REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Someone's gonna pay, and it ain't gonna be me.

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Friday, May 15, 2009 11:40
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Monday, March 30, 2009 5:59 AM

FREMDFIRMA



These moral majority prohibition via taxation types have just crossed the final line with me, and I am doubly irate at having to pull time better spent helping folk and spend it instead on retaliation, which is gonna make it all the harsher when I do it.

As of Apr 1st, the price for a bag of bulk tobacco, as in roll-yer-own, jumps from $15.99 to $39.67.

Thanks to a tax bump of over $23 a pound, which amounts to well over 100% tax on the product itself, in a boldly admitted attempt at prohibition via taxation and deliberate exploitation which so deeply offends me that imma go no-holds-barred on this.

And if that means encouraging the moral majority neo temperance goons to screw YOU, that's what it means, folks - cause encouraging them to create their own self destruction in the public ire is the most efficient way to wreck em, so get ready to pay through the nose for anything not minimally required to sustain your existence so you can keep enriching the powers that be.

Hope you don't have any bad habits, folks.
Cause if you do, I'll do all in my power to make sure you feel their bite too, until they either roll that back, or roll me into the grave.

Period.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, March 30, 2009 6:13 AM

BYTEMITE


What are the taxes on heroin and crack?

People should be free to make their own choice in regards to health decisions.

The problem with cigarette smoking is the second hand smoke, and so legislators are trying to ban it everywhere... Which means smokers are going to smoke at home. Around their kids. Yep, that's a good solution, there.

When I went to Amsterdam, some of the drug use culture was a little seedy, but you had to go out of your way to encounter it. I think that could be a viable alternative to the way things are right now. We already have bars for our alcohol, why not smoker's bars, or maybe even legal bars for other drugs, like marijuana?

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Monday, March 30, 2009 6:34 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I have a 'bad habit', and prohibitionists have frequently threatened to tax it out of viability.

Dude, if you want lung cancer, as far as I'm concerned, that is entirely your business.

I drink enough Coke to give me diabetes.

I eat enough Cholesterol to give me heart disease.

I recognize the desirability of improving on these choices, but I don't want the government to make me, eh?

Most particularly I don't want to find ammunition priced out of reach. Shooting is the 'bad habit' I am unrepentant for.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, March 30, 2009 6:36 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

As an aside, this made me wonder.

If we get Universal Health Care, then will the government feel perfectly justified in telling me how to live my life? You know, since how I live my life will impact the 'public good'?

I think they might.

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, March 30, 2009 6:57 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

As an aside, this made me wonder.

If we get Universal Health Care, then will the government feel perfectly justified in telling me how to live my life? You know, since how I live my life will impact the 'public good'?

I think they might.

--Anthony



"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner



Perfectly true argument. With Canada's healthcare system everyone winds up paying when someone has health problem... so the question becomes what if the heath problems were the result of an avoidable personal choice.

I have heard it argued that either taxation on tobacco products with the proceeds going directly to the healthcare system is the answer... while this is probably the easiest way to do it, I have also heard the arguement that people who choose to smoke should pay an addition fee for healthcare. But one could imagine the administration problems.

Mind you, how does this make it fair in the case of other activity's which result in greater risk of injury or sickness ?

Should part of your insurance for driving a sports car go to heathcare, etc


I am not against the idea of taxation on tobacco, as long as the proceeds go to heathcare, cancer and lung disease research, etc. But if the money goes elsewhere, I would have a problem with it.

So where is the money going ?



" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:00 AM

BYTEMITE


Anthony: They don't already tell you? Lucky!

Nah, sorry, I was just being frivolous.

Universal Health Care... Well, the scare is either that the government will use it to exert too much control over our lives and health, or that the whole thing will end up a bureaucratic nightmare, public hospitals will become a mess, and no one will ever really get any decent treatment unless they're rich and go to private hospitals. Like I hear health care in England is like.

On the other hand, I also have heard good things about the health care in England and Canada. And as for Universal Health Care, all I've ever heard suggested is obtaining health insurance for every American, which in general I don't disagree with. The health of a person really shouldn't have price tags and net worth attached to it.

And I really wish someone would take down those damn HMOs and pharmaceutical companies. Profiting off sick people seems so unethical. Wish Universal Health Care could do that, but I doubt it.

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:07 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Can we grow our own? Tobacco I mean?

Just like the libbys, ban/tax into the stratosphere "evil" smoking, (drinking and ammo too)...but legalize weed.

Only fags try and ban fags.

lol


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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:13 AM

BYTEMITE


Gino: That would help fund Universal Health Care, I admit. And it's very hard to say no to the prospect of funding important research.

But when you tax things, there's always going to be some element of people who will try to get around the extra cost illegally. That generally comes with an associated increase in violent measures, a decrease in the quality and safety of the product, and funding some unpleasant international organizations.

Before we even can work of Universal Health Care, we need to figure out a way to make medicare sustainable long term. Once we can do that, THEN maybe we have a basis for a working health care system long term. Until then, much as I'd like to see universal health care, I don't think we have the foresight to implement it. Nor do we have counter-measures against government and corporate privacy invasions.

I would hope that lung cancer and other complications related to smoking would continue to be researched anyway.

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

public hospitals will become a mess, and no one will ever really get any decent treatment unless they're rich and go to private hospitals.


Perhaps you could point out the parts of this statement that don't already apply to health care in the U.S.?

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:30 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Can we grow our own? Tobacco I mean?

Just like the libbys, ban/tax into the stratosphere "evil" smoking, (drinking and ammo too)...but legalize weed.

Only fags try and ban fags.

lol




Since when has weed been legalized?

Or, put another way, what the hell are YOU smoking?

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:34 AM

SERGEANTX


Frem,

I see this issue as part of a broader problem we have in the US right now. The issue is unscrupulous use of government to achieve ends that can't be achieved through legitimate means. "Means justifies the ends" is the status quo. So we see those who want to end tobacco smoking, using the funding mechanisms of government to impose their will on others. They can't justify an outright nationwide ban on it - or at least aren't willing to propose such legislation - so they slide it in through the tax code.


SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Should part of your insurance for driving a sports car go to heathcare, etc



The trick with that is trying to actually DEFINE "sports car".

I'm a Car Guy™, and I've never been able to come up with an ironclad definition. Many would argue that a Mazda Miata is a true sports car, but others would say that its meager power makes it more of a commuter car with some sporty pretensions. (That latter group have never raced against Miatas on a road course, by the way)

Define "sports car". Two doors? Does a Lincoln Continental Mark VIII count, then? Light weight? Like a Smart ForTwo? Roadster? So a Miata would be a sports car, but a Miata Coupe wouldn't (and yes, they actually made a Miata Coupe and sold them in Japan - about 160 of them!)

That's where it gets tough - when you start getting into the details of ANY grouping.

\m/

I'm something of a ne'er-do-well
even though that's something I could never do well...




The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:39 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)



I'm going to start pushing to get things like large SUVs and pickups taxed at a much higher rate, too. After all, their tailpipe emissions are higher, which means they're contributing more to air pollution, which is endangering MY health, so they should be taxed into oblivion.

McDonald's, too. I don't eat there, so fuck 'em, and fuck you if you do. You should have made better health choices in the food you eat. A Big Mac will now be $25.00, because my tax money is going to go to treating your overweight ass.

Let's just tax the living shit out of every single thing that some of us don't like. Sound fair?

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:43 AM

BYTEMITE


As I understand it, the main difference is that any sort of division in quality of health care based on money spent we observe in America is exaggerated in England, to the point where the public hospitals are rather careless and ineffective and proper treatment almost requires private hospitals and wealth.

Of course, this is only something I've heard from someone who purportedly lives in England. If they do live there, it could also be their perspective on the health care system is different from the majority. Maybe Citizen could comment further on how accurate my statements are.

But you make a very good point, Kwicko. :)

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:54 AM

BYTEMITE


Can you IMAGINE the outcry if a McDonald's burger were suddenly $25? I don't like Micky D's much myself, but a good number of the blue collar and white collar workers rely on fast food chains like it because of the time and money they can afford.

In regards to air pollution, there is only one type of car that truly produces a significantly greater quantity of emissions than any other. The so-called "smoking car." You've seen these guys, they produce a white cloud around them when they're idling, and if you drive behind them, you get dizzy. These guys actually produce about 30,000 times the emissions of any other vehicle out on the road. LA has done a lot to get smoking cars reported, tested, fixed, and off the road, and I think that program has really done a lot of good for their air quality.

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Monday, March 30, 2009 7:57 AM

SERGEANTX


We should just give up on regular laws altogether. Just use the tax code to punish everything we don't like. That way we don't have to worry about all those pesky constitutional issues associated with real laws.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Monday, March 30, 2009 10:09 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


that was a extreme example, but it was meant to be

how about speeding or dangerous driving tickets...

maybe the cash for that should be split between safety enforcement ( lol ) and providing for ambulance services.

Cops wouldn't like to lose that cash ( here in goes into their budget ) but it would make a bit of sense.



" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson


Lets party like its 1939

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Monday, March 30, 2009 12:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
We should just give up on regular laws altogether. Just use the tax code to punish everything we don't like. That way we don't have to worry about all those pesky constitutional issues associated with real laws.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock



Exactly my point. Everybody always defends this stuff by saying, "Well, I don't do it, and I'm against it, so hell yeah, tax the shit out of it!" I'm saying that EVERYONE has something they do that's bad for them - eating carbs, eating red meat, eating fish (mercury), etc. Let's just start attacking EVERYTHING as a sin. Want to upsize your combo at Mickey D's? That's gluttony. And it's a $10 tax. Want porn? That's lust. And it's not illegal, but it won't be cheap!

The list goes on...

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Monday, March 30, 2009 2:48 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Supposedly the money goes to SCHIP - but thing is, the past FOUR times, it's always been "For the children" and four fer four, been rolled into the general slush, whereupon they whine for ANOTHER increase.

How would you like it if I stuck a gun in your face and robbed you "for the children" and then spent the money on guns and ammo to invade and rob your neighbors house ?
(yes, that's an iraq allegory)

Me, now... I cannot say I am proud of it, but I plan to make sure they not only find no benefit from this attempt to rob me, but that it actively costs them something, and as of today (I went up to Lansing and started yanking chains, calling in favors and making political threats) have cost the SCHIP budget $3244.60 USD in funding.

And yet it enrages and upsets me to do something like this, cause I got no issue with funding SCHIP in the first place, certainly not as opposed to funding corporate welfare - but when you single ME out, rob ME specifically and foist an unfair share of the burden on my shoulders for moral or religious causes, I am obligated by my own morality to penalise that bitterly.

And I will.
Every single chance I get.
Not only will they never see a dime of benefit from me for this stunt, it's gonna cost them something, like I said - it's already cost them 135 months aka 11 YEARS worth of any benefit they might have gotten from robbing me personally, and that in a single day.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:06 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:


As I understand it, the main difference is that any sort of division in quality of health care based on money spent we observe in America is exaggerated in England, to the point where the public hospitals are rather careless and ineffective and proper treatment almost requires private hospitals and wealth.

Of course, this is only something I've heard from someone who purportedly lives in England. If they do live there, it could also be their perspective on the health care system is different from the majority. Maybe Citizen could comment further on how accurate my statements are.


Private hospitals have nice carpet, pretty flowers and at best two junior or even student doctors on late night call to keep costs down. NHS hospitals have several doctors and at least one consultant. Private hospitals send emergencies to NHS hospitals. Making exaggerated claims of the state of NHS hospitals sells extra copies of the daily mail. Anyone who thinks NHS hospitals only offer ineffective and careless treatment has either never been to one, been one of those that have received bad care (for which there are examples in any healthcare system), or are flat out lying.

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:21 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Everybody always defends this stuff by saying, "Well, I don't do it, and I'm against it, so hell yeah, tax the shit out of it!"



Yeah... that attitude really gets me. It seems some people have a really shallow sense of "justice".

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:54 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, that sounds like other accounts I've heard, like that Michael Moore movie. I guess I shouldn't comment on what I haven't experienced myself. Thanks for your perspective. :)

How is England keeping their health care system under control, financially? Over here in America, the monetary costs for even just medicare for our elderly will exceed our GDP in 2020.

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:35 AM

CITIZEN


We spend about 6% GDP total on Healthcare. France, which was ranked 1st in the WHO rankings is 7% I think. I dunno, the USA seems to spend a hell of a lot more on healthcare for little benefit (being 14% of GDP last I checked). I assume medicare is just medical needs, doesn't include any sort of state pension? According to projections below the total NHS budget is set to rise to 11% GDP by 2054.

http://www.ippr.org.uk/uploadedFiles/research/events/Education/Hawkswo
rth%20-%20Long%20term%20spending%20-%20mar06.ppt


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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:00 AM

BYTEMITE


Medicare is basically just a health insurance program the government offers for people over 65. It's got hospital stay and drug coverage to an extent, but there's still out of pocket costs, and even limitations on when medicare can be used to cover costs that's based on a fee schedule.

It's not a pension, the money being put into the program now by employees is being used by elderly patients now. The money isn't the employee's to be used later, it's a tax the government takes off their paycheck. Or at least that's how I understand it.

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Having experienced what can only be described as a living nightmare at the hands of the US Medical Care System, I fail to see how things could possibly be worse - but I'm sure that they could be.

I don't mind payin for healthcare, mind you - but I damn sure mind payin for someone else's as a result of their moral and religious bias being given governmental force.

Cost to date to SCHIP of trying to rob me $3359.60

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:10 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Yes, Bytemite, and there's also disability, in case you suffer a crippling injury, like I did.

In which case, if they think they can pull it off, or if you are obviously-terminal, they will pull out the red tape blockade and stall you for YEARS with denials such as "not medically disabled" despite being four days post-op from an amputation of the right lower leg and the fact that my JOB required me to walk eight security rounds per night and be in 'good physical condition'.

Me, I survived, barely, with a damned lot of replacement parts and permanently shattered health.

A lot of the terminal patients they were denying, they didn't - and that pissed me off supremely.

When you enter that agreement (although can you really call it that when you have no option to refuse other than facing violence and incarceration ?) there's a certain foolish expectation that the Gov will keep that promise if it comes to cases, and folks, that ain't true.

They only do that when you MAKE them, and fighting a court battle from a soon to be deathbed while dying of medical neglect is not an experience I'd wish on anyone - which is one reason I happen to be so all-fired hostile when it comes to this issue.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:01 AM

BYTEMITE


With all the denials, where does the money go?

I mean, with insurance companies it's obvious, the money all goes to give huge bonuses to the people on top. But medicare and medicaid? That's the government. Where does the money go?

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Poured down the toxic rathole of adventurous imperialism which gains us nothing, and costs us things even money can't buy back.

-F

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Tuesday, March 31, 2009 12:29 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh the irony!

Warning sought for burger the size of your head
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=333&sid=6020108

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (AP) - The staff dietitian at a doctors group is asking the West Michigan Whitecaps to put a warning label on the enormous new hamburger that it's selling this season. Susan Levin of the Washington-based Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine sent a letter to the Grand Rapids minor-league team on Tuesday. She's asking that the 4,800-calorie burger be labeled a "dietary disaster" that increases the risk of cancer and heart disease.

The 4-pound, $20 burger features five beef patties, five slices of cheese, nearly a cup of chili and liberal doses of salsa and corn chips _ all on an 8-inch bun.

Whitecaps spokesman Mickey Graham said the team hasn't considered labeling the burger, which he says is a gimmick being promoted as a very unhealthy menu item.

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Tuesday, April 7, 2009 11:57 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Take THAT, Ya healthy bastards.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090407/ap_on_go_ot/fact_check_fda_tobacco

Maybe we should tax your good health, since it's economically more costly than my smoking.

Cost to date to SCHIP of trying to rob me $4881.91

-F

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Thursday, May 14, 2009 9:27 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Get ready for six dollar colas, folks.

The tyranny of taxing 'sin'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090514/cm_csm/yfleenorweb;_ylt=AuxHJLskP
ipsb3687m5H52ms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlcjA2NWlqBHBvcwMyMDcEc2VjA2FjY29yZGlvbl9vcGluaW9uBHNsawN0aGV0eXJhbm55b2Y
-

Washington – Sin is big, at least in the minds of federal and state lawmakers. The US Senate is currently considering a soda tax to help pay for healthcare reform. In New York, Gov. David Paterson (D) wants a sin tax on non-diet sodas, and West Virginia Delegate Margaret Staggers (D) supports "a heckuva junk food tax."

And you better believe, imma get behind this ball and push it, push it REAL HARD - I can hold a grudge for decades, but mostly I wanna encourage these dimwits to stick their necks so far out that the public can't resist picking up the axe!

But till that point, lemme be honest about personal failings here, yes, I damn well AM going to smirk in grim satisfaction at the outraged howling of the folks who didn't stand up when they should have in spite of it being pointed out to them time and time again that this is where it would go...

I am going to do my damned level best to MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

The "public" violated the non-aggression principle against me by busting my chops with a punitive tax because they didn't care for my bad habits, well fine, dandy - that gives me every right and reason to retaliate in kind.

And when that results in burned fingers for overreaching politicians, so much the better, but until "the public" decides that ALL these 'sin' taxes are bad, rather than the ones that JUST affect them - I'll support every goddamn one of em, to the very maximum extreme, in every way possible.

Let's see how they like the bitter taste of what they're so fucking eager to dish out then, shall we ?

-Frem

PS. SCHIP's lost over 20k in potential funding over this, which I *also* intend to roadblock at every opportunity, any way I can.

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Friday, May 15, 2009 12:39 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

As of Apr 1st, the price for a bag of bulk tobacco, as in roll-yer-own, jumps from $15.99 to $39.67.

Thanks to a tax bump of over $23 a pound, which amounts to well over 100% tax on the product itself, in a boldly admitted attempt at prohibition via taxation and deliberate exploitation which so deeply offends me that imma go no-holds-barred on this.



Time to grow yer own, sans 4,000 deadly chemicals and urine freebase. Less addictive that way.
www.organicaseedco.com/tobaccoseeds.html

They sell St Johns Wort seeds, which is the cure for tobacco addiction, equivalent to Zyban/Welbutrin.

SJW seeds are infinitely cheaper than the typical $200,000 lifetime tobacco cost.

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Friday, May 15, 2009 12:41 AM

CITIZEN



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Friday, May 15, 2009 3:23 AM

BADKARMA00


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Get ready for six dollar colas, folks.

The tyranny of taxing 'sin'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090514/cm_csm/yfleenorweb;_ylt=AuxHJLskP
ipsb3687m5H52ms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlcjA2NWlqBHBvcwMyMDcEc2VjA2FjY29yZGlvbl9vcGluaW9uBHNsawN0aGV0eXJhbm55b2Y
-

Washington – Sin is big, at least in the minds of federal and state lawmakers. The US Senate is currently considering a soda tax to help pay for healthcare reform. In New York, Gov. David Paterson (D) wants a sin tax on non-diet sodas, and West Virginia Delegate Margaret Staggers (D) supports "a heckuva junk food tax."

And you better believe, imma get behind this ball and push it, push it REAL HARD - I can hold a grudge for decades, but mostly I wanna encourage these dimwits to stick their necks so far out that the public can't resist picking up the axe!

But till that point, lemme be honest about personal failings here, yes, I damn well AM going to smirk in grim satisfaction at the outraged howling of the folks who didn't stand up when they should have in spite of it being pointed out to them time and time again that this is where it would go...

I am going to do my damned level best to MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

The "public" violated the non-aggression principle against me by busting my chops with a punitive tax because they didn't care for my bad habits, well fine, dandy - that gives me every right and reason to retaliate in kind.

And when that results in burned fingers for overreaching politicians, so much the better, but until "the public" decides that ALL these 'sin' taxes are bad, rather than the ones that JUST affect them - I'll support every goddamn one of em, to the very maximum extreme, in every way possible.

Let's see how they like the bitter taste of what they're so fucking eager to dish out then, shall we ?

-Frem

PS. SCHIP's lost over 20k in potential funding over this, which I *also* intend to roadblock at every opportunity, any way I can.



---------------------

First, I'm on your side, I just want to ask a couple questions. Was this a state level tax on tobacco?
And what is SCHIP?

I agree that it's time to tell these people to go staight to hell. It seems its okay to give meth addicts and other drug users tax payer funded treatment, but people who actually pay taxes and obey the law are punished for anything that those in power see as 'harmful'.

I remember you talking about that 'fourth box' a good while back, and it seems to me that we're getting closer to it all the time, lol.

As always, though, that's just me.

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Friday, May 15, 2009 3:25 AM

BADKARMA00


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Get ready for six dollar colas, folks.

The tyranny of taxing 'sin'
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090514/cm_csm/yfleenorweb;_ylt=AuxHJLskP
ipsb3687m5H52ms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlcjA2NWlqBHBvcwMyMDcEc2VjA2FjY29yZGlvbl9vcGluaW9uBHNsawN0aGV0eXJhbm55b2Y
-

Washington – Sin is big, at least in the minds of federal and state lawmakers. The US Senate is currently considering a soda tax to help pay for healthcare reform. In New York, Gov. David Paterson (D) wants a sin tax on non-diet sodas, and West Virginia Delegate Margaret Staggers (D) supports "a heckuva junk food tax."

And you better believe, imma get behind this ball and push it, push it REAL HARD - I can hold a grudge for decades, but mostly I wanna encourage these dimwits to stick their necks so far out that the public can't resist picking up the axe!

But till that point, lemme be honest about personal failings here, yes, I damn well AM going to smirk in grim satisfaction at the outraged howling of the folks who didn't stand up when they should have in spite of it being pointed out to them time and time again that this is where it would go...

I am going to do my damned level best to MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

The "public" violated the non-aggression principle against me by busting my chops with a punitive tax because they didn't care for my bad habits, well fine, dandy - that gives me every right and reason to retaliate in kind.

And when that results in burned fingers for overreaching politicians, so much the better, but until "the public" decides that ALL these 'sin' taxes are bad, rather than the ones that JUST affect them - I'll support every goddamn one of em, to the very maximum extreme, in every way possible.

Let's see how they like the bitter taste of what they're so fucking eager to dish out then, shall we ?

-Frem

PS. SCHIP's lost over 20k in potential funding over this, which I *also* intend to roadblock at every opportunity, any way I can.



------------------

BTW, Frem, I'm with you on the 'holding the grudge' thing. I still don't buy Exxon products, even though it's been like, two decades I guess, since the Valdez spill, lol.

Bad_karma
Great and Exalted Grand Pooba, International Brotherhood of Moonshiners, Rednecks, and Good Old Boys.

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Friday, May 15, 2009 4:57 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Was this a state level tax on tobacco?

Nope, Federal, and across the board, but of course the States saw an excuse to up their bite as well.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/24208.html
Quote:

what is SCHIP?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Children%27s_Health_Insurance_Progr
am


A cigarette tax increase of 62 cents—bringing the total tax on a pack of cigarettes to $1.01—an increase of tax on loose tobacco from $1.10/lb. to $24.78/lb.—an increase of tax on chewing tobacco from $0.195/lb. to $0.50/lb.—as well as tax increases on other tobacco products will fund the program's expansion.

See, that's what set me off since I roll my own, from $1.10 tax on a bag, which I felt snarky about but considered a reasonable compromise, to $25.00 in tax alone on a PRODUCT that itself costs only $13.99 !

Can you IMAGINE being hit with a tax increase of that size, on something you use every day ?

And sure, they'll play that "for the children" card again - but do tell, where did all those tobacco lawsuit settlements and previous taxes supposed to fund this stuff go, ehe ?

Same place they always do, rolled into the general slush and then robbed for pork and pet projects, which will without a doubt happen to this as well and then they'll just howl for more, figuring they've demonized folk who smoke well enough (with ad campaigns paid for by robbing them on excise taxes in the first place, naturally!) that they can keep going back to that well in perpetuity.

I don't have a problem with funding SCHIP, honestly, my issue is with how and why they went about it in the fashion they did, and my response to strong-arm, gunpoint robbery in that fashion is to make sure they not only do not benefit, but that it actually costs them in the end - this discourages recidivism.
Quote:

I agree that it's time to tell these people to go staight to hell.

More than past it - it wasn't that long ago that they chose to make the previous tax increase, which as usual never filtered down to the programs it was supposed to fund which were used as excuses, and during a time of phony shortage and INSANE gas prices which were killing independant truckers - which indirectly lead to the IU530 branch of the IWW.
http://www.iww.org/en/unions/dept500/iu530

But ponder this, ludicrous taxes on tobacco in some states, more reasonable taxes in others, and a whole lot of truckers starving and unable to make a living shipping common freight while paying six bucks a gallon for diesel - and the republicans digging in their heels and using their majority to prevent a temporary reduction in motor fuel taxes to abate this.

I don't have to draw you a picture there, do I now ?

As of late, our friends up north in Canada have been more than helpful in this matter, as have various native american tribes, most of whom also hold grudges, and tend not to have much respect for the federal government or it's promises either.

Ryan from STR doesn't care for this bullshit much either, and he lays down a pretty damn good salvo of counterbattery fire.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/91/underwood/underwood1.html

Oh, and one last thing -
Quote:

It seems its okay to give meth addicts and other drug users tax payer funded treatment, but people who actually pay taxes and obey the law are punished for anything that those in power see as 'harmful'.

While I do acknowledge your point, one thing that would offset the damage of many of our current drug war insanities is treating addiction like a purely medical issue instead of a criminal matter - sure, treatin em ain't cheap, but it's cheaper than locking them up, especially when you include not just the financial costs of law enforcement, court time and prison, but also the social impact of allowing those who serve the latter to become some sort of de-facto protected nobility who don't seem to have to abide by the same rules we do.

This war on (some) drugs shit has caused more problems than it will ever solve - yanno, it wasn't THAT long ago that you could buy opiates right over the counter as a goddamn toothache remedy, and despite that there wasn't the widespread abuse and addiction problem we have now.

The way to break that is to simply refuse to comply, en-masse, like we did with prohibition - and here's an interesting counterpoint, too.
http://www.doublex.com/section/health-science/why-i-give-my-9-year-old
-pot

Having seen the fallout and destruction caused by Risperdal, Thorazine and Concerta - I can certainly see the ladies point.

Besides which, I think a plate of hash brownies would do many of our uptight, straitlaced, pole up the ass lawmakers some GOOD, and am all in favor giving Pelosi some fucking quaaludes!

Sure did Spock some good! -


You gotta watch this, it laid me on the floor in howling fits, especially since the episode they robbed it from was a really over the top fit of Roddenberry hippie-bashing.
(Way to Eden, I think, so painfully anvilicious it's actually quite funny)

Man, I haven't laughed that hard in a long damn time.

-Frem

PS. This gives me a seriously warped idea for a new thread...

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Friday, May 15, 2009 11:22 AM

KIRKULES


You reap what you sow. Your chickens have come home to roost.

You did'nt really believe Obama as going to take from the rich and give to you did you. It's going to be amusing to watch the Obama supporters whine when the shoe is on the other foot, and they are the victims of wealth redistribution. This is just the beginning, his 4 trillion dollar deficit is going to mean broad base tax increases effecting everyone.

My cigar prices were also effected by SCHIP. I have cut my consumption in half in order to deny the Feds additional taxes, and will be looking for a black market source.

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Friday, May 15, 2009 11:40 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Get ready for more, Frem.

Quote:

Crusading NY health chief picked to head CDC
May 15, 2009 - 5:08pm

NEW YORK (AP) - For seven years, Dr. Thomas Frieden has been the nagging conscience of the nation's biggest city, the man who made sure New Yorkers couldn't smoke in bars or eat french fries cooked in artery-clogging trans fats.

Now, the city's health commissioner will be taking his crusade against unhealthy living national as the head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.



http://wtop.com/?nid=104&sid=1676394

Best stock up on lard and pork chops now. You can probably also expect another push to classify firearms as a public health problem.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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