REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Return of the Republicans

POSTED BY: KIRKULES
UPDATED: Friday, May 1, 2009 04:08
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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:25 PM

KIRKULES


"For just the second time in more than five years of daily or weekly tracking, Republicans now lead Democrats in the latest edition of the Generic Congressional Ballot. " http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_americ
a/congressional_ballot/generic_congressional_ballot


Seems speculation about the demise of the Republican Party is premature. This bodes well for the Republicans regaining seats in the House in 2010.


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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:34 PM

WHOZIT


I'm trying to keep my hopes up, but I'm not going to count my chickens before they're hatched.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


As I posted on the "Downfall of the Right" thread...

Quote:


Republicans AS THEY EXIST TODAY might be done at the national level, but they'll adapt and evolve. The Republican party that elected Reagan is long gone, and the one that backed Bush just ran out of D.C. with its tail between its legs. But don't for a minute think that any of that cedes all power to the Democrats. Don't think it, and don't hope for it.

The Democratic "machine" does indeed have an off switch. It's called time and events. Time and events - some of his own making, some beyond his control - caught up to Bush and the NeoCons and cost them the seemingly insurmountable level of control they had back in 2002-2004. The same will happen to the Democrats in power today. That's a GOOD THING - you don't EVER want anything approachinig a "permanent majority"; it just leads nowhere good.

People wanted something different than what Bush and the Republicans were offering last year. In three years, or seven, they'll likely want something different again. Who knows? Maybe they'll look back with nostalgia on the good old days of Bush, the way so many seem to do with Reagan today.

The Republican party will likely change everything but their name - or, if they're fully convinced that their party is dead and gone, they'll change NOTHING about their party BUT the name, and they'll come back as The Patriot Party, or some other "all-American" kind of name. The one thing you can count on, though, is that people will want change - even from "Change". :)



Hell, *I* know they're not done and gone, and I'm one of the ones who should be happiest if they WERE.

They'll be back. It's one of the few things that will help keep the other side in check.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Dump the chumps.

Come back when you've cleaned house of all the paranoid neocons and fascists. Then MAYBE you'll be a better party than the Dems.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:40 PM

RIPWASH


And you guys could dump all the looney moonbats.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:51 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The Republican party will likely change everything but their name - or, if they're fully convinced that their party is dead and gone, they'll change NOTHING about their party BUT the name, and they'll come back as The Patriot Party, or some other "all-American" kind of name. The one thing you can count on, though, is that people will want change - even from "Change". :)



Really, given that the Democrats and Republicans have all but written themselves into the constitution as permanent "branches", the only way real change can happen is by changing one or the other of the existing parties. This is what Ron Paul realized after his Libertarian run in '88. The cards were heavily stacked against third party candidates then, and it's only become worse since.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:04 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The Republican party will likely change everything but their name - or, if they're fully convinced that their party is dead and gone, they'll change NOTHING about their party BUT the name, and they'll come back as The Patriot Party, or some other "all-American" kind of name. The one thing you can count on, though, is that people will want change - even from "Change". :)



Really, given that the Democrats and Republicans have all but written themselves into the constitution as permanent "branches", the only way real change can happen is by changing one or the other of the existing parties. This is what Ron Paul realized after his Libertarian run in '88. The cards were heavily stacked against third party candidates then, and it's only become worse since.

SergeantX



And that, my dear Sarge, is why the time is ripe for pouncing NOW. The Republican party is in disarray, and it's being re-imagined and re-imaged as we speak. The libertarians actually have a (small) chance to take over the party and remake it in its former CONSERVATIVE image.

You have factions trying to yank the party HARD RIGHT, and you have factions trying to yank it even harder to evangelism, while a few moderates try to steer the party back toward the center. All are in a weakened state, and many of their followers wonder why they're even bothering, since the party seems all but dead and gone to so many of them.

But a few enterprising souls could rebrand some libertarian ideals, call themselves Republicans, and overthrow the old guard from within.

Just a few things to ponder.

Oh, and in case anyone was wondering (Rip, I'm lookin' at you!), I fully advocate this same approach to remaking the Democratic party as well, once they're sufficiently beaten down and out of favor with the hoi-polloi.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:
And you guys could dump all the looney moonbats.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas



Abso-freakin'-lutely. You both have very valid points, Rip, you and Signy.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 12:40 AM

RIPWASH


I personally think that in order for this government to work in this day and age, there will be a need for a Left party, a Right Party and Center Party. Not that this will ever happen, but honestly I think it's the moderates who have to "chose sides" that are inadvertently causing a ruckus. Take Specter, for example. He can choose to be a Republican, but I guessing his views are more on the liberal side, so at this point it IS best for him to switch parties. He may not have always been that way, he may have been a moderate guy who leaned right at one point. So he decides to switch, but that has the potential now to really botch things up in Congress by giving ONE side the ability to have complete rule the Hill with an iron fist (so to speak). Not good, I hope many of us can agree. But that is essentially why Republicans are upset with him right now. He's about to give the other side practical absolute control. And I think he said only a few weeks ago that Republicans should stay faithful to their party to avoid such a thing from happening (in fact I think he said it on Hannity's show).

I dunno for sure. Are Libertarians considered more center? Are they really a viable third party?

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 1:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RIPWash:

So he decides to switch, but that has the potential now to really botch things up in Congress by giving ONE side the ability to have complete rule the Hill with an iron fist (so to speak). Not good, I hope many of us can agree. But that is essentially why Republicans are upset with him right now. He's about to give the other side practical absolute control.



Seems maybe his former party should have listened to him a bit more, maybe tried to work with him a bit. Instead, his last election run, he had to face heat from hard-right "conservative" special interest groups who tried to trash him. Could be he's still bitter about that, and about being labeled a "RINO". Maybe he decided that if his party didn't want him, he didn't really need them either.

Quote:

I dunno for sure. Are Libertarians considered more center? Are they really a viable third party?


Libertarians certainly seem to be closer to the center than the most recent leaders of the Republican party. Are they a viable third party? I don't know. At this point, you have to ask yourself if they're a viable SECOND party - and if the Republican party is a viable third party!




Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:05 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Specter simply decided to give up his last few molecules of pretense as a statesman, and join the slobbering flock of the Feeders of Vaal. Whoooops, is that the dinner bell sounding? Run Arlen, run.


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Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


RIP, Kwicko- there are worse things than being moonbats... like being fascists. You get the religious zealots, fascists, neocons, and faux populists out of your party and we'll get the corporatists, Zionists and pseudo-socialists out of ours. All of those ideas watered by big money???? They have to go!


----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:24 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But a few enterprising souls could rebrand some libertarian ideals, call themselves Republicans, and overthrow the old guard from within.

Quite funny you would write that Kwicko, it's what I and others around me are doing right now in Indiana.

In 2010 I'm running for local office as a "republician" but I'm hardly an R in philosophy. Maybe about 55% at best. I get in hot debates all the time with R's who think I'm crazy to be so pro-market and pro-military like them and yet be pro-environment, pro-science, and pro-choice.

I like to rather think that I'm actually pro-logic. And most everyone else marches in step with the music their different media outlets play.

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:31 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Libertarians certainly seem to be closer to the center than the most recent leaders of the Republican party.

We like to think of ourselves as not being "Left" or "Right" on a singular line axis. We're more like being "Up" in a cartesian plane. Draw a line in your mind. Lable the right side the "Right" and the left side the "Left". Now draw a second line perpendicular and bisecting the 1st. Label the top "Libertarian" and the bottom "Statest".

We often feel as though we're outside events, or rather "up" looking "down" on the left/right struggles.

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Thursday, April 30, 2009 7:30 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
We often feel as though we're outside events, or rather "up" looking "down" on the left/right struggles.



That's kind of unfortunate too. As much as I agree that the left/right thing is a pretty limited way to view things, I think that libertarianism borrows the best principles from each side of the left/right axis. If that looks like the "middle" to people committed to the current two dimensional axis, I see no reason to resist it.

But it is odd that while some see us as in the middle, others would call us the hardest of the right. Still others the looniest of the left. Take your pick.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, May 1, 2009 2:21 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And that, my dear Sarge, is why the time is ripe for pouncing NOW. The Republican party is in disarray, and it's being re-imagined and re-imaged as we speak.


Its never as bad as it seems. After 2000 the Democratic Party was done. They had lost Congress, the Presidency, and after 9/11, much of their credibility.

What did they do? The swerved sharply to the left...so much so that they abandoned the man who was their VP candidate in 2000, a man who stood strong for mainstream Democratic principals throughout his career. They became more and more radical and more and more ugly in their anti-Bush hate speech. But they were two candidates away from retaking everything. Two...yes, Barrack Obama and George Bush.

Barrack Obama promised a lot of centrist things, but had no record, now in office he's so far left that he's wondering why Carter was so conservative.

This allows the Republicans to regain their moral and philosophical roots, to choose new voices and new candidates to revive the 'young conservative' spirit that carried the 1994 Republicans to victory. We are also two candidates away from retaking the White House. We have Barrack Obama...now we just need the anti-Barrack. Some names are out there...I think we haven't heard the right one yet. Palin, Romney, some of the Governors...and we have some extremely good folks in the House (I never liked Senate candidates)...and just last week I heard a friend whisper..."JEB".

You see, in nearly every national election since 1964 the conservative ideas are the ones the people want. You can put up better candidates or take advantage of wars, watergates, a drooling media, and banking disasters...but all things being equal...most folks vote Republican, they vote Conservative.

Unless we're better off in four years then we are now...expect a Republican to be in office.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Friday, May 1, 2009 4:08 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
But a few enterprising souls could rebrand some libertarian ideals, call themselves Republicans, and overthrow the old guard from within.

Quite funny you would write that Kwicko, it's what I and others around me are doing right now in Indiana.

In 2010 I'm running for local office as a "republician" but I'm hardly an R in philosophy. Maybe about 55% at best. I get in hot debates all the time with R's who think I'm crazy to be so pro-market and pro-military like them and yet be pro-environment, pro-science, and pro-choice.

I like to rather think that I'm actually pro-logic. And most everyone else marches in step with the music their different media outlets play.



That's good news to hear! Good luck with the campaign, and do your damnedest to hold their feet to the fire.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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