REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Hyperinflation Warning

POSTED BY: OUT2THEBLACK
UPDATED: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:04
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Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:58 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


<(o)>

'...The National Inflation Association today issued a warning to all Americans that empty store shelves will likely be coming to America as a result of government price controls during the upcoming hyperinflationary crisis. This morning, NIA released a video preview of what hyperinflation will look like in the U.S. This extremely important must see video is now available on NIA's video page at: http://inflation.us/videos.html

NIA's six-minute video released today goes into detail about an event that took place just outside of Boston, Massachusetts in May of this year. This story was widely ignored by the nationwide mainstream media, but NIA believes it was one of the most important news events of the first half of 2010. Although this particular crisis in Boston was due to decaying infrastructure, NIA believes a currency crisis will lead to the same type of panic on a nationwide basis.

NIA hopes that this video serves as a wake-up call for Americans to take the necessary steps to prepare for hyperinflation and become educated about the U.S. economy. In Zimbabwe during hyperinflation, Zimbabweans were forced to transact in gold and silver. It's only a matter of time before the U.S. dollar becomes worthless and the only Americans with wealth will be those who own gold and silver.

Citizens of Boston were able to survive their recent crisis with the help of the National Guard, but the National Guard won't be there for Americans during hyperinflation. 40.2 million Americans are currently living off of food stamps, but food stamps won't have any purchasing power during hyperinflation. The United States' day of reckoning is ahead. We cannot go on living with record budget deficits and accelerating national debt growth forever.

Just yesterday it was announced that for the first time ever, a major credit ratings agency has given China a higher credit rating than the U.S. While most credit ratings agencies including Moody's, Standard & Poor’s and Fitch Ratings still rate U.S. debt as AAA, NIA believes the real credit rating of the U.S. should be junk. The only way one could possibly justify a U.S. credit rating of AAA is by taking into account the Federal Reserve's ability to monetize our debt through inflation. However, printing money to pay off debt is a lot worse than defaulting on it. Inflation is very deceptive, it destroys the value of savings while transferring wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich.

The U.S. has a budget deficit just from Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid alone. NIA urges President Obama to implement dramatic cuts to these entitlement programs immediately, while simultaneously reducing the size of government across the board. Time is growing short for Obama to rein in government spending. The longer Obama waits to reverse course, the harder it will be for the U.S. to recover from the calamity that is about to unfold.

Please forward this message to everybody you know. It is essential to the well-being of all your family members and friends that they watch our new video entitled "Empty Store Shelves Coming to America" by going to: http://inflation.us/videos.html

Please spread the word about NIA and have your friends subscribe for free at: http://inflation.us '


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Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:20 AM

DMAANLILEILTT


this could get interesting

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


NIA is a well-known pump-n-dump operation specializing in gold and silver sales.

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Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:12 AM

BYTEMITE


I don't get it. They're saying we should change to gold and silver, to buy products that won't be on store shelves.

What?

This is why I don't get gold and silver, I know you tried to explain it to me before O2TB, but food and water still seem to be the most valuable commodities in the world, from my perspective.

Utah, Arizona, Nevada, and California are about to get into an amazing drag out beat down fight over Colorado River water rights. We've been seeing the first rumbling for this for almost a decade now, and most everyone has been ignoring it, but Arizona started exploring escalating it in response to California trying to boycott them for the immigration law earlier this year.

If the economy crashes, that's going to make this brewing fight even worse. I'm much more concerned about having water than I am having gold.

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Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:54 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I agree that 'silver' and 'gold' can at best be considered metaphors. In an economic collapse, what you need is a commodity sure to be valuable in your area. Water might be 'gold.' Guns might be 'gold.' Food might be 'gold.'

Gold might not be 'gold.' Certainly not until some semblance of an economy returns. Gold is only valuable when there is someone who is willing to trade gold for a commodity.

If no one can get food or water, what the heck are they going to do with gold? Gold is more valuable than dollars in a weak economy. Gold is absolutely worthless in an destroyed economy.

--Anthony



Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews, Wulfenstar. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Tuesday, July 13, 2010 7:02 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Empty store shelves, heh, how about vacant stores? I think Mike is right though, just more fear mongering. People see it working for the t-baggers, it's just Nu Marketing Strategery.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:24 PM

FREMDFIRMA



kwicko, not real silver and good, the paper junk with nothing backing it, and they want rid of it in a hurry, so that they can get something of real value for a certificate with nothing behind it but a promise that wont be kept because the people who made it cant keep it, like a parking garage with a hundred spaces that sells five hundred because they assume not everyone will use it at the same time and then just ignoring the complaints then declaring bankruptcy.

-frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, July 13, 2010 7:02 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

kwicko, not real silver and good, the paper junk with nothing backing it, and they want rid of it in a hurry, so that they can get something of real value for a certificate with nothing behind it but a promise that wont be kept because the people who made it cant keep it, like a parking garage with a hundred spaces that sells five hundred because they assume not everyone will use it at the same time and then just ignoring the complaints then declaring bankruptcy.

-frem

I do not serve the Blind God.




Yup. That sounds about par for the course with these clowns.

These are the people telling you you should buy gold RIGHT NOW, because (as the ad on their site blasts), "GOLD IS AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH!". Heck, by that rationale, 1929 would have been an ideal time to buy into the stock market, eh? And 2007 was the best time to buy a house, since prices were at their peak!

This would be a good time to OWN gold - as in, actually have it in your possession. It's not a real good time to BUY gold, especially to buy certificates that say you have some nebulous stock in some maybe-if supply of gold that you'll never see if the shit really truly DID hit the fan.

Buy low; sell high. If this is a gold bubble, it's about to burst. If it's the 'Pocksalips, you're too late. And as was pointed out earlier, if the store shelves are empty, gold won't buy you diddly.

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Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:44 AM

PENGUIN


"The National Inflation Association"


I'm sure they're "Fair and Balanced" in their outlook!





King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:43 AM

JONGSSTRAW

We carry in our hearts the true country, and that cannot be stolen.


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
These are the people telling you you should buy gold RIGHT NOW, because (as the ad on their site blasts), "GOLD IS AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH!". Heck, by that rationale, 1929 would have been an ideal time to buy into the stock market, eh? And 2007 was the best time to buy a house, since prices were at their peak!

This would be a good time to OWN gold - as in, actually have it in your possession. It's not a real good time to BUY gold, especially to buy certificates that say you have some nebulous stock in some maybe-if supply of gold that you'll never see if the shit really truly DID hit the fan.

Buy low; sell high.


The trouble is most folks don't know how low or how high a price is going to be. So jumping in to buy a stock is always a risk. But my brother, the stock broker, always says a stock that is at an all-time high is more likely to continue to go up than down. Conversely, a stock at its' all-time low will more likely continue to go down than up. Personally, I would never buy gold at any price.

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Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:00 AM

FREMDFIRMA


you would trust the word of a broker?
when its pretty clear by now they make most of their money by convincing you to make bad decisions they can profit from and stories about broker misconduct, churning, touting, and all kinds of stuff like that are all over the press as the investors take a bath while the brokers run snickering to the caymans ?
just because they are good at convincing you to make foolish decisions does not mean those decisions are not foolish, any more than the ability of a used car dealer makes that lemon worth buying, and what your brother is telling you is buy high, sell low, wrapped in lies and excuses to make it sound like a good idea by preying on the assumed ignorance of clients and convincing them to disregard their own common sense.
i would believe that no more than a used car dealers statement that the blue smoke coming from a cars tailpipe means its running correctly.

-frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:21 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Bytemite wrote:
Tuesday, July 13, 2010 05:12

...This is why I don't get gold and silver, I know you tried to explain it to me before O2TB, but food and water still seem to be the most valuable commodities in the world, from my perspective.

...If the economy crashes, that's going to make this brewing fight even worse. I'm much more concerned about having water than I am having gold.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


America is Insolvent. Why Would China's Rating Agency Rate US Sovereign Debt AA When it is No Better Than Junk?


by Matthias Chang

Global Research, July 19, 2010


For all intent and purposes, the United States is insolvent.

This is not my personal assessment but that of world renowned “experts” and economists, and financial institutions. Just google “US Debts” and you can find thousands of analysts stating that there is no way that the US can ever pay off its debts. The US cannot even liquidate the accumulated interest on the outstanding debts. The debts are in the trillions!

The Casey Daily Dispatch observed:

The simple reality the Fed is waking up to is that the structural underpinnings of the economy are damaged beyond any quick or easy fix. That’s because until the debt is wrung out of the system, either through default or raging inflation – there’s no chance of it actually being paid in anything remotely resembling current dollars – the equivalent of an economic Black Death is going to plague the land.

The American rating agencies, Moody’s, Standard & Poor’s, and Fitch Ratings still give the thumbs up for the United States – a whopping AAA rating. These same agencies gave AAA ratings to the CDOs and other financial products peddled by the Too Big to Fail Global Banks when they were in fact junk. It took the financial tsunami to expose their fraudulent practices.

So I don’t give too much credence to the ratings by these crooked institutions.

The National Inflation Association (NIA) believes that the real credit rating of the US should be junk. But you don’t have to believe them either.

So how do we know for sure that the US should be rated as junk?

Simple! Apply common sense to the facts before you.

Since the United States defaulted on its debts in 1971, when President Nixon refused global and sovereign creditors the right of redemption in gold for US dollars, it has been living on borrowed time. The United States conned the world into accepting its toilet paper currency and for those who dared to question the integrity of its fiat currency, the mighty US military was deployed to ensure compliance.

The global banking elites then employed subservient economists the world over to tout the merits of the floating exchange rate as the mechanism to determine a currency’s value. Countries were compelled by threats of war or coups to peg their currency to the dollar. The dollar became the “anchor” in place of gold. Trade had to be denominated in US dollar which gave the United States an undue advantage.

This “pegging” gave an illusion of strength of the US dollar and creditworthiness of the United States. While others have to produce and earn an income in a “local currency” and then exchange it for US dollars to import and or purchase goods (as over 80% of global trade is denominated in dollars), the “paper tiger United States” need only to print money to pay for goods and services when its income was insufficient to pay and sustain its standard of living.

For over 37 years, the United States got away with this con!

For over 37 years, people the world over sold their produce to the United States in exchange for a paper with a number printed on it, a number denoting its value i.e. a 100 dollar note etc. People just accepted the number printed on the paper as reflective of the “real value” of the currency. In reality it has no value. It costs a few cents to print the toilet paper currency.

Through slick propaganda, people were led to believe that the value is as printed on the paper. No one dare to question the absurdity of this proposition.

But now, we have reached the stage of total collapse of the global fiat currency system. Every country in the developed world is implementing the policy of “quantitative easing” (the central bankers’ jargon for creating money out of thin air) in a desperate effort to pay off mounting debts and compounding interest in the trillions. To a lesser extent, developing countries are also following the Washington consensus. The global financial system is flooded with toilet paper currencies.

What will be the endgame?

Let’s pause and think for a moment. Let’s apply common sense.

The US dollar $, the Euro €, the pound £, the Yen ¥ etc. are all fiat currencies – they have no intrinsic value. Their value is a number arbitrarily printed on the paper and sanctioned by central bankers as “legal tender”.

In essence, they are all junk – toilet paper currencies. So how do they “float” against each other under the global floating exchange rate system?

This is where the fun starts.

How does one compare a junk from another? How does one determine the exchange value of one junk from another? A junk is a junk!

Forget about the market forces determining the values of the various junk currencies. It is determined by central bankers and no one else.

Whether a US dollar is equivalent to Ringgit 3.40 or Euro 1.18 or Yen 90 is arbitrarily decided by the respective central banks. And there is nothing you and I can do about it. If it serves the interest of a country to have its currency devalued, the central bank of that country will allow its currency to devalue and vice-versa.

Sometimes, the central bankers get their accomplices, the hedge funds to jointly manipulate the forex market through derivatives trading. And as long as the central bankers and their accomplices maintain the fluctuations in any one period of time in accordance with the parameters previously agreed by the central bankers, nothing much will happen. It is when central bankers cannot agree on the parameters that problems will emerge, often resulting in trade wars and even “hot” wars.

Don’t believe me?

I will give two examples:

The Plaza Accord

In 1985, at the request of the United States – France, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom agreed to deliberately weaken the dollar's exchange rate. At the material time, the United States was having huge trade deficits, especially with Japan. The agreement, known as the Plaza Accord, was to help the United States reduce its huge trade deficit to assist its economy to climb out of the 1980's long recession. The intervention was so successful, that the dollar depreciated beyond its target level. By the end of 1987, the dollar had fallen by 54% against both the D-mark and the yen from its peak in February 1985. This sharp drop caused another panic – that of an uncontrolled dollar plunge.

To address and reverse the excessive depreciation of the dollar, the same group of countries agreed in 1987 to strengthen the dollar. This latter effort was known as the Louvre Accord. Another blatant market manipulation! Since when were any markets really free?

Why did England and France agree to participate in this blatant market manipulation? They owed US a big thank you for winning the Second World War. It was time for the US to collect past dues. In the case of Germany and Japan, being defeated nations and under occupation, they had no choice but to kow tow to big brother USA.

The Asian Financial Crisis

All you need to do is to recall what happened during the Asian financial crisis. The tiger economies were undermined and attacked and their currencies went into a free fall. Malaysia’s economic development was severely threatened. But the then prime minister, Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad had the foresight and courage to take on the global financial elites and imposed capital and currency controls. The prime minister unilaterally fixed the exchange rate for the ringgit at RM3.80 to a dollar. Forex speculators took a major hit and never recovered from this surprise counter attack.

While this unprecedented intervention was executed to save the national economy and the livelihood of 23 million Malaysians, the global financial elites through the shadow banking system intervened to manipulate the market to reap obscene profits and to plunder.

We will now address the trillion dollar question.

How does China or the United States decide that one US dollar is equivalent to 6.7 Yuan or whatever rate?

Before addressing the question, it is important for us to understand how in a relatively short period of time, China was able to accumulate such a huge amount of dollar reserves and became the No. 1 creditor of the United States.

In their grand scheme for financial hegemony, the US financial elites proposed to the Chinese financial elites that in exchange for massive FDI and outsourcing of industries by the US, China must supply cheap goods to the American market and maintain an agreed exchange rate. This scheme was the lynchpin to an unprecedented expansion of credit in the global financial system, because such a rapid expansion of credit would be extremely inflationary. When China can supply the entire spectrum of goods at less than ten percent of the prevailing price, the financial elites knew that they could flood the global casino with dollars without having to worry about inflation.

And as they say, the rest is history.

This arrangement served the US and China well for two decades, in fact too well resulting in China having the largest dollar reserves in the world as well as becoming the largest creditor to the US.

Coming back to the trillion dollar question, as stated earlier the exchange rate is determined by the respective central banks. Of late, the Obama administration has been putting pressure on China to revalue its currency. In response to the pressure and to avoid a trade war, China allowed its currency to appreciate slightly. In fact, this happened just before the G-20 Summit in Toronto.

While the above arrangement (specifically the agreed exchange rate) has served its original purpose, it can no longer be sustained. This is because the current yuan/dollar peg is distorting the forex market and will exacerbate even further the present global financial crisis.

As a result of the global financial tsunami, the US is in default once again. But this time round, Obama cannot do what Nixon did in 1971.

The Daily Reckoning assessed the situation correctly when its subscribers were told:

Wait a minute. We're still Number One, right?

Yes...in the sense that we can, in theory, kick any butt in the world. That is, if the Chinese let us. They've got so much of our money and so many of our bonds, if they decided to dump them, we'd be in one helluva fix. Because we don't pay enough in taxes to fund our social programs and the Pentagon at the same time. We can't afford it. So the nice Chinese lend us money.

But don't worry. They've promised not to dump our bonds. And we're sure they'll honor that promise for as long as they want to.

As far as we know, no empire that had to borrow money from its rivals has ever lasted very long. Britain got itself in that position in WWI. It could no longer afford the carrying costs of the empire – including the huge cost of the war itself. So, it borrowed from the US. The Germans borrowed from US lenders too. But America's lenders to Britain had more money in New York and more power in Washington. So, the US entered the war on Britain's side rather than on Germany's side.

Then, in WWII, when an American general was put in charge of D-Day, it was clear that Britain had ceded the lead dog position to the US. It was a friendly handover, achieved by force of economics rather than by force of arms. The US did not have to defeat Britain militarily. Instead, she merely had to finance her.

A few years later, during the Suez crisis, Britain learned what it was like to be a subordinate power. She discovered that she could no longer throw her weight around without US consent.

But that is on the military front. At home, Britons discovered that they were poor...and getting relatively poorer. Under the weight of growing social welfare programs and a shrinking empire, Britain's economy sagged. Its old allies – France and the US – boomed in the post-war years. So did its old enemies – Japan and Germany. Soon, not only were its friends richer and more powerful...so were its adversaries.

So, we now have a ridiculous situation where the United States owes global creditors trillions of dollars (specifically China), is insolvent, yet, the exchange rate does not reflect the underlying weakness of the United States.

We also have the situation where China has been selling goods and services to the United States and is being paid in toilet paper currency that has no value other than the artificial and arbitrary value printed on the paper. China, in turn lends these toilet papers back to the United States so that it can purchase more goods and services from China. The United States has no money to repay China, so it creates money out of thin air, via the electronic printing press and use that to pay China.

Seriously, how long can this charade last?

Back in 1985, we had the Plaza Accord to bail out the paper tiger USA. The answer then was to devalue the US dollar. But Japan suffered two decades of stagnation.

Why have the same countries – UK, France, Germany and Japan not adopted a similar strategy at this juncture, thereby boosting US exports?

Simple!

1. The US has outsourced so much of their previous exports to China and other countries that it does not have enough meaningful products to export anymore to make a substantial difference in the trade deficit.

2. For the past decade, the main exports of the US were, and continue to be “Financial Products” – the junks wrapped up as CDOs and rated AAA and sold to gullible investors (i.e. gamblers) all over the world. The US was the centre of the global derivatives casino, managed by the Shadow Banking Cartel.

3. There has been such a massive US dollar credit expansion in the last decade as well as toilet paper dollars in the global financial system that any attempt to devalue the dollar would result in an uncontrolled free fall, and the complete destruction of the economy of the US.

4. And China by maintaining its current exchange rate with the dollar (and within a narrow band of fluctuation) has artificially maintained the current value of the US dollar to avoid the status of being downgraded to junk.

5. Thus in the short term, China is complicit, together with other major central banks, in hoodwinking the ordinary folks that the global fiat money system is still in a healthy state. But, by downgrading the US one notch, China and the global elites hope that the con can be maintained for some time so that China as well as other countries can get out of their massive US dollar assets. But the situation is so volatile that no one, absolutely no one can say for sure when a child would cry out the proverbial exposé, hey, the emperor has no clothes!

6. It is also obvious to the global financial elites that if there is a massive flight from dollar assets to euro assets, there would also be an uncontrolled plunge of the US dollar. The European global banks are also up to their eyeballs holding junk dollar assets and would thereby suffer huge losses over and above their exposure in euro loans to the “PIIGS” countries (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain). Unlike the time of the Plaza Accord, right now, no one wants dollar devaluation. When the slide starts, no one would be able to stop the plunge. Central bankers are sitting on a knife’s edge. Ouch!

7. So, the “Greek crisis” was engineered to prevent such a flight from dollar assets to euro assets. Greece is “Mary Poppins” in the overall financial scheme of things. Its GDP is not even 3% of the Euro zone. In contrast, California is bankrupt and is more pivotal to the US economy. It is the 7th largest economy in the world. Yet, the bankruptcy of California did not impact on the US economy as it should. This is because the global mass media ensured that the bankruptcy would not be highlighted. The hype instead was that the euro would be heading for a crash. The result? The flight to euros was halted in its tracks.

8. Someone threw the spanner in the works. The culprit in the eyes of the global financial elites was the indomitable Iran. China and Russia were playing geopolitical games in their trade relations with Iran in the hope that President Ahmadinejad would not spoil the party before they were ready to dump their massive dollar assets. The US and Israel played the hard ball role while China and Russia initially played the softy role so typical of the police methods when attempting to extract concessions and or confessions. But China’s and Russia’s true intentions were revealed, when exasperated with the resilience and defiance of Iran, they opted to impose severe sanctions on Iran. The quartet did not bother to maintain the farce. The nuclear weapons issue was merely a smoke screen to mislead the world of the impending financial implosion.

The downgrade by China must be seen for what it is – a stark warning that the end is near. The curtain has to come down on the charade.

Another signal that the end is near was when the Bank of International Settlement (BIS) swapped Gold as security for a dollar facility extended to a sovereign (most likely Portugal) via commercial entities. Gold, once considered a “barbaric relic” is now back in fashion in currency swaps. Who would have thought this was possible just a few months ago? In a sense, we have turned a full circle. In 1971, Nixon decoupled gold from the US dollar. Today, the BIS have taken the first few steps in bringing gold back to its rightful place.

No matter how hard the central bankers and China try to prevent the sovereign debt bubble blow-out, they will not succeed.

Sooner or later, China has to make the decision of the 21st century – to dump the dollar and allow global economies to suffer severe pain in the short term, five to ten years, or commit mass suicide together with the US, UK, France, Germany, Russia and Japan.

China at this moment in time is the only country that can survive the coming financial devastation with the least pain as it will be relatively easy to transform its economy from being export-driven to that of a domestic-based economy – tapping the limitless potential of its 1.5 billion citizens. China can do in one short year, maybe at the most two, what would take a generation for the other developed economies to do.

A marginal increase in the purchasing power of its citizens will take up whatever downturn in the export markets.

The fact that the Yuan is propping up the dollar means that it is the Yuan and not the dollar that is the undisputed global reserve currency. If China revalues drastically upwards the Yuan, every fiat currency would head for an uncontrolled free fall.

Let us not be naive and kid ourselves. It is pure pantomime for the US to demand from China to revalue the Yuan and for China to resist a revaluation. This so-called currency tug-of-war is a smoke screen to lend credence that the dollar is not junk but AA, albeit down one notch from AAA.

The fact that so many western-trained economists have not addressed and or exposed this issue can mean only two things – either they are truly ignorant or they are part of this grand charade, blowing smoke into our eyes.

Be patient. Invest in Gold. Prepare for Act II of the financial Armageddon!
Matthias Chang is a frequent contributor to Global Research.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20176





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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:40 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Nothing in this article explains why gold or silver will be worth anything during an economic collapse. Food, Water, Guns, and Ammunition would seem to remain the more intelligent investments if you really believe in financial Armageddon.

Gold is only valuable if the markets do not collapse, but merely weaken. This may well be the case, but that's not what the article author suggests. Rather, he suggests 'uncontrolled free fall' and 'Armageddon!' In an Armageddon, the only use for gold will be to make bullets.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:50 AM

BYTEMITE


And gold makes poor bullets and tools. It's a soft metal. Deforms easily.

Though generally I'd say the general outlook of the article and the economic forces is correct, this idea that gold is some kind of fallback strikes me just as much unfounded.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:51 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


In Siberia, the only 2 thigs that have any value are...

Vodka.

and

Bullets.


Welcome to the new world order.

THO I would argue that gold, platinum, and silver have intrinsic value.


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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"National Inflation Association" predicting hyperinflation?? You have GOT to be kidding! Like Beck, fear mongering works great to sell gold, but it's assinine. Then again, there are a lot of assinine, ignorant people in America.

You taking orders, OTB?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off


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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"And gold makes poor bullets and tools. It's a soft metal. Deforms easily."

Hello,

Gold makes excellent bullets. Carries energy well, and the deformation is desirable.

It's just not practical from a cost perspective. But if Gold were as common as lead, they'd sure make bullets out of it.

--Anthony

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:36 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, okay, I guess that's true. Some slugs are made to intentionally flatten on impact to make a bigger entry and exit wound.

Still can't imagine gold being worth more than food and water, if things come to that.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Byte: You've got it now. What you make a bullet out of is dependent on what you want it to do. Soft, flat-nose, or hollow-point bullets are designed to enter the body and flatten and expand, doing traumatic damage and causing massive injuries and often instant death. Harder bullets with a copper jacketing (called "full metal jacket" rounds) are more like what is called for in battle, according to the Geneva Convention. These are designed and intended to go THROUGH the body, creating large wound channels, but ideally NOT killing.

I know that sounds weird, the idea of "shooting to wound", but the intent behind it is sound, from a logistical viewpoint. If you kill an enemy soldier, you've taken him out of the battle. If you WOUND him, you've taken HIM out of the battle, but you've also removed at least one other person (a medic, at least) from the action, and more likely two or three others, who have to carry the wounded back to an aid station. And while you can carry on a battle with dead soldiers around you, it's horribly disheartening and demoralizing to have wounded soldiers around you, crying out in pain for help. Wounding a soldier is actually a force multiplier compared to killing them.

Sounds crazy, but it's real war theory.

Now, MOST bullets are made with at least a lead core, because (a) it's cheap as hell, and easy to melt and pour, and (b) it weighs a lot for its volume, so a bullet made with lead carries more kinetic energy to its target.

You *COULD* make bullets with gold, and they'd work just fine, but you can make a whole hell of a lot more of them with lead, at least right now, because it's so much cheaper. If I were interested in buying metals that were going to be worth more in an apocalypse than they are now, I'd be loading up on lead, not gold!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:31 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Speaking of which, does anyone know a good simple do-it-yourself formula for gunpowder?

I've been wondering if a blackpowder weapon might not be a good idea, assuming I can manufacture the powder. Otherwise there's no benefit. (If I have to get my powder at the store, it's the same as getting my bullets at the store. So if there's no store...?)

--Anthony

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:40 PM

CHRISISALL


Welcome to the world of Dark Angel, my fiends.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:36 PM

DREAMTROVE


I suspect this is bogus, and relies on some outdated economic theory. The value of gold is absolutely artificial, little more than a religious belief.

The money driving the global economy now is derivatives, largely based on energy, but also land. It will be very hard for anyone to crash, as all derivatives are changing hands all the time, largely out of sight of anyone.

As the dollar=euro=RMB=Swiss Franc at exchange rates which only deviate nominally from their norm, one currency can basically be said to *be* another, and while money is only around 10% of all money now when you drag the derivatives in, those derivatives guys can't flood the market for money any more than the FED can go rolling with the e-presses because no one wants to be cut out from a world market in which their currency equals everyone elses.

IF there's a food disaster in the US it will come from a national food distribution program. It will require some bogus story about poisoned food, or maybe they'll actually poison it, so as to stop imports, and then run a bogus famine story or create an actual famine which could be the impetus for instituting a national food distribution program.

I think this is real fascist dystopia stuff, and I wouldn't put it past our beloved leaders, but I don't see us quite there yet.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:40 PM

FREMDFIRMA



You're better off with a crossbow made from a strong wood with the bow cut from an automotive leaf spring and using an emergency brake cable for the "string" - there's a couple good designs for that floating around and in a real total meltdown it would be invaluable as you can replace the "string" quickly with minimal tools, it's very quiet in it's operation with no muzzle flash to betray your position and ammunition is easy to make.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:48 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:


I think this is real fascist dystopia stuff, and I wouldn't put it past our beloved leaders, but I don't see us quite there yet.

The Operative word here, is "yet."

Let me clue you in on their thinking: The peeps in power DO NOT believe in God- they DO NOT truly love their families or their fellow man- they are disillusioned by the success they themselves have achieved through no *real* work of their own, and they believe in that old bumper-sticker meme, "The one who dies with the most toys wins."
Good food, good sex, good times. That's it.

Screw us, the little people.

That, is, of course, not every rich person. But enough to keep the world f***ed.


The Dark Chrisisall


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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:57 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

You're better off with a crossbow made from a strong wood with the bow cut from an automotive leaf spring and using an emergency brake cable for the "string" - there's a couple good designs for that floating around and in a real total meltdown it would be invaluable as you can replace the "string" quickly with minimal tools, it's very quiet in it's operation with no muzzle flash to betray your position and ammunition is easy to make.


Good weapon note- though I prefer my Samurai sword & nunchaku due to my strange childhood. But I'll keep it in mind, definitely.
I'm not getting any older.
(Heh, Angel line)


The laughing Chrisisall


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Wednesday, July 21, 2010 6:21 PM

DREAMTROVE


Chris

I think this is all about family values: Their families. It strikes me that all of this fits very well into an incredibly primitive clan/tribe mindset.

Eugenics=kill all the non-us, to make more room for us.
Landgrab=the land is for us.
environmental destruction=kill all the food that makes animals because they're non-us. Make it farmland
biofuels=make sure it don't make food until we need it to make more us.
war=make the non-us kill each other.
money=make them all work for us
media=we tell the non-us what to think, how to act. make sure they don't talk to each other or think or they might figure it out.
public education=they're thinking again. make them stop.
law=kill them or lock them up if they don't do what we say, make sure they don't have babies.
abortion=kill all the non-us babies
globalism=there's non-us in the world running their own affairs. stop them. stop them a lot.

Make them stupid-happy-scared in debt. They will love us. We were meant to rule. You want us to have the big stick. Give us the big stick. We rule you. See? We have the big stick.



While I'm at it


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Thursday, July 22, 2010 6:49 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Yeah, okay, I guess that's true. Some slugs are made to intentionally flatten on impact to make a bigger entry and exit wound.

Still can't imagine gold being worth more than food and water, if things come to that.



Don't imagine it , then.

You got a Berkefeld water filter ? Might wanna look to that...

Meanwhile , more reading , to sustain the discussion.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20210

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:02 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


O2B/anyone - are you going to watch The Colony coming up on Discovery, July 27th?

"50 days with no water or power and no contact (um maybe) with the outside world..."

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/colony/

The first one was hokey and contrived, but I still watch every ep.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:35 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Don't imagine it , then.

You got a Berkefeld water filter ? Might wanna look to that...



Uh, actually, I have one. Katadyn brand. I'm a hiker, I live in Utah. I'd be stupid (and dead) if I didn't.

Technically we do get a lot of our water along the Wasatch front from creek run off, but that's controlled by reservoirs up in the mountains. I'm imagining the population of Salt Lake City trying to subsist along the rivers and lakes in the mountains, and I don't think this is a good long term solution.

If you have a gun, then that'll secure your own water and survival, but you're really seriously talking actual water wars if it gets this bad. I'm still standing by my claim that out here water will be a lot more precious than gold.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 5:56 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
O2B/anyone - are you going to watch The Colony coming up on Discovery, July 27th?

"50 days with no water or power and no contact (um maybe) with the outside world..."

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/colony/

The first one was hokey and contrived, but I still watch every ep.



I'll probably see some of them...It will be interesting , at times , I'm sure...I don't watch much on the tube , due to time constraints...

Funny thing about that show , I was given an invite to try out for it , which would've been fun , but I got to thinking that I should be getting more prepared for actual disasters that loom on our horizon , rather than some that are simulated or contrived on teevee...

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Friday, July 23, 2010 6:02 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Don't imagine it , then.

You got a Berkefeld water filter ? Might wanna look to that...



Uh, actually, I have one. Katadyn brand. I'm a hiker, I live in Utah. I'd be stupid (and dead) if I didn't.

...If you have a gun, then that'll secure your own water and survival, but you're really seriously talking actual water wars if it gets this bad. I'm still standing by my claim that out here water will be a lot more precious than gold.



Not disagreeing , baobei...

The reason to have some metals is strictly for the purpose of preserving some wealth while planning and purchasing for long-term survival needs...

When we began this discussion more than a couple years ago , gold was trading in the $ 750 /oz range , and this year , has been above $ 1200. There's likely a lot more upside in gold , but the prospects for silver are probably far better.

Prospects for Federal Reserve Notes ? Long-term , luxury 'branded' toilet paper...

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Friday, July 23, 2010 7:14 AM

BYTEMITE


Speaking of which, I really need to look into that crossbow thing Frem mentioned in response to the limitations on availability of gunpowder. Very cool.

And, okay, yeah, obviously the dollar is going to go to hell, but whether the gold investment gambit pays off is really a matter of whether people have faith in any form of currency, gold standard or otherwise. That's not something I think we can predict... Though I guess if you're running with people who ALSO believe in a gold standard currency, you might be okay.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 8:47 AM

CLEBURNE61


Hey guys, I'm new to this site, but not a new Browncoat. I just thought I'd try to add some explanation to the topic of inflation/sold-silver/and shortages.

Some folks had some good questions: why buy gold and silver if there won't be anything to buy with it?

First, it's important to identify what actually causes shortages of...anything. Shortages are caused by undervaluation. If, say, a watermelon is fairly scarce, it needs a price high enough to keep too many folks from buying it, and hence, causing a shortage. Shortages only occur because the object is underpriced(usually forcefully), and everyone knows it, and too many folks buy it at once.

Shortages don't normally occur in a free-market because the market quickly adjusts to the realities of supply, if there's not enough, prices go way up. Simple so far.

What causes empty shelves, or long lines and rationing at gas stations is when governments, mafias, etc(somebody with power) forces businessmen to charge a certain price: in other words, they impose price ceilings. Watermelons won't run out UNLESS a government tells farmers or retailers, "you can't sell this watermelon for over $3.00, when the market value is normally 5$."

But since inflation is coming, and rising prices will hurt alot of folks, governments are going to impose price controls for political reasons. They did it in the 1930's during the Depression, and they did it during the 70's, which caused gasoline shortages.

The point of gold and silver is...when the price controls come, it will be because no one really wants the paper anymore, because the value we've been forced to pay won't reflect reality. Gold and silver's prices always rapidly adjust to reflect real value during inflationary times. If that gallon of gas isn't for sale at paper prices, much less the imposed false one, folks will want to take something of real value for scarce goods. Scarce currency(precious metals) always fit the bill nicely.

Real, fair-valued currency will prevent shortages from happening in the first place. The dollar isn't fairly valued. Our debt to GDP ratio is 90%, and at this rate it will be 120% within 2 years. Remember what happened to Iceland, remember what just happened to Greece. We're next. Our debt problems are same as theirs.

At the end of the German depression(the 1920's) inflation got so out of control, that a 3 storey building in downtown Berlin sold for 1 oz of gold. In other words, whoever was smart enough to pay 100 marks for one oz before the inflation started, was then able to acquire prime real-estate(this purchase would've been before WWII, and thus the city was still beautiful) for just 100 marks, or roughly $20. It's the world's oldest currency, accepted everywhere, and it's a stateless currency, meaning the Feds' actions won't destroy its value. Don't let 'the Alliance' take what's yours just because they can't control their debts. Protect yourself.

"Governments exist to get in a man's way." -Mal

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:17 AM

BYTEMITE


Right, I understand supply and demand. What I don't get is demand when the product in question has no real use, or people claiming that a product is worth more than food or water when food or water has a very important and obvious use.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:27 AM

CLEBURNE61


I see. Silver is so versatile. It is the world's best conductor of electricty. It is the world's best conductor of heat. It is used for nano-wires, for water purification systems. It is the world's most reflective metal. It is used in virtually all mirrors, and now it is used in solar mirror panels for solar energy. It is also a natural biocide: it naturally kills all forms of bacteria, even staph infections. It also is money.

Gold has less practical uses than that. Though used in dental procedures, bone treatments, alcoholic beverages, and jewelry, it really has one major use: money. Just as coal only really has one use: heat & energy. Doesn't make coal less precious or useful.

"Governments exist to get in a man's way." -Mal

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:31 AM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Right, I understand supply and demand. What I don't get is demand when the product in question has no real use, or people claiming that a product is worth more than food or water when food or water has a very important and obvious use.


It's value is it scarcity. When paper money has no value, people will look for a new way of storing wealth. It could be anything that is scarce and that people agree to use. Historically precious metals have been the agreed on default currency and I see no reason why that will change. As in the above example, watermelons will always have value, but if a farmer has a thousand unsold watermelons they soon become worthless. Trading watermelons for gold enables the farmer to store his watermelon wealth because he knows that others will also accept gold in exchange for their produce.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:45 AM

BYTEMITE


Being scarce is not necessarily a reason for value.

A sunset happens only once a day, and while it's really pretty, and I definitely appreciate it, I wouldn't pay to see it, or pay for a picture of it, even though that particular sunset is gone.

Again, this goes back to the supply and demand. I understand there's demand, because there isn't much supply. The question I'm asking all of you, is WHY. Why is there demand when there's no use? Why does a limited supply matter for something with no use?

Quote:

Historically precious metals have been the agreed on default currency and I see no reason why that will change.


Why?


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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:52 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

The value of precious metals assumes a largely intact economy and government structure. Thus the assurance that the precious metal can be traded to someone, somewhere, who will value it. In a weak economy with high inflation, gold and silver may still be valuable commodities because there is still someone, somewhere who wants gold and silver and recognizes its value. The trade system is functioning well enough to transport that wealth, so whoever has the gold knows it is a type of universally exchangeable currency.

So perhaps the cry should be, "Invest in Gold, your friend during a weak economy" and not, "An economic freefall with no end in sight is on the horizon! An armageddon! Invest in gold!"

Because if things ever do actually collapse, not just weaken, then the gold is useless in the struggle for survival. No one will want an ounce or even a pound of gold for their food or water. A brick of gold won't buy you a cheeseburger in a place with no functioning government or economy, unless someone really wants a paperweight.

Barter is the solution for ruined trade systems, and that means actually having what someone needs, and trading for what you need. If there is a massive economic collapse resulting in a broken government, I think that no one in my neighborhood will be very anxious to trade for gold. Generally, everyone needs to eat, drink, clothe themselves, and protect themselves. You may add in the ability to generate light and heat, depending on where you live. Possibly muscle-transportation will become suddenly more valuable. Very basic stuff. Owning 500 candles may be worth more in such a situation than owning 500 gold sovereigns.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:55 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Gold, silver, platinum = intrinsic value.

Paper Obamamoney = toilet paper.

My 2 cents... err.. whats the value right now of 2 cents in terms of actual value of currency? Like, does 2 cents mean a teardrop of silver?

Hard to keep up in Obamanomics... it keeps changing and going from bad to worthless.

"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 9:56 AM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Being scarce is not necessarily a reason for value.

A sunset happens only once a day, and while it's really pretty, and I definitely appreciate it, I wouldn't pay to see it, or pay for a picture of it, even though that particular sunset is gone.

Again, this goes back to the supply and demand. I understand there's demand, because there isn't much supply. The question I'm asking all of you, is WHY. Why is there demand when there's no use? Why does a limited supply matter for something with no use?

Quote:

Historically precious metals have been the agreed on default currency and I see no reason why that will change.


Why?



Gold is scarce and shinny is the only reason I can think of. The shinny part made it coveted by early peoples and in times of hardship they found that people attracted to the shinny metal would give the food in exchange for it. There's really no reason that gold is any better than any other scare commodity as a store of wealth, it just happens to be the historically agreed upon one.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 10:02 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

As in the above example, watermelons will always have value, but if a farmer has a thousand unsold watermelons they soon become worthless. Trading watermelons for gold enables the farmer to store his watermelon wealth because he knows that others will also accept gold in exchange for their produce.


A watermelon would seem to not have worth until someone wants one. A thousand watermelons has no worth if no one wants one. Watermelons go bad, so if just one watermelon gets traded/sold, gold allows the farmer to retain something from the effort of raising the watermelon, in a form of wealth that doesn't go bad.

...

What's to stop people from treating clothing, fabric, and other non-perishables the same way? I mean, that's the way silk, salt, and spices used to get treated. In fact, "salt" is where the word "salary" comes from.

I think the key word here is "agreement." Unless your society agrees to place a value in gold, there's no value. So you guys talking about investing in gold, if other people around you see value in gold and can work the gold, and there are also people who can provide basic goods and services who agree to place value in gold, you're fine. But if you have gold in a place where no one is accepting it, or there aren't basic goods and services, you're going to have a problem.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 10:07 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Again...

In Siberia... the currency is bullets, and vodka.

However, im sure you can find someone to trade you bullets and vodka for gold.



"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."

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Friday, July 23, 2010 10:41 AM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
A watermelon would seem to not have worth until someone wants one. A thousand watermelons has no worth if no one wants one. Watermelons go bad, so if just one watermelon gets traded/sold, gold allows the farmer to retain something from the effort of raising the watermelon, in a form of wealth that doesn't go bad.



People always want watermelons. In a particular locality that is watermelon rich their value may be reduced, but as long as trade is posible someone somewhere will want them. If I'm a trader travelling across country to sell my goods and I come across community that wants my goods but has nothing that my home comunity needs, I might accept gold in the hopes that I can use it later for goods that will have value in my comunity. On they way home I happen to see a farmer selling watermelons at a ridiculously low price because of surplus of melons locally, so give him some gold and take the melons to my comunity were they are in great demand. Gold facilitates the efficient trade of goods because barter is not always possible when all you have to trade is watermelons.

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Friday, July 23, 2010 12:04 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Don't forget booze as currency - not only does it have minimal storage requirements and a long shelf life, it's value actually increases as you hang on to it, much like interest.

In fact, the capability to produce alcohol as a consumable for other uses than drinking is an invaluable skill when things get ugly.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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