REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

More Muslims Speak Out Against Ground Zero Mosque

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:27
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1163
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Friday, August 27, 2010 3:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



( They're Muslim, not racists, and yes, it IS undeniably a MOSQUE ! )

Quote:



Muslims across the U.S. and around the world are speaking out against building an Islamic center and mosque near the mass murder site at Ground Zero in lower Manhattan.

Many Muslim voices are echoing conservative critics of the Cordoba Initiative’s attempt to build the 13-story facility just 600 feet from where the twin towers of the World Trade Center once stood.



http://bigpeace.com/jmwaller/2010/08/24/more-muslims-speak-out-against
-ground-zero-mosque
/

The current Miss USA, Rami Fakih, who is the first Arab-American to wear the crown and is a practicing Muslim, agrees with the critics. She told CBS Inside Edition, “It shouldn’t be so close to the World Trade Center. We should be more concerned with the tragedy than religion.”

Gamal Awad, a professor at Cairo’s Al Azhar University, told the Los Angeles Times. “It will further connect Islam with a horrible event.”






It's a mosque, it'll always be tied to 9/11, and because of that, it'll never be the 'bridge' between reasonable peoples.

Of course, that's assuming those who want to BUILD the mosque are ... reasonable.









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Friday, August 27, 2010 4:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Of course, one would also have to assume that OTHERS are reasonable, something you've quite clearly shown yourself not to be.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Friday, August 27, 2010 4:16 PM

HKCAVALIER


Too bad for you, it doesn't matter what you or I or all the foreign Muslims in the world or 70% of the Amerurrican people think--it only matters what the owners of the property and the city council of NYC think and they've already decided.

If you don't want to build a mosque in downtown Manhattan, then don't build one!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, August 27, 2010 4:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Of course, one would also have to assume that OTHERS are reasonable, something you've quite clearly shown yourself not to be.



Ignore the post, and take your cheap shots.

It's who you are, it's what you do.

I'm not the issue here, Kwickie. But you're too petty to understand, or comprehend.




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Friday, August 27, 2010 4:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Too bad for you, it doesn't matter what you or I or all the foreign Muslims in the world or 70% of the Amerurrican people think--it only matters what the owners of the property and the city council of NYC think and they've already decided.

If you don't want to build a mosque in downtown Manhattan, then don't build one!

HKCavalier



Muslims across the country and around the world see what a mistake it is to build that mosque there, so why don't you?

And then folks like you feign shock and angst at why folk can't get along....

Gee, wonder why.






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Friday, August 27, 2010 5:00 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Zuhdi Jasser, President of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, told The Daily Caller that the Ground Zero mosque “is not a humble Islamic statement. A mosque such as this is actually a political structure that casts a shadow over a cemetery, over hallowed ground.

I agree with this guy, and the Islamic/political statement thing.

Quote:

The Canadian Muslim group rejected Rauf’s claim that the mosque will increase tolerance for Muslims, asking him, “Do you not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox Church near the killing fields of Srebrenica [Kosovo] where 6,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?”

That's an interesting point, would Islamic centre supporters support a bridge-building Serbian Orthodox Church being built in a population centre near to Srebrenica?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, August 27, 2010 5:32 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Zuhdi Jasser, President of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, told The Daily Caller that the Ground Zero mosque “is not a humble Islamic statement. A mosque such as this is actually a political structure that casts a shadow over a cemetery, over hallowed ground.

I agree with this guy, and the Islamic/political statement thing.

Quote:

The Canadian Muslim group rejected Rauf’s claim that the mosque will increase tolerance for Muslims, asking him, “Do you not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox Church near the killing fields of Srebrenica [Kosovo] where 6,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered?”

That's an interesting point, would Islamic centre supporters support a bridge-building Serbian Orthodox Church being built in a population centre near to Srebrenica?

It's not personal. It's just war.



If they adopt the U.S. Constitution as their foundation of government, then yes.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Friday, August 27, 2010 6:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
If they adopt the U.S. Constitution as their foundation of government, then yes.





Ignore, ignore and ignore again.


This isn't and never was a US Constitutional issue. That anyone continues to attempt to bring up the Constitutionality issue on this matter only shows they are completely disingenuous and really have no legitimate argument FOR this mosque being built.




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Friday, August 27, 2010 6:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Thanks for confirming your belief that the Constitution isn't a valid basis for anything.

We always suspected, but it's clarifying to hear you come right out and say it.

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Friday, August 27, 2010 7:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Thanks for confirming your belief that the Constitution isn't a valid basis for anything.

We always suspected, but it's clarifying to hear you come right out and say it.




Oh, but it IS a valid basis for the conquest of radical Islam over the Western world.

Make no mistake of that.




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Friday, August 27, 2010 7:14 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


I agree................

"it only matters what the owners of the property and the city council of NYC think and they've already decided."

_____________________________________________________________

In a related matter........the Real story

Larry Silverstein Soul? Searching for Tower 2
(Now there's an understatement)

World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein has had to sit down and face the music (hopefully his own) this month after the Port Authority denied his pleas for financing for two WTC office towers. And, brace yourselves, here's one possible result of Larry's soul-searching: we might be saying buh-bye to WTC Tower 2. That's the "glazed crystalline form and diamond-shaped summit" designed by Lord Norman Foster to be taller than the Empire State Building. Also the one planned WTC tower that people seemed to like. The Daily News reports that Silverstein has offered to put $250 million into his two remaining buildings and dump Tower 2 to cut costs. The Port Authority has already labeled the plan a "non-starter,"

This after a $4.5 Billion Insurance Payout in 2007. Way to go Larry.

http://gothamist.com/2007/05/24/world_trade_cen_5.php

Gekko: "Greed is good."

Now there's a news item worth protesting and debating.

BTW the center should not be built. I base the decision on this: If a Child molester wanted to build a rec center near a school to "bridge" or honor all the children molested over the years - that would be a no. Or if a defrocked Catholic priest - that would be a no. Or the US 7th Calvary pay tribute to the Native Americans at Wounded Knee - that would be a no.

It is insensitive or, as the saying goes: rubbing salt into a wound.



SGG



Tawabawho?

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Friday, August 27, 2010 8:00 PM

SHINYGOODGUY


This isn't and never was a US Constitutional issue. That anyone continues to attempt to bring up the Constitutionality issue on this matter only shows they are completely disingenuous and really have no legitimate argument FOR this mosque being built.
___________________________________________________________________

Oh, but it very much is a Constitutional issue. It is the basis of our society and what sets us apart from the rest of the world.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Notice there isn't a subparagraph that states - "Except in the case of Islamic worship"

No, they have every right to build there. But, having said that, it is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. After much thought, I came to the conclusion that its like putting a Wendy's inside a McDonald's; or placing a Nazi exhibit inside a Jewish Synagogue. It just isn't done.
It is an excercise in poor judgement and insensitivity.

Now, mind you, I'm not a religious fanatic. Far from it. Just someone who believes in the established rights as part and parcel of what makes our country what it is today.

Could they build? Yes, they have every right to.

Should they build? No, it's a dumb idea.

Problem solved, next case.


SGG


Tawabawho?

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Friday, August 27, 2010 8:07 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
Could they build? Yes, they have every right to.

Should they build? No, it's a dumb idea.



It is only a dumb idea if you can't tell the difference between Islam and Al-Qaeda.

It's like not being able to tell the difference between German culture and Neo-Nazis. Or American culture and the KKK. Or the Christianity from the Westboro Baptist Church.

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Friday, August 27, 2010 9:44 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
This isn't and never was a US Constitutional issue. That anyone continues to attempt to bring up the Constitutionality issue on this matter only shows they are completely disingenuous and really have no legitimate argument FOR this mosque being built.
___________________________________________________________________

Oh, but it very much is a Constitutional issue. It is the basis of our society and what sets us apart from the rest of the world.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Notice there isn't a subparagraph that states - "Except in the case of Islamic worship"

No, they have every right to build there. But, having said that, it is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. After much thought, I came to the conclusion that its like putting a Wendy's inside a McDonald's; or placing a Nazi exhibit inside a Jewish Synagogue. It just isn't done.
It is an excercise in poor judgement and insensitivity.

Now, mind you, I'm not a religious fanatic. Far from it. Just someone who believes in the established rights as part and parcel of what makes our country what it is today.

Could they build? Yes, they have every right to.

Should they build? No, it's a dumb idea.

Problem solved, next case.


SGG


Tawabawho?




"Congress shall make no law" however the state could. This is not a constitutional argument. The city of New York could squash this whole mess in a second. I have not heard anyone looking to Washington to stop this(congress).

They have no right to build anything if the local governmental boards decide they don't (although they haven't).leave the constitution out of it. It could be a zoning issue.

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Saturday, August 28, 2010 12:26 AM

RIVERLOVE


The opposition to the 9/11 Victory Mosque site from NYC residents is greater than the national numbers, currently at 70% opposition. Once again, on yet another divisive issue that Obama's inexperience and ineptitude either created or amplified, progessive pseudo-elitists are showing just how out of touch with the mainstream they truly are, and what a small fraction of America they represent.

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Saturday, August 28, 2010 1:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Notice there isn't a subparagraph that states - "Except in the case of Islamic worship"



Who is calling for Congress to pass any laws prohibiting this ? Anyone ? Nope.

Quote:



No, they have every right to build there. But, having said that, it is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. After much thought, I came to the conclusion that its like putting a Wendy's inside a McDonald's; or placing a Nazi exhibit inside a Jewish Synagogue. It just isn't done.
It is an excercise in poor judgement and insensitivity



And that's exactly what everyone has been saying.
Want to build a mosque and community center in lower Manhattan ? fine. Just not THERE. No one's rights are being denied, no one is prohibiting the right to worship, in the least.

Quote:


Now, mind you, I'm not a religious fanatic. Far from it. Just someone who believes in the established rights as part and parcel of what makes our country what it is today.

Could they build? Yes, they have every right to.

Should they build? No, it's a dumb idea.

Problem solved, next case.


SGG


Tawabawho?




Good, we agree!




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Saturday, August 28, 2010 3:18 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
The opposition to the 9/11 Victory Mosque site from NYC residents is greater than the national numbers, currently at 70% opposition. Once again, on yet another divisive issue that Obama's inexperience and ineptitude either created or amplified, progessive pseudo-elitists are showing just how out of touch with the mainstream they truly are, and what a small fraction of America they represent.



Bullshit. That's the story the neo-fascist right wants you to try to sell, but America ain't buyin' it. In December of '09, the city council UNANIMOUSLY approved the plans for the community center. There was no flim-flammery involved in this; it was a straightforward vote on a local issue. FoxNews was even on board; Laura Ingraham said it sounded like a good idea; Glen Beck praised Imam Rauf as a bridge-builder for doing this. There was no opposition, and Obama never said a goddam word about it UNTIL it was ginned up into a phony controversy a month ago.

Anyone on the right who can't admit to the facts is either deluded, lying, or downright stupid.

Truth of the matter is, this was never an issue, but you've decided to try to make an issue of it, and now you want to go back and re-zone and re-legislate what's already been decided.

"Just move it elsewhere," you say. As if it were that easy. Who's paying? You? Will you pay the full market price to the property owners, AND pay for all work and planning that they've already done, AND guarantee them a suitable, identical build site in an "approved" location (and pay the cost differences if none can be found for the purchase price of the property they now own?)?

Or do you think the taxpayers should do that? Should the rest of us foot the bill because you're too sensitive a little flower?

I don't like where your house is. It's too close to mine, and it's too soon. I know you've sunk a lot of money into plans and permits, but I need you to move it for me.

Sound fair?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Saturday, August 28, 2010 3:23 AM

OUT2THEBLACK



“He spent four years as a child in Indonesia and attended schools in the Indonesian language, which he still speaks...

"I was a little Jakarta street kid,” he said in a wide-ranging interview in his office (excerpts are on my blog, www.nytimes.com/ontheground). He once got in trouble for making faces during Koran study classes in his elementary school, but a president is less likely to stereotype Muslims as fanatics — and more likely to be aware of their nationalism — if he once studied the Koran with them.

Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

Moreover, Mr. Obama’s own grandfather in Kenya was a Muslim. Mr. Obama never met his grandfather and says he isn’t sure if his grandfather’s two wives were simultaneous or consecutive, or even if he was Sunni or Shiite. (O.K., maybe Mr. Obama should just give up on Alabama.)...

...“My experience growing up in Indonesia or having family in small villages in Africa — I think it makes me much more mindful of the importance of issues like personal security or freedom from corruption,” he said, adding: “I’ve witnessed it in much more direct ways than I think the average American has witnessed it.”

http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html?_r=1

ScamBO a Muslim alien globalist elitist ?

Nah , of course not...




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Sunday, August 29, 2010 10:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


The residents of NYC, in an OPEN meeting with the city council, already approved the COMMUNITY CENTER. The only reason they are against it NOW is that it’s been made into an issue and appeals have been made to their fear and hatred. So yes, the “local government” DID approve it, last December.

You want a state law saying “No Islamic community center with a space for prayer may be built within X distance of the place where terrorists destroyed two buildings”? Wow...

IT IS NOT A MOSQUE IT IS A COMMUNITY CENTER, within which, along with swimming pool, art center, childcare, and all the other things described, is a ROOM where Muslims can pray, which makes sense because Muslims have to pray several times a day, making leaving the COMMUNITY CENTER to go find a mosque in which to pray stupid.

It IS unquestionably a Constitutional matter, given the Constitution guarantees not only freedom of religion, but PROPERTY RIGHTS. Let’s not forget that little detail. As Paul said, it’s amazing right-wingers can so easily dismiss property rights when they don’t agree with something; both shows you how little they care about same and how willing they are to ignore the Constitution when it’s convenient for them.

RL, I answered the question about public opposition elsewhere. If you wanted to refute what I said, that would be fine, but just reiterating the percentages means nothing. So I’ll repeat: majority opinion is often wrong, and can be drummed up easily with visceral appeals to emotion, as well as reflect the current opinion of the time, which evolves. The MAJORITY was against:

Interracial marriage
Jews in the military
Divorce of any kind
Blacks on busses or in schools, drinking from the same water fountain or being allowed In private businesses.
Women having the vote, or equal rights
Blacks having the vote, or equal rights

If we go by what the “majority” wants AT ANY GIVEN TIME, we’d be a mess of a country!

Just out of curiosity, how far away would satisfy those of you opposed to it? Five blocks? Ten blocks? Other side of town? It is completely out of sight of “Ground Zero”, there are betting parlors and strip clubs closer, and they’ve had an ACTUAL mosque there for 30 years. It’s a drummed-up non-issue for politics sake.

As Mike said, Beck and Ingram were both PRAISING the COMMUNITY CENTER before Geller stuck her ugly little nose in, and then switched sides when they realized it was politically expedient to do so.

OTB: Interestingly, the link you first provided has no articles on the COMMUNITY CENTER except the following:
Quote:

When Republicans and Jihadists Agree...

My Sunday column is about “ground zero mosque” that of course isn’t a mosque and isn’t at ground zero. I argue that the proposed Islamic Center in lower Manhattan can be force for moderation — but, more important, that opposition to it from some Republicans feeds into the jihadi narrative that America is at war with Islam.

Most of the debate within America has focused on the religious freedom issue. Do Muslims have a right to build a mosque near where other Muslims took thousands of lives?

But in international relations and security circles, the debate has focused more on the question of how this domestic debate affects the battle within Islam.

As I argue, it seems pretty clear that Osama bin Laden and other Al Qaeda leaders agree with Republicans in opposing the Islamic community center and are delighted to see the furor erupt over it. One of the key recruiting themes of Al Qaeda in seeking disaffected Muslims in America and Britain has been that the West will never treat Muslims with equality and dignity, that we are caught ineluctably in a clash of civilizations that can be resolved only with guns and bombs. This article quotes Awlaki as saying:
Quote:

Today, with the war between Muslims and the West escalating, you cannot count on the message of solidarity you may get from a civic group or a political party, or the word of support you hear from a kind neighbor or a nice co-worker. The West will eventually turn against its Muslim citizens!
In his lair in Yemen, Awlaki must be cheering the Republicans on as they demagogue against the mosque and feed into his terror recruitment narrative. Your thoughts?

http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/21/when-republicans-and-jihad
is-agree
/

Thanx you SO much for providing such an eloquent article making my point.

Interestingly, from your final remarks, I assume you were being snide about what you posted and think somehow it makes your point. Ironically, it does exactly the opposite. He made faces during a reading of the Koran—showing he wasn’t taking it seriously...and was a CHILD at the time, and said “I think it makes me much more mindful of the importance of issues like personal security or freedom from corruption”, a praiseworthy remark.

I can’t go to the second link, it requires me to sign up. But I’m not sure what relevance you think your post has to anything about the COMMUNITY CENTER, as it’s a dig about Obama and nothing more, and the link is to a site which makes exactly the argument which (I believe) you intended to make...?

Calling Obama a “alien globalist elitist” is weird...if you mean “alien” in that he grew up abroad, that’s bigotry, pure and simple: “the other”. I can’t figure out where “globalist” comes into it, and “elitist” is amusing, gven the article itself says “I was a little Jakarta street kid”.

As others have said: “I don’t think (those words) mean what you think (they) do.” (Gawd I love Mandy Patinkin! "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.")



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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