REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Love Kevin Spacey, as an actor, but he's

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Sunday, April 10, 2011 09:12
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Wednesday, April 6, 2011 4:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!





Sorry Kevin, 'apparently' you have your story wrong.

Winston never said it, and Chris, you're a douche.

The REAL story ...

Quote:


1 June 1940 Colville Diary

The second matter concerned evacuation in the event of invasion, or even before invasion. This had been raised in several forms. The Foreign Office had put forward a suggestion to prepare to evacuate the Royal Family, and also the Government, to “some part of the Overseas Empire, where the war would continue to be waged.” When [Desmond] Morton passed on this request to Churchill, the Prime Minister answered: “I believe we shall make them rue the day they try to invade our island. No such discussion can be permitted.”

At this same moment, the Director of the National Gallery, Kenneth Clark, suggested that the paintings in the National Gallery should be sent from London to Canada. Churchill was likewise against this suggestion, and emphatically so. “No,” he minuted, “bury them in caves and cellars. None must go. We are going to beat them.”



http://townhall.com/tipsheet/greghengler/2011/04/05/actor_kevin_spacey
_makes_up_churchill_quote_to_demand_tax_payer_$_for_arts


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, April 6, 2011 5:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Huh. When you and your bunch get caught saying things that aren't true, you claim you aren't a "liar" if you didn't know they weren't true.

Could it be that he didn't *knowingly* say anything wrong?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, April 6, 2011 5:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Kevin openly states that he set out to find specific quotes ... that basically make his case. Problem is, as we so often see w/ the Left, he ignored a thing I like to call reality , and simply went with a quote which SOUNDED like something he wanted to hear.

( Can anyone say rigged AGW data ? I know, I know..different thread ...stay on topic )

This 'professor' got it wrong. And while Chris claims that Churchill was one of his heroes, it didn't phase him in the least that the story Kevin just related was absolute bunk.

Some 'reporter' Matthews is, huh ? Let's let that thought settle in, why don't we ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, April 6, 2011 5:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Almost as good as that "reporter" interviewing Huckabee, when he was clarifying his "gaffe" about Obama's Kenyan upbringing by explaining that on page 183 of his book he specifically refers to Obama's childhood in Indonesia. Except he doesn't refer to it on page 183 of his book, because he doesn't refer to it anywhere in the book. It's not mentioned.

In other words - in YOUR words - Huckabee's a liar, and was clearly shown to be one.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, April 6, 2011 5:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


No, another double fail on your part.

There aren't ANY of ' my words' w/ regard to the Huckabee issue, as I never commented on it. Also, that has nothing what so ever to do w/ the made up quote Kevin went LOOKING for, and alas..found! Imagine his surprise!




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, April 6, 2011 8:31 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I admire Winston's leadership of Britain during WWII, what I know of it sounds good to me. In case someone is going to point out his faults, yes, I know he wasn't perfect, but he did a good job when it counted and accepted help when needed etc. No leader is perfect.

But yeah Kevin Spacey is a good actor, but I find that actors often don't know as much as they think they know about the world.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, April 6, 2011 8:31 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

This thread makes me shake my head.

***************

From: http://q4td.blogspot.com/2010/12/then-what-are-we-fighting-for-winston
.html


Sunday, December 26, 2010

“Then what are we fighting for?”

— Winston Churchill in response to a suggestion of cutting arts funding to support the war effort

****************

From: http://issues.wnyc.org/wiki/index.php/Arts_and_Culture_Funding

Posted Jan 6 2010

"During the Second World War, Winston Churchill's finance minister said Britain should cut arts funding to support the war effort. Churchill's response: "Then what are we fighting for?""

******************

From: http://musing-museums.tumblr.com/post/1467761259/when-winston-churchil
l-was-asked-to-cut-arts-funding-in


Entry marked November 3

"When Winston Churchill was asked to cut arts funding in favour of the war effort, he simply replied ‘then what are we fighting for?’

Well said, Winston Churchill!

Thanks to museumstudies for the quote."

*******************

From: http://missmakeamovie.blogspot.com/2008/10/then-what-are-we-fighting-f
or.html


Dated October 10, 2008


"During the Second World War, Winston Churchill's finance minister said Britain should cut arts funding to support the war effort.

Churchill's response: 'Then what are we fighting for?' " - Mark Leiren-Young, The Vancouver Sun, Oct.4-08

*********************

From: http://thetweetwatch.com/Detail/Status/28783712141

Dated October 26

"When Winston Churchill was asked to cut arts funding in favor of the war effort, he simply replied, "Then what are we fighting for?" "

**********************



As you can see, Mr. Spacey started lying about this quote at least as far back as 2008, when he somehow injected it into the popular consciousness. I bet if I continue my research, I will find that he invented the quote even further back. Perhaps even before he was born.

I think lying requires some intent. It is possible to be ignorant or misinformed.

I, myself, am ignorant. I have access to no authority on this subject. My only power is to conduct a web search and find dozens of people proclaiming this quote factually. Many 'facts' of our lives are derived thus. I can only imagine the rubbish that passes for truth in our minds.

Is the quote true or not? I know not. But I do know this: It's a great quote, I wish someone had said it. Clearly, a lot of people who idolize Churchill and love the arts think it was really said.

I forgive Mr. Spacey, and I am dismayed at the author of the thread. Not for casting light on ignorance, but for starting fires that have nothing to do with illumination.

--Anthony





Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

P.S. http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1346677_should_we_c
are_about_cuts_to_greater_manchesters_art_scene


Even the Manchester Evening News seems to be misinformed about the ex Prime Minister.


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Thursday, April 7, 2011 12:05 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Sure, forgive Kevin for giving false info and then blame ME for pointing it out.

I see how it is here.

Quote:

But I do know this: It's a great quote, I wish someone had said it. Clearly, a lot of people who idolize Churchill and love the arts think it was really said.



But it wasn't really said, not by Churchill. And that's the key issue here.

Why Winston Churchill would be concerned with state FUNDING of the arts ,in the middle of a war, is somewhat absurd. Fact is, he was concerned with keeping in England that which belonged TO England. And THAT , I feel, is every bit as worthy a point...

The ARTS , as important as they may be, don't necessarily fall under the umbrella of 'proper function of government when it comes to funding. The Arts will carry on, whether they are funded by the Gov't or not.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 12:14 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Huh? What did kevin lie about. There is a big space on your first post. Is it supposed to be filled by something, or is this some kind of existential symbolism on your behalf?

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 12:15 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Oh, there is something there now. My bad. Shame. I liked the idea of existential symbolism.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:33 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


'Course, you have to also consider Rappy's "source", which also had this to say in its little "fact"-based story:

Quote:


The fact that Germany was by far the most cultured and artistically sophisticated country in the world at this time did not get in the way of Spacey's fabrication.




Nice to know Rappy pays such close attention to folks who idolize Hitler for his "culture" and artistic sophistication.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/greghengler/2011/04/05/actor_kevin_spacey
_makes_up_churchill_quote_to_demand_tax_payer_$_for_arts




"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:39 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I'm still waiting for Rappy to admit that he was lying when ha called Spacey a "liar". After all, Rappy himself gets all bent out of shape when such words are applied to him (but has no qualms about calling others such things and refusing to apologize, even after he's been proven wrong). He also takes it quite personally when anyone claims that his messiah, W., was a liar.

"Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Lying. Only in RappyWorld™, it's not, because he insists that it's not a lie if the person telling it doesn't KNOW it's not true. But an actor should always fact-check things, while a President should not, it seems.

Strange situational ethics you've got there, boy.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 2:23 AM

HARDWARE


Wait... isn't acting a type of lying?

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 2:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Kwickie,

Swing & another miss. And again...

The yellow cake story was true. Plame's husband is the liar. They both lied.

The fact that Kevin specifically set out to find this sort of quote is telling. He wanted to make a case for that which he wished were true, and cared not for the truth.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 2:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
Wait... isn't acting a type of lying?

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36




But I saw the " historical documents ".







" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 3:02 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The REAL story ...

The real story according to one biographer. What if WC did say it, but this particular biographer missed it? They make mistakes too.

But for argument's sake, let's assume this biographer is correct. So Kevin quoted something that is widely, but incorrectly, attributed to Winston Churchill. Do a google search on --winston churchill "what are we fighting for"-- and you'll find dozens, if not hundreds, of other people who have quoted it. (Google search actually returned 417,000 results. I'm pretty sure there are at least 150 people in there who cited the same quotation.)

Including the Vancouver Sun.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=4b2c1c6c-4e4e-4067-ae
94-67e7643e6dd6


So how is one actor supposed to know wide attribution is incorrect? You see it so often, one just assumes it is common knowledge.

If you want to debunk that myth, that is fine. But to accuse dozens/hundreds of people of "lying" because they didn't read Winston Churchill's biographies before quoting him is unreasonable.

At worst, they made the mistake of not qualifying, "... attributed to Winston Churchill."






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Thursday, April 7, 2011 4:01 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'll grant that Kevin may have unknowingly given false credit to WC. But the fact he sought out such a quote in the first place makes it all the more " hinky", imo.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 4:19 AM

BYTEMITE


Who cares about Kevin Spacey? Last I checked he was an actor, and the only people who know less about politics than actors are politicians.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 5:46 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Who cares about Kevin Spacey? Last I checked he was an actor, and the only people who know less about politics than actors are politicians.

ROFL. Touché!





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Thursday, April 7, 2011 5:48 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'll grant that Kevin may have unknowingly given false credit to WC. But the fact he sought out such a quote in the first place makes it all the more " hinky", imo.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hello,

I am aghast that someone would seek out supporting philosophies and arguments and quotes to bolster their own point of view.

Or... no, I'm not actually aghast at this. It seems rather normal.

In fact, half the discussions here on fff.net involve people seeking out supporting sources to bolster their arguments, logic, or causes.

The truth is that this thread has nothing to do with Spacey or Churchill. It is instead a device to score political points for a point of view in opposition to a political party.

It boils down neatly to this: "Libtards Lie, News at Eleven."

And but for the sake of making that statement, this thread would not exist here. It would instead exist in some obscure Historical debate forum. "Was Spacey Mistaken?" it might be called. Or "What is the origin of this fable?"

I wish at least that this had been framed in a less antagonistic fashion. One actually aimed at reasonable discussion.

Such as, "It turns out the quote is likely an artifact of the popular imagination, and not anything that Churchill actually said. But the real question is this: Do public dollars need to go to support the arts? There seems to be a common perception amongst some that if the arts are not actively supported by government, then they will dry up and blow away. I can't say I agree. I think the pursuit of artistic expression is innate to human beings, and not connected to or reliant on government support. What do you think?"

If only we could have those kinds of conversations instead of this one.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 5:55 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
But the fact he sought out such a quote in the first place makes it all the more " hinky", imo.

I love quotations. I search for quotations regarding a certain subject all the time. Science. God. Gun rights. Global warming. Government. Federal reserve. Whatever. I store them in a little quotation database I keep. Sometimes, I actually quote them to others.

I almost never double-check to see if the author really said it or not. Or if the quotation has been properly documented. If it turns out the quotation was wrongly attributed, I change it to "Source unknown, attributed to ______ "). No big deal. People make mistakes and accept urban legends or myths as real. You simply don't have time to fact-check every quotation you hear, esp for some interview.

Now if I were publishing an essay and I used a quotation, I try to up my standards and source it. But casually? No, I don't do that.

Am I "hinky"? Maybe. Whatever, you know?

Interestingly, "What are we fighting for?" does not show up as a frequently misattributed Churchill quotation on either of the sources below. So if you did a quick fact-check, there are no major red flags. I suspect they will add this quotation eventually to the misattributed list. But until then, cut these folks some slack, right?

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiquote/en/wiki/Winston_Churchill
http://www.winstonchurchill.org/learn/myths/myths/quotes-falsely-attri
buted-to-him




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Thursday, April 7, 2011 6:07 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
If only we could have those kinds of conversations instead of this one.

From your lips to God's ears. One can only dream.

I would love to see an intelligent, cultured version of FFF.

But then, they probably wouldn't let me in.




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Thursday, April 7, 2011 6:22 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Such as, "It turns out the quote is likely an artifact of the popular imagination, and not anything that Churchill actually said. But the real question is this: Do public dollars need to go to support the arts? There seems to be a common perception amongst some that if the arts are not actively supported by government, then they will dry up and blow away. I can't say I agree. I think the pursuit of artistic expression is innate to human beings, and not connected to or reliant on government support. What do you think?"

I think I have to label myself an elitist on this issue. It's hard to imagine artistic culture prospering in society without government support - take public libraries as an example. Remove them and I imagine in a few generations literary treasures would be gone from mainstream society forever; lost amid the constant stream of populist, flavour-of-the-month 'chick-lit', or whatever (I'm not quite as passionate about this as I sound, just making a case ). Without public libraries not only would you be unable to sample classic literature for free, the price of buying your own copy of them would rise, as public libraries no longer stock them and it becomes less economic to print them.

So my provocative conclusion is that the free market is a bad decider of what constitutes good art/cultural treasure, and an elitist governmental body/panel does a much better job.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:07 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, another double fail on your part.

There aren't ANY of ' my words' w/ regard to the Huckabee issue, as I never commented on it. Also, that has nothing what so ever to do w/ the made up quote Kevin went LOOKING for, and alas..found! Imagine his surprise!




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



So, a presidential candidate isn't responsible for his words or mistakes, even when misquoting himself...

But an ACTOR gets a quote wrong, and he's a liar.

God, you zealots are a funny breed.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:16 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
So my provocative conclusion is that the free market is a bad decider of what constitutes good art/cultural treasure, and an elitist governmental body/panel does a much better job.

I like the free market, but I am afraid I agree with you on this point.

Except I don't think the "elitist governmental body/panel" has to you know, government. It could be a scholarly panel, funded by voluntary contributions, like a private museum gets funding from voluntary contributors. The panel itself could itself be the result of voluteered hours. It doesn't NEED to be funded at gunpoint (by involuntary taxpayer funds).









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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:24 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I don't think classic literature would evaporate in the absence of public funding. Such literature would likely still be required in Colleges and Universities. It would probably become an elite status symbol to be familiar with them.

It's also important to understand that Shakespeare was trashy pop culture once. In the absence of government support, I think art would take two forms.

1) Whatever the public was eager to buy.

2) Whatever wealthy elitists wanted to showcase at their parties.

There have been several times in history where this was the case.

Public dollars don't make or break art. They simply make a wider variety accessible to the unwashed masses.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Who cares about Kevin Spacey? Last I checked he was an actor, and the only people who know less about politics than actors are politicians.



Did you get such air time on Matthews' show ?


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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:50 AM

BYTEMITE


*eyebrow*

Who?

Kidding. But really, I don't care much about Chris Matthews' opinions, for the same reason I don't care much about Kevin Spacey's opinions.

For one, I've never met them, never talked to them. And for two, most people who are celebrities haven't yet shown they can tell a hole in the ground from their backsides, and what's worse, they're doing headstands.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

The truth is that this thread has nothing to do with Spacey or Churchill. It is instead a device to score political points for a point of view in opposition to a political party.

It boils down neatly to this: "Libtards Lie, News at Eleven."




My point was that not only did Spacey come up w/ a phony quote, but he was then treated with the most accepting sort of deference and agreement by Matthews. It falls in line with what both WANT to be true, and instead of dealing in fact, they instead make up their own little version, repeat it, put it out in the ethos, and folks blindly accept it, and move on.

Quote:


And but for the sake of making that statement, this thread would not exist here. It would instead exist in some obscure Historical debate forum. "Was Spacey Mistaken?" it might be called. Or "What is the origin of this fable?"

I wish at least that this had been framed in a less antagonistic fashion. One actually aimed at reasonable discussion.

Such as, "It turns out the quote is likely an artifact of the popular imagination, and not anything that Churchill actually said. But the real question is this: Do public dollars need to go to support the arts? There seems to be a common perception amongst some that if the arts are not actively supported by government, then they will dry up and blow away. I can't say I agree. I think the pursuit of artistic expression is innate to human beings, and not connected to or reliant on government support. What do you think?"

If only we could have those kinds of conversations instead of this one.

--Anthony



Yeah.. that'd be nice. Had YOU started such a thread.

But you didn't. Someone else did, and with their own point of view.

Crazy, huh?

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, another double fail on your part.

There aren't ANY of ' my words' w/ regard to the Huckabee issue, as I never commented on it. Also, that has nothing what so ever to do w/ the made up quote Kevin went LOOKING for, and alas..found! Imagine his surprise!


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



So, a presidential candidate isn't responsible for his words or mistakes, even when misquoting himself...



How you came to that conclusion and what it has to do w/ the thread ... I'm really not following you.

Quote:


But an ACTOR gets a quote wrong, and he's a liar.

God, you zealots are a funny breed.



Again, you're way off the mark.

Try to keep up, or just sit there until the next thread comes by. Maybe you can join in on that one ?


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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
My point was that not only did Spacey come up w/ a phony quote, but he was then treated with the most accepting sort of deference and agreement by Matthews. It falls in line with what both WANT to be true, and instead of dealing in fact, they instead make up their own little version, repeat it, put it out in the ethos, and folks blindly accept it, and move on.


Pot, meet Kettle.

-F

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:24 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

I like the free market

Me too.

Quote:

Except I don't think the "elitist governmental body/panel" has to you know, government. It could be a scholarly panel, funded by voluntary contributions, like a private museum gets funding from voluntary contributors. The panel itself could itself be the result of voluteered hours. It doesn't NEED to be funded at gunpoint (by involuntary taxpayer funds).

My fear with private funding is that wealthy contributors could have an influence over what literature was subsidised. You might end up with a special preference for the works of Ayn Rand, for example. I agree the panel could be made up of passionate volunteers - that may be the most incorruptible system.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:32 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Public dollars don't make or break art. They simply make a wider variety accessible to the unwashed masses.

Yep, but my concern is not for the health of art, but the health of society. I think a society whose cultural treasures are easily accessible to everyone is healthier: more egalitarian, meritocratic and cohesive. Cultured, informed citizens rather than unwashed masses.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Pot, meet Kettle.

-F



Toast and butter....


Seriously, do you have ANYTHING of substance to offer ?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:43 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Sure, but casting such pearls before you, is a waste of time.

-F
You just HAD to touch the hot burner twice, didn't you ?

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 8:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Sure, but casting such pearls before you, is a waste of time.

-F



So, this is now your thing, huh? Make inane, baseless comments or claims, and then run away, w/ out even the decency to bother to explain?

Meh.


Seriously, I have no idea what your 'deal' is, and why you even bother posting if you're not going to carry on a coherent thought or reply.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 9:00 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

My point was that not only did Spacey come up w/ a phony quote, but he was then treated with the most accepting sort of deference and agreement by Matthews. It falls in line with what both WANT to be true, and instead of dealing in fact, they instead make up their own little version, repeat it, put it out in the ethos, and folks blindly accept it, and move on.




You mean, like the little version of reality that Huck presented, completely falsely, and made up a BS excuse for, which also turned out to be untrue?

Yeah, cuz only liberals lie.

You're such a lock stepping dimwit. It's adorable.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 9:03 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Yep, but my concern is not for the health of art, but the health of society. I think a society whose cultural treasures are easily accessible to everyone is healthier: more egalitarian, meritocratic and cohesive. Cultured, informed citizens rather than unwashed masses.

I agree.

But nothing is stopping the unwashed masses from contributing too.

For example, science museums are wonderful, wonderful places. They sell annual memberships at relatively affordable rates ($100/family) so their kids can go as much as possible. Granted, that may not keep it afloat, together with charitable contributions from the rich, everything can work out.

My point is, just because we don't use "govt" doesn't mean we can't work together collectively, on a voluntary basis, for something worth sharing.




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Thursday, April 7, 2011 9:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

You mean, like the little version of reality that Huck presented, completely falsely, and made up a BS excuse for, which also turned out to be untrue?

Yeah, cuz only liberals lie.

You're such a lock stepping dimwit. It's adorable."




You're the one ignoring the Spacey distortion,and treatment by Matthews. What the HUckster does is completely irrelevant, and not of any significance to this story.

I am sore bored with the ever predictable " Yeah, but they do it too! " , knee jerk reaction from the Left. You can't defend it, so instead you try to equivocate, and play this asinine game of tit for tat, as if you need to keep score or something.

Deal with the issue, as it is, with OUT trying to act like a 4 year old, k ?


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 9:48 AM

OPPYH


Rappy,
Why even post in the RWED? You constantly get your news media, and reality mixed up. You pick really nonsensical subjects to tackle, blow them up into major life or death matters(which they certainly are not). Your spell check may be a forgiving soul, but apparently you shunned it from your village. Just stop with the political stuff already. I'd be glad to talk to you about other RWED things no one has the answers to, like The Phoenix Lights. But I figure a thread like that will just invite the master Troll PN.

3 cheers for America my friend.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 10:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


So, might this thread have best been started in News Headline Discussion ? I kinda think THAT would be over blowing it a bit.

Or are you suggesting that news media is NOT in any way 'reality' ? On that point, we might very well agree.

The Phoenix lights, meaning the UFO configuration which many saw and videotaped ?

That is a bit of a mystery, as I recall.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 12:17 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I agree that the arts should be available for the "unwashed masses" as to who would do better at supporting such things, the government or volunteer bodies, I don't really know, I figure we have both now and that's fine with me for the time being.

How can we expect Spacey to know everything? Hollywood people rarely seem to know much, sure there are exceptions, but generally they just read their lines, just like ... acting in films, read and memorize. Don't get me wrong I like actors, after all if we didn't have them we wouldn't have movies or plays, so I do appreciate them and their talents.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 12:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Sure, but casting such pearls before you, is a waste of time.

-F



So, this is now your thing, huh? Make inane, baseless comments or claims, and then run away, w/ out even the decency to bother to explain?




Yeah, he should have posted a Chris Matthews video and then called you a copy-cat! BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!


Quote:

My point was that not only did Spacey come up w/ a phony quote, but he was then treated with the most accepting sort of deference and agreement by Matthews. It falls in line with what both WANT to be true, and instead of dealing in fact, they instead make up their own little version, repeat it, put it out in the ethos, and folks blindly accept it, and move on.



This is the driving force behind the conservative movement and FauxNews. Lie, lie, lie, and keep repeating the lie until it becomes your intended audience's accepted "truth".

And look how well it works. You actually BELIEVE the yellowcake lie!

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

And look how well it works. You actually BELIEVE the yellowcake lie!



Who lied ? Bush? The British intel who always stuck w/ the story ?

Do you even know ? Or care ? Of course you don't, because all you have left is to make empty claims, time and time again.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 5:15 PM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Phoenix lights, meaning the UFO configuration which many saw and videotaped ?

That is a bit of a mystery, as I recall.




Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Better to discuss things we can't answer and speculate. Did you know they Appeared in 1997, and 2007 over Phoenix? Over 10,000 witnesses. Government denied it saying they were military flares. A group of Hospice workers noted that the object hovered over their balcony eerily silent. No engine noise. They estimated the object(or ship) to be massive.


Now, what were you saying about Kevin Spacey?

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 5:36 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


I like Kevin Spacey as an actor, but he's...


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Friday, April 8, 2011 2:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Phoenix lights, meaning the UFO configuration which many saw and videotaped ?

That is a bit of a mystery, as I recall.




Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Better to discuss things we can't answer and speculate. Did you know they Appeared in 1997, and 2007 over Phoenix? Over 10,000 witnesses. Government denied it saying they were military flares. A group of Hospice workers noted that the object hovered over their balcony eerily silent. No engine noise. They estimated the object(or ship) to be massive.

Now, what were you saying about Kevin Spacey?





That's why there's more than just 1 thread , I suppose.

And as for your topic... some want to believe. I want to know.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, April 8, 2011 2:50 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

But for argument's sake, let's assume this biographer is correct. So Kevin quoted something that is widely, but incorrectly, attributed to Winston Churchill. Do a google search on --winston churchill "what are we fighting for"-- and you'll find dozens, if not hundreds, of other people who have quoted it. (Google search actually returned 417,000 results. I'm pretty sure there are at least 150 people in there who cited the same quotation.)

So how is one actor supposed to know wide attribution is incorrect? You see it so often, one just assumes it is common knowledge.

If you want to debunk that myth, that is fine. But to accuse dozens/hundreds of people of "lying" because they didn't read Winston Churchill's biographies before quoting him is unreasonable.

Quote:

The truth is that this thread has nothing to do with Spacey or Churchill. It is instead a device to score political points for a point of view in opposition to a political party.

It boils down neatly to this: "Libtards Lie, News at Eleven."

And but for the sake of making that statement, this thread would not exist here.
It would instead exist in some obscure Historical debate forum. "Was Spacey Mistaken?" it might be called. Or "What is the origin of this fable?"

And there you have it. Raptor continues on with his partisan, mixed-up jabberwocking and personal insults. Totally a non-thread.

I love Kevin Spacey, I've enjoyed every movie and interview he's been in...except maybe "Swimming With Sharks". If you haven't seen it, please don't!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, April 8, 2011 3:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

And there you have it. Raptor continues on with his partisan, mixed-up jabberwocking and personal insults. Totally a non-thread.



Niki - the only one 'mixed up' here is you. Kevin was wrong. Deal w/ it. You're the one making personal insults here. Totally a non-reply by you.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, April 9, 2011 1:09 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Please show exactly where I said Kevin was RIGHT...because I never did. I'm not mixed up, I merely agreed that this thread is nothing more than more of your partisan jihad to find ANYTHING with which you can diss anything/anyone on the left.
Quote:

Try to keep up, or just sit there until the next thread comes by. Maybe you can join in on that one ?
Quote:

Seriously, do you have ANYTHING of substance to offer ?
Quote:

So, this is now your thing, huh? Make inane, baseless comments or claims, and then run away, w/ out even the decency to bother to explain?
Quote:

Deal with the issue, as it is, with OUT trying to act like a 4 year old, k ?
Quote:

Of course you don't, because all you have left is to make empty claims, time and time again.
Nah, no personal insults there, none whatsoever. You betcha.

I'm sure you don't recognize them as such, you'll insist "I'm just stating the truth"...the problem is, YOUR truth and reality aren't necessarily the same thing.

My post did nothing but quote a very right-on observation. You might have replied to that, but you went off on another tangent and put words in my mouth. In case you missed it, here is what I quoted, and the ENTIRE explanation of this thread:
Quote:

The truth is that this thread has nothing to do with Spacey or Churchill. It is instead a device to score political points for a point of view in opposition to a political party.

It boils down neatly to this: "Libtards Lie, News at Eleven."

And but for the sake of making that statement, this thread would not exist here.




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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