REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, several wounded

POSTED BY: THEHAPPYTRADER
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 05:02
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Saturday, January 8, 2011 11:08 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

By TERRY TANG and AMANDA LEE MYERS, Associated Press Terry Tang And Amanda Lee Myers, Associated Press – 20 mins ago

0 TUCSON, Ariz. – Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona was shot in the head Saturday, an aide was killed, and an unknown number of others were wounded when an assailant opened fire outside a grocery store as the Democratic lawmaker met with constituents, officials said.

C.J. Karamargin, a spokesman for Giffords, said the congresswoman was in surgery as of 1 p.m. local time and that an unspecified number of Giffords staff members were injured in the shooting. Karamargin said he had no other information on the conditions of the injured or on the circumstances of the shooting.

Congressional officials said an aide to the Democrat was killed, and unknown number of others were injured, including staffers to the lawmaker.

President Barack Obama called the shooting "an unspeakable tragedy" and that such "a senseless and terrible act of violence has no place in a free society.

U.S. Capitol police say the shooter is in custody as one official said he carried out the attack with an automatic weapon. The officials who described the events did so on condition of anonymity, saying they were not permitted to comment publicly.

"I am horrified by the senseless attack on Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and members of her staff," newly elected House Speaker John Boehner said. "An attack on one who serves is an attack on all who serve. Acts and threats of violence against public officials have no place in our society. Our prayers are with Congresswoman Giffords, her staff, all who were injured, and their families. This is a sad day for our country."

Click image to see scenes from the Arizona shooting


AP Photo/Arizona Daily Star, Dean Knuth

Three hours after the shooting, the L-shaped shopping center in Tucson was blocked off by police and had fire trucks and other vehicles in its parking lot that blocked the view of the store's front door. No shell casing could be seen from the area 500 yards from the store where reporters and photographers were kept.

Giffords, 40, was re-elected to her third term last November. She was a member of the Arizona House and Senate before coming to Washington.
Related Articles

* Obama: 'Some' killed in Arizona shooting
* Full text: Obama's statement on congresswoman's shooting
* Congresswoman Giffords shot by gunman, in surgery
* Congresswoman Giffords shot, badly wounded in Arizona

Map

Giffords tweeted shortly before the shooting, saying: "My 1st Congress on Your Corner starts now. Please stop by to let me know what is on your mind or tweet me later."

Giffords is married to astronaut Mark E. Kelly, who has piloted space shuttles Endeavour and Discovery. The two met in China in 2003 while they were serving on a committee there, and were married in January 2007.

Giffords was first elected to Congress amid a wave of Democratic victories in the 2006 election, and she won a narrow victory against a tea party favorite in the 2010 election.

She has been mentioned as a possible Democratic nominee in 2012 for the U.S. Senate seat held by Republican Jon Kyl, who has not said whether he'll run again, or for the governor's office in 2014.

The shooting comes amid a highly charged political environment that has seen several dangerous threats against lawmakers but nothing that reached the point of actual violence.

A San Francisco man upset with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's support of health care reform pleaded guilty to threatening the Democratic congresswoman and her family, calling her directly on March 25 and threatening to destroy her Northern California home if she voted for health care reform.

In July, a California man known for his anger over left-leaning politics engaged in a shootout with highway patrol officers after planning an attack on the ACLU and another nonprofit group. The man said he wanted to "start a revolution" by killing people at the ACLU and the Tides Foundation.

Giffords herself has drawn the ire of the right, especially for her support of the health care bill from politicians like Sarah Palin.

Her Tucson office was vandalized a few hours after the House vote to approve the health care law in March, with someone either kicking or shooting out a glass door and window.

Despite the animosity she has generated from the right, Giffords describes herself as a former Republican and current Blue Dog Democrat.

"You know, actually as a former Republican, you know, I consider myself someone who is pretty in the middle, I'm a blue dog Democrat, and one that is interested in making sure that our country maintains our prosperity and frankly, our superiority over other countries and that's where we look at these threat, obviously our defense budget, our level of education," she said in an interview with Fox this week.

___

AP Special Correspondent David Espo contributed to this report from Washington



I don't really know what to say right now, I really didn't expect something like this to happen (successfully, or perhaps almost successfully) in the United States. I hope she pulls through and that those responsible are brought to justice.


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Saturday, January 8, 2011 11:42 AM

TRAVELER

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 11:52 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

This is a tragedy, and I expect it to have far-reaching impact.

I also hope those responsible are all brought to justice.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 11:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ditto Anthony and Happy. It's awful, and to me at least, all the violence mentioned is an illustration of how the awful, divisive rhetoric, can escalate to actual violence. My own fear is that this may be the first (with the new situation), but not the last. I'm also not surprised it first happened in Arizona...

I hope she pulls through INTACT, not just that she pulls through, and my heart goes out to the families of those killed and injured.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Saturday, January 8, 2011 12:08 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"I'm also not surprised it first happened in Arizona..."

Hello,

This sentiment will be widespread, and will reverse many of the freedoms we have only recently come to enjoy here.

Every time some idiot with a gun decides to do something stupid, the whole population pays for it.

--Anthony



Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 12:14 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Ditto Anthony and Happy. It's awful, and to me at least, all the violence mentioned is an illustration of how the awful, divisive rhetoric, can escalate to actual violence. My own fear is that this may be the first (with the new situation), but not the last. I'm also not surprised it first happened in Arizona...

I hope she pulls through INTACT, not just that she pulls through, and my heart goes out to the families of those killed and injured.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off






Agreed. This isn't democracy. I'm also not ready to blame Sarah Palin as half of facebook seems to have already... and I don't think this was a tea party conspiracy. I'd prefer to wait for more information and evidence before jumping too conclusions.

Things like this make me wonder what's happening to America, or if it's always been this way and I'm just growing up and realizing it.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 12:52 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't think it was ANY kind of conspiracy, I just think when you inflame the masses, some will end up with "mob mentality" and act on what they've been encouraged to think. Palin's only one tiny part of it...actually, each person who's encouraged the "threat"...be it to our way of life, Obama's birth/religion, 2nd amendment rights, secession, rebellion...all those add to the higher numerical possibility some idiot will act violently.

Personally, I don't think it's always been this way. I think it's gotten increasingly this way for some time, and escalated enormously where politics is considered in recent times.

And yes, Anthony, it's a generalization and I shouldn't make it, but Arizona has become a hotbed of angry rhetoric, almost exclusively against the left, so that's what occurred to me.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Saturday, January 8, 2011 2:01 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


This is apparently the alleged shooter's YouTube channel:

Quote:








This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 2:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I don't really know what to say right now, I really didn't expect something like this to happen (successfully, or perhaps almost successfully) in the United States.


I did, and warned repeatedly of the ever growing potential for it, and against stoking the fires that would eventually spark it...

Woulda rather been wrong, but I don't see conspiracy so much as an ever more desperate and mentally unbalanced populace becoming a danger to those they feel (rightly or wrongly) have done them ill - and under those circumstances, people do some pretty damn crazy and/or horrible things.

This does not absolve em of responsibility whatever, when one pulls a trigger they naturally assume responsibility for every bullet, and should be held accountable, no matter who they are.
Them that encouraged em to do so are a different problem, for without the circumstances for such incitements to gain traction they are irrelevant.

And I too am concerned about those who would use such an incident as a power grab or excuse to further infringe civil rights, especially as by design or ignorance that will simply accelerate the cycle of violence.

Hell, one COULD make the point here that discrete, affordable mental health care is conceivably a civil defense measure, could they not ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 2:48 PM

ROCKETJOCK


The news from Arizona saddens me, but, frighteningly does not shock. The dangerous hyperbole of the far right, the calls to violence by those hand-fed hatred and conspiracy paranoia by Fox and Beck and Limbaugh. . . It was only a matter of time before the message reached the right kind of weak mind at the right moment. If we do not soon find some way of returning rationality to public discourse, then I weep for the republic

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 2:58 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Rep Giffords read the First Amendment in Congress with the Decaf Tea Party Co-op, then got a bullet in the head from a Commie Libtard, along with a KIA Repub judge...

Commie DailyKos wants Giffords "DEAD" for voting against Mafia princess Pelosi...


Sarah Palin, infiltraitor of the Tea Party, posted an advertisement demanding giffords be "targeted with a full-auto M16"...
http://www.legitgov.org/SarahPac-Called-Ariz-Congresswoman-be-Targeted

The duck is in the noose, the catcher is in the rye, Jared is in the House.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1

Manchurian Candidates in Operation Northwoods are Uncle Scam's Daily Special...


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Saturday, January 8, 2011 4:03 PM

DREAMTROVE


This sort of thing damages the cause a lot. This moron thought he was fighting the powers that be. Actually, he was a psycho. I partly blame another moron, Glenn Beck, for creating these situations.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 4:19 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Let's see... So far, one of Rep. Giffords's staffers is confirmed dead, along with a 9-year-old girl, a Bush-appointed federal judge, and at least three others, along with around 18 others wounded, including Rep. Giffords, who at the moment is still alive.

Watched some of the guy's videos, and he sounds about half PirateNews conspiracy idiot, and all whacko.

And it seems Rep. Gifford was on Sarah Palin's "Hit List" with a riflescope graphic targeted on her district.

This came from Palin's facebook page:



So is there a connection?

Or is this guy a secret Muslim of some sort?

This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 4:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The war has begun.


Choose or perish.





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 4:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The war has begun.


Choose or perish.





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "




Which "war" is that?

This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 4:57 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Really guys? I thought RWED would view this with a little more intelligence than Facebook. Everything has to be a partisan statement...

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:09 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Jared is in the House...of Commons!



Get it? Jared Leto...Jared Lee Loughton...

Funny how none of Jared #2's alleged videos actually have his face nor voice on it...



Only paid Operatives ban comments from their YT vids.

Mikul Tra signing off from Project Monarch... [sound of static]

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


John, I've never seen YOUR face, and I notice you don't post it on your videos, either.

Thank you for the confirmation that you are indeed a government-paid Operative. (I already knew, but you admitting it is a big step for you!)

This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Really guys? I thought RWED would view this with a little more intelligence than Facebook. Everything has to be a partisan statement...




You mean like saying of Muslims, "They started it"? Something partisan like that? Is that what you're referring to?




This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:27 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


I don't recall blaming Muslims for anything in this thread. This has nothing to do with the 'muslim holocaust' in DT's thread, and DT made a very good argument concerning that theory. One I'm not so sure I agree with, but that doesn't have anything to do with anything here.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:29 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Ah, so are we picking and choosing which threads are allowed to be "partisan" now?

This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:32 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I *D*I*D* think Arizona was one of those states that had a newly passed "open carry" law that was gonna reduce violent crime. An armed citizenry was gonna stop criminals with guns from shooting people.

Or maybe they kept it from being worse, made sure nobody but Democrats and liberal supporters got killed or wounded?

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Fucking right-wing assholes.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 5:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Fucking right-wing assholes.




Choose and perish.



And there you have it.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 6:12 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



Liberal Pentagon MEPS soldier shoots ho wife of mass-murdering Navy Captain

Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

John, I've never seen YOUR face, and I notice you don't post it on your videos, either.



Guess you haven't watched my dozens of 1-hour vids from my live radio show.

My sis the "proud Marxist" worked on Giffords campaign, and lived a few blocks from this shooting. She and her foreign kids barely survived another massacre at a Commie Unitarian homo 'church' in Tennessee. She loves open borders and illegal aliens, hates America and freedom, says she wants everyone to live 20 to a house and kill all 2nd born kids like in her previous home in Commie China. Her foreign hubby works in the Global Warming Tax Industrial Complex, freezing with their broken furnace.

I wonder if she'll figure out the Libtards get whacked first when the Commies take over?


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Saturday, January 8, 2011 6:15 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


There's no reason to be an ass about this.

Alright, concerning what I said in a completely unrelated thread... I claimed Iraq and Afghanistan were not like the holocaust because the Muslim extremists "started it" with 9/11 and that we weren't exactly rounding up American Muslims and seizing their property, and other things you can read in that thread where it belongs. DT efficiently destroyed my argument and offered insight into the issue I was not previously aware of. I haven't posted there since because I didn't have anything worth contributing.

I refuse to pick a 'side' politically because I'm not overly fond of any of them, but this tenacious left wing hounding can make it difficult to remain neutral. I'm upset that those responsible for this tragedy this had no respect for the American people who democratically elected this official and was willing to kill for that. It doesn't matter whether I agree with Giffords or if she is a Democrat, what happened was wrong.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 6:25 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:

I claimed Iraq and Afghanistan were not like the holocaust because the Muslim extremists "started it" with 9/11 and that we weren't exactly rounding up American Muslims and seizing their property



Jews and US Govt did 9/11 with help from Mossad, UK and NATO. Cui bono? (Show me the money in Latin)

Read Pentagon's declassified Operation Northwoods and Operation Gladio, their signed confessions to 100s of false-flag terror bombings to blame patsies.

FBI already confessed in fed court to bombing WTC in 1993, as reported in NY Times. FBI paid Emad Salem $1.5-million and gave him the bomb that killed 6 sheeple, with immunity from prosecution to convict a blind preacher.

Everyone who supports these wars is guilty of murder. The punishment for murder is death.


http://september911surprise.piratenews.org

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 6:26 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I *D*I*D* think Arizona was one of those states that had a newly passed "open carry" law that was gonna reduce violent crime. An armed citizenry was gonna stop criminals with guns from shooting people.

Or maybe they kept it from being worse, made sure nobody but Democrats and liberal supporters got killed or wounded?



I don't think that would apply to automatic weapons, but I'm by no means an expert on another state's legislation. The thought of making this into a Republicans vs Democrats argument where one side must 'win' sickens me. I see this as a crime committed against all of America, not just one party.

EDIT: They now say it was a semi-automatic weapon

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 6:33 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Turns out Giffords SB 1070 for Arizona to ban illegal aliens, so the Dems whacked her.
http://www.infowars.com/breaking-rep-gabrielle-giffords-12-others-shot
-at-grocery-store-event
/

I bet this alleged shooter was kicked out of the military for failing a drug test at MEPS, which is why Pentagon says he wasn't in its database.

Recruits arent technically soldiers yet.

Chalk up more kills for the Drug War. Woo hoo!


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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
There's no reason to be an ass about this.

Alright, concerning what I said in a completely unrelated thread... I claimed Iraq and Afghanistan were not like the holocaust because the Muslim extremists "started it" with 9/11 and that we weren't exactly rounding up American Muslims and seizing their property, and other things you can read in that thread where it belongs. DT efficiently destroyed my argument and offered insight into the issue I was not previously aware of. I haven't posted there since because I didn't have anything worth contributing.

I refuse to pick a 'side' politically because I'm not overly fond of any of them, but this tenacious left wing hounding can make it difficult to remain neutral. I'm upset that those responsible for this tragedy this had no respect for the American people who democratically elected this official and was willing to kill for that. It doesn't matter whether I agree with Giffords or if she is a Democrat, what happened was wrong.




I can't help but feel that you would be far more likely to "pick a side" had this been someone with a Muslim-sounding name, though.

And I'm not trying to be an ass, but you hardly sound neutral. I notice you had nary a discouraging word to say to this particular partisan, for instance:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=47072



This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:11 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


What's the title of this thread?

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:15 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


http://www.theage.com.au/world/us-congresswoman-shot-in-head-by-gunman
-20110109-19jmp.html


Dupnik said he is ‘‘not convinced’’ the suspect acted alone. He told reporters in Tucson that authorities are seeking a person who appeared to have accompanied the suspected gunman. Dupnik said authorities had a photo of the person.
Bystanders gather at the shopping centre where a gunman opened fire. Click for more photos
Tucson shooting
‘‘We have an individual that we are actively in pursuit of,’’ Dupnik said. He described the person as white and ‘‘probably in his 50s.’’

....

Dupnik said that while officials don't know the gunman's motive, he was concerned about extreme rhetoric in the U.S.

''The anger, the hatred, the bigotry has gotten out of control,'' Dupnik said.

''Unfortunately, Arizona has become sort of the capital. This has become the Mecca for bigotry and prejudice.''

''Pretty soon we're not going to be able to get reasonable, decent people to serve in elected office in this country,'' the sheriff said.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:19 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
What's the title of this thread?



Can you not read?

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:20 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

I can't help but feel that you would be far more likely to "pick a side" had this been someone with a Muslim-sounding name, though.

And I'm not trying to be an ass, but you hardly sound neutral. I notice you had nary a discouraging word to say to this particular partisan, for instance:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=47072



Okay... I don't understand why you feel that way. Have I done something that leads you to believe I've got a prejudice or grudge against Muslims? Maybe you can tell me what makes you think that way and we can clear that up.

Am I now responsible for Kane's post? I thought everyone ignored (him/her?) I started this thread so I said something about partisanship here, which applied Rap as much as anyone. Hell, if I'm held responsible for what I haven't said here or anywhere, then explaining anything is pointless.

I think you're a fairly intelligent guy and I respect your post (specially concerning cars) when you're not coming across as a snarky asshole. I don't hate you, I don't hate liberals, but I do think your being an ass here.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Have I been unduly "partisan" about this issue in this thread? If so, can you show me where? Have I claimed - ANYWHERE - that this guy shot her because she's a "liberal" or a "socialist"? I *did* point out that a Bush-appointed judge was killed.

I also mentioned that she was on Palin's so-called "hit list", with the graphic of a rifle-scope centered on her district. That isn't "partisan" of me to say; it's a fact. It exists. It happened. It's still on Palin's facebook page.

As for your prejudice against Muslims, I think saying things like "they started it" pretty well shows that to be the case. Or it shows a profound ignorance of recent history; take your pick, but neither of them paints you in a flattering light.

As for me being a snarky asshole, I *AM* a snarky asshole! Did you not receive the memo? I thought it went to every new member when they signed up!

This Space For Rent!

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 7:57 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

As for your prejudice against Muslims, I think saying things like "they started it" pretty well shows that to be the case. Or it shows a profound ignorance of recent history; take your pick, but neither of them paints you in a flattering light.


"they started it" was definitely one of the stupidest things I've ever said on RWED, but even in the pathetic argument, I admitted it was weak and childish. I shouldn't have ignored my spidey sense when I posted that. I've already conceded that DT has the superior argument in that thread. Is "they started it" going to be used against me in every RWED thread from now on? I think I'm starting to see why some people chose to leave...

Quote:

I also mentioned that she was on Palin's so-called "hit list", with the graphic of a rifle-scope centered on her district. That isn't "partisan" of me to say; it's a fact. It exists. It happened. It's still on Palin's facebook page.


I see the "Palin hit list" as misleading, but again, that wasn't directed solely at you. It most mostly about the choose or die comment. She was on Palin's "target list" for seats the Tea Party was competing for in the election. Targets have a tendency to look like... ya know, targets. I doubt a series of circles would look much better than the cross-hairs did after this incident.

Quote:

As for me being a snarky asshole, I *AM* a snarky asshole! Did you not receive the memo? I thought it went to every new member when they signed up!


Yeah, you do claim to be the angriest person on the internet, so I suppose it was my own fault for letting that get to me. You're angry and persistent and must have the last word. You've successfully deflected my attention from the original topic with partisan jabs and racism/bigotry/fascism accusations on more than a few threads and occasions. I'm sure I won't get the last word here, but carry on! It seems to work for you and who am I to stop you?

I don't hate any Browncoats here, but damn if some of y'all ain't just infuriating.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 8:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


I see the "Palin hit list" as misleading, but again, that wasn't directed solely at you. It most mostly about the choose or die comment. She was on Palin's "target list" for seats the Tea Party was competing for in the election. Targets have a tendency to look like... ya know, targets. I doubt a series of circles would look much better than the cross-hairs did after this incident.



I see it as one of those little things that has a way of helping to set the stage for big things to happen. When you have people like Palin putting up her "target list", telling people "don't retreat - RELOAD!", and there are folks like Limbaugh and others saying that liberals must be "destroyed" and "wiped out", it's not really a far stretch to someone taking them seriously, if not downright LITERALLY.

Also, I've been accused on more than one occasion of having a bad case of "last-word-itis". It's true, but I'm hardly the only poster in these parts who suffers from it. It seems to be a pandemic... ;)

Now, as to the "they started it" thing. It's not a big deal, BUT it DOES kind of point to a prejudice that I don't think you even knew you had, and that was what I was trying to point out. I thought DT and CTTS did a great job of disabusing you of that notion, but it's worth remembering, because sometimes we ALL need to ask ourselves, "And why do I believe that?"

I'm not calling you a racist, because I don't think you are one; if anything, you've gone out of your way to try to be fair to everyone here. What I'm saying, though, is that WE ALL HAVE OUR PREJUDICES. Most of us don't even see them, and it's not automatically a bad thing to have them pointed out by a stranger now and again.

I have my prejudices, even if I think I don't, and even as I try to overcome them. The fact that I might *think* I don't have them just proves to me that I'm blind to them, not that they don't exist. But knowing this, it tends to make me think about things as I'm writing them, or hopefully BEFORE I say them! Vigilance, always.

We all have our blind spots. Trick is to not let them get us blind-sided.

And yeah, crap like "The war has begun - choose or perish!" really doesn't help anything or anyone. Some folks just love death, it seems, and want to watch the world burn.


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Saturday, January 8, 2011 8:41 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Sorry if I'm depriving you of the last word but I just wanted to say shiny. While I'm not fond of anyone poking or pointing out my perceived flaws (which may or may not really be there) nor do I think it should be anyone's responsibility to point out anyone else's, it's not a bad thing to be aware of.

I feel like I should start adding some sort of signature... maybe I'll think of something after some rest.

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Saturday, January 8, 2011 9:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Choose and perish.And there you have it.
God, what a weasely little coward. You can't even state your opinions plainly, and you hide behind the skirts of assassins. Well, I've chosen. You'll perish.

How's that?

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 12:13 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Ok, everyone calm down.

This is more like the nut who flew his plane into the IRS building.

He saw a target of oppurtunity and acted.

Not the beginning of a civil war. Not some vast right-wing conspiracy...

and I thought I was dramatic.


Now lets see what happens.

We can be sure of a few things tho. Some clown is going to try and use this as an exscuse for more gun control. Another is going to have a teary eyed speech on how Gillfor was SO FOR psrty-line issues. Another will try and make the people who died, martyrs for their causes.







"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The war has begun.


Choose or perish.




Which "war" is that?



The war you clowns are geeked up about there being, phonying up intent and culpability by showing Palin's POLITICAL strategy and assigning it meaning which it clearly did NOT have, and changing thread titles to suggest the most ridiculous, simply to project your political wet dreams.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:55 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Huh. Pretty sure it wasn't I who claimed that "The war has begun", so I don't know where you get that *I'M* "geeked up" about it. Seems you have this wet dream about waging war on "liberals", but you righties are always all about war, ain'tchya?

Also, I've made no mention of this guy's political motivations or leanings. I stated that Palin had targeted this congressperson. Seems the only ones ASSUMING that he's a right-wing whackjob are you right-wing whackjobs.

This Space For Rent!

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 3:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Huh. Pretty sure it wasn't I who claimed that "The war has begun", so I don't know where you get that *I'M* "geeked up" about it. Seems you have this wet dream about waging war on "liberals", but you righties are always all about war, ain'tchya?

Also, I've made no mention of this guy's political motivations or leanings. I stated that Palin had targeted this congressperson. Seems the only ones ASSUMING that he's a right-wing whackjob are you right-wing whackjobs.




Yeah, ya did. When you posted that pic of SarahPac, the meaning was not so subtle at all.

"And it seems Rep. Gifford was on Sarah Palin's "Hit List" with a riflescope graphic targeted on her district."


Your attempt is clear, blame Sarah and the GOP for this nut case's actions.

Clinton tried to do the same thing, with Rush Limbaugh and the OK City bombing.

That there's nothing to it, doesn't matter, you'll still try to draw a connection, none the less.

Palin's got zero do to w/ this, at all.



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 3:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Again, Rappy, you are inferring things and motives that I have not implied. All the partisanship, "geeking out" about some wannabe-war, and "phonied up" controversy is in YOUR mind, not mine. I made note of the FACT that Palin had this woman on her target list. I made no connection, but asked if there might be a connection. You're the one jumping to conclusions here, assigning motives and agenda where none have been made clear.

I also asked if the guy might be Muslim. Oddly, you aren't screaming about THAT. Go figure...

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 4:23 AM

WHOZIT


MSNBC reported this a.m. that this looney was a far left liberal, you libs may want to tread lightly here, it wouldn't be the 1st time you raced you mouths with you brains in neuteral. I think if you try to tie the "Tea Party" or Sarah Palin to this you'll REALLY regret it this time.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 4:27 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Again, Rappy, you are inferring things and motives that I have not implied. All the partisanship, "geeking out" about some wannabe-war, and "phonied up" controversy is in YOUR mind, not mine. I made note of the FACT that Palin had this woman on her target list. I made no connection, but asked if there might be a connection. You're the one jumping to conclusions here, assigning motives and agenda where none have been made clear.



Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Fucking right-wing assholes.


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Sunday, January 9, 2011 4:32 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
MSNBC reported this a.m. that this looney was a far left liberal, you libs may want to tread lightly here, it wouldn't be the 1st time you raced you mouths with you brains in neuteral. I think if you try to tie the "Tea Party" or Sarah Palin to this you'll REALLY regret it this time.




Which is why I *haven't* tried to tie him to anything, because we don't know what his leanings are. Seems there's a rush by right-wingers to try to distance themselves from the guy, though. Looking at his YouTube stuff, he just comes across as a loon. That's probably too harsh - his ramblings seem more along the lines of a possible schizophrenic who's gone off his meds.



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Sunday, January 9, 2011 4:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Again, Rappy, you are inferring things and motives that I have not implied. All the partisanship, "geeking out" about some wannabe-war, and "phonied up" controversy is in YOUR mind, not mine. I made note of the FACT that Palin had this woman on her target list. I made no connection, but asked if there might be a connection. You're the one jumping to conclusions here, assigning motives and agenda where none have been made clear.



Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Fucking right-wing assholes.





Last time I checked, I'm not Signy, am I?

Of course, you're not Rappy either, are you? ;)

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 4:40 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
MSNBC reported this a.m. that this looney was a far left liberal, you libs may want to tread lightly here, it wouldn't be the 1st time you raced you mouths with you brains in neuteral. I think if you try to tie the "Tea Party" or Sarah Palin to this you'll REALLY regret it this time.




Which is why I *haven't* tried to tie him to anything, because we don't know what his leanings are. Seems there's a rush by right-wingers to try to distance themselves from the guy, though. Looking at his YouTube stuff, he just comes across as a loon. That's probably too harsh - his ramblings seem more along the lines of a possible schizophrenic who's gone off his meds.



This Space For Rent!

I did say "YOU", but if you go to all the news sites they can't help but connect Palin and the "Tea Party". My guess is the MSM just took it for granted early on that this guy was a righty.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 4:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And it seems that you are taking it for granted that he's a "far left lib"; I've seen no evidence to support that claim, either.

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