, it's attempted murder, when means when THEY do it, it's attempted murder.

Simple as that.

But no, go on, lay down and take it if you like...
And THAT, folks, is a big part of why I have refused to marshal for this one.

Comes a time when you gotta make a decision, fight back or knuckle under - sitting there on the fence accomplishes not a fuckin thing but painting a nice big bullseye on you, especially when they KNOW you ain't gonna do shit about their abuses, and whatever mild slap on the wrist consequences if any will come much much later in a supposed "justice" system which they practically friggin OWN, and the "fines" will not be assessed against THEM, but out of the general fund, so in essence feeding your own stolen money right back to you while they skip away laughing to do it again, and again, and again...

But no, go on, keep playing a fools game with a marked deck at the sharpers table by his house rules, sure.

And as long as they keep doin that, I will NOT support them, sorry.

-Frem
P.S. - If the anarchists, leastways the ones I work with, ever *did* aggress upon the boys in blue, there would be NO doubt whatever about it.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:34 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


I guess that's one place we're different then - I wouldn't be surprised by bad behavior on either side of this movement. They may not be real followers or Anarchist as you are, or even know what the word means, but there are plenty of people that would love to take a swipe at cops from the distance and safety of a crowd, and hang the "stupid movement" if their actions screw it up. I see that all the time - some selfish knuckleheads just can't help themselves.

"Simple as that."

I don't think it's that simple for the reasons you mentioned - they practically own the system. Sue the shit out of them and the city but don't ever shoot back. Violence is the worst option. They would love it if some protestor shot at them - that would jeopardize the entire movement just as the cops' violence gave it momentum.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
A victory for The Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo, too: they broke up the camp in Atlanta last night.




So, when the NYC cops are killed in the 9/11 attacks, they're heroes. When VP Biden wants to hire thousands of cops, albeit for 1 year or so, to help stop rapes and murders, by golly, they're GREAT defenders of the community.

But when they're called to rid public property of those who are breaking the law, and refuse to leave, they're suddenly 'Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo' ??

Please, try to bridge that gap you've dug for yourself. I'll wait.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:57 AM

STORYMARK


It's action dependent, moron. They do things heroic - they're called heroes. They behave like the Gestapo, they get called as such. It's a simple concept, which of course flies over your head.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
It's action dependent, moron. They do things heroic - they're called heroes. They behave like the Gestapo, they get called as such. It's a simple concept, which of course flies over your head.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



Ha ha... what's over YOUR head is that these officers in uniform are THE SAME GUYS! The ones Biden is praising and the ones you're calling 'Gestapo'. Seems to me, you on the Left only see them as props, to be held up and praised when your VP wants more govt spending, but then to be spit on and vilified, when they break up your precious , unlawful hippie love in.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you, Pizmo...you spoke very concisely for me. I'd have rambled on forever, trying to make my point, and you made it perfectly.

Oh, lord, then I caught the next ones: They're the same guys...omigawd, I can't stop laughing!!! To compare Oakland PD with the 9/11 responders...oh wait. I was going to say "How ignorant can he GET?!?!" but I forgot; it's Raptor. He knows nothing, he sees nothing...(how many are old enough to know where that comes from?)

WHY you people respond to him is so far beyond me...IT'S A GAME, PEOPLE; he's totally and completely predictable, and he gets you every time! You must just LOVE wasting your time and enjoy giving him the attention he craves, that's the only conceivable explanation I can come up with.


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