Hee, hee, hee...man, the news is FULL of funnies today. Poor Catholic Church; Poor Pope; they're having a rough time of it lately, aren't they? And all..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Pope's preacher compares abuse fury to anti-Semitism

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, April 3, 2010 07:55
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 830
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, April 2, 2010 11:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hee, hee, hee...man, the news is FULL of funnies today. Poor Catholic Church; Poor Pope; they're having a rough time of it lately, aren't they? And all on Easter Week...how appropriate.

Jesus rises from the dead.
Catholic Church abuses children.

I can't help it, organized religion is a joke all unto itself sometimes!
Quote:

Pope Benedict XVI's personal preacher on Friday compared the fury aimed at the Catholic leadership because of sexual abuse within the Church to aspects of anti-Semitism.

Noting that Easter falls in the same week as the Jewish holiday of Passover this year, the Rev. Raniero Cantalamessa said, "This makes us make a thought to our Jewish brothers.

"They know from experience what it means to be victims of the collective violence, and because of this, they are able to recognize the reoccurring symptoms."

He then quoted what he said was a letter from a Jewish friend. "I am following with disgust the violent and concentric attack against the church, the pope and all the faithful from the whole world," the letter said.

"The use of the stereotype, the passage from the responsibility and personal wrong to that of the whole reminds us of the most shameful aspects of anti-Semitism."

But Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi said Cantalamessa was not espousing "the Vatican's official position."

"The Vatican is not trying to draw a parallel between the church and anti-Semitism," Lombardi said. "The intention of the preacher was to express a Jewish man's thoughts, his suffering and experience. He was not trying to compare the church with anti-Semitism.

"It is not the intention of the Vatican to compare the criticism it is currently receiving with anti-Semitism," Lombardi added.

Cantalamessa, preacher of the pontifical household, made the remarks at a Good Friday commemoration.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/02/vatican.antisemitism/index.
html?hpt=Sbin


Like the Jews were persecuted for sexually abusing children then hiding it for decades!!!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 2, 2010 11:38 AM

MINCINGBEAST


christopher hitchens has been brilliant on this subject. which is no surprise, because with the possible exception of pee wee herman, hitch is the greatest man living. i recommend the following:

http://www.slate.com/id/2249130/
http://www.slate.com/id/2248557/
http://www.slate.com/id/2247861/

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Friday, April 2, 2010 11:49 AM

TRAVELER


The Vatican keeps digging a deeper hole. Fortunately there are a few clerics who are stating these accusations need to be addressed. The Pope is running out of things to hide behind. Considering his own history about the holocaust it is a wonder the Pope uses it now and in such a disgusting manner.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, April 2, 2010 11:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, well DONE Mincing, thank you! He writes really well. I especially liked
Quote:

Here's a little thought experiment on practical ethics. Suppose that you are having a drink with a new acquaintance and the subject of law-breaking comes up. "Ever been in any trouble with the authorities?"

You may perhaps mention your arrest at a demonstration, your smuggling of excess duty-free goods, that brush with the narcotics people, that unwise attempt at insider trading. Your counterpart may show a closer acquaintance with the criminal justice system. He once did a bit of time for forgery, or for robbery with a touch of violence, or for a domestic dispute that got a bit out of hand. You are still perhaps ready to have lunch next Friday. But what if he says: "Well, I once knew a couple who trusted me as their baby sitter. Two little boys they had—one of 12 and one of 10. A good bit of fun I had with those kids when nobody was looking. Told them it was our secret. I was sorry when it all ended." I hope I don't seem too judgmental if I say that at this point the lunch is canceled or indefinitely postponed.

and
Quote:

On March 10, the chief exorcist of the Vatican, the Rev. Gabriele Amorth (who has held this demanding post for 25 years), was quoted as saying that "the Devil is at work inside the Vatican," and that "when one speaks of 'the smoke of Satan' in the holy rooms, it is all true—including these latest stories of violence and pedophilia." This can perhaps be taken as confirmation that something horrible has indeed been going on in the holy precincts, though most inquiries show it to have a perfectly good material explanation.
YESSSSS! I say EXORCISE THOSE BASTARDS, one and all!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 2, 2010 12:12 PM

MAL4PREZ


It all connects back to that "Authoritarian" mindset, and the way it must, always, no matter what mental gymnastics and crimes against reason are required, make of itself the victim.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, April 2, 2010 12:26 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


There you go, Mal4; and those sad, blinders-wearing religious authoritarian followers will no doubt ignore it, minimize it, or "forgive" them all, won't they?


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 2, 2010 12:36 PM

MAL4PREZ


Because Daddy can't be wrong! Never! Geez.

I don't think the church will get through this unscathed though. Some followers will stick with it, but the organization was taking a nose dive already. With these scandals, the world-wide reign of the Pope is over.

I hope something more transparent, less Authoritarian, and more open-minded eventually replaces the current leadership structure. Do you think that's possible?

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, April 2, 2010 12:39 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I definitely think it's possible. What other religion has had such a tight hold on the masses? And what other religion has had it's entire belief system embodied in ONE, untouchable, infallible person? Would be lovely to see all that pomp and circumstance disappear, maybe priests care more for their congregation as actual HUMAN BEINGS, whether gay, female or anything else.

Yeah, I know, I'm a dreamer...but it HAS been taking a nose dive for a long time now, would be wonderful if people kept abandoning it...sigh...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Friday, April 2, 2010 12:51 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Would be lovely to see all that pomp and circumstance disappear, maybe priests care more for their congregation as actual HUMAN BEINGS, whether gay, female or anything else.

It would seem like the logical thing, given events of the past decade or so, to get a progressive as pope and start moving into the modern world. Accept gays, allow women to preach, just generally allow more personal freedoms. They'll need to do that, or continue to decline.

Did you ever read the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons? The Catholic Church had all but disappeared, but then they got hold of a means of immortality. Everyone who joined could live forever, even "rise again" when they died in an accident. (How Easter-y is that? LOL!) The Church quickly took over everything again: politics as well as religion. It was a great metaphor. All the books are good reads too.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, April 2, 2010 1:32 PM

TRAVELER


I have been keeping up with these articles and the comments about them on the net. There are people out there who believe the church has to get rid of the gays and allow marriage to stop this abuse.

I have informed them, with counter posts, that pedophilia has nothing to do with being gay and that married people are also known to commit these crimes. In otherwords, get educated.

Ignorance is out there. A lot of people don't understand nor even bother to learn about pedophilia. It must be the gays infiltrating the church.

I am beginning to understand who Jesus was refering to when he said, "Father forgive them".

Comparing the attack on the Pope with the holocaust is so pathetic. What piece of trash can the Vatican follow this with?


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, April 2, 2010 2:43 PM

HKCAVALIER


Y'know, traveler, I don't want to take this too far and I hope you understand what I'm saying and I emphatically agree that homosexuality has NOTHING to do with pedophilia, but:

There is a serious problem in what I'll call "priest culture" that I think accounts for some of the problem here. Boys are pushed in the direction of the priesthood at such a young age, their normal human sexual development so neglected/suppressed/demonized/flat-out denied, that their sexualities will tend toward the infantile--developmentally speaking and the perverse, given the amount of suppression and neglect. Couple that with the crazy Catholic notion that all sin is the same sin, and you get a culture tailer-made to create unhealthy sexual acting out. When priests are told that all sexual acting out is equally sinful, told that their sexuality has NO appropriate outlet, you're just looking for trouble.

What I'm saying is that the Catholic Church has, quite by accident (it is devoutly to be hoped!) hit upon a recipe for a kind of developmentally disabled sexuality with nowhere to go and this is what you get. Not all priests are predators, of course, some manage to deal with their sexuality in a more or less healthy way (most notably, and ironically, the gay one's I've known!). It's just something that happens within the Catholic Church more than other places and I think there's a reason.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, April 2, 2010 2:53 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
What I'm saying is that the Catholic Church has, quite by accident (it is devoutly to be hoped!) hit upon a recipe for a kind of developmentally disabled sexuality with nowhere to go and this is what you get.

I agree with you HK, that something in the church culture is contributing to this. But I think the danger comes in making this "sexual disability" out to be the same thing as homosexuality. You're not doing that, even said so, but those nutters out there are.

Preying on children is not a "gay" thing. "Gay" is between two consenting adults. It's completely different. I know you know that, but it's frightening how many people don't.

Traveler: I'm wondering if I've seen your posts elsewhere. I read comments on other sites about this very thing and have been tempted to sign up several times. But then other people have chimed in to say what I wanted to. So thanks!

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, April 2, 2010 3:04 PM

FREMDFIRMA



The more you suppress a persons humanity, the more twisted the form in which it will finally express itself, and it WILL express itself, in much the same fashion a tree root does to a sidewalk.

And the sidewalk never, EVER wins.

Any "religion" that denies a humans basic humanity is of itself sick, twisted, inhumane, and as such I have no respect for it.

This is but a symptom of that root cause.

-Frem

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Friday, April 2, 2010 4:08 PM

TRAVELER


I agree about celibacy applying stress. I could not live that way. This may be the root of it in the Catholic Church. So this could be considered different from a non-cleric pedophile. I am also in the belief that very few clerics are guilty of this act. It is always the few that create the biggest roar. And when protected for decades they cause a lot of damage.

My anger is aimed more at those who cover it up and the ignorance that surrounds it. And attacking gays has been part of it. I have gay friends and they would find this as abhorrent as any other being. So I find myself posting comments about peoples misconception with gays being pedophiles more then on the churches cover-up in the Newsvine comments section of these articles. Fortunately I found there are many who do understand.

I also need to add this. Apparently the quotes from this service are from a Jewish friend of the priest, so they are not all his words, but I feel it was a bad choice to use them in his sermon. I regret puting the whole blame on the Vatican for this one man. But they need to stop being so defensive and start taking action.





http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 5:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I wholeheartedly agree about the sexuality. It is a stupid tenant of the religion, and one that exemplifies the blindness of the desire for power. I read somewhere that it was originally to keep women down as an influence, not to "give oneself over" to God, and that fits.
Quote:

A common critique of theistic religion is the extent to which religious rules and doctrines created by human beings for the purpose of maintaining power and control over others are attributed to a divine source. Pretending that human rules are God's rules help prevent them from changing or being questioned. A strong example of this is the celibacy of priests in Catholic Christianity, as demonstrated by its historical development and lack of consistent adherence.

If there were any divine origin to religious rules, we shouldn't be able to trace their development in human history and how they were conditioned by historical, cultural circumstances. It's no surprise that churches say little about how today's doctrines did not always exist in the past and, in fact, aren't as absolute as they seem. Again, clerical celibacy in Catholicism is a good example of this.

Real Reasons for Celibacy: Land, Purity, Women
Celibacy has not always been required of priests. Defenders of celibacy rely heavily on Matthew 19:12, where Jesus is quoted as saying that "...they have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept this." Here, "eunuchs" is interpreted to be a reference renouncing marriage and being celibate, but if Jesus placed such a high value on celibacy, why were most if not all of his apostles married? It's implausible that unmarried followers could not be found, so it's implausible that celibacy was required.

Over time, rules about sexual abstinence grew from a belief that sexual intercourse makes a person "unclean," based largely on the belief that women are less pure than men and hence constitute a form of ritual contamination. Attitudes about ritual cleanliness have played an important role in religious violence generally; attitudes about the inferiority of women have been important in violence towards them. In fact, the continued existence of an all-male, celibate priesthood cannot be divorced from an accompanying view of women as less moral and less worthy than men.

The denigration of both women and sex was accompanied by a denigration of marriage and family.

Another factor in the push for clerical celibacy was the problematic relationship the Catholic Church had with real estate and inherited land. Priests and bishops were not just religious leaders, they also had political power based on the land they controlled. When they died, the land might go to church or the man's heirs — and naturally the church wanted to keep the land in order to retain political power.

Tthe best way to keep the land was to ensure that no rivals could claim it; keeping the clergy celibate and unmarried was the easiest way to accomplish this. Making celibacy a religious obligation was also the best way to ensure that the clergy obeyed. Catholic apologists deny that such worldly concerns were part of the decision to impose celibacy on priests, but it can't be a coincidence that the final push towards celibacy occurred when conflict over land were increasing.

http://atheism.about.com/od/romancatholicism/a/celibacy.htm

The idea of celebacy may have always been couched in religious terms, but that's not what's behind it, in my opinion. Certainly that's what potential priests are told, and no doubt believe, but its origins go back to very human motivations, and one motivation not at all unusual in organized religion or humankind: Control.

Personally, I think it's sick...as everyone else has said, if you curb natural impulses, human nature will frequentl find a "way" around. Perhaps may clerics do maintain complete sexuality, but what I've learned over a lifetime is that is such a genetically incredible urge in men that it's more often than not bound to come out somewhere.

And unquestionably yes, my anger is reserved for the coverups; human nature finding a way to "out" is bad enough, but the coverups are indefensible!


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 7:52 AM

MAL4PREZ


It's so over for the pope. New proof that he KNEW of abuse and did nothing:

In a signed letter dated June 8, 1992, Ratzinger advised Moreno he was taking control of the case, according to a copy provided to the AP from Cadigan, the victims' attorney. Five years later, no action had been taken.

"This case has already gone on for seven years," Moreno wrote Ratzinger on April 28, 1997, adding, "I make this plea to you to assist me in every way you can to expedite this case."

It would be another seven years before Teta was laicized.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/03/more-evidence-emerges-tha_n_5
24192.html


That's 12 years between the pope-to-be taking charge of a case and something actually being done. That's just disgusting.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Saturday, April 3, 2010 7:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Betcha he won't. He's claiming "head of state" immunity, and the Church is pretty powerful and twice as immovable. We'll see...


"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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