REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Change They Can Litigate

POSTED BY: RUE
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:50
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Saturday, January 3, 2009 6:47 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


http://www.slate.com/id/2206033/

The fringe movement to keep Barack Obama from becoming president.
By David Weigel
Posted Thursday, Dec. 4, 2008, at 4:25 PM ET

If you want to stop Barack Obama from becoming president, there's still time. But you have to act right now. Go to RallyCongress.com, and you can be the 126,000th-odd American to demand "proof of citizenship" from the president-elect. Follow the instructions at WeMustBeHeard.com, and you can join a sit-in outside the Supreme Court of the United States, starting at 8 a.m. Friday, as the justices decide whether to consider a suit filed by a professional poker player that challenges the presidential eligibility of Obama, John McCain, and Socialist Workers candidate Roger Calero.

Can't make it to Washington, D.C.? Too bad—you missed your chance to FedEx a letter to the justices for only $10, sponsored by the venerable right-wing site (and Chuck Norris column outlet) WorldNetDaily. "There is grave, widespread and rapidly growing concern throughout the American public," writes WND Editor Joseph Farah, "that this constitutional requirement is being overlooked and enforcement neglected by state and federal election authorities."

Widespread? Rapidly growing? Who are these people? They're engaging in a new American political tradition: the quadrennial early-winter attempt to overturn presidential results by any means necessary.

Anonymous digital image experts with handles like Techdude and Polarik sprung from the woodwork to prove (shades of Rathergate!) that pixels, spacing, and indentation on the form indicated that the Obama campaign had created the certificate with Adobe Photoshop. The state of Hawaii's official statement that the certificate was legitimate didn't make a dent — after all, who is Registrar of Vital Statistics Alvin Onaka to argue with Techdude?

... This "forgery" became an article of faith in the Obama conspiracy community. When a Hillary Clinton supporter found a birth announcement for Obama from the Aug. 13, 1961, edition of the Honolulu Advertiser, the theorists were unbowed: After all, the Obama family could have phoned that in from Kenya. When Pennsylvania lawyer Philip J. Berg filed the first birth-related injunction against Obama this August, asking that Obama be ruled "ineligible to run for United States Office of the President," he alleged that the certificate had been proved a forgery by the "extensive Forensic testing" of anonymous experts and claimed that Obama's campaign had simply inserted his name over that of his half-sister, Maya. That would have been quite a trick, as Maya Soetoro-Ng was actually born in Indonesia.

... None of that stopped Berg from stoking the conspiracy theorists. On Oct. 16, an Anabaptist minister named Ron McRae called Sarah Hussein Obama, the president-elect's 86-year-old paternal step-grandmother, at her home in Kenya. Two translators were on the line when McRae asked if the elder Obama was "present" when the president-elect was born. One of the translators says "yes." McRae contacted Berg and gave him a partial transcript of the call with a signed affidavit. He (McRae) opted not to include the rest of the call (with Obama's paternal step-grandmother), in which he asks the question more directly—"Was he born in Mombassa?"—and the translators, finally understanding him, tell him repeatedly that the president-elect was born in Hawaii.

The Hawaiian documentation, the 1961 newspaper announcement, the phony evidence from Sarah Obama—all of that aside, the idea that Obama wasn't born in Honolulu goes against everything we know about his rather well-documented life. Barack Obama Sr. came to America as part of a 1959 program for Kenyan students—he did not return home until 1965, years after he left his wife and son. Ann Dunham was three months pregnant when she married Obama Sr. and 18 years old when she gave birth. There is no record of Dunham ever traveling to Kenya, much less the year after the Mau Mau rebellion ended, when she was pregnant and when she had no disposable income to speak of. ...

How much further will the fight to de-certify Obama go? It won't stop if the Electoral College votes for Obama, as the skeptics will try to get a congressman or senator to officially challenge the result. Rep. Chris Cannon of Utah was willing to believe that Bill Ayers wrote Dreams From My Father, so the skeptics might have a chance.

And if every vote certification goes off without a hitch and Obama is inaugurated on Jan. 20? Gary Kreep is ready for that.

"When Obama starts signing executive orders and legislation," Kreep says, "I'll be filing lawsuits unless and until he proves he's an American citizen. Some judge, someday, is going to want this proved on the merits. You can run, but you can't hide."

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Sunday, January 4, 2009 8:25 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


If the Democrats can still have the "Bush Didn't Win The Election In 2000 Or 2004(Or Both)" crowd, why can't the Republicans have the "Obama Can't Legally Be President" crowd? Seems only fair.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, January 4, 2009 8:42 AM

WHOZIT


All they have to do is show the "REAL" certificate, the argument that it's locked away and can't be gotten too (Must be next to the Ark of the Covenent) is crap.

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Monday, January 5, 2009 9:59 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


All they have to so is show the 'real' certificate --- why again ? Explain why, if you can.

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Monday, January 5, 2009 10:02 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
If the Democrats can still have the "Bush Didn't Win The Election In 2000 Or 2004(Or Both)" crowd, why can't the Republicans have the "Obama Can't Legally Be President" crowd? Seems only fair.

"Keep the Shiny side up"



Which, by the same token, means we can ridicule that deluded segment just as much.

I mean, look, you've got zit boy on your side. That should say a whole lot right there.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, January 5, 2009 11:16 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Zit - I'm still waiting for an answer.

"'All they have to so is show the 'real' certificate '--- why again ? Explain why, if you can."

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Monday, January 5, 2009 12:53 PM

STORYMARK


Zit has trouble with coherent sentences. Expecting a direct answer is asking a lot.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, January 5, 2009 12:59 PM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Zit - I'm still waiting for an answer.

"'All they have to so is show the 'real' certificate '--- why again ? Explain why, if you can."

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Do'nt you want to make them look like fools? Of corse you do!!! You and your whores in the press should be trying to get that certificate now!!

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Monday, January 5, 2009 5:49 PM

DC4BS


At this point, I want the S-Court to order him to "provide proof of citizenship" just cause I'm ornery...

I mean, it really does make one wonder when the man spends many thousands of dollars on lots of lawyers fighting tooth and nail pulling every delaying tactic they can out of their buts rather than spend $10-$15 to get Hawaii to give him a certified copy of it.

I mean, "I" could easily get a certified copy of my birth certificate (NOTE: I did NOT say "Certificate of Live Birth" which is something quite different).

If he was, in fact, born in Hawaii, this whole matter could have been resolved VERY simply and cheaply in a matter of days without spending a penny on any lawyers at all.

What excuse does he have for NOT providing something that should be no more effort than spending 5 minutes to write a letter and then take the resulting documents and forward it/them to the court?

WHY spend all those thousands and go through all the legal contortions to have each case eventually thrown out for such ridiculous reasons as "the claimant has no legal standing in this matter". If a concerned American Citizen (who CAN, by the way show his birth certificate) has no legal standing, can you tell me just who DOES have legal standing to ask this question?

It just plain and simple does NOT pass the smell test. Just what does he have to hide?

My (probably unwelcome) 2 cents...

----

All I can figure is that if we WAS born in Hawaii, there's something on the REAL certificate that would be vastly embarrassing, like maybe the listed birth fathers name was not OBamma or something... But at this point, even if that were the case, who really cares?

------------------------------------------
dc4bs

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Monday, January 5, 2009 5:59 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"What excuse does he have for NOT providing something ..."

The fact that's it's not required of anyone to do so beyond the preliminary stages of proving your qualifications.

Unless, of course, you think it's fair and reasonable to set new and arbitrary requirements that MUST be met, simply to appease the whim of partisan nutcases. If you want to set that precedent, then go join Zit and the rest. And consider your position by the company you're in.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 12:21 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Because once you bow to that kind of whim, soon you find yourself hopping on command like some demented frog on a leash.

As if that weren't bloody OBVIOUS ?

-F

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 2:44 AM

RIVERLOVE


The Obama kissy-face press sure went out of their way to send 300 lawyers and investigators to Alaska to dig up un-vetted dirt on Sarah Palin. But when it comes to Obama and his appointments they are deaf, dumb, and blind. I doubt wheteher any single one of the 60+ million Obama supporters would ever have envisioned a NEW CLINTON PRESIDENCY under the "Obama" administration. Leon Panetta?? Leon Panetta to head the CIA?? Leon Panetta?? Ok, yeah, maybe he still has his Super-Spy De-coder Ring from a box of Lucky Charms he ate in 1959, but other than that he simply has no experience and no qualifications to head up the CIA. The SAME Leon Panetta who never saw or heard of Monica Lewinsky as she pranced around the White House that he was the Chief of Staff of. Good intelligence there Leon! So it's Panetta, Emmanuel, and the rest of the Klinton Kops now running the country. And you think a little thing like a verifiable birth certificate is going to matter one way or another? All ANYONE in the Media cares about now is where they will be seated for Obama's Inauguration, and what cocktail party they're going too. Obama is already showing that he is un-principled, reckless, and severly ethically challenged.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 9:59 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Because once you bow to that kind of whim, soon you find yourself hopping on command like some demented frog on a leash.

As if that weren't bloody OBVIOUS ?

-F



Ever see the questionnaire you're required to fill out to apply for a position in the Obama administration? Talk about invasive.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:10 AM

FREELANCERTEX


oooooooooooooooooooooh I love political arguments. People reduce themselves to namecalling and petty jeers, it's fun. *runs to get popcorn*




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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:12 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"People reduce themselves to namecalling and petty jeers ..."

It's possible to both argue facts AND namecall and jeer. Try it. Arguing facts, I mean.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:19 AM

FREELANCERTEX


Well, seeing as how you were the one to start the namecalling, I don't see why you should start ridiculing me. I'm not getting involved in the argument (because I'm not on any particular side), I'm just here to watch.

FYI when you comment on something I've said *see first comment* don't normally expect a reply from me because in these situations I usually just pop in to see what people are saying and leave. I only say something when people start getting unintelligent and snooty with their replies. It happens, no need for snootiness :\

namecalling and jeering isn't professional by any means, I don't care who you are. I have no respect for it.



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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:28 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Not the first, actually. Also, I didn't call anyone here names. Check it out.

And, if you think, jeering is so unprofessional - why do you indulge ? Just curious.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:34 AM

FREELANCERTEX


Quote:

Originally posted by Rue: Zit - I'm still waiting for an answer.
Don't tell me 'zit' is a nickname for whozit. And you may not have been the first, but you instigated and encouraged it by adding to what StoryMark said.

I'm not jeering at anyone, I was commenting on the overall atmosphere of the thread, and how the people have been conducting themselves in general. All of these threads tend to go in the same direction, it's a trend.

And with that, ladies and gentlemen, I take my leave.


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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:38 AM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Not the first, actually. Also, I didn't call anyone here names. Check it out.

And, if you think, jeering is so unprofessional - why do you indulge ? Just curious.



Hey Rue, dear Rue, I didn't realize we were being "observed" over our "professionalism". I may have to go back into the archives for a spell and clean things up a tad. I never had the luxury of making the calls from the cheap seats. I'll bet it feels good to be so rightous.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:42 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"Don't tell me 'zit' is a nickname for whozit."

It is. You'll see I often shorten handles, and Zit isn't the only example.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:44 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"I didn't realize we were being "observed" over our "professionalism"."

That apparently is what FreeLancerTex (FLT for short) does. "namecalling and jeering isn't professional by any means, I don't care who you are. I have no respect for it." If you want to ask about it, don't come to me.

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:47 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Swenyways - Back on track -

Anyone have anything intelligent to say that's on-topic ?

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Tuesday, January 6, 2009 11:50 AM

RIVERLOVE


Just for the record Rue, and with the most "professionalism" I can muster up here at work, I'd just like to say "Although I generally totally dis-agree with everything you write and think, the truth is that you and a few others are the sole reason I even stay in here. Little fun or intelligent debate without you."

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