REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Afghans massacre US troops, AK47 whups .22 ass

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:00
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Monday, October 12, 2009 11:39 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:56 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Your weapon was made by the lowest bidder...


Strange that the M249 is a piece of crap compared to the FN Minimi...

I have fired the Minimi under excessively dirty conditions, through several barrels smoking hot ( sometimes turned yellow )and and rarely had a serious jam as long as the gas plug was in the extreme position.

I wonder what the differences between the two are?


Perhaps the problem is with the ammo, I have had several privately owned rifles lock up after sustained fire with eastern block manufactured rounds. Dirty burning powder leaving a residue, less of a problem with AK variants I suspect than the M16 type with its tighter machine tolerances.









Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 1:57 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Your weapon was made by the lowest bidder...



Thing is, if we're getting them from the "lowest bidder", they at least oughta be CHEAPER pieces of crap!

Never been able to figure out why the "cheapest" M16 variants are still twice as expensive as a decent AK47 variant.

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:06 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I wonder if the meticulous care and maintenance of the weapons, as claimed by the soldiers, could be a contributing factor to the failure.

This could be a problem with lubricants or cleaning chemicals used in gun maintenance, they may be breaking down during extreme conditions. They may also be adhering to or otherwise reacting to the prevailing desert dust.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:59 AM

PIRATECAT


AT, I was at the Coca Cola 600 during the begining of summer in Charlotte NC. They had an armed forces display going on. I talked with the Army dudes who were all Green Berets. I was alittle disturbed with their weaponry I thought it was junk. They had 9mms come on man. But they are young and told they got really good stuff. They don't know. No 45 acps. Come On. They said they get money to buy their own weapons and have a gunsmith with the unit. There has always been politics in this stuff. The F-20 smoked the F16 and YF17[F18] but look what we got. I know the airfarce general that approved the F16 was from Texas and got a job in Texas as a VP with General Dynamics so there ya go.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

There's nothing wrong with a 9 millimeter. I prefer a larger bore, but 75% of gunfight mortality is putting the bullet where it will do the most harm.

The 9 millimeter cartridge has a long history of battlefield use dating back to WWI.

I honestly do not think that bore diameter is the tell-all for weapon effectiveness. Now... reliability? That's damned important. I do tend to favor former Soviet weapons for their tendency towards reliability under a myriad of conditions. There is a price to pay for wider tolerances. The Russian weapons are inherently less accurate.

Thing is... I'm not sure the average soldier NEEDS a more accurate weapon. That being the case, a large magazine and a high degree of reliability is probably best for the typical Gomer. In any caliber.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:49 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

There's nothing wrong with a 9 millimeter. I prefer a larger bore, but 75% of gunfight mortality is putting the bullet where it will do the most harm.

The 9 millimeter cartridge has a long history of battlefield use dating back to WWI.

I honestly do not think that bore diameter is the tell-all for weapon effectiveness. Now... reliability? That's damned important. I do tend to favor former Soviet weapons for their tendency towards reliability under a myriad of conditions. There is a price to pay for wider tolerances. The Russian weapons are inherently less accurate.

Thing is... I'm not sure the average soldier NEEDS a more accurate weapon. That being the case, a large magazine and a high degree of reliability is probably best for the typical Gomer. In any caliber.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner




I all depends on the situation,

I started out with the 7.62 FNC1, open sights but still accurate as hell out to 350 yards...

Then Canada switched to the C7 ( M16 variant ) and I found it wasn't nearly as accurate or fun to shoot, but lightweight to carry ( important as hell )

I tend to think of the M16 types as kind of a hybrid between a rifle and a submachinegun

both were good weapons, in the role they were meant to be in, although better do exist




Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists


Lets party like its 1939

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA


(FWHOOP FHWOOP, RANT ALERT, RANT ALERT!)

Well, generally size of the ammo don't matter so much as where you put it, sure.

But the pathetically light .223 reminginton/5.56 nato is pretty sad, loses velocity very fast, even faster out of a short barrel and so ineffective at doing damage it's illegal to hunt deer with.

The reason for the weapon malfunction is very simple - the design of the weapon makes this absolutely INEVITABLE no matter how much you clean or maintain it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_impingement

Basically routing the exhaust from every round right into a chamber which can be jammed by a mere three grains of sand - something about as smart as venting an automobiles exhaust into the passenger compartment, ok ?

Most decent weapons use a piston-rod operation like the AK-47, which is damn near impossible to get dirty ENOUGH to not work - supposedly it's possible, but no one I know has ever seen it happen, and even if it did all you'd have to do is slam the thing into a nearby tree or something to dislodge enough crap so it'd fire again.

The Finns gave my buddy in kosvo a wonderful demonstration of how to unjam a Sako(AK variant) with a frozen bolt in -40F which more or less amounted to smacking it into the ground barrel first and then slamming a boot heel into the bolt lever, then slinging it sideways into a tree to clear the snow from the barrel before firing.

As compared to the M16/M4 which you practically have to bring in a sealed case and treat like fragile glass - I broke the stocks off a couple during rifle bayonet training, and refused to carry one after basic, opting for the almost as crappy M60A1, a roll of duct tape and some bailing wire, and it was STILL more reliable - the problem with that horror wasn't gettin it to fire, it was gettin it to STOP!
http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m6
0/m60-study-guide.shtml


Back in my day (damn that makes me sound old) another problem was the firing pin of the M203 grenade launcher being badly machined and about 1-in-8 times would hang extended, causing a potential detonation of a loaded round before the breech was fully locked - we had a bunch of guys with mangled hand and orange paint all over em, and of course the Army followed its usual practice of blaming the soldiers rather than admitting anything, which they NEVER did, but unit armorers eventually took to quietly solving the problem with judicious application of a file.

The worst of it is that command can NOT be unaware of these problems, not without being so grossly incompetent as to require charging them with negligence, especially as this kind of horror goes all the way back to vietnam and dead american troops with cleaning rods down the barrels of the little black rifle - which the enemy didn't even WANT, considering it a useless piece of shit - what's it say when the enemy strips all their gear and leaves the rifles, eh ?

But closer to now, have a look at the official report of what happened to the 507th maintainence company, mostly lost in the bullshit attempt to make a 'hero' out of Pvt Lynch.
http://www.sftt.org/PDF/article07102003a.pdf
(Requires Adobe Acrobat reader)
Morning News laid it out, too.
http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/opinions/in_the_rear_with_broke
n_gear.php

One trooper who did manage to fight, only did so by loading single rounds into his weapon like it was a damned breachloading musket, something my unit actually practiced cause of the weapons we had at the time.

Remember, the poor bastards of the 507th were second-line reserve quartermasters like me, units where junk equipment gravitates to after being no longer suitable for front line use and just before it's final resting place on the scrapheap, where IMHO much of it belonged to begin with.

The weapons they had were no doubt about equivalent to what we had, and what we had were vietnam relics with worn bolts and shot out bores, which'd MAYBE work for a couple rounds, if you were lucky.
My philosophy on it, being one of the drivers of either a deuce or a 20,000lb MHE - was to hell with trying to fire back, roadkill tells no tales!
Trust me, a deuce will make a hell of a mess of a technical and keep right on goin, you can render a deuce inoperative but not usually right AWAY, mind you.

There's also that the second-line reserve units have no training worth a damn, just quickie basic mostly focused on physical fitness and built around 1st and 2nd gen warfare - hell, we still train, or did while I was in, to dress right after volleys, and no they WEREN'T still using muskets in my day, I ain't THAT bloody old, thanks.

And of course that whole brawn over brains issue comes with it's own problems, as they keep pushin physical fitness, then armor the guys up till they can't but hardly walk with all that shit on, making them dependant on the humvee, which is then vulnerable so they up armor THAT till it's actual advantages of speed and maneuverability are gone without corresponding gain - you know, if you wanted a fucking tank, send a bloody tank - save for the fact that they're all but useless in an urban environment.

And that with the M4 they're trying to make a rifle do a submachineguns job, which has always been a fairly moronic idea, especially when you have your troops all turtled up like that - I don't give a fuck HOW strong they are, that shit has weight, has inertia, and costs a trooper endurance - most of the fights that have gone badly for our guys are the long ones, the other guys wear em out, make em chase, dance rings around em and then cut em to ribbons when they're worn out, fatigued and making critical mistakes because of it.

It's just like back in the crusades for crying out loud, them dancing around us on their speedy little horses, peppering them armored up crusaders and their slow barding covered horses and then running off laughing at their stupidity - shit folks, Saladin did that to us a couple hundred YEARS ago, and we ain't learned a damn thing since, have we ?

Anyhow, the M16/M4 is a piece of shit, always will be, because it's direct impingement design is fundamentally flawed, and everyone on the planet but the assholes who keep selling it to us, and the assholes who keep buying it, knows this.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, October 13, 2009 11:00 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


I messed up and bought a Mini14 instead of Mini30 or AK. Dont plan of turning the barrel redhot -- not enuff $$$ for ammo. But a little kid with a Mini14 proved effective at the Battle of Ruby Ridge.

I'd still like an M14, like I carried at military school in 7th grade ($1500 price tag). Punches a hole in 1/4" steel plate.

Then a Barrett of course. And perhaps something to play with at a machine gun shoot or food riot, if I get rich. I got burnt out on em in USAF, but its still in my blood, literally.

Whatever happened to the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, made out of bulletproof aluminum, owned by the Bushes and Bin Ladens?

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