REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

If you like Bush & what he's done to this world, you are evil.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 09:38
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 20801
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Friday, June 13, 2008 6:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Drug lies

www.pensitoreview.com/2008/05/28/mcclellan-first-noticed-bush-lies-in-
1999-cocaine-flap
/

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 6:27 AM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Drug lies

www.pensitoreview.com/2008/05/28/mcclellan-first-noticed-bush-lies-in-
1999-cocaine-flap
/

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.



Also military (dis)service lies.

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Friday, June 13, 2008 7:02 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just keep tellin' yourself that...

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!



You know what I'd like ? I'd like for YOU or anyone to given an example of ONE lie which Bush told that took us to war w/ Iraq.

JUST ONE !! So far, in 5 + yrs, no one seems to have remembered a single one. I find that curious, don't you ?
Weapons of Mass Destruction are in Iraq, except they aren't.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 9:37 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Weapons of Mass Destruction are in Iraq, except they aren't.


But Cit- that wasn't a lie, it was an inconclusive leap to known possible concrete shifting relevant theoretical substantial factual manufactured relayed data.
Duh.

Excusive Chrisisall

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Friday, June 13, 2008 10:43 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
There's really no discussion;


Oh, well thats always been the liberal position. No discussion, no free speech, no 'agree to disagree'. Here I am, the evil conservative who thinks Bush is pretty good but willing to engage in spirited debate on any subject...and there you are warming up the ovens to dispose of those you consider less then human (aka anyone who thinks differently then you).
Quote:


if you support lies, torture & war profiteering, then you are in Congress with the Beast.


I note for the record that the Democrats control Congress. I also note that Nancy Pelosi may be the devil. So your point is well taken.
Quote:


You are evil by mis-interpreting reality, or by embracing greed by way of death.


This statement makes no sense. Perhaps we should discuss it...
Quote:


There's really no discussion


...

H

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Friday, June 13, 2008 11:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:



Oh, well thats always been the liberal position. No discussion, no free speech, no 'agree to disagree'. Here I am, the evil conservative who thinks Bush is pretty good but willing to engage in spirited debate on any subject...and there you are warming up the ovens to dispose of those you consider less then human (aka anyone who thinks differently then you).




In another post, Hero wrote:

Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:

Michael Reagan wants to shoot Pirate News.


Then Michael Reagan is making good sense.

H



So, in your own words, you're just fine with conservatives killing other Americans who don't think like them.





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, June 13, 2008 11:14 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Here I am, the evil conservative who thinks Bush is pretty good

Exactly.
See, if I support lowering taxes, I might or might not have an argument for it.
If I support McCain as opposed to Obama, I might or might not have an argument for it.
If I support Bush, then I'm supporting what he stands for, and that is not a debatable wright or wrong, it is objectively evil...from Vet maltreatment to torture, he is an instrument of the most low. And to agree with that makes you less humane. So evil Conservative, come back when you become a good one by removing the GO BUSH! bumpersticker from your otherwise nice ride.
Quote:


I note for the record that the Democrats control Congress. I also note that Nancy Pelosi may be the devil. So your point is well taken.

I don't disagree with any particular point here.

"You are evil by mis-interpreting reality, or by embracing greed by way of death."
Quote:


This statement makes no sense.

Sorry....here:
"You are evil by intentionally mis-interpreting the reality of the politics involved with adventurism, or by embracing greed by way of approving of the needless deaths in this highly profitable war."

Thereyagoisall

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Friday, June 13, 2008 11:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

...and there you are warming up the ovens to dispose of those you consider less then human (aka anyone who thinks differently then you).



Talk about a statement that makes no sense...

You consider us less WHEN human? For the record, and because you make this mistake every single time you try to use the word, "then" denotes a measure of time. When are we going? We're going THEN. "Than" represents a measure of comparison: "I'd rather be a hammer THAN a nail."

So you might consider us less THAN human, but it would be hard to consider us less THEN human, without a timeframe offered in contrast. If THEN, then when?

Sorry, but that one bugs me, and I see it all too often online. Then & than... there, their, and they're... your and you're (and possibly yore)...

We can do better than that. Just because your President doesn't speak gooder, means you do. ;)

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, June 13, 2008 12:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Rapo, the problem is that you have no interest at all as to whether Bush lied about anything. (In point of fact, he lied about a LOT of things, including the cost of the Medicare Drug program.) The reason WHY you don't care is because, in your humble opinion, whether Bush lied or not he did the most important thing right: He recognized and militarily attacked jihadism. That fact ALONE is enough to justify anything else that Bush may or may not have done.

Correct?

So, the real discussion isn't whether "Bush lied", the REAL discusison is whether we (personally, our nation, and our culture) is in mortal danger from jihadism, and secondarily whether invading Iraq was a signficant positive step in winning the war against terrorism.

-------------------
Quote:

Again, what of the UNDECLARED stockpiles ?
Well, what about OUR undeclared stockpiles, eh???

What's that?

You mean you didn't know we had them???

Well, of course not! But I'm telling you, if we don't prove that we don't have them we're gonna be in BIG TROUBLE. 'Cause we signed all kinds of treaties about that! SO now we have to prove that we DON'T HAVE UNDECLARED STOCKPILES!



---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 1:43 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Signym.

So, you consider these statements lies?

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next 5 years. He could have if earlier if he is able to obtain fissile materials in the outside market, which is possible - difficult but possible. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress that Saddam Hussein has been able to make in the development of weapons of mass destruction."

"Saddam's existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose real threats to America today, tomorrow. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq's enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East. He could make these weapons available to many terrorist groups, third parties, which have contact with his government. These groups, in turn, could bring these weapons into the United States and unleas a devastating attack against our citizens. I fear that greatly."




"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, June 13, 2008 2:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Khyron:
Heck, I'll humour you, AURaptor.

President Bush and Secretary Powell repeatedly claimed they had evidence that Iraq attempted to buy 500 tons of uranium oxide from Niger, which can be used to make fuel for nuclear reactors.

Were they lying or weren't they? You decide!

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.



Swing and a miss. They never " repeatedly " claimed they had such evidence, but all Bush did was refer to what the BRITISH were saying, per THEIR intelligence. And the Brits, to this DAY , still say Iraq was seeking to buy Yellowcake from Niger, the exact same place they got it the 1st time Iraq tried to build a nuclear reactor, back in 1980.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Wrong Sig. All I'm concerned about is partisan zealots making claims about The President lying, but not being able to back up such wild, absurd and fictional claims.


It's really just that simple.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Swing and a miss. They never " repeatedly " claimed they had such evidence, but all Bush did was refer to what the BRITISH were saying, per THEIR intelligence.



So because the British intel was wrong - and it was pointed out REPEATEDLY to Bush that it was indeed wrong, by many sources in the US intel industry as well as others in intel agencies in other countries - you maintain that he didn't lie. He just said something that he knew was untrue, which is so completely different than lying...

I don't think it's a viable legal defense that you didn't commit the crime if you didn't know it was a crime when you committed it. You seem to be saying that if he didn't know it was a lie, then it wasn't a lie.

Also, Bush has publicly come out and said in recent weeks that global warming exists, and mankind has contributed to it. Now, given your long-standing stance that global warming is a lie, a myth, a left-wing conspiracy, and simply doesn't exist, I have to ask - is Bush lying, or are YOU?

That has nothing to do with the run-up to war, but you have stated repeatedly that "Bush never lied". Now you seem to want to parse your words and amend your earlier statements. So I ask for clarification: Did Bush EVER lie, about anything?



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Wrong Sig. All I'm concerned about is partisan zealots making claims about The President lying, but not being able to back up such wild, absurd and fictional claims.
First you said it was about Bush lying. Then you said it was limited to lying about Iraq. Now you seem to be generalizing the topic again. What's your point?


---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, June 13, 2008 3:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


Swing and a miss. They never " repeatedly " claimed they had such evidence, but all Bush did was refer to what the BRITISH were saying, per THEIR intelligence.



So because the British intel was wrong - and it was pointed out REPEATEDLY to Bush that it was indeed wrong, by many sources in the US intel industry as well as others in intel agencies in other countries - you maintain that he didn't lie. He just said something that he knew was untrue, which is so completely different than lying...



The intel wasn't wrong. US sources only said that THEIR intel couldn't confirm it, meaning that they COULD NOT CONFIRM IT! That doesn't mean ti was WRONG, moron. Get that through your thick skull. He DID NOT say anything which he knew was untrue. The Brits , TO THIS DAY still maintain their intel was right. And all Bush did was correctly state that the BRITISH say Saddam was trying to buy MORE YCU from Niger, the same place Iraq bought it the FIRST DAMN TIME.

Quote:



I don't think it's a viable legal defense that you didn't commit the crime if you didn't know it was a crime when you committed it. You seem to be saying that if he didn't know it was a lie, then it wasn't a lie.

Well, you got one thing right. If Bush didn't know it was a lie, then in fact he did NOT lie! Genius!

Quote:

Also, Bush has publicly come out and said in recent weeks that global warming exists, and mankind has contributed to it. Now, given your long-standing stance that global warming is a lie, a myth, a left-wing conspiracy, and simply doesn't exist, I have to ask - is Bush lying, or are YOU?

Different, irrelevant issue all together. Bush may BELIEVE global warming is valid, or he could be simply placating those who he thinks are worth placating , so he's giving them what they want to hear. Not all that rare for a politician, after all. I have no idea whether he KNOWS global warming is true or not, but I do know ONE thing.... that he's WRONG. Being WRONG does not necessarily make one a liar, now does it ?

Quote:



That has nothing to do with the run-up to war, but you have stated repeatedly that "Bush never lied". Now you seem to want to parse your words and amend your earlier statements. So I ask for clarification: Did Bush EVER lie, about anything?

Mike




No, I'm not parsing my words here, you're just trying to play games here. The issue is the Iraqi war. That's all I talking about here in this thread.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 4:43 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The issue is the Iraqi war. That's all I talking about here in this thread.


No, all you're talking about in this thread is that YOU are right about YOUR assessment of Bush's ability to tell the truth and distinguish right from wrong. It's all about YOU, AU, and YOUR inability to admit being mistaken.

Turn down the ego a bit and look at reality, and again, since this is MY thread, that is an order young man. Don't make me send you to your room !!!!


PapaChrisisall

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Friday, June 13, 2008 5:22 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Be fun to play that " Tell me three things and make one of them a lie " game with Bush, wouldn't it....




Lets party like its 1939

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Friday, June 13, 2008 5:26 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Chrissy, if you could do me the favor of simply giving ONE lie Bush told that sent us to war w/ Iraq, I'd gladly say uncle.

Just one, please.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, June 13, 2008 7:40 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chrissy, if you could do me the favor of simply giving ONE lie Bush told that sent us to war w/ Iraq, I'd gladly say uncle.



It works even better if you put your fingers in your ears and shout "I can't hear you!" over and over...

There have been several examples of Bush's lies in this thread, and many, many more in others over the years. All you're saying is you don't believe them - and then telling your own lies by saying no one has provided instances of Bush's.

Seriously, all you're proving with this droning refrain is your infinite capacity for delusion.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, June 13, 2008 7:49 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:


Chrissy, if you could do me the favor of simply giving ONE lie Bush told that sent us to war w/ Iraq, I'd gladly say uncle.

Just one, please.



The thing is, you wouldn't say uncle. You'd attack the source and dismiss it as a left-wing attempt to lie about Bush. I've seen you do it over and over again.

What you're REALLY saying is that if someone can give you just one instance where Bush lied and it was confirmed by one of your "approved" news sources which are beholden to the far right (Fox News, NewsCorpse, et al), THEN you might accept it. Only you wouldn't, because you'd instantly brand any such news outlet or reporter as traitorous and worthy of being shot in the head.





Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Friday, June 13, 2008 8:09 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

Well, you got one thing right. If Bush didn't know it was a lie, then in fact he did NOT lie! Genius!



So if one doesn't know or believe that 9/11 wasn't a U.S. conspiracy, then saying it was an inside job would NOT be a lie! Genius!

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Friday, June 13, 2008 9:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

...but I do know ONE thing.... that he's WRONG. Being WRONG does not necessarily make one a liar, now does it ?



Well, in point of fact, yes. Claiming facts and knowledge that are wrong, and passing them along and repeating them as fact without credible evidence that they are indeed fact, and with credible evidence that they are indeed NOT fact, is LYING.

Quote:

The intel wasn't wrong. US sources only said that THEIR intel couldn't confirm it, meaning that they COULD NOT CONFIRM IT! He DID NOT say anything which he knew was untrue. The Brits , TO THIS DAY still maintain their intel was right.


The Brits still maintain their intel was correct. Wonderful.

Bush and his officials knew better, because they had been told - REPEATEDLY - that this was bad intel.

Quote:

Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought uranium from Africa despite the fact that the CIA expressed doubts about the credibility of this claim in two memos to the White House, including one addressed to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. CIA Director George Tenet also warned against using the claim in a telephone call to Ms. Rice's deputy. In addition, the statement fails to mention that State Department intelligence officials also concluded that this claim was "highly dubious."



Also, it should be noted that of the two mines where Saddam was allegedly buying his yellowcake, one was flooded at the time of the British "intel", and the other was under control of French authorities.

Quote:

Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"He said he wouldn't have chemical weapons, he's got them."
Source: Remarks by the President at Arkansas Welcome, White House (11/4/2002).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it professed certainty. According to CIA Director George Tenet, "it is important to underline the word estimate." In addition, the statement failed to acknowledge the Defense Intelligence Agency position that: "There is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons or where Iraq has -- or will -- establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities."



Quote:

Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought aluminum tubes for use in its nuclear weapons program, failing to mention that the government’s most experienced technical experts at the U.S. Department of Energy concluded that the tubes were "poorly suited" for this purpose.



Quote:

Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"If the Iraq regime is able to produce, buy, or steal an amount of highly enriched uranium a little larger than a single softball, it could have a nuclear weapon in less than one year."
Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).


Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it failed to provide the context that the U.S. intelligence community believed that Iraq probably would not be able to make a nuclear weapon until near the end of the decade.



Quote:

Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof - the smoking gun - that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."
Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it starkly evoked a threat of Iraq detonating a nuclear bomb when there was deep division in the intelligence community on the issue of whether Iraq was actively pursuing its nuclear program.



Quote:

Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"In defiance of the United Nations, Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons."
Source: President: Iraqi Regime Danger to America is "Grave and Growing", White House (10/5/2002).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it professed certainty. The statement failed to acknowledge the Defense Intelligence Agency position that: "There is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons."



Quote:

Public Statement of National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice:
"At the time that the State of the Union address was prepared, there were also other sources that said that they were, the Iraqis were seeking yellow cake, uranium oxide from Africa."
Source: This Week with George Stephanopolous, ABC (6/8/2003).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought uranium from Africa despite the fact that the CIA expressed doubts about the credibility of this claim in two memos to the White House, including one addressed to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. CIA Director George Tenet also warned against using the claim. In addition, the statement fails to mention that State Department intelligence officials also concluded that this claim was "highly dubious."



Source:

http://oversight.house.gov/IraqOnTheRecord/

ALL of these quotes, with the exception of Ms. Rice's, were from BEFORE the war.

I guess now you'll refuse to say uncle because I didn't provide "one single instance" but instead provided a shit-ton of them.

Bush lied.


Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, June 13, 2008 9:51 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And the lies from the Bush Administration just keep coming...

This time, we're being lied to about IRAN. Imagine that... An administration lying to try to promote a war...


Quote:

Arming our own enemies in Iraq
Submitted by davidswanson on Fri, 2008-06-06 02:55.
Bush officials claim that Iran has supplied grenade launchers to Iraqi militants -- but the real source of the weapons is U.S. negligence.
By Gareth Porter, Salon

June 6, 2008 | In recent months, Gen. David Petraeus charged that Iran has supplied powerful rocket-propelled grenade launchers to Shiite militias in Iraq. But according to the U.S. government's own reports, there is no evidence to support that charge. In fact, the vast majority of RPGs in the hands of Shiite militants have come from either U.S.-purchased weapons intended for Iraq's new security forces, or from Saddam Hussein's old stockpiles, which the U.S. failed to secure when it took control of the country.

The Bush administration has long sought to create the impression that Iran has been playing a major military role in Iraq by supplying arms to Shiite militias, including the cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's powerful Mahdi army. But to date, U.S. military officials have offered scant or even dubious evidence of Iranian military involvement in Iraq -- and Petraeus' allegation about the RPGs is a clear-cut case of unsubstantiated charges.

Last October, and again in late December, Petraeus stated emphatically there was "absolutely no question" that Iran provided RPG-29s, a sophisticated anti-tank weapon, to Iraqi Shiite militiamen. He even called the RPG-29 an Iranian "signature weapon."

What Petraeus failed to mention, however, is that RPG-29s are manufactured by Russia, not Iran, and those that have shown up in Iraq apparently came from Syria. The Syrian government bought large numbers of RPG-29s from Russia in 1999 and 2000, many of which ended up being used by Hezbollah in the war against Israel in 2006, according to Israeli and Lebanese media reports. Even some U.S. military officials were quoted in the media in May 2006 as saying that they believed RPG-29s had been smuggled into Iraq from Syria.

Moreover, as Air Force Col. Scott Maw of the Multi-National Force Iraq (MNF-I) Strategic Communications Office told me in a telephone interview last week, "very few" RPG-29s have actually been found in Iraq. An examination of U.S. military press releases on weapons caches found in Shiite areas reveals no mention of RPG-29s. Additionally, the U.S. military has never displayed a captured one to reporters.
In a highly publicized February 2007 slide show, U.S. military briefers did include a picture of what was identified as a round to be fired by an Iranian-made RPG-7AT-1 launcher, a less advanced weapon than the RPG-29, although it did not depict the launcher itself. But the U.S. military has found no evidence of an Iranian pipeline of RPG-7s to Iraqi Shiite militants, either.

In more than two dozen MNF-I news releases on Iraqi Shiite weapons since early 2007, more than 200 RPGs are listed. Not a single one was identified as Iranian-made. That was not because of a lack of effort by the U.S. military, however, to determine whether captured weapons were of Iranian origin. Lt. Col. Steve Stover, the spokesman for the 4th Infantry Division, which is deployed in and around Baghdad, confirmed that explosives experts examine the findings at each cache site to determine the origin of the weapons. "Normally we say whether they are Iranian-manufactured or not," Stover said in a telephone interview.

Col. Maw said that the number of these weapons found in militants' possession is rising rapidly -- now more than 400 -- due to many discoveries being made by Iraqi Security Forces in recent months. "Very few of them are of recent manufacture," he said, suggesting that they came from Saddam Hussein's old stockpiles.

The U.S. command is so eager to highlight any weapons that can be linked to Iran that one MNF-I press release from last September singled out the discovery of four Iranian hand grenades. But that find hardly supported the Iranian-weapons narrative, because the grenades were found in an area frequented by Sunni militants associated with al-Qaida. (There is no reason to believe that Iran would arm extremist Sunni fighters, who consider both Iran and the Shiites as their arch enemies.)

In the early stages of the war, when the Bush administration was being criticized for its failure to prevent the looting of the Saddam Hussein regime's arms depots, Bush officials downplayed the importance of the weapons that disappeared. In October 2004, an unnamed senior administration official was quoted by CNN as saying that the weapons were "stuff you can buy anywhere."

Among the pilfered Iraqi weapons were thousands of RPG-7s, which soon turned up on Iraq's thriving black market. Malcolm Nance, an Arabic-speaking 20-year veteran of military and civilian U.S. intelligence, recalls being offered more than 20 RPG-7 rocket launchers and dozens of RPG rounds in a single trip to an arms bazaar in Sadr City in September 2003. According to Nance, RPG-7s were also on sale in black markets at another location in Baghdad and in at least seven other Iraqi cities.

In a telephone interview, Nance, who is now a counterterrorism consultant to Homeland Security and the Army's Special Operations Command, among other government agencies, recalled that the Iraqi RPG-7s were "so ubiquitous" that they were selling for a mere $50 each for the launcher and $5 each for an RPG missile.
Sunni fighters got large numbers of Saddam's RPG-7 stocks, as discovered by U.S. troops who were frequently attacked by them in the early stages of the insurgency. But the Mahdi army has also been able to purchase them easily over the past four years.

Equally troubling is the near certainty that Soviet-made RPGs purchased by the Pentagon in 2004 and turned over to Iraq's Ministry of Interior have fallen into the hands of the Mahdi army. Beginning in 2004, the Pentagon sent at least 7,500 Soviet-made RPG-7s and 4,500 Soviet-made under-barrel grenade launchers to Baghdad to be distributed to Iraqi Security Forces, along with hundreds of thousands of sidearms, according to a September 2007 report by the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction. U.S. authorities hired civilian contractors to distribute the U.S.-purchased weapons, but had no system to account for them once they left U.S.-controlled warehouses in Iraq. As the New York Times reported last November, the Iraqi businessman contracted to distribute Pentagon-funded weapons from one depot was widely known to be stealing them from the warehouse by the truckload.

Only 499 of the 2,389 Soviet-made RPGs that were provided to the new Iraqi security forces could actually be accounted for through serial numbers, according to a report by the Defense Department Inspector General's Office in November -- and that was because they were still in the warehouse. No one knows how many of the other 1,900 RPGs entered the Iraqi arms market. Inspector General Claude Kicklighter told the Senate Appropriations Committee in March that there is an ongoing investigation into "pilferage of storage facilities" for the arms in Baghdad.

According to Col. Maw, MNF-I makes no effort to determine which, if any, of the Soviet-made RPGs came from the U.S.-financed weapons stocks. The munitions specialists responsible for assessing the weapons on site are unaware of the U.S.-financed RPGs from 2004, he said, so they would have no way of distinguishing them from other Soviet-made RPGs.

The Mahdi army had abundant opportunities to gain access to the U.S.-supplied weapons. During 2005 and 2006, the Shiite militants successfully infiltrated the Iraqi police as well as parts of the Iraqi military and government. The police in Sadr City were effectively controlled by the Mahdi army, and the militants had also penetrated several Iraqi army units stationed there. In Basra, the Mahdi army was part of a consortium of Shiite militias that used their control over a key police office to get access to various kinds of weapons.

The military official responsible for the decision to rush ahead with massive arms transfers to the Iraqi Security Forces in 2004 and 2005 -- despite the absence of a dependable tracking system and the wide reach of the Shiite militias -- was the man in charge of training and equipping those Iraqi forces: Gen. David Petraeus.



Nah... They'd NEVER lie just to get support for a war...




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Friday, June 13, 2008 10:45 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The Brits still maintain their intel was correct. Wonderful.

MI6 was livid the way the dossier was changed, most of the 'evidence' Bush used to legitimise war in Iraq didn't come from British Intelligence, it came from the Intelligence Dossier on Iraq, most of which came from some where other than British intelligence. Google Dr David Kelly, or the Hutton Report for more of that controversy. British Intelligence doesn't stand by the Dossier, they didn't stand by it even before the invasion of Iraq, and it's pretty much accepted here that it was a load of bollocks, so where the accusation that the 'Brits still maintain their intel was correct' comes from eludes me. Unless they mean the intelligence gathered by MI6, which may be correct, but wasn't used to justify the Iraq war. Smells of smoke and mirrors to me.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chrissy, if you could do me the favor of simply giving ONE lie Bush told that sent us to war w/ Iraq, I'd gladly say uncle.



It works even better if you put your fingers in your ears and shout "I can't hear you!" over and over...

There have been several examples of Bush's lies in this thread, and many, many more in others over the years. All you're saying is you don't believe them - and then telling your own lies by saying no one has provided instances of Bush's.

Seriously, all you're proving with this droning refrain is your infinite capacity for delusion.

SergeantX




Point of fact, there have been no examples of Bush lying us into war, just twisted , distorted snippets which feverish anarchist types use to belittle the President.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Mike, all these quotes you claim are " misleading " are nothing more than OPINION !! These aren't FACTS. If the President is told by his CIA director that the case against Saddam and WMD is a " slam dunk ", wtf is the President suppose to do ? Tell the American public that his top intelligence man said one thing, but I'm just not too certain there's anything to worry about here. Even though every single Democrat leader has been saying Saddam has WMD and we must not allow him to use them again, , even though there were 17 U.N. Resolutions against Iraq , even though there were agreements from the 1st Gulf War which were broken, even though there were missing WMD materials - catalogued by the UNITED NATIONS THEMSELVES, even though all this was going on and a HELL of a lot more that's not even been reported,..... you STILL want to take the position that.....meh, there's nothing to all these things. Maybe we should roll over and go back to sleep? ( Like we did for the previous 8 yrs ??? ) Sorry, but the one legitimate thing Bush has done in his terms in office is to protect the United States, its interest and the interest of many other countries.


Them's the facts, whether you want to accept them or not.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:22 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
There's really no discussion; if you support lies, torture & war profiteering, then you are in Congress with the Beast. You are evil by mis-interpreting reality, or by embracing greed by way of death.

May God have mercy, 'cause Bush won't.


Biped Planetisall


Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys. You're like those race baiting poverty pimps who think they have the power to decide who's black and who is not. For example, they say Justice Thomas is'nt black because he's a conservitive. If that empty suited puppet Obama gets elected and things get worse, will you call him evil or make excuses for him. Also, the Demonrats now control the house and senate, they said in 2006 they'd do something to lower gas prices. THEY LIED!!!!

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:46 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys.

Did you? Or is you're point that you can't take a joke?



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 5:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:

Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys. You're like those race baiting poverty pimps who think they have the power to decide who's black and who is not. For example, they say Justice Thomas is'nt black because he's a conservitive. If that empty suited puppet Obama gets elected and things get worse, will you call him evil or make excuses for him. Also, the Demonrats now control the house and senate, they said in 2006 they'd do something to lower gas prices. THEY LIED!!!!



Where to begin...?

You're sure during WWII most Germans thought they were the good guys, huh? Guess what - when Bush launched this illegal, immoral, and unjust war, most Americans thought they were the good guys, too. So YOU are saying that America is no better than Nazi Germany! If they thought they were the good guys, did that make it so? Were they in fact good, or were they evil?

"Poverty pimps" - You mean like the conservative talk-radio hosts who refer to Obama as a "Halfrican-American"? Those race-baiters? The ones who also get to decide who's a Muslim? I honestly don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that Justice Clarence Thomas "isn't black". I *have* heard people say that he doesn't represent black interests, but those people are dolts who don't realize that Thomas wasn't appointed to the Black Supreme Court, but rather to the United States Supreme Court, which represents ALL of the American people, not just the white or black ones.

If Obama gets elected and things get worse... Define "worse". If he launches a war based on lies and misrepresentation, if he uses ruses like "security" and fear to try to strip away Constitutional protections, if he tries to replace public education with state-sponsored faith-based religious indoctrination, then yes, I'll call him evil. If he tries to expand the use of torture on American soil, then yes, I'll call him evil.

Will I make excuses for him? You mean excuses like, "but the President doesn't have any say over the economy" or "but he never lied, because he's the President" or "we don't torture because the President said so"? Those kinds of excuses? I'll leave those to you and your kind.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 5:51 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:

Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys. You're like those race baiting poverty pimps who think they have the power to decide who's black and who is not. For example, they say Justice Thomas is'nt black because he's a conservitive. If that empty suited puppet Obama gets elected and things get worse, will you call him evil or make excuses for him. Also, the Demonrats now control the house and senate, they said in 2006 they'd do something to lower gas prices. THEY LIED!!!!



Where to begin...?

You're sure during WWII most Germans thought they were the good guys, huh? Guess what - when Bush launched this illegal, immoral, and unjust war, most Americans thought they were the good guys, too. So YOU are saying that America is no better than Nazi Germany! If they thought they were the good guys, did that make it so? Were they in fact good, or were they evil?

"Poverty pimps" - You mean like the conservative talk-radio hosts who refer to Obama as a "Halfrican-American"? Those race-baiters? The ones who also get to decide who's a Muslim? I honestly don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that Justice Clarence Thomas "isn't black". I *have* heard people say that he doesn't represent black interests, but those people are dolts who don't realize that Thomas wasn't appointed to the Black Supreme Court, but rather to the United States Supreme Court, which represents ALL of the American people, not just the white or black ones.

If Obama gets elected and things get worse... Define "worse". If he launches a war based on lies and misrepresentation, if he uses ruses like "security" and fear to try to strip away Constitutional protections, if he tries to replace public education with state-sponsored faith-based religious indoctrination, then yes, I'll call him evil. If he tries to expand the use of torture on American soil, then yes, I'll call him evil.

Will I make excuses for him? You mean excuses like, "but the President doesn't have any say over the economy" or "but he never lied, because he's the President" or "we don't torture because the President said so"? Those kinds of excuses? I'll leave those to you and your kind.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

This country is made up of my kind, your kind and every kind, my point was simply were do you get the rite to call me call me and my kind evil? When you think about it you are prejudgeing me, we've never met so that makes you and your kind "BIGOTS" You think I'm evil becase I do'nt agree with you?

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:09 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
were do you get the rite to call me call me and my kind evil?

You support Charles Manson and you support murder- evil.
You support Saddam Hussien and you support genocide- evil.
You support Bush and you support feeding the men & women of our armed forces into a meat-grinder, and having the wounded come back to intentionally sub-standard care- evil.

It's a no-brainer Whozit...you just don't support those that trade death for profit & power.

Try not to be so evil in future, okay?


Judge Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:25 AM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys. You're like those race baiting poverty pimps who think they have the power to decide who's black and who is not.


That was sort of the point, whozit. If any thing is truly evil, it's chrisisall's demented sense of humor.



SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:29 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


Them's the facts, whether you want to accept them or not.


AU, you've not followed my commands....

So, you are right. Bush tells no lies, just inconclusive leaps to known possible concrete shifting relevant theoretical substantial factual manufactured relayed data.

See, if Clinton was your boy like Bush is, you'd say he didn't actually lie about his sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky, because a blowjob is mere oral stimulation, not actual sexual union.

I'm THIS CLOSE to banning you from this thread, my friend, due your gleeful embrace of evil here.....you vex me to no end!!!
Don't be surprised if you get a burn notice soon!



The angry green Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:32 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
were do you get the rite to call me call me and my kind evil?

You support Charles Manson and you support murder- evil.
You support Saddam Hussien and you support genocide- evil.
You support Bush and you support feeding the men & women of our armed forces into a meat-grinder, and having the wounded come back to intentionally sub-standard care- evil.

It's a no-brainer Whozit...you just don't support those that trade death for profit & power.

Try not to be so evil in future, okay?


Judge Chrisisall

Intentional sub standard care? Comparing Bush to Hussian? Does Bush have "rape rooms", does he want all the Jews dead? The filthy lies you and your kind spread make you the evil ones........and nutz!

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:33 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
If that empty suited puppet Obama gets elected and things get worse, will you call him evil

Well, since he's a puppet, technically, the source of evil would be the hand....

Digital Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:39 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
If that empty suited puppet Obama gets elected and things get worse, will you call him evil

Well, since he's a puppet, technically, the source of evil would be the hand....

Digital Chrisisall

So you will make excuses for him.

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:40 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
The filthy lies you and your kind spread make you the evil ones........

So, 'cause Bush hasn't gotten AS MANY killed as Saddam has, he is not evil? Whozit, how many do you needlessly have to get killed before you're evil? A million? What's the exact numerical stance on evil? Is Manson a righteous dude? He never got NEARLY as many peeps dead as Saddam....

Ever see Omen III?

You evil biped.

Get behind me Satan, and dooooon't pushisall

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:41 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:

So you will make excuses for him.


Y'all believe this guy???

Not gettingisall

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:59 AM

WHOZIT


FDR sent troops to destroy Hitler, thousnds of troops died, in your eyes FDR as evil as Hitler? Bush did not intentionaly send wounded troops to rat infested care centers, that's a lie! So that makes you people liars! There for as the filthy liars that you are, this makes you the evil ones, because the evil lie! I bet you filthy liars also think Bush and Jews planed the 9/11 attacks, this makes Ya'll liars and NUTZ!!!

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:00 AM

RALLEM


The evil Democrats only have one stance on which they hope to election and that is on how to best lose this war we are fighting in Iraq. Well I suppose war isn't actually the right word because we already won that war, and what they really plan on failing is the rebuilding of Iraq. Many of you evil Democrats refuse to accept any evidence of the "Rebuilding of Iraq," except from the liberal News media, but let me give you a hint that the severe slow down of "Bad news" in the liberal media is a hint to you that we are winning this rebuilding of a nation.

Sure there have been many mistakes in this project we underwent, and hind sight 20/20 perhaps we should have ran Iraq much as we did in Japan and Germany. In Germany we faced the same terrors as we are facing in Iraq except in Germany the people there began turning on the Nazi Terrorists only after two years and in Iraq it took them five years to begin turning on those Insurgents.

What more can our soldiers do over there in Iraq to make it a more secure nation? Well not much, except hold on the line a while longer as Iraq gets its stuff together. What those people in Iraq need are items to help them live more normal lives which a government should be supplying such as reliable electricity, and medicines for their hospitals and these are not things which the Military can provide unless given the resources and the mission to do so. My suggestion to whoever is the next President of the United States of America is that we shouldn’t pull back our forces from Iraq before we have one more surge of troops, but the next surge of troops should be different than the last. I think in the next surge of troops we should send over to Iraq more Electricians and Supply Personnel with more Security Forces to protect those performing the missions to better the infrastructures id Iraq.

I do recall President Bush warning us all that this mission in Iraq would take a long time to complete and I also remember the American Populace rather enthusiastically agreeing to this mission, and if we back out now, not only will our Military become obsolete, but so will the will of the American citizen because we will be nothing more than the punks which Al Queda proclaims we are already.

I think after the debates between McCain and Obama and who ever they choose for their VP candidates that most Americans will opt for the more sensible approach of the Republican Candidate unless of course he being old somehow fouls up his deliverance of his stances on issues. Twice before the Democrats have sworn that the elections preceding this one was definitely theirs for the winning and twice before they lost to their shock. I think this time will be the third shocker for those Democrats.




http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:27 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

FDR sent troops to destroy Hitler, thousnds of troops died, in your eyes FDR as evil as Hitler? Bush did not intentionaly send wounded troops to rat infested care centers, that's a lie! So that makes you people liars! There for as the filthy liars that you are, this makes you the evil ones, because the evil lie! I bet you filthy liars also think Bush and Jews planed the 9/11 attacks, this makes Ya'll liars and NUTZ!!!
Am I supposed to laugh, or was this serious?


---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
You support Charles Manson and you support murder- evil.
You support Saddam Hussien and you support genocide- evil.
You support Bush and you support feeding the men & women of our armed forces into a meat-grinder, and having the wounded come back to intentionally sub-standard care- evil.




C'mon.... you know the words! Now sing along!!

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:


I'm THIS CLOSE to banning you from this thread, my friend, due your gleeful embrace of evil here.....you vex me to no end!!!
Don't be surprised if you get a burn notice soon!



The angry green Chrisisall




Throw in a Bruce Campbell character and a zesty Fiona clone, and I'm all for it !

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 10:14 AM

TOSABROWNCOAT






C'mon.... you know the words! Now sing along!!

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "


Know what, whether Bush lied or not, can we not all agree that too many people are dieing in this war- too many innocent people. That too many people are losing sons, daughters, husbands, fathers, wifes and mothers. Can we at least not all agree on that because honestly if you can't I think you truly are evil. Try sticking to less of the name calling we are not children but rather state the honest facts and show you opinion in the elections and vote.

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 10:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


TOSA - How many innocents died before the war ? I guess that number was ok, since it was out of sight, right ? We're hoping to change all that.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 10:53 AM

RALLEM


How can they be innocent if they are Muslim? Aren't all Muslims evil God haters?



http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:19 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

FDR sent troops to destroy Hitler, thousnds of troops died, in your eyes FDR as evil as Hitler? Bush did not intentionaly send wounded troops to rat infested care centers, that's a lie! So that makes you people liars! There for as the filthy liars that you are, this makes you the evil ones, because the evil lie! I bet you filthy liars also think Bush and Jews planed the 9/11 attacks, this makes Ya'll liars and NUTZ!!!
Am I supposed to laugh, or was this serious?


---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

Yes laugh, I give up, I'm evil and going to eat a baby.(Taste like chicken) People like me say "live", witch is why we're pro life, you say "evil", witch is why you think Bush and the Jews planned 9/11. I'd wather be evil than NUTZ!

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:09 PM

FLETCH2


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:


You seem to be saying that if he didn't know it was a lie, then it wasn't a lie.



Wait a second, that's true though. Say you miss the big ball game, you ring your brother and he tells you that Boston won when they lost. You then tell your friend Jerry that Boston won.

Did you just lie to Jerry? Or did you just pass along information that proves to be wrong?

To my mind being wrong and telling a lie hinges completely on if the person giving out the information knows it to be false otherwise it's just bad info.

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 4:42 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Throw in a Bruce Campbell character and a zesty Fiona clone, and I'm all for it !


That's it. Your flippant attitude has earned you this:
YOU ARE BANNED FROM THIS THREAD AURAPTOR!!!!
Your IP is being traced- one more post here will get your computer crashed & lobotomized.
I kill systems...when I have to.


Making better virtual worldsisall

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Saturday, June 14, 2008 4:45 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
thousnds
intentionaly


And YOU are BANNED, Whozit, for your irritating spelling!!!!

You wanna try again?? Huh? Do you feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?

Go ahead, make my dayisall

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