REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

how's that gonna work? again?

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Saturday, May 17, 2008 18:43
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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:19 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT





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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:21 AM

CITIZEN


Well, first you type words into the post, then you hit 'post'.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:27 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Well, first you type words into the post, then you hit 'post'.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:27 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


oops, hit one too many delete keys and it double posted.
Hillary sez:
"I want to give you a gas tax holiday this summer and I want the oil companies to pay the gas tax out of their record profits." Now you may have heard something about this on the news because it's controversial. My opponent, Sen. Obama, says, 'Oh no, that's just a gimmick, that's not going to help people.'
"Well, I gotta tell you, according to the Department of Energy, it will help you [save] $70 this summer, and if you're a truck driver or you commute long distances, it'll help you even more."
from CNN.
So folks should vote for her now, so she might be the nominee at the convention in August, and could get elected in November, and get inaugurated in January, Next year, and then give us a gas tax holiday THIS SUMMER. Even if she could get it passed, and Bush signed it, and got the legislation on windfall profits passed, and THAT got signed, and it was a good idea, how's it gonna work? Retroactively? Time warp?
Oh, well, it oughtta be an easy promise to keep-- "I want to give you this." Sure she does. But there ain't no way she can, now or later.

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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:28 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


and thank you very much, Chris and Citizen

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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:40 AM

FLETCH2


Voodoo economics man. If she is elected in January she will use her awesome voodoo powers to make Bush and congress pass the tax break NOW.

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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 9:44 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
So folks should vote for her now, so she might be the nominee at the convention in August, and could get elected in November, and get inaugurated in January, Next year, and then give us a gas tax holiday THIS SUMMER.

You know, all three top candidates ARE US Senators--now. They could conceivably push through legislation that would go into effect in a month or two.

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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:07 AM

SERGEANTX


If they really wanted to help, they'd just send each of a check for ten grand. That'd get the economy going in a hurry!


SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, May 13, 2008 12:49 PM

WHODIED


Quote:

Originally posted by Fletch2:
Voodoo economics man. If she is elected in January she will use her awesome voodoo powers to make Bush and congress pass the tax break NOW.



Plus, she'll have a cheesy goatee and be able to play guitar.

WYLD STALLYNS!



--WhoDied


_______________________

OK wait. If you guys are really us, what number are we thinking of?



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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The problem is, there are no ' windfall' profits. It's an political term, and doesn't apply in the real business world. And it certainly doesn't apply to the Oil companies, who have no more than 10% profit margin. When oil is $40-50 a barrel, no way in hell they'd make record profits. But when it shoots up to $ 120+ a barrel, then yeah, they'll make more $$.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 1:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
oops, hit one too many delete keys and it double posted.
Hillary sez:
"I want to give you a gas tax holiday this summer and I want the oil companies to pay the gas tax out of their record profits." Now you may have heard something about this on the news because it's controversial. My opponent, Sen. Obama, says, 'Oh no, that's just a gimmick, that's not going to help people.'
"Well, I gotta tell you, according to the Department of Energy, it will help you [save] $70 this summer, and if you're a truck driver or you commute long distances, it'll help you even more."
from CNN.
So folks should vote for her now, so she might be the nominee at the convention in August, and could get elected in November, and get inaugurated in January, Next year, and then give us a gas tax holiday THIS SUMMER. Even if she could get it passed, and Bush signed it, and got the legislation on windfall profits passed, and THAT got signed, and it was a good idea, how's it gonna work? Retroactively? Time warp?
Oh, well, it oughtta be an easy promise to keep-- "I want to give you this." Sure she does. But there ain't no way she can, now or later.



I note for the record that McCain has made essentially the same proposal, along the lines of "If you vote for me in November, and I'm inaugurated in January, I'll do away with the gas tax this summer!"




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 1:26 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoDied:


WYLD STALLYNS!




NO WAY!!!

Tedisall

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:07 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
But when it shoots up to $ 120+ a barrel, then yeah, they'll make more $$.



That is where the price is, skippy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh my god, Rap. Are you playing with numbers again? Haven't you learned that can be dangerous, especially if you haven't the faintest clue what you're doing with 'em?

Stick to politics and military strategy, that's more your aren...

On second thought, nevermind.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:13 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"But when it shoots up to $ 120+ a barrel, then yeah, they'll make more $$."

Expecially because they buy crude on long-term contracts for much less than $ 120+ a barrel, and the only country paying the spot price is China.


***************************************************************
The Chinese made me do it !

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:25 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Hillary sez:
"I want to give you a gas tax holiday this summer and I want the oil companies to pay the gas tax out of their record profits."

Yeah, this will guarantee higher gas prices.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:34 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Finn, does 1 + 1 = 2 in your world ? Just curious.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 5:09 PM

SERGEANTX


The main thing is to make sure people keep buying gasoline.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:51 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh my god, Rap. Are you playing with numbers again? Haven't you learned that can be dangerous, especially if you haven't the faintest clue what you're doing with 'em?

Stick to politics and military strategy, that's more your aren...

On second thought, nevermind.

---------------------------------



Either say something of substance or don't post at all. Nothing in your post refutes what I said. Hearing after hearing after mindless, wastes of time hearing have been held up on the Hill, and the one constant is that we learn , again, the oil companies maintain their business by working w/ a 10% profit margin.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:26 AM

CITIZEN


A 10% profit margin is pretty high, depending on what you mean by 'profit margin'.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:18 AM

JONGSSTRAW


The big oil companies in America are vile. They are making more money than the GDP's of most nations. Their execs are getting mega-millions while all of us peons are getting screwed. Multiple billions of profit.....Why? for what? They're not building refineries, they're not opening new drilling, they're certainly not doing anything except getting fat & rich. I think they're all in cahoots with scumbag commodity traders with the goal of gouging & squeezing every last dollar they can from Americans before one day when they have no product to sell.

The thing that really pisses me off about all this the utter lack of leadership or concern of the Bush Administration. He has just sat by and done nothing all these months, actually years, since gas started climbing from 1.50 to 4.00 a gallon. Lots of things a caring and daring President could have done..lots!!! ....
Pressure OPEC
Pressure Saudi Arabia
Sign Exec Order to allow drilling in Alaska
Sign Exec Order to allow drilling in the Gulf
Develop energy policy for future with coal, bio fuels, hydrogen, etc.
Open up US strategic reserve
But no....they do nothing.
This President & this Congress are the absolute worst in 100 years..bunch of whiny-ass political fucks who only give a shit about posturing and image and fighting their political opponents. Meanwhile, the oil crisis spills over into all other businesses and transportation of goods...and it's all falling apart out there in the business world. No one even knows what to charge for goods from day to day, because they can't predict how much & when they're gonna get all their goods increased...out of control spiraling inflation is what we have. The message is clear : We're all on our own. Life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness?...pretty tough these days.

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Friday, May 16, 2008 10:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

No one even knows what to charge for goods from day to day, because they can't predict how much & when they're gonna get all their goods increased...out of control spiraling inflation is what we have...


Yuppers. We'd negotiated our shipping a while back, working at around 15 cents a unit (and that was on the high end of our shipping at the time). Problem is, we set our price to cover the shipping, and we signed contracts with our biggest customers, part of which is that we pay shipping on their orders (they're required to order a minimum of $2500 worth of product per location).

So earlier this week, I shipped out 20 skids of goods to one customer. Only problem is, even with consolidated shipments, our cost is now $0.37 per unit - more than double what it was just six months ago! In a business environment where profit margins are - if you're lucky and very, very good - maybe 5%, doubling the transportation costs makes it even harder to stay in business. And the real bitch of it is, we're getting those costs doubling from both ends - it's costing us more to bring the stuff in, too, not just to ship it out!

My UPS software updates its fuel surcharge at least twice a week now, too. From one day to the next, I can only guess at what shipping is going to cost, and that's not a good feeling when your job is logistics...



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 16, 2008 2:04 PM

ALLIETHORN7


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
oops, hit one too many delete keys and it double posted.
Hillary sez:
"I want to give you a gas tax holiday this summer and I want the oil companies to pay the gas tax out of their record profits." Now you may have heard something about this on the news because it's controversial. My opponent, Sen. Obama, says, 'Oh no, that's just a gimmick, that's not going to help people.'
"Well, I gotta tell you, according to the Department of Energy, it will help you [save] $70 this summer, and if you're a truck driver or you commute long distances, it'll help you even more."
from CNN.
So folks should vote for her now, so she might be the nominee at the convention in August, and could get elected in November, and get inaugurated in January, Next year, and then give us a gas tax holiday THIS SUMMER. Even if she could get it passed, and Bush signed it, and got the legislation on windfall profits passed, and THAT got signed, and it was a good idea, how's it gonna work? Retroactively? Time warp?
Oh, well, it oughtta be an easy promise to keep-- "I want to give you this." Sure she does. But there ain't no way she can, now or later.



Yeah... it'd be really much better if she didn't this here promise- as all it would do is fuck us over even more. If she makes Big Oil pay more, they will- and they will get that money, by raising the prices of oil to match what it was. Then, when it gets to be past summer, when the law goes away, and the tax goes back,the price of gas will still be what it was during summer- plus, the cost of the tax we weren't paying.

-Danny

Late night, Brakes lock,
Hear the tires squeal,
Red light, can't stop, so I spin the wheel,
My world goes Black before I
Feel an Angel lift me up,
And I open Bloodshot eyes,
Into fluorescent White,
Flip the Siren, Hit the Lights,
Close the doors and I am Gone

The Band of the week is... Thrice

Gott weiß ich will kein Engel sein.
http://www.myspace.com/otherrandomdude

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Friday, May 16, 2008 2:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
A 10% profit margin is pretty high, depending on what you mean by 'profit margin'.

g



Actually, it's quite low, as profit margin is described below.

Most financial institutions, such as commercial banks, are routinely more profitable than Exxon Mobil was in its third quarter. For example, Exxon Mobil's gross margin of 9.8 cents of profit for every dollar of revenue pales in comparison to Citigroup Inc.'s 15.7 cents in 2004. By percentage of total revenue, banking is consistently the most profitable industry in America, followed closely by the drug industry.

Altria Group, the maker of Marlboro and other cigarettes, made 22 cents for every dollar of revenue in 2004, and pharmaceutical company Merck made 25.3 cents for every dollar of revenue in 2004.

By other measures, such as profit per employee, return on invested capital and free cash flow, Exxon Mobil is nowhere near a standout.





The profit margin is mostly used for internal comparison.
For example, a company produces a loaf of bread and sells it for 10 units of currency. It cost the company 6 units of currency to produce the bread and it also had to pay an additional 2 units of currency in tax.
That makes the company's net income 2 units of currency (10 - 6, before tax, then minus 2 for tax). Since its revenue is 10 units of currency, the profit margin would be (2 / 10) or 20%.


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 12:39 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, it's quite low, as profit margin is described below.

As I said, it depends on what you mean by profit margin. That's not the only meaning of the term, which is why it's best to clarify it as Gross Profit or Net etc.
Quote:

Most financial institutions, such as commercial banks, are routinely more profitable than Exxon Mobil was in its third quarter. For example, Exxon Mobil's gross margin of 9.8 cents of profit for every dollar of revenue pales in comparison to Citigroup Inc.'s 15.7 cents in 2004. By percentage of total revenue, banking is consistently the most profitable industry in America, followed closely by the drug industry.
I think people get upset when they see Exxon making Billions, and saying "price of Oil is up, so we're putting up our prices, oh and we just made 8Billion dollars this quarter, I'm going to buy a yacht, can we have our government subsidy now?"

Personally I think you're all crazy, your petrol is cheaper than just about anyone else's in the world, and it's going up less too. Ours went up by an average of 4p a litre in the last month, that's 30 cents per US gallon. The average price of a litre of petrol now is 112.6p per litre, with a maximum of 122.9p. On average that works out too about $8.34US per US gallon. While the average in the US is about $3.78, I find it hard to sympathise. In the US you've got it pretty good, you're living the sweet life.
Quote:



Doesn't the 'all industry' field indicate there's a lot of industries on a lower profit margin? Doesn't that mean that the Oil industry is 7th most profitable?
Quote:

The profit margin is mostly used for internal comparison.
For example, a company produces a loaf of bread and sells it for 10 units of currency. It cost the company 6 units of currency to produce the bread and it also had to pay an additional 2 units of currency in tax.
That makes the company's net income 2 units of currency (10 - 6, before tax, then minus 2 for tax). Since its revenue is 10 units of currency, the profit margin would be (2 / 10) or 20%.

Sounds like net profit, which is pointless for comparing across industries, which is why it's 'mostly used for internal comparison'.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 12:07 PM

REAVERMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Hillary sez:
"I want to give you a gas tax holiday this summer and I want the oil companies to pay the gas tax out of their record profits."

Yeah, this will guarantee higher gas prices.



Yep. Simple economics. You make it more expensive for the supplier, they pass those expenses right on to the consumer. We would be paying the equivalent of the gas tax anyway, just to the oil companies rather than the government.

----------------------------
"O' course, ya couldn't buy an invite with a diamond the size of a testicle, but luckily I got my hands on a couple." -Badger

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 12:13 PM

CHRISISALL


Which is why Hillary & McCain are full of felgercarb on this matter.

Chrisisall

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 2:09 PM

ERIC


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
On average that works out too about $8.34US per US gallon. While the average in the US is about $3.78, I find it hard to sympathise. In the US you've got it pretty good, you're living the sweet life.



True, but we also don't have any real public transportation system. The oil and auto industries have been colluding for a long time to engineer a culture that relegates buses and trains mostly to the handicapped, drug-addicted and chronically poor (recall the old jingle- "See the USA in your Chevrolet!"). For a "real 'merikan" a car is often the only choice. We once had a visiting German postdoc and when asked what the biggest difference was between here and there that's what he remarked on (I was expecting him to say Sie sind alle ganz Fettsacks! ).

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:43 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:



I note for the record that McCain has made essentially the same proposal, along the lines of "If you vote for me in November, and I'm inaugurated in January, I'll do away with the gas tax this summer!"



I didn't even want to mention that she was jumping onto his bandwagon.

" You should elect me President because then I'll steal any idea anybody else has, and claim it for my own. Unless it doesn't work, in which case , he thought of it, not me. Isn't that the kind of leadership America needs? "

The last analysis I saw, by respectable cynical economists, was that oil companies wouldn't pass along the reduction to to customers anyway, they'd just suck up more dollars.

Besides , McCain would need the same time warp, wouldn't he?

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