REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, several wounded

POSTED BY: THEHAPPYTRADER
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 05:02
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 22291
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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You and Rappy keep assigning me motives, positions, agendas, and opinions. Now you're going to get pissy when I return the favor?


So you have never said anything at all inflammatory regarding Palin or tea-partiers?



In this thread? Well, I refer to them as teabaggers, because that's the name they chose themselves, not realizing it was a bit self-insulting, and I'm happy to oblige and call them what they wanted to be called...

Quote:


So much easier to dehumanize your opponent, is that about right?



You'd certainly never stoop to such levels, right? That high horse you rode in on? Yeah, it's way over there now, and you're far too small to mount it again.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:16 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
In this thread? (nice caveat) Well, I refer to them as teabaggers, because that's the name they chose themselves, not realizing it was a bit self-insulting, and I'm happy to oblige and call them what they wanted to be called...


Wow, that almost sounded like an answer to my question.
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You'd certainly never stoop to such levels, right? That high horse you rode in on? Yeah, it's way over there now, and you're far too small to mount it again.


Don't have a horse, never said I did. That is just the present position you have assigned for me.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:18 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
In this thread? (nice caveat) Well, I refer to them as teabaggers, because that's the name they chose themselves, not realizing it was a bit self-insulting, and I'm happy to oblige and call them what they wanted to be called...


Wow, that almost sounded like an answer to my question.
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You'd certainly never stoop to such levels, right? That high horse you rode in on? Yeah, it's way over there now, and you're far too small to mount it again.


Don't have a horse, never said I did. That is just the present position you have assigned for me.




Well, that's the position you claim I've taken, eh?

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:32 AM

KANEMAN


I say fuck it. Shoot these liberals shoot em dead. There is only one way to win this war of principles...kill em all



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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

And you're jut as crazy as bin Laden and Charles Manson.
Really? Difference being, I'm not the one talking about killing. That's my last response to you for a couple of days. Maybe even until the weekend. Promise.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Why do Lefties always go back to that cartoonish claim? No one is ever " wrong ", or someone with you disagree, they're a LIAR or DISHONEST.




I didn't know you were a lefty.

Quote:


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.



Or was that some OTHER Rappy who posted that "cartoonish claim"?


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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

And you're jut as crazy as bin Laden and Charles Manson.
Really? Difference being, I'm not the one talking about killing.




Or cheering on those who kill, like Rappy here.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

And you're jut as crazy as bin Laden and Charles Manson.
Really? Difference being, I'm not the one talking about killing. That's my last response to you for a couple of days. Maybe even until the weekend. Promise.



Man, you're easy. of course, I never said anything about killing anyone, now did I?




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:58 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.



Or was that some OTHER Rappy who posted that "cartoonish claim"?




Well, he is. Was I wrong ? Nope.

And where'd I ever cheer for this AZ shooter nut case ? Oh, that's right, I NEVER DID.

Such things only occur in your mind, Kwickie.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:07 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


This is getting ridiculous, but I'm going to try and do a quick recap from when this thread turned for the worse. Sorry kwick, but I think it started with

Quote:

And it seems Rep. Gifford was on Sarah Palin's "Hit List" with a riflescope graphic targeted on her district.

So is there a connection?

Or is this guy a secret Muslim of some sort?



which was more than a little misleading. That didn't have to set things in a downward spiral but Rappy brilliantly responded with

Quote:

The war has begun.


Choose or perish.



which was outright hostile. I made my spiel, kwick and I argued, and eventually resolved that. NEWOLDBROWNCOAT was the first to take advantage of this tragedy for a political motivation

Quote:

I *D*I*D* think Arizona was one of those states that had a newly passed "open carry" law that was gonna reduce violent crime. An armed citizenry was gonna stop criminals with guns from shooting people.

Or maybe they kept it from being worse, made sure nobody but Democrats and liberal supporters got killed or wounded?



I find it ironic that something that blatant would attract less attention than kwicko's post. I guess it makes more than a little difference who does the posting. Signym responds with an unsurprisingly and blatantly hostile

Quote:

Fucking right-wing assholes.


despite the lack of information or evidence at the time. Rappy responds chose or perish... again...

There's some PN stuff here or there but I'm skipping that.

Wulf tell's everyone to calm down in a demeaning way, which unsurprisingly, only escalates things further, rappy adds

Quote:

The war you clowns are geeked up about there being, phonying up intent and culpability by showing Palin's POLITICAL strategy and assigning it meaning which it clearly did NOT have, and changing thread titles to suggest the most ridiculous, simply to project your political wet dreams.


which, minus the unnecessary insults, is dangerously close to true. Y'all have been changing the title and did offer up the Palin campaign strategy as if it were relevant. That's how it appeared anyway, but we can't be certain as to what your intentions were in posting it and there's no way to prove what you meant to accomplish with that, if anything, which y'all are quick to point out.

Still, Rappy did 'start it' far as hostilities go. Then it's basically bitch, bitch, bitch-bitch, bitch and Hero makes a remark that assumes Giffords is dead, which is kind of disappointing as it shows the partisan bullshit has already become more important than the facts. We've already written her off so we can focus on winning a pointless argument? Eventually real evidence and detective work will solve this for us. But I suppose conjecture is more fun? Then we get Signym's,

Quote:

He's in the far-right wing. Nuttier than a fruitcake like PN, but not so different from Wulf, who espouses violence at every opportunity. And Rappy, with his brilliant little statement about "choose and perish" belongs in the same bag of snakes.

So I gave back what the RWERz here have so generously provided: Intolerance, prejudice, idiocy, and just a whiff of threat. And I find, not surprisingly, that RWERz get all bent out of shape when what THEY do is reflected back at them. Can dish it out, can't take it. Get poked with a stick, and go into a frenzy of whining. Sheesh.



I'm not sure I've ever seen you post anything not hostile in RWED, that's certainly the case in this thread. But, most of y'all have been here a lot longer than I have, so there's a more than a fair chance you have a point I'm unaware of. Not the best way to make that point IMO...

more peeps bitching, then signym actually offers some information (granted not from the most reliable source) that might have something to do with Jared Loughner's motivations, so I guess I retract that statement. that post wasn't particularly hostile. I'm skeptical, and I suspect signym is too, but it's a nice little break from the left vs right bitching. Kwicko adds

Quote:

I haven't personally seen anything that tells me this idiot was a right-winger or a teabagger, but I can't say I'd be shocked if he were. 'Course, I can't say I'd be shocked to find out he was just a lone-nut loser, either, with nothing but confusion filling his head. Mostly, his vids just seem disjointed and lost.


which I was happy to read, cause it's sometimes difficult to figure out exactly where he stands and what he's saying. This statement efficiently sums that up and I can't really disagree with it.

Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch Pirate News, bitch, bitch, baseless accusation that right is taking efforts to distance themselves from a suspect they were never involved with followed by blatant stereotyping and the blame game courtesy of signym, bitch, bitch, bitch, who started it?

Then CTS post something nice that actually has relevance the threads topic. Thanks CTS, and that note was very well said. This is a tragedy, not a competition.

Then it's just more bitching. It might look like I'm unfairly 'quoting' the left, but that's because I'm mostly ignoring personal arguments in favor of post relevant to the issue. Call rappy or kwicko a dick and I probably won't reply, call me a dick and I guess I probably will, saying something insightful or blatantly misleading related to the actual thread topic and I'm more likely to comment on it, if I haven't already given up on said thread.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:33 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.



Or was that some OTHER Rappy who posted that "cartoonish claim"?




Well, he is. Was I wrong ? Nope.



So the President can't be "wrong", in your opinion, or someone with whom you disagree. He has to be "a god damn, mother fucking liar".

And you claim it's the left that does that, makes that claim. And you claim that in the very thread where you called Signy a "liar" (quoting your exact word there, sporto).


Quote:


And where'd I ever cheer for this AZ shooter nut case ? Oh, that's right, I NEVER DID.



No, you keep holding him up as an example. "The War has begun." "Choose or perish." "Choose AND perish." "Don't start something you don't want started."

Your meaning and implications are quite clear, as you say. (Hey, you love imparting meaning and intent to the words of others, so goose sauce = gander sauce, right?)

Quote:


Such things only occur in your mind, Kwickie.



And yours, it seems. Everything you accuse "the Left" of doing, you've done yourself, even in this one thread.

Now all you have to do to complete the hat trick is yell "Socialist" and "fuck you" and run away. That will pretty much complete your repertoire...


This Space For Rent!

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:36 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Happy, I think you missed the part where KKKaney, avowed right-winger and hero to many of the righties around here, said that all the liberals should absolutely be shot. Let's hope I'm not unfairly quoting the right on that one...


Quote:

[about Kwicko's post]

...which I was happy to read, cause it's sometimes difficult to figure out exactly where he stands and what he's saying. This statement efficiently sums that up and I can't really disagree with it.



I appreciate that. Not sure why it's so hard to nail down what I believe or where I stand. I generally stand to the left of center, and I generally like to ask "...and THEN what?" I've long advocated having a Cabinet position for the "Department of And Then What?"

People like to live in black and white; they don't like to face the greys of reality. I'm the guy in the grey suit, battling the absolute. :)

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


THT -

You actually said what I wanted, when I butchered the line from Ghostbusters.

" Choose AND Perish "


Choose OR Perish was what I posted, and I guess I was confusing that w/ the words Join or Die , under the Revolutionary flag....





The posted remark, which is far more inflammatory than my intended meaning, was suppose to add a bit of tongue in cheek humor to a dire situation...




My attempt failed miserably, which I will freely admit.





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:43 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Also, somebody tried to make the case that this might be a liberal attack, since Giffords is "in favor of tightening border security", as if immigration is something only hard-core right-wingers care about.

I'm not sure I know any liberals who want more open borders. Where we differ isn't on illegal immigration; it's on what to do about it, where to start, and what measures to take. Tightening the borders? Great. How? A wall? Okay, if I'm an enterprising Mexican, I'm building a ladder factory. Make a 20-foot wall, and I'll sell 21-foot ladders. You spent money; I made money.



This Space For Rent!

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


HAPPY, I'm all about discussing and I have bird-dogged down some of the most disingenuous counterpoints know to this board. But I draw the line when peeps threaten. I have sat on a friend's porch with a gun in my lap, waiting for a stalker to show up. Been in more than one dangerous and possibly life-threatening situation. Now, maybe its just me, but bringing that kind of shit to the board is inexcusable and near-unforgivable. I'm doing Rappy the significant courtesy of backing away and allowing him to do the same. Not good enuf for you?

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:58 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Happy, that was a very nice summary.

However, I have to just tell you as an RWED old timer, it's a waste of time trying to get two warring sides to look at the escalation rationally once they have put on their war paint and done their war dance.

My rule as an RWED survivor: ignore the hostile posts. Lots of good stuff on this board. Just navigate past the shipwrecks and driftwood.



Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:59 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


What if...

KWICKO and SIGNYM are one and the same?

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:04 AM

BYTEMITE


Happy is pretty new here, I don't think he recognizes these kinds of flamewars are common place and don't affect day-to-day functioning of the board much. Took me a while to learn this too.

I don't think he meant anything by it Sig. Didn't mean to defend any sorts of threats, and didn't mean to offend.

Glad to hear everyone is going to step back a little.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:05 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

Happy, I think you missed the part where KKKaney, avowed right-winger and hero to many of the righties around here, said that all the liberals should absolutely be shot. Let's hope I'm not unfairly quoting the right on that one...



Not at all, sometimes I miss things kane and whozit post cause I skim over 'em figuring there isn't much substance.

Quote:

HAPPY, I'm all about discussing and I have bird-dogged down some of the most disingenuous counterpoints know to this board. But I draw the line when peeps threaten. I have sat on a friend's porch with a gun in my lap, waiting for a stalker to show up. Been in more than one dangerous and possibly life-threatening situation. Now, maybe its just me, but bringing that kind of shit to the board is inexcusable and near-unforgivable. I'm doing Rappy the significant courtesy of backing away and allowing him to do the same. Not good enuf for you?


Unfortunately, you tend to hit the entire right with proxy fire. 'fucking right wing assholes' and implying the right as a whole is responsible for the attack and are pro-violence. I suppose a good analogy would be this war most all of us hate. You attack the enemy Taliban or rappy and you also hit civilians or right leaning folk not rappy in the process. It may be acceptable to you or just unfortunate collateral damage, but anyone hit with the flak won't think highly of you. I'm not going to claim to know your motivations, I'm just letting you know how it looks from my perspective. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm correct either, but if you can prove me wrong without viciously jabbing at my unrelated and perceived character flaws I would appreciate it

also, I suppose I should thank kwicko for pointing out how I looked concerning the Muslim thing (even though it pissed the hell out of me at the time). I think it was exaggerated, but he wasn't the only person who thought that way. I don't think Muslims as a whole are any more dangerous than any other group of people, their extremists just happen to be trending right now. I suppose I should be more careful in my post so as not to create a false impression.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

No, you keep holding him up as an example. "The War has begun." "Choose or perish." "Choose AND perish." "Don't start something you don't want started."

Your meaning and implications are quite clear, as you say. (Hey, you love imparting meaning and intent to the words of others, so goose sauce = gander sauce, right?)





Not even remotely. Nothing I state holds this guy up, in any remote fashion. The " don't start something " remark had nothing to do w/ the AZ shooter, but was directed squarely at those who bring up Sarah's " hit list " in conjunction to this story, and trying to paint him as some sort of agent for the Right.


One has nothing to do w/ the other. And yet, in typical Leftist fashion, you blur the lines of fact and fantasy, because your position can't ever stand up on its own merits.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:19 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


By "Jared Lee Loughner" Channel Views 2,085,939 (no face no voice no I.D.):
youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/f/0/3L1lsLU-kUw



Burning the US flag is the only lawful way to retire any US flag. VFW does it every day.

BTW Giffords met hubby Mark Kelly and fell in love in Communist China...they were married to other persons at the time. Puttin the ho in homewrecker.

As a good jewish girl, was she a citizen of Israel employed by Mossad to infiltrate US Naval Intelligence, which Capt Kelly is surely a part of in the NASA astronot spy program?

Was Capt Kelly the real target of this Manchurian Commie assassin? Whackin the family has the benefit of leaving the target intact to control.

“My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!”
-Demorat Daily Kos, 2 days before Giffords was shot in the head


"I had favorite books: The Communist Manifesto."
-Jared Lee Loughner (or his sockpuppet)
www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1


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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

also, I suppose I should thank kwicko for pointing out how I looked concerning the Muslim thing (even though it pissed the hell out of me at the time). I think it was exaggerated, but he wasn't the only person who thought that way. I don't think Muslims as a whole are any more dangerous than any other group of people, their extremists just happen to be trending right now. I suppose I should be more careful in my post so as not to create a false impression.




It's hard to not give the wrong impression in online discussions, because so much nuance gets lost in the written word.

That was why the Muslim thing took me aback a bit - because from what I know of you, that ISN'T who or what you are, and it seemed out of character. And I should have done a better job of handling it, obviously.



This Space For Rent!

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:39 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Doctors say the bullet traveled the length of the left side of the Arizona congresswoman's brain, entering the back of the skull and exiting the front.

http://www.timesonline.com/bct_news/news_details/article/1373/2011/jan
uary/09/docs-say-hard-to-predict-brain-damage-in-giffords.html



Entering the BACK of the head and EXITING THE FRONT...

But the alleged shooter was in front of her the entire time, and shot her first.

Where have we heard that before?
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/10/parkland-press-conference-11-
22-63.html



In...


Out...

Back and to the left...
youtube.com/watch?v=9MLc0udf_74




RFK shot point blank from behind, Sirhan Sirhan was only in front with total amnesia...

Many of the dead appear to be due to lack of ambulance service, since there were only 5 ambulances available in the entire county, but 20 victims. Ambulances can only carry 1 body at a time. Gotta keep those foreign shareholders in those trillion-dollar foreign ambulance corporations happy. Too many ambulances would make them sad. No mention of that negligence in the 'news'.

"I had favorite books: The Communist Manifesto."
-Jared Lee Loughner (or his sockpuppet)
www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1


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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Unfortunately, you tend to hit the entire right with proxy fire. 'fucking right wing assholes' and implying the right as a whole is responsible for the attack and are pro-violence.
Well, you haven't been around for very long, so you haven't been around long enough to know that I distinguish between right-wingers. Peeps like Jongsstraw and Ripwash and DT and (to some extent) Anthony are decent people who try to represent their POV honestly, w/o resorting to name-calling, threats, and other crap. It doesn't seem to me that you're the type to stoop to threats and name-calling and innuendo and ranting and other crap that passes for discussion. If I hit you by mistake, I apologize.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

Unfortunately, you tend to hit the entire right with proxy fire. 'fucking right wing assholes' and implying the right as a whole is responsible for the attack and are pro-violence.
Well, you haven't been around for very long, so you haven't been around long enough to know that I distinguish between right-wingers. Peeps like Jongsstraw and Ripwash and DT and (to some extent) Anthony are decent people who try to represent their POV honestly, w/o resorting to name-calling, threats, and other crap. It doesn't seem to me that you're the type to stoop to threats and name-calling and innuendo and ranting and other crap that passes for discussion. If I hit you by mistake, I apologize.



See, Sig doesn't even attempt to address or deny the point of attacking / blaming the Right for this. Instead , what do we get ? No retraction, just a " sorry if you thought I included you " apology.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:59 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Peeps like Jongsstraw and Ripwash and DT and (to some extent) Anthony are decent people




Okay, I have to take issue with that. Anthony is only "to some extent" a decent person? Anthony is THE most unfailingly polite, most unfailingly fair and honest person on these boards, as far as I've ever seen.

This Space For Rent!

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:00 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Turns out the alleged shooter's mommy works for the county government legislature...which is why the newswhores and copsters won't mention his parent's names.
http://www.pima.gov/bos/bos1.html

Just like Columbine, where the jewish shooters' parents were employed by FBI and Pentagon.

Quote:

This is an internal memo obtained by Fox News put out by DHS compiling facts known so far about the case - new - shooter's mother worked for Pima board of supervisers and the suspected anti-Semitic motivation of the shooter.

MEMO:

"The investigation has been taken over by the FBI, and is being run through the Tucson Command Post. Here's what can be confirmed at this time (1800 hrs)... * Gabrielle Giffords Is in ICU.* Federal judge John Roll is deceased. He did rule on a 32 million dollar civil rights lawsuit in February, 2010. That ruling brought death threats to Roll and his family, and for a time he was given a protection detail.* 6 deaths attributed to the shooting. 19 total people hit by gunfire.*

suspect’s mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors*


the suspect has multiple arrests ... But no criminal record? Intervention by someone?* no direct connection - but strong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.* DHS have a list of names and dates of birth of all victims.* the ACTIC is still playing a major role in the investigation...

Computer forensics is cleaning up the surveillance videos, and images from around the scene,

and involved in the investigation - working together, was MCSO, DPS, Phoenix PD, ICE, and of course the FBI. It did just come in from the command post, that the federal judge was Not originally scheduled to attend the meeting, according to wife. She stated that he received a phone call about an hour before and was invited to attend. Wrong place - wrong time. For the planning side, there are impromptu memorials popping up all over the state, but the largest one is downtown phoenix, at the capital."

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/01/gabrielle-giffords-was-shot-b
ecause-she.html



"Cleaning up the videos"... just like the did on 9/11, OKC, JFK and Fort Hood, where nobody was ever allowed to see those videos again.

Quote:

The turning point came in 2001 following a tour of Israel with the American Jewish Committee, she told The Arizona Star in 2007.

"It just cemented the fact that I wanted to spend more time with my own personal, spiritual growth. I felt very committed to Judaism," she said. "Religion means different things to different people. It provides me with grounding, a better understanding of who I came from."

Her wedding to Cmdr. Mark Kelly, an astronaut, was written up in The New York Times. The item noted that a mariachi band played Jewish music and two canopies -- a chupah and one of swords held up by Kelly’s Navy buddies.

“That was Gabby,” Jonathan Rothschild, a longtime friend who served on her campaign’s executive committee, recalled to JTA. “The real irony of this thing is her Judaism is central to her, but she is the kind of person who reaches out to everybody.”

Giffords’ father is Jewish and her mother is a Christian Scientist, and she was raised in both faiths. Her grandfather, Akiba Hornstein, changed his name to Gifford Giffords after moving from New York to Arizona, in part because he did not want his Jewishness to be an issue in unfamiliar territory.

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/01/09/2742463/giffords-known-both
-for-her-openness-and-judaism



When Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon said "We control America" did he mean like....?

Quote:

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
-Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001



45 of the United States Congressmen are Jewish and almost all hold dual citizenship with Israel. Does this worry anyone else?

Senate

(14— 12 Democrats, 2 Independents)
Michael Bennet (D-CO)*
Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
Benjamin Cardin (D-MD)
Russ Feingold (D-WI)
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Al Franken (D-MN)*
Herb Kohl (D-WI)
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Joseph Lieberman (I-CT)
Carl Levin (D-MI)
Bernard Sanders (I-VT)
Charles Schumer (D-NY)
Arlen Specter (D-PA)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)

House

(31— 1 Republican, 30 Democrats)
Gary Ackerman (D-NY)
John H. Adler (D-NJ)*
Shelley Berkley (D-NV)
Howard Berman (D-CA)
Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Stephen Cohen (D-TN)
Susan Davis (D-CA)
Eliot Engel (D-NY)
Bob Filner (D-CA)
Barney Frank (D-MA)
Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ)
Alan Grayson (D-FL)*
Jane Harman (D-CA)
Paul Hodes (D-NH)
Steve Israel (D-NY)
Steve Kagen (D-WI)
Ronald Klein (D-FL)
Sander Levin (D-MI)
Nita Lowey (D-NY)
Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
Jared Polis (D-CO)*
Steve Rothman (D-NJ)
Jan Schakowsky (D-IL)
Adam Schiff (D-CA)
Allyson Schwartz (D-PA)
Brad Sherman (D-CA)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100301180249AAEL99h



"I had favorite books: The Communist Manifesto."
-Jared Lee Loughner (or his sockpuppet)
www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1


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Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:16 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Rappy, you can try to bury your little "choose and perish" statement with a blizzard of off-topic snark, but I really know which side you're on. It was YOUR response I found both offensive and threatening. And coming from a guy who can't even commit to saying whether a flat tax is fair or not... I mean, you're just a little coward who gets all wet when someone does your dirty work. Sorry dude, but if it were possible to have less than zero respect for someone, you would be that person.



He did seem positively giddy about these shootings, didn't he?

"The was has begun," and all that rot.




The what has begun?

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Mike: I meant that Anthony is to some extent a RWer. Sorry for the confusion.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:22 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Happy, I think you missed the part where KKKaney, avowed right-winger and hero to many of the righties around here, said that all the liberals should absolutely be shot. Let's hope I'm not unfairly quoting the right on that one...


Quote:

[about Kwicko's post]

...which I was happy to read, cause it's sometimes difficult to figure out exactly where he stands and what he's saying. This statement efficiently sums that up and I can't really disagree with it.



I appreciate that. Not sure why it's so hard to nail down what I believe or where I stand. I generally stand to the left of center, and I generally like to ask "...and THEN what?" I've long advocated having a Cabinet position for the "Department of And Then What?"

People like to live in black and white; they don't like to face the greys of reality. I'm the guy in the grey suit, battling the absolute. :)

This Space For Rent!





I'm no right-winger, but i do feel all libtards should be shot. And I hope this liberal pig-whore dies. I'd hate to see a perfectly good bullet wasted. And it's just my opinion...which I have a right to. The only way I'd be happier is if she was black.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:40 AM

HARDWARE


Larry Correia may have made the best statement about the incident and the MSM's reaction to it.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/understanding-media-or-wh
y-are-you-right-wingers-so-filled-with-hate
/

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
Larry Correia may have made the best statement about the incident and the MSM's reaction to it.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/understanding-media-or-wh
y-are-you-right-wingers-so-filled-with-hate
/

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.



This crystallizes the dichotomy and hypocracy of the Left, brilliantly.

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE

Making a movie about the assassination of George Bush = ART





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:03 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


coming out of lurk mode for a moment...


who cares what the motives of the shooter were...

does his affiliations really matter ?


a quick look at Gabrielle Giffords career,

she twice voted for more money to the Iraq war

she is in thick with the AIPAC crowd, and is quoted as " Committed to unbreakable U.S.-Israel bond.

she is a member of the Armed Services, and Foreign Affairs committees.

supports US policy is Afghanistan and Pakistan


Hell, she has plenty of blood on her hands, and appears deserving of the result.

Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot.

I'd feel bad about the nine year old, but then again I wonder how many nine year old have been wasted by US drone strikes. Guess the bystanders shouldn't have been standing so close to the criminal.


Hopefully this event inspires some folk... maybe they will get Cheney next.


Well maybe I'll lurk again in a few months, or if more good news occurs...




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Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:17 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The war has begun.



Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:

Fucking right-wing assholes.



Quote:

Originally posted by Kaneman:

I'm no right-winger, but i do feel all libtards should be shot. And I hope this liberal pig-whore dies.




Quote:

Originally posted by Ginobiffaroni:

Hell, she has plenty of blood on her hands, and appears deserving of the result.

Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot.





You're all nuts. And those that justify and even advocate murder are without human redemption.












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Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:18 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


This crystallizes the dichotomy and hypocracy of the Left, brilliantly.

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE.



Why does a big, ineffectual government set a violent and dangerous tone. I don't see the link. Surely, if the government is big and ineffective, its big and ineffective. It's people who find that an affront akin to having Pol Pot as a leader that set the violent and dangerous tone by calling for armed revolution and resistance simply because they find themselves on the other side of political fence from that which was making policy.

I've posted with Americans on several different boards now for the past 7 or so years. The hard line rhetoric has come almost exclusively from the right, the far right as I see it, at least where I have posted. The kind of views that initially supported wars of venegence on Iraq and Afghanistan for 9/11, who supported torture, indefinite incarceration, suspension of habeus corpus, who divided the world into us and them, you are with us or against us.

Those same people have called for violence, even on these boards, not because of any of the above....no, all those outrages are fine, what really gets them steamed up is a policy which would provide basic healthcare for the population. Oh yes, that's the kind of moral outrage that would make them march to washington.

The left, the left feel like the moderates to me, the ones who are trying to keep a sane voice in amongst a roar of insane ones.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:36 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Angry rhetoric brings US to the brink
Matt Bai
January 10, 2011

COMMENT

WITHIN minutes of the first reports that Arizona Democrat Gabrielle Giffords and a score of people with her had been shot in Tucson, pages began disappearing from the web.

One was Sarah Palin's infamous ''cross-hairs'' map from last year, which showed a series of contested congressional districts, including Giffords's, with gun targets trained on them. Another was from Daily Kos, the liberal blog, where one of the congresswoman's apparently liberal constituents declared her ''dead to me'' after Giffords voted against Nancy Pelosi in House leadership elections.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Odds are pretty good that neither of these - nor any other isolated bit of imagery - had much to do with the shooting in Tucson. But scrubbing them from the internet couldn't erase all evidence of the rhetorical recklessness that permeates our political moment. The question is whether Saturday's shooting marks the logical end point of such a moment - or the beginning of a terrifying new one.

Modern America has endured such moments before. The intense ideological clashes of the 1960s, centred on communism and civil rights and Vietnam, were marked by a series of assassinations that changed the course of American history, carried out against a backdrop of urban riots and self-immolating war protesters.

During the culture wars of the 1990s, fought over issues such as gun rights and abortion, right-wing extremists killed 168 people in Oklahoma City, terrorised hundreds in an Atlanta park and at abortion clinics in the South.

What's different about this moment is the emergence of a political culture - on blogs and Twitter and cable TV - that so loudly reinforces the dark visions of political extremists, often for profit or political gain.

It wasn't clear whether the alleged shooter in Tucson was motivated by any political philosophy, or by voices in his head, or perhaps by both. But it's hard not to think he was at least partly influenced by a debate that seems to conflate philosophical disagreement with a political Armageddon.

The problem here doesn't lie with activists like most of those who populate the Tea parties, ordinary citizens in conversation about the country's direction. Rather, the problem seems to rest with political leaders who pander to the margins of the margins, employing whatever words seem likely to win contributions or TV time, with little regard for the consequences.

Consider the comments of Sharron Angle, the Tea Party favourite who ran for the Senate in Nevada last year. She talked about ''domestic enemies'' in the Congress and said, ''I hope we're not getting to second amendment remedies'' (a reference to the constitutional right to bear arms).

Then there's Rick Barber, a Republican loser in an Alabama congressional race, but not before airing an ad in which someone dressed as George Washington listens to an attack on the Obama agenda and proclaims, ''Gather your armies''.

In fact, much of the message among Republicans last year, as they sought to exploit the Tea Party phenomenon, centred on this imagery of armed revolution. It's not that such leaders are trying to incite violence or hysteria; in fact, they're not. It's more that they are so caught up in a culture of hyperbole, so amused with their own verbal flourishes, that - like the bloggers and TV hosts to whom they cater - they seem to lose their hold on the power of words.

Contrast that with one of John McCain's finer moments as a candidate in 2008, when a woman at a Minnesota meeting asserted that Barack Obama was a closeted Arab. ''No, ma'am, he's not,'' Senator McCain quickly replied, taking back the microphone. ''He's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with.''

The pressing question is where this all ends - whether we re-evaluate the piercing pitch of our political debate or whether we are hurtling unstoppably into a frightening period more like the late 1960s.

Tucson will either be the tragedy that brought us back from the brink, or the first in a series of gruesome memories to come.

NEW YORK TIMES


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Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:44 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


This crystallizes the dichotomy and hypocracy of the Left, brilliantly.

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE.



Why does a big, ineffectual government set a violent and dangerous tone. I don't see the link. Surely, if the government is big and ineffective, its big and ineffective. It's people who find that an affront akin to having Pol Pot as a leader that set the violent and dangerous tone by calling for armed revolution and resistance simply because they find themselves on the other side of political fence from that which was making policy.

I've posted with Americans on several different boards now for the past 7 or so years. The hard line rhetoric has come almost exclusively from the right, the far right as I see it, at least where I have posted. The kind of views that initially supported wars of venegence on Iraq and Afghanistan for 9/11, who supported torture, indefinite incarceration, suspension of habeus corpus, who divided the world into us and them, you are with us or against us.

Those same people have called for violence, even on these boards, not because of any of the above....no, all those outrages are fine, what really gets them steamed up is a policy which would provide basic healthcare for the population. Oh yes, that's the kind of moral outrage that would make them march to washington.

The left, the left feel like the moderates to me, the ones who are trying to keep a sane voice in amongst a roar of insane ones.




Go read the link dumbass. What policy is giving Americans basic healthcare to the population. You have to buy it dumbass.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot.



That's one of the more hateful, tasteless non PN remarks I think I've ever seen on FFF.NEt




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:59 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


True. It's up there with

The war has begun.


Choose or perish.

in terms of a response to a fatal shooting.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:09 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

*Why does a big, ineffectual government set a violent and dangerous tone. I don't see the link. Surely, if the government is big and ineffective, its big and ineffective. It's people who find that an affront akin to having Pol Pot as a leader that set the violent and dangerous tone by calling for armed revolution and resistance simply because they find themselves on the other side of political fence from that which was making policy.

I've posted with Americans on several different boards now for the past 7 or so years. The hard line rhetoric has come almost exclusively from the right, the far right as I see it, at least where I have posted. The kind of views that initially supported wars of venegence on Iraq and Afghanistan for 9/11, who supported torture, indefinite incarceration, suspension of habeus corpus, who divided the world into us and them, you are with us or against us.

Those same people have called for violence, even on these boards, not because of any of the above....no, all those outrages are fine, what really gets them steamed up is a policy which would provide basic healthcare for the population. Oh yes, that's the kind of moral outrage that would make them march to washington.

The left, the left feel like the moderates to me, the ones who are trying to keep a sane voice in amongst a roar of insane ones.



You didn't read the full link, or even the part I posted, did you ?

It's a contrast in how the MSM treats the Left and the Right

On the one hand, you have....

Quote:


Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE



but on the other hand, you have...

Quote:

Making a movie about the assassination of George Bush = ART


The Left can tolerate the murdering of a President, provided it's Bush, and call it " art " . But people standing up for their constitutional rights ? Why, that's HATE speech! Dangerous and violent tones !

* Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.

- quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson.



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:14 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

she twice voted for more money to the Iraq war

she is in thick with the AIPAC crowd, and is quoted as " Committed to unbreakable U.S.-Israel bond.

supports US policy is Afghanistan and Pakistan

Hell, she has plenty of blood on her hands, and appears deserving of the result.

I'd feel bad about the nine year old, but then again I wonder how many nine year old have been wasted by US drone strikes.



I think it's very patriotic to support the nation that massacred the USS Liberty, then tried to blame the A-Rabs.





















"The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; a mode of government by terror or intimidation."
-Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
True. It's up there with

The war has begun.


Choose or perish.

in terms of a response to a fatal shooting.



Again, you miss the point. My remarks were in response to " fucking right wing assholes " and the hyper over reaction to Palin's ' hit list' and those trying to connect non existent dots. It absolutely wasn't in response to multiple deaths and woundings by a whacked out nut case.

Seriously, some of you have the brains of a turnip.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:23 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


No, I didn't read the link. It wasn't clear that you were quoting from that link. In any event, nNow I have, it wasn't very illuminating. Another angry, badly written rant from a right winger who feels, oh that's right ANGRY. The emotion of the day.

I get people's right to protest, I really do. It's just that the rhetoric of the right has become more and more laced with violent undertones. And over what? They didn't like democrat policy. Well, I never.

I wonder if any of those people protested the useless wars that killed thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans. Did they protest when Bush sanctioned torture, when the Bush government implemented policies of rendition, indefinite incarceration without trial, when US soldiers carried out sanctioned abuses of prisoners.


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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:28 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Magonsdaughter wrote:
Sunday, January 09, 2011 14:23
No, I didn't read the link. It wasn't clear that you were quoting from that link. In any event, nNow I have, it wasn't very illuminating. Another angry, badly written rant from a right winger who feels, oh that's right ANGRY. The emotion of the day.


Yes. Damn right, they're angry. Because when the Gov't isn't listening to the people, and continues to ignore their wishes, folks get angry.

Quote:


I get people's right to protest, I really do. It's just that the rhetoric of the right has become more and more laced with violent undertones. And over what? They didn't like democrat policy. Well, I never.



Because the gov't continued to ignore the people. But you're over hyping the 'violent undertones' bit.

Quote:


I wonder if any of those people protested the useless wars that killed thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans. Did they protest when Bush sanctioned torture, when the Bush government implemented policies of rendition, indefinite incarceration without trial, when US soldiers carried out sanctioned abuses of prisoners.



The water boarding saved lives. If you think that's 'torture', or a bad thing, tough.
The terrorists got treated far FAR better than they treated our soldiers, or those in the WTC towers. Bush treated the terrorists better than they deserved.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:39 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot....

Well maybe I'll lurk again in a few months, or if more good news occurs...

I am so sorry for asking. I don't know you well enough to know if you are being sarcastic, or if you are serious. I'm just wondering. Thanks.

If someone were to advocate this position seriously, it would imply the "good" thing to do is to kill every legislator who voted the same votes to keep the wars going. I can't imagine anyone advocating that seriously.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:41 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Yes. Damn right, they're angry. Because when the Gov't isn't listening to the people, and continues to ignore their wishes, folks get angry.


The government was voted in by people. If people don't like what the government does, they get to vote. Sometimes you don't get the government of your choice, that sucks, but its how things happen in a democracy.

Quote:


Because the gov't continued to ignore the people. But you're over hyping the 'violent undertones' bit.


No, the people who demonstrated don't like and agree with the governments policy. But there will be people who DO agree with those policies. If the government loses the support of the majority of the people, they'll be voted out. That's how things happen in a democracy.

Quote:


The water boarding saved lives. If you think that's 'torture', or a bad thing, tough.
The terrorists got treated far FAR better than they treated our soldiers, or those in the WTC towers. Bush treated the terrorists better than they deserved.


Ah yes, thank god only bad people get tortured, because torturing bad people for information is okay So as long as you are not bad, you'll be okay, you have nothing to fear. No problems with handing that power to governments, to decide who is good and bad, who deserves torture and who doesn't, who deserves death. Talk about handing them the ULTIMATE power over people.

The creed of every truly tyrannical government.



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Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:43 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The terrorists got treated far FAR better than they treated our soldiers, or those in the WTC towers. Bush treated the terrorists better than they deserved.

What about "terrorists" who turn out not to be terrorists?

What about Dilawar who was killed at Bagram, for example?

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Dilawar_%28human_rights
_victim%29


Quote:

It would be many months before Army investigators learned that most of the interrogators had in fact believed Mr. Dilawar to be an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.




Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 3:10 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot....

Well maybe I'll lurk again in a few months, or if more good news occurs...

I am so sorry for asking. I don't know you well enough to know if you are being sarcastic, or if you are serious. I'm just wondering. Thanks.

If someone were to advocate this position seriously, it would imply the "good" thing to do is to kill every legislator who voted the same votes to keep the wars going. I can't imagine anyone advocating that seriously.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.




Completely Serious


In a just world people are legally and morally held to account for their decisions and how those decisions effect others.

In a perfect world, the collective leadership of the US would find itself under investigation / prosecution before the International Criminal Court.

Hmm Not going to happen.

Many on this board have said in the past that voting isn't going to solve anything. The fix is in, it doesn't matter who gets elected you have the same thing. Obama is proof of that, so no possibility for change that way either.


If the only way to hold your " legislators " accountable is to treat them in exactly the same fashion your government treats those opposing it around the world... then good luck to those doing the shooting. They vote money to criminal actions, then they are deserving of what they receive, until such time we have a different way to resolve these issues.



But anyway, back to the occasional Lurk

No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it.

Theodore Roosevelt

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 3:26 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Hmm.

Firstoff, I think it'd odd that in between the obvious crazy, it's actually PN whos offered the most hard-information content in this thread (discarding the obvious bunk), and what does THAT say, I ask you ?

Secondly, and this specifically to Hero - if I am so "crazy" and yet, have a history of being utterly correct in most assessments of a situation, often right down to chapter and verse, as opposed to the "sane", then you really need to either revisit your worldview, or come to terms with the fact that if the lunatics are right, there's something seriously fucked up about our world, and maybe go see to doin something about it.

Besides, that kinda crazy is a myth, same as when a kid points out obvious flaws in our society we train ourselves to never see, never speak of, never address - and then we go and call it a "distorted worldview" and label them mentally ill, then try to medicate them into acceptance of the lies we tell ourselves in order to avoid facing unpleasant realities.

Seeing the world as it is, that ain't crazy - the crazies are the ones who blind themselves to realities they do not have the courage to face, folk like this nutter who thought shooting one of the few politicians who *did* leave their ivory tower and try to talk to people would accomplish anything, folk like the nutters who think the dog and pony show of a courtroom actually MEANS anything but one side outguns the other...
THAT, is crazy.

Oh, and Mikey - the position of "Department of AND THEN WHAT?" is filled, get yer own cabinet post!


And FYI, I happen to know Larry, hell, I've touted his MHI books more than once - doesn't mean I agree with his politics, cause in that respect he's something of an ass and allows partisanship to blind him to plain reality, but then a damned lot of people do that, from every single direction of the political spectrum.

As to the shooting itself, it kind of appalls me a mite that no one shot back, as Arizona isn't as hostile to CCW as most states, but then again this was a crowded shopping mall parking lot and it's quite likely anyone who was packing didn't have a clean shot or was more focused on getting people into cover and safe, which I can completely understand - some folk *did* tackle his ass and disarm him, mind you, an act of personal heroism which has been completely overlooked by everyone else within this discussion, and I find that a mite offensive.
Quote:

Ms. Patricia Maisch was at the event, in the rear of the line, waiting to take a photograph with Congresswoman Giffords when the suspect began shooting. When the suspect tried to load a fresh magazine into his weapon, Ms. Maisch was able to grab the bottom of the magazine and prevent it from being inserted. This pause in shooting allowed for two men, Roger Salzgeber and Bill D. Badger, to tackle the suspect to the ground and restrain him until deputies arrived. An additional male, Joseph Zamudio, also assisted in restraining the suspect’s legs. Initial information reported Ms. Maisch was injured during the event. This information was inaccurate and she did not report having any injuries.

It doesn't necessarily TAKE a firearm (although in many situations it helps) to stop an incident of this nature, but rather someone taking an opportunity presented, as they did here.

Credit where it's due, these peoples actions prevented further casualties, and that should be respected.
Also creditable is the Official Response, which came within 3.5 minutes of the initial 911 call, bagged up the suspect at 4.5 minutes, and was initiating first aid and trauma response within 5 minutes.

You know, people, bullets don't give a fuck about someones politics when they're in the air, and the time to think about that sorta thing is before someone puts em there.

But then, what do I know, I'm just one of the crazy-talkers, right ?


-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, January 9, 2011 3:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

Completely Serious




Congresswoman, wife to astronaut, mother of 2 survives....

Much to the chagrin of Gino.


There are some ugly, classless folks in the world. Sadly, you're one of them.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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