REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

MY CURRENT FEELING ON THE CANDIDATES

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:03
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2008
PAGE 1 of 2

Saturday, September 6, 2008 9:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Hello,

These are my current feelings on the candidates. My opinions may be ill informed, and if so, I ask anyone with better information to illucidate me. I'd also like to hear other people's feelings on the candidates. I hope this can be kept civil.

-=-=-=-=-=-

OBAMA -
Positives: Though this candidate has little experience, Experience is not my top priority. In some circumstances, experience can actually be a detriment, especially if that experience involves entrenching yourself in the failed political machine and policies of the past. Has a positive message, and the best fiscal plan for the nation as a whole.

Negatives: Will spend money on social programs that I am not wholly in support of. Has stated vocal opposition to my 2nd ammendment rights.

BIDEN -
Positives: Understands the ugly political machine and process, and can school Obama how to get around roadblocks.

Negatives: Has been in the political machine for so long, he can't help but have sold himself to someone. He also has stated vocal opposition to my 2nd ammendment rights.


VS.


MCCAIN -
Positives: Has stated vocal support for my 2nd ammendment rights. Hmmm.... That's all I have right now.

Negatives: Has been in the political machine for so long, he can't help but have sold himself to someone. He vocally supports the troops but has failed to back that up with legislation. I fear his fiscal policies will bankrupt a nation already teetering on the edge. He seems to change his opinion based on what will benefit him at the moment.

PALIN -

Positives: Though this candidate has little experience, Experience is not my top priority. In some circumstances, experience can actually be a detriment, especially if that experience involves entrenching yourself in the failed political machine and policies of the past. Has stated vocal support for my 2nd ammendment rights. Has stated vocal support of the military.

Negatives: Is under investigation for abuse of power. Tried to ban books, which is a violation of Free Speech and a foul-looking glimpse into her Educational policies. Would like to overturn Roe vs. Wade. Has been overly antagonistic in recent speeches.


-Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:11 AM

SERGEANTX


Bought and paid for. No one makes it through the current system without approval from the party machinery. That approval comes at a price.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:38 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


A little off topic, but I found these numbers interesting:

"Nationwide, there are about 42 million registered Democrats and about 31 million Republicans, according to statistics compiled by The Associated Press."



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:28 AM

WHOZIT


Negatives; B.O. has big ears and likes hot sweaty man sex.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:39 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Negatives; B.O. has big ears and likes hot sweaty man sex.




You sure seem preoccupied with hot sweaty man sex. Perhaps you do protest too much?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 12:04 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Does this person, Whozit, ever contribute to discussions, or is he wholly enraptured with ears and homophobia?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 12:08 PM

CHRISISALL


Anthony, hello.

I'd say your take is fairly close to my own.
One Obama plus though: Not too young & not too old.

Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 12:46 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Does this person, Whozit, ever contribute to discussions, or is he wholly enraptured with ears and homophobia?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner




SHHHHHH! do not feed the troll!

*FMF pokes it with a stick*

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 1:04 PM

WHOZIT


Pirate News has proof, B.O. likes hot sticky man sex. HA!! In you're face!...........and great big ears!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 1:38 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Does this person, Whozit, ever contribute to discussions, or is he wholly enraptured with ears and homophobia?


Smacks of wishful thinking. Whozit want's a piece of Obama, no doubt...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:19 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Does this person, Whozit, ever contribute to discussions, or is he wholly enraptured with ears and homophobia?

--Anthony


I think Whozit provides much needed comic relief. That's a contribution in my book. At least he doesn't fill the threads with endless repeats of the same photoshopped pictures like PN.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:35 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

MCCAIN -
Positives: Has stated vocal support for my 2nd ammendment rights.


I'm a one issue voter when it comes to the Second Amendment. If a person doesn't believe in protecting my Constitutional rights, they are disqualified as far as I'm concerned.

"Barack Obama's Ten Point Plan to 'Change' the Second Amendment"

1. Ban use of firearms for home defense.

2. Pass Federal laws eliminating your Right -to Carry.

3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.

4. Close down 90% of the gun shops in America.

5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500%

7. RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FIVE MILLION CRIMINALS INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.

8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms.

9. Mandate a government issued license to purchase a firearm.

10. Appoint judges to the U. S. Supreme Court and Federal judiciary who share his views on the Second Amendment.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 6, 2008 5:43 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

MCCAIN -
Positives: Has stated vocal support for my 2nd ammendment rights.


I'm a one issue voter when it comes to the Second Amendment. If a person doesn't believe in protecting my Constitutional rights, they are disqualified as far as I'm concerned.

"Barack Obama's Ten Point Plan to 'Change' the Second Amendment"

1. Ban use of firearms for home defense.

2. Pass Federal laws eliminating your Right -to Carry.

3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.

4. Close down 90% of the gun shops in America.

5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500%

7. RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FIVE MILLION CRIMINALS INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.

8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms.

9. Mandate a government issued license to purchase a firearm.

10. Appoint judges to the U. S. Supreme Court and Federal judiciary who share his views on the Second Amendment.



looks like a plan to me

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:22 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

MCCAIN -
Positives: Has stated vocal support for my 2nd ammendment rights.


I'm a one issue voter when it comes to the Second Amendment. If a person doesn't believe in protecting my Constitutional rights, they are disqualified as far as I'm concerned.

"Barack Obama's Ten Point Plan to 'Change' the Second Amendment"

1. Ban use of firearms for home defense.

2. Pass Federal laws eliminating your Right -to Carry.

3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.

4. Close down 90% of the gun shops in America.

5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500%

7. RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FIVE MILLION CRIMINALS INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.

8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms.

9. Mandate a government issued license to purchase a firearm.

10. Appoint judges to the U. S. Supreme Court and Federal judiciary who share his views on the Second Amendment.



looks like a plan to me



So you were lying in the other thread when you said

"I have no problem with people owning guns responsibly. I DO have a problem with people who have no idea what it is they are citing for the affirmation of their right to own guns".

Typical gun grabbing liberal. But you forgot that your supposed to get your guy elected before you show your true colors. Not that you or Obama are fooling anyone with your lies.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:33 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
So you were lying in the other thread when you said

"I have no problem with people owning guns responsibly. I DO have a problem with people who have no idea what it is they are citing for the affirmation of their right to own guns".

Typical gun grabbing liberal. But you forgot that your supposed to get your guy elected before you show your true colors. Not that you or Obama are fooling anyone with your lies.



Ok Mr Deliberately Obtuse - the operative word in that sentence was "responsibly".

Why lie to fools?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:45 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

What would responsible gun ownership and use look like?

Thanks,

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

MCCAIN -
Positives: Has stated vocal support for my 2nd ammendment rights.


I'm a one issue voter when it comes to the Second Amendment. If a person doesn't believe in protecting my Constitutional rights, they are disqualified as far as I'm concerned.

"Barack Obama's Ten Point Plan to 'Change' the Second Amendment"

1. Ban use of firearms for home defense.

2. Pass Federal laws eliminating your Right -to Carry.

3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.

4. Close down 90% of the gun shops in America.

5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500%

7. RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FIVE MILLION CRIMINALS INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.

8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms.

9. Mandate a government issued license to purchase a firearm.

10. Appoint judges to the U. S. Supreme Court and Federal judiciary who share his views on the Second Amendment.



I'd like to see the source for these allegations. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like some context.

You should also note that McCain and Lieberman put their names on an anti-gun bill that would have had the effect of doing most - if not all - of the things you're worried about Obama doing.

And you might note that earlier this year, an expanded version of the Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) was introduced into the U.S. House of Representatives - sponsored by four REPUBLICAN Congressmen.

Looks like gun enthusiasts may well be Screwed In '08.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 3:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

What would responsible gun ownership and use look like?



Not buying illegal or illegally-modifed weapons from unscrupulous individuals.

Having proper training in gun use and safety.

Shooting at gun ranges. NOT shooting at road signs. :)

Keeping guns and ammo out of the hands of kids, at least without proper adult supervision.

Not drinking and shooting. Not doing drugs and shooting.

Not waving your guns around at a party.

Most of this is common-sense stuff. Do you ever wonder why they call it "common sense" when it seems so damn rare?



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:11 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

MCCAIN -
Positives: Has stated vocal support for my 2nd ammendment rights.


I'm a one issue voter when it comes to the Second Amendment. If a person doesn't believe in protecting my Constitutional rights, they are disqualified as far as I'm concerned.

"Barack Obama's Ten Point Plan to 'Change' the Second Amendment"

1. Ban use of firearms for home defense.

2. Pass Federal laws eliminating your Right -to Carry.

3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.

4. Close down 90% of the gun shops in America.

5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500%

7. RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FIVE MILLION CRIMINALS INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.

8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms.

9. Mandate a government issued license to purchase a firearm.

10. Appoint judges to the U. S. Supreme Court and Federal judiciary who share his views on the Second Amendment.



I'd like to see the source for these allegations. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like some context.

You should also note that McCain and Lieberman put their names on an anti-gun bill that would have had the effect of doing most - if not all - of the things you're worried about Obama doing.

And you might note that earlier this year, an expanded version of the Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) was introduced into the U.S. House of Representatives - sponsored by four REPUBLICAN Congressmen.

Looks like gun enthusiasts may well be Screwed In '08.




Mike



"In 1996 Obama filled out a candidate questionnaire in which he indicated full-throated support for a ban on 'The manufacture, sale and possession of handguns'".

In 1999 while running for the US house seat he called for a "500 percent increase in taxes on firearms and ammunition.".

In 2003 Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois Senate which was a ban on "assault rifles".

The others are readily available on the Internet. A few of these Obama would dispute, but douments have been found that show them all to be true.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:20 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
"In 1996 Obama filled out a candidate questionnaire in which he indicated full-throated support for a ban on 'The manufacture, sale and possession of handguns'".




So what? I fully and completely support a woman's right to have an abortion - doesn't mean I would have one.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:20 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

What would responsible gun ownership and use look like?



Not buying illegal or illegally-modifed weapons from unscrupulous individuals.

Having proper training in gun use and safety.

Shooting at gun ranges. NOT shooting at road signs. :)

Keeping guns and ammo out of the hands of kids, at least without proper adult supervision.

Not drinking and shooting. Not doing drugs and shooting.

Not waving your guns around at a party.

Most of this is common-sense stuff. Do you ever wonder why they call it "common sense" when it seems so damn rare?



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock



Again, there is that whole "LOVE" thing!



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:28 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
"In 1996 Obama filled out a candidate questionnaire in which he indicated full-throated support for a ban on 'The manufacture, sale and possession of handguns'".




So what? I fully and completely support a woman's right to have an abortion - doesn't mean I would have one.



Let's see if I'm understanding you correctly. You and Obama what to ban all handguns, but you won't do it because you want women to be able to use handguns for abortions?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:33 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
"In 1996 Obama filled out a candidate questionnaire in which he indicated full-throated support for a ban on 'The manufacture, sale and possession of handguns'".




So what? I fully and completely support a woman's right to have an abortion - doesn't mean I would have one.



Let's see if I'm understanding you correctly. You and Obama what to ban all handguns, but you won't do it because you want women to be able to use handguns for abortions?



I could respond with a serious and well thought out response, but this time I will just say stop trying in your obtuse way to put words in my mouth or a spin that does not exist on what I say.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 4:42 PM

KIRKULES


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
I will just say stop trying in your obtuse way to put words in my mouth


That's the second time you've called me obtuse. What is this strange obsession you have with angles between 90 and 180 degrees. I would prefer you call me acute if you have to use your angle references.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 5:05 PM

SERGEANTX


I'm more oblong.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 5:15 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
I will just say stop trying in your obtuse way to put words in my mouth


That's the second time you've called me obtuse. What is this strange obsession you have with angles between 90 and 180 degrees. I would prefer you call me acute if you have to use your angle references.



Please refer to #2 a and b

ob·tuse
Pronunciation: \äb-ˈtüs, əb-, -ˈtyüs\
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): ob·tus·er; ob·tus·est
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin obtusus blunt, dull, from past participle of obtundere to beat against, blunt, from ob- against + tundere to beat — more at ob-, contusion
Date: 15th century
1 a: not pointed or acute : blunt b (1)of an angle : exceeding 90 degrees but less than 180 degrees (2): having an obtuse angle — see triangle illustration cof a leaf : rounded at the free end
2 a: lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : insensitive, stupid b: difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expression

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 5:40 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Future Mrs. Fillion, If you answered I missed it. What would responsible gun ownership and use look like?

Thanks,

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, September 7, 2008 6:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


"In 1996 Obama filled out a candidate questionnaire in which he indicated full-throated support for a ban on 'The manufacture, sale and possession of handguns'".

In 1999 while running for the US house seat he called for a "500 percent increase in taxes on firearms and ammunition.".

In 2003 Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois Senate which was a ban on "assault rifles".



Thank you for that.

Now, has he actually AUTHORED or SPONSORED any such legislation? Because McCain clearly has.

I think what you have to start getting your head around is that, like it or not, there ARE going to be changes coming, and there WILL be challenges to the Second Amendment. I - naively perhaps, given the recent history of the current regime - still hold out some hope that there won't be radical changes, and that the Supreme Court will continue to hold the 2nd as a viable and living Amendment. It CAN be done away with completely, but only through another Constitutional Amendment, which I think the odds of are really quite slim.

I think that the Fourth Amendment is clearly under much more attack than the Second at this time - and if the alphabet agencies can come into my house and rummage through my stuff at any time, and for any reason they want to, then what good does it do me to have legally owned guns?

Just throwing that idea out there for debate... You may find my positions on the Fourth as a bit extreme, but I find people who constantly cry that "They're gonna take our guns!" to be at least as over-the-top.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 12:56 AM

ID


Quote:

Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

MCCAIN -
Positives: Has stated vocal support for my 2nd ammendment rights.


I'm a one issue voter when it comes to the Second Amendment. If a person doesn't believe in protecting my Constitutional rights, they are disqualified as far as I'm concerned.

"Barack Obama's Ten Point Plan to 'Change' the Second Amendment"

1. Ban use of firearms for home defense.

2. Pass Federal laws eliminating your Right -to Carry.

3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns.

4. Close down 90% of the gun shops in America.

5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.

6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500%

7. RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FIVE MILLION CRIMINALS INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.

8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms.

9. Mandate a government issued license to purchase a firearm.

10. Appoint judges to the U. S. Supreme Court and Federal judiciary who share his views on the Second Amendment.



I don't own a firearm, yet. I believe wholeheartedly in the 2nd amendment and the right to defend ourselves against our government. When someone takes so many steps to remove that right, it's clear they are on the wrong side. When you feel like it's time to bury the guns, it's time to dig them up.

"1. Ban use of firearms for home defense."
Umm..I believe in people being able to defend themselves and their loved ones. Making self defense illegal seems to fall on the "wrong" side of things to me. I know it's cliche, but "when owning firearms is outlawed, only outlaws will own firearms." People who shoot someone breaking into their home should not be considered criminals,(more like heroes) just as victims of assault shouldn't be charged if they fight back. (really, should a victim of rape be charged with assault when they lift that knee into the groin?) I'm bored with the law supporting those who break it, and Americans supporting those who want us dead.

"2. Pass Federal laws eliminating your Right -to Carry."
Again, don't carry....yet, but I'd sooner support a federal law that mandates carrying. Who would try to rob a bank/convenience store if they KNEW everyone inside was packing?

"3. Ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns." Fear much?

"4. Close down 90% of the gun shops in America." see #3

"5. Ban rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting." Again, Don't own yet, but I will if the pussifist are elected. I don't support hunting for sport or pleasure, But I do think those who are experienced in it, will be the only ones eating well when an apocalypse comes.


"6. Increase federal taxes on guns and ammunition by 500%" NO! Go ahead a legalize marijuana and then increase the Twinkie tax. Junk food tax! Cookies, Twinkies, Cheetos etc. Also... drug test when ya vote. Positive for drugs? vote thrown out. Do you really want people who aren't thinking clearly deciding how the country will be run for the next 4 years? Drunk drivers decide traffic laws?

"7. RESTORE VOTING RIGHTS FOR FIVE MILLION CRIMINALS INCLUDING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF USING A GUN TO COMMIT A VIOLENT CRIME.
" Only someone who believed they would get the support of these violent criminals would support this. You really want the country run by someone that gets the support of murderers and rapists?

"8. Expand the Clinton semi-auto ban to include millions more firearms."
I get wanting to remove powerful firearms from the criminals, but again, making them illegal puts them only in the hands of those who break the law. And the Clintons should have been executed for treason. http://books.google.com/books?id=hfnIDFNEXR0C&dq=Dereliction+of+duty&p
g=PP1&ots=95YzqIReze&sig=Fw7h96vOEh-m8lLiGDQGOOqbodQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA7,M1


"9. Mandate a government issued license to purchase a firearm." huh? really not a bad idea. You really should know that I'm coming for you when you try to turn my country into a communist state. oh... unless I'm a criminal and I don't follow the law. Then I have a trunk full of AK-47s that no one knows about..... oops.


"10. Appoint judges to the U. S. Supreme Court and Federal judiciary who share his views on the Second Amendment." Ah, appointing officials who can be bought and sold by people who are bought and sold. good call.

Vote for Obama.... "Change!" Communism is a big change from our Republic.


"O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the cowards?"



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 2:10 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Anthony....You are not being honest. How can you possibly say that Obama & Palin have similar "inexperience." I guess you don't know that Sarah Palin has been a Governor, the most popular Governor in America (80% approval) for 2 years, and previously a Mayor for 10 year. That's 12 years of Executive experience. Does Obama have one minute of Executive experence? Huh? Nada, Zilch.

And foreign policy experence...well lets' see...Obama never held one meeting in committee in the Senate on any Foreign Affairs issue...nothing. Sarah Palin makes Executive decisions every day, balanced budgets, created budget surplusses, has a span of control of 150,000 state workers, visited her National Guard troops in Iraq & Afghanistan. She oversees the Prison system in Alaska too. Add up everything Obama & Biden ever did in their entire lives and it doesn't even come close to just Palin's resume. Then consider McCain's experience. Obama is totally not worthy. He's the least qualified person to ever run for President. Palin & McCain are experienced leaders with a track record of accomplishments. There is no comparison, none, if you can see it objectively. Most here can't and won't, maybe you can. In the big picture it doesn't matter what is written here. The imporatant thing is that all of America is getting it now. Palin has energized not only Republicans, but working families and single working women. She is the perfect role model for women. The tidal wave of admiration and affection for Palin is phenominal. A woman who can do it all; govern with strength, raise a family, and not be afraid of any man. New polls have McCain ahead of Obama by 4 points, out of the statistical error factor for the first time....McCain is pulling away. He will never trail again. Also, I wouldn't think that a fair-minded person could justify the horrible sexist attacks against Sarah Palin and her family. But I always underestimate the vileness of the hard-core demented Left. You feel good about those attacks? Enjoy them now; every new one just makes Sarah Palin more popular.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 3:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Anthony....You are not being honest. How can you possibly say that Obama & Palin have similar "inexperience." I guess you don't know that Sarah Palin has been a Governor, the most popular Governor in America (80% approval) for 2 years, and previously a Mayor for 10 year. That's 12 years of Executive experience. Does Obama have one minute of Executive experence? Huh? Nada, Zilch.



What LEGISLATIVE experience does Palin have? None, nada, zilch, zero. She's supposed to take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, and there's no evidence she's ever even read the "goddam piece of paper."

How important is "executive" experience, anyway? Dubya had it. Does that make you feel better?





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 3:57 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
What LEGISLATIVE experience does Palin have? None, nada, zilch, zero. She's supposed to take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, and there's no evidence she's ever even read the "goddam piece of paper."

How important is "executive" experience, anyway? Dubya had it. Does that make you feel better?


I skippered a yacht once. I ran a bar. I've got a fair bit of executive experience in various places. Can I be VP?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 4:03 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Anthony....You are not being honest. How can you possibly say that Obama & Palin have similar "inexperience." I guess you don't know that Sarah Palin has been a Governor, the most popular Governor in America (80% approval) for 2 years, and previously a Mayor for 10 year. That's 12 years of Executive experience. Does Obama have one minute of Executive experence? Huh? Nada, Zilch.



What LEGISLATIVE experience does Palin have? None, nada, zilch, zero. She's supposed to take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, and there's no evidence she's ever even read the "goddam piece of paper."

How important is "executive" experience, anyway? Dubya had it. Does that make you feel better?





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock


I know you're having a bad day today because McCain has soared past Obama in the polls. I know you want to ignore that. But hey guy, smell the coffee will ya? McCain has enough Legislative experience to deal with the Democratic Congress. In case you never learned this in school, the President runs the Executive Branch, Congress is the Legislative Branch...see the difference?


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 4:51 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Me, having a bad day? Hardly. McCane "soaring" past Obama? last I heard, he's up by 2 to 4 points. He's soaring pretty low, huh?

And I'm glad to hear you know the difference between the Legislative and Executive branches of government. Did you also know that the Executive PROPOSES new law to Congress? That kind of requires that he actually know a thing or two about the law, you see, tough guy?

I'd have thought that the last eight years would have taught you a little something about the value of "executive experience".

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 5:07 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Did you forget about the 7 point deficit he made up before surging ahead by 4? By the way, I'm not a tough guy. If I seem too obnoxiously upbeat about McCain's chances now I'm sorry.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 9:06 AM

FREMDFIRMA


I still think it's asinine to be afraid of a mere tool, an object, with no will or motivating force of it's own.

I have a pistol, first aid kit, fire extinguisher and spare tire all for the same damn reason, the object is to not need it - but if you should need it, you need it right now, right here.

And like any powerful tool, it can be dangerous as hell if you have no idea how to use it correctly and properly.

But you don't see a hue and cry to ban jigsaws, do you ?

ANY attempt, no matter how well cloaked, to infringe upon second amendment rights has nothing to do with guns, and everything to do with control.

It's not the guns they fear, so much as the fact that as long as we have them, they cannot force us to do their bidding.

It's just that simple.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 1:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

But you don't see a hue and cry to ban jigsaws, do you ?



No, but maybe there should be; I got a nasty cut when one of those got away from me! :)

Okay, for the humor-impaired among you, please note that the following is satire. It's designed to outrage you, and to make you think about things in a bit of a different light:

What I'd really like to know - REALLY - is why there isn't a hue and cry to ban the automobile. Seriously. No matter how safe we try to make them, more than 30,000 of us manage to die every year in cars. More than all the gun deaths, in fact. And they're usually chalked up as "accidents", which means FAR more people die from unintentional auto accidents than from unintentional shootings.

And it's not like cars are NECESSARY. For proof, I'd just point to the fact that they didn't exist until just over a hundred years ago, and we seemed to get along without them.

Now, if we can't get rid of cars altogether, can we at least agree that we need to exert more government control over them? We should be required to run a background check on anyone who tries to purchase an automobile, and a mandatory waiting period before you're allowed to purchase one. We should have biometric locking systems so that only the registered owner can drive the car; we should make it a felony to let someone else drive your car. We should make it a felony to have an accident in your car within 1000 feet of a school. And we should absolutely make it a felony to talk on the phone, eat your food, or drink your drink while driving a car. And drinking and driving should get you at least ten years' hard time.

And you should have to register with a federal database before you can even go look at a new car, or go to a car show.

Showing off in your car would be considered "brandishing a deadly weapon" and the punishments would be severe. Driving your car inside city limits would be a crime as well. In some places, you'd have to apply for a permit to park a car in your garage - and they might refuse to issue you such a permit at the Chief Law Enforcement Officer's discretion.

Anyone think this is ridiculous? It's what we're all being asked to do with guns. And I should note that there is NO protection at all in the Constitution for automobiles. None.

Discuss among yourselves.






Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 2:03 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Future Mrs. Fillion, If you answered I missed it. What would responsible gun ownership and use look like?

Thanks,

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner



AnthonyT, Kwicko answered so well that I will just say DITTO!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 2:07 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
What LEGISLATIVE experience does Palin have? None, nada, zilch, zero. She's supposed to take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, and there's no evidence she's ever even read the "goddam piece of paper."

How important is "executive" experience, anyway? Dubya had it. Does that make you feel better?


I skippered a yacht once. I ran a bar. I've got a fair bit of executive experience in various places. Can I be VP?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
]

Sorry, I have more Foreign Policy experience than you so I get it. I mean I drove through Canada once and I have lived in Panama, Italy and England and Greece! Oh yeah and you being a foreigner and all!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 2:13 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Oh yeah and you being a foreigner and all!

Ergo I have more Foreign policy experience, QED.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 2:18 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Oh yeah and you being a foreigner and all!

Ergo I have more Foreign policy experience, QED.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
]

that's too logical!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 2:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


FMF, your sig kills me. It reminds me of a song by Ray Wiley Hubbard - "Conversations With The Devil"

Quote:

I had a dream last night I was cast into Hell by a jealous God
The Devil walked up and said you don't need no lightning rod
It hardly ever rains down here I can't recall the last storm
You aint gonna need that leather jacket either - it gets kinda warm
There's one way in and there's no way out looks like you're to stay
The place is a mess, it's overcrowded, more are coming in everyday.

I said ah man, wait a minute there's gotta be something wrong
I aint a bad guy; I just write these little songs
I always pay my union dues and don't stay in the passing lane
And he said what about all that whiskey and cocaine
I said well yeah but that's no reason to throw me in Hell
'Cause I didn't use the cocaine to get high, I just liked the way it smelled.

He said come on over here son, let me show you around
Over there's where we put the preachers, I never liked those clowns
They're always blaming me for everything wrong under the sun
It aint harder to do what's right, it's just maybe not as much fun
Then they walk around thinking they're better than me and you
Then they get caught in a motel room doing what they said not to do.

Now the murderers and the rapists they go in this firey lake
As well as most of the politicians and the cops on the take
And all the mothers that wait to get to KMart to spank their kids
Instead of showing how to do what's right, they just hit 'em for what they did
And all the daddy's who run off and abandon their daughters and sons
Oh anybody that hurts a child is gonna burn until it's done.

Everybody is down here, I said - who's up in Heaven with God and the Son
Oh some saints and mystics and students of metaphysics 101
People who care and share and love and try to do what's right
Beautiful old souls who read little stories to their babies every night
What you won't find up in Heaven are christian coalition right wing conservatives
Country program directors and Nashville record executives.

Now I said I've made some mistakes, but I'm not as bad as those guys
How can God do this to me or can't she sympathize
He said you're wrong about God being cruel and mean
Oh God is the most loving thing that's never been seen
I said hotshot tell me this which religion is the truest
He said they're all about the same, Buddha was not a Christian, but Jesus
woulda made a good buddhist.

Well, I thought about my future I didn't seem to have much of one
I looked around to leave but there was no place to run
I said I don't suppose I could go back and try living again
You know like reincarnation I hear that's the way it's always been
I can't answer that he said you're gonna have to wait for that response
But it's not any more unusual to be born twice than it is to be born once.

Well, it looked like I was gonna be stuck here as far as I could tell
I thought I might as well suck up you know what the hell
I said you know that song that Charlie Daniels did
About how you went down to Georgia and played fiddle against that kid
He said yeah it broke my heart but you know what are you gonna do
I said to tell you the truth I thought your solo was the better of the two.

Well, then I woke up and I was lying in my bed
I went upstairs and kissed my little boy on his sleeping head
I took this dream as a sign from God so I thought I'd better pray
I said don't ever speak to me directly and thanks anyway
Now so much has changed about me besides me just giving up red meat
Some get spiritual cause they see the light and some cause they feel the heat...








Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 4:31 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Future Mrs. Fillion, If you answered I missed it. What would responsible gun ownership and use look like?

Thanks,

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner



AnthonyT, Kwicko answered so well that I will just say DITTO!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi




Hello,

FutureMrs.Fillion, I wish the whole Democratic party felt this way about common sense gun ownership. I'd probably be a Democrat tomorrow.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 5:18 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


In getting back to our feelings on the candidates, I suppose I should point out that the "no experience" Obama actually has at least as much (or more) experience as Abraham Lincoln had when he won the White House as the first Republican President.

Lincoln:
Illinois House of Representatives (1834-1842) - 8 years
United States House of Represnetatives (1847-1849) - 2 years

Obama:
Illinois Senate (January 1997 – November 2004) - 7.75 years
United States Senate (January 2005 - Present) - 3.5 years

So Obama has a little over a year more experience than did the beloved Lincoln, in roughly similar elected offices (except that Lincoln stuck to the House, and Obama stuck to the Senate).

A lack of experience in probably the toughest time in our nation's history didn't really seem to hamstring Lincoln, did it? Just another nobody from Illinois with a few flowery speeches, some time spent in the state legislature, and a single term as a U.S. Congressman.

I guess I just have to ask the Republicans one question: Why do y'all hate Lincoln so much?




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 5:46 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I guess I just have to ask the Republicans one question: Why do y'all hate Lincoln so much?

I see. So you’re saying that under Obama we’ll end up in a 4-year civil war – the bloodiest, most destructive war in American history?

Hmmm. I’ll pass.


But on another note:

Although it is an interesting to note that Barack Obama, a candidate and likely contender for US presidency – and a “negro” – has the same experience as President Lincoln. I found that very enlightening? Granted it only took 200 years and a civil war, but damn we made it.

How ungrateful Obama is to the party that set in motion his presidency.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 8, 2008 5:50 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I guess I just have to ask the Republicans one question: Why do y'all hate Lincoln so much?

I see. So you’re saying that under Obama we’ll end up in a 4-year civil war – the bloodiest, most destructive war in American history?

Hmmm. I’ll pass.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero



Hello,

According to at least one of the founding fathers, we are well overdue for another revolution.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 1:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA


"The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it’s motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure."

Jefferson, on 11-13-1787, in a letter to William Stephens Smith, as a matter of fact.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 7:08 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

I see. So you’re saying that under Obama we’ll end up in a 4-year civil war – the bloodiest, most destructive war in American history?




[sarcastic face "ON"]

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm saying.

Just like you're saying that under McCain we'll end up in yet another endless war in the mideast, when he makes good on his promise to "bomb bomb bomb Iran". And we'll end up invading Pakistan, when he makes good on his promise to follow Bin Laden to the gates of hell.

Not that he'd ever actually keep any of his promises, of course. (Just ask his first wife!)

And in truth, another Civil War might do us a lot of good; the nation came out stronger and better for it after the last one. And we ARE well past due for it.

[sarcastic face "OFF"]




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 7:12 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Frem, you know under our current laws (things like the "Patriot" Act, which is a fucking cruel name to give to something so insidious and seditious), Jefferson is a terrorist. He'd be rendered and shipped off to Gitmo for torture - er, I mean "re-education" - and every word he ever wrote or uttered would be redacted in the name of our "freedoms".

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 9, 2008 11:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Shit Mikey, no bones about it, many of our founding fathers and builders of this country WERE terrorists, and right damn good at it too!

We wanted the fucking british out, and we gave em what the Iraqis are givin us, every chance we could - and I ain't talkin continental army, I am talkin straight up, downright guerillas.

Like Francis Marion, whom the british despised so badly they set that evil little fuck Tarleton on him, or the Over The Mountain Men, who for no particular reason other than the british were pissin em off, decided to kick them the hell offa Kings Mountain and right back into the atlantic, but destroyed them so utterly there wasn't any need to chase em no more.

That battle proved that ordinary citizens, the militia, if you wanna put it so...
If comparably armed, can stand to and kick the shit out of regular army folk when they mean to do so.

And THAT, is part and parcel of why the second amendment is written that way and so important, Madison went on at length about how since the population was armed AS WELL OR BETTER THAN, any standing army that could be raised, no one could force their will upon the people, so long as that were true.

And the moment it wasn't, was when things started goin south, you might have noticed, if you know your history well enough.

Not all of our founding fathers were decent men though, or even honest - look at Adams and the Alien and Sedition acts, what you might call the prototype for the Patriot Act....

And hell, there was Lincoln, a monster every bit as vile as Stalin, Lenin, or Adolph, only he won by burying his foes in the bodies of his own, till they just ran out of men down there, sad fact that it is, and decades of bullshit to cover up the crimes is only even NOW finally coming unravelled.

There have ALWAYS been these people within our Government, and probably always will be till we evolve ourselves socially, mentally and emotionally enough to stop producing them.

Thing is, without cowardly little shits collaborating and enabling them, they're just one more loudmouth pissant, no threat to anyone but themselves.

Which is why I take an awful dim fucking view of folk who unthinkingly and fearfully support this shit... without the compliance of collaborators, informants, and those willing to fuck over their fellow man for folks who secretly hold them in contempt, a police state lacks the necessary human "machinery" to make it function.

Look how prohibition died ?

No one obeyed it, rats were despised instead of selling tell-all books on Oprah, cops looked the other way, juries refused to convict - in short, nobody played ball, yes ?

Sure, some did, but not enough to matter.

All we have to do is not cooperate, but frankly, the american population is a buncha meekly compliant cowards who've been trained that way, kept that way, by a social system fully designed to produce that exact end result.

And THAT, Mikey, is why I assault it every chance I get, from any angle I can - but it ain't gonna be enough.

Whether the rest of em get pissed enough to throw off the chains, or bow their head and yessa massa some more, will determine the fate of us all.

And my only consolation to it is gettin to watch THEM sink first, all the while protesting what good (suckers) servants they have been to the powers that be as they go swirling down the drain.

Cause they done tied that boat anchors chain around MY ankles too.

I got a pretty good idea how things are gonna go, regardless of who wins, and that's why I look at my fellow humans with bitterness and animosity.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, March 28, 2024 02:07 - 3408 posts
Russian losses in Ukraine
Wed, March 27, 2024 23:21 - 987 posts
Elections; 2024
Wed, March 27, 2024 22:19 - 2069 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Wed, March 27, 2024 15:03 - 824 posts
NBC News: Behind the scenes, Biden has grown angry and anxious about re-election effort
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:58 - 2 posts
BUILD BACK BETTER!
Wed, March 27, 2024 14:45 - 5 posts
RFK Jr. Destroys His Candidacy With VP Pick?
Wed, March 27, 2024 11:59 - 16 posts
Russia says 60 dead, 145 injured in concert hall raid; Islamic State group claims responsibility
Wed, March 27, 2024 10:57 - 49 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Wed, March 27, 2024 07:58 - 6153 posts
Ha. Haha! HAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!!
Tue, March 26, 2024 21:26 - 1 posts
You can't take the sky from me, a tribute to Firefly
Tue, March 26, 2024 16:26 - 293 posts
Tucker Carlson
Tue, March 26, 2024 16:24 - 132 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL