REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

I am proud NOT to be an American!!

POSTED BY: ALPS2007
UPDATED: Friday, March 21, 2014 22:49
SHORT URL:
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Monday, October 17, 2011 12:03 PM

ALPS2007


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15288865


This article explains it all. I'm shocked by what it says and of course it is never in any American News.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 12:17 PM

KIRKULES


You think that's bad, we actually have places you can take your kids and have doctors kill them for you.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 12:56 PM

BYTEMITE


Not in American news?

While in some cases that's true (you might talk to Frem about that), there's a lot here actually that gets reported on our local news (which you'd never see), but not the national news.

And there have been cases that HAVE been reported in the national news, such as

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Anthony
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_%28feral_child%29

and this one, which wasn't by her own parents but still pretty awful and abusive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaycee_Dugard

And so on.

For an example of child abuse in other countries beside America, perhaps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvarez_case Columbia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case Austria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linz_sisters Austria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Gouardo France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_incest_case Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongelli_case Turkey


And, of course, Britain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheffield_incest_case

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Monday, October 17, 2011 12:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
You think that's bad, we actually have places you can take your kids and have doctors kill them for you.



Thanks to an Executive Order issued by Rick Perry, you not only CAN do so, you MUST do so, at least if that child is female.

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Monday, October 17, 2011 3:19 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Unfortunately child abuse exists everywhere in the world, some places it may be more common or blatent than others, but it happens everywhere under the sun in every socioeconomic background.

We always see abuse situations on our local news.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ouch. Yes, we do see individual stories of child abuse, but they tend to be dramatic ones, and I've never seen facts and figures like those you posted. It's embarrassing...and disgusting.

It's been an eye-opener in more ways than on to be on the internet. Over time I learned things from friends in Canada, England and around the world which never make our news. It always reminds me that censorship is alive and well, in many different forms, everywhere, and America is no exception.

We hear all about children being sold, sex-slave traffic, etc., but never overall numbers like these to make people aware of what a serious problem these things are in our own country. Thank you. I think.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by alps2007:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15288865


This article explains it all. I'm shocked by what it says and of course it is never in any American News.



Yeah, this stuff only occurs here in the US, and no where else.



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:34 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:56 AM

BYTEMITE


I know child abuse is a serious problem in America, I was just slightly bugged by the self-righteousness. Self-righteousness solves no problems, only overlooks them.

And by saying that they're proud to not be an American, it's like saying all Americans are guilty of this. Poorly parsed. Had to call them out on that.

I'd say there are plenty of reasons to be proud not to be an American that don't involve calling all Americans child abusers - reasons that apply to a higher percentage of the population that Americans in general ARE actually guilty of.

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Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Did someone say all Americans are child abusers? I must have missed that.

To compare us to other countries is fallacious when it comes to things like this. Aren't we supposed to be the "greatest country in the world"? If so, why would our statistics be so terrible on this point? Comparison just says "we're no better than they are, in fact we're worse". We abhor the treatment of women in a lot of the Muslim world, so why shouldn't we simply abhor this in our country? Self-righteousness aside, facts are facts.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:57 AM

BYTEMITE


There's a big difference between saying "holy cats, did you guys know about this problem you have over there" and saying "holy cats, wouldn't want to be one of you!"

One of those is meaning to inform and concerned/sympathetic, the other is "I'm better than you." One of those implies a desire to help with the problem, the other is satisfaction and schadenfreude. And one of those is just saying there's a problem, while the other suggests everyone in the target population is either guilty or a victim of it.

Thread title was leaning more towards the later in all cases.

So, I called them on it. Remember, I'm not a particularly loyal or patriotic American myself. I wasn't offended by them thinking their country is better than ours.

I was offended by how they seemed to be proud of their country's level of child abuse (Seriously, what the hell?) and the Unfortunate Implications. I mean, if they're proud NOT to be an American, shouldn't they also not be proud of being British, or Australian, or whatever, since it also happens there?

We all have problems, serious social problems don't get better by people demonizing an entire population (in the case of Muslims), or using those problems to fuel their own smug sense of superiority. We can abhor our own problems without using other people's problems to feel better about ourselves.

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Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


While I agree with the "proud NOT to be", I didn't see it that way. And I think it's a very valid statement for a country which touts itself as the "best in the world". We aren't--by FAR--so I understand the sentiment.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:14 AM

BYTEMITE


Understood, but Niki, you are missing the Unfortunate Implications. It's not ABOUT America. It's about the way a lot of societies treat children.

Of course we're not the "best," no country is. But that's entirely irrelevant. It's ridiculous to compare the child abuse rates in two countries and say "I'm proud of my country for it's child abuse rate relative to the child abuse rates of other countries."

Quite simply any rate of child abuse is NOT something to be proud of.

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Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I getcha. I think I just take it less personally is all. It's something that should be brought to the attention of everyone and that's all I saw it as. There are many things about America which make me less than proud, and when I hear we're "the greatest" it makes me cringe. I have no problem with us being taken down a peg or two and being reminded that SOME of the things "we're number one" at show we're NOT necessarily the greatest.

Having traveled, one of the things I found most unpleasant was that Americans are so loudly proudful (or they were back then anyway) and condescending. Maybe if we knew all the facts, we'd be less chest-puffing prideful and look to CHANGING this sort of thing. Chest puffing isn't irrelevant; it shapes how the rest of the world views us.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:42 AM

BYTEMITE


Well sure. Self-righteous Americans annoy me too, for the same reasons.

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Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:58 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I think that at least a bit of pride in one's country of origin or choice is normal and good. I'm probably more patriotic than a decent chunk of board members here, but I think other people should think their countries are special too, being proud of where one comes from and all that. The title didn't really gel well with the topic, seems like a seperate issue. A more sensible title would have been something like "Tar-Rutting-Nation, you guys have really high abuse stats.". Oh well, he can call threads whatever he wants and I hope he is at least somewhat proud of where ever he comes from.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, October 21, 2011 8:02 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh bloody hell, I was goin from the bottom up and didn't see this - commented already but yeah, there were some of our facts and figures used for that, some stuff from Jordan Riak too as I recall...

And yeah, it's that bad, hell it's even worse, mostly cause our fucking sociopathic society and what it does to human beings in the process of supposedly-socializing them, grrr.

You forgot Madeline McCann too - but then everyone did, we were supposed to, since some folk know damn well what happened to her but it was politically inconvenient to investigate and so NCMEC flagged the case as /null and she was "dissappeared" from the media consciousness as effectively as she was disappeared from the earth - but not all justice is meted out in courtrooms, people...
Not all flowers that bloom in the dark are poisonous, either.


And yes, Oldenglanddry - the Philly thing.

I got into a HUGE furniture throwing argument with Justin over this - he thought that we should step forward cause they're basically adult "Closet Kids" and we have a damn lot of experience, more than I would have ever wanted, treating what I refer to as closet-kid-syndrome...
I disagreed, they're adults, adults HAVE advocates, they HAVE rights, they don't *NEED* our extremely limited resources and legal chicanery and protections the way children do.

Sure, you could make a case either way but buddas budding breasts, we got enough on our plate already dealing with the crap which everyone wishes wouldn't exist to the point of outright denial even when face to face with it, and frankly, this one DID make the news cause it was adults...

Believe me, HUNDREDS of cases JUST LIKE THIS in the Foster Care System... do not.
So, sorry, that one AIN'T OUR BALL to field, and we got into it, furniture was thrown, words were exchanged, and someone ELSE is gonna have to deal with that one, cause *wanting* to, and being *able* to, assist - they're different damn things.
And yeah verily maybe I am still a little pissed about it since he's my successor and in charge and having to come storming in to gainsay a bad decision makes me question the wisdom of nominating him such, maybe he's not ruthless enough, or maybe I am too ruthless, who can say.


Also worthy of rememberence..
Only two countries on the planet have not signed the UN Convention on the Rights of Children.
One is Somalia.
The other is the United States.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, October 23, 2011 8:10 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Frem, would you please explain the "Philly" thing to me when you write back to my most recent letter? And you can tell me what you believe happened to Madelyn McCann too if you please.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, October 24, 2011 4:50 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Riona, the "Philly Thing" was that a bunch of mentally-disabled adults were kept in closet-kid conditions.

Quote:

Shocking pictures have emerged of the squalid and filthy conditions in which four mentally disabled people were apparently forced to live after being locked up in a basement.

One of the victims was found chained to a radiator and there was just a bucket for the group to urinate in, said police in Philadelphia, who compared the small boiler room to a "dungeon".
The 10ft by 15ft space contained a mattress with some bedding and a flat board with a pillow. There were a couple of water bottles but no food, officers added.

The four victims, three men and a woman aged between 29 and 41, were found on Saturday by the building's landlord, who said tenants had complained of suspicious people entering and leaving the building.

Turgut Gozleveli heard dogs barking when he was in the basement, where he kept his tools, and found a chain on a door to another room.

The 71-year-old shined a torch behind the door and discovered the four people and also three dogs.

He said: "I asked them what they are doing here, and how they got in. There was no communication. I asked questions and I didn't get any answers."

He said he freed the chained man and then called the police. "He was just watching me when I cut the chain."

The area was too small for an adult to stand up straight and reeked of human waste from the bucket the victims used to relieve themselves, according to officers.

All four are said to have the mental capacity of 10-year-olds, making it difficult for authorities to identify them and notify their families.

Malnourished, they have been taken to a shelter where they are receiving counselling and care.

Three people have been accused of locking them up so they could receive their disability benefits.

One of the trio, the suspected ringleader and convicted murderer Linda Weston, is alleged to have pretended to be the victims' carer in order to carry out the claimed fraud.

She may have also victimised dozens of other people, police said, as she had ID records for up to 50 people, including power of attorney paper work, and social security numbers, when she was arrested.

Weston's son and daughter lived in the building where the four were found. The pair have been co-operating with police and have not been charged.

The three defendants have been charged with kidnapping, aggravated assault, false imprisonment and other related offences. Bail was set at \$2.5m (£1.6m) but none of them posted it.

Weston, 50, will appear in court on Thursday. She was helped by homeless man Eddie Wright, 51, and 48-year-old Philadelphia resident Gregory Thomas, police said.

Sergeant Joseph Green said Weston may have others in captivity but she was not co-operating with the investigation.

At least two of the four victims in Philadelphia had travelled with Weston as she moved from city to city in Texas and Florida, Sgt Green said.

The other two had been with Weston since February and all of them arrived in Philadelphia earlier this month, he added.

Three of the alleged victims, who have been named as Tamara Breeden, Derwin McLemire and Herbert Knowles, said they were abused by Weston and two others while in her care for the last year.

Breeden said she was hit on her head and showed KYW-TV where she said her teeth were knocked out.

McLemire claimed he met Weston through an online dating service and tried to escape but did not get away "so they got" him.

Knowles, who had been found shackled to the boiler, said he was hit by one of the two arrested men.

Breeden had apparently been reported missing in 2005, but the case closed by police even though she had not been found.


And as mentioned, them being adults and having proper resources and advocates, they didn't need us the way kids who have none of those things do, resulting in a furniture chucking argument in the office - which I didn't "win" cause I was meaner, but because I was correct.

As for Maddie, she didn't survive the attempted snatch, the grab for hire went wrong, Bernard Alapetite and Urs Hans von Aesch bungled it and killed her - there are certain tells left behind when a person dies which were present at the scene but originally covered up or ignored by complicit members of local law enforcement in order to deflect suspicion onto the parents long enough to make a clean sweep of it, but those tells don't even really go away...
Not that it would have made any difference in the end given what also happened to Ylenia Lenhard at the hands of these cretins, same van at scene and if you compare the composite sketches of the persons sighted at the scenes of both crimes, it's pretty damn clear these two are responsible - but no more likely to be prosecuted than Nihoul or any of the other kingpins and high rollers of the european predator scene are.
It's also worth noting that the victims in both cases were also all but identical, which is typical of snatch for hire, when a specific "order" needs to be filled.

Credit for that investigation goes to the House of Croy, who primarily carried it out despite substantial resistance from the press and local authorities.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, October 24, 2011 2:13 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Oh my rutting goodness. That pisses me the rut off. It sounds like she had two of them for only a while but that the others were with her longer. I understand where your colleague is coming from, but I guess one organization can't do it all and I should hope that there are things closer to their location, someone who can take them into their household and look after them etc. They better get lots of loving care now that's all I have to say. That is awful. And I don't like the idea of the dogs being put in there with them in that cramped space at all. Of course I don't like the whole thing at all but you know what I mean. When did this happen? Because I never saw it on the national news.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, October 25, 2011 10:58 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
When did this happen? Because I never saw it on the national news.


Last week, and the victims are being properly taken care of - there's resources for that both at the State and Federal level which while maybe not perfect, are effective enough cause it's adults being dealt with and whatnot...

What bothers me more, is that this exact kind of thing is EXTREMELY COMMON in the Foster Care System and no one seems to care cause of the legal status of children as sub-human - doesn't make the news, they have few if any reliable resources and access to them is a problem cause usually whomever has official possession (i.e. "custody) is more interested in covering asses than getting the kid help.

Which is where the legal arm of folks like us come in, via Guardian Ad Litem, Advocacy, or other legal means I know little about since the legal end of it is so full of doubletalk and legalese that even trying to understand it gets drowned out in all my mental bullshit detectors going off at full power all at once - remember, the FLDS initially had to demand their kids back under a legal provision intended to enforce the return of LIVESTOCK - that's how few rights are involved here.

Anyhows, any involvement on our behalf would have been not only redundant, it would have raised hackles when turf issues and non-official resources versus official resources issues came up, folk can be nasty if they feel they're being stepped on by someone without official sanction and that's a headache we have often enough not to wish adding to it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:22 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I just can't imagine doing that to children or adults, both are equally horrid and neither is okay. There are a lot of really mean people in this world.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA



On indeed, case in point, and only unusual in that it made the news at all...

http://news.yahoo.com/police-2-nebraska-boys-kept-wire-dog-kennel-2120
25610.html

Quote:

NORTH PLATTE, Neb. (AP) — Four children were removed from what authorities described as a filthy Nebraska trailer home where a 3-year-old boy and his 5-year-old brother were kept in a wire dog kennel, police said Tuesday.

North Platte officers went to the home late Monday after receiving a call from someone asking that police check on the welfare of the children living there, police Lt. Rich Hoaglund said. When officers went inside, they were met with the stench of urine and found trash and animal feces throughout the home, Hoaglund said.

An officer soon found two boys, ages 3 and 5, in a 30-by-42-inch wire dog kennel.

"They had a small child's mattress in there, and that's where both kids were sleeping," Hoaglund said. "The gate on that door was wired shut."

The children's mother, 22-year-old Ashly Clark, told officers she put her boys in the kennel at night to keep them from climbing out of the trailer through a window, Hoaglund said.

A couple — 25-year-old Bryson Eyten and 24-year-old Samantha Eyten — also lived in the trailer with their 8-year-old and 8-month-old children. Hoaglund said those children were not kept in the kennel.

Hoaglund said that while the children were living in filthy conditions, there was no evidence to suggest they had been physically abused or were malnourished.

Clark, the Eytens and 20-year-old Lacy Beyer, who police said also lived in the trailer, were arrested Monday night and charged Tuesday with two counts of first-degree false imprisonment, two counts of felony child abuse and misdemeanor child abuse, based on the condition of the house. The children have been placed with state authorities.

"All of the adults were aware of the situation and were aware of the kids were being housed in the animal kennel and did nothing to stop it or report it," he said.

All four made initial appearances in court Tuesday afternoon, and bail was set at $50,000 for each.

Lincoln County Attorney Rebecca Harling said each of the four asked for a public defender during the court hearing Tuesday.

"They were ordered to have no contact with the four children taken into custody," Harling said.


Note the emphasized portion in which it's pretty damn obvious a lesser standard is applied in the case of children.

I'm tellin ya, HUNDREDS of these, perhaps more, every single day in the Foster Care System.
Here, in America.

As I say - Yurusenai!

Damn well I mean to do somethin about it, at the very least get the ball rolling so someone else can finish the job like I did to WWASPS for the previous Fremdfirma.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 21, 2014 10:49 PM

OONJERAH


David Cameron vows to speak to Portuguese government if British
cops are hampered with their Madeleine McCann inquiry

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-missing-david-ca
meron-3265699


"Scotland Yard detectives have expressed their frustration at the
speed of the Portuguese legal system as they attempt to discover
what has happened to the missing youngster.

"Speaking today, the Prime Minister's official spokesman said Mr
Cameron would be prepared to "make further representations" to
the government in Portugal if it would help Scotland Yard's inquiry.
...
"Yesterday Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood revealed that
the force are looking for a lone intruder who sexually abused five
British girls during a series of break-ins in the Algarve, Portugal.

"The tanned, dark-haired man is suspected of breaking in to 12
properties where British families were staying in the Algarve, Port
-ugal, between 2004 and 2010.

"In four of the incidents, a total of five girls aged between seven &
10 were sexually assaulted. These attacks happened between 2004
and 2006, before Madeleine vanished in 2007.

"Mr Redwood said: "I'm sure the public will understand that the
significant features of this offending - a man with a vile interest
in young, white, female children, who he is attacking in their
beds while they are on holiday with their families - has got a
very close resonance to some of the features of Madeleine's
disappearance."



====================== :>
This thread is depressing -- a depressing reality, so I'm not going to
bump it. But every few months, if I see an update on Madeline McCann,
I report it.

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