REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

More details on the Bin Laden raid

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Thursday, May 12, 2011 12:37
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1815
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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 1:33 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Obama wanted enough troops to fight its way out, and other facts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13343497

Another interesting point:

Quote:

Two specialist teams were on standby, probably on the aircraft carrier Carl Vinson in the Arabian Sea: one to bury Bin Laden if he was killed, and a second team of lawyers, interrogators and translators if he was taken alive


Maybe there was a chance of them taking OBL alive after all?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 1:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I think it's a poor decision to release so much detail and info on this mission.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 1:46 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Why? What specific concerns do you have?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


He's afraid it will come out that torture didn't gain us any useful intel.

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:09 AM

DREAMTROVE



Nah, he's afraid that it will spill that Bin Laden was already dead.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
He's afraid it will come out that torture didn't gain us any useful intel.



No, asshole, I don't want anyone knowing some of the specifics of how we ran the operation. There's no reason why we should be releasing this stuff, to placate the media. It serves no purpose to tell al Qaeda and the rest of the world any of this stuff.

It's idiotic and naive.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:12 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Why? What specific concerns do you have?

The obvious ones. If the raid collected names, telephone numbers, and other personal information about terrorists, which it did, the President of the United States should not be making a worldwide announcement of that fact. The terrorists might immediately change their addresses and phone numbers. That would be unfortunate if the President had intended to make surprise phone calls to terrorists at their dinner time to ask for donations to worthy charitable causes.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Why? What specific concerns do you have?

The obvious ones. If the raid collected names, telephone numbers, and other personal information about terrorists, which it did, the President of the United States should not be making a worldwide announcement of that fact.



Oh, the morons at the WH blew that one right off the bat, by telling everyone who'd listen that we recovered a library of intel on al-Qaeda.

Brilliant.



Why not just announce to the next on the list the time and date they can be expecting us, how many will be on the operation, by what means, the weapons being used..... good grief.

Community activism gone amok.





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 3:32 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Why? What specific concerns do you have?

The obvious ones. If the raid collected names, telephone numbers, and other personal information about terrorists, which it did, the President of the United States should not be making a worldwide announcement of that fact. The terrorists might immediately change their addresses and phone numbers. That would be unfortunate if the President had intended to make surprise phone calls to terrorists at their dinner time to ask for donations to worthy charitable causes.




Best. Prank call. EVER.

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Originally posted by two:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Why? What specific concerns do you have?

The obvious ones. If the raid collected names, telephone numbers, and other personal information about terrorists, which it did, the President of the United States should not be making a worldwide announcement of that fact. The terrorists might immediately change their addresses and phone numbers. That would be unfortunate if the President had intended to make surprise phone calls to terrorists at their dinner time to ask for donations to worthy charitable causes.




Best. Prank call. EVER.



They're politicians - if they call you, it's to ask for money!



By the way, my bet is that the announcement of the troves (not you, DT! ) of info they got is intended to send al-Qaeda operatives running for cover, thereby revealing the whereabouts of a goodly number of them.

Rappy, I don't think "a muck" means what you think it means. But congrats on jumping right into the name-calling, thereby showing us all how "mature" and "adult" you are. We never tire of hearing about your supremacy.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:07 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER



run amok?

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 11:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Rappy, I don't think "a muck" means what you think it means. But congrats on jumping right into the name-calling, thereby showing us all how "mature" and "adult" you are. We never tire of hearing about your supremacy.



You can't debate the issues, so you resort to your usual antics.

I wasn't "name calling" anyone, btw. I'm describing the idiocy shown by this White House on giving out too much. Stupid is as stupid does.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Rappy, I don't think "a muck" means what you think it means. But congrats on jumping right into the name-calling, thereby showing us all how "mature" and "adult" you are. We never tire of hearing about your supremacy.



You can't debate the issues, so you resort to your usual antics.

I wasn't "name calling" anyone, btw. I'm describing the idiocy shown by this White House on giving out too much. Stupid is as stupid does.




Here's you *NOT* "name-calling anyone", btw:

Quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
He's afraid it will come out that torture didn't gain us any useful intel.



No, asshole, I don't want anyone knowing some of the specifics of how we ran the operation. There's no reason why we should be releasing this stuff, to placate the media. It serves no purpose to tell al Qaeda and the rest of the world any of this stuff.

It's idiotic and naive.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "





By the way, I am perfectly willing to debate the issue, *IF* it really is an issue. I posted above why I thought they released details and information. You obviously have no response to that, though, and are completely unwilling and unable to debate the issue. ;)

If you ever said "Support the Troops!", you are a socialist. You've taken money from me, by force and at gunpoint, and you've given it to people who are on a mission I don't support, and are murdering others in my name, and I am given no choice in the matter.

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 12:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

run amok?




Rappy seems to think that means running into the mud, i.e. "run a muck".


And, like most of his GOP-bagger brethren, he can't decide if he wants the President to release MORE information, or LESS information. "SHOW US THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE! WHY WON'T YOU SHOW IT?! WHAT TOOK SO LONG?!" And now, "QUIT TELLING US SO MUCH! WHY ARE YOU GIVING OUT INFORMATION?! YOU SAID YOU WANTED TRANSPARENCY! HOW DARE YOU TRY TO DO ANYTHING TRANSPARENT!"

The only thing President Obama needs to do to piss of the idiotic right is to get up in the morning.

Glenn Beck claimed that Obama going to Ground Zero to mark the death of Bin Laden was "obscene" and "grotesque". Meanwhile, Condi Rice, on Fox News, said that Dubya Bush literally standing on the remains of nearly 3000 dead Americans - STANDING ON THE RUBBLE PILE WHERE THEIR CRUSHED BODIES WERE INTERRED - was "the most important moment maybe in American history".


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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:12 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Huzzah for the SEALS. that's all I have to say here.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Huzzah for the SEALS. that's all I have to say here.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya




Do y'all imagine that the SEAL teams just go around autonomously, offing people of their own accord, without any intel from other sources or teams, without orders from superiors, without accountability to anyone or anything? Is that really how you imagine SEAL teams work?

These guys did a great job - once they were given the information and the orders to do so, of course. And those orders came from the President.

Y'all want to rush to give the SEALs all the credit for the success. So do you blame the pilots for the aborted failed mission to rescue American hostages in Iran under Carter, or do you lay the responsibility for that one on the President who ordered the mission to move forward?

And who do you credit with the capture of Saddam?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:44 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Obviously the president gave them the go ahead, but the SEALS are the ones who went and did it. Everyone on TV is giving the president credit, so he has some, I always think the SEALS need more credit. But that's just me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:59 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Pakis did the raid on the CIA safe house, that may have housed OBL's widows who remarried his brother 10 years ago when OBL died of kidney failure in a US hospital.

SEALS didn't decide to begin a "raid" until the Pakis joked that one prisoner "looked a little like OBL". SEALS crashed one chopper during a normal landing, took custody of an unarmed prisoner from the Pakis, then executed him, threw him off a ship, then claimed it was OBL with zero proof from photos, video, fingerprints nor DNA from immediate family. Certainly no trial allowed.

This week Capt Texe Marrs PhD demaned the immediate arrest, trial, conviction and execution of Bush and Cheney for murder of POWs, same goes for Obama Bin Laden and all the jewish neocons, since that's the only way to stop World War 3.
www.texemarrs.com

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Only you would equate the President's birth certificate to top secret info gleaned from a covert ops to kill bin Laden.

You see Kwickie, two different issues call for different responses. Is that too much for you to handle ?

Seems so.



Quote:

The only thing President Obama needs to do to piss of the idiotic right is to get up in the morning.


piss OF ? Were you trying to say ' piss off ' ?

ROFLOL !!!!!!


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

The only thing President Obama needs to do to piss of the idiotic right is to get up in the morning.


piss OF ? Were you trying to say ' piss off ' ?

ROFLOL !!!!!!




Yes, it would seem so. Or, as you would say,

"You can't debate the issues, so you resort to your usual antics."

Note your refusal to respond to the issues, as always.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 3:50 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Fed Govt excited that burying Obama Bin Laden evidence at sea can work to bury other evidence at sea, such as OK City controlled demolition bombing videotapes and videos of no Muslims boarding any hijacked airliners on 9/11:



Navy SEAL Governor Jesse Ventura don't buy the Obama Bin Laden Hoax, says Osama was buried within 24 hours as required by Jewish Law since Osama was Jewish and his mother is a Jew living in Israel:
http://www.infowars.com/jesse-ventura-questions-official-bin-laden-sto
ry
/










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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 4:03 AM

BYTEMITE


Ohhhh, is THAT where they got the DNA confirmation? From purported relatives of OBL living in the US?

In that case it starts to make some sense, though there's still a problem of DNA analysis mostly showing regional and ethnic DNA differences than specific families.

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 4:16 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Ohhhh, is THAT where they got the DNA confirmation? From purported relatives of OBL living in the US?



HALF relatives and STEP relatives were used for the DNA test. These DNA test results were immediately dumped in the ocean within 24 hours, as required by Talmudic Jewish law.

Never mind that this was Bin Laden's BROTHER who was living in this CIA safe house, since he married Usama's widows after Usama died 10 years ago as required by Islamic law.

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 5:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

The only thing President Obama needs to do to piss of the idiotic right is to get up in the morning.


piss OF ? Were you trying to say ' piss off ' ?

ROFLOL !!!!!!




Yes, it would seem so. Or, as you would say,

"You can't debate the issues, so you resort to your usual antics."

Note your refusal to respond to the issues, as always.



Actually, I DID respond to the issue, as always.

Only you would equate the President's birth certificate to top secret info gleaned from a covert ops to kill bin Laden.

You see Kwickie, two different issues call for different responses. Is that too much for you to handle ?

Seems so.


* And since you can't even post properly, I took the liberty to fix the broken quote command you messed up, when trying to post the above.

Crassic.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 7:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As to letting the info out, does anyone really think they did so without omitting stuff they want to keep secret, and already having a bead on anyone they want BEFORE they let it out? Yes, it would be stupid to do so before they made use of the info, but given it took some time before they released it, I’m betting they’ve already got people watching anyone they got a bead on. There’s also the possibility that by saying they got a treasure trove of info, they EXPECT people to go underground, as in to mess up anything Al Qaeda has already planned and generally screwing up their communications and organization. SAYING you have important intel on ‘em effectively makes ‘em wonder how much we’ve got and what...lotta scrambling going on, I’d bet.

As to Condi Rice, you expected differently? She’s a mouthpiece, nothing more, and I caught her mentioning the waterboarding thing as having given us “important information”. I expect no less.

Byte, someone snarked that DNA takes a long time to process, by the way, as one reason it’s “fake”. I heard an explanation of that saying it’s not a full DNA scan, it’s something quicker---whatever that means. And I’d like to see proof it was just “half” and “step” family members they took DNA off, because I don’t believe it.

I see the right is calling for a return to waterboarding now...again pretty predictable. They’d love us to believe that waterboarding led to OBL’s capture/death, but it didn’t, as I showed before, nobody said it DID, and it’s just a tactic anyway.

As to anything Raptor wrote, eh, the question remains: Why does anyone pay him any attention or ever take him seriously?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:12 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Byte, someone snarked that DNA takes a long time to process, by the way, as one reason it’s “fake”. I heard an explanation of that saying it’s not a full DNA scan, it’s something quicker---whatever that means. And I’d like to see proof it was just “half” and “step” family members they took DNA off, because I don’t believe it.


It actually doesn't. An RFLP electrophoresis takes like thirty minutes, which is probably what they would've done here. I used to do them back in my biotech classes. It's not quite my field, but it's important to know the realities of the sciences and methods involved, as well as the drawbacks.

You can compare family members this way to some extent, this is often what is done for paternity tests. But it's not 100% guaranteed when you have a match. Generally you're playing the odds, people from a region or ethnicity will often share a lot of the same snip points in their DNA fragments.

Gene sequencing for an entire genome of an organism (like humans) can take years, though the process has speeded up in the past few years. But they wouldn't have been sequencing the entire genome. They'd only have been looking for genetic markers to determine identity, so, RFLP.

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'm sure you're right, that's what they used. Nonetheless, I read that the accuracy is one in several billion--more people than there are on the planet. It's good enough for me, when combined with all the other information they got, are getting, and that one of his wives identified him.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:30 AM

BYTEMITE


Grain of salt, though, grain of salt. There have been a number of cases that seemed slam dunk because of the forensics saying the genetic material matched the crime scene, only for later information to come out showing the person was factually innocent. Like I said, it's playing the odds, assuming that there won't be more than a few people on the planet with that specific DNA sequence or fingerprint, but that does occasionally turn out not to be reality.

Remember that not everyone on the planet has been gene sequenced. The odds of a match aren't calculated from the number of people it COULD match, it's calculated from the size of the fragment relative to the entire genome, which is why you get odds that are greater than the existing population of the earth for some fragments.

However, the picture is at least starting to become clearer.

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 2:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

As to anything Raptor wrote, eh, the question remains: Why does anyone pay him any attention or ever take him seriously?




How many years are you going to keep asking that same question ?

You liked the puppy cam well enough.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 4:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Only you would equate the President's birth certificate to top secret info gleaned from a covert ops to kill bin Laden.

You see Kwickie, two different issues call for different responses. Is that too much for you to handle ?

Seems so.



Quote:

The only thing President Obama needs to do to piss of the idiotic right is to get up in the morning.


piss OF ? Were you trying to say ' piss off ' ?

ROFLOL !!!!!!


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "





Hmmmm... Something comes to mind... What was it? Who was it who said

Quote:


You keep harping on meaningless message board grammar only shows me and everyone that you're nothing but a light weight, trying to play w/ the big dogs.



Who said that? Oh yeah - that would be YOU, wouldn't it? It's easy to tell, because it's written in amazingly bad English by someone with around a 3rd-grade education.

Guess you better get back under your momma's bed, son.

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 9:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Originally posted by Raptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

As to anything Raptor wrote, eh, the question remains: Why does anyone pay him any attention or ever take him seriously?

How many years are you going to keep asking that same question ?

Just as long and whenever you post ridiculous idiocy. Why, does it bother you? Then my work here is done...
Quote:

You liked the puppy cam well enough.
Yeah, still watching it. You do better when you don't actually write anything; at least the puppies are entertaining...

Just FYI, since it came up:
Quote:

Ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Ancient Greek: ???e????, élleipsis, "omission" or "falling short") is a mark or series of marks that usually indicate an intentional omission of a word in the original text. An ellipsis can also be used to indicate a pause in speech, an unfinished thought, or, at the end of a sentence, a trailing off into silence (aposiopesis). When placed at the end of a sentence, the ellipsis can also inspire a feeling of melancholy longing. The ellipsis calls for a slight pause in speech.

The most common form of an ellipsis is a row of three periods or full stops (...)

There! You learned something today...if you can retain it, that is...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, May 12, 2011 10:23 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

As to anything Raptor wrote, eh, the question remains: Why does anyone pay him any attention or ever take him seriously?




How many years are you going to keep asking that same question ?





Likely as long as you continue to spew your bullshit.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 12:37 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

Originally posted by Raptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

As to anything Raptor wrote, eh, the question remains: Why does anyone pay him any attention or ever take him seriously?

How many years are you going to keep asking that same question ?


Just as long and whenever you post ridiculous idiocy. Why, does it bother you? Then my work here is done...
Quote:

You liked the puppy cam well enough.
Yeah, still watching it. You do better when you don't actually write anything; at least the puppies are entertaining...

Just FYI, since it came up:
Quote:

Ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Ancient Greek: ???e????, élleipsis, "omission" or "falling short") is a mark or series of marks that usually indicate an intentional omission of a word in the original text. An ellipsis can also be used to indicate a pause in speech, an unfinished thought, or, at the end of a sentence, a trailing off into silence (aposiopesis). When placed at the end of a sentence, the ellipsis can also inspire a feeling of melancholy longing. The ellipsis calls for a slight pause in speech.

The most common form of an ellipsis is a row of three periods or full stops (...)

There! You learned something today...if you can retain it, that is...



It would be nice if he could learn it and retain it, but because the info came from liberals, we all know he'll simply dismiss it out of hand, then claim later that he never heard any such thing, because he's incapable of learning anything from us, and could certainly never admit it if he did.

If you ever said "Support the Troops!", you are a socialist. You've taken money from me, by force and at gunpoint, and you've given it to people who are on a mission I don't support, and are murdering others in my name, and I am given no choice in the matter.

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