REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

If you had the choice money or insurance?

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Sunday, September 13, 2009 08:48
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VIEWED: 1804
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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:06 AM

HERO


My employer gives me good benefits. Cost them about $20,000/year.

If they gave me the choice, I'd take the money. Another $20,000 would be of very good use these days.

Anybody else think that way?

If you don't have insurance, would you give up 25% of your earnings to get it (even pre tax)?

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:09 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Lol

People (who work) pay 40% of their paycheck to taxes these days...

How about 50-60%?

Thats at least what they are expecting to extract from us for this health-care plan.

6 dollars out of every 10, so you can pay to care for the worst of us.

Gotta love socialism.

Rebellion, anyone?

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:26 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"... so you can pay to care for the worst of us ..."

Would they happen to be black ? Female ? Polak ? What is your flavor of hatred du jour ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:38 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


'Hero'

Your math skills are lacking.

And you English comprehension and understanding of legal contracts, which in your line of work might be a problem.

'Benefits' are not just medical insurance premiums. They are also paid holidays, paid vacation, paid retirement contributions, paid unemployment insurance, and other minor and significant sundry items as defined by your contract.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 10:41 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Would they happen to be black ? Female ? Polak ? What is your flavor of hatred du jour ?"

It would be you, Rue.

You and your ilk.




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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:13 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


I'm not black.

You must have a whole lot o' hate going on. Though I guessed as much when your hate so exceeded your targets you had to go back into the past to hate hippies, of all people.

***************************************************************

Oh yeah, I'm not a hippie either.

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:15 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Rue,

You might want to choose consent from time to time.


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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:17 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Not for you. You will NEVER be that lucky. Or that smart.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:23 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Lol


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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:35 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Ponder this.

If we could take back this whole damn war in Iraq, we coulda funded this several times over.

Thing is, ain't the money I am payin so much as what we're GETTING for it, which is jack shit, or stuff to spy on us, toys for the jackboots to fuck us up with, more bombs to piss off folk who are gonna return the favor someday...

Shit, if we rolled that money into infrastructure, feeding the poor, healthcare for all - I would be *HAPPY* my cut was goin to good cause and feel all the better about throwin in my share.

Ain't the money, it's what we're buyin with it.
Socialism or not, fuck the insurance companies, nationalisation is still better than another handout to those bloodsuckin vampires.

-F

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 12:49 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Ponder this.

If we could take back this whole damn war in Iraq, we coulda funded this several times over.

Thing is, ain't the money I am payin so much as what we're GETTING for it, which is jack shit, or stuff to spy on us, toys for the jackboots to fuck us up with, more bombs to piss off folk who are gonna return the favor someday...


-F



$681,115,830,380

681 BILLION FedNotes...

Yup , that is a biggish amount squandered , plus nearly 5,000 American dead...

"Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained, that you may take children from their parents and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battles of any war in which the folly and wickedness of the government may engage itself?

"Under what concealment has this power lain hidden, which now for the first time comes forth, with a tremendous and baleful aspect, to trample down and destroy the dearest right of personal liberty? Who will show me any Constitutional injunction which makes it the duty of the American people to surrender everything valuable in life, and even life, itself, whenever the purposes of an ambitious and mischievous government may require it? . .
:Daniel Webster, Speech in the House of Representatives, January 14, 1814

=
The Second Treatise of Civil Government 1690

"That the aggressor, who puts himself into the state of war with another, and unjustly invades another man's right, can, by such an unjust war, never come to have a right over the conquered, will be easily agreed by all men, who will not think that robbers and pirates have a right of empire over whomsoever they have force enough to master, or that men are bound by promises which unlawful force extorts from them "........

"Great robbers punish little ones to keep them in their obedience; but the great ones are rewarded with laurels and triumphs, because they are too big for the weak hands of justice in this world, and have the power in their own possession which should punish offenders." John Locke - 1632-1704 -

http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtreat.htm

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 12:53 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
My employer gives me good benefits. Cost them about $20,000/year.

If they gave me the choice, I'd take the money. Another $20,000 would be of very good use these days.

Anybody else think that way?




Now's a good time to take the 'money'. Buy silver , gold , gold and silver mining stocks , copper-jacketed lead backed by brass and cordite , storable foodstuffs , seeds , and 'trade goods'...

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 1:02 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
My employer gives me good benefits. Cost them about $20,000/year.

If they gave me the choice, I'd take the money. Another $20,000 would be of very good use these days.

Anybody else think that way?

If you don't have insurance, would you give up 25% of your earnings to get it (even pre tax)?




This feels like a trick question, 'cuz at a glance it looks like you are in favor of a gubbmint health care plan.
Low income individuals have been forgoing buying health care in favor of putting the cash in their pockets for years, kind of why we're having these discussions.
Whoops! Is that what it's going to cost us to fund this bill???? Poor dumb poor folk - screwed a-gin!

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com Now available on your iPhone


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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:17 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Lol

People (who work) pay 40% of their paycheck to taxes these days...

How about 50-60%?

Thats at least what they are expecting to extract from us for this health-care plan.

6 dollars out of every 10, so you can pay to care for the worst of us.

Gotta love socialism.

Rebellion, anyone?



And of course, you have cites to back up those numbers, right?

Right?

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


My "insurance" costs me less than 20% of my pre-tax income. And I'd love to have that money - right up until the day I get hit by a truck and need the catastrophic care provisions. Assuming, of course, that they'll live up to their end, which is highly doubtful.

California's launching an investigation because according to the insurance industry's own reporting, the largest insurers in the state are denying ON AVERAGE 22% of claims. One insurer is denying 39% of claims made - and that's by people who HAVE their insurance and PAID their premiums. California Attorney General Jerry Brown (yes, THAT Jerry Brown) is launching an investigation, and may file criminal charges.

So, "Hero" - where do you stand on auto insurance? Compulsory, or voluntary? After all, I don't have any need for it, and there's no "probably cause" to ask me to show that I have it, unless and until I'm in an at-fault accident, right? So can I have my money back for all those years I carried insurance I didn't need and didn't use? 'Cause I sure could use THAT money back, too. And I'm a careful driver, so I shouldn't need insurance, right?

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Wednesday, September 9, 2009 4:29 PM

DREAMTROVE


O2tB

Consider this: There aren't $681 billion in Federal reserve notes in circulation. The US economy is almost entirely fiat ledger balances now.

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:43 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
O2tB

Consider this: There aren't $681 billion in Federal reserve notes in circulation. The US economy is almost entirely fiat ledger balances now.



The figure related to how much has already been thrown down the hole in Iraq...Funds that we're to be paying interest on , in perpetuity , just like the rest of the Gubmint boondoggles...

The Fed Reserve doesn't want the true facts of the 'economy' to become known , that's why they stopped publishing any figures on how many FedNotes are circulating , several years ago...

Seems like good cause to pursue outing the Fed , and forcing an accounting .

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Ron Paul said it best...

END

THE

FED.

(I like caps today for some reason )

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Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hey, Hero...how far would that $20,000 a year go if you got hit with a serious illness (which all of us probably will before we die)? Would it make a DENT in the cost of treatment? Are you telling me you'd put that money away for the day it hits?

How far do you think it would go toward the medications you'll need as you get older, too? If you had to pay full pharm price for them? I'm on five medications daily--two for bipolarity, one for osteo, one for reflux, one for thyroid...$20 apiece, less for a couple. How about those who have truly SERIOUS conditions and have to pay thousands a month just for meds? Yeah, I know, you'll never need meds...just wait a few years.

I'd be willing to pay if it protected me, but I agree:
Quote:

Ain't the money, it's what we're buyin with it.
If my tax money's going to pay for a "war on a whim", GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE for my representatives, etc., then I want something BACK for it.
Quote:

Socialism or not, fuck the insurance companies, nationalisation is still better than another handout to those bloodsuckin vampires.
Hear, hear!

Have you paid any attention to the profits the insurance/pharm companies are making, and how that has increased compared to wages, and what percentage THAT takes out of our pockets?? Whether we have insurance or not, it still takes a chunk to pay for those who don't have it. I wonder how much of that (if you even have insurance) goes to pay for emergency-room visits by the uninsured? I can't remember if you're the one who said their family and friends would take care of them, but hey ho, let's see how much family and friends are willing to pony up, especially those NOT getting the extra $20,000 a year, to help out...

Your quotes, Out, say it all.

Mike, well said:
Quote:

So, "Hero" - where do you stand on auto insurance? Compulsory, or voluntary? After all, I don't have any need for it, and there's no "probably cause" to ask me to show that I have it, unless and until I'm in an at-fault accident [or even a not-at-fault accident, if the other guy doesn't have insurance], right? So can I have my money back for all those years I carried insurance I didn't need and didn't use? 'Cause I sure could use THAT money back, too. And I'm a careful driver, so I shouldn't need insurance, right?
Actually, in California, we DO have compulsory auto insurance...you have to show proof of it if even pulled over for a busted tail light. And what about the "safe drivers" who get blindsided by the "unsafe driver" who doesn't have insurance either?

All insurance is a bet: "We bet you won't have an accident/high medical costs because you won't hit someone or get hit by someone else, or need expensive medical treatment; you pay us because you're betting eventually you WILL deal with one or the other of those". "We also bet that, if either one happens, we can find a way to get out of paying for it and KEEP your money!" Needs fixing. At least our auto insurance is a reasonable value and if we wanted to use it, it comes with all kinds of perks (AAA), and I've used emergency road service a few times. Medical insurance, not even slightly!

Quote:

California's launching an investigation because according to the insurance industry's own reporting, the largest insurers in the state are denying ON AVERAGE 22% of claims. One insurer is denying 39% of claims made - and that's by people who HAVE their insurance and PAID their premiums. California Attorney General Jerry Brown (yes, THAT Jerry Brown) is launching an investigation, and may file criminal charges.
Ahhh, good old Jerry Brown. He never disappears, just gets older! But he also never stops fighting.

If the figures were made known, we not only wouldn't be alone, they'd find it higher in some other state, too. People just don't get it...so many think in terms of "they're taking that out of my paycheck" and "I'd rather have the money", without stopping for a minute to think of where they'd be if they NEEDED all that money when the time came. Short-sighted thinking, the backbone of America.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

I hope nobody minds my using color for my posts...I'm not just enjoying it, I'm finding it very useful in locating where I left off in long posts!

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Friday, September 11, 2009 3:51 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Actually, in California, we DO have compulsory auto insurance...you have to show proof of it if even pulled over for a busted tail light. And what about the "safe drivers" who get blindsided by the "unsafe driver" who doesn't have insurance either?



Oh, I know; we have it here in Texas, too. I have to show my proof of insurance to transfer a car title here - EVEN IF THE CAR IN QUESTION DOESN'T RUN AND CAN'T BE DRIVEN. Yup, I have to insure even "scrap" autos in order to own them free and clear. I play with cars as a hobby, and occasionally I pick up "parts cars" - cars that aren't really restorable, but which still have some good parts I can use or resell - which I then strip out and send the remains to the crusher. As it stands, I have to insure the parts cars before I can crush them. Awesome system.

Quote:


If the figures were made known, we not only wouldn't be alone, they'd find it higher in some other state, too.



No doubt. I used California because Brown's investigation just came up on my radar. For all the crap California's taking for being "broke", they sure as hell aren't the only one. And people like Wulf, who think that states like Cali are the ones draining the system? They should really look into which states take the most in federal money versus what they pay into the federal treasury.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Friday, September 11, 2009 3:58 AM

AG05


Quote:

Oh, I know; we have it here in Texas, too. I have to show my proof of insurance to transfer a car title here - EVEN IF THE CAR IN QUESTION DOESN'T RUN AND CAN'T BE DRIVEN. Yup, I have to insure even "scrap" autos in order to own them free and clear. I play with cars as a hobby, and occasionally I pick up "parts cars" - cars that aren't really restorable, but which still have some good parts I can use or resell - which I then strip out and send the remains to the crusher. As it stands, I have to insure the parts cars before I can crush them. Awesome system.


Did not know that. I assume this also applies to non street legal vehicles like off road 4x4's?


Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

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Friday, September 11, 2009 6:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Oh, I know; we have it here in Texas, too. I have to show my proof of insurance to transfer a car title here - EVEN IF THE CAR IN QUESTION DOESN'T RUN AND CAN'T BE DRIVEN.
! At least it's not THAT bad here; we replaced both our Nighthawks and there they sat, until a couple of guys came along and Jim worked a deal to have them put up the canvas cover over the motorcycle pad so our bikes and bicycles could stay dry, plus $300, for both bikes (neither running).

We'd cancelled the ins. on them long ago, but we can transfer title w/o being insured...I can't imagine paying for insurance for trash vehicles! At least, I HOPE that's so, we've not sold anything in so long, the law may have changed.

So what happens when you guys secede?

Quote:

They should really look into which states take the most in federal money versus what they pay into the federal treasury.
Thankx. Always puts me in mind of Palin and her big mouth and Alaska!

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Friday, September 11, 2009 7:03 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"So what happens when you guys secede?"

Damn good question, one that needs to be fleshed out.

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Friday, September 11, 2009 7:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AG05:
Quote:

Oh, I know; we have it here in Texas, too. I have to show my proof of insurance to transfer a car title here - EVEN IF THE CAR IN QUESTION DOESN'T RUN AND CAN'T BE DRIVEN. Yup, I have to insure even "scrap" autos in order to own them free and clear. I play with cars as a hobby, and occasionally I pick up "parts cars" - cars that aren't really restorable, but which still have some good parts I can use or resell - which I then strip out and send the remains to the crusher. As it stands, I have to insure the parts cars before I can crush them. Awesome system.


Did not know that. I assume this also applies to non street legal vehicles like off road 4x4's?


Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.



Doubtful. I doubt you have to carry insurance to ride a motocross motorcycle on dirt, either. It seems to apply to vehicles which can legally be driven on public roads and require a license to do so.

Where it gets screwy is, the state wants you to have insurance on your vehicle if it's the kind of vehicle that could be driven on a public road - and they're not going to come inspect it to see if it CAN be driven at the moment, and they're not going to take your word for it, because then an awful lot of people would be buying cars that "don't run", right?

Now, the salvage yards are legally required to make sure you have the title of any car you bring in - otherwise you could just be grabbing cars off the street and taking them to the crusher for the cash.

Both of these are laudable goals, in and of themselves. What happens is, you buy a wrecked car or one with a blown engine, and you aren't going to drive it, EVER, but you want parts off it. And you want the carcass of that car gone when you're done stripping what you want off it. Now you have to dispose of it. State wants it insured before they'll give you a title, and the salvage yard won't take it without the title, which you can't get without insurance. So you're stuck.

You know what I did? As wrong as this sounds, I used the system against itself. I put the wrecked carcass in my driveway, and the cops came by and tagged it as a "wrecked/abandoned vehicle" and threatened to tow it away to impound within 48 hours. I called and told them it was indeed wrecked-slash-abandoned, by ME, and that I had no title for the car, but they could feel free to impound it. So they did. Took 'em 8 days to do it, though. And then they impounded it for 90 days and then put it up for auction. I shit you not.

A friend of mine utilized a simpler solution: he used a SawzAll and chopped up the shell of a car he didn't want around anymore, then tossed the pieces in his trash container a little at a time, until it had all been hauled off by the city.

Both of us would rather have just taken the hulks to the crusher, but weren't willing to pay hundreds of dollars to insure them before doing so. Sadly, we weren't given the option, so had to improvise.




Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Friday, September 11, 2009 7:33 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

So what happens when you guys secede?



When Texas secedes from the United States, I secede from Texas. Hey, if they can just walk away from the stuff they don't like, I can do the same. I'll still STAY here, of course; I just won't feel the need to abide by the laws of the state - er, I mean the NATION - of Texas.

Either that, or I move just across the state line into New Mexico and start firing across the border at those secessionist scum.



Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Friday, September 11, 2009 7:36 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Yeah... but the whole secessionist movement is in response to what is going on in government.

Only, this time, without the stigma of slavery coloring everything.

Its simply because of the Un-Constitutional way that the government has been acting.

Do I think anything will come of it? No. But its like screaming in the dark, someone might actually hear you.

ETA: IF Texas did secede, I'd be right there with them. lol

May be the losing side, but Im not convinced its the wrong one.

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Friday, September 11, 2009 8:50 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Wulf --- please PLEASE PLEAAAASE - find all your batshit crazy buddies, fellow haters and racists, pick a city to settle in and secede.

***************************************************************

Hey, don't go away mad.

Just go away.

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Friday, September 11, 2009 8:57 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Rue,

Im sorry Al Bundy made fun of you.

Dont take it out on me....




heheheheheheheheheh

"Unlike your mouth... we occasionally close."

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Friday, September 11, 2009 10:28 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Hey, Hero...how far would that $20,000 a year go if you got hit with a serious illness (which all of us probably will before we die)? Would it make a DENT in the cost of treatment? Are you telling me you'd put that money away for the day it hits?


That is the other side of the argument. Is it worth the risk? Maybe, maybe not. But isn't that risk my responsibility? If I was older and at greater risk, I would take the insurence. If I was younger and in need of capital to put down on a house or pay off student loans...I'd pick the money. Either way its my choice and my risk.

Quote:


So, "Hero" - where do you stand on auto insurance? Compulsory, or voluntary?


Its already voluntary. If you don't drive, you don't need it. Same as a driver's license. Not required unless you choose to operate a motor vehicle.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, September 11, 2009 10:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hero: HALF a good argument. But
Quote:

Is it worth the risk? Maybe, maybe not. But isn't that risk my responsibility?
No, it's not. It's all of our risks. Because if you have no insurance and can't pay the bill for a serious medical situation, guess whose insurance/hospital rates go up to cover it? At least if you buy insurance, you're paying your own costs.

Or, if, gawd forbid, you were to marry, you could leave your wife homeless if you rack up serious medical bills, and I'm sure she'd love that.

As it is now, by the time you need it, you'll have at least one "precondition" that will exclude you. When do you decide you're old enough to need it? Let me give you a hint--you won't; we rarely look ahead at catastrophes, that's why insurance exists.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Friday, September 11, 2009 10:56 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'd take the insurance.

"WHY?" you ask?

Because thanks to an HMO going cheap on labor and delivery, my dd has a pre-existing condition which would disqualify her from even BUYING insurance. I'm not talking about not affording it, I'm talking about not being eligible for it, period.

FUCKING HEALTH INSURANCES.

DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL.

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Friday, September 11, 2009 11:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

but the whole secessionist movement is in response to what is going on in government
No, it's not. It's a response to the fear drummed up by the losers, the permissiveness to protest things that don't even exist, the stupidity of people who let themselves be manipulated into hate, and the governor's eagerness to pander to the nutbags. At its core, it really has nothing to do with this administration, only the picture being painted of them to stir up dissent. Were Texas actually to secede (which they have no intention of doing, it's just rhetoric), they'd be in one helluva pickle. Considering all they get from the government, they'd be screwed:
Quote:

For 60 years it was business as usual, with the federal government providing price supports for many of the nation's largest commodities. Federal farm programs meant big bucks for Texas. In 1994, federal support to Texas farmers who produced cotton, wool, mohair, wheat, rice, sorghum, corn, barley or oats totaled about $857 million. The prior year, price supports on these commodities reached $1.4 billion.
http://www.window.state.tx.us/comptrol/fnotes/fn9606.html
Quote:

Texas today won the biggest chunk of the $60 million in federal grants awarded to border states to bolster the ability of federal, state and local law enforcement agencies to work together to secure the nation's borders.
Texas was awarded $16.7 million of the so-called Operation Stonegarden funds that went to 13 border states and Puerto Rico.

http://blogs.chron.com/txpotomac/2009/06/post_107.html U.S. Department of Transportation is loaning $66 million to the Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority to help launch the 183A Turnpike project near Austin.

The turnpike will be an 11.6-mile, four-lane toll road roughly parallel to U.S. 183. The toll road will take some of the pressure off that highway, which now carries about 44,000 vehicles per day – a figure expected to increase to 58,500 vehicles per day in 15 years.

http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=46515
Quote:

Between skyrocketing taxes, loss of military protection, sports teams crumbling, massive debt burdens, and the coming political crisis in 2020 (when the projected population of Texas will be 45 percent Hispanic and 38 percent Anglo, and the Hispanics win a ballot initiative to have the new republic join Mexico), the picture doesn't look good.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/15/countdowns-wtf-moment-tex_n_2
04199.html
Quote:

The report shows that of the 32 states (and the District of Columbia) that are "winners" -- receiving more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 76% are Red States that voted for George Bush in 2000. Indeed, 17 of the 20 (85%) states receiving the most federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Red States.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html
And yes, Texas was one of them.

That's just a few samples, took no time at all to find them. I theorize that, without the federal money Texas gets, they'd be pretty screwed pretty soon. So let'em go, if they want to so bad (just kidding).

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Friday, September 11, 2009 11:17 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Just a thought,

Texas is 2x the size of most European countries....

Lol I'd place my bet on a Texan any day. After all, I married one.

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Friday, September 11, 2009 2:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ah... Texas.

Miles of nothing 'cept hot air....

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Friday, September 11, 2009 6:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

You know what I did? As wrong as this sounds, I used the system against itself. I put the wrecked carcass in my driveway, and the cops came by and tagged it as a "wrecked/abandoned vehicle" and threatened to tow it away to impound within 48 hours. I called and told them it was indeed wrecked-slash-abandoned, by ME, and that I had no title for the car, but they could feel free to impound it. So they did. Took 'em 8 days to do it, though. And then they impounded it for 90 days and then put it up for auction. I shit you not.

Heh heh heh, that's righteous, and I say that "in character" as Dynamo.

Re: Texas secession ?

I give it no more credence than Utah, if they wanted to, more power to em, but I hold a dim view of Texas and Utah's kinda landlocked - either one of which would have to almost completely rebuild a secondary infrastructure in order to be viable and do it right quickly - and with what ?

At least Michigan has friendly neighbors and enough remaining industrial capacity to pull it off, and New Hampshire, Vermont, have already built or are in the process of building secondary infrastructure, not only for that reason, but so that a single catastrophe or natural disaster cannot cripple them in that fashion.

-F

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Friday, September 11, 2009 6:15 PM

SERGEANTX


If I had my druthers we'd impose a moratorium on insurance. At least take a breather for a few years so we can get things back to sanity.

Compulsory insurance is among the worst of modern government abuses. We've been sold a bill of goods by con men from the insurance industry who've convinced a majority of Americans that the "responsible" thing to do is to lay your bets with them. Responsibility is something altogether different. It's sure as hell not punishing someone for something they might do because they might not be able to pay for the damages they might cause. Guilty until proven innocent doesn't fly with me, whether its for auto insurance or health insurance or bullshit homeland insecurity laws.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Friday, September 11, 2009 7:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:



Quote:


So, "Hero" - where do you stand on auto insurance? Compulsory, or voluntary?



Its already voluntary. If you don't drive, you don't need it. Same as a driver's license. Not required unless you choose to operate a motor vehicle.



Awwww... that's so cute. I guess I can make the same claim about mandatory health insurance too, right? I mean, you CAN volunteer to leave the country, yes? Or you COULD volunteer to no longer be alive, right? Oooh - maybe those death panels would be handy after all!

So, back to my question... As you say, you're not "required" to have auto insurance unless you choose to operate a motor vehicle - at which point IT'S REQUIRED, even though you've not been shown to have any specific NEED of it at that time, as you haven't had a wreck. You only NEED insurance when you need it. As such, requiring it is tantamount to a presumption of guilt, and a requirement to, in essence, "prove your innocence."

So, instead of making me carry auto insurance, why not just let me have the money? I *promise* I'll bank it in case I ever have a wreck. Really.



Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Saturday, September 12, 2009 1:40 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So, instead of making me carry auto insurance, why not just let me have the money? I *promise* I'll bank it in case I ever have a wreck. Really.



Are you perhaps missing the point of the OP? Or am I?

It seems to me that the point is that receiving the "benefit" in cash lets each of us decide how best to apply it. That might be for a catastrophic policy/HSA combo. It might be for a traditional insurance policy. We might spend it on something no one's thought of yet that makes our lives safer and or healthier. We might even choose to accept the risks involved in not having any insurance in preference for the higher quality of life that 20k might buy us.

Government policies that encourage these kinds of benefits push us all into one solution. Which is, of course, their goal. But I think it's a goal worth questioning.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Sarge, I don't think I'm missing the point; I think I'm trying to look at it from other angles.

The question seems to revolve around the idea that we should have a "choice" between taking responsibility for ourselves, and not. That you can "choose" to have insurance, or you can "choose" not to. Thing is, that choice really isn't only going to impact YOU.

Case in point: If I have no health insurance, and I'm hit by a car (and let's assume it's my fault, so the driver's insurance won't cover me), an ambulance is called, I'm taken to the hospital, and they do everything they can. And lo and behold, they save my life - but at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Oh, did I mention that in this instance, I happen to be homeless and jobless, and a drug addict? Good luck collecting that money! But hey, it was my "choice", right?

So as it stands, YOUR choices (an by this I mean EVERYBODY'S choices, not only yours personally) are impacting MY wallet. Somebody has to pay the hospital for jumping in and helping without knowing if the person involved is going to reimburse them. That "somebody" is society; the city, town, state, or nation comes in and pays. They probably pay less than retail, but they pay the hospital.

It's getting to be time that we actually make a REAL choice in health care: Either you have coverage of some sort, or the ambulance doesn't come in the first place. All you people who abhor "socialism" need to wrap your heads around the idea that REAL personal responsibility comes with some hard choices. If you choose to take your money, and like all too many Americans you spend it rather than invest it or buy coverage, then if the worst happens, you're left on your own. Broke a leg? Hope you have a stick and some twine, 'cause you're going to need to put a splint on that.

You can outlaw driving without insurance, but as anyone can tell you, that doesn't stop it from happening. Hell, it doesn't even slow it down. It just makes it more likely that the very worst of drivers are the ones least likely to have coverage when they crash into your house at three in the morning. You can outlaw not having health insurance, but it won't stop people from going without it, and it sure as fuck won't stop them from getting sick.

Your government is already covering the uninsured, and they're doing it at your expense, on top of what YOU already pay for your own coverage. You're already "paying for somebody else's health care", so that argument goes nowhere. The only way you can stop doing that is if we all sign on to simply STOP doing that. In other words, eugenics. Don't have coverage? Die. You get zero help from us. Sorry, too bad, it's cold world, walk it off, get over it.

That's the choice you're talking about; I seem to be the only one admitting that that's the choice.

Guys like Wulf say they won't play along; if insurance is mandated, they won't get coverage, they'll go all "outlaw". Great. Let 'em. They can die when they get sick, then - or they can be a drain on the system, sucking up the tax dollars they're so loathe to contribute into the system they're now sucking off.

We're already paying. All I'm asking is that we actually get something for what we're paying for. In reality, I don't think you and I are that far apart. You detest paying taxes at all, and I don't mind paying them if we get something in return. I despise shopping for insurance, I hate going through all the contracts, and I'd really rather just not have to worry about it and know that I'm covered. I actually DO have to worry every time I see a new mole or feel a new pain, because I don't know whether I'm going to be covered or not under my current insurance - is this something that's somehow related to an illness I had 7 years ago? If so, it might not be covered. Did I remember to list that high fever I had with pneumonia when I was 20? If I didn't, they can dump me if I get sick. Dealing with this shit, thinking about it day in and day out, is stressful. I could have a heart attack worrying whether I'd be covered if I had a heart attack!

So, seriously, if your point is that you'd rather have the money and make your own choices, I get that. Hey, so would I, in a vast number of things. Can I provide for my own defense this year? I've already got it covered, and I definitely have not been invaded yet. Can I have that part of my tax money back?

Also, if ANY of you out there who are bitching have children that you send (or sent) to public schools, I have a question: Can I have my money back? I don't think it's fair that you should expect ME to pay for public schools when I don't have any kids and never will. So I'm just going to go ahead and leave that part out of my taxes from now on. Deal? Oh, and I didn't have a fire at my house this year. Rebate! And I didn't call the cops. Score! And I haven't called an ambulance. Cha-CHING! Oh, and that new stretch of interstate outside Dallas? Fuck 'em - I don't go there that often, so I ain't paying.

Was THAT your point?

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:04 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The question seems to revolve around the idea that we should have a "choice" between taking responsibility for ourselves, and not. That you can "choose" to have insurance, or you can "choose" not to. Thing is, that choice really isn't only going to impact YOU.



We disagree more fundamentally than you realize. The version of "responsibility" you're peddling here is straight off the insurance company brochures, and like any sales pitch, is all about making black look white. Responsibility on the road is making sure you're driving safely and doing everything you can to avoid dangerous situations. What you're recommending is paying for the privilege of being irresponsible.

I ran up against the illogic of mandated insurance at nineteen years old, and in the twenty-five years since, I've not heard or read one compelling argument for the status quo. In fact, as I've seen the basic concept expanding into other areas - like it is now with health care - I've become even more convinced of its insidious nature. At the core of it is an embracing of the idea that a person is guilty by default, that a statistical risk that you might harm someone else is enough to convict you. That's a really bad precedent.

I was in the subway a while back. I was struck by the way the trains come whizzing by with crowds of people milling about only a couple of feet away. I asked my friend if people ever fell onto the tracks and he chuckled sardonically and said, yeah, it happens a fair amount. So, if you're a regular subway rider, and you lose your balance and accidentally push someone onto the tracks, will you be able to pay all their medical bills (if they survive)? Shouldn't you be force to have insurance coverage protecting others from your potential misstep?

The thing is, the uninsured motorist was as solved problem before the insurance companies started pitching mandatory insurance. It was a simple extension you could take out on your policy if you were worried about that sort of. But it was relatively difficult to manage and required that actuaries actually did their jobs. Eventually, the insurance companies figured they could have a lot more consistent income if they could just force everyone to buy their product.

Quote:

So as it stands, YOUR choices (an by this I mean EVERYBODY'S choices, not only yours personally) are impacting MY wallet. Somebody has to pay the hospital for jumping in and helping without knowing if the person involved is going to reimburse them. That "somebody" is society; the city, town, state, or nation comes in and pays. They probably pay less than retail, but they pay the hospital.


That's a problem that's easy to solve without selling us in chains to the insurance companies. I agree that you shouldn't have to pay the medical bills for people who can't afford them. You can if you want to, but you shouldn't be forced to. So don't. That's all that needs to happen.




SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I would LOVE you see you hoist on your own petard, Sarge. The sheer malicious glee that I would get from watching you or your family get sick, injured, or old, and then and die or become permanently crippled- would be a source of enjoyment for years. I would enjoy it BEST to see that happen to your loved one, and watch you tear yourself up over it.

But that's never gonna happen. Someone comes in a sweeps up the mess. Tant pis.

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Saturday, September 12, 2009 5:01 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I would LOVE you see you hoist on your own petard, Sarge. The sheer malicious glee that I would get from watching you or your family get sick, injured, or old, and then and die or become permanently crippled- would be a source of enjoyment for years. I would enjoy it BEST to see that happen to your loved one, and watch you tear yourself up over it.



That's a really sick thing to say. You may be as much of a mean spirited bitch as some have accused you of. That's too bad.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'M a mean-spirited bitch? I'm not the one proposing "every man for himself". YOU'RE the one proposing a system, Sarge. And my response? It's just a teeny tiny, virtual taste. I'm merely hoping that you run into the consequences of your own proposal. Full force, and without pity. And welcome to my world.

So deal with it. "Take responsibility". For your statements. For your health. For the health of your family. For everything you hold dear. But stop being such a gorram windbag.

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Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The question seems to revolve around the idea that we should have a "choice" between taking responsibility for ourselves, and not. That you can "choose" to have insurance, or you can "choose" not to. Thing is, that choice really isn't only going to impact YOU.



We disagree more fundamentally than you realize. The version of "responsibility" you're peddling here is straight off the insurance company brochures, and like any sales pitch, is all about making black look white. Responsibility on the road is making sure you're driving safely and doing everything you can to avoid dangerous situations. What you're recommending is paying for the privilege of being irresponsible.



Apparently we DO disagree, if you think I'm selling insurance. Where did you see me recommending that we pay for the privilege of being irresponsible? Are you saying that insured motorists are less responsible, because they pay for the right to drive like utter fucking morons? Or maybe you're saying that people who have healthcare coverage are more irresponsible, since they're paying for that privilege. You're right - we DON'T agree on that.

Quote:


I ran up against the illogic of mandated insurance at nineteen years old, and in the twenty-five years since, I've not heard or read one compelling argument for the status quo. In fact, as I've seen the basic concept expanding into other areas - like it is now with health care - I've become even more convinced of its insidious nature. At the core of it is an embracing of the idea that a person is guilty by default, that a statistical risk that you might harm someone else is enough to convict you. That's a really bad precedent.



You're contradicting yourself, Sarge. You say you've not heard one good argument for the status quo (which would mean a for-profit, private-run system dominated by lobbyists, HMOs, insurance companies, and pharmaceutical conglomerates), and then you argue against trying to CHANGE the status quo.

As far as a person being "guilty by default", that's kind of a statistical no-brainer. You ARE going to die. Period. You really are. So is everyone you've ever known. And the vast majority of them are going to be sick before they die. And that's going to cost a lot of money, unless you're okay with hauling Granny out and tossing her onto the dead-cart when the guy rolls around.

Quote:


I was in the subway a while back. I was struck by the way the trains come whizzing by...



Probably a good thing that's ALL you were struck by. Otherwise, I'm not sure we could afford to have you around.

Quote:

...with crowds of people milling about only a couple of feet away. I asked my friend if people ever fell onto the tracks and he chuckled sardonically and said, yeah, it happens a fair amount. So, if you're a regular subway rider, and you lose your balance and accidentally push someone onto the tracks, will you be able to pay all their medical bills (if they survive)? Shouldn't you be force to have insurance coverage protecting others from your potential misstep?


Might be a valid question in there. Are you saying you SHOULDN'T be responsible? Or are you saying they should sue you into oblivion?

Quote:


The thing is, the uninsured motorist was as solved problem before the insurance companies started pitching mandatory insurance.



The thing is, it wasn't. It still isn't. There are still uninsured motorists. My insurance premiums go to paying for some of the damage they do - only they don't pay ME when I'm the one damaged by that uninsured motorist. Trust me, I've been through this one first-hand. Had a truck hit by a drunk driver. No license, no insurance, no address, no ID, no way to track him down. I carry liability only, because it's the least amount required by law. So my premiums go up because my truck got hit WHILE PARKED AT MY HOUSE, and I get nothing for my troubles but a totaled truck. So no, the uninsured motorist thing never was "solved". Or were you suggesting we should all have to carry it?

Quote:

It was a simple extension you could take out on your policy if you were worried about that sort of. But it was relatively difficult to manage and required that actuaries actually did their jobs. Eventually, the insurance companies figured they could have a lot more consistent income if they could just force everyone to buy their product.


Well, you're not right, but you're persistent. Uninsured motorist protection is still a very real thing, and it's a money-maker for the insurance companies, same as it ever was. Sure, by law you have to have insurance, but there are still an awful lot of people who don't. Kinda funny how that works, huh? You outlaw something, and the only ones who don't care and don't follow the rules are the people who never do anyway, the outlaws. You don't stop the behavior, you just criminalize a few more people with the stroke of a pen.

Quote:


Quote:

So as it stands, YOUR choices (and by this I mean EVERYBODY'S choices, not only yours personally) are impacting MY wallet. Somebody has to pay the hospital for jumping in and helping without knowing if the person involved is going to reimburse them. That "somebody" is society; the city, town, state, or nation comes in and pays. They probably pay less than retail, but they pay the hospital.


That's a problem that's easy to solve without selling us in chains to the insurance companies. I agree that you shouldn't have to pay the medical bills for people who can't afford them. You can if you want to, but you shouldn't be forced to. So don't. That's all that needs to happen.



I'd say it's not all that easy to solve. What you're proposing, whether you know it or not, is something that basically goes something like this:

You have an accident. Let's say you get hit by a car. You are a "responsible" person, but you don't have insurance because you believe that you're responsible for yourself. The driver of the car, who believes the same way you do, is likewise uninsured. Now, while he's usually a very responsible person, he's also a really shitty driver, and tends to talk on the phone, eat, drink, or do office work while he drives (none of which are illegal in this scenario). So, he hasn't really done anything WRONG, legally, but still, you're badly busted up and in deep need of some medical attention.

Here's the good news: The ambulance has been called. Here's the bad news: The hospital ran a credit check on you, and you don't have any means of paying for the services they anticipate you'll need. So they're not coming. They figure it would be a waste of their time and resources, and they're not in business to be a charity. You understand, of course. They're for profit, and ONLY for profit. Doctors aren't required to do pro-bono work.

So you're left there on the street. Oh, someone will probably do the nice thing and at least drag you over to the gutter, so you won't be blocking commerce and traffic. Hey, if you're really that up on believing in people, you should be able to heal yourself in no time, right? Uh-oh... Looks like you're slipping into a coma. No worries - I'll call your next of kin to come out here and scrape your body of the pavement. If they're not here in the next 24 hours, the city will do it, but your corpse will be going in the road-kill truck, and they'll get the bill for it. Your family shouldn't mind, though, because at least society didn't need to shell out any money for you, and the system just keeps chugging along and grinding 'em under.

Like it or not, THAT is the system you're advocating. It's been done before, in lots of places. It's being done now in places like Somalia. It's why we don't do that. We like to kid ourselves that we're not really a third-world, backwards nation. You seem intent on proving to the world that we ARE.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:27 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I would LOVE you see you hoist on your own petard, Sarge. The sheer malicious glee that I would get from watching you or your family get sick, injured, or old, and then and die or become permanently crippled- would be a source of enjoyment for years. I would enjoy it BEST to see that happen to your loved one, and watch you tear yourself up over it.



That's a really sick thing to say. You may be as much of a mean spirited bitch as some have accused you of. That's too bad.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"



If it SEEMS like a sick and mean thing to say, it's because it is. But that's no different than what you're saying. Maybe you wouldn't WISH it on someone, but regardless, it IS going to happen to someone. And your response, basically, is to say "Tough shit, cold world, things happen, too bad, so sad, walk away and fuck right off; not my problem."

To a person, the ones I've seen advocating "tough love" on healthcare ("Quit whining, you worthless cripple! Whattaya mean, it hurts? You fell on your damn LEGS, you puke! You can't FEEL your legs, right!?") are the people who've never faced something like leukemia in their child or their spouse. If you can honestly look these people in the eye and tell them, "Hey, too bad we opted for that flat-screen TV instead of the health coverage, huh? Oh well, see you in the next life, and try not to keep us up with all your wheezing and moaning, all right, honey? 'Nighty-night," then you're a much colder and sicker person than you accuse Signy of being.

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:39 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
I'M a mean-spirited bitch? I'm not the one proposing "every man for himself". YOU'RE the one proposing a system, Sarge.

So deal with it. "Take responsibility". For your statements. For your health. For the health of your family. For everything you hold dear. But stop being such a gorram windbag.



I'm proposing nothing of the kind. I'm merely arguing against mandating insurance. You respond with vicious attacks wishing agony on my family. I'm pretty tolerant, especially in the throes of a passionate argument, but that crosses a line and makes it difficult to see you as anything more than a sniveling, hateful cunt. It certainly doesn't "make your case".

Fuck off and die. I won't, however, wish such a fate on your family members. They're likely decent people who've suffered far too much already in dealing with you.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:52 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
If it SEEMS like a sick and mean thing to say, it's because it is. But that's no different than what you're saying. Maybe you wouldn't WISH it on someone, but regardless, it IS going to happen to someone. And your response, basically, is to say "Tough shit, cold world, things happen, too bad, so sad, walk away and fuck right off; not my problem."



No, that's not my response. At all. You're not listening. You're too busy working on your pre-conceived notions to listen to what I'm saying.

For example:
Quote:

To a person, the ones I've seen advocating "tough love" on healthcare ("Quit whining, you worthless cripple! Whattaya mean, it hurts? You fell on your damn LEGS, you puke! You can't FEEL your legs, right!?") are the people who've never faced something like leukemia in their child or their spouse. If you can honestly look these people in the eye and tell them, "Hey, too bad we opted for that flat-screen TV instead of the health coverage, huh? Oh well, see you in the next life, and try not to keep us up with all your wheezing and moaning, all right, honey? 'Nighty-night," then you're a much colder and sicker person than you accuse Signy of being.


Yeah... well it seems like that's where the politics are going these days. Anyone who disagrees with your plan is painted as a cruel monster.

I guess it's easier than thinking and listening.



SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Yeah... well it seems like that's where the politics are going these days. Anyone who disagrees with your plan is painted as a cruel monster.



And you're acting differently, how, exactly? Anyone who disagrees with your "plan" - or complete lack thereof - is painted as either a "socialist" or an apologist shill in the pay of the insurance industry - both of which are types of people you consider "monsters".

I still can't figure out what your position IS. Are you for leaving things as they are? Are you for nationalizing health care, bringing in single-payer, bringing in a public option, doing away with ALL forms of insurance (good luck on THAT mission), offering health care for none, offering health care for all, or what?

What *I* am saying - like Frem - is that I'm paying for health care AND I'm paying for it again in my taxes. My bet is that if we roll it all up into a national plan or a single-payer plan, I'll be ahead money, as will most Americans. Yes, your "taxes" will likely go up - but your health insurance costs go away. For me personally, that means there's an extra $6000 that I *wouldn't* have to spend on my health insurance this year (and it goes up at a rate of 17-21% per year, every year, regardless of my health; I've had zero claims, haven't even tried to use that coverage, and have both lost weight AND quit smoking, yet still my costs keep going up. What gives?). So right there, I'm getting a "rebate" of $6000. I have a feeling that my taxes aren't going to increase by that amount.

And can you imagine the outcry if your taxes went up 17 to 21 percent per year? How long would THAT shit be put up with? Yet people are so gung-ho to keep having that money shoveled into the gaping maw of the insurance industry.

So, Sarge, what is your plan?

Mike

"It was already blue when we got here!"

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Sarge, you are so friggin in love with your ideology you can't see THIS is where it winds up >>> A big to everyone unhealthy or unlucky. Suck it up and die quietly, willya??? So right back atcha. A big effu to you and yours. And yanno what?

You can't even take it in virtual mode! You're already sniveling and whining That's not fair! That's not nice!! That's beyond the pale! WHAAAAAHHHH!!!!!!!

You want the milk of human kindness ALREADY????

WTF would you do in REAL life??? WTF would you do if your loved one got a serious chronic illness which bled you dry and you had to watch her/him in constant agony, with the last bottle of morphine in your hand wondering what to do????

So. Can't look in a mirror????

TOO FUCKING BAD. Either stop humping your precious brand of elitist capito-Libertarianism online or take frigging RESPONSIBILITY for it. OWN it. DEFEND it. But WAKE THE HELL UP to what you're REALLY saying, and its effect on REAL people. And STOP, fer chrissake, sniveling when it bounces right back at you. Because I really, REALLY, can't stand hypocrisy no matter what direction it comes from, but especially yours. YOUR brand of hypocrisy is the hypocrisy of the COMFORTABLE. And I hope that someday, you and yours will become truly uncomfortable. Maybe THAT will teach you a little humanity. Maybe THAT will remove that capito-Libertarian parasite from your brain.

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Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Sarge, I'm STILL waiting to hear your "plan" for health insurance. I'm calling you out, man.

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