REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

China tells Obama, 'We own the United States'

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Thursday, November 26, 2009 04:59
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Monday, November 23, 2009 10:15 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

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Monday, November 23, 2009 10:21 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


I wish they will soon foreclose and kick all the Washington assholes to the curb




Tom Clancy sure got that one ass backwards lmao





Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 10:50 AM

BYTEMITE


I'd love to see the corrupt get their comeuppance as well, but I hope I'm dead at the time. I see nothing to indicate that the Chinese won't be anything but brutal towards all Americans, not just our government. The whole thing could precipitate a hostile Chinese takeover. What are goverments nowadays but big corporations? Same principle.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 11:07 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'd love to see the corrupt get their comeuppance as well, but I hope I'm dead at the time. I see nothing to indicate that the Chinese won't be anything but brutal towards all Americans, not just our government.



If Obama's masters like Brezinski have their way with US, WW3 will include China nuking USA.

China owns the Panama Canal, most US ports, and US airports like Memphis TN have most signs in Chinese.

At least SNL finally grew some nuts. I wonder how many writers got fired after that epp?


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Monday, November 23, 2009 12:05 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'd love to see the corrupt get their comeuppance as well, but I hope I'm dead at the time. I see nothing to indicate that the Chinese won't be anything but brutal towards all Americans, not just our government. The whole thing could precipitate a hostile Chinese takeover. What are goverments nowadays but big corporations? Same principle.




I think the fear is overrated

when the United States is broken into Special Administrative Regions, similar to Hong Kong but likely five or six areas due to the size of the US there will be no reason for brutality.

The focus will move to productivity or manufacturing away from the artificial promotion of Wall street and casino economics.

Any brutality towards Americans will be due to either arrogance and ignorance ( no shortage )... or more likely folk conducting domestic terrorism against the new boss in a vain effort to maintain the failed experiment in which they were the slaves but just didn't know it.




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 12:13 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I think the fear is overrated

when the United States is broken into Special Administrative Regions, similar to Hong Kong but likely five or six areas due to the size of the US there will be no reason for brutality.

The focus will move to productivity or manufacturing away from the artificial promotion of Wall street and casino economics.

Any brutality towards Americans will be due to either arrogance and ignorance ( no shortage )... or more likely folk conducting domestic terrorism against the new boss in a vain effort to maintain the failed experiment in which they were the slaves but just didn't know it.



Granted we're in a slave experiment now, but just because we'd "just" be under a new slave experiment with China doesn't mean that wouldn't be WORSE.

You really don't think the Chinese wouldn't lord it over the American population? Really? I see Americans as being unlikely to swear loyalty to the new Chinese overlords, which China will crack down on, HARD, like they do to their own population, or populations they consider under their jurisdiction (Tibet, Nepal, the borderland tribes). Surprisingly, Chinese Americans would most likely suffer the worst of it, as they might potentially be seen as traitors to the homeland.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 12:25 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




The slave experiment will result in US factories owned by Commie China. In China managers who fail to meet their quota are marched out back and get a bullet in the head. Next!




www.reddawn2010.com




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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:06 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

I think the fear is overrated

when the United States is broken into Special Administrative Regions, similar to Hong Kong but likely five or six areas due to the size of the US there will be no reason for brutality.

The focus will move to productivity or manufacturing away from the artificial promotion of Wall street and casino economics.

Any brutality towards Americans will be due to either arrogance and ignorance ( no shortage )... or more likely folk conducting domestic terrorism against the new boss in a vain effort to maintain the failed experiment in which they were the slaves but just didn't know it.



Granted we're in a slave experiment now, but just because we'd "just" be under a new slave experiment with China doesn't mean that wouldn't be WORSE.

You really don't think the Chinese wouldn't lord it over the American population? Really? I see Americans as being unlikely to swear loyalty to the new Chinese overlords, which China will crack down on, HARD, like they do to their own population, or populations they consider under their jurisdiction (Tibet, Nepal, the borderland tribes). Surprisingly, Chinese Americans would most likely suffer the worst of it, as they might potentially be seen as traitors to the homeland.



If you think of Hong Kong as the example instead of Tibet ( I doubt they would try a homerule type scenario, that would be as unworkable as what is going on in Afghanistan )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong

They don't care about loyalty, they want business as usual, or perhaps with more efficiency.. Doubt they would bail GM out...

They want a massive return on their massive investment, so productivity, jobs, profits all become the important thing.

They wanted production out of Hong Kong so they made it a Special Administrative Region... kept what was working, working and only changed the things that didn't... and even then minimally.

I think the Chinese recognize the limitations of their system, and why it wouldn't work anywhere and everywhere ( unlike Americans ) China is gradually changing, but will never change overnight, look at the Russians and the chaos that caused.

Any " takeover " would probably benefit the American people, a move away from the propped up economic system which seems to reward failure, and periodically fall apart completely. As with Hong Kong, they would leave a system of representation, but not one where the representative acts against the common good as easily anyway. Likely the same faces as now too, just delete the influence of the Lobbyists and Special Interest Groups.


The only problem with this idea, is also the reason why China is so slow with its own changes. Once PN and the thousands of misguided folk started running around with their weapons playing Red Dawn shooting up whatever, that act of domestic terror will trigger the crackdown you fear. And it won't be China they are fighting, China will simply deploy whatever is left of the US military against them backed up by Blackwater and their ilk.

China cannot and will not tolerate any insurgency... read about the effects of the Boxer rebellion, or the warlord era, or the post WW2 civil war... they will put down any use of arms against them quickly and brutally to prevent its spread, mind you that is the right of a country to put down insurrectionists...

Chinese Americans may suffer worst of all, but i would bet that suffering would be at the hands of " American Patriots " more so than China




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:32 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


To cut the head off Commie China, you must first decapitate the jewish banksters in NY City, London, Europe and Israel that own the stock markets and central banks that counterfeit all money and seize all fed taxes. A head-to-head battle with any nation is doomed to failure. We can't even beat Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan.



NY City's Empire State Building glows red in honor of 60th anniversary of Communist China
www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=111400










"As far as Chinese goes, I resented it."
-Alan Tudyk, The Making of Firefly
(video censored by youtube)

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So did anyone else notice that it was a SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE sketch?

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:46 PM

BYTEMITE


You're... saying... It would be okay to to have a Chinese takeover if they introduced stability?

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:46 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yes, hee, hee, hee, I was wondering about that.

I don't see a takeover; I think we would be too cumbersome to govern, and they pretty much have, or will have as things are going, just about where they want us.

I don't think they'd fancy another revolution of the size and capability the American people would put forth if they tried.

Color me naive maybe, but I think the financial takeover is working quite well, thank you, albeit slowly.




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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
You're... saying... It would be okay to to have a Chinese takeover if they introduced stability?




Huh? Was that aimed at me?

It might come in handy to hit "Reply with Quote" on some of these.

I wasn't saying ANYTHING, except that PN's "source" for the imminent ChiCom takeover of the United States is... an SNL sketch. I wonder if he can corroborate that "news" with some confirmation from The Onion. Or FauxNews. Either of them are about the same.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 1:59 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
You're... saying... It would be okay to to have a Chinese takeover if they introduced stability?




Americans overlords, Chinese overlords...

at least the chinese would try to make productive changes





Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:04 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So did anyone else notice that it was a SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE sketch?



The best humor is Truth. Obama has already borrowed more money than all other US presidents combined. Commie China is the largest lender to the US Govt.

Quote:

In May 2009, the US owed China $772 billion.

The debt limit was most recently raised to $12.104 trillion by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (H.R.1), which was signed into law on February 17, 2009 (P.L. 111-5).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt





Total actual debt obligations of US Govt is $70-trillion. That's $230,000 debt for every US citizen, not counting interest and late penalties. No way to recover from that.


"Not one dime of income taxes goes to support any federal program."
-President Ronald Reagan, right before George Bushes' CIA cousin John Hinkley Jr shot him
(released from loonybin by George Bush Jr and Hussein Obama Soetoro)

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:04 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Jezus no, Gino, how can you say that? ...we've never been taken over by a foreign power and I don't want us to be. We muddle through--not well, but you really think China has managed "stability"??? If not, then how can you conceive they could manage it here?

Given their human-rights attitude, I think it would be totally disasterous and, as I said, quickly lead to a revolution I don't think they're interested in having.




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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:16 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


I think the US needs change,... change that will not come from within

Obama was the last hope... and he failed


the citizens of the US cannot get their gov under control so why not hope someone kicks the anthill...


change through conflict


How many have suffered from American sponsored regime change... maybe a little regime change at home would be good for the soul


Go Vorlons Go




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:24 PM

BYTEMITE


Kwicko: No, that was directed towards Gino, who right now, no offense or anything, is kinda making me go o.0

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:30 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Americans overlords, Chinese overlords...

at least the chinese would try to make productive changes



Because PRODUCTION is all that matters. People? Not so much. That right?

Quote:

How many have suffered from American sponsored regime change... maybe a little regime change at home would be good for the soul


Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like the people from either party, I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.

But I'm not about to start advocating a whole bunch of innocent, if ignorant people have to start suffering because of what other people have done. You want a comparison to the middle east? What you're proposing is like saying we should kill and oppress all the Muslims because a few of them are extremists.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:31 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Kwicko: No, that was directed towards Gino, who right now, no offense or anything, is kinda making me go o.0




Sorry don't mean to upset you,

just it my view I condemn the United States and China as equals. As partners or as a boss / employee as they effect the rest of the world I would say the US is worse. At least China acts the way it does to preserve order...

You have another view, I respect that. But I'll debate the other side as long as you like, because in the long view I think I'm right.




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:33 PM

DREAMTROVE


Rofl,

I thought that was pretty funny.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:41 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Americans overlords, Chinese overlords...

at least the chinese would try to make productive changes



Because PRODUCTION is all that matters. People? Not so much. That right?

Quote:

How many have suffered from American sponsored regime change... maybe a little regime change at home would be good for the soul


Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.

But I'm not about to start advocating a whole bunch of innocent, if ignorant people have to start suffering because of what other people have done. You want a comparison to the middle east? What you're proposing is like saying we should kill and oppress all the Muslims because a few of them are extremists.




Who is calling to kill or oppress anyone ?

If the focus is more on productivity... then the unemployment rate would drop significantly would it not?

And I am saying if there would be any violence it would be started by Americans fighting for a half understood cause, for the benefit of people and a system who treated them the same or worse for the past fifty years....

Say if they started fighting the present US gov in the same way, would not the FBI / Homeland Security / US military crackdown be quite brutal ?


Revenge... Not so much. Change. How many times do we need to repeat the cycle before change becomes necessary. The US cannot escape its two party, with the candidates prescreened by TPTB system without outside intervention...

Any violence would be started by Americans



Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:43 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Rofl,

I thought that was pretty funny.



Which part?




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 2:50 PM

BYTEMITE


Apparently you don't think the Chinese government is oppressive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

Once again, o.0 ???

And it sure sounds like there'd be Americans killed, especially if the Chinese government labeled our "freedom fighters" insurgents.

But anyway. I have to object to this, again, because productivity is NOT the most important thing here.

I'd also suggest that China itself is not so much about productivity as it is busy work and feeding frivolous consumerism.

But... Your point about the US government and the staying power of the two party system and our national security forces is well taken.

I'm just saying that there has to be a better and less horrifying solution than a Chinese takeover.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 3:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like the people, I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.



Byte, you should know Gino better than that. He's yanking your Yankee chain.

What Gino's pointing out is that there are those outside the U.S. who could actually make a pretty good case to the UN that America NEEDS regime change for the safety and benefit of the free world, that we are a rogue nation led by a series of despots. And since China IS a pretty stable government these days, might not they be the best ones to inflict a new government on us?

It's just another way of having an OBJECTIVE look at what we did in Iraq, and saying that the same case could be made against us, if someone really had a mind to.

And the saddest part, the part that really breaks my heart? He's not wrong.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Monday, November 23, 2009 3:24 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Apparently you don't think the Chinese government is oppressive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989

Once again, o.0 ???

And it sure sounds like there'd be Americans killed, especially if the Chinese government labeled our "freedom fighters" insurgents.

But anyway. I have to object to this, again, because productivity is NOT the most important thing here.

I'd also suggest that China itself is not so much about productivity as it is busy work and feeding frivolous consumerism.

But... Your point about the US government and the staying power of the two party system and our national security forces is well taken.

I'm just saying that there has to be a better and less horrifying solution than a Chinese takeover.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Farm


I know what you are trying to say about my productivity point...

but is it better to have people lose their homes, to have them not able to feed, clothe, or provide healthcare to their family's ?


When say a car company decides to build 300 top end SUVs instead of 3000 base models because the profit margins are higher on the SUVs... and lay off 800 workers in the process... is that really to the benefit of people ?

frivolous consumerism ? is that not an American invention ?


Please... what is a better way? the Chinese already have bought the US economy... I think that is an opportunity

but if there is a better idea ? we have discussed this in other threads, and I see much frustration on this issue... but no realistic solutions... and with a Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin vote looming in the future .....

( and yes that does scare me, one is evil and knows it, they other a pawn of evil and doesn't understand it )





Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 3:47 PM

BYTEMITE


I'm familiar with all those events. What you don't seem to be understanding here is that if China were to be in control of America, I couldn't even be posting on this message board right now.

I guess that's one way to win this argument...

Quote:

but is it better to have people lose their homes, to have them not able to feed, clothe, or provide healthcare to their family's ?


They have that in China... That's not just an American thing...




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Monday, November 23, 2009 3:49 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like the people, I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.



Byte, you should know Gino better than that. He's yanking your Yankee chain.

What Gino's pointing out is that there are those outside the U.S. who could actually make a pretty good case to the UN that America NEEDS regime change for the safety and benefit of the free world, that we are a rogue nation led by a series of despots. And since China IS a pretty stable government these days, might not they be the best ones to inflict a new government on us?

It's just another way of having an OBJECTIVE look at what we did in Iraq, and saying that the same case could be made against us, if someone really had a mind to.

And the saddest part, the part that really breaks my heart? He's not wrong.




Yeah, but I never supported Iraq OR Afghanistan. And I'm getting the idea that Gino actually seems to think this would be a good idea. It wasn't a good idea for Iraq or Afghanistan!

So yes it's wrong! It was wrong then, and it's wrong in this imaginary scenario.

There are better ways to ruin the US government, and lucky for us, they're doing all of them all by themselves.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 4:08 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm familiar with all those events. What you don't seem to be understanding here is that if China were to be in control of America, I couldn't even be posting on this message board right now.

I guess that's one way to win this argument...

Quote:

but is it better to have people lose their homes, to have them not able to feed, clothe, or provide healthcare to their family's ?


They have that in China... That's not just an American thing...






No, instead we can chat as much as we liked monitored by your American security services subject to investigation and or arrest if they decide they want to...

I am sure China will expand their internet " freedoms " when their infrastructure allows them the same level of monitoring and control...

Now is the illusion of freedom much different that the perceived absence of freedom?

As for employment... my point is the Chinese government views job creation as something very important to combat social unrest

The current stimulus process in the US seems to provide bankers / investment houses with relief in the hopes of eventual job creation as a side effect. I watched a couple Senators last sunday on a program say no jobs have been created by the stimulus money yet, but they think some will come by the beginning of the second quarter next year.... is that good enough ?




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 4:17 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Yeah, so because some Americans are douchebags who have made mistakes, BAD mistakes, sometimes even foul INTENTIONAL AWFUL policy, all Americans should immediately suffer a regime change under brutal communist China so the rest of the world can get some mother fucking REVENGE. That what you saying? Sure sounds like it to me!

I don't like my American government. I don't like the people, I don't like how it works, and I even would go so far as to say I think our constitution is flawed, and hell, that we've probably even deviated from the spirit of it's intent right from the beginning.



Byte, you should know Gino better than that. He's yanking your Yankee chain.

What Gino's pointing out is that there are those outside the U.S. who could actually make a pretty good case to the UN that America NEEDS regime change for the safety and benefit of the free world, that we are a rogue nation led by a series of despots. And since China IS a pretty stable government these days, might not they be the best ones to inflict a new government on us?

It's just another way of having an OBJECTIVE look at what we did in Iraq, and saying that the same case could be made against us, if someone really had a mind to.

And the saddest part, the part that really breaks my heart? He's not wrong.




Yeah, but I never supported Iraq OR Afghanistan. And I'm getting the idea that Gino actually seems to think this would be a good idea. It wasn't a good idea for Iraq or Afghanistan!

So yes it's wrong! It was wrong then, and it's wrong in this imaginary scenario.

There are better ways to ruin the US government, and lucky for us, they're doing all of them all by themselves.



So where is your end game then ?

Allow things to go on as they are, maybe start another war with Iran... one your even less likely to find success in

maybe default on your international loans dragging the rest of the planets economic system down with you

where will this go in the next decade ?


BTW I think Afghanistan could have worked, I think it was tanked in the execution... and probably is beyond fixing now...




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 4:24 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

The current stimulus process in the US seems to provide bankers / investment houses with relief in the hopes of eventual job creation as a side effect. I watched a couple Senators last sunday on a program say no jobs have been created by the stimulus money yet, but they think some will come by the beginning of the second quarter next year.... is that good enough ?



The Free Healthcare Tax is just another bailout for the insurance corporations who wrote the bill, that Congress is neither allowed nor willing to read. 30-million Americans will still be without health insurance...

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Monday, November 23, 2009 4:27 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

The current stimulus process in the US seems to provide bankers / investment houses with relief in the hopes of eventual job creation as a side effect. I watched a couple Senators last sunday on a program say no jobs have been created by the stimulus money yet, but they think some will come by the beginning of the second quarter next year.... is that good enough ?



The Free Healthcare Tax is just another bailout for the insurance corporations who wrote the bill, that Congress is neither allowed nor willing to read. 30-million Americans will still be without health insurance...



That is why it was important to keep a public system option on the table...

sadly




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 5:32 PM

BYTEMITE


And yet, the moment America starts tanking, everyone is already talking about shifting to other currencies, etc.

Most countries have seen for a while America has been going down the tubes, I expect many of them have contingency plans. The ones who have been planning the furthest ahead would become the new global economy foundation.

The countries most effected would be Europe, but America crashing wouldn't be the end of the world. You've been listening to too much of our bullshit propaganda.

What you are proposing, however, is to enslave the American population, under China, to keep business as usual going in other countries around the world. Why? Because you blame America for this? The people you would punish would still have had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in economic or international policy. The people who you'd really want to punish would have jumped ship long before.

The greatest good, sacrificing a few for the many is what you're proposing. Guess what? It's unethical.

The Afghanistan war model was flawed from the beginning, as was the reason to go to war in Afghanistan. You don't declare war on Terrorism, then NOT go after the terrorist cells, which probably isn't a feasible long term goal anyway. Al Qaeda pretty much hated the Taliban, and vice versa. The Taliban weren't sheltering Al Qaeda, they're international. Of course, in Afghanistan, NOW the two are working together because they don't have much choice. But this is off topic.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 5:56 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

No, instead we can chat as much as we liked monitored by your American security services subject to investigation and or arrest if they decide they want to...

I am sure China will expand their internet " freedoms " when their infrastructure allows them the same level of monitoring and control...



This is an exaggeration first of all. Those of us in America smart enough to realize that yes, we are being wiretapped under the Patriot Act and that the government is working with search engines and e-mail services to monitor communication and those who have seen the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement know that the scenario you're describing is where we're HEADED. There was an independent news company who has been subpeona'd to give up private information on their users and who has been subject to server raids. Americans online complain and bitch and moan about it, yes.

But honestly, that's more just selective harrassment and isn't really the norm. Yes, the assholes doing the monitoring are, well, assholes, but look, they couldn't even stop some guy on an ARMY BASE who was supposedly posted about Jihad from shooting the whole shebang up (Assuming it wasn't a set-up, it probably was. Still). These guys are pretty much incompetent and easily outsmarted, their reach is still limited and hard to enforce, and most importantly, you and me? They REALLY don't care. Most likely, you don't even register on their radar. We still have time to reverse the trend of control, and many of us are fighting to do so.

This is also rather optimistic in regards to China. People in power don't tend to give up power.

Quote:

watched a couple Senators last sunday on a program say no jobs have been created by the stimulus money yet, but they think some will come by the beginning of the second quarter next year.... is that good enough ?


It's not a matter of "good enough." It will NEVER be good enough. A job market implies that there must always be unemployment. China's pseudo-communism does in fact have unemployment, manual laborers in the lowest pay grade in the Chinese economy are hired on a day-to-day basis for construction projects or sweatshops or whatever it is they're "applying" for. Not in line early enough? To bad, try to go find somewhere else.

The only way around it is to change the entire system. And the system is unlikely to be changed until it goes it's course and ruins itself. I don't think there's any way to turn it around and preserve what we have, I think always, even when things seem good, I think it's an illusion and we're always on the brink. When we can see through the illusion or it vanishes altogether, maybe we can finally build a system that works.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 6:09 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
And yet, the moment America starts tanking, everyone is already talking about shifting to other currencies, etc.

Most countries have seen for a while America has been going down the tubes, I expect many of them have contingency plans. The ones who have been planning the furthest ahead would become the new global economy foundation.

The countries most effected would be Europe, but America crashing wouldn't be the end of the world. You've been listening to too much of our bullshit propaganda.

What you are proposing, however, is to enslave the American population, under China, to keep business as usual going in other countries around the world. Why? Because you blame America for this? The people you would punish would still have had NO SAY WHATSOEVER in economic or international policy. The people who you'd really want to punish would have jumped ship long before.

The greatest good, sacrificing a few for the many is what you're proposing. Guess what? It's unethical.

The Afghanistan war model was flawed from the beginning, as was the reason to go to war in Afghanistan. You don't declare war on Terrorism, then NOT go after the terrorist cells, which probably isn't a feasible long term goal anyway. Al Qaeda pretty much hated the Taliban, and vice versa. The Taliban weren't sheltering Al Qaeda, they're international. Of course, in Afghanistan, NOW the two are working together because they don't have much choice. But this is off topic.




sure, countrys are trying to firewall themselves, but do you really believe that if the US defaults on its international debt it wouldn't effect China economy that much ? or Europe ?

what about when everyone else defaults Argentina... Philippines... why shouldn't they ?

The IMF collapses, countries no longer being able to get loans at any price...


As for America... you are a democracy aren't you? In theory you have all had your say in both your economic and foreign policy's... are you saying there is no responsibility ?

Your leaders seem to disagree in all cases except where they might be held accountable...

Ultimately, a people is responsible for the actions and conduct of their country, whether they like it or not, whether it is fair or not...
Just the way it is... want examples, I could cite hundreads

I see no reason why the US should be exempt to this... I would even suggest that if you were not so geographically isolated you would have been held to account a long time ago.



Look at how many wars have been fought over this... The Franco-Mexican War being directly on point

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, November 23, 2009 6:35 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

As for America... you are a democracy aren't you? In theory you have all had your say in both your economic and foreign policy's... are you saying there is no responsibility ?


No, we're not a democracy. We're a fascist authoritarian state disguised as a republic.

Take our government and government officials, please. And take our corporate executives, who are pulling their strings.

Quote:

sure, countrys are trying to firewall themselves, but do you really believe that if the US defaults on its international debt it wouldn't effect China economy that much ? or Europe ?


Do you still have farms owned by citizens of your country? Any country that has a product they can still export will survive. I'm not saying you won't go through a depression, but you'll recover, and in the process, you might be able to clear out some of your own government corruption. If you look around, I can guarantee wou'll be able to find some.

If the United States deserves to get it's ass kicked for causing a global depression, then fine, you all have good reason to be angry. But honestly, I'd worry more about your own country and the snakes you have there, because I can guarantee you if you're this worried then your government saw this coming and did nothing so they could loot and pillage your treasury as they desire.

And please don't give us to China. That qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment. Just kick our asses and take your pound of flesh. We'd also appreciate it if you didn't occupy us under the name of "stabilizing us" and installing a puppet government, because, again, I point out how well Iraq and Afghanistan have gone. Save your country years of occupation and pointless casualties, and just leave us to our own mess if it comes to that.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 6:47 PM

CHRISISALL


Joss was right.



The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, November 23, 2009 6:47 PM

CHRISISALL


Joss was right.



The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, November 23, 2009 6:50 PM

DREAMTROVE


The video. It was a good satire of how the US preaches its moral values to the world.

As for the rest of it, you all know how I feel about communism, and I won't debate China, but there's a dangerous line here, like the ones around jews, muslims, mexico, etc.

Just, everyone, be careful, don't confuse the communist regime in Beijing with "the chinese" collectively. Most of them would like to see that regime leveled. They also know that to say so is as much as their life is worth.

Of course who here wouldn't like to see the US govt. leveled. Aside from maybe nik and sig. ;)

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Monday, November 23, 2009 7:17 PM

BYTEMITE


True, true. The chinese citizens have a very unfortunate lot, especially the workers.

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Monday, November 23, 2009 7:29 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Of course who here wouldn't like to see the US govt. leveled. Aside from maybe nik and sig.

I just want it cleaned up. Big-time.


The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 1:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA



My concern in such a situation is mostly for others.
While in fact as prepared for such unlikely or unfortunate eventualities such as is reasonably possible, I worry for those who are not - and unlike more foolish folk, I'd prefer a thousand allies to a thousand bullets.

I'd say such an action had about Zero (pun intended) chance of success if there's other bright folk out there with similar contingency plans.

But first, let's do our best to try and make sure it never comes to that, eh ?

-Frem
http://code-geass.bandai-ent.com/

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

No, we're not a democracy. We're a fascist authoritarian state disguised as a republic.



If this is the case, I don't really see why you're arguing against being "stabilized" by China. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:11 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Of course who here wouldn't like to see the US govt. leveled. Aside from maybe nik and sig.

I just want it cleaned up. Big-time.


The laughing Chrisisall


Don't worry too much Chris as all that you desire will happen soon enough. This Democrat-led Govt. will be thrown out of office next year when they lose both houses of Congress in historic fashion. The only down side for you unfortunately, is that there likely will NOT be room at the table for your Taliban pals. You did say the other day they deserved a seat in the Afghan Govt. didn't you? And who could argue with that bit of wisdom, right Chris? You've missed the beheadings, whippings, rapes, stonings, acid-in-the-face attacks on schoolgirls haven't you? You want to see all that brought back, right Chrisisalltaliban?

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:41 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:

Don't worry too much Chris as all that you desire will happen soon enough. This Democrat-led Govt. will be thrown out of office next year when they lose both houses of Congress in historic fashion. The only down side for you unfortunately, is that there likely will NOT be room at the table for your Taliban pals. You did say the other day they deserved a seat in the Afghan Govt. didn't you? And who could argue with that bit of wisdom, right Chris? You've missed the beheadings, whippings, rapes, stonings, acid-in-the-face attacks on schoolgirls haven't you? You want to see all that brought back, right Chrisisalltaliban?



Hello,

We'd have to invade a lot of countries and take them over to put a stop to that, River. And then we'd have to live in shame over the atrocities our own people would be causing during the occupation.

No, we do not have the resources to change the world. Only ourselves, and hopefully lead by example.

--Anthony


"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:57 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Don't worry too much Chris as all that you desire will happen soon enough. This Democrat-led Govt. will be thrown out of office next year when they lose both houses of Congress in historic fashion. The only down side for you unfortunately, is that there likely will NOT be room at the table for your Taliban pals. You did say the other day they deserved a seat in the Afghan Govt. didn't you? And who could argue with that bit of wisdom, right Chris? You've missed the beheadings, whippings, rapes, stonings, acid-in-the-face attacks on schoolgirls haven't you? You want to see all that brought back, right Chrisisalltaliban?




Refresh my memory - wasn't it Reagan who supported, armed, and trained the people who became the Taliban and Al Qaeda? Seems you Republicans have more of a love affair with them than anyone else does. As for the torture, rapes, whipping, etc., you guys seem to have done an awful lot of it yourselves over the past eight years, so I'm not real sure where you indignation on this score comes from. And why throw acid in a schoolgirl's face, when it's easier and quicker to just launch a Hellfire missile and take out the whole school?

Besides, if we wipe out all the terrorists, what will you guys run on as a campaign platform? I mean, without fear, what do you offer?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:09 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

If this is the case, I don't really see why you're arguing against being "stabilized" by China. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.


Because one of them is dumb enough to try to be covert about it, which can be taken advantage of. For some reason, the American government still appears to care about public opinion enough to manipulate it, instead of just crushing it to do whatever they want.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:37 AM

BYTEMITE


I think the argument for letting the Taliban participate in elections is that 1) it gives some legitimacy to the government, a message that reinforces that we're there to help the people of Afghanistan choose who they want to rule them even if it's people we disagree with, and 2) when the Taliban gets absolutely NO votes, we get to laugh at them because they just hung themselves with the rope we offered them. Mwahaha.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

If this is the case, I don't really see why you're arguing against being "stabilized" by China. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.


Because one of them is dumb enough to try to be covert about it, which can be taken advantage of. For some reason, the American government still appears to care about public opinion enough to manipulate it, instead of just crushing it to do whatever they want.



Good point. At least here, we care enough to set up "free speech zones". Even if they are pens made of chain link and razorwire. ;)

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think the argument for letting the Taliban participate in elections is that 1) it gives some legitimacy to the government, a message that reinforces that we're there to help the people of Afghanistan choose who they want to rule them even if it's people we disagree with, and 2) when the Taliban gets absolutely NO votes, we get to laugh at them because they just hung themselves with the rope we offered them. Mwahaha.



Yuppers. Of course, it will help if they actually DO get no votes, and if it happened in a "clean" election. We apparently don't trust ourselves or our efforts there enough to take that chance. After all, what if the election DIDN'T go our way? (I'm lookin' at YOU, Hamas!)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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