All Browncoats labeled mentally ill by DSM4 by piratenews

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All Browncoats labeled mentally ill by DSM4

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POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:16
SHORT URL: http://goo.gl/tX8fc
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Wednesday, October 20, 2010 6:27 AM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

The DSM-IV-TR Manual labels free thinkers, non conformers, civil disobedient advocates, those that question authority, and people considered hostile toward the government (aka Oath keepers and local militias) as mentally ill with the illness titled “oppositional defiant disorder” or ODD.

http://offthegridnews.com/2010/10/08/is-free-thinking-a-mental-illness/

http://uswgo.com/confirmed-psychiatric-manual-dsm-iv-tr-labels-free-th
inkers-non-conformers-as-mentally-ill.htm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/39441533/3-Pages-of-the-eBook-of-Diagnostic-
and-Statistical-Manual-of-Mental-Disorders-DSM-IV-TR-Fourth-Edition

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Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:00 AM

BYTEMITE

I dunno. It kinda only applies if some of us are children, also kleptomaniacs or completely dismissive of social standards of conduct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_Defiant_Disorder

I mean, in some ways definitely this is categorizing what might be normal childhood behaviour in order to recommend medication.

On the other hand, many of the symptoms described are similar to a childhood version of antisocial disorder/sociopathy, especially in the magnitude I I'm understanding from this reading.

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Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:28 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Obviously you don't have a lot of experience with kids...

Trust me, if you find me a kid who DOESN'T meet the criteria for ODD, I'll show a kid there's something seriously, seriously WRONG with.

To paraphrase Heinlen.
"Children, like butterflies, need no excuse."

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:32 AM

BYTEMITE

chronic theft? vandalism? pyromania? bullying? I dunno. Those don't seem THAT normal.

But then, I'm really not sure why they need some fancy new phrase for childhood antisocial disorder when there's, you know, childhood antisocial disorder.

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Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:42 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Stupid server hiccups, *hic* !

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Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:42 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Huh ? Obviously they musta changed the diagnosis or something - can't verify cause Wiki seems to have taken a dive or something.

From other sources...

Quote:
A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least six months during which four or more of the following are present:
1. Often loses temper
2. often argues with adults
3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
4. often deliberately annoys people
5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
7. is often angry and resentful
8. is often spiteful and vindictive
The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

That's the checklist-definition that many schools use as an excuse to foist medication, but honestly, that's ANY child - cause again, you find me a kid who doesn't meet those specs, and I assure you there is something badly, badly wrong with em.

And yeah, verily, doing a medical diagnosis from a fucking checklist provided by people trying to sell some psychoactive drug is the very definition of medical malpractice and we damn well oughta prosecute it.

ETA: ok, was a server hiccup, I see wiki doesn't list that checklist, but on follow up, a note to this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduct_disorder#Lack_of_empathy

This is a LEARNED RESPONSE - people are not born like that, this is conditioning, the same way police officers will pull the trigger of a Taser unit repeatedly even when the suspect is subdued, it's a learned, conditioned response from HAVING that behavior rewarded...

And who rewards it ?

We do, our fucked up society does, reinforcing in in a thousand tiny ways every day most of us don't even notice - but alas, I've run short of time and have to get back downtown for somethin, anyhow, you know where I stand with that.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:07 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least six months during which four or more of the following are present:
1. Often loses temper
2. often argues with adults
3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
4. often deliberately annoys people
5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
7. is often angry and resentful
8. is often spiteful and vindictive
The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

And that, I'll agree, is definitely not aberrant enough to warrant a psychological diagnosis. Though I have question about the "significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning." Does that mean that the kid is always or usually like that?

It's kind of like ADD, and supposedly the two disorders are related. ADD is overdiagnosed. FAR too often. But there's some kids, they say they really can't concentrate for long periods of time, they get a buzzing feeling in their heads. Adults get it too. And I've seen kids who are rambunctious and hard to settle down because the buzzing, and who also are rude and temperamental, and they really DON'T act like other kids.

So yeah, I agree that the diagnoses like to be as general as possible to sell drugs not just to people who need it, but people who don't. But that doesn't mean there might be certain conditions where there really is a problem.

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Wednesday, October 20, 2010 3:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Though I have question about the "significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning." Does that mean that the kid is always or usually like that?

That depends on who you ask, and I'm pretty sure you're well aware that for most adults "They don't do what they're told!" is sufficient criteria.

Most of these diagnostics are left deliberately vague in order to allow a doctor leeway to use their own judgement, but with the advent of big pharmas slush money in the process, how trustworthy their judgement is anymore is a matter of some debate - hell, my doctor of record is good enough for scratch and dent, but he's always, ALWAYS trying really hard to push whichever wonder drug he's currently getting bankroll from - seriously, what part of a sprained knee requires a cholesterol screening, especially when the patients vital signs are on the low side of average, steady as a rock, and no dietary or weight issues are present ?
(I wadded up his referral and pitched it out the window.)

As for overdiagnosis, not only is that a problem, but doctors all too often run to the pill bottle instead of having a look at possible secondary causes - just how long has the US been in complete denial about the effect of food colorings and/or additives on child behavior, and yet despite plenty of evidence from the studies that have been done, mostly over the water, they still choose to medicate symptoms instead of finding and determining the root cause.

This is as incompetent and unacceptable as prescribing cough syrup for a case of tuberculosis, it's malpractice, is what it is, and besides which there's the financial angle, cause a proper behavioral diagnosis takes a minimum of ninety minutes observation in a controlled environment - something which most plans will not pay for, so they wind up shorting the job and doing it from a checklist and the testimony of seriously unreliable sources like the school or parents, who often have their own reasons for lying or exaggerating - you might notice how rarely they ask the child THEIR opinion of the matter, neh ?

Anyhows, that's my take on it, far as it goes - not isolating the root cause, simply blaming brain chem and structure without even testing it (something else your health plan won't pay for) is just halfassed guesswork, shaded by a financial agenda, and the very worst act of incompetence and malpractice a doctor could perform, because the idea is to achieve a functional balance on your own - the drugs are intended only for symptom abatement, not lifelong addiction, but then, that doesn't bring in the bacon, ehe ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Got a bunch of stuff to do, but spotted this so am popping in to respond.

PN is full of shit, as usual, and the criteria for mental illness is as Frem posted. In the first place, nobody is "mentally ill" who can FUNCTION in their normal life with whatever "quirks" they have. It's only diagnosable mental illness if symptoms make functioning extremely difficult or impossible. Even to BE diagnosed one has to either go to a p-doc or get diagnosed in jail or hospital, which means they've acted out so badly that it comes to the attention of either a p-doc or the authorities.

It sickens me that PN played this game; those of us here who have been diagnosed deserve respect and decency, and the rest of us don't deserve to be told such assininity.

Simply a matter of PN's own mental illness, because I suspect he and a couple of others might well have a disorder or two, and can't know if they are able to "function" in society--as a few of them DON'T here--so it's a moot point.

Either way, just more of PN's assininity. Move on, nothing to see here, as usual with him.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:45 AM

BYTEMITE

Niki, I read your suspicions.... I don't think you understand the reason why PN posted this. He is not mocking people who have mental disorders, nor is anyone here claiming that people DON'T have mental disorders. You'll notice both me and Frem have been kinda sorta agreeing with PN here, PN's making a point about overdiagnosis OF CHILDREN.

I don't doubt that SOMEONE vandalized your website, and I agree it's a mean-spirited thing to do, as sick as someone posting jokes about a little dying girl on the internet. I understand you're upset, but you can't allow that to colour your interactions with people who are most likely unrelated. I can't speak for Frem or PN, but I can speak for myself. I did not vandalize your site.

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Thursday, October 21, 2010 7:04 AM

MALACHITE

Niki said, "In the first place, nobody is "mentally ill" who can FUNCTION in their normal life with whatever "quirks" they have. It's only diagnosable mental illness if symptoms make functioning extremely difficult or impossible. Even to BE diagnosed one has to either go to a p-doc or get diagnosed in jail or hospital, which means they've acted out so badly that it comes to the attention of either a p-doc or the authorities."

Thank you for making this point, Niki. A book that describes this further is, "We've Got Issues" which discusses the state of mental illness and diagnosis vs overdiagnosis in the U.S.

Also, Byte, you mentioned in one of your posts that Oppositional Defiant Disorder kind of sounded like a child version of antisocial personality disorder/sociopathy (the sociopathy term isn't an official diagnosis in the DSM these days, though). Actually, the diagnosis most closely representing a child version of antisocial personality disorder is Conduct Disorder.

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Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, that's for another thread, I won't bring it here.

As for this thread, the title and the links are sufficient for me to "get" his intention, in my opinion. If someone wants to discuss overdiagnosis of children, I'm RIGHT there, but I don't think that was the intent. However, if someone wants to turn this thread that way, I'm more than happy. I just added my clarification about the DSM for information, that's all.

You're most welcome, Mala; I'm bipolar and run a website for those dx'd with a mental disorder, so it's kinda a hot topic for me, not surprisingly. ESPECIALLY the overdiagnosis and misdiagnosis of these conditions.

Dunno if anyone else mentioned it, but noticing the link PN put up, ODD wouldn't apply to ANYONE who had a conspiracy theory(ies) about the government or hated the government per se. It's stupid to say so, as ODD is a very complex mental disorder which should never be taken lightly.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, October 21, 2010 9:03 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Funny how all colleges treat adults students as children without legal rights, regardless of age, via Big Brother's authority In Loco Parentis ("Crazy Parents").

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Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:16 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Nothin funny about it, John - by extending the period during which the "child" is dependant on others well into adulthood and beyond, it conditions them to accept such dominion even if they do ever manage to worm their way free of it - unlikely as that may be with a huge pile of student loan debt for an education that makes em too expensive to hire, or comes back to back with a mortgage and car payment, not to mention the extortion that is "insurance".

The social aspect of it is more simply transferring guardianship in spirit, if not letter of the law, from the parents, to the state and the financial institutions, respectively.

The idea is to get them hooked in so deep, by the time they're smart enough to question it, they don't dare do so.

As for the rest, consider that the visionaries behind almost every social improvement there ever was, STARTED OUT as ill-behaved children by the standards of their era - and by eliminating them, via drugs, via the hellcamps, via the corrections system, we have murdered in the crib, our Teslas, our Mother Theresas, our Ghandis...

All the while treasuring and rewarding our Hitlers, our Stalins, and elevating them to a height from which they control our society in terrible disproportion to their moral right to do so.

And all else follows naturally as day follows dawn - this is cause and effect, and easy enough to see, but only from OUTSIDE the system.

Why else would I have devoted my life to spiking the processes by which they pre-emptively eliminate "threats" which might cause advancement from the status quo that keeps this nightmare running smoothly ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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