Public Education by TheHappyTrader

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Public Education

POSTED BY: THEHAPPYTRADER
UPDATED: Friday, September 16, 2022 10:24
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Sunday, November 21, 2010 7:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Do you believe in ancient aliens?
I don't have enough data to defend a position either for or against aliens, ancient or otherwise.

In other words, I don't know.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

Well, you do live at ground zero in the ancient alien theory. I have no opinion on the issue myself. I just find the programs on tv about it entertaining......And they always go back to peru for proof....

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Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:52 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Using computers with a teacher present is an excellent idea. Computers and technology have become integrated into every occupation and we should prepare them for that. I just worry it's only a matter of time before some genius decides, "we don't really need the teachers, the computers do most of the work. Let's fire the teachers to save money."

Also, a computer will never teach some subjects (like art, music, dance...) as well as a teacher can. Not that the folks in charge of our schools seem to care about a cultured education. That's not on the standardized test...

That's great that your kids are taking initiative and learning things on their own! My eight year old brother has been googling information information on snakes and wild cats lately. The computer is a wonderful resource and should enhance learning, but should not replace the teacher.

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Sunday, November 21, 2010 10:30 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Very cool. Let us know when part 2 comes out, will ya?

From the Huff-N-Puff post, a site I ain't too fond of, but they did carry the interview...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-kim/rethink-interview-cevin-s_b
_439460.html

Quote:
I read that the War On Kids is one of a two-part series. What can we expect in the second film?

Part two documents the way American society regards children through the implementation of curfews, corporal punishment, the anti-Rave act, reform schools, exclusion from public spaces, and scapegoating by the media. As disturbing as the War on Kids may be, part two will be much worse. By and large, people who work in school mean well or like to project the appearance as such. Outside of school, the levels of intolerance are profound, but go unnoticed.

He's not kiddin about the worse, although in order to make it even tolerable to watch, there's actually VERY little of our material they could even use - again, there's things in this world that just the KNOWING of, can hurt you.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, November 21, 2010 11:58 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
And they always go back to peru for proof....

Certainly there are a lot of mysteries here. But I wouldn't know what the answers are.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:26 PM

DREAMTROVE

Happy

Not just teachers, but peers.

Here's an atypical one: I was working on a research project for a graduate class on cybernetics. I'd been trying to solve the problem using neurochemistry and had hit a stone wall. I handed the problem to a ten year old black kid in the neighborhood. He said it was a molecular biophysics problem and worked out the solution in about ten minutes. I knew he didn't go to school, so I asked him where he learned that. "I watch a lot of TV" he said. That would be discovery, the learning channel, etc.

So, It's not always as clear cut a social structure as we think. His solution was a workable one, of course. He had inserted into the design a small gadget with synthetic nanosenors which would bind to the NTs I was using and transfer them into a fiberoptic signal, that could then be relocated to a similar device anywhere in the body, in this case, below a synaptic break.

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Monday, November 22, 2010 2:42 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
From the Huff-N-Puff post, a site I ain't too fond of,

Just out of curiosity, why aren't you fond of it?

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Monday, November 22, 2010 2:45 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Here's an atypical one: I was working on a research project for a graduate class on cybernetics. I'd been trying to solve the problem using neurochemistry and had hit a stone wall. I handed the problem to a ten year old black kid in the neighborhood. He said it was a molecular biophysics problem and worked out the solution in about ten minutes. I knew he didn't go to school, so I asked him where he learned that. "I watch a lot of TV" he said. That would be discovery, the learning channel, etc.

That is an extraordinary story! Wow.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Monday, November 22, 2010 5:19 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Just out of curiosity, why aren't you fond of it?

Cause they're on many an occasion fulla shit, and let thier biases blind them to a degree I find repulsive - not the least of which is cause when they actually do a story well, it's not as credible cause everyone KNOWS this, you see ?

Same as how everyone with a bloody clue knows smoking is harmful, but when some anti-org comes up with a blatantly loaded, unscientific study and then makes false claims on top of it - regardless of having an obvious point, they've fucked up their credibility to where they're just harming their own cause - which is even more accellerated when folks who've been told what they wanna hear quit caring about the facts and start ripping into anyone who points out the errors and the flaws.

This happens on any issue or end of the political spectrum - I am emphatically *NOT* welcome to comment on most Anarchist 'Zines for this very reason, so it's not just Fox News which does this shit, it's all and every, here and there, and the Huff-N-Puff is kinda notorious for it.

All that said, back to the topic at hand, here's a right damned interesting article, but it's a bit of a long read.

The Shadow Scholar
http://chronicle.com/article/article-content/125329

Thing is, everyone KNOWS this goes on, college is just a join-the-club fee anyway, buying your way into a higher social rank in much the same fashion officers once had to buy their commissions - again, I call our society neo-feudalism for a REASON, cause it really IS.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, November 22, 2010 6:03 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Frem, thanks for that link to The Shadow Scholar. What an eye opener that is.

Agreed on the neo-feudalism, right down to renting our own property with property taxes.

--Can't Take (my gorram) Sky

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:14 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Some citizens expect their schools to teach their children, the Public Schools fail at this - your claim is that teaching is not the function or responsibility of Public Schools. This argues in favor of School Voucher: give us back our money so we can put it to good use.

Public Schools have no interest in teaching because it's "free", the money is paid to "higher education" so the 13 years of public school is just the time-waster to channel children to college/tech school where graduates cannot even accomplish what 8th graders in other countries (or even our own schools of a century ago) already do.

Problem number one with Public Education: Teachers Unions.

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 1:20 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Some citizens expect their schools to teach their children, the Public Schools fail at this - your claim is that teaching is not the function or responsibility of Public Schools. This argues in favor of School Voucher: give us back our money so we can put it to good use.

Public Schools have no interest in teaching because it's "free", the money is paid to "higher education" so the 13 years of public school is just the time-waster to channel children to college/tech school where graduates cannot even accomplish what 8th graders in other countries (or even our own schools of a century ago) already do.

Problem number one with Public Education: Teachers Unions.

What the shit are you talking about? First off, I never claimed the public school shouldn't teach. Citizen's should expect their schools to teach their children and schools should be able to expect citizens to raise their own gorram children! But, that's in a perfect world where every class room has working equipment, textbooks that aren't ten years old, and eager bright eyed students ready to learn everything we can throw at them. Teacher's should teach. It's hard, there's several things we don't have any control over (like them being yanked out of our class for tutoring in another, or issues with the students personal lives, etc...) but it's part of our job and we do the best we can with what's available.

I knew going into my major that I'd have loans disproportionate to my starting salary with a Bachelor's Degree, but I was, and still am for the moment, an idealist. An idealist, but not a miracle worker. You give us a starting salary that can qualify us for food stamps, tie our hands with red tape, ask us to be social workers and parents to hundreds of students in addition to our normal duties, overfill our classes, cut our planning periods, cut or eliminate our budget so we rely on fund raising and booster organizations... and then complain when we fall behind other countries where teachers get better respect, better pay and don't teach children of all socioeconomic backgrounds in the same place. You know, if we handpicked all the wealthy children and only took them to certain schools, I'll bet those schools would do better overall... Oh wait a minute, we do! It's called private schools. And the occasional magnet school...

Of course our public schools aren't perfect, but it's not for lack of trying. People seem to forget that there are two sides to the teacher student relationship. The student is limited by how much the teacher can teach just as the teacher is limited by how much time and effort the student will put into their own education. I'm not trying to blame the students, but I want to make the point that a teacher can do everything 'right' and still get poor results if the student doesn't put much effort into their own education, perhaps because they're parents have told them all teachers are lazy idiots or maybe they have a bad family situation. If they are being abused, starving, or neglected, learning biology probably isn't high on their list of priorities...

Okay, I feel a bit better now that I've let off some steam, sorry for the rant. I can only assume the post was born of ignorance. I did my student teaching in a title I school (meaning they statically have students of the lowest family incomes) and these teachers were not lazy, were not greedy. Most of them were overworked and underpaid saints! You'd be surprised how many extra hours (unpaid, totally at the teacher's expense) are put into some of these schools. The school itself was like a family in that respect, irritating as hell, but they pulled together to make the most of what we had. I admit, it is possible I was lucky enough to learn at one of the better title I schools. I've heard horror stories before about things like weapons and drugs being brought into the poorer schools.

My biggest problem with the public schools right now is that they are too focused on the "all-mighty standardized test" and seem to care less about giving the students a well rounded education with art, P.E. and music. If they believed those subjects were more important, I might have been able to find a full time teaching job rather then teaching a few classes funded by the Century 21 grant... but I'm doing well enough to get by, and that's more than some folks.

I can't really comment on teachers unions. I am not a member of one and don't know much about them, but I'm not a big fan of unions in general.

Fortunately, my last few classes have gone pretty well. On bad days, attitudes like that make me wonder why I even try so hard to teach well. Makes we want be like "F@#K this job! I'm going back to school for 2 years and I'll become a nurse."

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Wednesday, November 24, 2010 3:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Not ignorance, Happy - were it so, Rappy would have posted that under his own name.

If you cannot say something without resorting to JSF, Rappy, maybe you shouldn't say it at all.

-F

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Thursday, November 25, 2010 7:52 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Not ignorance, on my part.
My maternal grandmother was a teacher. Her sister was a teacher. My maternal grandfather's 3 sisters-in-law were teachers. My paternal grandmother was a RN and nurse trainer/teacher. Two of her sisters were teachers. My paternal grandfather was a professor, as well as his brother. My paternal aunt was a T/A in Zoology. My Maternal aunt was a teacher, and her daughter was runner-up for the Teacher in Space application process (winner was Christa McAuliffe), and her husband is a teacher. My brother is a teacher. His wife is a teacher. My other brother has all his kids home-schooled.
All went to public schools except my brother's kids.

Since you seem to be confused, I have quoted your post for you to refer to.

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I was having a chat with a teacher friend, much older and more experienced than me, who made a very interesting comment concerning what's wrong with our public schools. The Answer...

Nothing.

There is nothing wrong with our public schools, they are doing exactly what they have been designed for, training children to behave themselves, follow directions and become productive members of the work force. The schools are just fine, but they are obsolete. The workforce is in other countries. People expect the schools to prepare students for college but that's just not how they work. Also, it's silly expect every student to prepare for college when most of them will not be attending it.

As a new teacher, I found this perspective very interesting. As a music guy, I'm not as regulated or interfered with as the others, but I'm also not as hired. Still, at least I get to remain an idealist within my subject area, a part-time idealists, but an idealist none the less.

Anyhow, what are some of your thoughts on education, what's wrong, what's right, how can it be improved, etc...

Your statement, attributed to your friend, states schools are designed to teach a bunch of functions which most people recognize as parental concerns. Mention of math, reading, comprehension, writing, history, science, physical fitness, economics are absent from your list, indicating that your school's teachers had abdicated their mission which is what the students were attending for to begin with. Your title was not parent, yet you complain about performing the parental duties while trying to take credit for doing these same tasks, and your friend seems to think that's all he's there for. Your title is teacher, you should teach instead of playing primarily a parent.

You bemoan the lack of respect and deference for teachers, yet once upon a time teachers were respected and valued, and you have failed to realize that the teachers have reaped what they sow, their lack of respect reflects the level of respect they have come to deserve. You as a new teacher are less at fault, but your friend exemplifies the worst attitudes of public school teachers, clearly displaying why teachers are no longer held in higher regard, but the lower regard they have worked towards.

Sorry to burst your bubble. Your post indicated you wanted input/feedback. You didn't say you wanted it sugar-coated or non-critical feedback only.

People are not expecting their children to be prepared to attend a college where graduates cannot be guaranteed to be literate (meaning that college graduates those who cannot even read, let alone perform rudimentary math skills.) Parents are expecting students to be graduating high school as literates, capable of performing tasks that the same level of education achieved decades ago, and even what colleges graduates of the past could perform. Knowing that today's college graduates cannot achieve the skills that high school grad from decades ago could performs shows just how much of a failure public schools and their teachers have become.

Another major problem with Public Schools and their teachers: acceptance of failure.

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Thursday, November 25, 2010 1:45 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

I didn't mention math, science, etc... because I thought that was kinda obvious. That was my bad, I was trying to make the point that perhaps schools are doing an okay job at teaching just enough math, English, etc, for a student to function in the workplace but perhaps not so much on the college preperation.

Then I was wondering, if most students will not be attending college, should the schools be concerned with it? Of course, I would perfer all students were prepared for higher education so they would all have that option available to them, but is that an efficient use of resources and the right thing to focus on?

You are right in that I did ask for opinions, and I never specified that I wanted them to be constructive. I suppose teachers suck is as legitimate a comment as any... I'd perfer some kind of suggestions or hypothesis concerning what's wrong and what might make it better. I don't think teachers not caring on account of it being 'free' is remotely accurate, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I'm kinda young and don't remember a time when teachers were well respected. Might be I've not seen enough to see the big picture accurately. We have national standards now that are supposed to focus our lessons towards the skills recognized as beig most universally important. May things lime that will help, or maybe they'll make things worse. Only time will tell I 'spect but I really wish they wouldn't neglect art, music, and other classes just because they aren't on the standardized test. I agree woh you that this toleration of failure is a serious problem, perhaps at the root of all our problems, as a country, outside of education.

I apologize for any spelling or grammer errors, I'm postiong from a mobile device.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2022 5:05 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Democrats demand examples of CRT, Common Core, SEL in rejected math books — Florida delivers!

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/04/22/democrats-demand-examples-of-c
rt-common-core-sel-in-rejected-math-books-florida-delivers-1228862/

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Tuesday, May 3, 2022 6:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Democrats demand examples of CRT, Common Core, SEL in rejected math books — Florida delivers!

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/04/22/democrats-demand-examples-of-c
rt-common-core-sel-in-rejected-math-books-florida-delivers-1228862/

If Bobby stole Kenny's apple and kicked Jose in the nuts, how many racisims has Bobby committed?

None. Bobby is black and is higher on the Oppression Pyramid than white Kenny and Mexican Jose.

Bobby deserves that apple, Kenny's great-great-great grandfather made Bobby's great-great-great grandfather pick apples and Jose probably had it coming to him anyway.

--------------------------------------------------

Me: "Remember Covid?"

Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"

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Thursday, June 16, 2022 7:43 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Scholars spend $500K in taxpayer funds to deconstruct whiteness in physics

https://www.thecollegefix.com/scholars-spend-500k-in-taxpayer-funds-to
-deconstruct-whiteness-in-physics/

'this endeavor is actually an important step toward the larger undertaking of freeing students and professors alike from the weighty fetters of whiteness. Funded through a $495,847 National Science Foundation grant, researchers Amy Robertson and W. Tali Hairston aim “to develop a knowledge base that could lead to awareness of how power relations may be embedded in the way physics is taught and learned.”'

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Thursday, June 16, 2022 9:58 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Scholars spend $500K in taxpayer funds to deconstruct whiteness in physics

Or how to waste half a million US taxpayer dollars in the blink of an eye.

--------------------------------------------------

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Friday, September 16, 2022 10:24 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Academy High School

Common-Core-Clownworld Perceptions? Maywood California.

$69,000 bail

https://files.catbox.moe/f94lov.mp4

Another older news media clips showed the student throwing a basketball at the teacher

international news

'Rightwingers threaten legal action on Biden’s student loan debt relief'
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/16/biden-student-loan-debt-
forgiveness-republicans-legal-action

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