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What determines a person's choice of politics?

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Saturday, July 31, 2010 01:39
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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 8:10 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:Isn't this thread just a repost?

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=42472



It's subtly different.



Ok. Does the progression of one apply to the other? Did it spawn this, or had you not partaken of it until now?
How do you feel one influences the other, or do they not?



Right, I've been reading through that other thread - I was aware of it at the time though it didn't engage me that much (though I note some excellent insights).

I'm less interested in describing liberals and conservatives as 'different animals'. That's true to an extent, but I believe we're all similar creatures with similar instincts. And I believe that any human being can go either way - depending on where they're born, how they're raised etc. This thread brings in the other factors that determine politics.

I'm personally fascinated in the way the same news is reported differently by different media, and how conventional wisdom is different around the world. I'm fascinated by how politics can be provincial - I'm fascinated that environmentalists in France are quite pro-nuclear, I'm fascinated at the radically different views of the U.S, or the Isreal/Palestine conflict in different countries (or within different communities in the same country), I'm fascinated by European popular fear of genetically modified crops versus american nonplussance, I'm fascinated by many things in the american right...

Ultimately I guess I'm interested in transcending partisanship, and the rather arbitrary, provincial politics we see around the world, and being left with politics that is determined by our (common) humanity - and specifically the beautiful and healthy bits, not the flawed bits.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
The question is, are there factors that contribute towards a person's mental aptitude, besides genes?

Quote:

By definition IQ is a measure of innate, genetic intelligence.


You are very wrong. That's like saying weighing scales are a measure of a person's height. It's not a measure, but it can provide an indication (there are other factors involved).


Incorrect. Weighing scales are, in fact a measure of force. They are designed to measure force, and they do.
Psychometry measures mental functions, it designs IQ tests to measure IQ, and that is what they do.
Quote:


Unfortunately science doesn't have a tape-measure for measuring genetic intelligence yet - this can only come with a complete understanding of human genetics, it seems to me.

Here's a mini article that summarises and lists some of the known factors influencing IQ (there are many): http://www.2h.com/articles/iq-tests/iq-test-results-what-factors-can-i
nfluence-them.html


Quote:

Background
Most researchers agree that genetic factors account for about 40-80% of the variation in IQ test results. If this is true, then environmental or other factors must account for 20-60% - which is a large range.

Factors Influencing IQ
Some environmental factors that have a large effect upon later IQ test results include prenatal ones, such as:

Whether or not, prior to the birth, mother drank large amounts of alcohol during her pregnancy (fetal alcohol syndrome).
The mother was exposed to large amounts of lead.
Factors that have an effect during the early years
Other factors that have their influence on IQ at a young age are:

Schooling.
The quality of toys used.
The amount of external stimulus the child was subjected to.
Prolonged malnutrition also has a marked negative effect on IQ test.
In contrast, babies who were breastfed have IQs up to 10 points on average higher than those who weren't.




Of those, only "schooling" could be considered "education." Not all "schooling" is the same as education, hence why your source did not specify "education level" in the list. All the others are correct, as I had mentioned there are many ways to decrease a person's IQ. Education is not a way to improve IQ.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by QuestionableQuestionality:
"IQ scores have been shown to be associated with such factors as morbidity and mortality,[4] parental social status,[5] and to a substantial degree, parental IQ. While its heritability has been investigated for nearly a century, controversy remains as to how much is heritable, and the mechanisms of inheritance are still a matter of some debate."


Key being "substantial degree,parental IQ". Now, the controversy is clearly political. No-one that practices Political correctness ever wants to tell a whole race of people that they are innately intellectually inferior.


I hope nobody thinks there should be a jump to conclusion here.
Any race may have higher than average IQ members, and in fact do. When 2 of these higher-IQ peeps mate, the offspring can be just as intelligent as the offspring of any other race with the same IQ level parents.
Many factors may dumb down a race. I could be argued that The Jewish race lost average IQ during the Holocaust, due to the extermination of large numbers of high-IQ members.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:36 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


for those of you that didn't take physics in high school: weight is a force, and scales (technically) measure mass which is a-whole-nother kettle-of-fish

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt:
for those of you that didn't take physics in high school: weight is a force, and scales (technically) measure mass which is a-whole-nother kettle-of-fish


Incorrect.
Scales measure force. Your mass is the same on Earth as it is in space, or on the moon.
Scales measure the gravitational force between 2 bodies, namely Earth and whatever body rests on the scale. That same scale would measure a different amount of gravitational force if placed on the moon. The gravitational force is different, yet the mass is the same. Scales do not measure mass, they measure force. In Imperial scale, the unit is pounds, and in metric the unit is Newtons. Some scales convert Newtons to Earth-bound grams (a unit of mass) without displaying the interim unit of Newton - those scales are only accurate on Earth, but the pound or Newton labeled scale would still be accurate on the Moon, as they are labeled in units of force.

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
138.

So close to Must Enjoy Now Super Achievement, will try again.




No MENSA membership for you!

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:32 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
What determines a person's politics?


Generally its a combination of education, income, background, and social status.

Thats why people who combine eduction with hard working jobs tend to be conservative. People who have too much education and whose jobs don't require much (like college profs and trust fund types) tend to be liberal. People who work hard but have little education tend to be social conservatives and liberal on economics.

This is by no means a complete explanation. There are exceptions to every rule and these are just general guidelines tha explain the predominant trends in American politics.

I don't think any political theory can explain folks like PN for whom education, social status, wealth, etc mean nothing and are replaced by mental condition.

Ann Coulter likes to say liberals are insane and many liberals say the same about conservatives. Insanity is represented by folks like PN whose views have no rational basis and are not shared by any but the most minority of sub-groups. The 'Republican/Democrats are derranged' is merely a means by which we dismiss our opponants rather then engaging them on an intellectual level.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I find those statements amazing. I said I found your remarks 'amazing'" Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:31 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Incorrect. Weighing scales are, in fact a measure of force. They are designed to measure force, and they do.

And weight is a force. Your tangential argument is as redundant as it is irrelevant. You completely missed my point if you thought it was about weighing scales.

Quote:

Psychometry measures mental functions, it designs IQ tests to measure IQ, and that is what they do.


Uh-huh, but you said:

Quote:

By definition IQ is a measure of innate, genetic intelligence.

In other words an exact measure of what's in a person's genes - a pen and paper test... Think of what you're saying.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

it designs IQ tests to measure IQ
if you wanted to add “by the criteria and culture of those creating the test”, you might be closer to the mark. As KPO said
Quote:

In other words an exact measure of what's in a person's genes - a pen and paper test...Think of what you are saying



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off


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Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:25 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Ok.

It needs to be said.

Who here has actually TAKEN an IQ test? A real one, no something off the internet.

I would propose that if you HAD, you would KNOW that these things are NOT racially-biased.

SO... any one?

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


[Raises hand] I have.

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:15 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:


As Rappy said the last stand for people with no argument is to go after grammatical errors.



Was that in the post where he was taking someone to task for using what he felt were the wrong words? Are you saying that Rappy had no argument then, and was resorting to his last resort?

Quote:


JSF knocked kpo out of the park. Instead of posting something of substance you resort to nothing....thus giving JSF an easy win.



JSF posted nothing of relevance, and a whole lot of drivel and assumptions. I called him on it, and questioned his intelligence, as I question yours. Both of you seem to have well below average intelligence. People who say "spelling and grammar aren't indicators of intelligence" are generally people who are really bad at spelling and grammar, have proven incapable of learning those subjects, and like to make themselves feel better by claiming that such things have nothing to do with intelligence. A smart person could LEARN how to correctly spell a word; a dumb person cannot (such as "Hero", who can't correctly spell the word "intelligence" two days in a row).

Quote:


I'll thank you for her...You gays are fantastic spellers.....



You fourteen year-olds aren't, but the idea that claiming someone is gay is some kind of uber-insult IS quite amusing. Quite telling, too, Nelly. ;) Also, you should look up the correct usage of the ellipsis. You're doing it wrong. It's okay if you're too dumb to realize that, though.

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Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:52 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Thats why people who combine eduction with hard working jobs tend to be conservative. People who have too much education and whose jobs don't require much (like college profs and trust fund types) tend to be liberal. People who work hard but have little education tend to be social conservatives and liberal on economics.


That's a little bit idealised, and caricaturised (in the case of the typical liberal), but I reckon there's also some truth in it. I think conservatism (to an extent) is the 'natural' state of mind for a human. Favouring tradition over change, one's own kind over 'others', etc. - these are natural instincts, and find greater expression on the right.

For an individual from one of these ordinary hard-working families to be drawn away from conservatism takes some personal eccentricity, I would say (in the U.S - in Europe progressive thought is more prevailing).

I want to change my list slightly, of what determines choice of politics (for anyone who's still interested):

1) The person that you are - made by genes, upbringing, life experience/exposure, society, religion etc.

2) Your culture/subculture - part of what made you who you are, the prevailing values/attitudes/traditions around you - good or bad. To some extent self-selected (subculture).

3) Your news sources

And I've changed my mind about totally 'transcending' 2) - Every nation should have its own culture and traditions, and be free to go its own way (that's good for the world). But... for its own good it should also be capable of respecting/admiring/learning from other cultures.


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:32 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok.

It needs to be said.

Who here has actually TAKEN an IQ test? A real one, no something off the internet.

I would propose that if you HAD, you would KNOW that these things are NOT racially-biased.

SO... any one?

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."


I have, numerous times, numerous types, numerous scales, numerous examiners.
But you likely already knew that, and were directing the Q at others.
And the retard who spouted that a numerical value of 138 resulting from an IQ test is insufficient to gain admission to Mensa has again proven themselves hopelessly wrong.

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 6:48 AM

MALACHITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok.

It needs to be said.

Who here has actually TAKEN an IQ test? A real one, no something off the internet.

I would propose that if you HAD, you would KNOW that these things are NOT racially-biased.

SO... any one?

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."



Actually, I'd be more interested in the question, "Who here has actually administered an IQ test?". That person, (a psychologist), is going to have the background knowledge of what an IQ test covers, what it actually measures and, if they've had a good enough education, an awareness of both sides of the "Do IQ tests measure innate intelligence?" debate.

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 7:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I've taken them, too. And I like Mala's suggestion; would be interesting.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Thursday, July 29, 2010 7:23 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Jewel,

A score of 138 on a Mensa directed test is not good enough, according to the one I participated in.

You need a score of 140 or higher.

Stupid picture of a human leg... I knew it was the left one. *sigh.

I'll have to wait another year to take it again.

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 7:46 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Jewel,

A score of 138 on a Mensa directed test is not good enough, according to the one I participated in.

You need a score of 140 or higher.

Stupid picture of a human leg... I knew it was the left one. *sigh.

I'll have to wait another year to take it again.


Sorry to disagree, Wulf, but the number is meaningless with out the reference of which scale it's on.
On some scales a score of 129 is above the acceptance level. On others 171 is not enough.
Many of the common scales congregate the 98th percentile around the number of 140ish, but few times do 2 scales put the cutoff at the exact same number.
The actual criteria is defined as being within the top 2 percentile of IQ, and that can be either on the math/logic portion, or on the language portion (allowing for left/right brain imbalance of strength). This effectively means that 3% of the population can qualify, which broadens the membership saturation targets for the recruiters.
There are other high-IQ societies with much higher required levels for qualification.
Yes, I've given them.
Thinking that a Psychology degree is a requirement to administer one is a fallacy. Although I do know one who has that level of degree, but she rarely can schedule the administration of the exams.
That level of degree is required to EVALUATE the exam, determine it's validity, but not to administer it. Even then other qualifications are needed for an evaluator.

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 7:53 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Fair enough.

Is it also based on the state you are in? Does an IQ score of 140 mean less or more based on NY vs Georgia?


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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:02 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok.

It needs to be said.

Who here has actually TAKEN an IQ test? A real one, no something off the internet.

I would propose that if you HAD, you would KNOW that these things are NOT racially-biased.

SO... any one?

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."


I have, numerous times, numerous types, numerous scales, numerous examiners.
But you likely already knew that, and were directing the Q at others.
And the retard who spouted that a numerical value of 138 resulting from an IQ test is insufficient to gain admission to Mensa has again proven themselves hopelessly wrong.




And the fucknut who called that person a "retard" obviously has no training of any kind whatsoever. But you already knew that.

140 generally gets bandied about as the "cutoff point" for Mensa membership. It's a fallacy, but it's easier for the hoi-polloi to digest than just telling you that you have to be in the 98th percentile or above to qualify.

Go here for more information:

http://www.us.mensa.org//AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:06 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


I never should have taken the test drunk...

But I hate tests.

lol

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:12 AM

MALACHITE


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Yes, I've given them.
Thinking that a Psychology degree is a requirement to administer one is a fallacy. Although I do know one who has that level of degree, but she rarely can schedule the administration of the exams.
That level of degree is required to EVALUATE the exam, determine it's validity, but not to administer it. Even then other qualifications are needed for an evaluator.




Okay, I'll be more specific because you seem to really like specifics. I would like a phd level psychologist's perspective on the issue. That person, chances are, is going to have the expert opinion in both administering and evaluating the results of an IQ test that I'm looking for. I know others can administer the test -- I want the expert's opinion.

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:30 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Fair enough.

Is it also based on the state you are in? Does an IQ score of 140 mean less or more based on NY vs Georgia?





Far as I know, Mensa has an "American Mensa Test" here. It doesn't seem to be state-dependent. There are parts of Georgia where having an IQ of 75 would put you in the 98th percentile. ;)

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Kwick,

Your elitism and hatred of the South is showing....

Might want to tuck that in.

Some of us here have family who fought for the Indepe...er, South.

:)P

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I never should have taken the test drunk...

But I hate tests.

lol




Hell, I did my ACT college entrance exam on 3 hours sleep and a raging hangover, ten years after dropping out of school, and punched out the top score of anyone taking it that session. I love taking tests. :)

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Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick,

Your elitism and hatred of the South is showing....

Might want to tuck that in.

Some of us here have family who fought for the Indepe...er, South.

:)P



Yes, and some of us here have family who fought for the Union. And won. So suck on that.

As for my "elitism", weren't you the one who brought up IQ scores some time ago? Nobody else seemed to get what you were driving at, but I did.

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:41 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


No, you are seeing it thru your own lenses. Blue as they are, and lacking depth.

So suck on that :)P

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:47 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


To break up the monotany of back and forth... have a vid.

Just for fun, and cus I like it.




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Thursday, July 29, 2010 10:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Kwick,

Your elitism and hatred of the South is showing....

Might want to tuck that in.

Some of us here have family who fought for the Indepe...er, South.

:)P



Yes, and some of us here have family who fought for the Union. And won. So suck on that.

As for my "elitism", weren't you the one who brought up IQ scores some time ago? Nobody else seemed to get what you were driving at, but I did.




So in answer to the above post, you offer this:

Quote:


No, you are seeing it thru your own lenses. Blue as they are, and lacking depth.

So suck on that :)P



So you DIDN'T post "138, Kwick. 138." a while back?

Or are you saying that you weren't alluding to your alleged IQ with that info? Because you keep wanting to bring it up, which seems pretty elitist.

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Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
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Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:06 AM

MALACHITE


So I just finished talking to the Phd level psychologist I work with. We just went through all of the subscales of a WISC-IV (a standardized IQ test for children/adolescents) and discussed some of the components. Her perspective was that some components of an IQ test measure innate levels of intelligence and some don't. Some components are more heavily influenced by a person's education/socioeconomic background than others and some are highly culturally dependent. She also described how IQs, as measured by the WISC-IV are not static, that is they can change if one goes from a place of educational deprivation to a more educationally enriched environment.

To be specific, it appears that the block design, matrix reasoning, coding and symbol search sections of a WISC-IV appear to be the least influenced by educational/cultural background. On the other side, the vocabulary, comprehension, similarities and letter number sequencing subtests require significant academic background (because you need to know word definitions, how to alphabetize, and what other nebulous concepts are like dimensions, democracy and monopolies). And the digit span and picture concepts subsections require more education as you get to the harder ones. Picture concepts and picture completion (which isn't always assessed) were highly culturally dependent (that is, someone from a non developed nation would do poorly on them) and some of the other subscales were somewhat culturally dependent as well (like being able to recognize what an umbrella/whistle is, what it is for and what parts might be missing from it).

There are also other scales which are highly education dependent, but aren't used unless there is a problem during testing on one of the main scales. These include the arithmetic, word reasoning and information sections.

Other things she noted were that there is a "practice effect" when taking IQ tests. That is, you have to wait a year between taking tests, because the more familiar the tests are, the better you will do.

As far as self confidence goes, this can have a positive effect on IQ scores because the more confident you are, the more persistent you will be (you won't give up when something initially looks challening), the more likely you are to make an educated guess instead of just giving up and saying "I don't know" (which on some subtests earns partial points) and the less anxious you will be (which is going to affect your ability to pay attention and retain information).

Lastly, she mentioned how race can play a role if the tester and testee are different races and one has various thoughts/attitudes about the other that could affect how the test is administered or how much effort is put in to taking the test.

Just some thoughts from a sample size of one phd psychologist. Take it for what it is worth. It was quite fascinating to go through the test.

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Thursday, July 29, 2010 3:36 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I don't think most tests are actually any kind of real world accurate, I mean, hell, I've known some right damn crafty folk who were functionally illiterate, so it's more about a persons knowledge base with me, how deep it is, how wide it is.

But there's different thought PROCESSES, and most tests never account for it, one reason some folk appear to think rapidly is that their process is cross-comparitive, rather than analytical, which explains a lot of the initial difficulty folks like me, Byte and Jack have communicating with someone like Siggy - it's like we're speaking Gaelic and they're speakin Japanese, VERY different methodology goin on there, which is why as I explained to DT a time before I don't really have concerns about folks poking their noses into my biz, as anyone who isn't sympathetic is simply NOT going to have the required thought process to make the logic jumps required to make sense of it.

A simplified definition would be that folks like us have a "wiki-walk" thought process, and without knowing where the jumps are and what the logics behind them are, we come off as scatterbrained and a little bit crazy to folk with an analytical thought process.

So it's not just intellect, it's how ya put it together, which is more craft, almost art, than it is intellect - cause outside of my own knowledge bases you might notice a bit of cluelessness.

ETA: So essentially all you'll get out of even the most refined test is a very basic approximation, and only that, which may not even be accuract cause of the factors mentioned in Malachites post above mine.

Oh, and just cause it's so fuckin funny and I been biting my tongue about it, I actually got into Mensa for a short time back when they were still using the original test set, I remember the sealed boxes apples n oranges puzzle - a membership that lasted all of seventeen days cause I inadvertently started a brawl during the one and only meeting, via calling them out on a certain arrogance and derision, the very same classism they so complained about directed at them by athletic types, and their refusal to own up to this got ugly - this was during the time I was trying like hell to BREAK those stupid us-n-them games, which paid off about a year later, but at the time I got frustrated, lost my cool and wound up throwing a chair at em.

Makin me prolly the first one they ever booted for starting a fight (1985), but I hear, not the only one since - despite the "geek" stereotype coming to mind, they really are more diverse than that, although in addition to that elitism I found em sexist bastards as well.

Still paid off though, apparently the *local* geek/nerd crew thought it was bloody awesome and a combination of that as a hook, in addition with modelmaking skills (they were into model rocketry) and computer knowledge, won them over and started the "unholy alliance".

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, July 30, 2010 5:44 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Fair enough.

Is it also based on the state you are in? Does an IQ score of 140 mean less or more based on NY vs Georgia?



No, you should achieve the same score regardless of state, and also the same percentile - which is really the most useful data anyhow.

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Friday, July 30, 2010 2:21 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Malachite:
So I just finished talking to the Phd level psychologist I work with. We just went through all of the subscales of a WISC-IV (a standardized IQ test for children/adolescents) and discussed some of the components. Her perspective was that some components of an IQ test measure innate levels of intelligence and some don't. Some components are more heavily influenced by a person's education/socioeconomic background than others and some are highly culturally dependent. She also described how IQs, as measured by the WISC-IV are not static, that is they can change if one goes from a place of educational deprivation to a more educationally enriched environment.

To be specific, it appears that the block design, matrix reasoning, coding and symbol search sections of a WISC-IV appear to be the least influenced by educational/cultural background. On the other side, the vocabulary, comprehension, similarities and letter number sequencing subtests require significant academic background (because you need to know word definitions, how to alphabetize, and what other nebulous concepts are like dimensions, democracy and monopolies). And the digit span and picture concepts subsections require more education as you get to the harder ones. Picture concepts and picture completion (which isn't always assessed) were highly culturally dependent (that is, someone from a non developed nation would do poorly on them) and some of the other subscales were somewhat culturally dependent as well (like being able to recognize what an umbrella/whistle is, what it is for and what parts might be missing from it).

There are also other scales which are highly education dependent, but aren't used unless there is a problem during testing on one of the main scales. These include the arithmetic, word reasoning and information sections.

Other things she noted were that there is a "practice effect" when taking IQ tests. That is, you have to wait a year between taking tests, because the more familiar the tests are, the better you will do.

As far as self confidence goes, this can have a positive effect on IQ scores because the more confident you are, the more persistent you will be (you won't give up when something initially looks challening), the more likely you are to make an educated guess instead of just giving up and saying "I don't know" (which on some subtests earns partial points) and the less anxious you will be (which is going to affect your ability to pay attention and retain information).

Lastly, she mentioned how race can play a role if the tester and testee are different races and one has various thoughts/attitudes about the other that could affect how the test is administered or how much effort is put in to taking the test.

Just some thoughts from a sample size of one phd psychologist. Take it for what it is worth. It was quite fascinating to go through the test.



Thanks malachite, that's very informative.

I've been approaching the debate with the point that the upbringing of a child contributes to its eventual IQ (real IQ, not measured) - whether the pregnant mother is well nourished (and listens to plenty of Mozart), whether the baby breast or bottle feeds, whether the infant has good quality toys, and plenty of intellectual stimulation throughout its childhood development - all can make a difference.

Another essay that makes a good case for environment: http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq03.htm

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, July 31, 2010 1:39 AM

MALACHITE


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:

Thanks malachite, that's very informative.

I've been approaching the debate with the point that the upbringing of a child contributes to its eventual IQ (real IQ, not measured) - whether the pregnant mother is well nourished (and listens to plenty of Mozart), whether the baby breast or bottle feeds, whether the infant has good quality toys, and plenty of intellectual stimulation throughout its childhood development - all can make a difference.

Another essay that makes a good case for environment: http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq03.htm

It's not personal. It's just war.



You're welcome. We actually were arguing the same side of the debate on two threads at the same time a couple of weeks ago (I think my argument was on one of the "how can I prove I'm not a racist thread, but it might have been another...)

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