[quote]In response to a proposed mosque blocks from ground zero, controversial televangelist Bill Keller announced on Tuesday that he plans to open a Chr..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Televangelist Counters Community Center with Christian "church"

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, September 2, 2010 12:38
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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 9:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

In response to a proposed mosque blocks from ground zero, controversial televangelist Bill Keller announced on Tuesday that he plans to open a Christian center nearby.

The Christian center will serve to "combat this new evil being constructed near ground zero" and "bring people the Truth of God's Word and the love and hope of Jesus Christ," the fire-and-brimstone preacher states.

For years, Keller has been outspoken in his criticism of Islam, calling the religion "a 1400-year-old lie from hell" that was advanced through violence, hatred and death. Such statements led to the cancellation of his nightly TV program on a CBS-owned station in Tampa, Fla. He also recorded a video addressed to Osama Bin Laden in 2006, urging him to "renounce the lies of Islam" and come to faith in Christ.

Keller paints the Christian center as essentially the antithesis of the Islamic center.

"We will combat the lies of this world and Islam with the truth. We will combat the hatred of this world and Islam with love. We will combat the violence of this world and Islam with peace. Finally, we will combat eternal death this world and Islam brings with life everlasting!!!"

Julie Clawson, author of Everyday Justice: The Global Impact of Our Daily Choices, wrote in Sojourners magazine that it is "pure fear of the other" that is sparking some of the opposition.

And she sees Christians spewing more hate than love and more judgment than forgiveness.

"[E]ven in the church we daily judge Muslims by the actions of a few of its members," she wrote. "So while we applaud the Amish women for their acts of forgiveness, the fear and hatred sparked by the events of 9/11 still inform the average American’s opinion of Muslims. So to the protesters, the building of a Muslim center and mosque so near the site of Ground Zero is just another act of violence – a threat to American supremacy. There is no forgiveness of the terrorists and the grudge against them is extended to all Muslims.

"It is heartbreaking knowing that many of the protesters are there claiming to represent Jesus while they scream their message of hate."

The Christian Post http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100714/televangelist-counters-g
round-zero-mosque-with-christian-center/page2.html
Keller has harshly criticized President Obama’s endorsement of the “ground zero victory mosque,” while refusing to acknowledge the opening of his new 9-11 Christian Center at Ground Zero.

Keller is no stranger to conflict with Islam. In 2007, under pressure from the extremist Muslim group CAIR, Keller’s highly rated nightly TV program that ran for 4 1/2 years on a CBS owned station in Tampa, Florida, was canceled by CBS because he refused to stop telling his viewers that “according to the Bible Islam is a 1400-year-old lie from hell, and that history clearly shows Mohammed was a murdering pedophile who propagated his false religion through hatred, violence, and death.”

http://www.religionwriters.com/liveprayers-bill-keller-upset-pres-obam
a-endorses-victory-mosque-but-not-his-christian-center
Quote:

Two decades ago, Keller served several years in federal prison for insider trading, an experience that he said recommitted him to evangelical Christianity.
http://dnainfo.com/20100713/manhattan/christian-evangelical-center-pla
ns-compete-with-ground-zero-mosque#ixzz0yJCkLtBZ


Some statement on Christianity, eh? For a rabid anti-Islamic racist ex-felon to build a "church" just to "counter" a COMMUNITY CENTER which is the focus of anti-Islam hatred and fear has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with ugliness, and I think it's sick.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off





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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 9:58 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I can think of no rational argument against this man putting up a building if he has the means to do so.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 10:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Neither do I, but it's the principle of a "Christian" putting up a church JUST to preach anti-Islamic rhetoric and counter a Muslim COMMUNITY CENTER. I'm not advocating stopping him, just making a comment on the state of so-called Christianity in our country today.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 10:41 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Well, organized religion is often misguided, if I may say be so bold. It frequently treats itself as the thing to be protected and nourished, rather than the human beings it claims to love and cherish. I think if Jesus Christ saw many of today's churches he would probably break out that famous whip again. Certainly this man's motives and methods are reprehensible, and he is a hypocrite to his own religious articles.

But I'm actually pleased to hear about this thing. It serves as an important monument to everything that is wrong with institutionalized religion. It's also a Rosetta Stone of hate and intolerance, available for everyone to read. Now the wrongness of extremism can be conveniently translated into multiple languages and cultures. I expect he will have one of those big billboards on his property and will use it to display anti-Islamic rhetoric. It will help drive the lesson home.

The 9/11 site can be more than the ruin of tall buildings. It can be a memorial to the hatred that laid those buildings low.

I actually expect any structure built around the concept of overt intolerance will be short-lived, as I don't think many will be proud to go there. However, if it becomes popular with the people, we will conveniently know where to find the error of our ways, housed in a shiny structure and labeled clearly for our convenience.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 10:48 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I can think of no rational argument against this man putting up a building if he has the means to do so.


How about if that man owes over $100,000 in back taxes on the property like those Islamic folks do?

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 10:52 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I imagine there are laws about property taxes and building permits. In fact, I probably couldn't contribute a thimblefull of information about property tax law. You would know better than I, Hero.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 12:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



It's a mosque, not a community center.

Every time you deny that fact, I'll be here to correct you.


It's a mosque.




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 12:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


No, it's a community center. By definition, it's not a mosque.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 12:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
No, it's a community center. By definition, it's not a mosque.



It's a mosque, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a complete and utter moron.

So, which are you ? Both ?

I can have this argument all day long. No matter how many conference/ class rooms, gymnasiums, tea rooms, multi media centers, libraries you tack on around the prayer centre, it's still a mosque. I use to belong to a Family Wellness centre, which was part of a giant Baptist complex. There was a baseball field, indoor tack and pool, class rooms, full basketball court.... it was a church. Just because this is an in town Islamic version of the same thing, doesn't make it any less a mosque.

Because that's what it is. A mosque.




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 1:12 PM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.


So YMCA's are all churches then, yes?


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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 1:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


No.

YMCA's are YMCA's.


Don't get stuck on stupid.




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 1:34 PM

HKCAVALIER


I'm with Anthony on this one. There is no law against being a jackass, there is no law against hypocrisy, there isn't even a law against hating America or America's values. Always best to give such people a voice, so we all know who they are.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 2:16 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Mike,

The reason people keep calling the building a mosque is possibly because it WILL BE a mosque.

Quote:


From Merriam-Webster Online:
mosque noun \ˈmäsk\
Definition of MOSQUE
: a building used for public worship by Muslims



That's the whole definition.

Note that as soon as the building is used for public worship by Muslims, it becomes a Mosque. By 'public', I assume we mean that people can wander in and stumble upon the Muslims praying in a room that is not locked up for privacy.

So, if ANY PART of the Community Center building is used for public Muslim worship, the BUILDING is classified as a Mosque. Hence, the people calling it a Mosque are correct by the very definition of 'Mosque' in Webster's dictionary.

It should be noted that the Pentagon itself is also a Mosque. It has a non-denominational chapel used by Muslims. Even though the Pentagon is a building with other uses, public worship by Muslims occurs there. So, according to the dictionary, it is a Mosque.

The larger Hospitals in my city are all Mosques as well, having similar chapels used on occasion for public worship by Muslims. I suspect most of the larger Hospitals in the U.S. are Mosques, in fact.

In South Florida, I worked in a Radio Shack located in a shopping plaza. This plaza rented one of their store spaces to an actual Mosque, and local Muslims came there to pray. I did not realize it at the time, but because the plaza was one continuous building, I was working in a Mosque.

I just wanted to clear this up for you, Mike, because you seem to be confused about what a Mosque is and what it isn't.

So, to recap: Community Center = Mosque. Pentagon = Mosque. Hospital = Mosque. Shopping Plaza = Mosque.

Thank you for your time,

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 2:19 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree with Anthony. And we have many community centers in the area where I live...it wouldn't even occur to ANYONE to call them "churches", even tho' some are affiliated with a church and right across the street from it. In fact we have one right down the block. Church on one side of the street, community center on the other, with offices for nonprofits, daycare and a number of other things, and it houses our polling place, as well.
Quote:

It's a mosque, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar or a complete and utter moron.
Well, given it isn't a "mosque", it's a community center with ONE ROOM for prayer because Muslims pray many times a day, there is no praching planned, no "church" activities, only a room for the convenience of people whose religion has them pray several times a day, who is the liar? Call us all the names you want, be as stubbornly blind as you want, cling to your NEED for it to be a mosque as hard as you can; it won't change reality one whit.

You are one of the prime examples here of those who have swallowed the pablum whole and are desperate to keep it that way, no matter what the facts, and I pity you. I recognize your crucial need to insist on calling it something it's not, but I'll continue to refer to it as what it is, in reality.

You're wronga about the YMCA,, by the way. Toledo:
Quote:

Women’s Bible Study @ Francis Family YMCA Mondays 6:30pm

Women’s Bible Study @ Fort Meigs YMCA Tuesdays 7:00pm

Holy Yoga & Bible Study @ Fort Meigs YMCA Wednesdays 10:15-11:45am

Christianity Explored @ Fort Meigs YMCA Wednesdays 7-8:30pm starting 9-16-09 through 12-16-09 refreshments served. Fall study & discussion of The Reason for God by Tim Keller, hosted by Stonebridge Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Questions-visit www.stonebridge-epc.org or call the church @ 419-872-8556.

Read the Bible in 90 days @ Fort Meigs YMCA Adventure Center, 210 E. Boundary, Perrysburg. Wednesdays 7-8pm starting Jan 13. www.biblein90days.org.

Women’s Bible Study @ Eastern Community YMCA Thursdays 12pm lunch provided

Men’s Bible Study @ Fort Meigs YMCA Thursdays 6:30am

Couples Bible Study @ Francis Family YMCA alternating Fridays (12-4-09) 6:30pm



Bible study and “Holy Yoga and Bible Study” and “Christianity Explored”...so I guess some YMCAs ARE “churches”, aren’t they?.

The Pocono Family YMCA holds prayer meetings every Tuesday: http://poconoymca.org/index.php?option=com_events&task=view_month&Item
id=52&year=2009&month=06&day=07


How about Norwalk:
Quote:


There is now a regular Thursday morning Share and Prayer at the Norwalk YMCA, 370 West Avenue in Norwalk, CT. All are invited to meet each Thursday morning for a time of sharing and prayer. Meetings are held in the Norwalk YMCA Conference Center, which is on the first floor of the grey (middle) building of the north (Maple Ave) Parking lot.

http://www.prayct.org/2009/10/14/thursday-morning-prayer-norwalk-ymca/

Or from the Asia-Pacific YMCA site: “The YMCA, Young Men's Christian Association, is a Voluntary, International, Christian, ecumenical movement that strives to reflect the cultural identity of the Nation in which it exists and serves.

The YMCA also offers a variety of programmes like prayer meetings, religious studies, etc. for the spiritual growth of the young people.” from http://www.asiapacificymca.org/aboutus/ymca_basic.html

Or how about Madras:
Quote:

World YMCA / YWCA Week of Prayer and World Fellowship, 9-15th Nov.08

The Inaugural Service of the YMCA / YWCA Week of Prayer celebrations was held on Sunday the 9th November 2008 at 8.00 a.m. at YWCA Madras. Rev. Dr. J. Samuel Sudhakar, Chairman, Religious Activities Committee, YMCA Madras offered the opening prayer. Special songs were rendered by members of Maranatha Ministries and Ms. Megha Jacob. Bible portion were read by Ms. Joy Pandian, Rev. Deborah Premraj, Associate Pastor, St. Georges Cathedral, delivered the Lord's Message. Intercessory prayer was conducted by Ms. Shirley Abraham, General Secretary, YWCA Madras. The service concluded with prayer and benediction by Rev. Deborah Premraj, Associate Pastor, St. Georges Cathedral.

http://www.ymcamadras.org/center_news.html#4

I could go on, but that should be sufficient to prove my point. ORGANIZED prayer meetings, religious teachings and SERMONS are held at YMCAs all over...show us how that differs from a room where Muslims may pray PRIVATELY within a COMMUNITY CENTER.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 2:25 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, Anthony, given your definition, then I guess all YMCAs who hold prayer meetings are "churches", and we'd better start calling them that. Can't have your cake and eat it too, you know...

Young Men's Church Association it is...remember that from now on; any YMCA that holds prayer meetings or allows people to pray on its grounds is hereafter officially a "Christian Church".

Seems fair to me. Show me the difference, if you please.

Hey, that also means any office, home or other building within which Muslims pray has to be a "mosque". That would get a little confusing, don't you think? "I'm going over to Susie's mosque to study tonight, mom".

Take it one step further...any builing within which ANYONE prays becomes a "church"...ergo any family who prays within their own home makes their HOME a "church". That's what happens when you take definitions to extremes...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 2:35 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
No, it's a community center. By definition, it's not a mosque.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.





Well then Tell that to CNN, FOX,ABC,NBC,CBS,and MSNBC...do I have to post links to everyone of them calling it a mosque...or are you right? Mister know more than 100% of the media.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 2:38 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Hey, that also means any office, home or other building within which Muslims pray has to be a "mosque".



Careful. Say stuff like that and we'll have Rappy, Kane and their paranoid ilk attacking any Muslim that dare live or work in the area.

I mean, just imagine, you might have guys slitting the throats of Muslims for no good reason right there in the st.... oh, right.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 2:41 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Gee whiz, looking it up, it's not even that technical for Christian churches: By a particular church, we understand an assembly of Christians united together, and meeting in one place for the purpose of worshiping God. It is a congregation of faithful people, in which the true word of God is preached and taught. http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=172069

Webster: a building for public and especially Christian worship (note it does not denote a building SPECIFICALLY for worship)

Dictionary.com: a building for public Christian worship.

Public worship of god or a religious service in such a building.

Answers.com: 1.A building for public, especially Christian worship.

WordIQ: In the New Testament it is the translation of the Greek word ecclesia, which is synonymous with the Hebrew _kahal_ of the Old Testament, both words meaning simply an assembly, the character of which can only be known from the connection in which the word is found. There is no clear instance of its being used for a place of meeting or of worship.

So I guess ANYWHERE a group of Christians gather to pray is a "church". We'll need to change our vocabulary a LOT from now on, but given what you define as a "mosque", it's only fair to do the same for "church", isn't it?

What do we do now? If YMCAs have prayer meetings, sermons and teachings, and any building is a church if it's used for public worship, then...what?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 2:47 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The argument that some use the word "mosque" is irrelevant...that's how it's come to be known in the vernacular, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'S BEEN CALLED BY ITS OPPONENTS and everyone else, espcecially thos opposing it, calls it. If the furor hadn't started, it would never have been called that, because it ISN'T one. It would have been called, correctly, a COMMUNITY CENTER, just as the YMCA isn't called a "church".

Yes, Story, I agree. Sad, isn't it? They're real close to sitting on the throats of Muslims s it is...and I can think of a few "Christians" on whose throats I'D like to sit!

By the way, numerous people on MSNBC have STOPPED calling it a "mosque" and referring to it correctly, so have some on CNN. I don't watch the network news, got sickened by it years ago.

It doesn't matter what anyone "calls" it, facts are facts, and according to the definition offered by Anthony, if it's a "mosque", then the YMCA and ANY building within which Christians gather to pray is a "church" and ANY building within which Muslims pray is a "mosque".

It's a conundrum, but if you want to insist on absolutes, there you are. The fact that people have come to refer to it erroneously as A MOSQUE (which is erroneous in that it is far more than a place for prayer) doesn't change the facts.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 2:51 PM

KANEMAN


It is a mosque. Why bother even debating the right or wrong if you can't agree what you are debating? 71% of NYCers are against it let them deal with it. A fucking irrelevant hippie and a neocon bickering changes nothing.

The bottom line Dems are on the wrong side of this debate and the GOP.....grows. Thanks hippie whores for this...latest poll....GOP smashes the liberal cunts.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 3:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Actually, if you want to get technical, the definition of "mosque" isn't completely accurate.

Answers.com: A Muslim house of worship. Islamic public place of prayer. The masjid jami', or "congregational mosque," is the centre of community worship and the site of Friday prayer services. Though the mosque — originally a sacred plot of ground — has been influenced by local architectural styles, the building has remained essentially an open space, usually roofed, with a minaret sometimes attached.

That's a very SPECIFIC definition of a mosque...a "house of worship", not just a room within a building where Muslims can pray. Much more specific than the Christian "church".

Websters is less specific, and equates to the Christian "church": a building used for public worship by Muslims.

World English Dictionary: a Muslim place of worship, usually having one or more minarets and often decorated with elaborate tracery and texts from the Koran.

Cultural Dictionary: A Muslim house of worship with at least one minaret, a tall, slender tower with balconies, used for calling the faithful to prayer.

Some have definitions which are very specific descriptions, which I couldn't find for Christian "church".

For example, the FreeDictionary: Islamic public place of prayer. The masjid jami', or “congregational mosque,” is the centre of community worship and the site of Friday prayer services. Though the mosque—originally a sacred plot of ground—has been influenced by local architectural styles, the building has remained essentially an open space, usually roofed, with a minaret sometimes attached. Statues and pictures are not permitted as decoration. The minbar, a seat at the top of steps placed at the right of the mihrab, is used by the preacher (khatib) as a pulpit. Occasionally there is also a maqsurah, a box or wooden screen originally used to shield a worshiping ruler from assassins. The minaret, originally any elevated place but now usually a tower, is used by the muezzin (crier) to proclaim the call to worship five times each day. During prayer, Muslims orient themselves toward the qiblah wall, which is invariably oriented toward the Ka'bah in Mecca.

Community Dictionary: religious house of worship for those of the Muslim faith (note "religious house", not building with a room in it for prayer)

Yahoo Education: A Muslim house of worship

We can argue it forever. But it would appear that "mosque" has a much more specific meaning than "church". So either the building in New York is a community center with a room for prayer, or every building Christians pray in is a church. Take your pick.

Me, I'd rather refer to it as what it BY FAR is...a community center...than ask of every building I walk into "does anyone pray here?" so I can correctly call it a "church".


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 3:05 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


If you want to determine everything by the opinion of the masses AFTER they have been inunated by propaganda and fear mongering, you've got some pretty tough times coming. I've already listed the things we'd still have if the "majority" had their way at the time.

Remember that the citizens of New York had NO problem approving it in a PUBLIC meeting of their representatives six months ago. It's only once Geller got ahold of it and started her propaganda war that anyone gave a damn.

So New Yorkers were stupid then and wise now? Their public officials were stupid then and wise now? Again: take your pick, but you can't have it both ways.

Enuff already. I've clarified everything that needs clarification and researched the definitions. Nothing more need be said; call it a mosque, then call the YMCA and any building within which Christians pray a "church", or stop referring to it as a "mosque", which of course you won't.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 3:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Niki

Muslims see it as a Mosque, it's a mosque.

End of discussion.




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 3:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Rappy, you saying "End of discussion" really doesn't preclude anyone else from speaking. I know that's something you Republicans have never been able to wrap your tiny little brains around.


AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 4:04 PM

HKCAVALIER


Aw, crap, this is tiresome.

Look, it's like this: "mosque" for Muslims refers to a specific kind of religious center, somewhat equivalent to a Christian cathedral. Would any of you refer to a prayer room in a community center, or even a full-on, but modest, church as a "cathedral?" No, you wouldn't.

Now, if you were building a community center with a "chapel" in the back in a foreign land where everyone was extremely touchy about religion and everyone there called anything Christian a "cathedral," you would have the choice to try to make the distinction--"chapel" not "cathedral"--and when that failed, might you not simply accept that the foreigners want to call any place where Christians go a "cathedral" and start calling your community-center-with-a-chapel-in-the-back a "cathedral" to save time?

Meanwhile, sympathetic foreigners who know the difference between a "chapel" and a "cathedral" might go on emphasizing that it's a chapel. The thing doesn't stop being a chapel just because the foreigners are ignorant, nor does it stop being a chapel when many of your fellow Christians accept the foreign vernacular "cathedral" out of expediency.

Oh well. Carry on.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 4:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Rappy, you saying "End of discussion" really doesn't preclude anyone else from speaking. I know that's something you Republicans have never been able to wrap your tiny little brains around.





Funny, you attempting to insult anyone else's brain capacity.

As usual, you're dead wrong on just about every bit of what you say.

Speak all you want, but the matter has been resolved. What I mean by 'end of discussion' is that there's nothing else I can add , because clearly you Sheeple have decided it's far more advantageous to placate Islamo - terrorists than to agree w/ 71% of the people of NYC who think the mosque ( and yes, that's what it truly is ) shouldn't be built there. Not that anyone doesn't have the RIGHT to put it there, just that it shouldn't be.

And FYI, when you say " you Republicans" you couldn't be more wrong. I'm not a Republican. I'm an American. Freedom loving and trying to stay that way, but still an American.




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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 5:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


No, Rappy - what's funny is YOU trying to insult anyone else's mental capacity. Remember when you posted "You're a idiot"? Three little words proved once and for all that you are, indeed, a true idiot.

You have no case.

End of discussion.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 5:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh quit draggin it out Mikey.

I swear, it's like watching one of my cats chew a housefly for half a damn hour, just freakin eat the damn thing and be done!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CherryTapping

Oh, and in respect to the "big brush" I been painting these ignoranuses with...

If they didn't wanna all be tarred with the same brush, then maybe they shouldn't present themselves as a unified wall of stupid all spouting the exact same idiotic talking points cribbed verbatim from the same goddamn morons winding them up to use their stupidity for nefarious purposes, neh ?

"Big brush" my ass, it's a goddamn paint roller, is what it is, but again, how is it MY fault when they each come and step on the same boobytrap cause they're all walking in perfect lockstep ?

Act like a hive mind, get treated like one.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 10:20 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


Funny how he says that he'll spread the word of Jesus Christ to Muslims when Jesus is considered the Messiah in Islam as well as in Christianity. Isn't that the perfect example of "preaching to the choir"?

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 10:32 PM

CATPIRATE


Baby Jesus was a poor prophet according to the Koran. Commie center = Mosque = Terrorist safe house. Bye the way we were attacked by muslims in New York on 9/11. They are not your friends. Only an idiot keeps thinking multi culturalism is good. What do they bring to the table, zippo.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2010 11:17 PM

HKCAVALIER


Um...uh...ain't safe houses s'posed to be secrit--you know, to make 'em safe & such? Oh, and I didn't know zippos was made in the Middle East. Golly!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, September 2, 2010 1:40 AM

PENGUIN


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

If they didn't wanna all be tarred with the same brush, then maybe they shouldn't present themselves as a unified wall of stupid all spouting the exact same idiotic talking points cribbed verbatim from the same goddamn morons winding them up to use their stupidity for nefarious purposes, neh ?


Damed Republicans...





King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Thursday, September 2, 2010 3:35 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I'm not advocating stopping him, just making a comment on the state of so-called Christianity in our country today.



But Niki, these idiots don't represent the state of so-called Christianity in our country today. No more than Al-Qaeda represents Islam.

There are mean, hateful wankers in all religions (except maybe Buddhism--haven't heard of a hateful Buddhist yet personally). They don't represent, man. They don't represent.

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Thursday, September 2, 2010 8:41 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
[B“The YMCA, Young Men's Christian Association, is a Voluntary, International, Christian, ecumenical movement that strives to reflect the cultural identity of the Nation in which it exists and serves.

The YMCA also offers a variety of programmes like prayer meetings, religious studies, etc. for the spiritual growth of the young people.”


You can get yourself cleaned, you can have a good meal, You can do whatever you feel ...

H


"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, September 2, 2010 8:54 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You have no case.

End of discussion.


He does have a case and so do you. Your both right and your both wrong.

The plan was to build a Mosque. People had a problem with that...so they said, 'not so much a mosque as a community center'. People had a problem with that. They tried several variations of the 'its a mosque/community center/bingo hall/interfaith memorial/blah blah blah' and so on.

Right now, the plan is an Islamic Community Center which can function as a place of worship...ie a mosque. Its not the only one in the US or a new idea, there's one a mile from my house in NE Ohio. Good folks, hardly any terrorists. Their sign says Islamic Community Center at the top and has the worhship service times listed at the bottom.

I say build what you want there. I don't think its a good idea...but my opinion does not matter any more then anybody else's does...its a free frakking country. But unpaid back taxes...now we have something to talk about...'No Mosque for you!' and you wont see me crying for your loss fellas.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, September 2, 2010 9:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

If they didn't wanna all be tarred with the same brush, then maybe they shouldn't present themselves as a unified wall of stupid all spouting the exact same idiotic talking points cribbed verbatim from the same goddamn morons winding them up to use their stupidity for nefarious purposes, neh ?
Now THAT, Frem, is absolutely beautiful, and in some ways IS the "end of discussion". Of course, that won't be accepted, but it says it all for me.

Jon Stewart put it all in perspective for me. Check out http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-25-2010/tennessee-no-evil He starts out showing clips of idjits saying it will be a “victory” for Al Qaeda...and his satire is wonderful:
Quote:

W cannot building this mosque and give the terrorists an erection! ...We must build the mosque or the terrorists will get an...haterection! ... But whether we build it or not, we should not talk about it, because if they hear us talk about it, they will at least become aroused... apparently the jihadists are the only ones in this fucking thing that can’t lose! It doesn’t matter what we do... See, one side says our weakness emboldens jihadists, the other side says our strength embitters jihadists. How about we try a new system, where we don’t give a fuck about what they think?
Right on, Jon!! Oh, how I love that comedians can "say it like it is" and get away with it!

Hey, Raptor, if you're not a Repulican, you're an American, then Republicans aren’t Americans?? I thought it was Democrats who were anti-America, terrorist-sympathizers, etc. Huh. And don’t kid yourself, you’re as conservative as they come, Republican or not. I also hate to tell you, but we’re ALL Americans (except our members from other countries, of course).

Cav, of course it’s a safe house. I mean, what could be less suspicious than a giant building in New York? We’d NEVER think of looking for them there...as opposed to, say, a plain old house in another country (from which 9/11 was plotted).

CantTake, my bad, you’re right of course. They don’t BEGIN to “represent”. Sorry. Gee, think that might mean the terrorists don’t represent Islam, either? Like both might be extremists who utilize their “religion” to do hateful things? Huh, what a thought...

No minds will be changed. Those set on believing it's a mosque (note Stewart says in big letters COMMUNITY CENTER) and Islam = terrorism can't afford to admit the truth, it takes away all their argument...they will just get more vociferous in insisting it is, and that this is a "mosque" intended as a victory to our enemies.

Once again I quote my favorite source:
Quote:

Research reveals that authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and--to top it all off--a ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever change their minds with evidence or logic.

We also know that authoritarian followers lead the league in being dogmatic. When their leaders set their opinions for them, those opinions are set in stone. Experiments show that nothing (aside from their authorities) can convince them they are wrong. If overwhelmed by logic and evidence, they simply “castle” into dogmatism. This is probably because they don‟t really know why they believe what they believe. They didn‟t figure it out for themselves; they Xeroxed what their authorities said.

Once dogmatism turns out the lights, you might as well close up shop as a civilization and pull up the covers as a sentient life form. You get nowhere with unquestioning certainty. It’s thinking with your mind wide shut. But that would not faze most fundamentalists, because they know that their beliefs will get them exactly where they want to go.

They seemingly have a lot of hostility boiling away inside them that their authorities can easily unleash.

Chronically frightened authoritarian followers, looking for someone to attack because fighting is one of the things people do when they are afraid, are particularly likely to do so when they can find a moral justification for their hostility. Authoritarian followers feel empowered to isolate and segregate, to humiliate, to persecute, because in their heads they can almost hear the loudspeakers announcing, “Now batting for God’s team, his designated hitter, (their name).”



See again Jon Stewart's take on it. I wholeheartedly agree with him.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, September 2, 2010 9:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hero, I appreciate the change in your signature--I usually don't notice it, but something caught my eye as I posted and I went back to look. That is a valid and truthful quote from me, and I stand by it. Thank you.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, September 2, 2010 9:15 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Hero, I appreciate the change in your signature--I usually don't notice it, but


BUT it sounds like you would rather not ignore my contributions.

Hearts and minds. I'll have you voting Palin/Newt in 2012...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, September 2, 2010 11:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


No, I just tend to ignore people's signatures, once I get used to them.

I didn't respond to your post itself because what you said has pretty much been said before, by several people. I'm getting sick of refuting the same old tired arguments with facts, especially as I know it won't do a damned bit of good. However:

The only things I would argue with is the fact that it was begun as a "mosque", which it never was--it was Geller who latched onto it and started calling it one, the right picked up on it, and everyone followed their lead.

Secondly, nobody HAD a problem with it, again, until Geller got ahold of it and stirred it up. It was approved in an OPEN city council (I believe it was City Council) meeting...the public could have attended, if any of them DID, they could have caused a stink, gotten it on the MSM, in the newspapers, or it could have been rejected by the Council. NONE of that happened, and that was back last December...there was no hue and cry, no fuss until Geller started her smear campaign. People are easily led, and easily incited.

Lastly, it's also not an "Islamic Community Center which can function as a place of worship"--ONE ROOM within it can function as a place of worship, not the whole thing. Just clarifying.

But I agree on the whole with
Quote:

I don't think its a good idea...but my opinion does not matter any more then anybody else's does...its a free frakking country



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Thursday, September 2, 2010 12:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

People are easily led, and easily incited.



Well, right-wingers are, certainly.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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