HAS BUSH SABOTAGED OBAMA'S ECONOMY??? by participant

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HAS BUSH SABOTAGED OBAMA'S ECONOMY???

POSTED BY: PARTICIPANT
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:15
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Friday, January 9, 2009 3:09 AM

Obama inherits $1.2 trillion in the red, a 1.2 trillion deficit – but this is even before new stimulus (estimated Obama stimulus is aprox 1000 billion)

1.2 tril + 1.0 tril = 2.2 Trillion

Bush is handing Obama an economy that's about to implode

For fiscal year 2009, which began this past Oct. the fed government will run $1.2 trillion in the red, said the Congressional Budget Office (CBO)
The Fed Bank is going crazy(not American bank but a private bank bought up by European royals and foreign Jews and foreign Saudis and foreign Germans)
The Federal Reserve is stealing US taxpayer money and printing US Dollars like crazy to bailout WallSt crooks and give GM unions their own private golf courses

Year 2009 has already run $1.2 trillion into the shit!
That’s without counting any Obama stimulus spending, since such a package has yet to be formally proposed, much less passed.

This year alone Haliburton-esque corporations took 400 million to pay off Shiite militias and build the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad which is larger than Vatican City!
Europe and Asia is also in disaster with the economic disasters spreading across the world. The Bank of England have now cut their interest rates to the lowest level in its 315-year history, the UK faces demographic nightmares as London will now build the largest Mosque on the planet for their Londonstan citizens.

Thousands of Americans are losing their jobs or even worse losing the roof over their head.
Pelosi now supports a class war as she now urges Obama to raise taxes on wealthier Americans.
In a way the Republicans are lucky McCain didn't win because as the economy now enters a depression
they can blame it all on the black guy and get the rightwing white neocon masons back into power within 4 years. Even Kerry (skull and bones) must be laughing at this cunning sabotage plan from camp Bush

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Friday, January 9, 2009 3:10 AM

PARTICIPANT

FUCK THE BAILOUT

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Friday, January 9, 2009 11:02 AM

WHOZIT

Barry wants to do what Bush is doing, spend our way out of it. The hard truth is we should let unhealthy buisness's fail! Do'nt blame Bush (I'm not a fan of his anymore) because Barry wanted to be Prez at the wrong time.

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Friday, January 9, 2009 11:07 AM

RIVERLOVE

Bush only submitted budgets, Congress approved them....6 years under Republicans & 2 years under Democrats. So blame Republicans for 75% of the mess and Dems for 25%. I think the election loss for Republicans reflected how the country blamed Republicans.

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Friday, January 9, 2009 6:02 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Economic Depression by 2010?

Bloody Hell – U.S. Governors Want $1 Trillion Bailout for States
http://www.411mania.com/politics/columns/93725/Bloody-Hell-%E2%80%93-U
.S.-Governors-Want-$1-Trillion-Bailout-for-States.htm

After bailing out Wall Street and the U.S. auto industry amid warnings of a deep recession, Uncle Sam now is being asked to chip in $1 trillion over two years for states facing severe budget shortfalls
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/01/02/democratic-govern
ors-asking-government-t-bailout-package/

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Friday, January 9, 2009 7:34 PM

MALBADINLATIN

Bush is nowhere near smart enough organize the throwing of shoes into the factory machinery.

He wasn't a bad leader because he made bad decisions. He was a bad leader because he made no decisions after 2003 when the Presidency became more difficult than running the Texas Rangers.

They couldn't hang it all on Nero either. It is systemic. It is previously exported and globalized free enterprise coming back to bite us in our right rear pockets, or purses.

Oh...you get it.....

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Monday, January 12, 2009 9:22 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Skeptical of Obama's stimulus plan

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/la-oe-goldberg13-2009jan13,
1,7760944.column

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:11 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

21.01.2009 - "CNNMoney"

Bond prices fall as Obama takes over

Treasury prices decline, especially longer-term maturities, as the nation watches the next president take office and the market readies for new issues.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Government debt prices fell Tuesday as Barack Obama was sworn in as the nation's 44th president, with the struggling economy - and government efforts to revive it - serving as a backdrop.

President Obama has pledged to rescue the U.S. economy, which has been mired in recession since December 2007. So far, his plans have included a lot of spending, which the government will finance by selling Treasurys.

With the government deficit already exceeding $1 trillion, the rescue plan that Obama has been touting means that the government will be auctioning off a tremendous volume of debt. The onslaught of debt headed to market puts a damper on government bond prices.

"Even though there is still tremendous risk aversion in the market, supply concerns are starting to outweigh" the desire to keep assets in the safe haven of government bonds, said Kim Rupert, fixed-income analyst at Action Economics.

Sinking bond prices are "a reflection of the massive stimulus plan in effect and the likelihood that there is more coming down the road, and the concerns how we will pay for all of this," said Rupert.

Obama's team and House Democrats came up with an $825 billion rescue package, called the American Recovery and Reinvestment bill, which attempts to save and create between 3 million and 4 million jobs by 2010.

"We know that the Congress wants to get the stimulus package through as soon as possible after he gets inaugurated so it brings the issue of debt [volume] really to the forefront," said Mary Ann Hurley, vice president of fixed-income trading at D.A. Davidson.

The Obama team has promised to overhaul the current structure of the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP. The $700 billion bailout plan the Bush administration passed may be restructured to remove toxic debt from banks and put it in a centralized "bad bank," allowing the financial sector to return to health.

"Another reorganization of TARP isn't doing a lot for confidence," said Rupert. "It is a really difficult trading environment right now." With the level of uncertainty in the marketplace still very high, Rupert said some investors may be preferring to sit on the sidelines with their cash.

Obama's administration still has $350 billion of the bailout fund to spend. "It is not a question of is it going to be spent, it is just a question of how," said Hurley. "And that is deficit financing," she added.

With the banking sector steeped in turmoil, the government has been stepping in repeatedly to try to prop up the industry. But with bank stocks - including Citigroup (C, Fortune 500) and Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500) - falling Tuesday, investors started to wonder if the government would need to contribute even more capital to the banks, according to William Larkin, portfolio manager at Cabot Money Management.

"We are talking huge amounts of capital," said Larkin, and in order to raise the capital to keep the banks healthy, the government will have to issue more debt, but Treasury prices have been high, so investors are wondering if there will be demand at these expensive prices.

Bond prices were lower Tuesday because of "two realizations coming to fruition at exactly the same time," said Larkin. First, that there will be a need for additional stimulus. Secondly, "the current yields in the Treasury market are definitely in bubble territory," he said.

Debt coming to market: With yields low and prices of Treasurys high, the market was concerned about whether there would be enough demand going forward to buy up the debt coming to market. "A new risk to Treasurys is going to be anticipated future supply," said Larkin.

This week, the Treasury was set to auction off $119 billion worth of debt. On Tuesday, the government auctioned $27 billion worth of 26-week bills and $27 billion worth of 13-week bills. On Wednesday, the Treasury was set to auction $35 billion worth of cash management bills and $30 billion worth of 4-week bills.

Hurley said that as more and more government debt comes to market, there is concern as to whether there will be enough buyers for it. In particular, Hurley raised the question of foreign buyers leaving the market as the global economic downturn forces foreign investors to spend on their own domestic problems.

Foreign nations "have radically reduced their buying of items that are longer out on the curve because they have their own domestic issues and their own problems and they have other places to spend their money than buying our debt," said Hurley.

Debt prices: Government debt prices held in a tight range through the inauguration ceremony and as the office of the president officially transitioned to Barack Obama. Treasury prices were lower through the session, but lifted slightly off earlier lows as the afternoon continued and as the sell off in the stock market accelerated.

The benchmark 10-year Treasury note fell 1 19/32 to 111 30/32 and its yield rose to 2.38% from 2.34% late Friday. Bond prices and yields move in opposite directions.

The Treasury market was closed Monday in observance of Martin Luther King, Jr. Day.

The 30-year bond sank 2 10/32 to 129 30/32 and its yield rose to 2.97% from 2.91% late Friday.

Meanwhile, the 2-year note held steady at 100 10/32 and yielded 0.72%.

The yield on the 3-month bill held steady at 0.12%, even with Friday. The 3-month bill has been used as a gauge of confidence in the marketplace because investors tend to shuffle funds in and out of the bill as they asses risk in other places.

Lending rates: The 3-month Libor rate ticked lower to 1.12% from 1.13% Monday, according to data available on Bloomberg.com. The overnight lending rate continued to hold steady at 0.14%.

Libor, the London Interbank Offered Rate, is a daily average of rates 16 different banks charge each other to lend money in London, and it is used to calculate adjustable-rate mortgages. More than $350 billion in assets are tied to Libor.

Two credit market gauges showed slightly increased confidence.

The so-called "TED" spread, a measure of banks' willingness to lend, narrowed to 1.00 percentage point from 1.04 percentage points Monday. The lower the TED spread, the more willing investors are to take risks. The rate surged as the credit crisis gripped the economy, but has since fallen off as central banks around the world have lowered interest rates and pumped the economy with liquidity.

On Monday, for example, the British Treasury announced a second bank rescue plan, aimed at easing credit and increasing lending.

Another market indicator, the Libor-OIS spread, dipped to 0.93 percentage point from 0.94 percentage point Monday. The Libor-OIS spread measures how much cash is available for lending between banks, and is used for determining lending rates. The narrower the spread, the more cash is available for lending.

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Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:39 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Not long ago, I believe in Nov. '08, I was watching Jay Leno and he had a whiz kid economist, (sorry I don't remember his name) who graduated from one of the hot-shot Ivy League schools, and he said pretty much the same thing you suggested - Let those businesses that screwed up go under.

He said that capitalism is built on the stronger businesses surviving, expanding and gobbling up the weaker ones. He aimed his remarks at the Auto industry in particular. He said let the Big 3 go and break them up into 10 or so smaller entities. It's been known for years that the auto industry has been poorly run. He said that competition is good and fuels the economy, creates jobs and stimulates further growth here rather than outside the US.

In between cracking jokes, Jay was pretty good with posing some interesting questions and observations. I was surprised, to say the least.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

While I'm not in favor of GM going under, I have no problem with them breaking up. After all, General Motors as an entity really isn't that old, and it wasn't all that long ago that Cadillac, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile were their own separate companies.

GM has Saturn on the auction block, along with SAAB, and rumors have them possibly killing off their Pontiac division. If I'm not mistaken, they've already divested themselves of their majority stake in Subaru.

I'm honestly a bit surprised that Toyota haven't come in to buy up GM, or buy a stake in them at least. They have some history working together in joint ventures, and Toyota could use some of GM's production capabilities if they want to grow their market share some more.

Oh, and Italian auto giant FIAT just bought a 35% stake in Chrysler. So you can add FIAT's legendary "reliability" to Chrysler's, uhmmmm, legendary "reliability". ;)

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:15 AM

DREAMTROVE

Competition is good. Split the autos up.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:35 AM

CHRISISALL

I own a Saturn, the best auto ever made in America.
Eff the imports. Invest in the USA.

The patriotic Chrisisall

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 6:38 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by participant:
Bush is handing Obama an economy that's about to implode

Did you miss the part where it already imploded? I mean, did you sleep through September?

There was McCain chugging along with the lead, momentum, and a hot wife for an old guy (not to mention a VPILF) and boom...a nuclear power plant melts down in California (West Wing reference). After that he was playing catch up. You want to get all conspiracy minded...did Congressional Democrats sabotage the economy to win the Presidential election? Probably not...

I note for the record that things are not that bad. Its still better then it was when Carter took office AND when Carter left office. But, like that tough time, its what we do now that will determine if things get better or worse. Best plan includes tax cuts and lots of stimulas spending on infrastructure and national defense...just like Reagan did. Democrats want to raise taxes like Hoover and spend like Roosevelt, so we may be Great Depression bound. The point is it could go either way. That makes this Obama's responsibility (but mostly because of unfortunate timing).

Sure Bush and the Congressional Democrats may have got us to this point, but Obama is coming in right at the point where his decisions will be decisive. So its on his head how this all turns out. I hope he chooses wisely. Seems he set the right tone with his speech and I like most of his financial team and his split with liberal Democrats in Congress, but we'll just have to wait and see (and hope and pray).

H

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Sure Bush and the Congressional Democrats

AND CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:49 AM

DREAMTROVE

Actually, mostly, congressional republicans were trying to put the breaks on the madness. But I actually agree with hero. This thing was already tanked. I think it was bank tanked, but govt. didn't help, it never does.

I also agree on the vpilf

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:50 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

What the right wing-nuts don't seem to remember is that Bush submitted the budgets to Congress and signed them afterwards. It STILL began and ended with Bush for all those 8 years.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
actually mostly, congressional republicans were trying to put the breaks on the madness.

Actually, they were not. Deregulation and bloated budgets were a large part of the picture. The Medicare Rx scam... Cooked up and shoved thru by Bush & Co.

If you have any info showing otherwise, let me know, 'cause the Repubs were completely in control for 6 of Bush's 8 years, and the madness didn't start a mere two years ago. Or even 8 years ago. The roots go way back. Bush just took it to an extreme.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:52 AM

DREAMTROVE

sig

it's not the party members that were the problem, it's party leadership, with delay and his concealed weapon, etc.

The reality is that Bush got more resistance from the GOP, I know, cause I was there, and wasted too much time watching the stupid thing. I think the clinton crowd loved bush with a passion, because he did everything they wanted him to, including really unpopular things, and the gop took all the blame.

And you know my overall stance, 75% of congress is corrupt and will do whatever they're paid to do, or bullied into. So, given the bullies and bucks the bush backers were passing around, any resistance is remarkable. The dems had enough sympathy on the other side of the aisle to stop bush any time they wanted to. They just didn't want to. sad fact.

My suspicion is that Obama is going to have the same problem: Clinton dems in the way. I think he's going to make some republican allies and try to get around that. we'll see.

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:17 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

Here's a sobering bit of news:

Huge Bush Deregulation Push
Posted Oct. 31, 2008

(Newser) – George W. Bush is president for 11 more weeks, and the White House is plotting to use that time to modify federal regulations to weaken protections for consumers and the environment. The deregulatory initiatives would be some of the most controversial of the Bush era, reports the Washington Post, lifting constraints on such things as drinking water, gas pipelines, power plant emissions, and commercial fishing.

Lobbyists representing everything from the scallop industry to kidney dialysis companies have been swarming the White House to plead for quick action, fearing a less industry-friendly administration after Jan. 20. Up to 90 new regulations are being planned, although it's unclear if the administration will finish them all in time; the Post notes that many of the Clinton administration's last-minute rules changes missed the deadline, and were overturned by incoming Bushies the day after the inauguration.
Source: Washington Post

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:29 AM

KWICKO

SGG: Maybe you missed it, but one of the very first things Obama did was issue an order reversing as much of this stuff as possible. I call it his "Not-so-fast!" Memo.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:57 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
While I'm not in favor of GM going under, I have no problem with them breaking up. After all, General Motors as an entity really isn't that old, and it wasn't all that long ago that Cadillac, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile were their own separate companies.

GM has Saturn on the auction block, along with SAAB, and rumors have them possibly killing off their Pontiac division. If I'm not mistaken, they've already divested themselves of their majority stake in Subaru.

I'm honestly a bit surprised that Toyota haven't come in to buy up GM, or buy a stake in them at least. They have some history working together in joint ventures, and Toyota could use some of GM's production capabilities if they want to grow their market share some more.

Oh, and Italian auto giant FIAT just bought a 35% stake in Chrysler. So you can add FIAT's legendary "reliability" to Chrysler's, uhmmmm, legendary "reliability". ;)

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

But, but, but - then that would mean Toyota would have to start makin crappy gas guzzling cars.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Yes We Did!

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:07 AM

CHRISISALL

Imma hold on to my Saturn as long as possible....

The driven Chrisisall

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:16 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

Thanks for the update, I'm a little sleepy and missed the latest salvo. But I believe that the Bushies (and Republicans in general) battle cry has always been less government and, by extension, less regulations and, as Obama put it, fewer watchdogs minding the store.

What the financial institutions, banks, mortgage companies and the like accomplished under Team Bush was equivalent to looting by mobs during a blackout.
I saw an interesting piece on Nightline last night that had a Congresswoman calling banks on behalf of her constituents trying to renegotiate their mortgages. She was on the phone for nearly 2 hours and then was either cut off or hung up on by Customer Reps.

Just think, this was a Congresswoman, who, after identifying herself, was given the Runaround. So imagine what would happen to Joe Schmo. It was Bank of America who she attempted to contact.
What does that have to do with deregulation? Everything. The government agencies whose job it is to make sure nothing untoward is done, have their hands tied or just don't care.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:03 PM

DREAMTROVE

That's what makes up the GOP, the uncomfy alliance of anarchist-leaning libertarians, wallstreet (honest investors and corporate crooks alike) and religious people who don't like forced secularization. Overall, I think it's a more logical mix, they have a shared goal. I think the democrats are a mix of everyone else, and they dont have a shared goal, I'm expecting Obama to have some chaos in his own party, but I like Obama, I hope he wins 'em over. Still concerned about this war thing, though. Give up on the war and buy Malia and Sasha an island, like Cuba or something.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:15 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

the black guy did it

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